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- Singing sensation Mohammad Assaf has given us a ‘national umbrella’ … 3
- State officials in California sign letter denouncing BDS movement on … 7
- After Kerry visit, Israeli and Palestinian leaders quietly re-open economic … 6
- Snowden shows up Obama on leadership 5
- Taking on Bill Clinton and the ‘bigshots’, Chris Matthews says … 8
- Judge who acquitted war criminals at Hague had ‘close and … 4
- Latest DC mantra: The two-state solution is dead, long live … 37
- ‘I wanted to make a film [on] the conflict between … 6
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- ‘Girls on Fire’ tell Alicia Keys — Don’t play Apartheid … 195
- The horror: ‘Breaking the Silence’ releases women’s frightful testimonies of … 134
- Meet the Israeli-linked firm that sold Big Brother machines to … 94
- House committee votes to give Israel another 1/2 billion in … 93
- An Israeli veteran comes forward to decry ‘how shitty we … 93
- Palestinian activist Abir Kopty: Oslo should go, the peace process … 87
- World Bank, the PA and Israel work together to confiscate … 83
- Looking for ‘a new devil,’ Israeli leaders and supporters left … 71
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- US and Israel are accused of manipulating Hague to acquit … 133
- The kids are back, and it’s not alright 132
- The horror: ‘Breaking the Silence’ releases women’s frightful testimonies of … 126
- Approaching 60, Norman Finkelstein reflects 116
- Palestinian activist Abir Kopty: Oslo should go, the peace process … 102
- The MSM tries to distinguish between Manning and Snowden. Don’t … 86
- I’ve got Mohammed Assaf fever 72
- Weiner should be ‘hounded’ for his support for apartheid 50
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- ‘No consequences… ad finitum’ — Reporters reject State Dep’t explanation of US policy on settlements http://t.co/RuwyEzmToV, 3 hours ago
- Sixteen-year-old Ali Shamlawi faces 25 counts of attempted murder for alleged stone throwing http://t.co/YUvWhKyWKP, 3 hours ago
- Palestinian prisoner Hussam Shaheen writes -- Singing sensation Mohammad Assaf has given us a ‘national umbrella’ http://t.co/Yss65BM24p, 3 hours ago
- Singing sensation Mohammad Assaf has given us a ‘national umbrella’ — writes Palestinian political prisoner http://t.co/xtd1fZIiqR, 3 hours ago
- If the PA ever does build a state, it will be one with Israeli oversight of its internal affairs http://t.co/gbeqbhTlVY, 3 hours ago
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click link to see last 100 comments- Let’s don’t talk about Israel (28)
- Donald: “It has plenty of clout, which is why, even now, Bibi Netanyahu, after an entire life as a Likudnik,...
- Latest DC mantra: The two-state solution is dead, long live the two-state solution! (37)
- State officials in California sign letter denouncing BDS movement on college campuses (7)
- Alex Kane: Hi Henry, I should have done that initially. I updated the post with the list of legislators who have...
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- Donald: “How do you know Ellis knows this? ” I don’t. I think I remember Ellis saying something...
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- Felice Gelman: The game is a simple one: increase the dependence of the urban West Bank population on government and...
- Annie Robbins: just tightening the noose. infuriating beyond belief.
- Singing sensation Mohammad Assaf has given us a ‘national umbrella’ — writes Palestinian political prisoner (3)
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The War of Ideas in the Middle East
DONALD- “I know Ellis knows this, but I wish he and others would stop repeating the conventional storyline about Samantha Power, that she’s this truth-telling idealist who fights against the realists and wants the US to do good in the world and is now folding under pressure. She folded a long time ago.”
How do you know Ellis knows this? If true, that would make him an un-prophetic liar. Or, perhaps, a bender of truth creating a parable. Personally, I doubt that this rationalizer of imperial intervention has a humanitarian bone in her body. A power-seeker, pure and simple.
Ellis also states that “By straightening up on Israel, they think they’ll be free to do the right thing on other, more important, issues.”
Is he serious? Is it even conceivable that he is serious concerning these three power-seekers who have done so much to promote imperial aggression? The Obama administration is the more effective evil, smilingly misrepresenting the reality of actual policies. Policies which, as far as I know, they agree with. Endless war and global neoliberalism and omnipresent surveillance.
ANNIE- “keith, isn’t it just as relevant to look at what precedence this sets in terms of what could be prosecuted in the future, as well as past events.”
Power determines who gets prosecuted and who doesn’t. There is already sufficient legal justification for prosecuting every 20th century US president for war crimes. It is not going to happen. Israeli officials are not going to be prosecuted for war crimes unless the empire, including Zionist power elites, want them prosecuted. I don’t believe in dignifying kangaroo courts. Furthermore, I tend to de-emphasize the majesty of our legal system. In many ways, laws are but the codification of the prevailing system of power, justice an incident not an end. For gosh sake, look at the Obama administration’s “legal” shredding of the constitution. The President can “leally” assassinate someone because they gave money to a charity which the State Department has labeled “terrorist.”
PHIL- “Is this the US imperial state or the Israel lobby at work?”
It was the US empire which was behind the establishment of the Yugoslavia ‘kangaroo court’ tribunal. It is a tool of empire, nothing more. The two parties most responsible for the death and destruction in the former Yugoslavia are Germany and the US. Without their machinations, it is unlikely that a civil war would have taken place. If there was any justice, Clinton and NATO would have been in the dock long ago. This is one area where Israel is relatively blameless. You shouldn’t look too hard to see things which aren’t there.
MARC ELLIS- “Parvenus are Jewish upstarts, pretenders, social climbers who use wealth and social connections to ingratiate themselves to European culture and assert their leadership over the Jewish community.”
I would suggest that in a US dominated, globalized world, that “parvenu” no longer applies. Jews are full-fledged members of the dominant elite, no ingratiating required. In fact, less obvious domineering (AIPAC knee-bending) would be politically expedient.
“They use their Jewishness to assimilate to power, at the present moment utilizing the Holocaust and Israel to facilitate that assimilation.”
