100 Most Recent Comments


oldgeezer
oldgeezer on December 15, 2019, 9:05 pm

@Talkback

Clearly he doesn’t. He also provided a perfect example of a specific point Phil made.

jon s should stick to fake history. On the left or a liberal he is not.

Mooser
Mooser on December 15, 2019, 6:08 pm

Has Israel formed a government yet? Or is keeping the Palestinians excluded more important than having a government?

Anyway, “Jon s” you’ll do fine under the coming IDF-Rabbinate junta.

eljay
eljay on December 15, 2019, 5:47 pm

|| jon s: Phil asserts that “Zionism has failed utterly and completely”.
Let’s see: The Zionist movement was founded in 1897. 50 years later it’s primary objective was achieved: … ||

The establishment of a colonialist, (war) criminal and religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of geographic Palestine and at the expense of its indigenous population.

|| … Many problems … ||

Including Zionist terrorism, ethnic cleansing, theft, military occupation, colonialism, oppression, torture and murder; a refusal to respect and uphold international laws and human rights; and a refusal to accept responsibility and accountability for past and on-going (war) crimes committed.

Yup, “many problems”.

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 5:36 pm

echi: “We need all hands, no exception for “hypocrites”. ”

Exactly, so why focus on antizionism? Don’t you think that we can reach more people, if we remind them by refering to universal principles that this is not only about Palestinians so they can see that for Zionists it’s only about Jews? I mean just have a look at jon s’ comment:
https://mondoweiss.net/2019/12/if-you-believe-zionism-is-racism-get-ready-for-your-close-up/comment-page-1/#comment-960700

echi: “Are we asking the Palestinians if they fight the occupation of their own land only or that of all people victim of foreign occupation?”

We are telling everyone that the right of an occupied people to resist occupation by any means is enshrined in international law, refer to UNGAR 3246 of 1974 and quote or let them find the following passages:
“7. Strongly condemns all Governments which do not recognize the right to self-determination and independence of peoples under colonial and foreign domination and alien subjugation, notably the peoples of Africa and the Palestinian people; …
9. Calls upon those countries to reconsider their policies and to sever all links with the racist regimes of south Africa and Southern Rhodesia;”
https://unispal.un.org/DPA/DPR/unispal.nsf/0/C867EE1DBF29A6E5852568C6006B2F0C

echi: “We should be happy to work with anyone who damages the Zionists, anywhere and in any way — when one has to act, that is the only universal. ”

I’m afraid you are not getting it. This is not about damaging Zionists. This is about restoring the rights of those whose rights are violated. And no, I will never work with antisemites or any other racist, including antizionist Jews who think that Nonjews are not human beings only because they fight Zionist racist. That would hypocrit and not based on universal principles at all.

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 5:19 pm

Thank you Donald. Could you help me explaining it?

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 5:13 pm

jon s: “So, in my view, Zionism can hardly be considered a failure.”

Yes, it’s obvious that you don’t understand Phil’s article at this point of your development. Do you understand the concept of “context”?

bcg
bcg on December 15, 2019, 5:07 pm

No, I’m saying that “the right to exist” has no meaning. What’s the best bicycle for a fish?

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 5:03 pm

Elisabeth Block: “My experience is that Zionists don’t know what I’m referring to.”

Unfortunately neither does the mainstream. Hoe about changing one of them to “Nonjews are humans, too”.

JustJessetr
JustJessetr on December 15, 2019, 5:01 pm

And there you have my answer. A duck and a dodge without answering at all. NOONE can dispute those facts. No one has, and no one will dispute that Israel has become stronger and Palestinians have become weaker in the face of all this useless and counter-productive boycott effort.

Sorry, Keith. When you start to think for yourself, people you would normally vilify start appearing at your side. I don’t take your insults personally. Eventually, eljay and annie and all the rest will start to mess up your name on purpose, compare you with Nazis and people who beat their wives, and call you a Zionist without understanding what it actually means. At that point you’ll know you’ve acheived independent thought.

jon s
jon s on December 15, 2019, 3:33 pm

Phil asserts that “Zionism has failed utterly and completely”.
Let’s see: The Zionist movement was founded in 1897. 50 years later it’s primary objective was achieved: the establishment of a Jewish state in the Jewish historic homeland. In it’s first decades Israel absorbed mass immigration, providing a home for millions of Jewish immigrants, established a strong military, a functioning economy, a rich cultural scene and enjoys diplomatic and commercial ties with most of the world. Many problems, but also much to be proud of. So, in my view, Zionism can hardly be considered a failure. I would agree that Zionism as a movement and organization has outlived it’s usefulness.

annie
annie on December 15, 2019, 1:47 pm

i remember just a few years ago when scarlett johansson made the soda stream commercial. within about a month john kerry (or some equivalent politician) and netanyahu addressed the boycott movement publicly for the first time. it felt like we’d passed the rubicon. now it’s front and center with laws forbidding it in over 1/2 the states and a system set up to strangle the first amendment on campuses — which will have the opposite effect.

citizen, it won’t get to scotus until after anti bds wins in court. as long as they keep losing court cases it will require team anti palestine to bring it to scotus, and i don’t think they will because they’ll likely lose. it will be the ACLU who will initiate it, but they have to lose a court case first, and so far they’ve won them all (i think).

anyway, i think bds has been radically successful.

Kate
Kate on December 15, 2019, 1:44 pm

Nice to see you again too, Just! I haven’t gone anywhere – my compilation last Saturday didn’t have my name on it because it was posted by MW editors – for some reason I hadn’t been able to log in, and I sent the post to Phil by email. The compilation the week before was two days late, something I really don’t like to have happen, but sometimes it does.
I can always count on you to read the post all the way through, even when it’s very long. Thank you for your comments!

Misterioso
Misterioso on December 15, 2019, 1:31 pm

More grist for the Brexit mill:

https://ahtribune.com/world/europe/uk/3727-election-result-signals-a-possible-end.html

“Election Result Signals a Possible End of the United Kingdom” by Allan Macleod, America Herald Tribute, Dec. 14/19

EXCERPT:
“On the face of it, Thursday’s election result could hardly have been better for Boris Johnson and his ruling Conservative Party. Campaigning on a simple slogan of ‘get Brexit done,’ the Tories romped to victory, winning 365 of a total of 650 seats, easily enough for a comfortable majority government. In his victory speech, the Prime Minister claimed that he was humbled that the British public had put their trust in him, and promised to make it is mission to work night and day, flat out, to get Brexit done by January 31st, ‘no ifs, no buts, no maybes.’

