The low-rent bullying of the Zionist ideologue

Middle East
on 39 Comments

Imagine for a moment that you’re talking to an Italian-American about Fascist Italy (1922-1945) and how elements of that destructive and authoritarian ideology are still present in many areas of the Italian body politic. 

Then imagine that the friend shuts down the conversation because it makes him or her feel “uncomfortable”. When you ask why, the person explains that though you might not be aware of it, your critique of fascism is really a coded way of expressing a deep and pernicious hatred of all Italians and that, given the harm done to Italians in the past by such Italophobic musings, we really need to stop things right here. 

Then imagine that the person makes behind-your-back visits to your direct-work supervisor—in the case of an academic like me, his or her academic dean—to complain about the malign thought-crimes being conjured in your head and the need to enact measures to cut down on the uncomfortable “environment of hate” that these thought-crimes promoted by you are generating for everyone in the community.

I think that if a friend or a colleague acted in this way, we would rightly see them, at the very least, as someone lacking a basic understanding of the implied rules of intellectual exchange, and at the very worst, as a heedless bully. 

Amazingly, however, most of us put up with behaviors quite similar to this—or worse yet, we frequently self-censor to avoid the possibility of their onset—when it comes to talking with committed Zionists about Israel and its political and military behaviors.

In case you missed the point in the little story above, it is this: Zionism is a particular political ideology produced in a particular moment of time by a particular faction of a large and diverse ethno-religious group known as the Jews.

For most of the vast and impressive history of this collective it has not existed. It is no more essential, despite what Zionist ideologues ceaselessly tell us today, to the condition of being Jewish than, being a Fascist authoritarian was, or is, to being a true self-respecting Italian.

And despite the enormous social pressure exercised by censorious and bullying people like the ones described in the hypothetical Italian case outlined above, many Jews—indeed, it would seem an ever-increasing percentage of their numbers—do not see their identification with their people’s rich past and present as being coterminous with a blind commitment to the particular, and relatively new, racist ideology that undergirds the operation of the state of Israel today.

No other political interest group that I know in the US regularly demands, through the profligate employment of interpersonal bullying, social and professional slander, and orchestrated campaigns of ostracism, that we accept their particular ideology as per se legitimate and lovable.

Indeed, if anyone else tried to put us in this position, most of us would, quite rightly, either tell them to go to hell or laugh them out of the room.

Isn’t it time we started taking back the right and—if you consider the enormity of Israel’s dependence on US funding and diplomatic cover—the responsibility to treat Zionism for what it is?

What is that?

A passing political current that like all passing political currents is absolutely fair game for revision, critique, and yes, even outright censure, a passing political ideology that is no more congruent with the entirety of the Jewish historical experience than socialism is to the experience of being Swedish, than Francoism to the experience of being Spanish, than the ideological exaltation of invading and bombing foreign countries is to the experience of being an American today.

About Thomas S. Harrington

Thomas S. Harrington is a professor of Iberian Studies at Trinity College in Hartford, Connecticut and the author of the recently released Livin’ la Vida Barroca: American Culture in a Time of Imperial Orthodoxies.

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39 Responses

  1. Citizen
    October 12, 2017, 11:03 am

    The problem is Sheldon Adelson’s and Haim Saban’s wallets. Nothing bullies more than moneybags. There’s not a chance the US congress will ever change the US campaign finance system because that’s the source and insurance of every congress critter’s real power.

  2. Ossinev
    October 12, 2017, 1:14 pm

    Meanwhile the US (ie the Trump circus show) is quitting UNESCO to be joined in short order by the puppet master Zioland. Claims of anti – Israel bias would you believe including the failure of the organisation to acknowledge Israel`s connection to Hebron as exemplified by the “biblical” urinations and excretions which the Ziomama settlers chuck over the native Palestinians trying desperately to get on with their lives in THEIR native country.

    UNESCO will seem so much cleaner and healthier now. Oh and one less international body for the Zios to whine about.

    • festus
      October 12, 2017, 2:51 pm

      It still kind of pisses me off to watch the American government pushed around by a tiny foreign nation thousands of miles away that gives us nothing yet takes so very much.

      • Pippilin
        October 12, 2017, 4:40 pm

        The US couldn’t be pushed around without its own permission. That’s the part that pisses me off.

      • Emory Riddle
        October 12, 2017, 6:37 pm

        “The US couldn’t be pushed around without its own permission. ”

        I don’t follow that comment at all.