Assimilate to power is curious phraseology. How does one assimilate to power? Now, change “assimilate” to “acquire power through organized solidarity”, and I am in complete agreement and have said the same thing many times.
Final comment. Arendt’s phrase about the banality of evil could equally apply to current supporters of imperial interventions sold as humanitarian or R2P.
ASHERPAT- “there will be no legal or moral incentive for Israel to continue supporting the territories with electricity, water, etc”
Israel, as the occupying power, has legal obligations to provide for the population. And don’t say that Israel isn’t “occupying” the occupied territories. And what about all of those “settler” terrorists? Israel agreed to Oslo because the formal occupation was too expensive. They sought a de facto occupation using the PA to suppress the population.
ASHERPAT- Ending the Oslo Accords due to Israeli non-compliance might well be positive, and likely wouldn’t hurt. Send the PA leadership back to Tunis? Not a bad idea. Collect all of the US/Israel supplied weapons from the PA sepoys who maintain order for US/Israel? Sounds good to me. Revert to military rule? Very expensive and would create a lot of problems for Israel. Be careful what you sarcastically wish for. Of course I wouldn’t advocate for this just because Abir Kopty favors it, however, if the majority of Palestinians are so inclined, I say go for it. Time to change tactics and up the ante.
I didn’t comment on this post yesterday, but it stayed with me, so here goes.
Let us begin with Rabbi Shmuley Boteach. What chutzpah to compare American Black persecution with American Jewish persecution. Forget Nazi Germany, US Jews only experienced a relatively short period of discrimination, and now occupy the highest levels of power. American Blacks, however, live the legacy of slavery, lynching, and ongoing discriminatory bias. There is no comparability.
Rabbi Boteach’s examples of Cory Booker’s ‘qualifications’ were interesting. Two times Schmuley asked for Corry to accommodate him at great expense to Booker. Hardly the requests of a friend. Two times Booker honored the requests (demands?). Message? The boy knows his place and is reliable. He can go far with Jewish support, and we can reliably expect him to support our agenda.
As for Corry Booker, Jeez, not another Ivy League plus Rhodes Scholar lawyer with the ambition to become the Black face of white corporate/financial power. Neoliberal in the extreme. He’ll probably go far with his obvious ambition and backing.
MARC B- “I’d add though that technology permits intrusions into areas that were previously inaccessible.”
Lordy, lordy, that ain’t the half of it. I am of the opinion that due to high speed computers, satellite communications, and investor friendly trade agreements (neoliberal globalization), the financial control of the global political economy has increased orders of magnitude, not even conceivable 50 years ago.
ADAM- “Or perhaps more importantly - why did anyone on the left support him in the first place?”
Are you picking on Phil? Good! I’m sure that Dan Crowther will appreciate this post. As for the upcoming confirmations, you have to know that Phil is sweet on Samantha. She smiles so fetchingly as she calls in the humanitarian ordinance.
MARC ELLIS- “Everything one admires about Hannah Arendt, we lack. This makes our American and Jewish politics shameful and those who practice it shameless. It has led us to dark corners of an imperialism so deep we have become unrecognizable to ourselves.”
Powerful words. They sound much better coming from you than from me.
“Arendt’s Jewishness is anachronistic – to our detriment.”
I am not that knowledgeable on Arendt, however, I suspect that her “Jewishness” is rooted in a very specific time, place, and circumstance that is not replicable. However, I suspect that the essence of what you label Arendt’s “Jewishness” has universal qualities available to all. As such, prophetic Jewishness surely can expand into a universal prophetic under the right circumstances. Surely a prerequisite is to resist the siren call of power-seeking, the very core of the imperialist mindset.
Samantha Power will say and do whatever is necessary to get approved so she can be in a position to influence policy in order to kill lots and lots of people in an effort to ‘save lives.’ Will Western feminists support her efforts to make the White Man’s Burden the White Woman’s as well? Nothing like a unisex humanitarian bombing to appeal to liberal interventionists. I suspect that Phil is rooting for Samantha to become part of team Obama, the more effective imperialists and warmongers.
HOPHMI- “All it takes is a real economic downtown, and some demagogue who knows what buttons to push.”
You are worried about Pam Geller?
PHIL- “In this place and time, this is a delusion. And an irresponsible one.”
Dealing with this delusion entails a bit of a conundrum for American Jews. I believe that an important aspect of Jewish success involves what you refer to as Jewish kinship, Jewish support and favoritism for their fellow Jews. Nowadays, this tribal solidarity seems to a large degree to be based upon a Zionist cultivated shared sense of victim hood, at least for older Jews. To acknowledge Jewish power and relative security would be to downplay Jewish victim hood, a significant contributor towards Jewish kinship and Jewish success. Also, seeing oneself as the eternal victim does wonders for salving the conscience of the privileged.
“In view of the weakness of the uniqueness thesis, the interesting question is obviously why its advocates persist in upholding it.”
From the perspective of Jewish tribalism, since the Jewish people are no longer united by the Judaic religion, appeals to being God’s chosen people are less effective than appeals to unique suffering and victim hood. Also, it tends to relieve any sense of responsibility or guilt as a consequence of Jewish privilege.
From the perspective of the rest of the imperial elite, they are more than happy to go along with the uniqueness of this instance of mass murder to avoid dealing with the reality of the historical prevalence of the mass murder of the weak by the powerful. All empires routinely engage in mass murder which they downplay and/or deny. The Romans, the Spanish, the British, the Americans, etc. To advocate “never again” for mass murder in general is to call for the elimination of empire and power seeking.
“...up to a certain point, the Nazi war crimes consisted largely of inflicting on white Europeans levels of brutality that had previously been reserved only for Asians, Africans, and the native populations of North, Central, and South America.” (Bertram Gross)
“The United States has financed and given overall direction to the worst genocide since World War Two, in the Democratic Republic of Congo. Since 1996, Washington has drenched Congo’s eastern provinces in the blood of over six million people.”
link to blackagendareport.com
MARC ELLIS- “Power corrupts. So does political ambition. If you want to make it big you have to be an empire enabler.”
This says it all.
TOIVOS- “The rebel defeat in Qusayr is showing that the Clinton/Obama policy of Assad must go is in complete taters.”