“Even better, his rivals suffered huge defeats; after what he called a ‘very disappointing night for the Labour Party,’ Jeremy Corbyn announced he was standing down after four years in charge. Meanwhile, Liberal Democrat leader Jo Swinson suffered the embarrassment of losing her East Dunbartonshire seat.

“The results will be interpreted as a very clear mandate for Johnson to push forward in his plans for a quick departure from the European Union. And yet the irony is that it is precisely this insistence from many in the Conservative and Unionist Party, to give it its full name, that could lead to the breakup of the union, ending the United Kingdom forever. An October poll found that the majority of English Conservative voters would accept the fragmentation of the UK as a price for leaving the EU. Those voters may get their wish– and sooner than expected.”

_______________________________________________________________________

Also:
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-general-election-result-corbyn-brexit-lucky-eu-a9246411.html

“Johnson is the luckiest politician alive – reading about worse historical crises has been my solace in recent weeks” The Independent, Nov. 13/19, by Patrick Cockburn.

“Books on savage wars are a reminder that things can be much more grim”

EXCERPTS:
“I suspected from the moment the general election was called that the result would be a large Conservative majority, a calamitous defeat for Labour, and a decisive victory for Brexit. To prevent myself getting too depressed by this grim prospect, I picked out and read two books on crises that were far more dire: one on the Wars of the Roses in 15th century England and the other on Verdun in 1916, perhaps the most horrific battle in the First World War.

“My idea was that by concentrating on these savage conflicts I would have some relief from thinking about Brexit and its consequences. It would also help me view the turmoil over leaving the EU in less apocalyptic terms than is usually the case. Is it, for instance, likely that we are facing the break-up of the UK as nationalist parties – Conservatives, SNP, Sinn Fein, DUP – establish their dominance over different communities? For all the debate over Brexit, it is still unclear how far Britain ruled by a hard-right government will diverge from EU norms and follow the US model.”

“Now that Brexit in its current version has been approved by the electorate, it is easy to forget what a weird project it continues to be. Much of what its proponents say is fantasy or simply unrealisable. There is only so much Britain can do to diversify its economy away from the EU, since 45 per cent of British exports go to there compared to 15 per cent to the US, while exports to Ireland easily exceed those to China. Britain’s negotiators will once again bump into economic and political realities that are the same as under Theresa May.”

echinococcus
echinococcus on December 15, 2019, 12:45 pm

RoHa,

But Corbyn qua Corbyn had a strong working-class base, his job being that of gathering said base back to the now degenerate fold. And, of course, delivering it to the dogs.

echinococcus
echinococcus on December 15, 2019, 12:38 pm

Talkback,

“Combines for whom […]? And why frame it as “anti-zionism” and focus only on these particular universal humanitarian issues?”

Good question, expressed in part by Keith as “any anti-Zionist who is not an anti-imperialist is a hypocrite” but false problem, if one recognizes that this is total war by the Empire against a totally defenceless, almost totally isolated civilian population.

We need all hands, no exception for “hypocrites”. It is of no importance at all if a particular anti-Zionist is a follower of some universal principle, or a tribal particularist trying to clean the good name of his crime, or a medieval remnant who accepts the Zionists’ claim to represent “the Jews”, definition unclear. The motives of anti-Zionist actors, universal or particular, are irrelevant as long as the action is ongoing. Are we asking the Palestinians if they fight the occupation of their own land only or that of all people victim of foreign occupation? Doesn’t make sense now.

We should be happy to work with anyone who damages the Zionists, anywhere and in any way — when one has to act, that is the only universal. Additional soul-searching only helps the enemy.

Donald
Donald on December 15, 2019, 12:25 pm

Talkback—

Okay, yeah, that’s an interesting point. I think the horse is out of the barn as far as terminology is concerned, but I see what you are saying.

Mooser
Mooser on December 15, 2019, 12:22 pm

“Hopefully BJ will “fall flat” before he sells Britain’s true great achievement, its National Health System, to the US.”

If he succeeds, the headlines will be: ‘Labour Anti-semitism Destroys Britian’s NHS’

Mooser
Mooser on December 15, 2019, 11:59 am

“There’s no need to justify the founding of Israel or her right to exist.”

Great! Then there is no need to justify Israel’s right to stop existing, or reasons to abandon the Zionist project.
And nobody needs to justify wanting to destroy Israel, either.

Mooser
Mooser on December 15, 2019, 11:52 am

“for civil rights and equality under the law within Israel”

Under which ‘law’, “brent”? Israel doesn’t have civil rights laws, and there is no Constitutional guarantee of equality.

‘Brent’ is our most consistent advocate of Palestinian quietism. He’s positive that no matter what the Palestinians are doing, they could do less.

punterweger
punterweger on December 15, 2019, 11:42 am

@Talkback – obviously the PA and the Oslo accords are part of the problem. The PA has become Israel’s quisling administration. It and the Oslo accords have become more or less irrelevant to the liberation struggle of the Palestinians. However, supporting the widely detested Trump and Netanyahu is the kind of “conmspiratorial” strategy that will only undermine the wide popular struggle that is required for progress.

just
just on December 15, 2019, 11:36 am

What are these municipalities, counties, and states thinking? Do they really think that engaging with the vicious, militarized, and deeply racist Israeli forces will somehow enrich them or improve their delivery of services to the citizens and laws that they are supposed to serve and protect??? It’s benighted beyond belief, and I don’t think that any court of law or jury will fall for the “the Israelis made me do it and taught me everything I know” defense.

I read the following article earlier in the week with horror, and did immediately think that where in Hades did these monsters at the border and their ‘higher ups’ get this gruesome idea and practice?

“US immigration officials bar doctors from giving flu shots to detained kids …

US immigration authorities blocked doctors from giving flu vaccines to detained migrant children this week, a move that physicians say will lead to more deaths behind bars.

