Michael Oren was interviewed by Jerome McDonnell of Chicago Public Radio, WBEZ. Some surprising excerpts: Oren says Palestinians are doing fine on water, that J Street is outside the mainstream (Hamas, Iran) but he’s fine with Jewish organizations disagreeing within the mainstream, and the settlement issue is resolved largely. Oh and he mocks Naomi Klein. Excerpts:
Jerome McDonnell:
Amnesty International came out with a report recently on water and the Occupied Territories and they talked about Palestinian water consumption barely reaching 70 liters a day while Israelis consume more then 300 liters per day. You know settlers in the West Bank use a lot more water then Palestinians who live in the West Bank – what is Israel going to do to try to rectify the situation and have more water for Palestinians?
Ambassador Michael Oren:
First of all Israel categorically rejected the findings of this Amnesty report, in fact Israel’s supply to the Palestinians exceeds its obligations under the Oslo Accords. We have a problem with Palestinians digging illegal wells down to the aquifer, not treating their sewage. Israel leads the world in terms of its sewage treatment. A greater percentage of our water is reclaimed then any other country in the world. And, Israel is cooperating with Jordan, and very productively, in water sharing. So if the Palestinians have a problem, I would say it’s overwhelmingly self inflicted.
Jerome McDonnell:
It doesn’t probably seem fair to a lot of listeners that Israelis use so much more water and control the water resources of Palestinians. If there’s only one aquifer that Palestinians can draw from and they really have no control over it, it just doesn’t seem fair.
Ambassador Michael Oren:
Well I don’t see anybody parched for water there, I think we have a regional water problem that is not particular to the Palestinians and I can only reassert that Israel leads not only the region but the world in water reclamation, And I think you can find Israeli water saving technology in the fields across the United States in terms of drip irrigation, this was pioneering the field of computer irrigation which puts microscopic sensors into a field and send messages back to a central computer [hasbara….]
O’Donnell:
Why not attend the J-Street Conference?
Ambassador Michael Oren:
I came into this office, having come out of the background of progressive liberal Zionism, I grew up in a socialist Zionist youth movement and I was very concerned with the fact that some of these progressive Jewish organizations had grown distant from Israel and I wanted to reach out to them. And one of the first things I did coming into office, as my hundredth day in the position, was to reach out to some of the organizations that have great difficulties with some of Israel’s policies, so they’re not in accord with us on all of our issues. J-Street was in a somewhat different category. J-Street had policies that aroused some very serious concerns, not just by myself but among many Israeli representatives and decision makers, about whether those policies would impair Israel’s interest, and I personally communicated those concerns to J-Street I opened up a channel of communication to them, and they had not sufficiently allayed those concerns in time for their conference.
Jerome McDonnell:
What are the concerns that you have?
Ambassador Michael Oren:
Well, J-Street was rather… went beyond the mainstream of pro-Israel organizations in this country, they’re very very broad and it includes right, left, center, and some of J-Streets policies went beyond the mainstream.
Jerome McDonnell:
It seems like they’re straight up for a two-state solution and getting the peace process started…
Oren:
that theme is not a problem with us. The government of Israel signed on a two-state solution too. And we are working… we understand that J-Street, that other organizations are opposed to Israel’s settlement policy. We have been working very very hard for the past, six months now with President Obama’s special envoy Senator Mitchell to find a formula through which Israel would exercise restraint in constructing from what we call normal life needs in these settlements, in these communities. And that we could get back to the negotiating table so we share that interest.
Jerome McDonnell:
What is the concern?
Ambassador Michael Oren:
The concern is J-Street’s policies on Iran, on Hamas… there are several issues there that again go outside the mainstream.… Well these are my objections. I think some of these policies raise concerns of whether they are consonant with Israel’s fundamental interest. We do respect the right slash duty of the American Jewish community to have different opinions and to engage in various dialogues but there is a mainstream, and let me say that mainstream is very very inclusive. If you fall outside that mainstream you’re taking a certain position, which may harm Israel’s interest.
Jerome McDonnell:
One of the issues that’s come up between Washington, one of the main issues, has to do with settlements. I wanted to get your thoughts on where that is right now. It seems like the Obama administration hasn’t exactly said that they have rolled back their policy of ‘Israel should not have any new settlements’, then the Israeli government, Netenyahu’s government is approving new settlements, 492 new settlements. Where is this situation at?
Ambassador Michael Oren:
Now Israel has undertaken, the Netenyahu government has undertaken in fact to create no new settlements, to appropriate no additional land for settlements not even to incentivize… to refrain from incentivizing Israelis to move to the settlements. There was a question about whether the residents of these communities, and we’re talking about several hundred thousand people, could be deprived of the right to do any construction whatsoever indefinitely. Our position was…
Jerome McDonnell:
So Ehud Barak approved the construction of 455 housing settlements in the West Bank?