        What people being pushed around give their permission to have it done to them?

        Sounds like blaming the victim….which I see a lot of lately with people blaming the victims of Harvey Weinstein

      • Donald Johnson
        October 13, 2017, 12:31 am

        The US government is not a victim. It is an enabler.

  3. JosephA
    October 12, 2017, 8:32 pm

    Mr. Harrington,

    Well-writtten, well stated.

    Zionism is a terribly racist, murderous ideology that is antithetical to human values. Moreover, zionism is especially anti-Jewish because zionism (including the actions of the not-Jewish-but-zionist state of Israel) enflames and causes anti-Jewish sentiment around the world.

  4. JeffB
    October 13, 2017, 5:47 am

    @Thomas

    I don’t think your analogy holds up.

    1) Jews are not a large and diverse group. They are a small and diverse group.

    2) Your hypothetical criticism of Italy is very different than the critique of Zionism being complained about. Those types criticisms are mainstream and don’t get attacked. There is no movement that pushes for depopulating Italy and replacing it with say Chinese people.

    3) The anti-Zionist movement doesn’t happen in casual conversation. It happens as an incest public interest group that continually attempts to make Jews uncomfortable. It goes after companies that do business with Jews, it goes after Jewish business, it goes after foreign diplomats. It goes after arabs who engage in any sort of social discourse.

    There is nothing comparable to bullying attacks in France against Jewish children in your Italy analogy.
    There is nothing comparable to the desire for total hatred implied by acts like: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/lebanon-beauty-queen-israel-stripped-title-amanda-hanna-sweden-miss-lebanon-emigrant-a7908081.html

    etc…

    This isn’t about a conversation.

    • Misterioso
      October 13, 2017, 10:14 am

      Zionism is racism. Zionism is theft. Zionism is fascism.

      Bottom line: Foreign Jews had the same right to Palestine as Irish Catholics and Mexican atheists, i.e., none whatsoever. Therein lies the root of the conflict.

    • lyn117
      October 13, 2017, 2:09 pm

      “There is no movement that pushes for depopulating Italy and replacing it with say Chinese people.”

      Zionism is a movement that pushes for depopulating Palestine and replacing them with Jewish people. Granted, there’s probably some desire on the part of some victims of the Zionist/Israeli ethnic cleansing campaigns to see the immigrant Jews who committed the ethnic cleansing go back to where they came from. However, no one in the BDS movement that you’re seeking to suppress is seeking to depopulate Israel of Jews, and I don’t know any other organized movement that’s seeking to depopulate Jews from what used to be Palestine.

      “It [anti-Zionist movement] happens as an incest public interest group that continually attempts to make Jews uncomfortable. It goes after companies that do business with Jews, it goes after Jewish business, it goes after foreign diplomats. It goes after arabs who engage in any sort of social discourse.”

      No, that’s zionist b.s. No one is attempting to make Jews uncomfortable, or go after companies that do business with Jews. Sure, Jews may be uncomfortable finding out Zionists commit mass murder in their name. Lying and covering up is what Zionists do, because they want to get away with mass murder and ethnic cleansing.

      “There is nothing comparable to bullying attacks in France against Jewish children in your Italy analogy.”

      The bullying attacks aren’t made by anyone in the BDS movement. Yes, it’s a shame if Jews everywhere get blamed for what Zionists do in their name. But maybe Zionists shouldn’t commit crimes or discriminate against the non-Jewish indigenous people of the territory they claim, simply because the Zionists want the place to be as cleansed of non-Jews as they can make it.

      • JeffB
        October 13, 2017, 3:02 pm

        @lyn117

        However, no one in the BDS movement that you’re seeking to suppress is seeking to depopulate Israel of Jews

        Look at Misterioso’s comment right above yours. That’s a wonderful example.

        and I don’t know any other organized movement that’s seeking to depopulate Jews from what used to be Palestine.

        The country of Iran as a matter of state policy. Hezbollah openly and explicitly. Hamas until a few weeks ago in their charter. The organizations you all often support. Moreover the BDS movement frequently talks about the permanent illegitimacy of Jewish inhabitation. Jews born in palestine are still “colonial invaders”. Finally, BDS itself explicitly takes the position that the 650k Jews who live beyond the Green Line should be ethnically cleansed.

        No one is attempting to make Jews uncomfortable, or go after companies that do business with Jews.

