No way to treat a child

Israel/Palestine
on 68 Comments

Imagine you are a family of four: two parents and two children aged, say, 11 and 15. You are all sleeping when at 3:45 a.m., there is a loud bang at your front door.  Before you’ve reached the door, four heavily-armed soldiers have broken it down and barged into your home with no warrant and no explanation.

One soldier–barely older than your children himself–grabs your 15-year-old son, binds his arms behind his back, and blindfolds him. Without a word to you, the soldiers haul the boy outside to their vehicle and throw him onto the floor at the back, pistol-whipping him before speeding away.

Hours later, your son’s blindfold is removed but his arms remain bound. From the moment he is kidnapped, he is not permitted to use the bathroom or given water or food. He is surrounded by foreigners speaking a language he cannot understand, and he is denied legal counsel. Your child is taken to an interrogation room and bullied into confessing a “crime”–insulting the honor of a soldier, for instance, or throwing stones at a wall. Like you, your son was born into a military occupation and under military law a soldier’s honor is worth 10 years of your son’s life.

This is a system of calculated dehumanization. Young people such as your son are held in detention for 24 hours before a military trial. If he were 18, he might wait up to 96 hours. At 15, your son might get a plea agreement of eight months; if he were 16 or 17, it might be a 10-20 year sentence. Fines run from $100 to a few thousand, and release on bail is rare under military law. A sentence could be “suspended” so that there is an early release with a 2 to 5-year probationary period in which, if your son were arrested again, in 5 years, the full 10-year sentence would go into effect.

The mathematical symmetry is in the fines: they cover the entire cost of this system, ensuring that the victims of these gross violations of due process, the rules of evidence, and international law pay for the kangaroo courts.

You and your family live in an area surrounded by armed checkpoints, soldiers, and hostile and aggressive settlers living on land in violation of international law. Children must be accompanied and protected by adults in your community as they make their way, on an unpaved path, to their school; settlers walk or drive on wide paved roads.

You might have guessed by now I’m describing what happens when living in the occupied Palestinian territory. Since 1967, Israel has operated separate legal systems in the same territory: in the occupied West Bank, Israeli settlers are subject to a civilian and criminal legal system; Palestinians live under military law. Israel applies criminal law to children living in East Jerusalem. No Israeli child comes into contact with military courts.

Between 50 and 60 percent of Palestinian children that have been detained in the West Bank were transferred to a prison in Israel, despite the Geneva Conventions prohibiting the transfer of an occupied civilian population.

When the occupation began in 1967, military law was instituted and applied to Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza. Palestinians have no say in the election of lawmakers in this context; over 1800 military laws apply to those occupied.

Under Military Order 1651, the “security provisions” law, throwing a stone at the Israeli-built separation wall is a crime that carries up to a 10-year sentence. Twenty-year maximum sentences are implemented for throwing stones at cars but Order 1651 is a catch-all that justifies the arrest of anyone at any time for anything; criminal conduct is thus created, and then tried in military courts with a prosecution rate of 99.74%.

Military occupation means human rights are denied and all people must have human rights: Palestinians are denied this because of the illegal occupation. Somehow, the illegality of this occupation–not to mention the fundamentally ethnocratic nature of the Israeli state and the ethnic cleansing it has executed since 1948 including massacres, home demolitions and the imposition of military law–is not recognized by the Canadian government in practice, though on paper, Canada does not recognize the areas Israel has illegally annexed and no country in the world recognizes the sovereignty Israel tries to claim for making Jerusalem its capital city.

Through its free trade pact with Israel, alongside parliamentary denunciations of peaceful calls to boycott the country and the government’s refusal even to mark products produced on illegal settlements, the Canadian government colludes in the arrest and torture of approximately 700 Palestinian children a year, the application of military laws, a half-century of illegal occupation, the eviction of Palestinians from the homes in which their families have lived for generations, and a settler-colonial system of apartheid that underwrites these crimes.

Through its statements, political endorsements, business deals, and “motions” in Parliament, the Canadian government has made it clear that it does not believe people of my ethnicity deserve human rights.

This position is the result of a combination of bowing to intense pressure from lobbyists for Israel, geopolitical interests, propaganda from Israel appearing in the mainstream media, threats, and racism; in addition to profound ignorance of the plight of Palestinians as an indigenous population that had been terrorized for several years prior to the signing of the disastrous Balfour Declaration in 1917, of which Canada is a signatory.

According to a recently conducted poll, most Canadians do not support this.

The information I’ve narrated above of the treatment of Palestinian children comes from a briefing I attended recently in Toronto, run by Defense for Children International-Palestine (DCIP), a Ramallah-based non-governmental organization now launching its “No Way to Treat a Child” campaign in Canada. The campaign was co-founded and is co-run by the American Friends Service Committee (AFSC). 

For 25 years, DCIP has investigated, documented, and sought accountability for grave human rights violations against children; held Israeli and Palestinian authorities accountable to universal human rights principles, and advocated at the international and national levels to advance access to justice and protection for children. Direct legal aid is provided for children in distress.

DCIP’s Ayed Abu Eqtaish presented the group’s findings last year in London, UK. Here’s an excerpt from Juliana Farha’s Mondoweiss article on that briefing, followed by “My Name is Saleh,” a 5-minute film I urge you to watch.

“The child is usually a boy. He is occasionally beaten in front of his family. He is routinely removed from the West Bank to Israel, in violation of the Geneva Conventions. He is interrogated without his parents present. He signs a confession in Hebrew, a language he doesn’t know. Sometimes he is tortured, although less often these days.

Ayed tells us that physical torture of Palestinian children was common a few years ago, but interrogators observed that those being tortured often call up reserves of strength to resist, rendering it counter-productive. Instead, they discovered, psychological terror can be more effective: threatening to arrest the child’s family members, for instance, or to revoke his father’s work permit.

We learned that depriving the child of human contact has also proved fruitful. In fact, DCI-Palestine has recorded 78 cases of Palestinian children in solitary confinement, including one kid who was held for 45 days. Afterwards, Ayed said, these children are grateful for anyone who talks to them, will make the interrogator their ‘friend’, will say whatever it takes not to be alone again, not to receive meals through a hole in the wall. For the child in solitary confinement, a voice breaching the silence transcends the human, becomes a blessing.”