Customs and Border Protection (CBP) refused to grant a group of doctors access to provide vaccines in San Diego on Monday despite at least three recent flu deaths of children in US immigration custody, aged two, six and 16, and growing concerns about health hazards and unsafe conditions for asylum seekers in detention.

Licensed physicians arrived at the Chula Vista border patrol station in San Ysidro prepared to operate a free flu clinic for the detained migrants, but CBP would not let them inside, claiming it was not “feasible” to provide the medical care.

“More people will die without the vaccine,” said Dr Hannah Janeway, an emergency medicine physician turned away by CBP. “There’s no doubt. They are being locked in cages in cold weather together, without any vaccination, in a year that is supposed to bring a horrible flu epidemic.”

Janeway, a Los Angeles-based doctor who also works with asylum seekers in Tijuana, said CBP had a moral obligation to provide vaccines: “Our government, who is creating these conditions and allowing them to persist, is basically saying some people’s lives are worth more than others, and it’s OK for children to die.” …

A CBP spokesman, Matthew Dyman, said in an email on Tuesday that individuals in the agency’s custody “should generally not be held for longer than 72 hours”, adding: “Every effort is made to hold detainees for the minimum amount of time required.”

Dyman said CBP did not administer vaccines but was “part of a larger system that has these processes in place”, noting that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Ice), which operates long-term detention, has “comprehensive medical support services”.

Government records, however, have shown that children and adults have been held in CBP custody in crowded conditions for longer than 72 hours, and lawyers representing migrants in the region have reported clients being held for weeks with little explanation. …

A Department of Homeland security spokesperson criticized the doctors in a tweet on Tuesday, saying: “Of course Border Patrol isn’t going to let a random group of radical political activists show up and start injecting people with drugs.”

Doctors argued that regardless of the length of detention, CBP should be providing life-saving services, noting that it would be efficient and free for the group of volunteers to administer vaccines.

“We see this as medical negligence on the part of the US government,” said Dr Bonnie Arzuaga, co-founder of Doctors for Camp Closure, one of the groups offering services. “People are being held in close confinement and usually are under a lot of physical and emotional stress … and may be malnourished and may not have access to hygiene supplies. That puts them at risk.”

Arzuaga said the group of roughly 60 doctors and advocates were ready with 120 doses of the vaccine on Monday and prepared to operate an urgent mobile clinic. She estimated it could have taken as little as 30 minutes to complete the entire process.

“All they really needed to do was open the gate,” she said. “To be on the other side of the fence with all the resources we had available to us and to not be able to share those resources with the people who needed it most felt frustrating and disappointing.” …

On Tuesday, the groups visited the San Diego border patrol headquarters to demand a meeting with officials. Some demonstrators blocked an entrance to the facility and lay on the ground, with six people ultimately arrested. Four of the people detained were doctors, according to organizers, and they were cited for “failure to comply with the lawful directions of a federal police officer” before being released.

Danielle Deines, a neonatologist working with the group, said she was able to speak with several local CBP officials on Monday who continued to express resistance.

“They are having difficulty prioritizing something like this, because they have so far dehumanized people,” she said, adding that one CBP official said something along the lines of: “‘It’s not like we can offer the flu vaccine to every Central American who comes knocking on our door.’”

“My question is, why not?” she said. “If you want to hold people in detention, you can provide people the basic flu vaccine … You’re saying death is acceptable to you, and that you don’t value human life.”

A number of Trump administration anti-immigration policies have created what lawyers say is a humanitarian crisis at the border, and migrants in detention have reported difficulties taking care of basic hygiene and medical needs. At least six migrant youths have died in immigration custody or shortly after their release.

“As medical professionals, we deem this an emergency,” said Deines, who is based in Virginia. “It is our duty to help them and stand up for them.””

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/10/us-immigration-detained-children-flu-shots#img-1

HarryLaw
HarryLaw on December 15, 2019, 11:32 am

“We don’t have committees for anti-black racism, or anti-Asian racism, yet these are much larger communities in Britain”. Which also suffer far more discrimination than the relatively prosperous Jewish community.

Hemlockroid
Hemlockroid on December 15, 2019, 11:29 am

Not one newspaper put-together most Zionists on & off campus are Protestant not Jewish 30 to 1.

Hemlockroid
Hemlockroid on December 15, 2019, 11:11 am

throughout Herzl’s short diplomatic career he consistently sought to attract to his cause prominent anti-Semites (such as Konstantin Pobedonostsev (1827-1907), a close adviser to tsars Alexander III and Nicolas II). Significantly, Lord Balfour (1848-1930), the author of the Balfour Declaration, had imposed limitations on immigration of Jews to Britain a few years before declaring his country’s support for the Zionist project.
– Yakov Rabkin

Misterioso
Misterioso on December 15, 2019, 10:39 am

@Tom Suarez

Re: Selling “Britain’s true great achievement, its National Health System, to the U.S.”

https://theintercept.com/2019/12/10/nhs-privatization-uk-health-care/

“Privatization at the NHS? American Business Interests Seek Growing Share of U.K.’s Health System.” The Intercept, Dec. 10/19

EXCERPT:
“Privatization of the National Health Service, the marquee health system of the United Kingdom that provides essential health care services, has become a point of contention in the general election, as voters head to the polls on Thursday.

“Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn alleges that his opponents, led by the Conservative Party’s Boris Johnson, are intent on continuing a push to privatize NHS services, placing the cherished health agency up for sale to predatory interests based in the United States known for shifting costs to consumers and for reaping profits through providing lower standards of care often at higher costs. Late last month, Corbyn released a set of over 400 trade documents between the U.S. and the U.K., purporting to show the U.S. seeking ‘total market access’ to the U.K. health care market. The Tories adamantly reject the claim. Over the weekend, after an allegation of Russian interference surfaced, Corbyn refused to disclose the source of the documents.

