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Total number of comments: 3788 (since 2010-01-30 17:02:32)

Sumud

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  • 'Obama will only go as far on Iran as AIPAC permits him to go'
    • Sumud May 26, 2012 at 2:42 am

      Right you are Annie - I said very few because I recall that there were a few there but I couldn't recall who, and was feeling a little too lazy to look it up :-)

      As of now there are no countries that have their Embassy in Jerusalem – there have been about a dozen in the past which have now all moved out.

      Apparently South Sudan announced last year that they will locate their embassy in Jerusalem - hardly an auspicious start for that country.

    • Sumud May 25, 2012 at 7:05 pm with 3 replies

      Not Tel Aviv Les, but occupied Jerusalem.

      Israel has been asking countries to move their embassies to Jerusalem for ages but very few have and *nobody* recognises Israel's unilateral annexation of Jerusalem from the early 80s.

    • Sumud May 25, 2012 at 6:51 pm

      It's all too repulsive lysias - Madeline Albright, the witch who said that the US thinks having 500,000 Iraqi children killed "is worth it", gets a medal from Obama.

  • Because of all my father and mother did to liberate Europe (I go to the West Bank)
    • Sumud May 25, 2012 at 6:10 pm

      If this sort of trend continues in a few years Germans might start claiming that their particular ancestor was an anti Nazi who fought in the” German Resistance” just like the French do sometimes.

      There would be at least several hundred thousand Germans who could rightly make that claim Oleg.

      I presume you have German resistance in quotes to mock the concept. Why don't you start to educate yourself and actually read the information in the link. Note it is 'German resistance' not 'German Resistance'.

      Once you've read that you can forget it all then come back and tell us again that:

      Nazi Germany and it’s civilian population fairly earned all the calamities that befell upon them and much more in my opinion.

      I shudder to think what the "much more" you have fantasised about for German civilians involves.

      Meanwhile on that same thread you write about what you see as the powerless of the individual against a regime like that of the Third Reich )and that's why think Israel is a necessity for jews).

      Your ethics are so full of contradictions and inconsistency Oleg.

  • Why 'Brand Israel' is failing
    • Sumud May 24, 2012 at 8:14 am

      Danon said: “The infiltrators are a national plague and we must deport them immediately before it’s too late – the Sudanese can go back to Sudan and the rest should be deported to other countries in Africa and Eastern Europe.”

      The Eights Stages of Genocide:

      "Stage 3 - Dehumanization
      Characteristic: One group denies the humanity of the other group. Members of it are equated with animals, vermin, insects, or diseases.
      Preventive measures: Local and international leaders should condemn the use of hate speech and make it culturally unacceptable. Leaders who incite genocide should be banned from international travel and have their foreign finances frozen."

      Let us see what Barack Obama has to say about fellow Africans being compared to diseases by prominent Israeli politicians... Will he grow a spine or just throw ever more taxpayer money at Israel?

      I tell you, Israelis are being primed for the final zionist push to push Palestinians out of Palestine.

    • Sumud May 24, 2012 at 8:06 am

      I think if Israel had just accepted the 55% the partition offered them and not undertaken the Nakba, Israel/Palestine would be a non-issue now and it would have been that way for many years now.

      War in 1947/48/49 was not inevitable, it was a war of choice for Israel because her leaders were fixated on possessing all of Palestine; non-jewish arab Palestinians were an impediment to their goal. Many many Palestinian villages made non-aggression pacts with their jewish neighbours which the zionist forces then violated...

  • 'Where is my children’s democracy?' The Jilani family speaks out two years after the execution of Ziad
    • Sumud May 24, 2012 at 7:15 am

      Considering the howls for blood from posters here when an Israeli accidentally hit a Palestinian and then drove away from the angry mob that was attacking his car before he even hit the kid, I’d think you could understand how a hit and run can be misinterpreted.

      Feel free to link to some of those "howls for blood" Fredblogs, I'm interested to see them.

  • Passive-aggressive George Bush namechecks neocons for getting us into that mess
    • Sumud May 23, 2012 at 4:31 am

      Also a money-hungry war-profiteer pig – recall he was head of Halliburton.

      While the neocons should be centre stage in any discussion of the GWOT so too should the military industrial complex: the manufactures of death machinery (AKA 'defence' contractors) with their billion dollar no-bid contracts, and the manufacturers of consent, the media. It's often the same company anyway (e.g. NBC is owned by GE) and then there is the whole revolving door between the military and government, and the private sector.

      The GWOT is a ruse for Israel and a gigantic scam designed to pump massive amounts of taxpayers money into the hands of very few.

    • Sumud May 23, 2012 at 4:18 am with 1 replies

      Wolfowitz. Feith. Bush. all of them.

      Clinton and Albright also.

      Don't forget the UN sanctions on Iraq post Gulf War 1 which killed at least 500,000 Iraqi children by 1996. Two to three times what Sadaam was responsible for.

      From 1990 to now the US is responsible for the death of about 2 million Iraqis, fully 1/3 of the jewish holocaust. Iraqs population is only about 30 million.

      Can you imagine if a foreign country killed about 30 million Americans over 2 decades? That is the equivalent, population-wise, of what has been done to Iraq.

      Those responsible need to be held accountable.

  • Latest video'd settler shooting could defuse third rail in US discourse
    • Sumud May 23, 2012 at 6:25 am

      I'm not at all surprised by what you say seafoid.