        Oh really? 1952 Arab league boycott against the Federal Republic of Germany for their reparations regarding the use of slave labor. Those were Jews. And measures like that have continued to this day. For example non-Israeli citizens with Israeli stamps which include most Jews who travel or people who do business cannot enter: Lebanon, Libya (? unclear in last few years), Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Syria (? unclear if they can enforce anymore), Yemen.

        As for not going after business within the BDS movement proper. Take a look at the MW archive.

        As for harassment at a social level. There have now been thousands of complaints. Do you really think all those people are lying? I can certainly point to specific documented examples. this one doesn’t even happen to a Jew but is a wonderful example of the boycott harassment:
        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/lebanon-beauty-queen-israel-stripped-title-amanda-hanna-sweden-miss-lebanon-emigrant-a7908081.html

        The BDS movement in Concordia ended up banning Hillel (backfired but still they did go there).

        The bullying attacks aren’t made by anyone in the BDS movement.

        BDS doesn’t have formal membership. When anti-Zionist marches happen calling for a boycott of Israel that’s the BDS movement. The people who do that in “in the movement”. When they then decide to take things further they are still “in the movement”

        But maybe Zionists shouldn’t commit crimes or discriminate against the non-Jewish indigenous people of the territory they claim, simply because the Zionists want the place to be as cleansed of non-Jews as they can make it.

        Or maybe when you use hateful rhetoric you should be honest enough to admit the effect of it. If you choose a style of rhetoric whose inevitable effect is violence then you are deliberately inducing violence. Have the moral courage to admit that’s what you are doing. Netanyahu hasn’t personally shot anyone but stuff he says causes people to get shot.

      • lyn117
        October 13, 2017, 8:31 pm

        @jeffb

        The examples you cite are anti-Israel, not anti-Jew. Including Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran. You are deliberately conflating the two or maybe just utterly failing to grasp the difference. Well, Israel has made war on Palestinians (Hamas was founded to fight back), Lebanon (Hezbollah was founded to fight back) and is threatening war on Iran. What do you expect?

        I’m glad you realize Netanyahoo uses hateful rhetoric. You just use lies, for example: claiming that BDS statement that the illegal Jewish settlements in the occupied territories implies BDS wants to get rid of Jews from Israel – news flash to jeffb – the Jewish settlers are living there illegally (fact) and they aren’t in Israel (fact).

        Well, I’m done responding to your lies because you’ll just come up with another long list.

      • jon s
        October 14, 2017, 12:54 pm

        lyn 117,
        Until very recently the Hamas terrorists had a viciously anti-Jewish charter. I understand that they have a new one, so hopefully that’s a step forward. As to Iran and Hizbullah- they were responsible for the single deadliest anti-Jewish atrocity since WW2, the AMIA bombing in Buenos Aires.
        The Zionist movement didn’t push for depopulating Palestine. Mainstream Zionism sought to live in peace with the non-Jewish population, not replace it.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 14, 2017, 3:57 pm

        The Zionist movement didn’t push for depopulating Palestine.

        classic nakba denial. they cleared 500 villages jon. depopulated those villages. ethnic cleansing. to this day palestinians are still being pushed off their land.

      • Mooser
        October 14, 2017, 4:08 pm

        “depopulated those villages. ethnic cleansing.”

        If I’m not mistaken, “Jon s” lives in one of them. It’s called “Ye Olde Ancestral Landes” now. There’s a sign at the gate.

      • jon s
        October 14, 2017, 4:28 pm

        Annie,
        Absolutely not. Until 1948 there was no depopulation ,the Palestinian population was increasing nicely. In 1948 the Palestinians suffered a catastrophe (nakba), which I certainly don’t deny.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 14, 2017, 8:53 pm

        shorter jon: zionists didn’t push palestinians out til 48, therfore zionist didn’t push for depopulating Palestine, therefore i am not a nakba denier.

        iow, if i recognize the holocaust happened but don’t recognize hitler’s agency i am not a holocaust denier.

        how clarifying/not.

      • Mooser
        October 14, 2017, 4:29 pm

        “Mainstream Zionism sought to live in peace with the non-Jewish population, not replace it.”

        And all those “mainstream” Zionists had no control over the radical Zionists, completely helpless.

      • just
        October 14, 2017, 4:57 pm

        “As to Iran and Hizbullah- they were responsible for the single deadliest anti-Jewish atrocity since WW2, the AMIA bombing in Buenos Aires.”

        Please prove that…

        “The Zionist movement didn’t push for depopulating Palestine. Mainstream Zionism sought to live in peace with the non-Jewish population, not replace it.”

