Liberal Zionists are losing control of US discourse, and they know it

US Politics
on 51 Comments

If you don’t think the movement for Palestinian solidarity is having an effect, check out the three items below from inside the Zionist community. In each case, there is an admission by Israel supporters that pro-Israel voices are losing their sway inside American Jewish life, because of the strength of the Palestinian story. (It is just as Tamara Cofman Wittes, a demiurge of pro-Israel sentiment, stated at Columbia the other night, Israel is losing the Democratic base.)

First, the liberal Zionist group J Street publishes a blog by an Evanston, Illinois, rabbi about a visit to the West Bank in which she sees the one-state reality. J Street states that her views are not necessarily those of J Street, but the damage has been done. Remember that J Street has sought to deny one-state awareness; but now it is inside the family. Rabbi Andrea London at one point states that violence is inevitable when you oppress another people:

To keep the Palestinians quiet, the military has to rely on collective punishment and mass intimidation…

Salwa [Duaibis of Military Court Watch] was able to shed light on the psychological damage that’s been done to Palestinian society; people don’t trust each other because they don’t know who’s an informant, Palestinian children don’t see a future for themselves, and the population feels powerless to change its circumstances.

This is good for a military trying to control a population, but it has devastating effects on the prospects for peace.

People who despair are more likely to commit acts of violence because they see no hope for a better future….

Then she quotes the great Iyad Burnat of Bil’in, that it’s one state.

Iyyad believes that a one-state solution is the only practical resolution to the conflict. He doesn’t see how the populations could practically be separated.

Item two. The Forward is a Zionist publication. It supports the Jewish state. It offers short essays from six Jewish students this week about the climate on campus. And look at who turns up! Three of the students are all but out for Palestine. While one student states that pro-BDS activists–boycott, divestment and sanctions campaign against Israel– intimidated her, two others are members of the Students for Justice in Palestine chapters on their campus, and a third states that he sympathizes with the pro-Palestinian movement on campus and “the Jewish community devalues my identity because it’s not parallel to theirs.”

Ben Berman of Clark University is in the anti-Israel lobby:

As I educated myself more about the Zionist project’s ongoing confiscation of Palestinian Arabs’ homes, land and resources, I concluded that even if many early Zionists never intended to commit such structural oppression, Jews today are obligated to stand against injustice — especially when it’s being committed by some of our own.

Rose Asaf of NYU “rejects the conflation of Judaism and Zionism,” and

I believe that Jewish people, myself included, are responsible for robustly opposing the oppression we know far too well. Censuring the Israeli government does not mean you are a bad Jew, nor does it mean you are anti-Israel; it means that you care. I am a critic of Israel but remain a proud Jew.

Third item. David Eisner is a bigwig in a leading Jewish organization’s “National Task Force to Promote Israel’s Security and Legitimacy.” He writes at the Jewish Week that  pro-Israel forces are losing the “narrative war.”
the BDS movement has hijacked the Zionist narrative, and the narrative of the Israel-Palestinian conflict. The fact that we are even having an argument about BDS means we have already given our enemies 80 percent of the victory…

Notice the power that Eisner grants to BDS:

according to the [American Jewish Committee’s] annual surveys of the Jewish community, affinity toward Israel has declined slowly but steadily since 2005 when BDS began (though BDS is not necessarily the main cause of this decline)…
He recognizes that the sociology is moving in one direction:
The percentage of “Jews of no religion,” who, as a group, feel less attachment to Israel, has skyrocketed in the past decade, and affinity for Israel, even among the Birthright generation, is substantially lower than among older Jews

Eisner says the pro-Israel community has to shift to a more positive campaign and redeploy smart young Jewish advocates from “responding intensively to the most extreme forms of anti-Israel activity to a much more positive, proactive and strategic approach toward improving sympathy and empathy for Israel.”

But they’re already trying to do that. The breakup of the liberal Zionist consensus in the blue-state establishment has begun. More and more liberal Zionists will come out for BDS as the only alternative to apartheid and bloodshed. The New York Times will begin to publish anti-Zionists. We are fast approaching that moment when an Israeli leader, pressured by American Jewish leaders, announces, “We have heard you,” and tries to pivot to a kinder, gentler Zionism.
About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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51 Responses

  1. Talkback
    April 1, 2016, 2:19 pm

    “But they’re already trying to do that.”