      I interact with (white) South Africans from time to time in my job, and while I don't like to make generalisations there is on occasion an arrogance in their attitude that I think is probably cultural baggage from the days of apartheid.

      The racism inherent in the Global War on Terror is pretty awful also...

  • The Messiah's Donkey: Settlers fire on Palestinian villagers as the Israeli military watches
    • Sumud May 24, 2012 at 6:53 am

      but jews have a long history in middle east

      Of course ~ longer than any christians and muslims :-)

      It's a stupid and pointless line of argument introduced by Oleg, and I responded in turn.

      I advocate for a single post-colonial state, with equal rights for all... Definitely not "the suitcase or the coffin", but I do fear it will come to that if the growing madness (insanity, not anger) among zionists is not checked soon.

    • Sumud May 23, 2012 at 7:50 am

      I thinks that’s why there are so many “indigenous” Palestinians with the last name El Matzri right Sumud ?

      Is that you Joan Peters?

      I know of El Masris here in Australia and they hail from Lebanon not Egypt.

      Do you really want to go down that route - with a PM whose *real* name is Benjamin Mileikowsky, a Deputy PM and FM imported from a nightclub in Soviet Russia, Kadima's new leader born in Iran and Eli Yishai's parents born in Tunisia...?

      Oleg – that doesn't sound very middle eastern does it...?

    • Sumud May 23, 2012 at 4:03 am

      Someones presence is an act of violence? Really! Wow.

      Don't play dumb Samuel T.

      If Egypt invaded Israel and started settling hundreds of thousands of Egyptians all over Israel, after driving Israeli jews into the sea at gunpoint (like the zionists did to Palestinians in Jaffa in 1948) I think you'd get it pretty fast.

      The settlement and occupation of the West Bank and Gaza is maintained by Israel's military forces. The West Bank by troops on the ground, Gaza by troops on the border, in the air, and on the seas.

      It is a m-i-l-i-t-a-r-y o-c-c-u-p-a-t-i-o-n.

      It is the presence of the military – who use force and the threat of force (i.e. violence) that makes the presence of the illegal settlers possible.

    • Sumud May 23, 2012 at 3:44 am

      I refuse to look at the settlement of Jews in their historic homeland as an immoral/illegal/violent act and this is axiomatic for me.

      That phrase is hasbara; "historic homeland" has no legal meaning. Property rights, on the other hand...

      The settler's presence in occupied Palestine is a violation of the Geneva Convention. End of story.

      More than likely their "historic homeland" is Brooklyn, or Eastern Europe –or Iraq.

      There's nothing special about jews that means a few hundred years in Palestine a few thousand years gives all their descendants perpetual claims on the land, and to suggest there is, is absurd.

    • Sumud May 22, 2012 at 6:08 am

      Because when violence is on the table i will side with Itzhar as matter of pure reflex.

      Spoken like a true war criminal.

    • Sumud May 22, 2012 at 6:07 am

      The fact that some settlers in Itzhar hold radical views is still not an excuse for violence Shmuel .

      The view of the settlers are irrelevant Oleg – legally, Palestinians have the right to use militant force against the occupiers of their territory.

      They don't need an "excuse" and they don't need your approval or permission.

      While I think Palestinians are best served by employing non-violent tactics I won't condemn rock throwing.

      Shmuel is right, the responsibility of the IDF under the Geneva Conventions is to protect Palestinians, not settlers who should not be there in the first place.

  • Aharon Appelfeld's rage at the German language (and Arendt's need for it)
    • Sumud May 21, 2012 at 5:33 am with 1 replies

      Appelfeld's description of German as "the language of the murderers" is plain old racism.

      It is one thing to say "I can't speak in German anymore, it is too painful" and it is a whole other thing to say German is "the language of the murderers". It is much more than that.

      There was pockets of German resistance before and during the war. The nazis did their best to destroy them – and they succeeded.

  • Feeling the hate in Long Island
    • Sumud May 24, 2012 at 6:58 am

      Not to dangerous fugitives who make themselves safer to kill than to capture.

      He made videos. Very dangerous!!!

    • Sumud May 22, 2012 at 3:01 am

      If they want due process they are free to surrender peacefully.

      The American father of the American cleric in Yemen who was murdered by the American government petitioned for due process for his son *before* the assassination – and that was rejected.

      There was no surrender option.

    • Sumud May 22, 2012 at 2:58 am

      Until someone is in the hands of the government, it is the executive branch’s perogative to kill them if they are dangerous and can’t be captured safely.

      Why am I not surprised that a zionist doesn't believe in one of the fundamental tenets of western liberal democracy – "innocent until proven guilty"?

      I suppose you're also in favour of governments holding political prisoners (ie. administrative detention)...?

    • Sumud May 21, 2012 at 4:02 am

      It’s not so much copyrights in particular as that the President is trying to make an end run around a Constitutional limitation on his rightful powers.

      I'm surprised that you mention Obama and copyright but not that Obama have given himself permission to kill American citizens without any sort of due process or judicial oversight.

      Isn't that rather more pressing?!?

  • Monumental Dutch exhibit: Zionism built 'a house, a cage, a UN shelter... a zoo'
  • 'King Bibi' is ready for his close up, and 'Time' is willing to oblige
  • A London interruption
    • Sumud May 17, 2012 at 6:22 am

      Who was oppressing them?

      Why the Palestinians of course! Merely by existing.

      The zionists needed their lebensraum after all.

    • Sumud May 17, 2012 at 6:14 am

      They had to ship in the population AFTERWARDS.