        Those words are lies and you should (but probably will not) be banned for your denial of the ongoing Nakba.

      • eljay
        October 14, 2017, 6:31 pm

        || jon s: … The Zionist movement didn’t push for depopulating Palestine. … ||

        If you’re going to set up a colonialist and supremacist state, you’ve basically got three options when it comes to the native population (or, as Zionists like to call it, the “demographic threat”): Subjugate, cleanse or kill.

        Cleanse happened, whether or not Zionists wanted it to happen. (Thankfully, in the words of R.W., “currently its (sic) not necessary”.) Subjugation isn’t working out as smoothly expected, so that leaves kill. Sounds horrible, but it’s nothing Zionists can’t rationalize as a(nother) “necessary evil”.

      • jon s
        October 15, 2017, 6:52 am

        Just,
        Regarding the responsibilty of Iran and Hizbullah in the horrific bombing in Buenos Aires – that was determined by the Argentine investigation.

        Again, I’ve never denied the nakba . Why not simply propose a ban on anyone with whom you disagree?

      • Mooser
        October 15, 2017, 1:39 pm

        ” Why not simply propose a ban on anyone with whom you disagree?”

        Wow, are you dumb. Where do they raise you, in hothouses?

        Think about it, “Jon s”. Why aren’t pro-Zionist commenters banned at “Mondo”? Think real, real hard.

      • Brewer
        October 15, 2017, 3:22 pm

        “As to Iran and Hizbullah- they were responsible for the single deadliest anti-Jewish atrocity since WW2, the AMIA bombing in Buenos Aires.”
        Twaddle.
        The whole Hezbollah/Iran thing was blown out of the water years ago.
        “The central piece of evidence cited in Nisman’s original 900-page arrest warrant against seven senior Iranian leaders is an alleged Aug. 14, 1993 meeting of top Iranian leaders, including both Supreme Leader Ali Khamenei and then president Hashemi Rafsanjani, at which Nisman claims the official decision was made to go ahead with the planning of the bombing of the Argentine Israelite Mutual Association (AMIA).

        But the document, recently available in English for the first time, shows that his only sources for the claim were representatives of the MEK or People’s Mujahideen of Iran. The MEK has an unsavoury history of terrorist bombings against civilian targets in Iran, as well as of serving as an Iraq-based mercenary army for Saddam Hussein’s forces during the Iran-Iraq War.”
        http://lobelog.com/indictment-of-iran-for-94-terror-bombing-relied-on-mek/

        “In an interview last May James Cheek, Clinton’s Ambassador to Argentina at the time of the bombing, told me, “To my knowledge, there was never any real evidence [of Iranian responsibility]. They never came up with anything.” The hottest lead in the case, he recalled, was an Iranian defector named Manoucher Moatamer, who “supposedly had all this information.” But Moatamer turned out to be only a dissatisfied low-ranking official without the knowledge of government decision-making that he had claimed. “We finally decided that he wasn’t credible,” Cheek recalled. Ron Goddard, then deputy chief of the US Mission in Buenos Aires, confirmed Cheek’s account. He recalled that investigators found nothing linking Iran to the bombing. “The whole Iran thing seemed kind of flimsy,” Goddard said. ”
        https://www.thenation.com/article/bushs-iranargentina-terror-frame/

    • Emory Riddle
      October 14, 2017, 12:45 pm

      There is no movement that pushes for depopulating Italy and replacing it with say Chinese people.

      But there was one for depopulating Palestine and replacing it with Ashkenazi Jews.

    • Antidote
      October 15, 2017, 12:52 pm

      @JeffB

      “There is no movement that pushes for depopulating Italy and replacing it with say Chinese people.”

      No, at least not in Italy. They are not worried about the Chinese. For that you may want to look at, say, Vancouver, or Toronto.

      Many Italians, however, do worry about migrants, immigrants and refugees doing just that. And not just in Italy. The projected winner of today’s election in Austria belongs to the far right camp, and their greatest worry is that Austrians will be replaced and displaced by foreigners in their own country.

      Austria is also a small and diverse nation. A once mighty and ethnically diverse European state and empire that was reduced to little more than Greater Vienna after WW I, blown up by inter-ethnic strife. Can you blame them that they are a bit paranoid wrt more diversity?

  5. Elizabeth Block
    October 13, 2017, 8:32 am

    If Zionists are made “uncomfortable” by criticisms of Israel … well, that’s a good thing. They should be uncomfortable.