At most, it is a minor setback. Washington doesn’t want Syria aligned with Iran. If they can’t force regime change, they will simply destroy Syria by continuing to support and fund the Islamic fundamentalists resulting in ongoing sectarian conflict and the disintegration of Syria. Look at what happened to Yugoslavia. Ethnic conflict was encouraged and the country smashed to bits. For Uncle Sam, this is a low intensity conflict, relatively cheap with no US casualties. Also, it sets the example of what to expect if you resist the empire. The only reason the empire would back off is if it threatened to ignite friendly areas such as Turkey. Even then, who knows? US/Israel seems to have decided to either neutralize or destroy all opposition.
Good Grief, Samantha Power is an imperial militarist who salivates at any and all opportunities for “humanitarian” intervention. We need to bomb more countries, not less. Yet, based upon a few statements critical of Israel, you are ready to place palm leaves at her bloody feet.
HOPHMI- “Most American Jews supported Rabin.”
I am not concerned about most American Jews, I am concerned about American Jewish Zionists, primarily the Zionist leadership. How did the Adelsons, Bronfmans and Pritzkers feel about Rabin? Why is so much American Jewish money flowing toward the Israeli right wing?
“Most American Jewish Zionists, as you put it, favor the two-state solution ….”
Only if you consider a Palestinian Bantustan a viable two state solution. Most American Jewish Zionists were adamantly opposed to Oslo and continue to be opposed to any withdrawal to the Green Line borders. American Jewish Zionist leaders and their billionaire supporters overwhelmingly favor a militarized Jewish state. No? Try cutting US military aid to Israel and see what happens.
The apoplectic reaction of American Jewish Zionists to Rabin’s forced baby steps toward accommodation highlight an important point. It is not true that American Jewish Zionists support Israel unconditionally. They support a radical, militarized Israel and won’t tolerate an accommodating Israel. Since Israel is dependent on the American Jewish Diaspora to provide the political muscle to ensure ongoing US aid, this tends to strongly influence Israel’s behavior. How can we expect Israel to seek peace and justice when their American Jewish Zionist supporters strongly oppose this?
ROHA- “(Actually, the climate scientists acknowledge that the world hasn’t warmed for at least 16 years (23 years on the RSS data set). There are indications that it might have started cooling. I hope not. Warmth is better.)”
The average global mean temperature is based upon averaging the global temperatures over time. Some temperatures are above the mean, some below. Beginning in 1995, all of the global average temperatures have been above the global mean, indicating additional warming, not cooling. Like most global warming deniers, you have begun your calculations with the record temperature of 1998 as the start, then incorrectly asserted that subsequent greater-than-average temperatures represent some sort of cooling compared to the record temperature. They do not. This willful lack of intellectual integrity is quite unbecoming.
As I am sure you are aware, the consensus among climatologists is for substantial additional warming. For those interested, accurate climatological information can be obtained at “RealClimate: Climate science from climate scientists.”
link to realclimate.org
“Manning is a hero for sharing with the people of the world, and especially the people of the United States, the truth about U.S. foreign policy that is too often abusive, in violation of international law and conducted on behalf of transnational corporate interests.” (Green Shadow Cabinet)
link to greenshadowcabinet.us
“President Obama, however, has waged the most aggressive and vindictive assault on whistleblowers of any president in American history…. The Obama administration has prosecuted twice as many cases under the Espionage Act as all other administrations combined.” (Glenn Greenwald)
link to guardian.co.uk
“The Brookings Institute just a few months ago released extensive polls of what Arabs think about Iran. And the results are rather striking. They show that Arab opinion does — holds that the major threat in the region is Israel, that’s 80 percent; the second major threat is the United States, that’s 77 percent. Iran is listed as a threat by 10 percent. With regard to nuclear weapons, rather remarkably, a majority, in fact, 57 percent, say that the region will be — it would have a positive effect in the region if Iran had nuclear weapons. Now, these are not small numbers. Eighty percent, 77 percent say that the U.S. and Israel are the major threat. Ten percent say that Iran is the major threat.” (Noam Chomsky, 2010)
link to democracynow.org
PHIL- “…Avraham Burg, a former speaker of the Knesset in Israel said that [the Jewish commmunity] created two great structures after the war. It created the state of Israel and it created the American Jewish power establishment that supported Israel….”
At this stage of the game, I would suggest that the American Jewish power establishment is the desired outcome, support for Israel the means to that end. It is all about power.
PHIL- “It's not about….the military industrial complex. At its heart it's a love affair between Israelis and powerful Diaspora Zionists, on both sides of the supposed aisle.”
Curious how guarded affection turned to a passionate love affair following the 1967 war. Even the Trotskyists turned neocons found unexpected love, previously unhinted at.
“What about Russia, China, Iran--or even the U.S., ask Strenger and Avneri, along with others--why not protest its violations of human rights?”
Putting aside Iran, when have Strenger and Avneri ever protested human rights violations in Russia, China, and the U.S.? Do they plan to? Oh, what I would give to see the Israeli intelligentsia rise up and protest U.S. human rights violations in Iraq, Libya, and the rest of the Third World. Good luck on that!
ANNIE- “how about they stop taking our money and try fending for themselves.”
Yes, I agree that this is what should be done, however, I don’t see that this is what Chas Freeman is recommending or even suggesting. As usual with Freeman, there are so many things wrong with this “analysis,” along with a few insightful observations that a detailed dissection would be excessively laborious. Also, he writes in a sufficiently skillful manner that people are able to see things which aren’t there, and ignore things which are. Chas Freeman is an imperialist to the core, albeit an unusually sophisticated one. He certainly is able to stoke his fan base of America First chauvinists.
A disingenuous but well written propaganda piece which essentially recommends that Israel act more like a traditional vassal state or they, and their Jewish supporters, will be sorry. Empire? What empire?
MRW- “Because you haven’t been here long enough or because you didn’t bother to read?”