      And, they waited until Britain announced they were leaving before launching their "War of Independence" – fought nearly entirely on the offensive, ie. while invading the Palestinian partition.

      Just dumb!

    • Sumud May 16, 2012 at 5:15 pm with 3 replies

      Indeed.

      Israel's "War of Independence" is pure hasbara.

  • Over the Wall
    • Sumud May 16, 2012 at 5:38 am

      Most of us can’t imagine the horror of being completely dispossessed, suddenly living in a donated tent while the world looks away.

      Right you are.

      The most vivid representation of what followed the nakba that I've seen is the early 50s short film called Sands of Sorrow.

      I've linked to it many times before; sorry to those who have already seen it.

      The most shocking thing in the whole vid for me is not a particular image or scene, but at one point we are told the infant mortality in the refugee camps is 80% – that's how hellish the nakba was. For every 5 children born, 4 died.

      It's too hideous, and 65 years later the nakba still hasn't ended.

  • Exporting the occupation: Israel markets its drone expertise to the world
    • Sumud May 16, 2012 at 5:02 am

      Leave us alone already otherwise we might have to develop some other new and exciting product.

      Leave Israel Alone!

      How about you all go home to Israel giladg?

      Stop the occupation, leave the Palestinians alone.

      Then we can talk.

    • Sumud May 16, 2012 at 4:51 am

      Israel's adopted business model of manufacturing weapons and death machinery is only going to give fodder to people like Mel Gibson – remember his comment about the jews starting wars?

      So obviously his statement is rubbish but Israel, rather than 'the jews', really is unhealthily fond of war. And war is not a renewable resource – not even the bogus Global War On Terror.

  • 'The Nakba is BS': Right-wing Israelis protest student-run Nakba commemoration at Tel Aviv U
  • West Virginia newspaper: 'Apartheid imposed on Palestinians'
    • Sumud May 16, 2012 at 4:30 am

      It has nothing to do with apartheid and destinay has been in Palestinian hands.

      Total BS.

      People living under military occupation have no meaningful control over their lives, period. The same for refugees.

      And before we hear any more about how dreadful Palestinians are in comparison to black South Africans (a racist statement in itself) let us remember apartheid SA existed for only ~40 years. In comparison Palestinian oppression is into it's seventh decade.

      AND – playing down this point is a staple of hasbara – Palestinians are entitled to use violence in self-defence. Israel always describes this as terrorism whether the targets are military or civilian – meanwhile for every Israeli child killed Israel kills *at least* 10 Palestinian children.

      giladg – why are Israelis so into killing children? It's not even in self defence, just to perpetuate the occupation. To steal land. Evil.

    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 4:55 pm

      If the Palestinians want to learn from the Blacks in South Africa, and they can learn a lot, then lookup the words “Reconciliation” and “Recognition”.

      Back to the rapist demanding the victim learn to love them before they will stop raping them.

      Tell me giladg – did the Truth and Reconciliation Commission in S. Africa occur before or after apartheid was abolished?

    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 4:51 pm

      What is happening in the “west bank” has nothing to do with apartheid.

      Oh really...?

      Are West Bank illegal settlers and West Bank Palestinians ruled by the same legal system?

      Do West Bank illegal settlers and West Bank Palestinians have the same rights?

      Are West Bank illegal settlers and West Bank Palestinians permitted to vote in Israeli elections?

      No, on all three counts.

      Apartheid. The Crime of Apartheid.

    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 8:21 am with 1 replies

      Up to five now - and four of the comments seem like they were written by crackheads – or rather: just one crackhead re-posting under different names.

      Hilarity ensues:

      'Israel has sovereign rights in the West Bank by Right of Conquest.'
      'Loss of territory is the price of losing a war.'
      'He [Tutu] is a known Palestinian sympathizer and closet anti-semite, much like the editorial board of the Gazette.'
      'Israel, a peace loving western democracy surrounded by ravenous packs of feral humans has defended itself from the latter in four major conflicts...'
      'By defending itself Israel has merely taken in a little more of its traditional homeland.'
      'The whole issue boils down to liberals being in league with muslims...'
      'The gazette would have fit in nicely with the 1930's Nazi propaganda machine whipping up hatred for Jews.'
      'Did these same countries inflict death and destruction on the indigenous residents--American Indians? ... Yet, now all that is forgotten and Liberals condem Israel for the same acts.'
      'One of the best sources of history is the Bible.'
      'The Palestinians joined forces with other Arab countries to again conquer Israel. However, all were defeated in the 7 Day War.'
      'Possibly the message for Palestinians is don't start a war to take over another's land & whine when you loose!'
      'The editorial board of the GAZ is "out of the closet" with its anti-semitism.'
      'They wail over checkpoints and restrictions on the Palestinians but seem okay with the Palenistians efforts to kill all the jews.'

      My personal faves? The "ravenous packs of feral humans", Israel merely taking "in a little more of its traditional homeland" while defending itself (oops!), the frank but accidental admission Israel is inflicting death and destruction on the indigenous residents of Palestine (not funny, because it is true), and the "7 Day War". When was that again?

      I swear I laughed as much reading those comments as the "orgy in the desert" article also up on MW today.

      Total hasbara meltdown, will do the exact opposite of what is intended.

  • Israel still holds 1000s of political prisoners, including 27 Palestinian members of Parliament
  • Report: Palestinian prisoners reach deal to end historic hunger strike
    • Sumud May 18, 2012 at 2:47 am

      Good to see that Holocaust denial is alive and well on here by way of lame comparisons.