  6. Ellen
    October 13, 2017, 10:15 pm

    Strange bullying on a personal level. Today I woke up to a personal message that someone I thought was a friend, someone I respect, was dissapointed in me and “anti Semites” like me…….blah blah.

    I did not know what to make of the comment. I think what might have prompted this was that I indicated empathy by “liking” a report on the problems of arresting and detaining juveniles in the occupied regions. Am not even sure. I never commented, did not express an opinion, but found the report to be quite thorough and well reported. In fact, I think it was an Israeli news outlet that published the report.

    My friend, or the person I know personally and thought was a friend, cut off contact in that I am not able to respond.

    I guess she strongly supports the Zionist cause. And have been thinking about this.

    What was her education, upbringing in that even an indication of empathy for young people anywhere detained and bullied by authorities, would illicit denunciation of me as an” Anti Semite?” Whatever that may mean….as I do not know and that is why I do not use the term.

    How is it that pushing a “like” button on some stupid social media would trigger such a reaction from an intelligent and educated person?

    What was she taught at home? Her youth camps? Synagogue? Women’s ZOA? Does the word Palestinian elicit hate for her? And those who show empathy for children who are Palestinian must be hurt, insulted, removed and quashed?

    Yes, it was hurtful to me. And obviously the intent. Can anyone explain this extreme reaction to any sign of empathy to the suffering of others, who happen to be Palestinian. Is empathy for others verboten if Palestinian? Does empathy or sympathy for suffering of a Palestinian make one a Judeophobe?

    Zionists, can you explain?

    • MHughes976
      October 14, 2017, 1:14 pm

      My sympathy, Ellen. I’ve had my head bitten off in a rather surprising context too. It may be troubled conscience and insecurity behind the bluster and boasting. But more than that I think it’s the immense moral stature of Israel and Zionism, supposed to be the proud answer of humanity and democracy to Nazism and tyranny, which makes even the least hint of disapproval of things Israeli, even of things that would receive instant indignation elsewhere, seem barbarous and disgusting. The likes of us find it hard to understand how far from the conventional moral centre of our own societies we are and we get occasional harsh reminders, don’t we? A long road and a dark night.

    • JeffB
      October 16, 2017, 12:04 pm

      @Ellen

      I’m going to assume the question was honest. You didn’t mention who the report was from. My guess is this also isn’t your first post on Israel. More importantly I don’t think anti-Zionist quite understand the extent to which they assume double standards when it comes to Israel. So let’s eliminate the Israel part, you are going to balk here but don’t if you want to for a moment see this from your friend’s point of view.

      Imagine in the United States if you had a bunch of say ethnic Mexicans (including some illegals) moving into a neighborhood and the local black kids would gather every week to throw stones from a hilltop at them saying this town is for Americans only and hispanics shouldn’t be there. The local and state police show up, try and stop them keep them from getting too close and sometimes arrest them. The black kids toss molotov cocktails at the cops. The cops mostly keep the people apart but of course over the course of multiple encounters because this is a violent demonstration there are shootings, beatings… Now imagine there was a report written by a black civil rights group that talked about these arrests. It showed that some kids who were there to demonstrate against the Mexicans but who weren’t throwing stones at a specific incident had gotten hurt. Many of the people arrested were juveniles and there had been procedural problems. Being arrested for tossing gasoline on fire at a cop carries a stiff penalty and those kids were suffering terribly by doing several years in jail. The report definitely came from a framework that Mexicans should be in Mexico and they had no right to be in a black community. So it saw the black kids as protesting an injustice and police as oppressors.

      On what side of that issue would you be? Your friend fundamentally rejects your frame which starts with the assumption that Jews are not entitled to the same rights as other people. If you don’t start with the frame of assuming that Jewish inhabitation is somehow illegitimate you never get to your positions reflected in that report. What she’s rejecting is your support for the idea that Jews do not have the same rights to Israel as the French do in France or the Chinese in China. Jews are never going to accept the position that they are an illegitimate people not entitled to the same rights as other people. That is the position the Palestinians reject. Including Palestinian children who engage in demonstrations. When you “like” the report you are supporting the assumptions underlying the report and those are Antisemitic in the views of every mainstream Jew right or left.

      I fully get the argument that Anti-Zionists make that somehow if they don’t oppose Jews as long as they live as a disempowered minority and make no attempt to change that they aren’t Antisemitic. Essentially 0% of Jews accept that argument. Jews don’t believe that there only rights should be those of a disempowered minority. You have an extremely narrow view of Antisemitism and thus react with shock when someone with a more expansive view calls you one. The definition most Jews use is anything short of full and total equality they would apply to any other people in a similar circumstance.