My Name is Saleh (5 mins)

A month after the film was made Saleh was assaulted by a group of adult male settlers as he played in the snow with his friends. He was struck on the arm with a spiked metal object and required hospital treatment. On his release, he was arrested on a charge of throwing a snowball at a soldier. He was held for two hours without an accompanying adult. He was then released.

For more information, watch DCIP’s “Detaining Dreams” a 20-minute documentary available on YouTube; or see DCIP’s social media and website for the Canadian campaign, “No Way to Treat a Child.”

Hold the perpetrators accountable: ask your MP to stop endorsing this brutality and violation of international law, or tell Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Minister of Foreign Affairs Chrystia Freeland to stop Canadian complicity:

http://www.nwttac.canada.dci-palestine.org/petition_stop_israeli_military_detention

Last week, U.S. Congresswoman Betty McCollum (D-MN) and nine co-sponsors introduced the “Promoting Human Rights by Ending Israeli Military Detention of Palestinian Children” Act, which aims to prevent U.S. tax dollars to Israel being used to abuse and imprison Palestinian children in the military court system. To encourage your Representative to support this bill, follow this link:

http://org.salsalabs.com/o/641/p/dia/action4/common/public/?action_KEY=22528

About Nyla Matuk

Nyla Matuk is a Canadian poet and the author of Sumptuary Laws (2012) and Stranger (2016).

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68 Responses

  1. eljay
    November 22, 2017, 3:12 pm

    … This is a system of calculated dehumanization. …

    It’s just one of many “necessary evils” hardy Zionists* are willing to do for the greater glory of “Jewish State”.
    _________________
    (*The less-hardy “liberal Zionist” types just “hold their noses” and offer support.)

  2. Jack Green
    November 22, 2017, 4:36 pm

    eljay

    There wouldn’t be an occupation if Palestinians had not attacked Israel and
    the occupation wouldn’t have lasted this long if Palestinians were willing to live in peace with Israel.

    • JosephA
      November 22, 2017, 10:36 pm

      Jack,

      Stop trying to defend human rights violations and racist colonialists – it’s rather uncouth. There’s no defense for these crimes against humanity.

      Shame on you.

    • Kay24
      November 23, 2017, 6:50 am

      I hope you realize that propaganda is not working anymore. Blaming the victims has it’s limits.

      Kindly explain to us how the strongest (and ruthless) military in the Middle East, known for being a top weapons manufacturer, gets the latest deadly weapons, and jet fighters, from the US, and has the support of the US, kills thousands of Palestinians when it “mows the lawn” is so terrified, of UNARMED civilians, that resist the occupation WITH STONES AND ROCKETS THAT HARDLY HITS THEIR TARGET.

      Do explain why Israel who has held these poor people under occupation for decades, controls their movements, is not so afraid of the Palestinians to STOP STEALING THEIR
      LANDS?

      According to the zionist narrative, the Palestinians do not want live in peace, they enjoy being occupied, children kidnapped and thrown in jail, have their lands stolen, have to go through checkpoints, have their farms destroyed, homes bulldozed, olive trees stolen, and precision bombs being sent to their homes, wiping out entire families. Pro occupiers sound so ridiculous.

      Give us a break, and stop blaming the victims of Israel’s brutality..

      • Jack Green
        November 23, 2017, 11:24 pm

        Kay24

        2,000 Israelis have been killed or injured by rockets.

        Eitan Hirsch, a ballistics expert with the Israeli Defense Forces, recently did a series of calculations showing that a typical-size stone hurled by an expert slinger at a distance of thirty-five meters would have hit Goliath’s head with a velocity of thirty-four meters per second—more than enough to penetrate his skull and render him unconscious or dead. In terms of stopping power, that is equivalent to a fair-size modern handgun. “

        https://www.willingboroschools.org/cms/lib/NJ01001192/Centricity/Domain/245/david-and-goliath.pdf

      • John O
        November 24, 2017, 9:10 am

        @Jack Green

        Good to see you equate modern Palestinians with David and Israel with Goliath.

        A stone from a slingshot hurled by an expert, as you describe, would hit its target with the same force as the cricket ball that killed up-and-coming Australian cricketer Phillip Hughes three years ago. No surprise there and it hardly needs a ballistics expert to tell us what millions of cricketers (and no doubt baseball players also) know.

        Of course, if Goliath had been wearing a kevlar helmet and body armour, and carrying an M-16, the odds on who’d have won the fight would have been very different.

      • RoHa
        November 24, 2017, 9:59 am

        Actually, Jack is referring to a sling, as used by David.

        https://www.motherearthnews.com/diy/making-and-using-a-venerable-hand-sling

        Not a catapult/slingshot as used by the real Dennis the Menace and Bart Simpson.

        https://theoriginaltreeswing.com/products/old-fashioned-slingshot

        (In case you are not sure, this is the real Dennis.

        https://www.beano.com/posts/20-questions-with-dennis-the-menace )

      • Kay24
        November 24, 2017, 11:51 am

        Jack Green. I write of only those killed. In that case, thousand more Palestinians must have been injured by Israel precision bombs, and deadly weapons. Ah, the zionists sure know how to exaggerate when it comes to their people, and downplay it, or make silly justifications, when it comes to the real victims, the Palestinians.

        “According to B’Tselem “from June 2004 to 23 July 2014, 26 Israeli civilians (four of them minors) and two foreign nationals were killed in Israel by Palestinian rocket and mortar fire. In addition, five soldiers were killed, three in Israel and two in the Gaza Strip.”

      • Mooser
        November 24, 2017, 1:40 pm

        “Eitan Hirsch, a ballistics…/…unconscious or dead.”

        So big Goliath, he lay down and dieth? It ain’t necessarily so.

    • Norman Hunter
      November 23, 2017, 9:42 am

      Jack Green

      Surely you cannot believe the BS you have written! It is one thing to defend assaulting and killing children and quite another to justify those inhumane treatments by rewriting history to your advantage.

    • Misterioso
      November 23, 2017, 10:12 am

      @Jack Green

      Sigh.
      “There wouldn’t be an occupation if Palestinians had not attacked Israel…”

      Reality:

      Israel started the 1967 war, not the Palestinians.