      How about you just answer my question and stop deflecting with nonsense claims about holocaust denial?

      Please tell me: do you consider the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising as a terrorist attack?

      I have more to say on this but answer my question first pls.

    • Sumud May 18, 2012 at 2:45 am

      Trying to sneak a bomb across a border and getting caught is a thwarted terrorist attack.

      What border? Tapuah Junction is deep within the occupied West Bank.

      It doesn't matter what the bombs are for: Palestinians have the legal right to militant self-defence – period. Until they attack soldiers or civilians it is not an attack at all – period.

      Again, you might not like it but too bad for you. Israelis who think they deserve to be able to occupy and oppress a people for decades after decade with no consequences or repercussions are just a little bit dense...

    • Sumud May 17, 2012 at 6:04 am

      Possessing a bomb is not a terrorist attack (May 10). Palestinians have the right to militant self-defence and that includes possessing and using bombs. Maybe you don't like that – "tough titties" to you.

      As for the Qassam on May 15th – that would be a maybe. Again – Palestinians have the right to militant self defence.

      Please tell me: do you consider the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising as a terrorist attack?

    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 8:30 am with 7 replies

      So 2 months from now, when they catch these prisoners plotting terrorist attacks...

      Fredblogs what is the most recent "terrorist attack" Israel suffered?

  • 'Orgy in the desert' fails to wed young Jewish woman to Zionism
    • Sumud May 16, 2012 at 9:00 am

      I think they should set up ghettoes.

      Hold on - that's a typo right? You meant to say "don't think they should...", right??

      I agree. I live near one of the big housing commission blocks in Melbourne with a large African population, a lot of Sudanese and Somali refugees. Because it's housing commission (public housing for non-Aussies) there is a clustering of population. I don't know if you'd call it a ghetto though...

      If I am not already on record for this, I’ll say now that I much prefer slim, smart immigrants to fat, stupid, brogans.

      You must have good genes. We'll let the bogans interbreed themselves out of existence :-)

    • Sumud May 16, 2012 at 4:15 am

      We're pretty much on the same page RoHa, except I haven't really encountered any multiculturalists who would actually encourage immigrants to 'ghettoise' themselves [my shorthand words not yours].

      I think we should go fairly easy on 1st generation immigrants, especially economic immigrants or refugees – it's not easy for them. Everyone knows the story of someone who was a doctor or professional in their home country and they land here and end up unemployed or in some menial job that is nowhere near tapping their intelligence or capabilities. Things will be different for their children. Everyone should have to learn English, and beyond that they should be free to integrate as little or as much as they want. I have in mind especially refugees. I think they've probably been through enough already.

      Thinking of something like the Cronulla Riots – that had as much to do with idiot racist white bogans thinking they epitomise "Australian", as any immigrants integrating or not.

    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 9:55 am

      Obviously she is someone who wouldn’t have a problem telling her parents that there was no happy Israeli end to her trip.

      Well – there was a happy ending for Matt.

    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 7:46 am

      Damn funny.

    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 7:32 am

      maybe, being australian and all..you just do not recognize yourself as an ethnic being. but you do seem to recognize what’s NOT australian. you’ve got one, you better believe you’ve got one. your so full up on the media’s idea of what’s jewish (barbara/bagels) you’ve failed to identify what it means to you outside of that. think harder.

      I will chip in here having not read the previous thread, so pls forgive me in advance :-)

      I don't think of 'Australian' as an ethnicity but a nationality. The only authentic "ethnic" Australians are I guess aborigines. I think of Australia – and similarly the US and Canada – as multicultural 'new world' nations composed mostly of immigrants. We are lucky in that we can easily shed a lot of the old ethnic conflicts that belong to the 'old world' - e.g. Europe, or Asia, or the ME, or Africa etc.

      It is much easier for our nations to be multicultural because of the whole 'melting pot' concept. This is also inextricably tied up with post-colonialism - the responsibilities of the new world countries to make amends for the impact that settlement had on the indigenous population.

      Just looking around on wiki I found this Annie - a list of Australian ethnicities:

      Demographics of Australia / Ethnicities

      No plain old ethnicity "Australian" - always the hyphenated one!

      Anyway to bring this back to I/P – when Israel transitions to a single state with equal rights it will also become in my mind a new world country, on account of the way it was settled since 1947. It will have to go through exactly the same transition our countries have or are undertaking from colonial to post-colonial.

      A long way to go indeed.

  • The neocon machine
    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 7:53 am

      I think the people are getting a bit fed up with Australian troops being sent to fight useless wars, so they might object.

      That, or watch MasterChef.

  • On the sidewalk in Hamburg-- 'Hier wohnte'
    • Sumud May 16, 2012 at 4:31 pm

      Nazi Germany Sumud Nazi Germany.

      ??

      I asked you a serious question Oleg. Are you going to answer sensibly?

    • Sumud May 16, 2012 at 9:55 am

      Reading back I come across Klaus' simple smart statement about how he has as a German digested what occurred in Germany 3/4 of a century ago:

      I always thought we can only cleanse ourselves from the Nazi crimes by being different from them.

      Whereas Oleg the Israeli jew of European descent tells us that he has no sympathy for German civilians in WW2 and that they deserved what they got and more. Also the world is a horrid place and no-one cares about human suffering.

      Compare and contrast.

      Oleg, if you don't like what happened during the holocaust, why, Why, WHY adopt the mentality of the perpetrators?

