Greek Syriza-led government makes military deal with Israel that only US has made

Middle East
on 57 Comments

Greece’s Syriza-led government signed a “status of forces” accord with Israel on July 19. The Jerusalem Post explains that the agreement “offers legal defense to both militaries while training in the other’s country.”

That is to say, it is a pact in which Greece agrees to help the Israeli military—which has illegally militarily occupied and colonized Palestinian sovereign territory for almost five decades and which, practically bi-annually, demolishes infrastructure and massacres civilians and journalists (whom it deliberately targets when soldiers are “bored”) in Gaza.

Only one other country in the world has signed such an accord with Israel; that country is the US, which calls its uncritical support of Israel the “special relationship.”

“We very much appreciate your visit here during a difficult period for Greece,” Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon, former Chief of Staff of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and an aggressive war hawk, told his Greek counterpart Panos Kammenos at a meeting in the Israeli Defense Ministry. “This underlines the importance of relations between the countries,” Ya’alon added.

Kammenos defended the deal on “anti-terrorism” grounds. He insisted that the “Greek people are very close to the people in Israel.” Kammenos is not a member of the leftist Syriza party; rather, he is the leader of the right-wing anti-austerity party the Independent Greeks, which formed a coalition government with Syriza.

Critics note that Greece’s Syriza-led government first compromised its fundamental economic values, agreeing to a Troika-imposed crippling austerity deal that the IMF (which profits off of Greece’s odious debt) openly admitted would not work and that a prominent economics professor warned will make it simply “impossible” for Greece to pay off its large debts. The Syriza government made this decision in spite of the fact that almost two-thirds of the Greek population explicitly voted against austerity in an historic referendum in early July.

Now critics say the Syriza government has compromised its supposed support for the Palestinians, signing an agreement with the very military that occupies them—and not just any agreement, but an agreement that only the US, Israel’s closet ally, has signed.

Growing Relations

Is this move surprising? The answer to that question depends on whom one asks.

In January 2015, an op-ed in the Jerusalem Post claimed “the victory of Syriza in Greece is bad news for Israel.” The opposite has been shown to be the case.

Just after Greece’s January election, Greek ambassador to Israel Spyridon Lampridis presciently remarked “I can see only positive things in the future.”

To be clear, Syriza’s government is by no means the first Greek government to stand with the Israeli military. Professor Aristotle Tziampiris, the Director of the Center for International and European Affairs at the University of Piraeus, has written an entire book about The Emergence of Israeli-Greek Cooperation.

And it is crucial to note that not everyone in the Syriza party is happy with the government’s decisions to capitulate to an impossible-to-pay-off austerity and privatization package and to work closely with Israel’s military.

Greek-Israeli businessman Sabby Mionis pointed out in an interview with the Times of Israel that “Several members of Syriza, including some who are getting government positions, were even [aboard] the Flotilla in 2010.” Mionis was referring to the Gaza Freedom Flotilla, which sought to bring humanitarian aid and construction materials to the strip. Israel prevents such materials from entering with its siege on Gaza, which the UN has for years ruled is illegal. On 31 May 2010, the flotilla was attacked by the very same Israeli military with which Syriza is now signing an historic agreement. Nine human rights advocates were killed by Israeli forces in the attack.

Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has demonstrated, however, that his preferred method to deal with this left-wing dissent within his party is by kicking leftist members out of his government.

About Ben Norton

Ben is a journalist and writer based in New York City. His work has been featured in a variety of publications, and he is presently a politics staff writer at Salon. His website can be found at BenNorton.com. Follow him on Twitter at @BenjaminNorton.

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57 Responses

  1. lysias
    July 24, 2015, 11:56 am

    Is the Greek government being bribed somehow to make this deal? Does it stand to make a lot of money from sending Greek troops to Israel for “training”?>

    • JLewisDickerson
      July 24, 2015, 11:31 pm

      I think it has more to do with Turkey, Crete and the natural gas fields in the eastern Mediterranian.

      • JLewisDickerson
        July 25, 2015, 5:19 am

        P.S. CORRECTION: I think it has more to do with Turkey, Cyprus and the natural gas fields in the eastern Mediterranian. [I.E., I meant Cyprus instead of Crete!]

    • ziusudra
      July 25, 2015, 4:37 am

      Greetings,
      Surprise, surprise as to who shows up for din din.
      ziusudra
      PS Greece is so down, they’d have joined Memet II in his
      conquest of 1453AD!