      In 1917 a non-antisemite could oppose the existence of Israel. In 2017 you can’t. Without at some point falling racist criteria about how some people are entitled to move somewhere, form governments to represent their interests… and others aren’t based purely on birth, religion, ethnicity… there is no argument for opposition to Israel. That’s not to say one can’t object to some Israeli policies and not be an antisemite. I’m a strong Zionist and I find Israel’s use of summary detention (which probably was being applied) appalling. I think those kids are entitled to a full and fair trial under the same laws that would be applied to a Jewish kid who committed similar crimes. But you notice the distinction between my position and what’s likely in that report. I’m starting with the assumption that the Israeli government is legitimate and has a bad policy. The report most likely is coming from a place that the Israeli government is illegitimate and has no right to make any policies at all. From there it denies the state the authority to have legitimate interests and then concludes that almost anything Israel does constitutes a violation of the legitimate people’s (the Palestinians) civil rights.

      If you actually do ever really want to understand why your friend was upset. Do the replacement I suggested. Turn that report into a report about black kids objecting to a Mexican settlement in their city and see how it reads. I know you object to that analogy, but she doesn’t. And your refusal to agree to that analogy is why she found your acts and statements offensive.

      • eljay
        October 16, 2017, 12:35 pm

        || JeffB: … Your friend fundamentally rejects your frame which starts with the assumption that Jews are not entitled to the same rights as other people. … ||

        People who choose to be Jewish are entitled to the same rights as people who do not choose to be Jewish. Zionist believe that Jewish comprises a right to a religion-supremacist state. That’s not a right anyone should have.

        || … What she’s rejecting is your support for the idea that Jews do not have the same rights to Israel as the French do in France or the Chinese in China. … ||

        France is for the French. China is for the Chinese. Israel should be for Israelis, but Zionists want Israel to be primarily for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews – IOW, a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”. No-one should support the idea of a supremacist state.

      • Mooser
        October 16, 2017, 12:56 pm

        “Imagine in the United States if…”

        “Jeff b”, another cracker who thinks it’s a matzoh.

      • Annie Robbins
        October 16, 2017, 1:47 pm

        I think those kids are entitled to a full and fair trial under the same laws that would be applied to a Jewish kid who committed similar crimes.

        it doesn’t matter what you think because this will never happen. and your analogy is stupid because israel is not a civil state where “the same laws that would be applied to a jewish kid” and you damn well know it. it is an ethnic state with only one ethno-religious group running the apartheid system (that grants them rights/privileges over and above others) whether it be the cops who show up, the military, the courts, the building authorities – everything. when all the authority is stacked towards one ethnic group and the other can act w/impunity running over kids w/no consequence, shooting kids in the eyes and face, snipers attacking one group and not the other, how does this fit in your american analogy? it doesn’t. you just say “police” as if they are somehow neutral and are not acting always in the benefit of just one ethnic group. there’s simply no analogous comparison no matter how you spin it because in the US the laws — unlike israeli laws which are discriminatory, especially and obviously so in occupied palestinian territory — are not supposed to be applied based on ones ethnicity (note here how we do not have a policy of bulldozing the houses of a criminals family only if that family is of a specific ethnicity and note how we do not prevent certain ethnicities of acquiring building permits for decades requiring them to pack all their family members into a house they are not allowed to expand for generations etc etc etc x 1000000’s). so no, your stupid analogy doesn’t work regardless of how much you claim people should be treated fairly under the same laws. because , as we all know, there are completely different laws applied if you are jewish. the settlers living in the same area as palestinians are not subject to a military court system. they have an army protecting them as they commit crime after crime after crime, the very same army invading palestinian homes night after night after night, arresting and imprisoning and killing little kids.

        as for your stupid claim “Jews are not entitled to the same rights as other people”, if jews had to endure even one week being ruled under military jurisdiction in the WB as palestinians do (FOR DECADES) they’d be hightailing it out of there in no time. your argument is not genuine, it is by design written by frank luntz after focus groups of americans were polled about which argument would work best on americans. it’s disingenuous and full of deceitful.

        circa 2009: HOW TO SELL AMERICANS ON ISRAELI SETTLEMENTS http://www.newsweek.com/how-sell-americans-israeli-settlements-81783

        How do you sell the American public on the idea that Israel has the right to maintain or even expand Jewish settlements in the West Bank? Be positive. Turn the issue away from settlements and toward peace. Invoke ethnic cleansing…..

