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click link to see last 100 comments- Glenn Greenwald on the Woolwich attack and blowback from the ‘war on terror’ (16)
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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
What's amazing about that? Israelis in power have not just wanted to, they have broken international law as a matter of course for decades. What would be amazing would be if he, or similar, showed respect for international law and didn't want to break it.
"must take back being Jewish from Zionism before it’s too late."
Hasn't it already been too late for too long?
You're so right, "they really need DESPERATELY to scream out “NOT IN MY NAME!” and keep repeating [it] until they cannot be ignored."
'Palestinians prepare to observe Passover"
Really? Where was that in those news items, and where is that in reality?
"We must first of all desire to help ourselves and then the help of others is sure to follow.”
"help ourselves" do what? What help of others should follow, or has followed? When? How did that come about?
thanks annie, I had missed that one.
And you are not going to change. If Obama used his power responsibly it would be a whole new ball game for Israel that could see the end of it being ruled by Zionism.
"While Germans (only) pay money, Palestinians pay with their land and lives. It’s unfair. Neither of us has done anything".
One of "us" has indeed done something. It is [or was] Germany, and what it did was the Holocaust, the Shoah.
Absolutely. Thanks for stating what should be obvious.
That's true, but where's the teeth? Actions [and inaction] speak louder than words.
How short is short term? Like a piece of string?
Probably/hopefully, but when, and what would bring that about?
I don't wonder. The US won't act. I'm with pabelmont.
Exactly.
Thanks.
Joe, take a bow.
Yes, it appears MJ is daft.
And it is a pleasure that you have arrived to join us, we thank you for your time. This is indeed the place for you, as it is for most of us who come here. A fact that was once so well expressed by a Mondoweiss poster:
"God, this is like blogging heaven here…I come here sometimes to rest my weary soul that’s been abused, pounded on and outraged on other sites… I wanted to throw up, scream, cry, and tear off my hair.
So when I’m sick and tired of battling biased ignoramuses elsewhere, when I need an injection of hope, when I want to do battle on a higher level (and by higher, I DON’T necessarily MEAN POLITICALLY CORRECT, far from it), I COME HERE!!!"
"That is the Israel that all of you know. That is the Israel that all of you love".
That is the Israel of fantasy, of manufactured lies. That is not the reality, the one built on the broken bodies and hearts and the shed blood of those who dared to tell of the true Israel they knew from bitter experience, and of the land and people they love.
"And yes, we are currently occupying Iraq".
Really? With what?
That was then, this is now! :-))
"closed military zone"Just another name for apartheid". That is, just another name for thievery, also known by some as "sharing". As Dagon says, "the Israeli lives to steal".
And treated accordingly, it appears.
Not will look like, he does already.
"You don’t have to be clever to know right from wrong." Exactly.
Exactly, kalithea. But don't expect too many others to get your first paragraph.
Just call it what it is purported to be, "Hagel's come-to-Israel moment".
"there is a claim out there that America’s a tool of the Israelis.."
Well, let's put it this way. Who could the donkey be, and what is claimed to be fellated?
"Can’t get more twisted, perverted & sick than that…"
Isn't that what fellating a donkey is?
Here's more of the latest: link to salon.com
link to reuters.com
link to nabisalehsolidarity.wordpress.com
Here's some more, annie.
link to occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com
link to bloggers.com
link to flickr.com
Wonderful, he is such a shining example of true humanity and of true dedication and/or sumud. His statement to the Ofer court is a classic.
Thanks, the youtube link works for us.
That's what those of us outside the US need - a transcript - please, anyone?
Not from where I am, outside the US - bummer!
Nutcases indeed, walking contradictions in thrall to an oxymoron.
Superb, so relevant and apt, thanks for the reminder.
Your quote of Kennedy on Sderot led me into a search, and this is what I found:
link to independent.co.uk
link to news.bbc.co.uk
Exactly.
"never before in the history of the world had a foreign country taken over another country’s government and bended it away from it’s own interest and to it’s own use like Israel has with the US. There’s nothing like it in history that we can go by or compare it to…….it’s never happened before."
"we are all hostages".
"what a low point in american history. let’s pray he gets some cajons [cojones] back when serving as sec def , and gets some revenge on too."
Doesn't that about say it all?
"Hopefully, we’ll take back our country sometime during my lifetime."
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
Sin all boxed up and Palestinians fenced out.