  2. Keith
    July 24, 2015, 3:50 pm

    Mark my words, the complete capitulation of Syriza and the economic destruction of Greece has doomed the left in Greece and possibly all of Europe for the forseeable future. The disgruntled Greeks will likely turn towards Golden Dawn as fascism returns to Europe aided and abetted by empire. And, yes, the Troika is part of empire.

    • catalan
      July 24, 2015, 4:38 pm

      “And, yes, the Troika is part of empire.” Keith
      It s obvious that the monetary union is not working, as the creditors – Germany, Netherlands- are hoarding money at the expense of the borrowers – Greece, Spain. However, the way Greece has been trying to secure relief has been a disaster. Remember, in Europe they don’t get along so well. There are poorer countries than Greece both in the EU and the euro zone. Those cannot be asked to contribute to far richer Greece within the present framework. I understand that you like the rhetoric of Syriza. In Europe, things are viewed very differently. Greece is seen to be demanding more than its share, and there is zero solidarity across borders.
      The Europeans have to decide if they want to transfer money to all the poorer countries, not just Greece, or simply break up their union.

      • Keith
        July 25, 2015, 12:31 pm

        CATALAN- “The Europeans have to decide if they want to transfer money to all the poorer countries, not just Greece….”

        The Troika (not the Europeans) have not transferred any money to Greece. They have bailed out European banks and Wall Street hedge funds. It has long been known that that these loans are unpayable and would need to be restructured for the Greek economy to grow. But Greece is being destroyed as an object lesson to the other smaller nations to not resist imperial financial control. Now the banksters effectively own Greece and will proceed to privatize everything they can, which is what neoliberalism is all about. This is an example of financial warfare and economic conquest. The creation of the Eurozone was a huge blunder insofar as the European Central Bank effectively controls the European political economy at the macro level. Unfortunately, it will be very difficult for Greece to extricate itself from these created financial dependencies. I provide just one quote and link, however, there are many more at progressive websites like Counterpunch, Znet, Global Research, etc.

        “It’s never been more obvious that Greece has been sold out to the banks. Like many countries before, their nation has been scheduled to endure poverty and chaos, followed by a firesale of their assets.

        The latest evidence of their nation’s capture by the banks, is the selling of their numerous islands to wealthy buyers.

        American business magnate, one of the world’s most successful investors, Warren Buffett has reportedly bought the Greek island of Agios Thomas for 15 mln euro, according to the website of the Greek newspaper Proto Thema and became yet another celebrity with his own piece of Greece.” (Joshua KKrause) http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-firesale-begins-tsipras-agrees-to-sell-greek-assets/5463707

      • Citizen
        July 26, 2015, 2:30 pm

        The Greek masses have not benefited from the debt incurred by their government; all the “bailout” has gone to the banks and other creditors. Americans should recognize this sort of thing by now since it happened to them. Greece is desperate; I’m sure the Israelis offered them a pittance thy couldn’t refuse. What ever the quid pro quo, it will benefit Israel, not Greece.

    • lysias
      July 27, 2015, 11:51 am

      Gotta wonder if the banksters and the rest of the powers that be want the Greeks to turn to Golden Dawn.

      • catalan
        July 27, 2015, 12:10 pm

        “Gotta wonder if the banksters and the rest of the powers that be want the Greeks to turn to Golden Dawn. – ” Lysias
        Actually it’s the Germans. Obama, the French, te IMF all want debt forgiveness. It’s the Germans, who destroyed Greece in WW2 and slaughtered the Jews of Thesaloniki who now demand enormous amounts of money from this small country. The new generation has no remorse for the evil deeds of its mass murder grandparents and just don’t care. There is also the fact that Greece is a small country, and hey, why not destroy it. Its a tragedy, however, the enemy is not neoliberalism as Keith likes to suggest. Privatizing the Acropolis can be done very effectively and with great benefit to the Greeks. The problem is that Germany has found a way to enslave all of Europe, this time financially. People are too hung up on this privatization stuff to see it. The “good” guys in Europe – Germany, Netherlands, Denmark – are actually all evil.

      • Annie Robbins
        July 27, 2015, 1:38 pm

        The problem is that Germany has found a way to enslave all of Europe

        oh my.