    • Sumud May 16, 2012 at 9:20 am

      i have very little sympathy to German civilian casualties in WW2

      See how zionism damages people?

      Oleg tells us on this thread that the world is indifferent to human suffering but he is the only one claiming killing civilians is OK – even an acceptable form of justice – because of some biblical quote.

      There's always someone somewhere to justify anything. Hey wasn't it the jews that cause Germany to lose WW1?

      Hosea 8:7

      “For they sow the wind
      And they reap the whirlwind.”

      Et voila, problem solved. Right?

      Poor Oleg thinks the world is so awful but can't join the dots and see how he projects his world view onto everybody else.

    • Sumud May 16, 2012 at 3:52 am

      Well Klaus we don’t remember the Holocaust for the early years now do we?

      Right - rallies and demonstrations in Israel with people screaming "death to arabs" and you seem to think no-one should be concerned or alarmed.

      On this very thread you are telling us about your tragic outlook on life ("The world is largely indifferent to human suffering."), and then you critics others for not being as jaded as yourself?

      Maybe it is just you who are indifferent to the suffering of others .

    • Sumud May 16, 2012 at 3:40 am

      But there was no such thing in pre-war Germany. The Warsaw Ghetto was in occupied Poland.

      Of course Klaus, you are correct. I was speaking in a general sense about the comparison; ie. that genocide occurs in sequential stages as outlined in the wiki link above – and that Israel is on that pathway.

      I'm not saying Israel's treatment of Palestinians is comparable to the shoah – which Oleg can't seem to grasp – but that the warehousing of people in Gaza is comparable to Warsaw Ghetto, and that the related treatment of jews in pre-war nazi Germany is also comparable, within reason.

      I think you might disagree about that last point but the similarities for me have to do with the demonisation of the other, property theft, dual-legal structures, attacks by military etc.

      One thing for sure – Israelis will never be able to say they didn't know what was happening. Everyone has a camera now and can easily publish via social media, blogs, facebook, twitter, YT etc.

    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 9:32 am

      Sure i can it’s a matter of proportion.

      Typical zionist short term thinking.

      The attitude you have – coupled with Israel's actual behaviour – is one of the reasons Israel is doomed in the medium to long term.

      And you know what? Because Israel's behaviour is so repulsive, most people will be glad to see the end of it. It didn't have to be this way, but zionist greed for Palestinian land created the Nakba and 45 years of brutal military occupation following 1967. Now the settlers are in place in such large quantities the occupation will never end by withdrawal. Right-wing ziobots are calling for a single state and they will get their wish – only the world will never accept such an apartheid state.

      It's a perfect storm.

    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 6:50 am

      Universal application of principles is a good ideal.
      But i am not an idealist.
      My loyalties lie with my /family/friends/tribe/compatriots/ first and the rest of humanity second.

      You can't have it both ways Oleg.

      If you say "My loyalties lie with my /family/friends/tribe/compatriots/ first" then the second half of your statement is entirely redundant.

      You can't claim to have any loyalty to the "rest of humanity" when your tribe is continuously attacking them in order to steal land and property, and has been since 1948.

    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 6:39 am with 16 replies

      You can plainly see the nazi attitudes towards the Jews turn harsher and harsher as time went on. ..they went from denouncing Jews in the beginning as mostly undesirables and as’ impurities’ (non Aryans) in Germany to calling them ”enemies of the state” ..when the enemies of the state meme took hold that became their justification for the camps and killings.

      So on another thread Oleg hit the roof because I compared the Gaza Ghetto to the Warsaw Ghetto but it remains a valid comparison and Israel is currently where nazi German was in the pre-war 'pre-exterminist' years – and heading along the same path.

      Palestinians are identified as enemies of the Israeli state. The hot rounds of ethnic cleansing occurred in 1948 and 1967 – mass looting and theft of Palestinian property and material goods. The borders are sealed up. Gaza civilians are enduring a cruel siege and simultaneous attack by the IDF with battlefield weapons, killing thousands since Israel "withdrew" in the mid-2000s. Settlers attacking Palestinians with tacit approval of the IDF. The Palestinian economy deliberately strangled. Regular reports of rallies on the streets of Israeli cities with the youth shouting ''death to arabs". Politicians like Lieberman talking about drowning Palestinians in the Dead Sea... and it goes on, always slowly getting worse and worse, more extreme.

      Wiki / Genocide / Stages of genocide, influences leading to genocide, and efforts to prevent it.

    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 6:14 am

      I draw a few moral lessons.

      Funny, I initially read that as "I draw few moral lessons."

      Having read the rest of your comment I think my [mis]reading is accurate after all.

      Either "never again" is applied universally or it not – and if it is not, then it can be and is used to rationalise atrocities, in this case by Israelis against Palestinians.

    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 6:07 am

      On the sidewalk in Hamburg...

      On the sidewalk in Jerusalem...
      On the sidewalk in Najd...
      On the sidewalk in Bersheeba...
      On the sidewalk in Deir Yassin...
      On the sidewalk in Lydda...
      On the sidewalk in Ramla...
      On the sidewalk in [insert village name here x 500]

  • In power shortages, cuts should go to 'Gaza first,' says Israeli minister
    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 7:03 am with 1 replies

      Yes, Annie, how much of Israel’s resources (let’s say as a percent of GDP, cos it gives an idea on how much Israel is “dependent” on anyting) comes from “occupied palestine”?

      Over half of Israel's fresh water supply is stolen from the West Bank. Desalinated water is very expensive, but why buy it when you can steal it!