      To wit:
      Prime Minister Menachem Begin, former Minister without portfolio in PM Levi Eshkol’s cabinet, while addressing Israel’s National Defence College on 8 August 1982: “In June, 1967, we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai did not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.” (New York Times, 21 August 1982)

      Meir Amit, chief of Israel’s Mossad: “Egypt was not ready for a war and Nasser did not want a war.” (Dr. Norman Finkelstein, Image and Reality)

      Israeli Chief of Staff Rabin: “I do not believe that Nasser wanted war. The two divisions which he sent into Sinai on 14 May would not have been enough to unleash an offensive against Israel. He knew it and we knew it.” (Le Monde, 25 February, 1968)

      Prime Minister Eshkol: “The Egyptian layout in the Sinai and the general military buildup there testified to a military defensive Egyptian set-up south of Israel.” (Yediot Aharonot, l8 October 1967)

      Robert McNamara, U.S. Secretary of Defence: “Three separate intelligence groups had looked carefully into the matter [and] it was our best judgment that a UAR attack was not imminent.” (The Vantage Point, Lyndon Johnson, p. 293)

      An article published in the New York Times (4 June 1967) just hours before Israel attacked notes that Major General Indar Jit Rikhye, Commander of UNEF in the Middle East, “who toured the Egyptian front, confirms that Egyptian troops were not poised for an offensive.”

      On May 26, in reply to Israel’s Foreign Minister Abba Eban’s assertion that according to Israeli intelligence, “an Egyptian and Syrian attack is imminent,” Secretary of State Dean Rusk dismissed the claim and assured Eban that Israel faced no threat of attack from Egypt. On the same day, during a meeting at the Pentagon, Eban was also told by Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara and his aides that “…Egyptian forces were not in an aggressive posture and that Israel was not opening itself to peril by not attacking immediately. The contrary was true, Eban was told.” (Donald Neff, Warriors for Jerusalem, pp. 140-41)

      BTW, as the UN Emergency Force (UNEF) Commander, Major General Idar Jit Rikhye, revealed, Nasser was not enforcing the blockade of the Tiran straits: “[The Egyptian] navy had searched a couple of ships after the establishment of the blockade and thereafter relaxed its implementation.” (Norman Finkelstein, Image and Reality, p. 139)

      Furthermore: According to Patrick Seale, highly regarded historian and journalist, Israel had been meticulously preparing for another war against the Arabs since its 1956 invasion of Egypt: “In the decade since the Suez campaign Israel had built up forces that could move fast and hit hard: mobile armoured units able to cover long distances, mechanized infantry, heliborne and naval paratroopers for use behind enemy lines, and above all an air force of Mirage and Super-Mystere interceptors and Mystere fighter-bombers of unchallenged superiority. The main lesson Israel had learned from the [1956] Suez war was the importance of air dominance not only to neutralize Arab air forces but also for use as flying artillery against infantry and tanks.” (Patrick Seale, Asad…, p. 117)

      Ezer Weizman, former commander of Israel’s Air Force confirmed in his memoirs that Israel spent years meticulously planning the attack against Egypt: “For five years I had been talking of this operation, explaining it, hatching it, dreaming of it, manufacturing it link by link, training men to carry it out.” Recalling how he felt at 7:30 A.M. on 5 June 1967, Weizman wrote: “Now in a quarter of an hour, we would know if it was only a dream or whether it would come true….” (Donald Neff, Warriors for Jerusalem…, p. 202

      “The occupation wouldn’t have lasted this long if Palestinians were willing to live in peace with Israel.”

      Reality:

      In 1988, the PLO recognized Israel as a sovereign state within the borders of the 1947 recommendatory only UNGA Partition Plan, Res. 181, which violated the terms of the British Class A Mandate for Palestine and the Atlantic Charter, was never adopted by the UNSC and was grossly unfair to the indigenous Palestinian Arab inhabitants.

      By signing the 1993 Oslo Accords, the PLO accepted UNSC Res. 242 and thereby agreed to recognize a sovereign Israel within the 1949 armistice lines, i.e., as of 4 June 1967 – 78% of mandate Palestine.

      The PLO also agreed to the US/EU/UN supported 2002 Arab League Beirut Summit Peace Initiative, which offers Israel full recognition as a sovereign state (per UNSC Res. 242, i.e., within its June 4/67 boundaries with possible minor, equal and mutually agreed land swaps), exchange of ambassadors, trade, tourism, etc., if Israel complies with international law (e.g., the UN Charter, The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Fourth Geneva Convention and the Rome Statute.) Fully aware of Israel’s demographic concerns, the Beirut initiative does not demand the return of all Palestinian refugees. In accordance with Israel’s pledge given to the UNGA in 1949 and by signing the 1949 Lausanne Peace Conference Protocol to abide by UNGA Res. 194 regarding the then 800,000 Palestinian refugees as a precondition for admittance to the UN (after being rejected twice), the Arab League’s Initiative “calls upon Israel to affirm” that it agrees to help pursue the “achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem…”

      Along with all Arab states and the PLO, Hezbollah and Iran have also accepted the Arab League’s 2002 Beirut Summit Peace Initiative. (In its revised Charter, April, 2017, Hamas agreed to a Palestinian state based on the 4 June 1967 borders. Unfortunately, but not surprisingly, Israel promptly rejected the Hamas overture instead of using it to open a dialogue.)

      Regrettably, then Israeli PM Ariel Sharon summarily dismissed the Arab League’s peace overture, as Israel did in 2008 and thereafter.

      As for the much touted 2000 Camp David Summit, working in tandem, Barak and Clinton tried to shove a very bad deal down Arafat’s throat. It could only be rejected. Suffice to quote Shlomo Ben-Ami, then Israel’s foreign minister and lead negotiator at Camp David: “Camp David was not the missed opportunity for the Palestinians, and if I were a Palestinian I would have rejected Camp David, as well.” (National Public Radio, 14 February 2006.)

      The “offer” made in 2008 by then Israeli PM Ehud Olmert was never seen as serious because it lacked cabinet approval, he was under indictment with only a few weeks left in office, had a 6% favorable rating, and, therefore, couldn’t have closed the deal, even if the Palestinians had accepted it. (Olmert was imprisoned.)