“The back and forth, as it played out in the British press, was focused on the documents Corbyn released and has largely left out the track record that American health care companies have in seeking to capitalize on recent NHS privatization schemes. Publicly available corporate presentations and transcripts of investor calls with health care executives suggest that the American health care industry has long had its sights on harnessing a wave of privatization and outsourcing at the NHS — both measures sought by senior Conservative Party officials.”

chrisjj
chrisjj on December 15, 2019, 10:30 am

Alison Weir: Against Our Better Judgement.

chrisjj
chrisjj on December 15, 2019, 10:29 am

It certainly is a tremendous advance to see this book being published. I would also recommend Alison Weir’s book ‘Against our Better Judgement’ published a couple of years back that covers much of the same subject except from an American political standpoint. It also has excellent and numerous citations.

Elizabeth Block
Elizabeth Block on December 15, 2019, 10:25 am

Hajo Meyer, several years ago now, was on a speaking tour. Topic: “Never Again For Anyone.” No mainstream Jewish institution in Toronto would let him speak there. He spoke at the Winchevsky Centre (secular Jewish community) and Quaker House.
I am wearing two buttons right now. One says NEVER AGAIN FOR ANYONE. The other says NEVER AGAIN BY ANYONE.
My experience is that Zionists don’t know what I’m referring to.

Tom Suarez
Tom Suarez on December 15, 2019, 10:24 am

It certainly would be poetic justice if the Brexit-Bring-Back-the-Empire movement played out with Ireland returning to being fully … Ireland (how else to fix the “border” problem?). Hopefully BJ will “fall flat” before he sells Britain’s true great achievement, its National Health System, to the US.

Misterioso
Misterioso on December 15, 2019, 10:17 am

Zionism and its spawn, “Israel,” are a betrayal of Judaism and the six million Jews who perished at the hands of Germany’s Third Reich. As the Nazis subscribed to the “Aryan Myth,” Zionist Jews believe they had/have a “God given” right to “return” to what they erroneously believe to be their “home land” and dispossess, expel, torture, slaughter, oppress, imprison without charge the indigenous Palestinians – who including their ancestors, have lived between the River and the Sea for about 15,000 years – and subject them to collective punishments and ghettoization, e.g., the Gaza Strip, the world’s largest outdoor and impoverished prison.

Palestinians’ suffering is only going to get worse as they increasingly become the majority between the River and the Sea and the Zionists become panic stricken, even more so with plummeting Jewish immigration, soaring emigration and international condemnation of their thoroughly documented crimes against humanity.

Right now, they have America in their pocket with multi-billionaire, casino magnate, raving ultra-Zionist Sheldon Adelson pulling Trump’s strings and determining US policy in the region. (Adelson contributed $30 million to Trump’s election campaign.) The good news is that a rapidly growing number of Americans and other peoples around the world, especially youth, including more and more Jews, are comprehending the extent of the crimes Zionism continues to inflict on the indigenous Palestinians.

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 10:07 am

Nathan: “I explained to Talkback that it is absurd to believe that pressure could be applied on Israel in order to convince her to end her own existence.”

You mistake pressure for convincing. And you also mistake a state for its Apartheid goverment.

Nathan: “There is quite a significant public that is absolutely determined to maintain the State of Israel, and so it will be.”

Maybe within the Apartheid state. But its international support will decline as it declined for the Apartheid regime in South Africa. And then we will see if Israel can leave solely on its own or accepts at least a two state solution. Maybe you should listen to the intelligent voices in Israel and not the racist mob.

eljay
eljay on December 15, 2019, 10:07 am

|| Nathan: … There is quite a significant public that is absolutely determined to maintain the State of Israel, and so it will be. ||

The state of Israel exists and IMO he should continue to exist but he shouldn’t exist as a colonialist, (war) criminal and religion-supremacist state because no state has a right to exist as a colonialist, (war) criminal or supremacist state.

Instead, he should:
– end his decades-long and occupation and colonization of territory outside of his / Partition borders;
– reform into the secular and democratic state of and for all of his citizens, immigrants, expats and refugees, equally;
– honour his obligations under international law; and
– accept responsibility and accountability for his past and on-going (war) crimes.

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 10:04 am

Nathan: “It might be true, Talkback, that pressure could be applied on Israel to force her to make concessions. ”

It has always been true. Whether American pressure or Palestinian resistance. It was the first intifada that let to Oslo. Unfortunately Oslo created the PA which is more effective in combating Palestinian resistance then Israel has ever been.

Nathan: “Your “real one-state solution” means that the State of Israel will be replaced by another state and will no longer exist.”

The problem is not the “state,” but it’s Apartheid regime. South Africa still exists, but without its Apartheid regime. But it’s understandable that you cannot envisage a one state in historic Palestine without it being a Jewish Apartheid state.

Nathan: “… anti-Israel crowd, …”

I don’t care for your labelling that you have to fabricate to distract from your Jewish exclusivism. I allready know that you cannot formulate a single argument based on universal principles, human rights and international law that applies to all people. But this is about justice and equality for all citizens in historic Palestine and those who are kept expelled.

Misterioso
Misterioso on December 15, 2019, 9:56 am

Prediction:
Megalomaniacal, egotistical, loud mouth, self-serving, deceitful Conservative P.M. Boris Johnson will fall flat on his ass. Scotland and Northern Ireland are not on board leaving the E.U. Declaring that Brexit has changed everything, Scotland’s First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, is calling for a second referendum on independence referring to it as “an assertion of the democratic right of the people of Scotland to determine their own future.” The Scottish Nationalists won 48 of 59 seats in the election and took 45% of the popular vote. The Conservatives lost seven of their former 13 seats.

In Northern Ireland the election resulted in the Social Democrat and Labour and Sinn Fein holding a majority of seats. Sinn Fein leader Mary Lou McDonald has called for a referendum on reunification with Ireland saying “Brexit has changed the political landscape in Ireland, in Britain and in Europe… All the old certainties are gone.” Brexit has increased support for Irish reunification and more and more Protestants are now identifying with being Irish.

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 9:51 am

brent: “Which are the most effective, easiest to create, and most powerful?”

Israel’s primary concern: Maintaining the status quo, buy time to illegaly settle even more, create fact on the grounds and even illegaly more territory in order to create a Jewish state in all of Palestine and maintain Apartheid.
Israel’s fall back option: Two-state solution, the Zionist version aka Bantustans.