    I think that everyone needs to read the Hasbara manuals to understand how Israel’s propaganda works

    Israel Projects 2009 Global Language Dictionary: https://www.transcend.org/tms/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/sf-israel-projects-2009-global-language-dictionary.pdf

    Habara Handbook – Promoting Israel on Campus: https://www.sott.net/signs/hasbara.pdf

    “Communicating the Truth About Israel”: https://jewishphilosophyplace.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/luntz-presentation-9-2014.pdf

  2. ritzl
    April 1, 2016, 4:07 pm

    Giant leaping kudos to Rabbi London for actually spending some time in the WB, Palestine AND for being open enough to internalize what she witnessed there. I can’t recall any “establishment” Jews doing that. Maybe it has happened, but exceedingly rarely.

    Q: How can US Jews motivate a Jewish-Israeli body politic to do the right thing that, as a solid bloc, can not/does not see the murder and oppression happening just a few meters away?

    That Lowenstein article was a real eye opener.

    Q2: Frustrated by the above [insurmountable] roadblock, can/will US Jews support Ayman Odeh in an attempt to create a new political dynamic in Israel-Palestine capable of implementing their newfound civil/human rights sensibilities? Or must the solution to equal rights in Israel-Palestine be solely of Jewish origination and implementation?

    Again from Mr. Lowenstein’s article, if sole Jewish authorship and implementation is a requirement for US Jews who have had epiphanies on this issue, it isn’t happening. Ever. The Jewish-Israeli body politic is simply not convinceable.

    Somehow I get the feeling that the requirement for Jewish ownership of the process to achieve equal rights in Israel is a bigger obstacle to overcome than getting to the basic yes?-no? moral epiphany has been. I may be wrong about that. I hope I am. The Palestinians don’t have another couple of generations to throw away waiting for someone else to make up their mind(s) about what the Palestinians’ fate is to be.

    • Mooser
      April 2, 2016, 12:36 pm

      “Somehow I get the feeling that the requirement for Jewish ownership of the process to achieve equal rights in Israel is a bigger obstacle to overcome than getting to the basic yes?-no? moral epiphany has been.”

      Bingo!!!!!! You have hit the bulls-eye, rung the bell, and you are entitled to a stuffed animal, cigar or coco-nut, winner’s choice.

      • Pixel
        April 3, 2016, 6:13 pm

        @mooser

        :O)

      • ritzl
        April 5, 2016, 5:18 am

        I often can’t tell if you’re chastising me or not mooser, but it’s always insightful AND funny. :))

        Summud.

      • Mooser
        April 5, 2016, 11:14 am

        “ritzl” I thought you put it very well. Thanks. “The requirement for Jewish ownership of the process” is very destructive to it.

  3. David Doppler
    April 1, 2016, 6:12 pm

    “This is good for a military trying to control a population, but it has devastating effects on the prospects for peace.”

    “Good” here is a poor word choice. There are short term tactical advantages for the military in driving the occupied to despair and distrust. But the effect on the military of being an occupying force is also deeply corrupting for the military. It’s like being a jailer, or a slave owner: you’ve got unchecked power which allows you abuse other human beings, and you de-humanize them as objects of scorn, cruelty and the butt of humor, to allow you to function in the face of their plight. But it’s not at all “good” for you, as a human being or the military as an institution, as US Grant noted – about the South having the most to gain by its defeat – in his memoirs. Not that Israel has more to gain than Palestine from ending the occupation, but it will itself be “better” when that occurs.

  4. JWalters
    April 1, 2016, 6:42 pm

    Thanks for these updates on the progress of facts and justice. Historically, it has always take great efforts by the many to overcome the power of concentrated wealth and its army of shooters and deceivers.

  5. Krauss
    April 1, 2016, 11:57 pm

    The liberal Jewish establishment is part and parcel of the Clinton Coalition. The young liberals are all for Bernie, which is ironic since you’d expect the Jews to be with the Jewish candidate, but nope.