You might have a point if your links made your point, but they don’t. A 2010 post on Hanakkah, a 2011 post on Dershowitz, a 2012 post on the cultural history of Sephardic Jews, and a 2013 post on Arab versus Jewish cuisine? The 2012 post which you emphasize merely tries to make the point that the Sephardic tradition is more humanistic than the Ashkenazi tradition, hence, if the Sephardic Jews had more influence this could result in a form of Levatine humanism. The essence of all of these posts is to promote the Sephardic cultural tradition, nothing more. Not surprising coming from “the director of the Center for Sephardic Heritage in Brooklyn, New York.”
None of these posts deal with the political reality involving Ashkenazi Israelis and Mizrahi Israelis. As far as I know, the Israeli Mizrahi Jews support the Jewish state of Israel, and participate in the occupation and subjugation of the Palestinians. Are there not Mizrahi in the IDF with their boot on the Palestinian neck? Do they not man check points and vote for right-wing governments? How does all of this relate to their so-called Levantine humanism? What does David Sasha have to say about all of this? In his last post he called Massad a racist for not adequately dealing with Sephardic cultural differences in analyzing the Ashkenazi roots of Zionism. This attack on Massad as a racist no doubt plays well to the Zionist galleries and helps promote his Sephardic cause.
I see no evidence of any real concern on his part for the Palestinians, or even with dealing with Israeli Mizrahi Jews in an honest manner.
DAVID SASHA- “It is therefore ironic that Massad, in seeking to counter Zionism, affirms its basic dogma that Jews are Europeans and not Middle Easterners.”
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Oh, so the fate of the Mizrahi is the fault of the Palestinians? It is up to Massad to tell your tale? Funny, I don’t recall you posting on Mondoweiss before, informing us of the vast differences between the Ashkenazi Israelis and the Mizrahi Israelis. So, the Mizrahi are staunch defenders of the rights of Palestinian Israelis? The Mizrahi support an Israeli state of all of it’s citizens? Feel free to tell us your tale of woe, but spare us the hypocrisy of criticizing a Palestinian who explores the Ashkenazi roots of Zionism. Perhaps when you make common cause with your Palestinian brothers and sisters I will be more inclined to take you seriously, not before.
PAMELA OLSON- “…perhaps even dismantling large structures of belief and ideology built on shaky foundations….”
True enough, however, this would apply to virtually all systems of power throughout world history. Witness the white man’s burden, responsibility to protect and humanitarian intervention as misrepresentations of imperial aggression. Elite run societies need to misrepresent reality in order to manufacture consent from a citizenry eager to be deceived. Bullshit is the lubricant which allows empires and local hegemons to function.
MARC ELLIS- “With the recent Arab League land swap agreement, it seems that the Arab countries are all-in on Israel being integrated into the Middle East military security structure.”
You mean that it isn’t already? I was under the impression that Turkey, Israel and the Gulf monarchies are even now bound up in various NATO entanglements.
link to dandelionsalad.wordpress.com
MARC ELLIS- “The outer layers – empire, colonialism, capitalism, whiteness….The question remains: Are these outer layers only?”
All four of your “outer layers” are different aspects of power-seeking by the dominant elites. Elites have been seeking to accumulate power throughout recorded history and will continue to do so in the foreseeable future. Dealing with elite power-seeking is critically important if the species is to survive. If I read you correctly, your question becomes ‘to what extent is Jewishness inexorably linked with power-seeking?’ You seem to be describing a Jewish identity outside the Judaic religion, and questioning the source of group bonding and its malleability.
“…Jews are still having more or less the same Jewish identity discussion we had three thousand years ago.”
I seriously doubt that. I am guessing that the current discussion began with the enlightenment and questions of assimilation which were then strongly influenced by Zionism, Israel and the Holocaust. Throw in current Jewish imperial success. Many new and different strands to sort out. Yet, one must not get so absorbed on this particular question as to give inadequate attention to the overall political economy and the dramatic changes taking place.
DANAA- “People sometimes seem to think that just because there are obvious systemic problems, that the system itself will collapse any day.”
Additionally, these same people irrationally assume that systemic collapse will automatically result in a victory for their ideological perspective. There seems to me to be a profound lack of understanding of the functioning of the real political economy. Ideology has trumped rationality, as it usually does. In fact, things are changing rapidly and the current global financial system may collapse. Regrettably, what follows may be as bad or worse. The “masters of the universe” aren’t known for their benevolence.
MARC ELLIS- Good heavens! You seem to have become Mondoweiss’ most radical contributor, pushing the discussion in directions which need to be discussed, but which others are unable to pursue. Keep up the good work, Professor!
“…and Jewish Supremacy in U.S. Palestine Solidarity Organizing.”
Interesting phraseology. Is Jewish tribalism so strong that Jews are incapable of relating to non-Jews in anything other than a position of power? Is Jewish “tikkun olam” a useful camouflage to hide Jewish power-seeking? Is the Jewish collective capable of seeing beyond itself?
This poll is pure propaganda! Imperial B.S.! Oh, the US, Canada and Australia are soooo tolerant! Perhaps a review of how we treated, and continue to treat, the aboriginal population would suggest a different level of tolerance. The notion of these three countries being the embodiment of “post racial” enlightenment doesn’t rise to the level of a bad joke. Actions speak louder than words, and slick pollsters can make it all disappear, even as they reinforce the “clash of civilizations” theme.
DAVID SAMEL- Since you have this intense interest in Dershowitz’ falsifications, I thought you might be amused by a 6 minute video of Norman Finkelstein discussing this very topic. link to normanfinkelstein.com
PHILIP MUNGER- “Like Guatemala's other suppliers of arms, Israel (which had been supplying arms to Guatemala since 1974) continued its aid provisions. The cooperation didn't just involve material support, but also included providing intelligence and operational training, carried out both in Israel and in Guatemala. In 1982, Ríos Montt told ABC News that his success was due to the fact that "our soldiers were trained by Israelis." There was not much outcry in Israel at the time about its involvement in Guatemala, though the support for Ríos Montt was no secret.”
link to en.wikipedia.org
“In her letter, Senator Boxer perplexingly argued that removing standards would allow Congress to hold Israel to the highest possible standard….”