      • catalan
        July 27, 2015, 1:48 pm

        The problem is that Germany has found a way to enslave all of Europe Annie’s response “oh my”
        You disagree? Just look at it – Italy, Spain, Greece, Portugal all hold mountains of debt. Germany on the other hand is sitting pretty, using the cheap Euro to sell exports to these countries, thereby hoarding more cash. Meanwhile, the interest on German debt is .5 percent for 10 year note, much lower than that of Portugal or Greece, which are precisely the countries needing investment in roads and education.

        While the Germans are taking their fun summer vacations, with their enormous salaries and huge pensions, the Greeks are facing a humanitarian catastrophe. But all we hear is lazy Greeks and hard working Germans. The worst part is that they have sold this crazy narrative to many people.
        Yes, it’s called debt slavery. When you are asking Greece to pay 300 billion dollars it is slavery. Not surprised to see no empathy on this blog.

      • Keith
        July 27, 2015, 5:03 pm

        CATALAN- “The new generation has no remorse for the evil deeds of its mass murder grandparents and just don’t care.”

        What crap! The average German has nothing to do with this. It all comes down to the banks and neoliberalism. The real question for me is why you hate the German Goyim so much? You are acting as if World War II was yesterday. Perhaps you and Tokyobk should get together or at least correspond. You two would have a lot to talk about.

        CATALAN- “The problem is that Germany has found a way to enslave all of Europe, this time financially.”

        Germany is part of empire with rather limited ability for discretionary action. If independent, they would never have gone along with the sanctions against Russia which are hurting Germany as least as much Russia. Part of the reason for these sanctions is to punish Germany for even considering closer ties with Russia which would have conflicted with imperial objectives. That is what the coup in the Ukraine was all about. And when the dust there settles, the empire will expect the German people to absorb a lot of that financial burden.

      • RoHa
        July 27, 2015, 7:27 pm

        “Privatizing the Acropolis can be done very effectively and with great benefit to the Greeks. ”

        Hell, yes! I’ve been there. The place is a total wreck. It needs a developer to clear the old rubble off the site and build some fancy apartments and a shopping mall. Those lazy Greeks need to get off their arses and start work on the place.

      • just
        July 28, 2015, 12:31 am

        LOLOL, RoHa !!

      • Mooser
        July 28, 2015, 11:30 am

        ” It needs a developer to clear the old rubble off the site and build some fancy apartments and a shopping mall.”

        “RoHa” is right. Just look at the place!

  3. Laurent Weppe
    July 24, 2015, 5:48 pm

    Greece’s ruling ostensibly left-wing Syriza party signed a “status of forces” accord with Israel on July 19

    Well, Syriza is allied to the far-right party Anel: Panos Kammenos, the guy on the left side of the picture being the party’s leader and a proud member of the growing family of pro-Israel antisemites

  4. Dagon
    July 24, 2015, 10:05 pm

    The greek people are pro palestinian.Syriza and tsipras are traitors.What was that referendum all about.

  5. Maximus Decimus Meridius
    July 25, 2015, 7:18 am

    He insisted that the “Greek people are very close to the people in Israel.”

    According to my Greek friends, precisely the opposite is true.

  6. Sibiriak
    July 25, 2015, 7:40 am

    9 Jun 2015

    Greece officially starts using term ‘Palestine’

    Palestine is ‘in our hearts,’ FM Kotzias says, hailing ‘centuries-old’ political ties,’ but stopping short of full recognition

    […]During the joint press conference Monday, Kotzias said he looked forward to implementing a memorandum of understanding on “political consultations” between the Greek and Palestinian foreign ministries. He also vowed to increase financial aid to Palestinian students, despite his country’s current financial difficulties.

    “We have centuries-old political and historical ties, and the country’s support for the Palestinian cause is well known,” he added.

    […]Greece’s current government is understood to be very critical of Israeli policies vis-à-vis the Palestinians. During last summer’s Gaza war, Prime Minister Tsipras said Israel’s “brutality cannot be tolerated.” Senior members of his far-left Syriza party, which holds an almost absolute majority in parliament, participated in the 2010 flotilla, which sought to break Israel’s naval blockade on Gaza and resulted in a deadly clash between Turkish activists and Israeli troops. One of the party’s delegates to the European Parliament is said to be openly sympathetic to Hamas.