Ambassador Michael Oren:
They’re not settlements these are units, those apartment units. They’re not even buildings, they’re units, lets get that…It’s not a settlement, it is a unit in an apartment block. These are overwhelmingly construction projects that were contracted before this negotiation with the Obama administration. And under law, the state of Israel would have no power of preventing this from going through. People have taken their life savings and put it into a three-room apartment. Especially if they’re young couples and very often the case is these are young couples. So the basis of our evolving understanding with the admin is that Israel will refrain from further construction progress during a certain period of time. Call it a freeze, call it a pause… different words for it, a moratorium. But that there will be certain provisions for what we call normal life construction. That is if a community needs to build a nursery school, needs to build a clinic they’ll be able to do that and you wont freeze life entirely. Israel is also concerned about the exit strategy what happens if we agree to a period of this restraint, and at the end of it nothing is happening in the peace negotiations, in the peace process, does that mean that these communities will remain indefinitely strangled? We’re working for a formula with that, with the President’s Special Envoy, with Senator Mitchell. I think that the administration will agree with me in asserting that the settlement issue between the United States and Israel is largely behind us.
Jerome McDonnell:
I talked recently with Naomi Klein, a Canadian Jewish person, and she supports a divestment movement, a boycott divestment and sanctions movement against Israel now, because it seems like the thing that is most stuck in her [indecipherable], if I can sum it up, is that she thinks Israel can exist within the parameters of international law and all the things we’ve been talking about are things where a lot of people think Israel exists outside the parameters of international law whether its Gaza, the embargo, water, these housing units, all these things look to many outsiders, even Jewish people like Naomi Klein, like Israel wants to play by its own set of rules, and not the same rules as everybody else.
Ambassador Michael Oren:
Well let me clarify something, Naomi Klein you described as a Canadian Jewish woman, is that a profession? Is that…
Jerome McDonnell:
Well she’s an author…
Ambassador Michael Oren:
Is that an ideological position? Does she have like a little card that says “Canadian Jew”? To the best of my knowledge Naomi Klein is a very radical Marxist, anti-American, anti-Western individual who in no way represents any mainstream. Now there are polls taken regularly that show, most recently that show between 67 and 71 percent of Americans think that Israel is a solid, worthy ally of the United States. Israel has extraordinarily good relations with over a billion Chinese, it has great relations with a hundred million Indians, it has wonderful relations with Eastern Europe, improving relations with Western Europe it has a historic alliance with the United States – just who are these many people that you seem to think that Israel exists outside the rule? Say maybe there’s a billion Muslims, they have that problem, well they have a problem with a lot of other things, not just with Israel. They have a problem with the United States, they have a problem with the West, and they have a problem with modernity, some of them… Maybe it’s just those people that carry identity card that say “Canadian Jew” on them. I don’t know… I think you’ve gotta be a little bit more careful Jerome, and I don’t think necessarily Naomi Klein would be happy to hear you define her as Canadian Jew.
Jerome McDonnell:
Well, I mean I refer to lots of people as American Jewish people, I don’t think that’s really an issue. I just want to say…
Ambassador Michael Oren:
Would you like to be referred to as a White American Methodist wearing glasses?
Jerome McDonnell:
Not really. Well, I’m not a Methodist, but I am an American Catholic.
Ambassador Michael Oren:
Would you like to be referred to that?
Jerome McDonnell:
Sure
Ambassador Michael Oren:
Would you like to have that be the defining issue of your politics?
Jerome McDonnell:
Well I’m just saying…
Ambassador Michael Oren:
…Well here I find myself defending Naomi Klein, its kind of funny!
Jerome McDonnell:
Well I’m just saying, here I am talking about all of these Jewish people who have some affection for Israel…
Ambassador Michael Oren:
I don’t think she has any affection for Israel.
Jerome McDonnell:
…Richard Goldstone he certainly does, he certainly…
Ambassador Michael Oren:
Naomi Klein certainly has a strange way of showing it, I must tell you…
Jerome McDonnell:
Aren’t you worried about American Jews who are maybe going to think differently about Israel after the series of events that have happened, all of these instances that we’ve been talking about that things might change? Most of them voted for Barack Obama, and it’s hard for the current government in Israel to get along with Barack Obama on the settlement issue.
Ambassador Michael Oren:
No, I think we have gotten along very well at the end of the day with Barack Obama on the settlement issue. And we’ve gotten along with Barack Obama on the Goldstone issue. Barack Obama’s administration was every bit as condemning of the Goldstone Report as we were. And the statement issued by Secretary of State Clinton, issued twice by the way, in condemnation of the Goldstone Report was every bit as unequivocal and categorical as ours was. And they’ve worked wonderfully to stop the… to mitigate the impact of the Goldstone Report and we’re very grateful for that. As for American Jews who support Barack Obama, that’s their decision, we support and celebrate American democracy. But just because an American Jew will vote for Obama as opposed to another candidate, does not immediately translate to a falling off of American Jewish support for Israel. It’s a faulty calculus, the fact of the matter is there are now American Jews who are a little bit concerned about some of the issues that have come up between Israel and the Obama Administration and any American Jewish leader or member of Congress will tell you there’s been a falling of American Jewish support for the Administration because of this.