      Unfortunately, Israel’s response to every peace overture from the Palestinians and Arab states, has been an escalation of illegal settlement construction and dispossession/oppression in illegally occupied Palestinian (and other Arab) lands.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        November 23, 2017, 10:34 am

        “The video contains pictures of different Palestinian cities, before the creation of the state of Israel by the Zionists in 1948..”

      • Kay24
        November 23, 2017, 3:06 pm

        Kaisa, I have seen pictures of the Palestinian territories before the poison crept in, and it looked a wonderful place, with a people flourishing, and there were pictures of thriving farms, and a very cultured people. It is very sad, that other human beings can use their might, and take advantage of the fact that there are others supporting them, to inflict pain, and to viciously take all that away. When one looks at the shrinking map of Palestine, the story is obvious. Had this been done to the zionists, there would be outrage from all the western nations that support them.

      • Kaisa of Finland
        November 23, 2017, 4:26 pm

        Kay24:

        And when you look at those pictures and then today, you ask, like honestly, how the h*** was it let to become like this?? (And yes, all kinds of reasons may be given, but nothing there could ever be good enough to be acceptable..)

      • Jack Green
        November 23, 2017, 11:27 pm

        Misterioso

        The Six Day War was just a continuation of the 1956 war.
        Israel withdrew from the Sinai in 1956 with the proviso that the Straits of Tiran remain open to Israel. Egypt’s closing the Straits broke the cease fire.

      • John O
        November 24, 2017, 9:19 am

        @Jack Green

        Israel started the 1956 war as well (aided by Britain and France, and stopped by President Eisenhower).

      • Jerry Hirsch
        November 25, 2017, 5:57 pm

        Mistierioso, there are some critical realities you failed to include in your comment. The problem with short quotations is they frequently take their meaning out of context. Menachem Begin had much more to add to his recollection of the beginning of the six day war.

        “This was a war of self-defense in the noblest sense of the term. The Government of National Unity then established decided unanimously: we will take the initiative and attack the enemy, drive him back, and thus assure the security of Israel and the future of the nation.”

        “The conclusion – both on the basis of the relations between states and on the basis of our national experience – is that there is no divine mandate to go to war only if there is no alternative. There is no moral imperative that a nation must, or is entitled to, fight only when its back is to the sea, or to the abyss. Such a war may avert tragedy, if not a Holocaust, for any nation; but it causes it terrible loss of life.

        Quite the opposite. A free, sovereign nation, which hates war and loves peace, and which is concerned about its security, must create the conditions under which war, if there is a need for it, will not be for lack of alternative. The conditions much be such – and their creation depends upon man’s reason and his actions – that the price of victory will be few casualties, not many.”

        http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/foreignpolicy/mfadocuments/yearbook6/pages/55%20address%20by%20prime%20minister%20begin%20at%20the%20national.aspx

        Finkelstein’s quote from his book also leaves out some key facts. Not just some oil supplies were cut, but 90‰ of Israel’s oil supply was blocked by Egypt at the Straits of Tiran. This forced oil shipments to be routed around the horn of Africa and back in through the Mediterranean Sea. The infrastructure to handle nine times the normal oil transfer was not in place in Haifa.

        Let me put the beginning of this war in proper perspective. Egypt had literally taken Israel by its economic testicles (the blockade of oil) and squeezed hard. That it loosened it’s grip slightly (according to Finkelstein) does not mean it let go.
        Neither do you mention Egypt had nearly 2/3rds of it’s forces in the Sinai. This clenching of Egypt’s military fists coupled with their grip on Israel’s testicles may not have been an existential threat that day, but it certainly made it necessary for Israel to extricate themselves from this intolerable situation.

        To paraphrase Begin, a nation need not wait till a knife is put to their throat to act in self defense, it’s far wiser to act before the knife is drawn back and prevent it’s fatal plunge.

      • Keith
        November 25, 2017, 8:14 pm

        JERRY HIRSCH- “Not just some oil supplies were cut, but 90‰ of Israel’s oil supply was blocked by Egypt at the Straits of Tiran.”

        Here you go again with the same Zionist propaganda. Please provide some quotes/links to back up your unsupported assertion about 90% of Israel’s oil supply being blocked. We have covered this before with me challenging you and you not responding. For starters, no Israeli flagged ships passed through the Straits of Tiran during the previous 2.5 years. And the notion that Israel would allow themselves to be so vulnerable is preposterous. I am going to quote some of what I said to you on June 2nd:

        ” Common sense tells us that Israel would never allow itself to become vulnerable to an Egyptian cut-off of its oil supply. In actuality, no shipments were stopped. Had they been, the shipments could have been re-routed through Haifa. Besides, the US virtually guarantees Israeli access to oil.”

      • Keith
        November 25, 2017, 8:28 pm

        JERRY HIRSCH- “… a nation need not wait till a knife is put to their throat to act in self defense, it’s far wiser to act before the knife is drawn back and prevent it’s fatal plunge.”

        Unbelievable! So soon after advocating for the Nazi concept of a Jewish race (as evidenced by DNA studies) you now are taking up Hitler’s dagger to the heart analogy! I think that perhaps Yossi Gurvitz may be describing you in his current article on Tzipi Hotovely.

        “…what we call here a Judeo-Nazi: someone who uses extreme Orthodox and Zionist views (generally, fused together) to promote a Jewish-oriented neo-Nazi agenda.”

      • oldgeezer
        November 26, 2017, 12:30 am

        @Keith

        I often disagree. I often ignore your posts due to that disagreement. In the case of jerry you are spot on. It’s mind blowing. And sadly he is typical of Israelis if their elected officials are a valid method of assessment.
        Scary… people like that need to be put away.

  3. Mayhem
    November 22, 2017, 7:51 pm

    Even in Australia the government is talking about introducing anti-terror plans that could see 10-year-olds held without charge. These measures relating to children are not indicative of brutal regimes rather the growth of terror-related activities amongst young people. In the case of Palestinian children they are egged on by an education system that encourages incitement and violence.

    • eljay
      November 23, 2017, 8:32 am

      || Mayhem: Even in Australia the government is talking about introducing anti-terror plans that could see 10-year-olds held without charge. … ||

      And the Law Council has rightly referred to these plans as an “extraordinarily draconian” measure.