It is a sign of the times. Public opinion held in such low esteem that Boxer couldn’t be bothered concocting a believable lie, instead insulting our intelligence with a flimsy excuse almost designed to let us know that she doesn’t care what we think, but feels compelled to go through the motions.
In a slightly off topic but similar vein, Assata Shakur is a former Black Panther who fled to Cuba in 1979, was granted political asylum and has lived there uneventfully ever since. “Seemingly out of nowhere the FBI announced that fugitive Black activist Assata Shakur was now declared a “terrorist” on their Most Wanted list. In addition, a bounty for her capture was raised from $1 million to $2 million.”, Bill Fletcher writes. Why now? Perhaps as a counter to efforts to normalize US-Cuban relations? Can’t deal with countries which shelter “terrorists” can we? More to the point, perhaps we need to “get tough” with Cuba? And Venezuela, Syria, Iran and anyone else who isn’t “with us.” People like Julian Assange and Bradley Manning too! Seems to me that Uncle Sam is on a take-no-prisoners rampage.
link to zcommunications.org
“Washington's reputation as an "honest broker" in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is in tatters….”
I am really sick to death of comments like this. It is so irritating for Cook to formally pretend that Uncle Sam has an “honest broker” reputation to jeopardize, a feeble attempt to ineffectually imply that Washington should act to uphold some bogus image. Who’s kidding who? Best to cut the crap and engage in straight talk. The empire can never be an honest broker and everyone who isn’t willfully stupid knows it, particularly when it concerns Israel. I for one am glad that Israel scuttled this so called initiative so that we won’t have to endure farcical “negotiations.”
HOPHMI- “Without question, any instinct to demilitarize Germany after the war was correct, and if you can’t admit that, there is seriously something wrong with you.”
I mostly agree, and am appalled by many of the comments distorting historical reality in a chauvinistic fashion. One can never be sure of what would have occurred under a scenario not pursued, however, a demilitarized Germany with no NATO or Warsaw Pact (formed in response to NATO) could have lead to a much more peaceful world. Surely, the US lead arms race has been an ongoing disaster.
“If the West succeeds if effecting the overthrow of the Syrian government, Syria and Lebanon will be targeted for membership in NATO’s Mediterranean Dialog….With the new administration in Cyprus confirming its intention to immediately join the Partnership for Peace, every nation in the Mediterranean Sea Basin will be a NATO member and partner.” (Rick Rozoff)
link to dandelionsalad.wordpress.com
It should be noted that Turkey is a member of NATO, the Gulf Cooperation Council members are linked to NATO, and Israel is trying to establish closer links, possibly join. The actions against Syria are well coordinated. Israel as a true rogue unlikely.
TREE- “Your first statement makes no sense, since “prior to 1967″, the only “borders” that existed were “pre-1967″.
I wasn’t going to comment again on this thread, but how could I not respond to this bit of intellectual larceny? The bulk of my comment is contained in one paragraph which begins as follows: “I don’t believe that US Zionist Jews initially advocated for a militarized Israel, but that changed after the 1967 war.” I am, of course, referring to the pre-war “borders”, that is, the “green line.” Within the context of the paragraph, anyone with at least reasonable intelligence and constructive intent would understand the essence of what I was trying to say. I don’t doubt your intelligence, it is your intent which concerns me.
I attempt to cover a lot of ground in just one paragraph, focusing on the impact of the 1967 war on American Jewish support for Zionism and for Israel. I think that the historical record is clear that following Israel’s victory in 1967, US support for Israel, and American Jewish support for Israel and Zionism increased by an order of magnitude. Israel, pursuing its own interests, but with US support, achieved a huge victory for both Israeli expansionist goals and US Middle East hegemony. I maintain that this new relationship significantly benefited American Jewish power-seeking, which, in turn, is a significant factor behind American Jewish fat-cat support for Israel and Zionism.
Why you and other Mondoweissers tend to belittle US Zionist influence on Israel is a bit of a mystery. The notion that the people who effectively lobby on Israel’s behalf and fund settlements, think tanks, birthright tours and campaign funding have little or no influence on Israeli policy is illogical. Everyone talks about the power of the Israel Lobby, which is based upon organization and money. A lukewarm Lobby ain’t going to be effective. Their opinions carry weight. Additionally, if American Jewish money is so effective buying US support for Israel, why would it not be equally effective influencing Israeli politicians? Why make a big to-do about Jewish Democratic campaign financing and ignore the 96.8% campaign financing Netanyahu got from foreign sources? link to mondoweiss.net It is virtually inconceivable that this type of support would be provided unless those providing it approved of Israel’s expansionist, militaristic policies and actions. How much US Zionist funding is the Israeli peace camp getting? He who pays the piper doesn’t have to call the tune. Successful pipers share their patron’s taste in music and automatically play mutually pleasing music.
TREE- “Israel was ALWAYS a Middle East Sparta….”
How about if I alter the phraseology to read: ‘US Zionist Jews have worked to support Israel as a Middle East Sparta because that helps them in their power seeking objectives.’
I don’t believe that US Zionist Jews initially advocated for a militarized Israel, but that changed after the 1967 war. Suddenly, Israel’s massive victory and the destruction of Nasser and Pan Arabism served to establish Zionist bona fides as imperial supporters, not Bolsheviki usurpers. A lot of closed doors opened up for Jewish upward mobility. Some time around then, a group of Jewish Trotskyists saw the light, became neocons and went to work for “Scoop” Jackson. They also developed a love for Israel not in evidence prior to 1967, also true for much of the Jewish intelligentsia. Prior to 1967, I think a negotiated peace based upon pre-1967 borders would have been acceptable to US Zionist Jews. Not now. I continue to believe that the center of Zionist power is the US, and that US Zionist Jews have an agenda for Israel which they believe benefits them.
ANNIE- “interesting you didn’t answer my question keith. so what about clark and US imperial objectives?”