    Anyway, their decline in influence must be traced alongside the decline of Clintonism among the young. Clintonism, support for Wall Street and being slavish to the Israel lobby, isn’t winning a lot of future votes.

    They should be scared, because the writing is on the wall.

    • Annie Robbins
      April 2, 2016, 12:34 am

      but i think lots of young liberal jews are probably sanders supporters, like sarah silverman.

      • echinococcus
        April 2, 2016, 12:52 am

        Well duh, she’s a “liberal” Zionist, intervening in Zionist elections. Must be confusing the US election with those in the Zionist entity (and, understandably, her candidate here with her candidate there.)

        http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/189585/sarah-silverman-weighs-in-on-israeli-election

        What’s less understandable is MW being so nice to “liberal” Zionists.

      • Annie Robbins
        April 2, 2016, 12:58 am

        What’s less understandable is MW being so nice to “liberal” Zionists.

        bla bla bla bla bla. we already know your anti sanders spiel. do i care what you understand? not really.

      • echinococcus
        April 2, 2016, 3:42 am

        Annie,
        As shown by the sentence you quoted, your support to Sanders was not being questioned, but your being comfortable with Zionists.

      • Annie Robbins
        April 2, 2016, 10:20 am

        echin, although i assumed it was obvious, i was responding to krauss’s assertion: The young liberals are all for Bernie, which is ironic since you’d expect the Jews to be with the Jewish candidate, but nope.

        his statement implies the “young liberals” he’s referencing are not jewish. my comment was neither “nice” nor “comfortable”, it was merely an observation.

        and if you’re referencing the theme of phil’s article (“Liberal Zionists are losing control of US discourse, and they know it” ), him quoting the rabbi (a liberal zionist), quoting the students, or my mention of silverman (clearly a liberal zionist), because — as you allege — it connotes ‘comfort’ i’d suggest another site. because as i am sure you know by now phil follows the discourse or/and the trends in discourse in the jewish community which includes (whether you like it or not) zionists. it doesn’t mean he, i, or we approve of zionism. it’s a fact they exist and this article is about them loosing control of the discourse. and if you don’t understand why he writes these articles (which i assume you think are too “nice”) — i don’t care.

        if you want to use this opportunity to rant on silverman have at it. i am not a big fan of hers so i could care less. or use this opportunity to rag on the site — go for it. really, i don’t care. but if you think you can get a rise out of me or extract some kind of denouncement on so called liberal zionism by picking an otherwise benign comment and going off on some chastising guilt trip it’s probably not going to happen. this penchant you have for finding a hook to hang your nagging rant on and expecting others to tow the line is old and boring. bye — take the last word.

      • echinococcus
        April 2, 2016, 3:03 pm

        Annie,

        I reread the whole thing. You have a point. I apologize if you did mark the liberal zionists as being such.
        On the other hand, the only borders I see in most of the writing here, when any are visible, always seem to be extremely fuzzy –if ever mentioned– re the “liberal” variety of Zionists. It may have to do with the style.

      • Annie Robbins
        April 2, 2016, 5:06 pm

        my opinion on ‘liberal zionism’ isn’t “fuzzy”, it’s the same as it’s always been.

        http://mondoweiss.net/2011/08/j-street-comes-to-syracuse/#comment-354008

        as beirnart mentioned in his much read article the failure of the american jewish establishment (paraphrasing) if kids are asked to make a choice between being left or liberal vs zionists, zionism will take a beating.

        that is why these ‘left’ groups like j street are so important to zionism, the warm and friendly ‘liberal zionist’. but there’s nothing left or liberal about zionism at all. neoliberal maybe, but not liberal.

        peps are liberal about everything but zionism. but zionism, by it’s very nature, is not liberal. so the term is an oxymoron.