"Jews like Ben Gurion have threatened Arabs every moment from the middle of the 18th Century down to the present day. Their entire ideology is nothing other than a massive threat to the Palestinian people".
Absolutely, as so clearly stated by Jabotinsky in his The Iron Wall, written in 1923, which specifically spells it out and calls it colonialism, well known as a notorious European specialty.
"When do we cut the umbilical cord ?” If they don’t, then Isreal will drag the US into a financial and moral abyiss."
Will? It has already been there for many years, as you outlined, clubroma. Who has destroyed the UN? Not really Israel, but the US with all its vetos over so many years to protect Israel, that's the real culprit. Beyond that, the culprits are the powers that gave themselves that veto in the first place.
By the way, I like your spelling, Isreal. But the true spelling is Isunreal.
America and “Jewish State” – “Common bond, shared common values, no light between.” Partners in immorality and injustice [eljay]
"Colonisation carries its own explanation, the only possible explanation, unalterable and as clear as daylight to every ordinary Jew and every ordinary Arab.
Colonisation can have only one aim, and Palestine Arabs cannot accept this aim. It lies in the very nature of things, and in this particular regard nature cannot be changed.
We hold that Zionism is moral and just. And since it is moral and just, justice must be done, no matter whether Joseph or Simon or Ivan or Achmet agree with it or not.
There is no other morality".
The Iron Wall, 1923; Jobotinsky.
"…. were they all wrong about that?"
That's what I asked. The answers given are not even slightly convincing. I await actual refutation of talknic and walktallhangloose.
Are folks saying and accepting "I think this shows there really is no rule of law. It is just a scheme to make us believe there is law. Might makes right. Back to tribal rules"?
No boundaries? Who told you that? It sure has according to talknic, those it recognised when it declared independence and later entered the UN. Is he wrong about that?
Personal and political agendas go a long way when tied up with a massive guilt complex, and a history of collusion to keep under the radar.
"“Half of writing history is hiding the truth”
― Joss Whedon
“Oh, what a tangled web we weave...when first we practice to deceive.”
― Walter Scott, Marmion
Scary perhaps to yrn, not to you annie. Anti-Semitic statements my foot!!
It can't come soon enough. The last two were such an utter disgrace.
3900+- years ago, Canaan was owned by the Canaanites, myth or fact, take your pick.
"The majority of Americans who care in any meaningful sense at all about Israel want an ingathering of the Jews so that the righteous 144,000 gather in Israel and thus one of the objectives of the 2nd coming is achieved. The American people, who do care see this as their best interest".
The way you put that, and your further comment to James, "your characterization of the beliefs is kinda far", makes you sound close to being a Hagee follower.
Not me, and I'm one of those pesky Christians looking for the 2nd coming.
I have no time for such scenarios you paint as being a description of who the "Americans who care in any meaningful sense" are. That is so "kinda far" away it's in an Alice in Wonderland world.
"he, like every zionist like him, is an ethocentric bigot. To him and those like him, the rules of justice do not apply".
Of course. As stated of Zionism and its rationale in 1923 by Jabotinsky, "there is no other morality".
Never talk about concubines...remember some stories about them in ye olde Israel...tut tut! Oh those kings of yore-ah. Count them in. And out.
As they all should.
Prostration and kowtowing, that's what elected officials are experts at. Whether it's for money or votes or acceptance or Israel, bowing the knee is the name of the game nearly every one of them plays.
The average ones might, but that doesn't include Christian Zionists who fantasise they are joined at the hip.
Now that's being real American, you're sure living up to your name!
Absolutely.
Taxi - Yep - love it too!
"American Jews want to know what is being done in their name. In the name of Judaism." These are not synonymous. Far from it. It's part of Zionism's legacy to muddy those waters. But then, you already know that!
Keep your name, whenever I see it I know there's a gem likely, as it proved to be this time.
It looks like Kerry is the man. link to news.yahoo.com
So apt, but who's going to foreclose, and how?
Sean, "strongly oppose" but do nothing practical to back it up. That's the story forever. Nobody has a spine because nobody will front up to their part in this disaster. What was the term China used to use? Paper tiger. More like purring pussycats.
Thanks annie, you reiterated that very well.
"The concept of an ethnic nationalist homeland, a Promised Land for a Chosen People, situated on a particular piece of real estate, is absolutely central to mainstream Judaism. How is it possible for Sand not to know this. I find his remarks on this subject to be baffling".