My two comments answered your question quite adequately, however, permit me to rephrase to help you understand. Clark is complaining that the neocons have caused the US to adopt at least part of the Project for the New American Century agenda as official imperial strategy. He is laying the Iraq invasion at the neocon’s feet, which is partly true. Adopted, Annie, adopted. Yes, I am saying that these plans became imperial strategy. It is no mere coincidence that the seven countries in question have been targeted and were assaulted or are under assault. Obama has been as bad or worse than Bush in this regard. Yet, you cannot bring yourself to admit that this represents imperial strategy. How interesting. There is an empire, Annie, deal with it.
Returning to those nasty neocons, according to Stephen Pelletiere, “The neo-cons are part of the ideological apparatus of the military/industrial complex, a very important part, to be sure; in many respect they are the main propagandists.” (p237, “Iraq and the International Oil System: Why America Went to War in the Gulf,” Stephen Pelletiere, 2001/2004) In other words, the neocons, strong pro-Israeli bias notwithstanding, are an integral part of the imperial intelligentsia. Further, the hegemonic goals of the “Project for the New American Century” are not substantially different from those outlined in Zbigniew Brzezinski’s “The Grand Chessboard,” although the emphasis and tactics differ. Essentially, the shared goal of the elites is empire, but with different flavors of imperialists.
Finally, what is this nonsense about a “coup?” Clark is obviously using a figure of speech, or are you maintaining that the neocons installed Obama in a coup? The original neocons have been out of government for a while, time to move on and acknowledge imperial policy and responsibility.
AMERICAN- “oh please…rent a brain and get off your one note Chomsky US Imperialist train.”
So you think that Noam and I lack the sophistication and depth of knowledge of a wikipedia scholar and internet know-it-all such as yourself? How much sophistication does it take to say the Lobby did it? Or to label folks as neocons and Israel Firsters and assert your labels as proof? Or to label someone as a Chomskyite instead of dealing with what is said? Funny, I avoid quoting Chomsky to avoid this sort of thing, however, you continue to attack your Chomsky straw man because labeling is all you know how to do.
As for Wesley Clarke and those “New York Jews,” I assume that this is his crude way of referring to the neocons. Now ask yourself, ‘how did these neocons get such power and influence?’ They forced themselves into the Bush administration? They intimidated Cheney into going along with their ideas, threatened Rumsfeld to go along too? Or is it possible that they were brought on board to do what they did? And why would this not be considered American foreign policy? And why would the delayed implementation of these plans not be considered the implementation of imperial plans? The neocons are no longer in government, yet the continuity between the Bush and Obama administrations is difficult to miss. Yet, you and Annie seem to have this reluctance to acknowledge that it is Obama who is implementing this hyper-aggressive imperial strategy, or even to acknowledge that it is imperial strategy. The neocons may have initially proposed this, but it is the empire which has adopted and implemented the plan, and continues to do so, subject to further developments and constraints.
As for Thomas Friedman, I don’t read him or the NYT, and don’t care what he says. It is a big mistake to place too much emphasis on the public statements of these propagandists and liars. You need to focus on the facts on the ground and imperial continuity, tempered by factoring in neoliberal globalization. Ignore the MSM BS and read radical critiques and analysis.
ANNIE- “so what about clark and US imperial objectives? plllleeease. or is that the new code name for “neoconservative Project for the New American Century”
Are you saying that the empire is not involved? That CENTCOM, Special Operations Forces, the CIA and NATO report to the neocons? What you see happening is official US policy regardless of who initiated it.
ANNIE- “i got it directly off libra’s link.
Yes, libra quoted me correctly discussing one aspect of Israel’s function for empire. Below that I changed topic by saying that “A militaristic Israel provides benefits for American Zionists as well.” This I followed with the Finkelstein quote. Not that tough to follow if you want to deal with what I actually said.
You continue to insinuate that just because the US government officials doing a lot of the planning and influencing were neocons, that this indicates that the policy was foreign to the US government. You want to label it “neocon” policy, then pretend that it isn’t imperial policy. Nonsense. Obama, Wall Street, NATO, CENTCOM, the MIC, the State Department, etc, are all involved. None of them report to the neocons. You, and other Mondoweissers have the unfortunate tendency to label people (Israel Firsters), then to treat your label as some sort of proof. Proof by labeling.
Yeah, there is somewhat of a power struggle going on here between what you call “realists” (different imperialists) and hyper-militarists. There is always some internal bickering concerning imperial policy. As for the benefits of seeming to “defend” poor little Israel against the forces of darkness versus spilling blood for oil, I would think that should be obvious.
Rather than trying to put words in my mouth, you could simply refer to what I actually said in libras link. Ready? “Yes, our foreign policy is heavily biased in favor of Israel, however, all of this occurs within the context of domestic concentrations of power. The empire is still the empire, and it is not being run out of Tel Aviv. Furthermore, the “American” empire has morphed into the transnational corporate empire, guided by the financial corporations. Israel has nothing to do with neoliberal globalization, other than going along, or with the Trans Pacific Partnership, although the “Lobby” may be involved as a de facto imperial lobby.”
ANNIE- “…only problem is keith cut off the beginning and end of the quote, slashing the context.”
What is this? Bait and switch? You substitute a different quote from a different discussion, then claim that it is out of context. Well, duh. The problem was you referencing a quote I made of Finkelstein to illustrate that US Zionist Jews have worked to shape Israel into a Middle East Sparta because that helps them in their power seeking objectives. For gosh sake, don’t quote me out of context and then criticize the quote for being out of context!
As for evidence of US intent in Lebanon and Syria, permit me to once again quote Wesley Clark on US imperial objectives in 2001, followed by two additional quotes which may put your mind to rest. Please note that two of the seven countries identified for regime change are Lebanon and Syria.
"…in the Pentagon in November 2001, one of the senior military staff officers had time for a chat. Yes, we were still on track for going against Iraq, he said. But there was more. This was being discussed as part of a five-year campaign plan, he said, and there were a total of seven countries, beginning with Iraq, then Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Iran, Somalia and Sudan.... (Wesley Clark, Winning Modern Wars, p. 130).
link to globalresearch.ca
“The U.S.-encouraged Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 2006.…” (Gareth Porter, CounterPunch, 2/1/11)
"The aim of America and Israel is to spread chaos in Lebanon and to find excuses for foreign intervention." (Hezbollah's Secretary General, Hassan Nasrallah, Whitney, CounterPunch, 1/7-9/2011)
LES- “Be sure to read Dennis Bernstein’s piece on Pritzker the sub-prime queen.”