    • yonah fredman
      April 2, 2016, 2:36 am

      Why I support hillary and not bernie: 1. I fear that Bernie is untested as a candidate and despite polls that indicate otherwise I fear that Trump might defeat Bernie. 2. Bernie is indeed talking about real change domestically, but this revolution is very superficial in terms of its support. He is way out ahead of the Democratic party and in fact the Republicans control both houses of the congress, and even if some changes occur in 2016, in 2018 the Republicans will regain the Congress because Democrat voters don’ t show up for midterm elections. (Change election day from Tuesday to Sunday and help Democrats and democracy take control of the Congress.)

      And 3. I confess to a smidgen of paranoia: a Jewish communist president (as he will be labeled) or even a Jewish socialist president (or social democrat, which is closer to an accurate description), makes me nervous as a jew. Joe lieberman’s candidacy made me feel nervous rather than proud as well, so it is the Jewish president of America which makes me skittish, more so than his “commie” leanings, although his commie leanings will make him a failed president and a failed Jewish president makes me nervous as well.

      On the issue of Israel I would prefer a strong president who can guide Israel on the path to a two state solution. There is nothing reassuring about Bernie or any of the other candidates (hillary, Donald or cruz) on this score. I agreed with most everything Bernie wrote to aipac, but I view his chances of success as president in implementing that speech to be slim.

      But it is primarily his doomed domestic agenda and my paranoia regarding a commie jew president much more than his aipac speech that explain my support for hillary.

      • Mooser
        April 2, 2016, 7:51 pm

        “and my paranoia regarding a commie jew president”

        Yeah, there’s no doubt of that “Yonah”, you do have a problem with “paranoia”. And nobody is calling Bernie Sanders a “commie jew president” except you.

      • oldgeezer
        April 2, 2016, 11:46 pm

        @yonah

        Who is labelling him a communist Jewish anything besides you yonah?

        Being a nasty bigot is an integral part of who you are. I have no liking for Sanders or any of the other candidates but your remarks are beyond distasteful and into repugnant as are you and your values.

      • Sibiriak
        April 3, 2016, 1:18 am

        oldgeezer: Who is labelling him a communist Jewish anything besides you yonah?
        ————–

        Googling /Sanders Jewish communist/ will give you a rough idea.

      • Mooser
        April 3, 2016, 11:30 am

        “Googling /Sanders Jewish communist/ will give you a rough idea”

        A rough idea of who, besides “Yonah”, is calling Sanders a “commie jew president”?

      • Mooser
        April 3, 2016, 11:57 am

        “Being a nasty bigot is an integral part of who you are.”

        Well, we do have to make allowances for “Yonah’s” “paranoia”. Acute episodes of paranoia can be very debilitating. Disabling, even.

      • oldgeezer
        April 3, 2016, 4:07 pm

        @sibirak

        My bad… I should have included the word “here”. No need for me to Google it.

      • yonah fredman
        April 3, 2016, 4:45 pm

        bernie is a jew.

        bernie has been called a commie by donald trump.

        bernie spent his second honeymoon in the ussr and spoke glowingly of the sandinistas.

        i already told you that i feel that social democrat is a more accurate description, yet the rhetoric of campaigns and the hate that would accompany his presidency is not something that i invented. whether such rhetoric should make me nervous is a different question. obama was called a socialist and that doesn’t bother cornel west. (west is bothered by the fact that obama is a conservative). so why should i fear bernie being called a commie. i don’t know. it’s an unsettling year politically and being called a bigot by the likes of old geezer and being harassed for the 999th time by mooser, does not change the fact that this is an unsettling year politically.

      • Mooser
        April 4, 2016, 1:47 pm

        ” bernie is a jew. bernie has been called a commie by donald trump. bernie spent his second honeymoon in the ussr and spoke glowingly of the sandinistas

        Isn’t it awful, “Yonah”! If poor “bernie is a jew” wins, we all lose!
        Once again the cry of “commie jew president” will rend the air!

        I can just hear the sedulous and revolutionary cries from the masses as a Sander’s Presidency gives them more social services and a lower deficit. Why, they’ll be out in front of the White House with torches and pitchforks!

  6. Ossinev
    April 2, 2016, 7:43 am

    @ Talkback. Thanks for the hasbara manual links.