Does not Sand clearly explain this in answer to, "Let’s go back to the core idea of the book, and your description of the strict adjurations to religious Jews not to live in the holy land"?
Thanks annie, great job.
Yes, Israel-worship is golden-calf worship. And that includes the "speak no evil/always justify" folk, whether Jews or others, including the so-called "Christian Zionists". All of them bow the knee to the Zionist god they have made.
Go annie, I salute you.
No comparison, Oleg. Ben-Ari is someone, Terry Jones is a no-one.
Thanks Calm for that RT Freeman interview. I saw it but then couldn't find it to download, so it's good to see it here.
Cliff, a few Christian eschatologists or their fellow-travellers can be reached. There's nothing like a personal visit.
link to pcpj.org
Just in case you haven't seen this, annie, or a gentle reminder if you have.
link to kairospalestine.ps
"I said above that there is no such thing as liberal Zionism. It is essentially Zionism which refuses to own up to the very un-liberal reality that is, and always has been, Zionism".
You put it in a great nutshell for many of us, thanks.
"Yes, I live in Gaza now and was born here too, but I want to return to the place where my grandparents lived, where my first uncle and auntie were born, I want to return to the place where my people were living peacefully, the place they were forced to go out from after Al Nakba".
Here is what Moshe Dayan acknowledged in a 1956 eulogy to a murdered Israeli farmer: "Let us not today fling accusation at the murderers. What cause have we to complain about their fierce hatred to us? For eight years now, they sit in their refugee camps in Gaza, and before their eyes we appropriate for ourselves as our own portion the land and villages in which they and their forefathers have lived".
link to palestineremembered.com
Ashdod is Palestinian even according to the 1947 partition.
Each to their own, I guess, Rizla. Perhaps he's meeting a need for you, but whatever that is, it doesn't apply to me. Analysis does have its place, and it's helped get me to where I am today, but nowadays I prefer to cut to the chase!
I am so so very tired of this writer and his niceness toward the Zionist disaster. It was therefore so so good to read other articles, especially "Former Israeli diplomat..." and the comments there. Sanity restored.
Anger management isn't the problem, Zionism is. And it's not a problem, it's a disgusting evil that was and is shamelessly backed by the US, the land of the free.
"I hope it's worth it to them". I don't. I hope they fall flat on their faces because America woke up and put them out of power.
Very apt comparison of the two interviews, which together exposed how hopelessly biased and unprofessional CNN really is, especially on this issue. It's not just about what was broached and how, but what was carefully avoided and omitted, par for the course in msm. All power to RT and Al Jazeera and others.
Another interesting cover: Walk Off The Earth
link to youtube.com
Yes, on this Canada is one of the pariahs. Australia wanted to be seen to be too, but strong opposition from her party colleagues stopped the PM in her tracks. The choice was to abstain, a position described as "to sit mute, undecided, weak, helpless and impotent,” just like the other 40 quislings who did so.
Good advice to Cliff, MRW. I still remember what you told me about your amazing mentor, I have it as a prized possession!
Zionism has become its own religion. As Jabotinsky said of its rationale, "there is no other morality". Israel is the prize, what the knee is bowed to. And an eternal war footing for real or manufactured enemies comes with the territory.
Who is "us"?
I agree with Betsy. "Another fighter on the way". Isn't this concept the very thing Palestinians are constantly accused of promoting? And that being supposed evidence of how little they value life?
Yay, Mooser to the rescue with some reality. Thanks.
That's great news.
As I understand it, the term "evangelical" has increasingly become a codeword for CUFI people and their ilk who have Israel as their golden calf. That is, people known as Christian Zionists.
That's the plain truth, and so well told. It doesn't just apply to Christians, but to the West, period.
Good one, something old and something new!
Thought his good buddy was Barak?
Oh dear indeed; thanks, I missed that nice little phrase.
Just like too many Christian leaders and their followers who use Israel as their proxy to do their modern crusade for the land.
Love that post, American, you said it good just like it is.
Many Christians seem to be kind of brainwashed on this issue. When I bring anything up on the Christian site I frequent, I receive overwhelming opposition. My only real supporter is an atheist who lives in Lebanon. Israel is always "right" because God is involved on her side because he gave the land forever, etc.
Maybe the gene becomes a self-hating Jew gene?
Judaism has been tried and found wanting, and so have the goys. The potential is there, but it's never really been tapped and harnessed. All we really know is that empires come and go, and justice usually prevails in the end. But who knows how in this case, and how long it will take?