      The fact remains that Australia isn’t militarily-occupying the West Bank, operating separate legal systems in it, subjecting its non-Jewish inhabitants to military rule and transferring detained children to prisons in Australia in contravention of Geneva Conventions prohibiting the transfer of an occupied civilian population.

      Zionists – like other defenders of injustice and immorality – suffer terribly from Whataboutism.

      • Jack Green
        November 24, 2017, 11:54 am

        John O

        The 1956 war was a continuation of the 1948 war. Egypt violated the armistice by sponsoring raids against Israel.

      • RoHa
        November 24, 2017, 8:32 pm

        Israel ran Operation Susannah against Egypt in 1954.

      • oldgeezer
        November 26, 2017, 12:32 am

        Whereas in Isrsel the punishment is seen as insufficient. It is more appropriate to kill on the spot or let them bleed out. There is no equivalency between Israel and any western society. It is a crime gang and shod be treated as such.

      • oldgeezer
        November 26, 2017, 12:34 am

        @jack

        As usual you were dead wrong. Do you enjoy himiliating yourself? You do it very well if that’s any consolation.

    • amigo
      November 23, 2017, 12:05 pm

      “In the case of Palestinian children they are egged on by an education system that encourages incitement and violence “mayhem

      And here we have the Israeli education system teaching the values of zionism to their children.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVJECM_FZx8

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5P4MLlGF_w

      • Kay24
        November 24, 2017, 6:40 am

        Good example Amigo. They consistently point fingers at the Palestinians for things they themselves are guilty of. It must be hard to keep defending the indefensible.

      • Mayhem
        November 25, 2017, 5:18 pm

        @amigo you can’t compare state-sponsored incitement and terrorism with reactive, nationalistic behaviour from Israeli fringe groups. Furthermore the videos you provide are nothing more than propaganda that fail totally to appreciate the real situation. This article by Lisa Goldman ‘Putting Things into Perspective’ sums it up nicely:

        “The little girls shown drawing with felt markers on the tank missiles are residents of Kiryat Shmona, which is right on the border with Lebanon. And when I say “on the border,” I’m not kidding; there’s little more space between their town and Southern Lebanon than there is between the back gardens of neighbouring houses in a wealthy American suburb.

        No, how close is it really?

        Well, there’s a famous story in Israel, from the time when the Israeli army occupied Southern Lebanon: a group of soldiers stationed inside southern Lebanon used their mobile phones to order pizza from Kiryat Shmona and have it delivered to the fence that separates the two countries.

        Anyway.

        Kiryat Shmona has been under constant bombardment from South Lebanon since the first day of the conflict. It was a ghost town, explained Shelly. There was not a single person on the streets and all the businesses were closed. The residents who had friends, family or money for alternate housing out of missile range had left, leaving behind the few who had neither the funds nor connections that would allow them to escape the missiles crashing and booming on their town day and night. The noise was terrifying, people were dying outside, the kids were scared out of their minds and they had been told over and over that some man named Nasrallah was responsible for their having to cower underground for days on end.

        On the day that photo was taken, the girls had emerged from the underground bomb shelters for the first time in five days. A new army unit had just arrived in the town and was preparing to shell the area across the border. The unit attracted the attention of twelve photojournalists – Israeli and foreign. The girls and their families gathered around to check out the big attraction in the small town – foreigners. They were relieved and probably a little giddy at being outside in the fresh air for the first time in days. They were probably happy to talk to people. And they enjoyed the attention of the photographers.

        Apparently one or some of the parents wrote messages in Hebrew and English on the tank shells to Nasrallah. “To Nasrallah with love,” they wrote to the man whose name was for them a devilish image on television – the man who mockingly told Israelis, via speeches that were broadcast on Al Manar and Israeli television, that Hezbollah was preparing to launch even more missiles at them. That he was happy they were suffering.”

        @amigo, I suggest you go read the rest of the article and think a little bit next time before you chuck propaganda at us.

      • Mooser
        November 25, 2017, 5:36 pm

        “Mayhem” bragging about how Israelis use their children as “tethered goats” is not going to get you any points.

      • oldgeezer
        November 26, 2017, 12:38 am

        @mayjem

        The only objective study i have see found both groups liable for incitement in edicational materials.

        The state sponsored incitement is from Israel. You can’t equate that with the reactive behaviour of the millions of people they oppress daily. Israel is not a victim. It is the power in the conflict. It oppresses. It kills eith impunity and immunity. It is a criminal outlaw state. It’s leaders should be in the Hague and it’s supporters should be stripped of all position and power.

      • Mayhem
        November 29, 2017, 8:22 pm

        @oldgeezer, it was mandated on the PA in the Oslo Accords to address the key issue of the incitement propagated via their education system. There is no equivalence with the education system in Israel which does present information about the history and situation with the Palestinians if you bother to read the IMPACT-se report. In fact the PA is in breach of international law for not adhering to the Oslo accords on this.

      • oldgeezer
        November 30, 2017, 8:19 am

        @Mayhem

        Impact se would appear to largely be another zionist propaganda operation. A 2013 US funded study conducted by Yale found incitement in the educational materials of both sides and totally undercuts the claims made by that group. I’m not claiming it is a propaganda front but it certainly appears to be one given it’s unhealthy focus on groups that are deemed by the current Israeli gov to be enemies (which is pretty much anyone who isn’t a supportive fascist).

        Similar reports done by other groups on the education materials used by UNRWA have been shown to be similarly inaccurate and overblown.

        And yes Israel does have an incitement problem as any objective study has shown.

        Spare me the quip about the PA being in violation of international law. They can’t hold a candle to the lengthy list of violations perpetrated by the outlaw regime in Israel.

    • Jack Green
      November 24, 2017, 8:38 pm

      Kay24

      Palestinians have been oppressing Jews for centuries.

      In 1839, the British consul, William Young, said that the poor Jew in Jerusalem…lives from day to day in terror of his life….Young attributed the plight of the Jew in Jerusalem to “the blind hatred and ignorant prejudice of a fanatical populace,”

      JEWS IN JERUSALEM.
      New York Times December 29, 1878
      Crowded together in the worst lodgings, or in the dark cellars under a synagogue building, without food, fuel, or water –even water at Jerusalem being a commodity of price – numbers died of starvation and various diseases, while others went raving mad. Those who could labor were denied employment by the bigotry of the Mussulmans and of the Oriental Christians.