    I was particularly impressed by the following little gem in transcend.org handbook:

    “Don’t pretend that Israel is without mistakes or fault. It’s not true and no one
    believes it. Pretending Israel is free from errors does not pass the smell test.”

    All that desperate Hasbara for so many years has failed to contain the overwhelming STENCH emanating from the JSIL cesspit.

  7. RobertHenryEller
    April 2, 2016, 8:15 am

    Jews who believe that the teachings of Rabbi Hillel are intrinsic to being a Jew, regardless of whatever other rituals one does or does not attend to, are not going to feel a kinship to an Israel that does not govern itself by the teachings of Rabbi Hillel.

    • YoniFalic
      April 2, 2016, 8:33 am

      Someone that actually knew something about Judaic religion and history would never refer to Hillel HaGadol, or Hillel HaZaken, Hillel HaBavli with the usage Rabbi Hillel.

      Hillel was a Tanna, who practiced a Judaism that was very different from contemporary Jerusalem Temple Judaism and that was even more different from Rabbinic Judaism that became dominant after the 10th century.

      The operative attribute for understanding the point I try to make is HaBavli. Hillel was part of the effort to remake Palestinian Judaism according to Babylonian norms.

      • Mooser
        April 4, 2016, 1:52 pm

        “Hillel was a Tanna, who practiced a Judaism that was very different from contemporary Jerusalem Temple Judaism”

        Rabbi Hillel was a Tanna? That lucky guy! I’ve always been a burner.

        “Hillel was part of the effort to remake Palestinian Judaism according to Babylonian norms.”

        And I’ve heard those “Babylonian norms” were pretty wild, back in the day. Orgies and stuff. Too bad it didn’t work out.

  8. James Michie
    April 2, 2016, 9:34 am

    “pivot to a kinder gentler Zionism”? So what does this mean, Phil? Would “kinder gentler” Zionists cease using those skunk trucks that spray raw sewage into Palestinian homes and villages as a Zionist method of driving out still more Palestinians? Would “kinder, gentler” Zionists acquiesce to permitting the millions of Palestinians brutally driven at gunpoint from their homes and their country over the past six decades to return to Palestine? Would “kinder, gentler” Zionists accept the boundaries set after the 1967 war for an independent State of Israel and an independent State of Palestine? Would “kinder, gentler” Zionists vacate their illegal colonial “settlements” in East Jerusalem and the West Bank and return the lands to their rightful owners, the Palestinians? Would “kinder, gentler” Zionists tear down those 26-foot high concrete apartheid walls snaking through East Jerusalem and the West Bank that make travel for Palestinians in their own land virtually unbearable so as to “encourage” further Palestinian departures from their lands? Would “kinder, gentler” Zionists cease stealing wells and water in the West Bank to fill their swimming pools while depriving Palestinians water for their crops and other essential uses? Would “kinder, gentler Zionists remove their 10-year-long blockade/siege of Gaza, Zionist Israel’s own concentration camp for 1.8 million Palestinians who are cut off from their sister territories as well as from the rest of the world? Would “kinder, gentler” Zionists cease their extra-judicial executions of Palestinians in the streets of Palestine’s East Jerusalem and the West Bank and in the Palestinian farmlands near the border between Gaza and Zionist Israel? Would “kinder, gentler” Zionists cease shooting Gaza fisherman and allow them the freedom to fish in international waters? And finally, would “kinder, gentler” Zionists end their brutal, racist, genocidal, ethnic cleansing, fascist military occupation and rule over Palestine’s East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza? Please respond and enlighten us, Phil, on what can be expected of “kinder, gentler” Zionists in restoring freedom, justice and equality to Palestine lost six decades ago!

    • Fred Schlomka
      April 2, 2016, 2:52 pm

      James: – A “kinder Gentler Zionism” will never be able to ‘ . . . . . restore Freedom, Justice and Equality to Palestine . . . . ‘, for the simple reason that – it never existed, so cannot be restored, much as the vaunted liberation of Native Americans is so much myth.

      However a more liberal Zionism may, like post-JIm Crow America did for African-Americans, allow Palestinians to embark on a renewed search for identity within a more egalitarian environment.