        In the report, Luntz describes the “best settlement argument” as one that draws a parallel between the Arab communities in Israel and the Jewish settlers in the West Bank—and refers to the idea of evacuating Jews as racist. “The idea that anywhere that you have Palestinians there can’t be any Jews, that some areas have to be Jew-free, is a racist idea,” he suggests saying.

        there’s only one group being ethnically cleansed here, and pretending jews are the victims is a lie designed by propaganda experts, political consultants, and pollsters.

        and you’re a fake. this is fake news:

        I think those kids are entitled to a full and fair trial

        “Be positive. Turn the issue away from settlements and toward peace. Invoke ethnic cleansing…..”

        and i got a bridge to sell.

      • JeffB
        October 16, 2017, 1:58 pm

        @Eljay

        want Israel to be primarily for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews

        As you well know that’s not true. In Zionist thinking we are in a transitional phase during the ingathering of the exiles. Which is happening rather rapidly. Zionists mostly don’t want there to be many non-Israeli Jews long term.

        And moreover this has little to do with Ellen’s friend’s objection to the report. Imagine if Ellen were like you claim to be primarily concerned about state churches and was liking reports that were critical of Myanmar, Saudi Arabia and Greece all the time This would create a context where objecting to Israel’s state church wouldn’t raise any flags regarding bias. Focusing on Israel’s incessantly while being indifferent to the others OTOH is a double standard. That double standard doesn’t get defeated by brushing the other’s aside like you do with, “well I also object to those but let’s go back to talking about Israel”. If state churches are the problem Israel is far from the worst offender.

      • eljay
        October 16, 2017, 2:28 pm

        || JeffB: @Eljay

        want Israel to be primarily for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews

        As you well know that’s not true. … ||

        That’s entirely true. Every Zionist wants Israel to exist as a “Jewish State” primarily of and for Jewish Israelis and non-Israeli Jews.

        || … In Zionist thinking we are in a transitional phase during the ingathering of the exiles. … ||

        There are no Israeli “exiles”. But there are many non-Jewish Israeli refugees that cannot return to their homes and lands because no Zionist wants them in his religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

        || … Focusing on Israel’s incessantly while being indifferent to the others OTOH is a double standard. … ||

        I object to all supremacist states, no double-standard. This site deals primarily with I-P so it’s understandable that the focus is on Israel.

        If this site dealt primarily with Saudi Arabia or North Korea, the focus would understandably be on Saudi Arabia or North Korea. And your apologist counterparts in either of those countries could be counted on to:
        – accuse critics of “incessant focus” and “singling out” their (world’s only Saudi Arabian or North Korean) state; and,
        – engage in similar “murders exist so it’s OK to rape” whataboutery to justify their hateful and immoral beliefs and their state’s unjust and immoral actions.

      • oldgeezer
        October 16, 2017, 10:05 pm

        @jeffb

        The worst analogy I’ve ever encountered.

        It bears no resemblance to what is occuring in Palestine whatsoever.

        The worst part is I believe you do think it is good.

        It merely shows how depraved the zionist mindset is.

        When durban said zionism is racism I was appalled. I hadn’t become aware of the reality in the ME.

        The sad truth is that is indeed racism. Of the most foul kind. No worse than others we have seen in history but it is equally as bad as the worst we have seen in history. It is a lethal, murderous racism. And it’s adherents have no path to redemption. They have no hold on reality or morality. Not even liberal zionists who want to moan and whine while abusing millions of humans.

      • JeffB
        October 18, 2017, 12:42 pm

        @Annie

        it doesn’t matter what you think because this will never happen. and your analogy is stupid because israel is not a civil state where “the same laws that would be applied to a jewish kid” and you damn well know it.

        No actually I don’t actually damn well know it. In Green line Israel, in Jerusalem and in the Golan that is what happens. There is some discrimination for sure but there is the application of civil law to both parties and flawed but real attempts at fairness. Area-C is unique in that one ethnic group lives under a military dictatorship and another has the civil law of a democracy. That’s extremely problematic and those 150k Palestinians have every right to complain about gross violations of their civil rights and I hope they do petition for Israeli law to apply to them. But that is where the problem is and that problem is best addressed by applying civil law to all residents of Area-C. A policy that you all reject. Israel deserves some blame, but mainly it is the pro-UN crowd that is at fault for civil law not being applied in Area-C.