      Notice the date. This was before the first Zionists arrived in Palestine. Notice the word bigotry.

  4. Ossinev
    November 23, 2017, 6:52 am

    @Mayhem
    “terror related activities” = throwing stones at heavily armed soldiers who are occupying their lands. OMG the most moral must be quaking in their boots everytime they go out “on patrol” in their armored jeeps. Oh the terror the terror the terror . Nightmares about pebbles falling from the sky . Sleepless nights anti depressants one to one counselling etc etc It`s only their world leading morality which keeps them insane.

    • Jack Green
      November 23, 2017, 10:11 am

      Ossinev

      “Hamas Rockets Traumatize Israeli Children”

      http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/blog/alan-johnson/hamas-rockets-traumatize-israeli-children

      Study: Most Sderot Kids Exhibit Post-traumatic Stress Symptoms

      http://www.haaretz.com/news/study-most-sderot-kids-exhibit-post-traumatic-stress-symptoms-1.237438

      Ynetnews News – 70% of Sderot kids traumatized

      http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4093281,00.html

      The emotional toll of conflict on Israeli children
      – Israel Ministry of …

      mfa.gov.il/MFA/AboutIsrael/Spotlight/…/Emotional-toll-of-conflict-15-July-2014.asp…

      Unseen Scars of War: Psychological Consequences of the Hamas Attacks on the Israeli Civilian Population

      http://jcpa.org/article/unseen-scars-of-war-psychological-consequences/

      Psychological trauma growing in Sderot

      – Jewlicious THE Jewish Blog
      jewlicious.com/2008/11/psychological-trauma-growing-in-sderot/

      Psyches scarred by constant trauma as Gaza’s rockets fall on Sderot …

      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/…by…trauma/story-e6frg6z6-1226518303961

      • Misterioso
        November 23, 2017, 10:42 am

        @Jack Green

        Re your response to Ossinev.

        To be brief:

        Video: ‘Stone Cold Justice’ on Israel’s torture of Palestinian children

        A film produced by a group of Australian journalists has sparked an international outcry against Israel after it explicitly detailed Tel Aviv’s use of torture against Palestinian children.

        The film, titled ‘Stone Cold Justice’ documents how Palestinian children, who have been arrested and detained by Israeli forces, are subjected to physical abuse, torture and forced into false confessions and pushed into gathering intelligence on Palestinian activists. Australia’s foreign minister Julie Bishop has spoken out against Israeli’s use of torture stating that ‘I am deeply concerned by allegations of the mistreatment of Palestinian children,’ Israel’s Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor has described the human rights abuses documented in the film as ‘intolerable.’ But rights groups have slammed this statement, saying that the Israelis are doing nothing to change Tel Aviv’s policy to torture Palestinian children.

        Last year a report by the United Nations International Emergency Children’s Fund or UNICEF concluded that Palestinian children are often targeted in night arrests and raids of their homes, threatened with death and subjected to physical violence, solitary confinement and sexual assault. The film Stone Cold Justice has sparked an international outcry about Israel’s treatment of children in Israeli jails. However, rights groups have criticized Tel Aviv for not doing anything to create a policy that protects Palestinian children against arbitrary arrest and torture.

        Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uDPeeD_RPk
        Precarious Childhood: Arrests of Jerusalemite Children
        This film addresses the process of arrest, interrogation, and the policy of house arrest and their effects on children. The film provides accounts of children who were arrested in order to highlight a larger policy of persecution and targeting of Palestinian children in Jerusalem.

        Re: The Gaza Strip
        Video: http://obliteratedfamilies.com/en/story/shuheibar/

        The International Committee of the Red Cross: “The whole of Gaza’s civilian population is being punished for acts for which they bear no responsibility. The closure therefore constitutes a collective punishment imposed in clear violation of Israel’s obligations under international humanitarian law. The Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949, ratified by Israel, bans collective punishment of a civilian population.”

        “In practice, Gaza has become a huge, let me be blunt, concentration camp for right now 1, 800,000 people” – Amira Hass, 2015 correspondent for Haaretz, speaking at the Forum for Scholars and Publics at Duke University.

        Dov Weisglass, PM Ariel Sharon’s senior adviser:
        “‘The significance of the [then proposed] disengagement plan [implemented in 2005] is the freezing of the peace process,’ Prime Minister Ariel Sharon’s senior adviser Dov Weisglass has told Ha’aretz. ‘And when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem. Effectively, this whole package called the Palestinian state, with all that it entails, has been removed indefinitely from our agenda….’ Weisglass, who was one of the initiators of the disengagement plan, was speaking in an interview with Ha’aretz for the Friday Magazine. ‘The disengagement is actually formaldehyde,’ he said. ‘It supplies the amount of formaldehyde that is necessary so there will not be a political process with the Palestinians.’” (Top PM Aide: Gaza Plan Aims to Freeze the Peace Process, Ha’aretz, October 6, 2004)

        Israeli journalist Bradley Burston aptly sums up the horrors Israel inflicts on Palestinian adults and children in the illegally occupied West Bank and East Jerusalem:
        “Occupation is Slavery”
        EXCERPT:
        “In the name of occupation, generation after generation of Palestinians have been treated as property. They can be moved at will, shackled at will, tortured at will, have their families separated at will. They can be denied the right to vote, to own property, to meet or speak to family and friends. They can be hounded or even shot dead by their masters, who claim their position by biblical right, and also use them to build and work on the plantations the toilers cannot themselves ever hope to own. The masters dehumanize them, call them by the names of beasts.” (Haaretz, Feb. 26/13)

      • echinococcus
        November 23, 2017, 11:12 am

        You don’t want to be scared by some fireworks, Buster? Nobody forced you to go to Palestine. You didn’t have to go there. “Psychological trauma” and “scarred psyche” is the least that should happen to you invaders and thieves.

      • Stephen Shenfield
        November 23, 2017, 12:08 pm

        Jack Green: Whenever someone argues substantively against something you’ve said you ignore the substance of their argument and change the subject. Misterioso replies at great length to your assertion that Palestinians attacked Israel in 1967, adducing numerous facts and sources, but you completely ignore everything he says. Then you respond to a comment on heavily armed soldiers facing pebbles by talking about children and rockets. There are certain rules of civilized debate like continuing to discuss an important issue until it is resolved and not evading an issue by changing the subject when you are losing the argument. Arguing with someone like you who defies these rules is frustrating and futile and I don’t think we should do it. You should be ignored until you agree to argue in a fair and civilized manner.