      Israel isn't a "Startup Nation" it is a basket case that 'prospers' on handouts (US) and stolen resources (Palestine).

  • Artifacts of the early Israel lobby: 1917 map for American consumption
    • Sumud May 15, 2012 at 6:59 am

      lysias ~ I also knew very little about the Templers.

      Interesting precedent set by Israel in 1962 detailed on that wiki entry, to do with the expulsion of about 1000 Templers by mandate authorities in 1939:

      The number of Germans deported from Palestine was greater than the number of returning Jews."[15] In 1962 the State of Israel paid 54 million Deutsche Marks in compensation to property owners whose assets were nationalised"

      So what about the 750,000 Palestinians whose property was "nationalised" in 1947/8/9 and the further 2-300,000 in 1967? That's a whole lot of reparations.

  • Congressman Joe Pitts: 'It is incumbent on Ariel Sharon and Yasir Arafat to restart a peace process'
    • Sumud May 14, 2012 at 3:52 am

      I don't know why you're bothered by that Samuel T – Sharon is scum.

      Why are comments specific to Sharon deemed offensive to stroke victims around the world?

  • Foxman says Google and Facebook are on his team to combat 'internet hate'
    • Sumud May 14, 2012 at 4:03 am

      Egypt alone has a population of about 80 million - the ME/NA population in general is more like 300 million, maybe more:

      link to en.wikipedia.org

      Just think on the tremendous pressure their populations could mount on their governments to stop supplying oil to the US again a la 1973 – if they manage to successfully overthrow their dictators and monarchies.

  • Thaer Halahleh, dying, tells the daughter he's never seen why he took a stand for human dignity
    • Sumud May 14, 2012 at 4:22 am

      Let’s add “writing letters” to the long list of things Palestinians shouldn’t do to secure their political rights.

      Everyone knows that letter writing is anti-semitic!

  • A portrait of a former Zionist (Part 1)
    • Sumud May 11, 2012 at 2:10 am

      Note carefully – Oleg continues to evade the idiocy of his original comment which I quote here again:

      The old Palestinians are good and that’s how you write about them .
      And Israelis are bad and that’s how you write about them.

      And the rest is the psychological problem of a westerner who meets some of the Middle East realities.

      In Oleg-world there is no legitimate reason why Bill or Phil (or presumably anyone else) would be concerned for the way Israelis have treated Palestinians since before 1948 to the current day.

      No – any concern around those issues is merely as a result of a "psychological problem".

      Tell me Oleg - what is the nature of this "psychological problem"?

    • Sumud May 10, 2012 at 5:42 am with 97 replies

      The old Palestinians are good and that’s how you write about them .
      And Israelis are bad and that’s how you write about them.

      And the rest is the psychological problem of a westerner who meets some of the Middle East realities.

      Note carefully: here Oleg seeks to erase the differences in power between Israelis and Palestinians.

      In Oleg-world there was is Nakba, there is no hostile military occupation, there are no checkpoints, there is no apartheid legal systems differentiating between jewish settlers and occupied Palestinians, there are no roads in Palestine that Palestinians are forbidden to drive on, there is no Gaza blockade, for every Israeli child killed there aren't really 10+ Palestinian children killed by the IDF, and on and on and on.

      In Oleg-world the Palestinian [Warsaw] Ghetto is merely "the psychological problems of a westerner".

      Yeah, right.

  • Biden gives Israel the green light on Iran in speech to rabbinical convention
    • Sumud May 9, 2012 at 9:16 am with 1 replies

      The Jewish Telegraph Agency reports that, during his speech today, the "vice president also called efforts to delegitimize Israel 'the most significant assault' on Israel since its independence." In an effort to burnish the Obama administration's Zionist credentials, Biden insisted, "At every point in our Administration, at every juncture, we have stood up for the legitimacy of the state of Israel."

      Let's just stop here for a moment and say "yay BDS"; a six year old campaign that now even the VP of the US is speaking about, even if it is in code – "efforts to delegitimise Israel".

      Thank you Joe, thank you ziobots!

  • Who's the anti-Semite?
    • Sumud May 7, 2012 at 8:11 am with 8 replies

      A slur and slander. It means nothing more.

      That is the danger Ellen.

      There really are people in the world who hate jews (anti-Semite, anti-jewish - whatever) simply for being jews.

      Ziobots have so abused the term that people in the not too distant future may instantly dismiss any accusation of anti-semitism as a zionist deflection. That is a dangerous situation.

      It's the fable of The Boy Who Cried Wolf.

  • Olmert says 'superior powers' -- U.S. Israel lobby-- took him out in 2009
    • Sumud May 5, 2012 at 8:11 pm with 2 replies

      After Olmert & Tzipi Lipni's bloodbath in Gaza 2008/2009 I resent him using the word "killer" to describe his misfortune in an election...

      Olmert is a killer and should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

  • 'Let go of two-state solution insanity' -- says Illinois congressman who supports transfer
    • Sumud May 7, 2012 at 7:56 am

      Hi ritzl - if you haven't seen it already check out Halper's talk on YT from about 2 years ago:

      Interview - Jeff Halper - The Global Pacification Industry

      When I first saw it I was really surprised because I'd only known about Halper as the founder of ICADH but this talk is about much broader issues, in particular the second half. Now reading the AJ piece I can see Halper has gone full circle and brought it back to Palestine.

      This article from him makes more sense when taken with the YT vid.

    • Sumud May 7, 2012 at 7:48 am

      There is no distinction Chesperito - transfer is ethnic cleansing is transfer.

