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Total number of comments: 51 (since 2010-06-10 18:05:15)

Oren

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  • The Birthright equation: Jewishness + Community = I &#9829 Israel
  • From Shatila Camp-- What does the right of return mean in 2010?
  • Sabbath in Jerusalem
    • Oren July 30, 2010 at 2:53 pm

      yes, it's interesting that shunra attempted to define a clearly hebrew word by it's arabic cognate, which meaning is so different that it is represented by a completely different root word. i believe that is called "irony", which is also known as feigned ignorance.

    • Oren July 30, 2010 at 2:47 pm with 3 replies

      correction: the roots of "islam" and "shalom" are cognate, while "muslim" and "canaanite" share semantic origins, namely having to do with being submissive.

    • Oren July 30, 2010 at 2:36 pm with 16 replies

      it is interesting because "muslim" in arabic is cognate to "canaanite" in hebrew.

    • Oren July 30, 2010 at 2:24 pm with 1 replies

      to be clear, shunra, i wish you "shalom", not the oppressive kind you imagine but true completeness, perfection, and inner peace.

    • Oren July 30, 2010 at 2:20 pm

      Shunra also claims:

      1. There’s nothing holy about it (that "shabbat" feeling)

      2. participation is not optional.

      3. it (shabbat) is imposed by a violent group.

      shmuel, since you speak for shunra, please explain the basis of these claims.

    • Oren July 30, 2010 at 2:10 pm with 4 replies

      shmuel,

      my job is to make sure there is no ambiguity about the meaning of "shalom".

      allow me (an arabic speaker) to enlighten you.

      source: The Canaanites and Their Land (1991) by Niels Peter Lemche, pp. 26

    • Oren July 30, 2010 at 1:42 pm with 6 replies

      shunra, you are mistaken: shalom in hebrew means "peace, completeness, and welfare and can be used idiomatically to mean both hello and goodbye".

      as i'm sure you know, only in arabic does this root have the meaning of "submission", as in "islam".

      interestingly, the hebrew word for submission "kniya'ah" shares its root with the people named "canaanites"

    • Oren July 30, 2010 at 10:08 am with 1 replies

      beautiful... but the silence of comments is deafening.

  • IHH report on the freedom flotilla
    • Oren June 29, 2010 at 3:33 pm with 5 replies

      hayate,
      If the intent was to kill, why board the ship? why not just rocket it from the air, or spray the machine guns from a distance? seems quite unnecessary to put themselves in harms way so they can be beaten with metal rods and stabbed with knives. Heck, they could have even torpedoed the ship. Personally, if I was commanding the operation, I would have unleashed a pack of frothy rabid saber-tusked wild hayate boars on the deck, which would have for sure caused death from sheer disgust no less. especially the female ones...

  • The 'one state' conversation continues
    • Oren June 24, 2010 at 4:30 pm

      Ahmad, I am extremely pleased to see the conversation continue.

      It has less to do with purebloods than a culture of resistance and embracing struggle as a value.

      I find this so interesting. Palestinian nationalism blessed as a culture of resistance and embracing struggle as it's value. Where have I heard this before?

      In the bible, Jacob is encountered by a being and struggles with him through the night, until daybreak. Finally, Jacob declares "I will not let you go until you bless me" and he is blessed as "Israel, for you have striven with G-d and Man and have prevailed".

      Israel literally means "to strive with G-d", whereas Islam literally means "to submit" to G-d.

      To me, this reduction of the Palestinian national character correlates more with that of Israel rather than anything else. Provocative, yes, but Israel and Palestine certainly do have a shared character which should be focused on by the proponents of a single state.

      For example, the many peoples that came to the united states had one common characteristic: they were refugees of societies where religion dominated their governments.

      Israel and Palestine may find another thing in common in that sense. the Hebrew word for refugees is "Plitim", not such a far stretch from "Palestine". When I saw sudanese seeking refuge in Israel, it hit me: Israel surely is a state of refugees. Welcome to Medinat Plitim...