MTd2 says some interesting things. An ideal person to post an article from, or an article about, is Mark Braverman.
He is a US Jew whose grandfather was born in Jerusalem. He grew up as a Zionist but was so impacted by a visit to Palestine and Israel that he became actively opposed to Zionism. He has written the book "Fatal Embrace" and works extensively with Christian churches in support of Palestinians, without himself being Christian.
Reaching Christians already sold on Zionism is no easy task. Most seem to have foreheads of flint and hearts of stone in this area, but Braverman is one of few who could gain some traction, as he may also do with Jews.
link to markbraverman.org
"I prefer the innocent perspective of calling it what it is, as Bill did".
So do I.
"Raw fear, and not of the physical harm variety either. More of the challenging fundamental mythology variety, which is much more threatening to people like you, and the Israeli cab driver".
You got it in one.
Agreed. Interesting you use the term "idolatry" for preconceived ideas about "end times" (not a biblical phrase, by the way). I have used it a number of times for both Zionist and CZ in their obeisance to Zionist Israel. As someone said on this thread, CZ is an oxymoron.
This link is just in case anyone hasn't already seen it.
link to maannews.net
Give it to 'em, kalithea!
Marcus Mohr, just to add to Annie's post about Richard.
That was indeed a classic threadjack. It was such that I finally had had enough and suddenly realised how nearly all of us had been seduced through responding to Richard to effectively add injury to his insult of the writer of the article.
I therefore posted to that effect and apologized to that writer, Waleed. Just two posts later Phil himself also apologized for what had happened.
Richard has never apologized.
This episode may have been something of a clincher to his banning.
link to mondoweiss.net
Absolutely agree. It is indeed a cult that has fooled so many otherwise godly people.
All power to this conference, those involved, and people like them. However, as with those in all cults, the ones caught up in CZ can seldom be reached with logic and reasoning. They have effectively been programmed and can only be freed by some form of deprogramming, in most cases. I know from personal experience of being in two cults over a 15 year period.
Right now I see the seductive power of persuasion and repetition on the Daystar Christian channel. They are having their annual "Sharathon" and it is all about supporting Israel, mostly it appears through money, which they call "seed". Their message is that is how the blessing comes from God, by blessing Israel. It just sickens me no end at what these bug-eyed hucksters are doing in blackening the name of Jesus as they deceive with what they are themselves deceived.
Modern day Pharisees with hearts of stone, ears that refuse to hear, and eyes that cannot see, as they bow the knee to their golden calf.
Yuukkkk.
Don't all Zionists see Palestinians that way, Marcus? How is that a disconnect?
Myths and illusions aren’t really the realm of policy or international relations.
You forgot to add the rider that is the clincher to so many, "except for Israel", one that has always applied to what most Jews and most Western governments say and do. Are you sure you're not one of them?
"It's a given, don't you know"!...
Was that a quote or did you put it together, yourstruly? Whatever, I like it a lot.
the Obama Administration to achieve stated U.S. foreign policy goals of freezing Israeli settlement expansion, ending Israeli military occupation, and establishing a Palestinian state and a just and lasting Israeli-Palestinian peace."
Yeah right, it's as far away as it ever was; all talk, no walk.
A pigs fly fairytale if ever there was one.
Yes, he was and is.
I still cannot believe this:
Can you? If so, how do you justify the Israeli response to unarmed demonstrators that led to the carnage Israel experienced? Or don't you?
Presume you mean as in 'right of return'? So what's it a euphemism for, annie?
You are right, but it appears many actually do use it more literally in the sense of returning to where they believe Jews - that is, their ancestors - once lived as a people 2000+ years ago.
So we don’t have an application of normal morality
Too right we don't, we have an application of the Zionist morality so clearly and coldly stated by Jabotinsky.
It is a morality so abnormal that Zionist Israel has ensured there is the right of "return" for every Jew who had never lived in Israel, and the refusal of return for every non-Jew who had always lived in the Palestine that became Israel.
Whatever you call it doesn't matter, the words that could be used would cover many pages. And they would all say the same thing.
American, it is bizarre and downright weird.
But your description of the Zionist's crazy argument is a gem, I love it!
Could anything be a more stark reminder of the chilling legacy of Zionism than this?
And still so many in the West have no idea about Palestine and Zionist Israel. Liberal Zionists think of Herzl's Zionism as so benign compared to today's Zionism.