    However, Greek government officials and representatives of the Jewish community said relations between Athens and Jerusalem will remain friendly, as both sides value the “strategic importance” of increased bilateral cooperation.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/stopping-short-of-full-recognition-greece-officially-starts-using-term-palestine/

    • Sibiriak
      July 25, 2015, 7:46 am

      7 July /2015

      […]With Greece’s future shrouded in great uncertainty, Greek Foreign Minister Nikos Kotzias spoke in Jerusalem on Monday of developing an axis of security and stability among Israel, Greece, and Cyprus inside what he called a regional “triangle of destabilization.”

      Speaking alongside Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu before their meeting, Kotzias said that, “We are living inside a triangle of destabilization,” which he said begins “at the top” with Ukraine, and extends on one side to Libya, and on the other through Iraq and Syria.

      http://www.jpost.com/International/Greece-deep-in-crisis-is-keen-on-axis-of-security-with-Israel-and-Cyprus-408195

  7. Palikari
    July 25, 2015, 8:13 am

    I love Greece and the Greek people!!!

  8. amigo
    July 25, 2015, 9:09 am

    Sinn Fein , who has been Greece,s strongest supporter in the Dail (Irish parliament) may have to retract it.

    http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/35706

    Sinn Fein which is a staunch supporter of Palestinian rights will not view positively this arrangement by Greece with the GOI . Sinn Fein is the third largest party in the Dail , (14 seats out of 166) and if you add to that the dozen or so Independent members , who are also pro Palestinian , Greece will see it,s support decrease considerably. Sinn Fein is hardly likely to continue it,s support for Greece if it,s leaders are using some of the financial support to visit and make agreements with Israel that would allow IDF war criminals walk free in the EU.

    In any event , all of this is superfluous as Israel is going down the tubes.Self destruction is a hard disease to cure , especially as Zionists are so deeply mired in their support for land theft and belief that they are the chosen people and can do as they please with impunity.

  9. Mivasair
    July 25, 2015, 9:26 am

    This is a pragmatic, strategic move about exploiting the natural gas fields in the eastern Mediterranean, not about the Greek people’s love of Israel.

  10. Scotch
    July 25, 2015, 10:03 am

    There’s nothing “illegal” about the occupation by Israel of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. The UN acknowledges the right to self defense, which clearly is what those occupations are. The Palestinian “liberation” groups openly say they do not and will not accept Israel and their only goal is to erase it.

    Further, a UN resolution passed after the ’67 war acknowledges Israel’s right to borders it can defend, but everyone forgets about that one.

    Secondly, the UN is a collection of representatives of governments. The idea that people can get together and vote on matters of what is right or wrong is ridiculous, especially when those people work for governments which have an agenda. Nothing is legal or illegal because the UN says so. That’s a joke.

    “Massacres civilians”? Oh right… the ‘genocide”. The Arab population of the Gaza Strip has grown at 4 times the rate the Jewish population of Israel has. “Genocide” is a joke too, and it’s time you either admit that it’s not happening or that the Israelis are the most inept people at it in the whole world.

    • Annie Robbins
      July 25, 2015, 10:20 am

      The UN acknowledges the right to self defense, which clearly is what those occupations are.

      actually, you’re wrong http://www.jadaliyya.com/pages/index/8799/no-israel-does-not-have-the-right-to-self-defense-

      No, Israel Does Not Have the Right to Self-Defense In International Law Against Occupied Palestinian Territory
      In international law, self-defense is the legal justification for a state to initiate the use of armed force and to declare war. This is referred to as jus ad bellum—meaning “when it is just to begin to fight.” The right to fight in self-defense is distinguished from jus in bello, the principles and laws regulating the means and methods of warfare itself. Jus ad bellum aims to limit the initiation of the use of armed force in accordance with United Nations Charter Article 2(4); its sole justification, found in Article 51, is in response to an armed attack (or an imminent threat of one in accordance with customary law on the matter). The only other lawful way to begin a war, according to Article 51, is with Security Council sanction, an option reserved—in principle, at least—for the defense or restoration of international peace and security.

      Once armed conflict is initiated, and irrespective of the reason or legitimacy of such conflict, the jus in bello legal framework is triggered. Therefore, where an occupation already is in place, the right to initiate militarized force in response to an armed attack, as opposed to police force to restore order, is not a remedy available to the occupying state. The beginning of a military occupation marks the triumph of one belligerent over another. In the case of Israel, its occupation of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, the Golan Heights, and the Sinai in 1967 marked a military victory against Arab belligerents.