I agree wholeheartedly! Additionally, folks might be interested to know that in “Supermob,” by Gus Russo, focusing on mob lawyer Sidney Korshak, the Pritzker family enjoys considerable mention for apparent mob ties, and receiving mob investment money. Russo indicates that most of the Jewish Mafia is staunchly pro-Israel. I think many folks would be surprised at the extent to which organized crime is an integral part of the contemporary political economy.
CITIZEN- A quote and a link.
“You made fun of me when I suggested that President Barack Obama would nominate a confessed bank scammer, a loan-sharking mortgage predator, to his cabinet. But thar she blows!” (Greg Palast)
link to dissidentvoice.org
STEPHEN SHENFIELD- “My only proviso is that Kovel is talking not about Zionists in general but about “liberal Zionists.”
Yes, indeed. In his book “Overcoming Zionism,” Kovel recounts a letter he received from a right-wing Rabbi who wrote that “you are correct that this incompatibility causes a bad conscience in otherwise liberal Jews. However, I am not a Liberal Jew, and I have no guilt feelings in this regard.” (p178)
Leave it to a PhD psychologist to make a huge Freudian slip. Are the “dogs” a subconscious expression of soldiers “that have been well cared for, loved, and protected all their lives,” now are the most easily trained to become what he previously describes as “vicious attack dogs?”
“The war in Afghanistan, the longest in the nation's history as well as in that of the U.S., has supplied NATO with an almost 12-year opportunity to consolidate an international military network and to develop the operational and command integration of the armed forces of almost 60 nations.” (Rick Rozoff)
link to dandelionsalad.wordpress.com
The above quote comes from a must read article on NATO by Rick Rizoff over at Dandelion Salad. The extent of NATO involvement in Afghanistan and elsewhere is not adequately discussed or accounted for. The transformation of NATO into a US controlled global strike force is shocking and has profound implications. This is global militarism on steroids. The Wall Street controlled US empire is establishing a high degree of control over much of the global military force, seeking ever more subordinate members into what can only be described as a global imperial military designed to achieve imperial objectives. This, along with other aspects of neoliberal global control, is unprecedented. We have entered uncharted territory, and the visible signs are ominous.
TREE- “May you should have read as well as looked at the picture.”
What? Read and think before I comment? Get serious!
If we put aside my tanks confusion and look at the rest of the comment, Phil is being more than a little disingenuous here by implying that he doesn’t “understand why this stuff gets published.” He doesn’t? He worked in the media and isn’t aware that most media filler stories are provided by public relations firms? That the economics of the “news” media require that they rely on freebies for the bulk of their material? Also, that among reporters, about 400 are CIA assets who plant stories (think Judith Miller)?
As for the Financial Times story itself, there is no real mystery why it was run. In my humble opinion, it was a superb piece of propaganda advancing imperial goals. They humanized an Orthodox Jew, showing that despite his unusual hair style and dress, that he danced to rock music ‘just like us,’ not at all like pious Muslims. It advances the “Clash of Civilizations” meme beautifully, while eliciting sympathy for Israeli Jews who, we can all see, like to dance and smile. What a guy! And it most certainly does not glorify the Lebanese war. Quite to the contrary, it subtly imbeds the war reference in the middle of the article to downplay and normalize the event. This isn’t bad reporting, this is skillful propaganda, the type we should expect from the Financial Times.
That is the story here, how the media is an integral part of manufacturing consent. Further, how in our political economy it could hardly be otherwise. Acting like this is some sort of deviation from the norm, rather than the norm, is a diversion from reality which must be confronted and dealt with.
And as for Mondo fantasies about the liberating potential of the internet, I provide a link to a review of Robert Mc Chesney’s new book, “Digital Disconnect.”
link to counterpunch.org
For a live interview of McChesney, here is the link to Democracy Now.
link to dandelionsalad.wordpress.com
PHIL- “Imagine if religious Christians were dancing on tanks firing on Baghdad?”
What tanks? I saw a van, but no tanks.
“I don't understand why this stuff gets published.”
You don’t understand why the media publishes elite propaganda? Good lord, man, it is what the media does to earn a profit. And the biggest lie of all is that there is such a thing as “objective” journalism.
MRW- “You would have to be a scientific idiot to swallow the ‘jet fuel fire brought down the towers’ story.”
This from the guy who thinks that global warming is a hoax, that Jim Hansen is incompetent and a NASA joke, that extra atmospheric CO2 is no big deal and may spur crop growth, and that Alberta tar sands are a safe, clean and cheap source of fuel with negligible environmental problems. And when it comes to the physics of building collapse, your source of scientific expertise is….a theologian? And, of course, numerous 911 truth websites that will tell you what you want to hear.
Read David Ray Griffin? No need, I saw his movie. I was looking forward to it. I was aware of the statements made by members of the Bush administration regarding the benefits of a new Pearl Harbor, and of the long history of covert “black ops,” and of Operation Northwoods, etc. I was of the opinion that the administration either knew or should have known about the attack beforehand, at least in general terms, and was guilty of at least criminal negligence. I wanted to see them held to account. The movie started out okay, but went downhill fast. Three buildings loaded with tons of high explosives? A missile not a plane into the Pentagon? It was obvious to me that DRG was pulling a Lyndon LaRouche by tainting straightforward failure (or worse) by associating it with bizarre scenarios. And it worked! Bush was never held to account as the 911 cult lemmings went chasing after nano-thermite. That was the beginning of the end for what was left of the left.
For those interested in the actual physics of the building collapses, go to Counterpunch website and search Manuel Garcia, Jr. for a scientifically valid discussion of this issue.
A couple of comments. First, I think this shows the extent to which American Jewish Zionists and Zionist organizations function as attack dogs against critics of US foreign policy, particularly Middle East foreign policy. This is what Chomsky and Herman describe as “flack” in the manufacture of consent. And if Israel’s influence on US Middle East policy is mentioned (and how could it not?), the criticism is falsely labeled as “anti-Semitism,” an effective tactic for condemning the author while avoiding discussing his specific critique. And notice the libelous falsehoods made without conscience or fear of retribution.