Palestinian’s primary concern: Real Two state solution
Palestininian’s fall back option: Real one state solution.

Palestinians going for the one state solution could pressure Israel in accepting a real two state solution.

Nathan
Nathan on December 15, 2019, 9:14 am

Brent – no, I didn’t raise any concerns regarding the survival of the state. I explained to Talkback that it is absurd to believe that pressure could be applied on Israel in order to convince her to end her own existence.

There’s a lot of talk here at Mondoweiss about the two-state solution being dead, and therefore there will be a one-state arrangement. It’s fun to argue the point, but it doesn’t mean that the idea of replacing Israel with a new political entity (the single state) is really a topic on the agenda. It’s not. There is quite a significant public that is absolutely determined to maintain the State of Israel, and so it will be.

Maghlawatan
Maghlawatan on December 15, 2019, 7:07 am

Looks like a very interesting book. Hannah Arendt really understood Zionism

“The sole new piece of historical philosophy which the Zionists contributed out of their own new experiences [was] “A nation is a group of people… held together by a common enemy” (Herzl)–an absurd doctrine…”

The AS attacks on Corbyn and now Sanders fit that pattern.

Zionism will probably collapse in a massive crisis. It’s too paranoid to be sustainable.

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 6:55 am

Yes, but I’m afraid that this won’t work with the PA and the Oslo accords. Because this framework supports the two state solution. Which means that countries can ridiculously claim that it’s not Israel preventing this solution, but the unwilligness of both parties or especially the Palestinian to negotiate. (As if any occupied people have ever achieved to end a belligerent occupation through negotiation and without any resistance.)

But if the PA dismantles – which many Palestinian supporters call for – AND the Palestinians choose to go for the one state solution Israel will finally and reluctantly allow a Palestinian SOUVEREIGN state (and maybe even more Palestinian demands) to prevent the one state solution. And it will up for the Palestinans two accept it or to go for the one state solution which Israel won’t politically survive, because not a single country (maybe except for the US and its Pacific micro-vassals) will support Apartheid.

So the PA has to be dismantled in my opinion. BUT it’s better to allow Trump and Netanyahu to destroy the two state solution even urther first, so the PA won’t get blamed and Palestinians continue to receive (financial) support.

In other words. Support Trump and Netanyahu!!!

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 6:33 am

Sibiriak: “… which isn’t something I can do regularly at this time.”

Just use Firefox with the Addon “Best proxy switcher” and you are just three clicks and multiple countries away.

And in Firefox press F9 and F5 to read some articles wich are only partially revealed if you are not registered, if you know what I mean. ;)

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 6:03 am

JustJessetr: “Boycotting the Jews since the 20s …”

What are you talking about? Jews back then were boycotted simply because they were Jews and not because of their state actions against Nonjews.

JustJessetr: “Anyone care to argue those facts?”

LOL. Just watch Israel attempts to globally silence or criminalize the boycotters and try to argue that this is not a sign of weakness, including the desperate attempt to paint this as antisemitism.

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 5:58 am

echi: “Anti-zionism combines a good number of powerful universal humanitarian impulses, viz against tribal religion, confusion of religious following with nation, negation of free thought through imposition of nominal religion, colonialism, racism, theft, genocide, etc. ”

Combines for whom (besides you and me)? And why frame it as “anti-zionism” and focus only on these particular universal humanitarian issues?

That’s exactly why Zionist manage to frame this as singling out Israel and Jews. And what I’m promoting is just a reaction to this attempt. Don’t talk about Jews, Palestinans, Irael, Palestine, Zionism, Antizionism, etc. Just talk about universal values.

It’s Zionists who need to constantly talk about Jews, their claims and their alleged rights. They simply cannot formulate any universal principle. Have you ever heard a Zionist saying that anyone with historic or genetic ties to a land has a valid claim to this land? They can’t, because then they would make a case for Palestinians, too, who can actually prove their “ties” on an individual base. So Zionists are only able to talk about Jews and Jewish exclusivism which means that contrary to any other people Jews have special rights.

On the other hand you do neither have to talk about Palestinian rights nor to make an exclusive right for them. Their rights are based on universal principles. Human rights, international law, post-Colonialism, the right of the people OF a country (aka its habitual residents) to an independent state in this country, etc. All of this excludes Jewish exclusivism.

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 5:21 am

@Keith

You are actually making my point.

Nathan
Nathan on December 15, 2019, 5:21 am

tommy – If you believe that the UN and the rest of the world should enforce the Partition Plan borders, you should add that you believe that the Partition Plan in general should be enforced. The plan called for the founding of a Jewish state in Palestine (and an Arab state), so it would be proper that the enforcement you have in mind should include the acceptance of the Partition Plan by all parties. The Palestinians reject the legitimacy of the Partition Plan, insisting that (1) the UN had no right to divide the country and that (2) the Jews are not entitled to statehood. So, surely you can’t seriously propose that Israel live in the partition borders while her neighbors insist that partition is illegitimate and a causus belli. Surely, you are insisting that the enforcement of partition means that the conflict has been resolved.

Talkback
Talkback on December 15, 2019, 5:19 am

JustJessetr: “Armchair purists who lives in the US on stolen land proposing others do something he will never do himself. ”

Civilization has developed. We are living in post-colonial-times. It’s post 1945. Well except for you and your likes who inherently argue that nobody should condem the genocide against Jews, because genocides have happened before.

And btw. the US doesn’t care about the faith/heritage of its citizens ; every citizen belongs to its nation. The right to equality is constitutionally enshrined. This is completely different to the only Apartheid state in the world.

Nathan
Nathan on December 15, 2019, 4:50 am

Talkback – There’s no need to justify the founding of Israel or her right to exist. Since you are interested in universal principles, I can phrase the issue in a universal sense: There is no need to justify the founding of any state in the world or its right to exist. States come into being, and that’s the way of the universe.