      Occupation Law prohibits an occupying power from initiating armed force against its occupied territory. By mere virtue of the existence of military occupation, an armed attack, including one consistent with the UN Charter, has already occurred and been concluded. Therefore the right of self-defense in international law is, by definition since 1967, not available to Israel with respect to its dealings with real or perceived threats emanating from the West Bank and Gaza Strip population. To achieve its security goals, Israel can resort to no more than the police powers, or the exceptional use of militarized force, vested in it by IHL. This is not to say that Israel cannot defend itself—but those defensive measures can neither take the form of warfare nor be justified as self-defense in international law. As explained by Ian Scobbie:

      To equate the two is simply to confuse the legal with the linguistic denotation of the term ”defense.“ Just as ”negligence,“ in law, does not mean ”carelessness” but, rather, refers to an elaborate doctrinal structure, so ”self-defense” refers to a complex doctrine that has a much more restricted scope than ordinary notions of ”defense.“

      To argue that Israel is employing legitimate “self-defense” when it militarily attacks Gaza affords the occupying power the right to use both police and military force in occupied territory. An occupying power cannot justify military force as self-defense in territory for which it is responsible as the occupant. The problem is that Israel has never regulated its own behavior in the West Bank and Gaza as in accordance with Occupation Law.

      more at the link, i recommend

      • Citizen
        July 26, 2015, 2:46 pm

        “The only good injun is a dead injun.” Israel justifies what it does to the natives by referencing 19th Century USA, just as if this is not the 21st Century, and as if two world wars were not fought in the 20th Century, and the Nuremberg Trials were never held, and international law was not made pursuant thereto.

    • Teapot
      July 25, 2015, 11:21 am

      a UN resolution passed after the ’67 war acknowledges Israel’s right to borders it can defend

      If Israel wants borders that are easy to defend, how about making the country smaller? That way there are far fewer acres to defend. And what if Israel’s neighbors decide that they can only defend their borders if Israel was wiped off the map? After all, Israel has violated Lebanon’s borders several times already. Or does only Israel have the right to pick convenient borders? I hope you realize how ridiculous your argument is.

    • Mooser
      July 25, 2015, 1:27 pm

      Wow, that comment from “Scotch” is really telling. Apparently comments get held up in Mondo Moderation for years!
      Jeez, comments from a decade ago only now being published? Pick up the pace there, Moderators.

    • Bumblebye
      July 25, 2015, 1:31 pm

      Ooh, a new toy! Self-described as a “top facebook commenter”.
      The link will provide you with many further, mostly Israeli including government, in which it is abundantly clear that claims of “self defense” by Israel are complete bs:
      http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/23/wrong-on-the-facts-wrong-on-the-law-israelis-false-claims-of-self-defense-in-gaza-war/

    • talknic
      July 25, 2015, 1:31 pm

      @ Scotch “There’s nothing “illegal” about the occupation by Israel of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. “

      The UNSC has called for Israel to end the occupation. Israel has ignored the numerous UNSC resolutions reaffirming and emphasizing binding Law and the UN Charter also binding. Israel is in breach of its legal obligations to the UN Charter. It is therefore illegal.

      “The UN acknowledges the right to self defense, which clearly is what those occupations are. The Palestinian “liberation” groups openly say they do not and will not accept Israel and their only goal is to erase it.”

      The UN does not allow the acquisition of territory by war or the illegal settlement of territories under occupation. BTW care to quote quot the Palestinian liberation groups, verbatim? I’ll wait

      “Further, a UN resolution passed after the ’67 war acknowledges Israel’s right to borders it can defend, but everyone forgets about that one”

      Quote it … In fact it says this states must have respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

      Israel’s boundaries were recognized prior to it being accepted into the UN. Israel has not since legally acquired any territory.

      “Secondly, the UN is a collection of representatives of governments. The idea that people can get together and vote on matters of what is right or wrong is ridiculous, especially when those people work for governments which have an agenda. Nothing is legal or illegal because the UN says so. That’s a joke”

      Saddam didn’t think it was a joke when he invaded Kuwait nor Indonesia when it was demanded it end its occupation over East Timor.

      ” “Massacres civilians”? Oh right… the ‘genocide”. The Arab population of the Gaza Strip has grown at 4 times the rate the Jewish population of Israel has. “

      Irrelevant. Growth rates do not mean massacres have not occurred. The world’s Jewish population has doubled, so the Holocaust didn’t happen I guess. Interesting theory you have

      ““Genocide” is a joke too, and it’s time you either admit that it’s not happening or that the Israelis are the most inept people at it in the whole world”

      Look up the definition some time….