As for Falk’s specific comments, my main criticism would be that he is much too apologetic in regards to Obama, our much more effective war monger-in-chief. As for David Ray Griffin, in my opinion, he is to 911 Truth as Lyndon LaRouche is to American political economy in general. I might add that the LaRouchies are a core component of the 911 Truth movement.
NORMANF- “Israel’s Law Of Return is neither discriminatory nor unique….”
As I’m sure you are aware, Israel’s Law of Return is a code for “non-Jews need not apply.” It is an intellectually dishonest attempt to camouflage Israeli racism behind neutral sounding wording. A little too obvious to openly advertise “Jews only” benefits. Better to say that the laws do not discriminate against Arabs, rather, they merely conform to the Law of Return.
“You cannot make the Jew equal by saying here is the starting line and you can go from there.”
Jeez, are you saying that American Jews are a deprived minority, being held down by anti-Semitism? Gag me with a spoon! Any attempt to equalize Jewish wealth and power with that of non-Jews would be instantly labeled anti-Semitism and fought tooth and nail by the Jewish elite. You might care to check out the Forbes Israel thread. This is yet another attempt to claim victim-hood for an extremely privileged and powerful group.
“Building a European state outside of Europe meant the destruction, expulsion, or assimilation of indigenous people, what the historian Patrick Wolfe has called the “logic of elimination.”
We need to keep reminding ourselves of the extent to which Israel is a European creation, dependent upon US/European imperialism to maintain its essentially antagonistic relationship with the indigenous inhabitants and cultures. This is indirectly acknowledged by its falling under EUROCOM jurisdiction, rather than CENTCOM, which is responsible for the rest of the Middle East.
“Much of the energy that in the past would have found its home in student antiwar movements has migrated to the cause of Palestine. That is not without its problems: after all, children are gunned down by helicopter gunships in Afghanistan as surely as they are gunned down by snipers in the Gaza Strip.”
I fear that the ultimate consequence of the pro-Palestine movement may turn out to be as a distraction from the extremely important events taking place elsewhere. We are in the final stages of the awesomely destructive global neoliberal project which is concentrating wealth, power and social control in the hands of the financial elite, along with the other corporate fat-cats. The degree and manner of control is extensive and unique, difficult to even conceive of 50 years ago. We are facing imminent environmental, financial and social collapse, perhaps leading to terminal war. While the Palestinians are truly worthy victims, it is best not to ignore the big picture and the extreme threats to species survival.
DIANE MASON- I think it is worth adding, for those who don't follow your link, that the author of your quote is the late Israel Shahak.
DICKERSON3870- “In the wake of the Cold War, the Central Asian region is not only strategic for its extensive oil reserves, it also produces three quarters of the World’s opium representing multibillion dollar revenues to business syndicates, financial institutions, intelligence agencies and organized crime….”
Permit me to add some additional detail concerning how both narcotics and organized crime are integral features of our political economy. During the 2008 financial crisis, drug money was the primary source of bank liquidity: “Drugs money worth billions of dollars kept the financial system afloat at the height of the global crisis, the United Nations' drugs and crime tsar has told the Observer.”
link to guardian.co.uk
When Jews boast about Jewish wealth and power among themselves it is called Jewish pride. When Gentiles discuss Jewish wealth and power in public it is called anti-Semitism. Go figure.
GAMAL- “the idea that the civil rights of Black people have been achieved, with “Jewish” help, they must be so grateful….”
Not only that, but her statement that “…decades of unity between African-American and Jewish communities fighting racism and anti-Semitism….” is a blatant misrepresentation of reality. While some individual Jews have made great sacrifices, organized American Jewry ceased supporting affirmative action for Blacks decades ago. Nowadays, the big Jewish “civil rights” groups are fighting against “reverse discrimination” which gives “less qualified” minorities “unfair advantage” when competing against their white (Ashkenazi?) Brethren.
I originally made a much longer comment which didn’t survive moderation. We will see if this condensed version goes through.
PHIL- “We have power, including in the media (cf Stamberg, Lansing and Friedkin), our community organizations support the occupation, and neoconservatives were major players in a disastrous blunder, Iraq.”
I seriously doubt that this ongoing phenomenon has much to do with either the neocons or occupation. Rather, I think it is primarily an ongoing attempt to downplay Jewish power, period. Most Gentiles don’t know who is Jewish or not. Suddenly confronted with the disproportionate presence of Jews in the media and Jewish wealth would cause problems for the myth of meritocracy. Unless you truly believe that Jews are significantly superior to Gentiles, then that would raise questions about kinship and tribal solidarity. The notion of Jewish anti-Gentile discrimination might not go down well.
SEAFOID- “Egypt is ruled by a satrap, on the outer edges of one of the cores of Global capitalism. Bas. It does what it is told.”
Yes, and it is difficult to see what would change that. It is not just a question of this ruler versus that ruler, rather, the problem is that Egypt is thoroughly enmeshed within the global system with little opportunity for maneuver. Look at Cyprus, Greece, and the rest of the EU, the corporate promoted neoliberal policies are the same regardless of who is in government. It is happening in the US too, as Obama makes Reagan look like a socialist. At the time, I noted that Egypt lacked the wherewithal to break free of the global system, and the “revolution” would have little significant effect. Actually, it wasn’t a revolution at all, more like a bread riot. A true revolution would have made provisions for feeding and sustaining the citizenry, not be dependent upon IMF loans to import food.
“Since there is little in common religiously between Judaism in Israel and Judaism in the US, Jewishness in itself is not enough to sustain the umbilical cord between the two countries. To compensate for this schism (and for various other reasons) American Jews invented Birthright to ensure that the glue that holds Jewish communities together in the US is their engagement with, on and about Israel.” (Elisha Baskin)
Zionism has replaced Judaism as the unifier of World Jewry. In the US in particular, support for Israel is a means to an end, and that end is tribal kinship which begets organized power-seeking.