Actually, your insistence that Israel must explain its birth and its survival is a non-universal principle.

brent
brent on December 15, 2019, 2:37 am

This article is the most comprehensive case yet for a campaign for civil rights and equality under the law within Israel. No demographic concern present. It would throw light on the fundamental problem, supremacy. It would become an open door for Congressional support. It would counter the notion Palestinians secretly plan to destroy Israel. It would bring into the battle the Jews who formed the backbone of our civil rights movement and position them to bring about the “maturation” of Zionism. It would throw light on the issues that need to be resolved to bring into being the PLO idea of a secular, democratic state as the eventual resolution to the conflict.

echinococcus
echinococcus on December 15, 2019, 12:58 am

“But maybe your pristine morality can pass the blockade and can be eaten by Gaza’s children.”

Nope. Nothing will ever pass the blockade as long as Zionists are there and the Palestinians are alive. The only thing that will ever help is the fall of the house of US, leaving you guys exposed. Provided it comes before the genocide of Palestine is consummated. We’ve had 100+ years to learn exactly what the Zionist response to any and all peaceful gestures can ever be.

Keith
Keith on December 15, 2019, 12:37 am

JUSTJESSETR- “Anyone care to argue those facts?”

Your facts are BS. I had a longer response but some things are not meant to be, if you take my drift.

Keith
Keith on December 15, 2019, 12:29 am

DAVID GREEN- “… and from emphasizing the relationship of I/P to USFP, and anti-imperialist anti-war movements.”

Indeed, i continue to be disturbed at the number of anti-Zionists who seem quite comfortable with the reality of empire. In my opinion, any anti-Zionist who is not an anti-imperialist is a hypocrite.

brent
brent on December 14, 2019, 11:07 pm

Nathan… raises concerns for the survival of the state under the secular state concept. Whatever solution is found will require ironing out wrinkles. I suspect there are ways to protect both cultures as well as majority and minority rights. This is an important challenge that could advance all peoples. Perhaps via an enlightened constitution.

Also, bringing civil rights and equality under the law within Israel proper, the demographics would not pose a problem and doing so would provide insights for the larger solution down the road.

Mutual respect can do wonders to bring about change. The harmonious relationship that existed in Palestine for the 500 years prior to political Zionism, provides encouragement.

Mooser
Mooser on December 14, 2019, 8:40 pm

“The UN and the rest of the world should enforce the Israeli border the UN established in 1947.”

That won’t be necessary if the United States would stop footing the bill for Israeli intransigence.

RoHa
RoHa on December 14, 2019, 8:36 pm

“Corbyn’s treason to his working-class base ”

The Labour Party stopped paying attention to the working class years ago. I was in Britain at the time and saw the party being taken over by the artsie-fartsies. When John Smith “had a heart attack”, the party was becoming Blairite.

Mooser
Mooser on December 14, 2019, 8:31 pm

Very true, I guess the name of the place is irrelevant, the “location” is more likely a bloc of ISP addresses.

echinococcus
echinococcus on December 14, 2019, 7:03 pm

Talkback

Bah. Anti-zionism combines a good number of powerful universal humanitarian impulses, viz against tribal religion, confusion of religious following with nation, negation of free thought through imposition of nominal religion, colonialism, racism, theft, genocide, etc.

Presenting it as opposition to all these things in general, ie not limitedly to Palestine but just acros the board, means excluding alliances with any follower of Demolicans or Repucrats (and the similar reigning houses of Europe.) Bad strategy.

David Green
David Green on December 14, 2019, 6:42 pm

Keith: “I will probably be vilified for saying this but I have come to the conclusion that Chomsky was right and that BDS has been very counter productive…”

Perhaps, but certainly not by me.

It’s been clear from my campus-oriented perspective that BDS has been a distraction from the sort of education that needs to continue, cohort after cohort; and from emphasizing the relationship of I/P to USFP, and anti-imperialist anti-war movements.

Keith
Keith on December 14, 2019, 5:55 pm

ECHINOCOCCUS- “Why “exclusively”?

Because it is much more difficult to misrepresent attempts to lift the ILLEGAL siege of Gaza as an anti-Semitic attack on the Jewish state. To have any chance of success, the objectives need to be narrowly defined due to the overwhelming disparity in power. Think of it as being somewhat analogous to guerrilla warfare versus a frontal assault by the Light Brigade.

punterweger
punterweger on December 14, 2019, 5:52 pm

Thanks for the clarity, Phil! Israel is delegitimizing itself. Ethnocracy is unacceptable to all who believe in democracy. As you say, “the battle is now for equal rights in Palestine.”

punterweger
punterweger on December 14, 2019, 5:51 pm

First, @Donald is perfectly correct – any effective tactic to bring about justice for Palestinians will be deemed anti-Semitic. Secondly, “Mowing the lawn” in Gaza is not a response to BDS but required to keep the Israeli electorate terrified to ensure they continue voting for the right. Finally, concerning our freedoms in the privileged West, let’s remember that both Nelson Mandela and MLK reminded us that none of us will be free unless their people are. So @Keith, you better get ready for the fight if you want to keep your rights.

eljay
eljay on December 14, 2019, 5:42 pm

Zionists are right: Israel – a deliberately and unapologetically colonialist, (war) criminal and religion-supremacist state – should not be “singled out”. It should receive exactly the same treatment that Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen and Syria have received and with which Iran continues to be existentially threatened.

But you’ll never hear a Zionist advocate this, because they much prefer that Israel be “singled out” for special treatment including unquestioning economic, political, military and financial support.

Zionist whining about anti-Zionism is a bad joke. But no-one ever said aggressor-victimhood was an easy gig.  :-(

JustJessetr
JustJessetr on December 14, 2019, 5:32 pm

@ Echinoccocus

“China, Chad are not a society of bloodthirsty, genocidal alien colonial settlers on the territory of their victims.”

And this, folks, is exactly what Israelis hear behind BDS’s so-called progressivism. Armchair purists who lives in the US on stolen land proposing others do something he will never do himself.

You’re not kidding anybody. You never have. But maybe your pristine morality can pass the blockade and can be eaten by Gaza’s children.

eljay
eljay on December 14, 2019, 5:26 pm

|| JustaJester: … Boycotting the Jews since the 20s … ||

You can always count on a Zionist to anti-Semitically conflate Zionism with all Jews and all Jews with Zionism.