    • jon s
      July 25, 2015, 2:25 pm

      Scotch,
      Welcome to MW.

      • amigo
        July 25, 2015, 4:54 pm

        “Scotch,
        Welcome to MW.” jon s

        Don,t forget to show scotch the donate button.You wouldn,t want MW to go out of business.

    • eljay
      July 25, 2015, 7:09 pm

      || Scotch @ July 25, 2015, 10:03 am ||

      Another Zio-supremacist joins MW in order to tell people that:
      – acts of injustice and immorality committed against Jews justify acts of injustice and immorality committed by Jews;
      – Jews are entitled to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality they would not have others do unto them; and
      – Israel is a “Western-style democracy, a “light unto the nations” and a “moral beacon…except for when it’s not as bad as Saudi Arabia, Mali and African “hell-holes”.

    • CigarGod
      July 26, 2015, 8:08 am

      “…right to borders it can defend…”

      Israel used to look like an Oreo, now,
      Israeli looks like a big chunk of Swiss Cheese.

      Nice job of making it easier to defend.

    • ivri
      July 27, 2015, 1:11 pm

      @scotch
      WOW, what got into you man? Throwing all the truth in the face of people in such a brutal manner with no consideration at all of how hurtful that might be? How merciless can a person be?

      • Mooser
        July 28, 2015, 11:35 am

        “Irvi” if you want to know the truth, it was all the links “Scotch” provided to unassailable primary sources which clearly supported his opinion which got the Mondo Moderators all non plussed!
        And in their confusion and shame, they pressed the “print” button, and the truth spilled out for all to see!

  11. NickJOCW
    July 26, 2015, 5:37 am

    I wouldn’t read too much into it. Greece is in a socially and politically fractured state between the devil and the deep blue, and no one is really in control. Kammenos pursues his own agenda and Tsipras needs him right now while outsiders are sweeping up Greek assets and the populace feels cheated. Should his fragile government fall something frighteningly right wing could take its place. Consider the recent ADL survey indicating 69% take a dim view of Jews. http://global100.adl.org/#country/greece

  12. Bornajoo
    July 26, 2015, 5:57 am

    “Secondly, the UN is a collection of representatives of governments. The idea that people can get together and vote on matters of what is right or wrong is ridiculous, especially when those people work for governments which have an agenda. Nothing is legal or illegal because the UN says so. That’s a joke”

    Welcome to MW Scotch. Well in that case I hope you agree that when the UN voted to give Israel statehood by the two thirds majority back in 1949 it was a terrible mistake? Just think about what happened! “The idea that people can get together and vote on matters of what is right or wrong is ridiculous, especially when those people work for governments which have an agenda. Nothing is legal or illegal because the UN says so. That’s a joke”

    And that certainly was a massively wrong and terrible decision. Israel definitely should not have been a legal state “because the UN says so” Right Scotch? Or are you happy to accept the UN decisions only when it suits israel? That is the “logic” of your argument

    • bintbiba
      July 26, 2015, 8:43 am

      @ Bornajoo

      Brilliant perspective —> repartee !!
      Perfect !!

      …….”.And that certainly was a massively wrong and terrible decision. Israel definitely should not have been a legal state “because the UN says so” Right Scotch? Or are you happy to accept the UN decisions only when it suits israel? That is the “logic” of your argument”

      • CigarGod
        July 26, 2015, 8:52 am

        Scotch gets sent back down to the minors.

    • amigo
      July 26, 2015, 11:09 am

      “Welcome to MW Scotch. Well in that case I hope you agree that when the UN voted to give Israel statehood by the two thirds majority back in 1949 it was a terrible mistake? – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/07/greeces-syriza-military#sthash.DUP5YiRi.dpuf“Bornajoo.

      + 10 Borajoo.

      The UN is only good when it backs Israel.Everything else is antisemitism invading the halls of the UN.

      Scotch reminds me of the sports fan who only reads articles by pundits that write favourably about his /her team.Those who point out the weaknesses don,t know what they are talking about or have a hate on .

      It,s part of the self duping process that all zionists practice at their peril.