        The sort of unhinged response to me advocating for Palestinian rights is a good example of what Ellen’s friend finds troubling. And this is not the first time that when I do agree there is a problem with some aspect of Israeli policy and do agree to advocate for reform of that policy you immediately attack. Which is a good argument against the policy being the cause of your distaste for Israel.

        As for the rest of your response you are intermixing too many areas. When we restrict to Green Line Israel and Golan I’d reject your description as remotely accurate. I don’t like the small percentage of mixed housing. But it most certainly exists and new units are created regularly. In terms of Arab villages there about 20 that have undergone major expansion projects this decade alone with full legal approval.

        Is there still discrimination, yes there is. Is your bleak picture remotely consistent with reality, no. Israel housing laws are obnoxious even for Jews. You can see plenty of threads from USA American Jewish investors complaining about how complex construction is in Israel. You can see similar comments from Israeli Jews. Israel after many years finally got its first REITs and that took a lot of work from American Jews and Israeli partners. Arab investors from Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Kuwait … are quite experienced in REITs it would be good for everyone if they assisted Israel here in an area where they have far more experience and knowledge than Israelis do.

        But that’s exactly the kind of thing your group opposes: cooperation based on mutual respect to advance coexistence. You want to complain about the effects of hatred then stop advocating for more of it. There are constructive initiatives to fix housing problems in Israel, work with those if housing bothers you.

  7. JLewisDickerson
    October 14, 2017, 5:37 am

    RE: “No other political interest group that I know in the US regularly demands, through the profligate employment of interpersonal bullying, social and professional slander, and orchestrated campaigns of ostracism, that we accept their particular ideology as per se legitimate and lovable.” ~ Harrington

    MY COMMENT: I agree in most respects, but I think there probably are some “political interest groups” in the US that “regularly” make such demands. Think about the alt-right generally, and some of its affiliated groups and/or sub-groups.

    Why Do Members of the Alt-Right Love Polos and Khakis So Much? ~ https://www.highsnobiety.com/2017/10/12/alt-right-clothing-style/

    ■ C. VANN WOODWARD (1938):

    . . . The submissive loyalty that the leaders of the New Departure commanded in Georgia conformed to a pattern found in all Southern states after home rule was restored. “The ‘Solid South,’ ” wrote Henry Watterson in 1879, “is a reaction against proscription, attended by misgovernment, and a protest against the ever-recurring menace of Federal interference.” 25 Thus the new discipline was feudal rather than democratic. It was based upon fear—fear of the Negro menace, the scalawag menace, the Federal menace, menaces real and imaginary. As the price of protection, it demanded unquestioning allegiance. White men could not divide on lines of class interest, nor could differences over measures and candidates be expressed at the ballot box. Such matters were settled by the small clique that ran the machine. Democratic forms were observed, but their observance was entirely perfunctory. Party platforms contained nothing but such platitudes as all white men could agree upon. Incompetency and weakness in candidates had to be overlooked for the sake of white solidarity. Suspected graft in public office could not be exposed for fear of Negro domination. Ballot-box stuffing had to be tolerated when white supremacy was threatened. Such was the moral intimidation of this feudal discipline that it was widely felt that to scratch a ticket was “treason to the white race,” and to make open declaration of independence was “an effort to africanize the state.” . . . ~ from page 57 of “Tom Watson: Agrarian Rebel”, by C. Vann Woodward – https://archive.org/details/AgrarianRebel1938BiographyOfTomWatson

  8. Ossinev
    October 14, 2017, 2:03 pm

    @lyn117
    “Well, I’m done responding to your lies because you’ll just come up with another long list”
    Ditto. I gave up trying to respond to this expletive deleted quite a while ago. I do hope that others on this forum follow suit. It`s a classic “ploughing sand” scenario ergo:
    ” Netanyahu hasn’t personally shot anyone but stuff he says causes people to get shot” FFS!!
    Palestinians incite,terrorise,murder. but Zionists bless their little cotton souls merely “say stuff” !
    And no Jeffb whoever,whatever you are this is not a “response” to you. It`s an observation for lyn117.

    • amigo
      October 18, 2017, 2:22 pm

      “Ditto. I gave up trying to respond to this expletive deleted quite a while ago. I do hope that others on this forum follow suit. It`s a classic “ploughing sand” scenario ergo: “0ssinev

      Hear , hear.

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