JustJessetr
JustJessetr on December 14, 2019, 5:15 pm

I won’t vilify you. Chomsky (and Finkelstien who was shown a great deal of disrespect and shunning for saying the same thing) has been correct all along. And that’s why I say it myself.

Boycotting the Jews since the 20s, boycotting Israel since the 40’s has made Israel stronger and Palestinians weaker. Anyone care to argue those facts?

Careful Keith, you may be called a “Zionist” now. You have my sympathies for speaking your mind.

Keith
Keith on December 14, 2019, 5:12 pm

MICHAEL STEVEN SMITH- “Heller shows that Trump and some rightwing Israelis fostered the antisemitic portrayal of George Soros as a controlling mastermind.”

Fostered? Soros is a controlling financier with close links to the CIA and the Democratic Party. His “Open Society” organization promotes societies open to financial penetration and control, and was/is involved in numerous “color revolution” destabilizations. Soros has caused a lot of pain in Eastern Europe and elsewhere. That is reality. Defending Soros by saying Orban and Netanyahu’s son dislike him isn’t much of a defense. And who would defend Soros except a liberal imperialist? Perhaps someone tied in with JVP which receives Soros funding indirectly? And philanthropy is nothing more than privatized social engineering.

echinococcus
echinococcus on December 14, 2019, 4:57 pm

MDM,

“And yet… they have been happily supporting it for 50 years, and will go on so doing for another 40 years if not forced to choose between their humanity and their tribalism.”

If not forced, rather, to a choice between completing their landgrab and genocide openly, on one hand, and on the other completing it while pretending to oppose it, so as to incur fewer diplomatic side effects.

Keith
Keith on December 14, 2019, 4:42 pm

STANLEY HELLER- “Zionist Betrayal of Jews: From Herzl to Netanyahu”

Has anyone ever written a book about the Zionist betrayal of non-Jews?

Talkback
Talkback on December 14, 2019, 4:40 pm

lyn117: “if Jewish zionists didn’t put themselves front and center in this racist endeavor, perhaps they wouldn’t get “singled out”.”

They are singling themselves out. But that’s not the point. They need YOU to be “antizionist” or “antiisrael” or “Pro-Palestinian” so they can claim that it is YOU singling them out. They can’t do that if anyone rejects these labels and strictly formulates arguments based on universal principles without even using the word “Jews”, “Zionist Jews”, “Israel”, etc. That’s because they know that they can’t make a case for Israel without using the word “Jews”, “Jewish” history, genes, ties, etc.. They know that they can’t formulate a universal principle and only fabricate Jewish exclusive rights and claims.

Talkback
Talkback on December 14, 2019, 4:34 pm

Donald: “You seem to be saying what Zionists say— that antizionists focus exclusively on Israeli sins.”

Well that’s what they do as “antizionists”. Otherwise this identifier is pointless. If you are an antifascist on the other hand it doesn’t mean that you only focus on Nazi Germany’s or Italy’s sins in the past. All this ideologies like Fascism, Communism, etc. are not connected with a certain people. Zionism on the other hand is. This is what enables Zionist to frame antizionism as antisemitism. That’s the box were Zionists like Nathan wants to put you when he says “Anti-Israel-crowd”, “Pro-Palestinian”, etc.. It’s this manipulative language that needs to distract from the fact that the rejection of Zionism or Israel’s official nature and apartheid policies is based on universal principles. He needs to have you in this Jewish exclusive box.

Donald: “I can speak for myself — this is false.”

I know. But it is in their best interest that you label yourself being an antizionist so they can claim that you do only focus exclusively on Israeli sins. It’s a twisted way of Jewish exclusivism.

Talkback
Talkback on December 14, 2019, 4:13 pm

echi: “In fact, anti-Zionism is even more universal than that: it supposes rejection of any settler (replacement) colonialism, ie historically also the American and Australian settlements. It also implies rejection of non-geographically-based “nations” patched together of wildly unrelated ethnicities.”

Anti-settler-colonialism is the universal approach, antizionism is only against Jewish settler colonialism.

genesto
genesto on December 14, 2019, 4:08 pm

I see it the way I believe Gandhi would have seen it when he famously said, “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

We are now at stage three, with a fierce battle being waged over the future of Zionism. I’m convinced that stage four, victory over this racist ideology, will be achieved one day.

genesto
genesto on December 14, 2019, 4:07 pm

I see it the way I believe Gandhi would have seen it when he famously said, “First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.”

We are now at stage three, with a fierce battle being waged over the future of Zionism. I’m convinced that stage four, victory over this racist ideology, will be achieved one day.

echinococcus
echinococcus on December 14, 2019, 3:54 pm

Mooser’s last hit-and-run:

““Blacklisted” so thoroughly it has been expunged from your comment?”

Let’s hear it, please: exactly how would that be relevant? How is that needed to justify any of the censorship? Out, please.

just
just on December 14, 2019, 3:46 pm

Thanks for this review of a book that seems spot on and overdue. It goes to my perpetual argument that Zionism is NOT Judaism and that those that seek to equate the two are doing a great disservice to faith and culture. Zionism is pure politics and ideology, and is corrupt/corruptible and well, nasty and xenophobic/ethnocentric.

Thanks most especially for this truth:

“As Heller shows convincingly, despite its self-promotion, Israel is not the moral legatee of the victims of the Holocaust, much less of the prophets of the Hebrew people. The history of Zionism is a sordid one. By stripping it of its moral authority it will help all of us fighting for the human rights of Palestinians against Zionism‘s ongoing genocide.”

We can all get back to calling Palestine by its name and the same for the Palestinians! I have always done so, but am sick to death of hearing and seeing ‘Judea and Samaria’ as if the Occupied Palestinian Territories aren’t there and that Israel is not responsible for this illegal and seemingly neverending evil.

Keith
Keith on December 14, 2019, 3:20 pm

SIBIRIAK- “Unfortunately, I have been denied all access to the MW site for some time now because my location has been blacklisted by MW.”