  13. ivri
    July 27, 2015, 1:06 pm

    Syriza is not about being “left” (it took in the Golden-Dawn party) but exclusively about dealing with the economic-financial problems that Greece faces now. It was elected only for this reason and anything that furthers a solution, or rather a relief, there.
    It is in this light that deals with Israel need to be seen. From its angle Israel needs airspace for its modern and large air-force; it does not have too many friends in instinctively anti-Israeli Europe: and its erstwhile real good relationship with turkey, the traditional foe of Greece, is practically over. That`s the realistic basis of the deal (plus all kinds of advantages for both sides) and that`s what Realpolitik is about.

    • amigo
      July 27, 2015, 3:51 pm

      From its angle Israel needs airspace for its modern and large air-force; it does not have too many friends in instinctively anti-Israeli Europe: – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/07/greeces-syriza-military#comment-150558” ivri

      Greece as part of the , (anti Israel —your words) EU is bound by the FP of said EU.So from our angle , we will make it clear to Greece that making military type deals with Israel will not help their cause.

    • Maximus Decimus Meridius
      July 27, 2015, 5:12 pm

      “its erstwhile real good relationship with turkey, the traditional foe of Greece, is practically over. ”

      Murdering a country’s civilians on the high seas will tend to do that.

      Israel: Alienating its allies since 1949.

  14. ivri
    July 27, 2015, 5:04 pm

    @amigo
    The point is that Greece right now only feels bound, and rightly so, by its own interests. It cannot be threatened anymore by anybody given what`s going on now. Irrespective of Israel, which is sideline show in Greek`s saga, my own feeling is that with all of that the EU has lost a lot of political clout. Given the already strong Euro-skeptic forces (including the coming referendum in Britain), the still weak economies in Southern Europe and the growing Russian ambitions (even beyond Ukraine, e.g. in the Baltic countries)) and the continually weakening Euro – we are going to witness some real changes down the road in the EU structure. The Greeks understand that and hence their independent approach.

  15. just
    July 27, 2015, 5:34 pm

    Anyone remember this from last year?

    “Tzipi Livni is Israel’s Justice Minister. Five years ago she was afraid to travel because of potential international prosecution for war crimes. But she’s on vacation in a Greek-speaking land, according to her Facebook page. Ofer Neiman translates:

    Tzipi Livni goes on vacation (apparently in Greece, maybe Cyprus), and discovers a “horrible” sign saying “Free Palestine “, with the names of Palestinian cities (Gaza, Jenin, Nablus and Hebron). She says: “I still managed to tear a part of the sign, but it is evident more than ever that the battle ahead of us is in the international arena. We must act anywhere in the world to make it clear who here is the terrorist, and who is the state defending its citizens from terror”.

    – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2014/09/livnis-vacation-nightmare#sthash.W7wyf8Wb.dpuf

    • CigarGod
      July 27, 2015, 6:47 pm

      Tears the sign down.
      Is the whole world playing to/nurturing lynch mobs and going caveman?

  16. ivri
    July 28, 2015, 5:43 am

    @Cigar: “Is the whole world….
    No, no need to despair and give up on things – what goes on in Syria, Yemen, Libya and Iraq may one day end. And who knows – the Arab world may even one day do a big re-think and come to a conclusion that it was all along pursuing all along the wrong target, while its real problems and treats lie entirely elsewhere.

    • CigarGod
      July 28, 2015, 9:35 am

      Oh, yes.
      That monolithic arab world…like the monolithic jewish one.

    • Mooser
      July 28, 2015, 1:16 pm

      “And who knows – the Arab world may even one day do a big re-think and come to a conclusion that it was all along pursuing all along the wrong target, while its real problems and treats lie entirely elsewhere.”

      And when that happens, won’t those dual-passports come in handy!

      • ivri
        July 29, 2015, 2:28 am

        @mooser
        Well, in the conditions of Israel who knows? But at least that will be an interesting twist to the Israel-Arab saga.
        Truly, it`s already happening. There is an altogether order of priorities in regard to Israel in Arab countries – Israel and the Palestinians are now in the back-burner of many. There are also all kinds of (implicit) real close contacts. Things are certainly fluid here.

  17. Atlantaiconoclast
    July 28, 2015, 1:55 pm

    The problem is private central banking folks. When progressives realize this, positive change will happen.

  18. Betsy
    July 28, 2015, 2:25 pm

    here is a very good article on Greece’s complicated energy situation, with historical background to understand what Syriza is up to (and it’s internal divisions). Also, bear in mind that Kammenos is not from Syriza. http://unionsforenergydemocracy.org/third-memorandum-or-grexit-what-are-the-implications-for-the-future-of-greeces-energy-system/

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