      Beyond that what else is there to say. There is no perfect justice. There is no perfect retribution for past crimes. We can however strive for a more perfect future, elusive as it always is.

      • eljay
        April 2, 2016, 3:27 pm

        || Fred Schlomka: … a more liberal Zionism may, like post-JIm Crow America did for African-Americans, allow Palestinians to embark on a renewed search for identity within a more egalitarian environment. … ||

        If that environment is a secular and democratic Israel, maybe. If it’s religion-supremacist “Jewish State” – which is the only environment Zio-supremacists, liberal or hard-core, want to see in Israel – not so much. Unless by “embark on a renewed search for identity” you mean “undergo a religious conversion to Judaism”.

        || … allow Palestinians to embark on a renewed search for identity within a more egalitarian environment … ||

        Do you routinely suggest this to Jews as well?

        || … Beyond that what else is there to say. There is no perfect justice. … ||

        Another typically lame attempt at deflection. No-one’s calling for “perfect justice”. The problem with you Zio-supremacists is that you despise and wish to avoid any measure of justice and accountability for all of the (war) crimes you’ve committed and which you continue to commit deliberately and with impunity.

        || … There is no perfect retribution for past crimes. … ||

        I have no idea what “perfect retribution” is.

      • MHughes976
        April 2, 2016, 3:47 pm

        How much of an egalitarian atmosphere can be generated on a Zionist planet, though? Could the Palestinians expect, within that atmo, to become enfranchised citizens of a fully sovereign state, with borders, alliances etc.? Could they look for compensation for massive loss of property? These would be steps (I’m not saying adequate steps, but steps) towards improvement short of perfection, the sort of things canvassed in the more optimistic 2ss discussions. Could any ideology which is genuinely Zionist permit going even that far?

      • Mooser
        April 2, 2016, 6:49 pm

        “Beyond that what else is there to say.”

        You’ve said it all, “Schlmoka”. Amnesty for Israel’s crimes, immunity for Israel’s criminals, and no reparation or RoR.

        That’s real kinder and gentler. For somebody.

      • Mooser
        April 2, 2016, 7:02 pm

        “I have no idea what “perfect retribution” is.”

        That’s easy, “eljay”! “Retribution” is the word Zionists use instead of “accounting” responsibility” or “reparations” or even worse “restitution”.

        Or maybe I am underestimating “Fred” and he knows what Zionism deserves. And what it’s incapable of.

      • James Michie
        April 3, 2016, 9:07 am

        A highly transparent effort, Fred, to evade the questions on defining the behavior of a “kinder gentler” Zionist. Also an apparent admission that you are in no rush to quell Zionist Israel’s six-decade brutal, racist, genocidal, ethnic cleansing, fascist military occupation and rule over what remains of the State of Palestine not yet stolen by the Zionist land thieves.

    • MHughes976
      April 2, 2016, 3:06 pm

      The step towards Kind and Gentle would come with the statement ‘Pakestinians too have a right to exist in the Holy Land’. But that implies an immense effort of redress for the Palestinians and the abandonment of belief in relevant rights that are exclusively Jewish. So really Zionism would have to be abandoned both in theory and in practice, not merely modified.

    • Mooser
      April 2, 2016, 6:55 pm

      And “Fred” the Civil Rights legislation in the US did not “allow” anybody anything. The laws were passed to ensure all people got the rights they should have had, all along. Would you be insulted if they applied to Jews, too?

  9. Boomer
    April 2, 2016, 9:48 am

    Is this one of your April Fools Day pranks? It’s hard to tell from the headlines. You may risk your credibility by not labeling satire as such.

    On the other hand, here is a serious story that I hope is not a joke:
    http://www.juancole.com/2016/04/palestinian-rights-group-submits-israeli-war-crimes-report-to-intl-criminal-court.html

  10. Ossinev
    April 2, 2016, 10:59 am

    Speaking of “Liberal American Zionists” watch and squirm as the reptilian Alan Dertshowitz lies through his teeth yet again. Warning ! – keep your sick bucket close by.