      • amigo
        November 23, 2017, 12:09 pm

        Jack green , sderot is occupied territory , as it is outside Israel,s self declared borders of 1948.

        The people responsible for the safety of these children are their parents who put them in harms way.

        Btw , Jack Green , I am still waiting for an answer,

        Do you recognise the NAQBA.

        Yes or no. 5th request.

      • Mooser
        November 23, 2017, 12:49 pm

        Ummm, “Jack” listen pal, I know Israel has different standards and all, but bragging about how you make ‘tethered goats’ out of Jewish children, and then use their own children’s suffering to blame the Palestinians, is not necessarily going to go over very well.

    • Kay24
      November 23, 2017, 10:47 am

      To your point remember this menacing Palestinian boy and how afraid the IDF was of him?
      They certainly look terrified here.

      • Jack Green
        November 23, 2017, 11:38 pm

        echinococcus

        The Jews who came to Sderot were fleeing persecution.

      • Jack Green
        November 23, 2017, 11:41 pm

        amigo

        Israel has every right to change its self-declared borders.
        If they were official borders which means that they are set by treaty, then Israel couldn’t change them without violating the treaty, but there is no treaty.

      • John O
        November 24, 2017, 9:23 am

        @Jack Green

        “The Jews who came to Sderot were fleeing persecution.”

        And that gave them the right to expel the Palestinians who were living there at the time?

      • John O
        November 24, 2017, 9:26 am

        @Jack Green “Israel has every right to change its self-declared borders.”

        So, on the same basis, you’re OK with Russia’s recent annexation of Crimea, for which the international community, including the US, has imposed sanctions on Russia?

      • amigo
        November 24, 2017, 10:03 am

        “Israel has every right to change its self-declared borders.” jack green (Nakba Denier)

        So what are they waiting for .

        “If they were official borders which means that they are set by treaty” jack green (Nakba denier)

        They are set by treaty!!! –Between Israel and the United Nations.

        To whit!!

        “How many times have you heard the notion that Israel has no borders with Palestine? According to the Provisional Israeli Government’s May 15th 1948 plea for recognition, the State of Israel was declared

        “within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947,”

        Israel was immediately recognized as such by the US followed by Russia and; recognized as such by the majority of the International Community of Nations before being accepted into the UN and; the extent of Israel’s sovereignty was confirmed by the Israeli Government in a statement to the UNSC on 22nd May 1948, before Israel was accepted into the UN as declared and recognized, before the Armistice Agreements and; before Israel made the first claims to territories the Israeli Government stated (n 22nd May ’48) were “outside the territory of the State of Israel”.

        On May 15th 1948 the extent of Israel’s Sovereign territories were clearly defined in the Israeli Government’s official plea for recognition to the President of the USA.

        May 15, 1948 Letter From the Agent of the Provisional Government of Israel to the President of the United States, “MY DEAR MR. PRESIDENT: I have the honor to notify you that the state of Israel has been proclaimed as an independent republic within frontiers approved by the General Assembly of the United Nations in its Resolution of November 29, 1947, and that a provisional government has been charged to assume the rights and duties of government for preserving law and order within the boundaries of Israel, for defending the state against external aggression, and for discharging the obligations of Israel to the other nations of the world in accordance with international law. The Act of Independence will become effective at one minute after six o’clock on the evening of 14 May 1948, Washington time.”

        The US immediately recognized Israel as such. No more, no less. The British also recognized Israel as such and considered non-declared territories under Israel’s control by the time of British recognition, as occupied.

        On May 22nd 1948 the extent of Israel’s Sovereign territories were clearly stated again in the Israeli Government’s Reply to the UNSC.

        May 22, 1948 The reply of the Provisional Government of Israel UNSC S/766 to the questions addressed to the “Jewish authorities in Palestine” was transmitted by the acting representative of Israel at the United Nations on May 22.

        “at present over the entire area of the Jewish State as defined in the Resolution of the General Assembly of the 29th November, 1947. In addition, the Provisional Government exercises control over the city of Jaffa; Northwestern Galilee, including Acre, Zib, Base, and the Jewish settlements up to the Lebanese frontier; a strip of territory alongside the road from Hilda to Jerusalem; almost all of new Jerusalem; and of the Jewish quarter within the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem. The above areas, outside the territory of the State of Israel, are under the control of the military authorities of the State of Israel, who are strictly adhering to international regulations in this regard [1]. The Southern Negev is uninhabited desert over which no effective authority has ever existed.”

        The Israeli Govt goes on to use these phrases in the document:

        “the Government of the State of Israel operates in parts of Palestine outside the territory of the State of Israel” — “outside the area of the State” — “beyond the frontiers of the State of Israel”

        https://talknic.wordpress.com/2010/12/16/israel-has-no-fixed-borders-on-may-22-1948-israel-confirmed-its-borders-in-a-letter-to-the-unsc-the-hasbara-does-not-explain-it-justifies-the-usurping-of-the-palestinians/

        Thanks to Talknic for the above.

        Time for you to ignore this and change the subject , eh jacko.

        Speaking of which —when are you going to recognise the “NAKBA” . 7th request.

      • amigo
        November 24, 2017, 10:19 am

        “The Jews who came to Sderot were fleeing persecution.” Jack Green (NAKBA Denier)

        The Rhohingya people are fleeing persecution as are the Syrians.

        You would be infavour of them taking over Israel , eh jacko.

        Sderot , as I said is in the Occupied Palestine and is outside Israel,s self declared borders.

        The people of Sderot should go back inside Israel,s self declared borders instead of using their children as human sheilds on some one else,s land.

        And don,t bother asking for evidence –the answer is in the post above which you wont bother reading.That however is not important as it will be read by others .

        I don,t normally have the slightest empathy for zionists but given they have you as a supporter , I will relax my rules for once.