  • Chomsky in Lebanon
    • Oren June 17, 2010 at 12:50 pm

      okay Shmuel, you got me... i'm leaving for the day. but now that i'm gone, what will you do?

    • Oren June 17, 2010 at 12:34 pm

      you know, if Chomsky stands for anything, its cleaning your own house. he occupies himself with issues that are a direct result of american action (or inaction). when I see people who direct their energies at cleaning other peoples houses, I am certain that it is to distract themselves from their own messy lives.

    • Oren June 17, 2010 at 12:15 pm

      Shmuel,
      I deny your accusation of trolling. I am not posting inflammatory statements. I am trying to accurately measure the motivations and intentions of certain commentators.

    • Oren June 17, 2010 at 11:45 am

      Frances, hatred exists all over the world and it is not exclusive to the Jews. Naturally, I agree that it's not okay to brutally oppress anyone. Jews should be more aware than anyone when it comes to recognizing injustice, but sadly it goes on. Making it clear is the most urgent priority.

    • Oren June 17, 2010 at 11:39 am

      shmuel, I'm still waiting for some more of your relevant biblical exegesis...

    • Oren June 17, 2010 at 11:37 am with 11 replies

      Miss Dee, although many will disagree with your characterization of a middle eastern personality, you will not witness:
      - wide scale violent protests in the street
      - death warrants
      - savage murders
      - state wide boycott of facebook and other popular social websites

    • Oren June 17, 2010 at 10:41 am

      Frances, is it unwarranted? History is nothing but murder, pogroms, massacres, holocaust for the Jewish people. This is not an Israeli memory, this is Jewish History. Zion was the fortress of David in Jerusalem. Zionism is the protection that we seek, from the world that only wants to destroy us.

    • Oren June 17, 2010 at 10:27 am with 12 replies

      I just want to point out that Israel has a shield on their flag. Other flags in the region have things like swords and AK-47s...

    • Oren June 17, 2010 at 10:22 am

      I'm sorry, I didn't know you were born without a sense of humor. however, I'm glad you are good at insulting people, because that's useful when you drive alot, seeing you are a cabbie and all.

    • Oren June 17, 2010 at 10:01 am with 2 replies

      matter, thank you for that thorough analysis although it is difficult to read when my computer monitor is constantly floating upwards into the air... I guess all the hot air is causing some kind of Archemedian effect...

    • Oren June 17, 2010 at 9:51 am

      Haha, thanks for validating my suspicions... you deny the claims of modern day Jews to the land of Israel. That's okay, but I want you to do me a favor... google Salam Fayyad, and look at a picture of him real real closely. now ask yourself, how is it that he looks so much like Ben Stein?

      :-)

    • Oren June 17, 2010 at 9:22 am

      If Zionism is measured as the return to one's homeland (this is the core of Zionism), then you are saying the Palestinian right of return is unacceptable.

      "Palestinians are ... Zionists??"

      yes, the Jews came from Judea, hence the name Jews.

  • One possible framework for a single state in Israel/Palestine
  • Let's get the facts straight on Hamas
    • Oren June 14, 2010 at 12:30 pm with 1 replies

      sorry, this statement: "Rockets have sporadically been fired into Israeli territory since then, but they have been claimed by other groups within Gaza and have killed one person, a Thai foreign worker."

    • Oren June 14, 2010 at 12:28 pm with 2 replies

      please tell me, why did you have to qualify this statement by describing the nationality of the victim?

  • Ads promoting one democratic state pop up in Ramallah
    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 5:38 pm

      "the mentalities of the people on the street have to change – how do you do this?"

      I think about this all the time. you have to build a bomb that is not made of uranium, but words of truth. its sad... these people are fighting over which story gets to be told. but the story has already become their fighting.