  11. DaBakr
    April 2, 2016, 5:14 pm

    note to pw:

    fyi: the NYT has been publishing anti-zionist anti-israel opinion pieces for many years. proof:
    you made made mention of the dozens of op-eds that upset lots of american jews and asst. pro-zionists. you’ve been cheering on the supposed onslaught of anti-zionist opinion for many years while the basic stats of the % of jews identifying as zionist and pro-irael has remained basically steady for decades-with drops in numbers during periods when american presidents played hardball w military attempting to push policy.

  12. Frankie P
    April 2, 2016, 6:18 pm

    Headline!!! Liberal Zionists are losing control of US discourse, and they know it

    Money Quote from Eisner: Eisner says the pro-Israel community has to shift to a more positive campaign and redeploy smart young Jewish advocates from “responding intensively to the most extreme forms of anti-Israel activity to a much more positive, proactive and strategic approach toward improving sympathy and empathy for Israel.”

    Frankie’s comment: Perhaps liberal Zionists and their brother Zionists of a more bloodthirsty, fascistic, inhuman stripe should focus more on the morality of their actions and less on controlling the discourse. Herein lies the root of the problem.

    • DaBakr
      April 2, 2016, 8:41 pm

      when i see the pro-israel pro-zionist u.s. numbers drop lower then they were in past difficult times with israel (e.g.: bush1/baker slap down) i could discuss this obsession mw seems to have about isolating liberal zionists from centrist zionists. forget about conservative and right wing zionists. just watch the centrists-always ignored as not pushing policy like right/lft divide but more indicative of reality. not saying the pro-palestinian movements on liberal campus’s haven’t made a dent as they obviously have. just not as serious as being touted. {my source for those link obsessed would be mw’s own bar graph on the subject a few months back}

  13. niass2
    April 2, 2016, 6:21 pm

    If these are pro Israel Jews, what do they think Israel will be someday. An apartheid fun house? I am a liberal Jew, not a Zionist. The realization comes to a moral being that Apartheid is bad, Jews lost any moral compass they ever had as an organized group. Is it crazy that I may be pro Israel in my thinking peace is better than this situation. They are pro Israel in their minds. But what they want for Israel may not be very good for Israel. If constant conflict is so great,. they must be anti Israel.

  14. hophmi
    April 4, 2016, 11:50 am

    “The percentage of “Jews of no religion,” who, as a group, feel less attachment to Israel”

    Exactly. But when they speak as anti-Zionists, watch them talk “as Jews.”

    • eljay
      April 4, 2016, 12:06 pm

      hophmi: “The percentage of “Jews of no religion,” who, as a group, feel less attachment to Israel”

      Exactly. But when they speak as anti-Zionists, watch them talk “as Jews.” ||

      The talk “as Jews” because they are Jews. Do you have a clear set of criteria that you use to anti-Semitically nullify Jewish self-determination, or do you make it up on the fly?

    • oldgeezer
      April 4, 2016, 12:10 pm

      Why shouldn’t they hops? Haven’t we had a lifetime of indoctrination from zionists that being Jewish is not just a religion? That Jews are a people, a nation? Don’t they have every right to speak as Jews? What are the requirments for someone to speak their mind as a Jewish person?

      Why is it necessary to hold a particular political view before someone speaks as a Jew?

      And if they do practice the Jewish religion which particular flavour must they adhere to?

      And finally don’t pretend that zionists, in general, and every GoI member, in particular don’t make it quite clear that they speak as a Jew.

      Personally I find the asaJew label repugnant. zionists love to wear their bigotry as a badge of honour. Amongst theives there is no honour.

      p.s. As zionists and Israel claim it is a secular state… nonreligious Jewish people seem to have an equal, if not better, claim to talk about the only nondemocratic Jewish state.

    • Mooser
      April 4, 2016, 3:33 pm

      “Exactly. But when they speak as anti-Zionists, watch them talk “as Jews.”

      “Hophmi” why is Judaism so plagued with traitors? Why are so many Jews so disloyal to Judaism? Got any ideas on that? It’s like they just don’t want us to have anything for ourselves.
      Why does that happen, “Hophmi”

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