      • John O
        November 24, 2017, 1:55 pm

        @Jack Green and Amigo

        Bangladesh and Myanmar are in discussions right now about the Rohingya refugees being able to return home. No, I’m not hopeful about the result of these talks, but it’s more than the Palestinians driven out in the Nakba have ever got from Israel.

      • yonah fredman
        November 24, 2017, 3:16 pm

        amigo- Your citations of Israel’s acceptance of the partition borders in its application for UN membership is something that Palestinians’ supporters should mention as often as possible in order to reframe the debate over a different border conception, one less favorable to Israel and more favorable to the future Palestine. And using the term occupied Palestine to describe places outside the partition borders facilitates citations of this sort. Still, there are many UN resolutions that condemn Israel for putting civilians in occupied territory and no one considers these resolutions to refer to anything other than territories occupied in 67, and for you to use the term in a different sense than the UN uses the term is to confuse rather than to clarify. How can you convince others to be clear in their language, when you use a common term to denote an uncommon definition. this is clearly the route to confusion.

      • amigo
        November 24, 2017, 4:42 pm

        “Still, there are many UN resolutions that condemn Israel for putting civilians in occupied territory and no one considers these resolutions to refer to anything other than territories occupied in 67,” YF

        Except maybe the victims who had their land taken .

        ” and for you to use the term in a different sense than the UN uses the term is to confuse rather than to clarify” YF

        Let me clarify for you Yonah–I do not accept the borders of 67 .I do not recognise Israeli sovereignty over the area outside of it,s self declared borders .Hope that unconfuses you.

        You might want to have pow wow with Jack Green , he is busy sowing confusion , claiming Israel has the right to increase it,s borders when and however it likes.

        You might also wag Netanyahus ear and his subordinates as they seem to be saying , there will be no State of Palestine and they could care less what everyone else thinks.

        But maybe you agree with Jacko and Nuttyyahoo.??.

      • Mooser
        November 25, 2017, 5:46 pm

        “But maybe you agree with Jacko and Nuttyyahoo.??.”

        How would “yonah” know who he agrees with? He’s got one hand over his eyes, one over his ears, and two ‘holding his nose.’ His mouth is always open, however, and ready to swallow a handful of pilpuls.

  5. Ossinev
    November 23, 2017, 10:53 am

    @Jack Green
    Yes it really is a bind.What with those brutal totally immoral heavily armed Palestinian storm troopers breaking down their doors at 3.a.m dragging them from their beds detaining them for days without access to their parents,solicitors food , water,toilets etc.

    I suppose you will be saying next that they have actually suffered more than the the 500 children who were KILLED in Protective Edge because the noise of firecrackers will have left them with permanent mental scars as opposed to being dead and not having to suffer from these terrible terrible scars.

    I know what you are about to say – human shields , Hamas is to blame and all that Zio crap but then again sauce for the goose and following the spirit of the well tried and tested Zio script trauma it is arguable that this can only be expected if Zionists use their children as human shields in these dangerous war zone border areas.

    My parents and their families and relations went through the Blitz ( you know the one where the Nazis were dropping big big big bombs on cities throughout the UK ) Hundreds were killed and thousands of children suffered from REAL bombings. No whinging and whining and eternal victimisation moaning from them. They just got on with life and they would be disgusted by your revolting hypothesis comparing the Nazi type brutality visited on defenceless Palestinian children on a daily/nightly basis by the elite IDF child snatching brigades to the scrambling to the nearest air raid shelter by heavily protected Israeli children with their parents and families in close attendance.

    Zio hypocrisy at its world leading finest.

    • eljay
      November 23, 2017, 12:50 pm

      || Ossinev: … Zio hypocrisy at its world leading finest. ||

      Every day, Zionists like Jack and Mayhem diligently do their part to undermine international laws and human rights and the protections they are meant to afford all people including Jews.

    • Jack Green
      November 24, 2017, 11:57 am

      John O

      There was a treaty which Russia had signed which Russia violated by annexing the Crimea.

      • amigo
        November 24, 2017, 12:15 pm

        “There was a treaty which Russia had signed which Russia violated by annexing the Crimea” Jack Green (NAKBA Denier)

        So what .the Russians are entitled to ignore treaties just as much as Israel is.

      • John O
        November 24, 2017, 1:50 pm

        @Jack Green

        That explains the lack of treaties signed by Israel – better to be in breach of umpteen UN resolutions than to be on the wrong end of international sanctions.

      • Jack Green
        November 24, 2017, 4:42 pm

        amigo

        Israel signed treaties with Jordan & Egypt giving up large areas of Biblical Israel.
        Israel has kept those treaties.

      • Jack Green
        November 24, 2017, 4:45 pm

        John O

        There would be more treaties if Arabs were willing to sign treaties,
        but they’re not.

      • RoHa
        November 24, 2017, 8:52 pm

        Israel has no legitimate claim on territories of Biblical Israel which are not part of modern Israel, so no praise for “giving up” those territories.

      • RoHa
        November 24, 2017, 8:53 pm

        It is Israel which keeps rejecting peace plans that could lead to treaties.

    • Jack Green
      November 24, 2017, 2:27 pm

      amigo

      There are no official borders between the Israelis & the Palestinians unless both the Israelis & the Palestinians agree.

  6. Ossinev
    November 23, 2017, 1:50 pm

    @Kay24
    “To your point remember this menacing Palestinian boy and how afraid the IDF was of him?
    They certainly look terrified here”

    To be fair the little snake could have had life threatening pebbles concealed in his underpants and the most moral well they were being their usual most moral. And so brave ! This was during the day and not under cover of darkness. Their mommies and daddies must be so proud of their heroic endeavours against these terrifying 8 year olds.

    “How was work today darling”. “Difficult mommie very difficult we had to disarm,disable and neutralise a brutal life threatening 8 yr old who could have killed us at any moment with an Iranian supplied pebble. But 20 of us working in coordination managed the assignment without sustaining any casualties. I feel so proud to be in the uniform of the most moral country in the history of civilisation”. “Well good for you son and I hope that the interrogation and the torture will teach these filthy little Arab s..ts their place”.

    • Kay24
      November 24, 2017, 6:42 am

      The poor soldiers must be having nightmares, and being treated for trauma and stress.

  7. RoHa
    November 25, 2017, 12:13 am

    These MPs are going to get bounced.

    http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2017-19/563

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