      Just more hollowing out of language and trying to make atrocities more palatable. It's a staple of hasbara and even most western foreign policy since at least Vietnam (think "friendly fire"; it isn't friendly at all – it's deadly).

      As always you can test this out by asking the person making the proposition how they would feel if their family or friends were "transferred".

      Recall the uproar when Helen Thomas said European jews should go back to Europe? She didn't even say it should happen forcibly (i.e.. transfer/ethnic cleansing) - just that they should go back to Europe.

      It's OK to say a Palestinian should be ethnically cleansed but not that European jews should go back to Europe?

      No, no and no.

    • Sumud May 5, 2012 at 7:47 pm

      * Actual new state name to be chosen by democratic referendum at some later date.

      Taxi & I have solved that one tear-stained uzi ~ Republic of Jerusalem. It means neither Palestinians or Israelis will think of themselves as victorious or defeated, but they are all in this together...

  • Feminist scholar Katherine Franke refuses to be pawn in Oren's equality game
    • Sumud May 7, 2012 at 7:28 am

      How about you travel to a middle eastern country other then Israel and try fighting for LGBT rights for tooht and nail how far do you think it will get you at the current state of affairs.

      How about you stop using LGBT people in ME to try and score rhetorical points - as I said before I don't believe you have an ounce of genuine concern for their welfare or well-being.

      It is irrelevant whether LGBT people have equal rights in Israel or not – Israel is *still* an apartheid state.

    • Sumud May 5, 2012 at 8:46 pm with 3 replies

      Nothing to do with the indigenous culture and religion that as we all know loves and accepts gay people.

      The 'indigenous culture' is actually about the same in the Middle East for gay men and women as it was in western countries just a few decades ago. And I'm not speculating – I have lived and travelled throughout the ME and I felt no more or less safe than when I was in a western country. Legally, less so, but the respect for privacy that is common in ME countries means you can effectively just do your own thing.

      It never fails to tick me off when amnesiac fools make comparisons to Middle Eastern countries and western countries, as though the west has been a bastion of womens/gay/any other minority rights for hundreds of years.

      It hasn't, and those rights have been fought for tooth and nail.

      I don't believe you have an ounce of concern for any LGBT people in the ME, you're just using them to try and score points. And evidently you don't know a thing about the history of LGBT people in western countries so better to just keep quiet.

      Of course you are free to make a fool of yourself.

  • RIP MCA: Yauch challenged Islamophobia and US militarism in the Middle East on MTV in 1998
  • It's apartheid in the West Bank, but Obama and liberal Jews are too 'intimidated' to say anything -- Perlstein in Rolling Stone
    • Sumud May 5, 2012 at 6:53 pm

      He also agrees with targeted BDS, Here I may disagree with him, I personally think BDS should target all of Israel, not to destroy the state but to force it to obey International Law.

      HarryLaw ~ you should go back and read the three specific aims of the BDM Movement. It is a rights-based movement that ask Israel to comply with 3 aspects of international law and has no pre-determined political outcome in mind. The BDS Movement's aims can be satisfactorily achieved in either a 1 or 2 state outcome.

      The three aims of BDS Movement are – and this is a quote from the 2005 BDS call:

      These non-violent punitive measures should be maintained until Israel meets its obligation to recognize the Palestinian people’s inalienable right to self-determination and fully complies with the precepts of international law by:

      1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall
      2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
      3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.

      You see each of the 3 requirements cover a different group of Palestinians; those in the OPTs, those in Israel proper and those who are refugees.

      Ziobots commonly promote – and are very successful at it – that BDS is for a one-state solution. This is not true. They do it for rhetorical reasons – there is simply no way that they can win an argument when it is about whether Palestinians rights have or have not been violated. Switching to an argument about 1 or 2 state simply allows them to muddy the waters and confuse their audience.

      Omar Barghouti of the BDS Movement is for a single state, and so am I. But I used to be closer to Finkelstein in preferring a two-state solution, and I was still pro-BDS.

      I believe that a two-state solution is impossible but I guess NF still thinks it is. He has a point when he says if the IDF was ordered home to Israel the settlers would follow, but I simply can't see this happening.

      Anyway, another common furphy is that because the third request invokes the right of return (UN 194) that will automatically destroy Israel. This is a fallacy, and the person who explains that best is actually Norman Finkelstein, using his own tenure case as an example:

      Palestinian Right of Return - Norman Finkelstein

    • Sumud May 5, 2012 at 6:35 pm

      However, Israel isn’t threatening Iran as a nation, only their nuclear facilities.

      Your esteemed Prime Minister has twice referred to Iranians as Amalek, links here.

      I interpret that as a genocidal threat against the Iranian people.

    • Sumud May 5, 2012 at 6:29 pm with 1 replies

      How is it possible that the nutcases still think that Israel was attacked? Or are they deliberately lying?

      In denial or deliberately lying, probably a bit of both – depending on how old the hasbarat is.

      I a few years ago arguing on another forum with an IDF vet who was in the 1967 war. Despite being repeatedly pointed at reliable sources – on the record comments of Israeli politicians and military men – demonstrating that 1967 was a war of choice, and it was known that Nasser had no plans or capability of attack, he point blank refused to believe it.

      According to him he was there and Nasser was going to attack and poor Israel had "no choice" but attack first and they narrowly avoided a 2nd holocaust. And of course he was there, as a soldier not general or a politician. Governments lie, and he was unable to cope with the fact his government had lied to him– so he was in denial.