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 5:33 pm

      I guess you're right... my #1 fight, as a jew or an arab, should be to address the fears of my own people. maybe a political party could be established with those goals, addressing the fears of their own people on each respective side. that means, a jew cannot address the fears of the arabs and vice versa, but the group is united in fighting for each other on their own respective sides.

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 5:21 pm

      maybe a good first step would be for those of both sides who sincerely agree to a 1 state solution to sit together, list their respective fears and lay out a plan to address those fears. the holy land is a place full of meanings, and in order for the people to live free of conflict, their meanings must be free of conflict. mondoweiss is right when they say "its a war of ideas in the middle east"

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 5:12 pm

      i guess what i meant was that it should be founded on the basis of values that intersect all abrahamic faiths, which comprise the various lenses through which people view the land... the holy land. i suppose it would be more correct to say universal hebrew values.

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 5:03 pm

      maybe this is a job cut out for the honest Palestinian leadership, if that is indeed their concern. if i was a palestinian, this would be my #1 fight... to address the fears of my neighbors.

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 4:54 pm

      yep, i agree with you. thanks for the volley.

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 4:31 pm

      I think I understand what you are saying. what is the meaning of "Israel". There is a little bit of ambiguity in the description of Israel as being a "Jewish State".

      one interpretation, which I think is the current interpretation, is that Israel is a state full of jews.

      the second interpretation, which I think needs to be emphasized, is that Israel could be a state that exemplifies universal jewish values (eg equality, tikkun olam, most of the good american stuff) and not necessarily a state full of jews. after all, no one can agree on who is/isnt a jew.

      interpreting Israel to be a jewish state in the latter context could be a good start to getting to step 1.

      also, i find many parallels between zionism and the palestinian struggle to return. there has to be a way to connect both those struggles together to have a meaning that could exemplify Israel.

      so basically, its a problem of modifying the meaning of Israel, and maybe a company like google could have the resources to provide the marketing necessary to accomplish this.

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 4:02 pm

      i agree and hope that this can be accomplished soon.

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 4:00 pm with 6 replies

      i'm saying that for anyone, arab or jew, to have a vote in the country, they must serve in the army or some other way. that way they are equal citizens. just giving someone a job could be the best solution. as franklin roosevelt said: "I propose to create a Civilian Conservation Corps to be used in simple work, more important, however, than the material gains will be the moral and spiritual value of such work." also "No Country, however rich, can afford the waste of its human resources. Demoralization caused by vast unemployment is our greatestextravagance. Morally, it is the greatest menace to our social order."

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 3:46 pm

      then the problem is how to accomplish this... establishing complete equality without civil war. Thanks Shmuel.

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 2:55 pm

      i didn't know hezbollah was so pluralistic?

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 2:51 pm with 13 replies

      I may be naive but it seems to me like the 1 state solution is the only way to go. if the jews are going to claim that they are the only ones who get to live in the state of israel, then it should be renamed to the state of judah. otherwise, its time to make room for at least 11 more tribes.
      what i am asking is this: how do we make it a one state democracy with equal rights, and not have it turn into an islamic republic?

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 2:42 pm with 2 replies

      I only suggested it because it would prevent something like lebanon where hezbollah has a significant place in the gov.

    • Oren June 10, 2010 at 2:12 pm with 10 replies

      okay, I'm pretty much at zero when it comes to politics and democracy, so I don't know if the following idea will be super offensive to some people, but I'm laying it out because I'm very curious if someone has thought of it or where the caveats exist... anyways, here it is:

      what if...? Israel annexed the west bank/gaza, gave full citizenship to all, equal rights, one state blah blah.... but made it so suffrage was conditional on national service, either through the military or some other kind of work that is based on national allegiance.

      basically, the right to vote is granted upon completion of some kind of national service.

      that way, the "demographic shock" would be abated as 5 million non-jews become part of the democracy.

      just curious, whats wrong with this idea? thanks

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