      Pretty sad really. To a much lesser degree (than Palestinians) the ziobots are also victims of and terrorised by their own government.

      It's not a lot different to the whole Global War on Terror BS that most of us in western countries have been subjected to – it's a giant racket designed to accrue more money and power for those already in power.

    • Sumud May 4, 2012 at 8:02 pm

      Many people blame us for Springsteen, you know.

      I can't tell where the sarcasm is in that comment Mooser so I'm just gonna do this:

      Bruce Springsteen - Dancing In The Dark

  • Egypt grants travel permits to Palfest participants to enter Gaza
    • Sumud May 4, 2012 at 7:45 pm

      You’re assuming correctly- I wish they would open the border. Good riddance for us in Israel.

      Israel doesn't get off that easily dimadok.

      Even if Egypt opened the border Gaza remains under military occupation by the IDF. Gaza remains part of the Occupied Palestinian Territories and can never be excised from them – not by a border opening with Egypt or by you or any other ziobot closing your eyes tight and wishing.

  • 'Jewish Council for Public Affairs' mounts denial campaign against '60 Minutes'
  • The Methodist conference: Let’s call this victory what it is
    • Sumud May 4, 2012 at 7:03 pm with 1 replies

      Should we as Israelis to stop supplying goods to Gaza and PA? Let the hunger games begin!

      Careful dimadok, your claws are showing. Do you really want people of the world to know how deranged and toxic you ziobots are?

      The short answer to your question is YES.

      The fact is Palestinians in their ghetto pay for everything that Israel "supplies" to the West Bank and Gaza, and often at inflated prices.

      Meanwhile, Israel steals vast amounts of water from the aquifer under the West Bank and pipes it to Israel proper (and the settlements), while several hundred thousand Palestinians in Area C have no piped water and get by on as little as 15-20 litres a day/person, settlers nearby consume 300+ litres a day/person. AND, Israel sells Palestinians their own water. Disgusting.

      Israel has created one large [literally] captive market in the occupied territories; through controlling the borders they control and deliberately crush Palestine's economy. Here is Jerusalem mayor Nir Barkat on Sky News a few years ago, he gives a breakdown of average annual incomes for comparison starting at 2:30:
      • jews in Jerusalem: $16,000
      • jews in Israel: $24,000
      • arabs in Jerusalem: $4,000
      • arabs in West Bank: $800

      This poverty exists for one reason only: because Israel wants to make life as unpleasant for Palestinians as possible so they leave. Too bad for Israel that Palestinians have so much devotion to their homeland.

  • Michael Sfard: 'The Israeli government has declared war against the rule of law'
    • Sumud May 4, 2012 at 7:33 pm with 2 replies

      The "Jewish State" of Israel takes one more step towards oblivion here – the only possible outcome in the long term can be a single state across all mandate Palestine with a jewish minority.

  • Israel destroys dairy farm in occupied Palestine
    • Sumud May 7, 2012 at 8:04 am

      @Annie, i understand your “little” confusion. I am sorry that I can not find the article about PA demilising illegal structures, but I did bring to your attention a clear and undisputed (it came from palestinian sources) example where Arabs demolish Arab homes,

      You said asherpat:

      And the Palsetinian Aythority in the West Bank demolishes many more structures for illegal buidling than Israel does, but that is not “inhumane”.

      I've pointed out that amount then is "many more" than 25,000 houses - or even, let's say 12.5k, if you want to split it into Gaza and West Bank.

      Where's the proof asherpat?

      You're criticising us for not being outraged about house demolitions which never occurred...?

      Really, get a grip habibi.

    • Sumud May 5, 2012 at 7:24 pm

      either you can link to the PA demolishing a structure in the WB or you cannot. so far you have not.

      He has set the height of his own bar in saying:

      And the Palsetinian [sic] Aythority [sic] in the West Bank demolishes many more structures for illegal buidling than Israel does, but that is not “inhumane”.

      ICAHD have a running tally of house demolitions in the occupied Palestinians territories. The stats on their web page are nearly 2 years old but the numbers of houses demolished since 1967 is at least 24,813.

      So come on asherpat. Provide the proof the back up your ridiculous claim.

  • Obama working to postpone UN investigation into settlements until after 2012 elections
    • Sumud May 3, 2012 at 6:23 am

      Yup, if there's one thing I think of when I think of Palestinians it's just how obscenely rich they are!!

      The have the US Senate and the EU wrapped around their little Palestinian fingers!!

      Scam artists!!

      Freeloaders!!

      I'm just outraged - they've got it made while I've got to work for a living.

      It's not fair, waaaaaaaaaaah!

      Good one Oleg.

  • Obama nutmegs Romney with Netanyahu condolence call referencing 'the Jewish people'
  • United Methodist Church rejects divestment
    • Sumud May 3, 2012 at 6:08 am

      Shame shame shame on the methodists who put the holy dollar above basic human rights. I'm really too angry and disappointed about this to write much else.

      The only comfort I can take is that BDS started in South Africa about 1960 after the Sharpeville Massacre. Thirty four years to end apartheid there.

      BDS in Palestine launched seven years ago in 2005, so I guess there is some way to go before I can legitimately feel discouraged ;-)

    • Sumud May 3, 2012 at 6:02 am with 1 replies

      Jews have strong legitimate rights as well, rights that go back to the times of the Bible.

      Oh boy - we got a live one here. Thinks the bible is a property title.

  • To counter the injustice of Israeli impunity, remember the Samouni family

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