I suspect that this is much bigger than Mondoweiss. The internet is a created dependency which is starting to be withdrawn from selected “enemies.” Contrary to misinformed opinion, it is one of the most powerful means of social control devised. Two quotes for you. The first is by “The Saker” and speaks for itself. The second is from a must-read (seriously) book by Douglas Valentine who has spent 40 years investigating the CIA. Due to a fortuitous misunderstanding by former CIA Director William Colby, Valentine was granted access he would not have been without the misunderstanding. He could well be the number one expert on the CIAs nefarious activities.

“First, the US deep state has been very active in suppressing pro-Russian blogs, and mine is no exception. Since YouTube is not crucial to my work, and since I don’t monetize the blog in any way and since we pay top dollar to host our servers away from where they could be simply disconnected (sorry, can’t go into details), the Saker blog was probably hit less hard than others. Still, it is pretty clear that US search engines have pushed the Saker blog way down from where it used to be and that has resulted in fewer new readers than before. No biggie, really, as I truly don’t care about quantity but only about the quality of the audience we reach. Yet, in spite of all that, our readership is pretty constant, fluctuating most depending on the international situation: more in times of crises, less in times of relative peace. All in all, this issue is not a worry for me.” (The Saker) http://thesaker.is/saker-message-a-thank-you-a-state-of-the-blog-report-and-a-perfect-storm-warning/

“Back in the mid-1990s I took a class in the hypertext language. And to my surprise, we were taught that all information was routed through super processors in Langley. Putin recently said that the internet was a CIA special project and he was right. I remember when the Defense Advanced Research Project Agency came out with ARPANET, which started helping us to access information in the college libraries back in the early 1990s. It was all done under the Department of Defense, which was fronting for the CIA.

So our internet capabilities are a new freedom, but at the same time we enjoy this freedom by leave of the CIA. If they wanted to, they could shut it down in a minute. They control it and they monitor every aspect of it. If we actually were doing something that threatened them, they would know about it in a nanosecond and our activities would be stopped. But we’re just mosquitos.” (p141, “The CIA as Organized Crime: How Illegal Operations Corrupt America and the World,” Douglas Valentine).

echinococcus
echinococcus on December 14, 2019, 3:15 pm

RoHa,

I think it will be exceedingly hard to extricate from each other the respective roles of 1) Corbyn’s treason to his promise to a prompt exit without a second vote, and 2) Corbyn’s treason to his working-class base by abjectly capitulating to the Blairite varmint’s, accepting Zionist racism and expelling party comrades.

Who in his right mind votes for such a candidate, ever? But then the same thing may be asked of almost all US voters, too.

Misterioso
Misterioso on December 14, 2019, 3:01 pm

Exposing the ignorance of Trump and his toady son in law, Jared Kushner:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/13/antisemitism-executive-order-trump-chilling-effect

The Guardian 13 Dec 2019

“I drafted the definition of antisemitism. Right wing Jews are weaponizing it. The ‘working definition of antisemitism’ was never intended to silence speech, but that’s what Trump’s executive order accomplished this week.’

By Kenneth Stern

“Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and special adviser, wrote in the New York Times that the definition ‘makes clear [that] Anti-Zionism is antisemitism.’

“Fifteen years ago, as the American Jewish Committee’s antisemitism expert, I was the lead drafter of what was then called the ‘working definition of antisemitism.’ It was created primarily so that European data collectors could know what to include and exclude. That way antisemitism could be monitored better over time and across borders.

‘It was never intended to be a campus hate speech code, but that’s what Donald Trump’s executive order accomplished this week. This order is an attack on academic freedom and free speech, and will harm not only pro-Palestinian advocates, but also Jewish students and faculty, and the academy itself.

‘The problem isn’t that the executive order affords protection to Jewish students under title VI of the Civil Rights Act. The Department of Education made clear in 2010 that Jews, Sikhs and Muslims (as ethnicities) could complain about intimidation, harassment and discrimination under this provision. I supported this clarification and filed a successful complaint for Jewish high school students when they were bullied, even kicked (there was a “Kick a Jew Day.”)

“But starting in 2010, right wing Jewish groups took the ‘working definition,’ which had some examples about Israel (such as holding Jews collectively responsible for the actions of Israel, and denying Jews the right to self-determination), and decided to weaponize it with title VI
cases. While some allegations were about acts, mostly they complained about speakers, assigned texts and protests they said violated the definition. All these cases lost, so then these same groups asked the University of California to adopt the definition and apply it to its campuses. When that failed, they asked Congress, and when those efforts stalled, the president.

“As proponents of the executive order like the Zionist Organization of America make clear, they see the application of the definition as ‘cover[ing] many of the anti-Jewish outrages … frequently led by … Students for Justice in Palestine, including … calls for ‘intifada’ [and] demonizing Israel.’ As much as I disagree with SJP, it has the right to make ‘calls.’ That’s called free speech.

‘If you think this isn’t about suppressing political speech, contemplate a parallel. There’s no definition of anti-black racism that has the force of law when evaluating a title VI case. If you were to craft one, would you include opposition to affirmative action? Opposing removal of Confederate statues?

“Jared Kushner, the president’s son-in-law and special adviser, wrote in the New York Times that the definition ‘makes clear [that] Anti-Zionism is antisemitism.’ I’m a Zionist. But on a college campus, where the purpose is to explore ideas, anti-Zionists have a right to free expression. I suspect that if Kushner or I had been born into a Palestinian family displaced in
1948, we might have a different view of Zionism, and that need not be because we vilify Jews or think they conspire to harm humanity. Further, there’s a debate inside the Jewish community whether being Jewish requires one to be a Zionist. I don’t know if this question can be resolved, but it should frighten all Jews that the government is essentially defining the answer for us.

“The real purpose of the executive order isn’t to tip the scales in a few title VI cases, but rather the chilling effect. ZOA and other groups will hunt political speech with which they disagree, and threaten to bring legal cases. I’m worried administrators will now have a strong motivation to suppress, or at least condemn, political speech for fear of litigation. I’m worried that faculty, who can just as easily teach about Jewish life in 19th-century Poland or about modern Israel, will probably choose the former as safer. I’m worried that pro-Israel Jewish students and groups, who rightly complain when an occasional pro-Israel speaker is heckled, will get
the reputation for using instruments of state to suppress their political opponents.

“Antisemitism is a real issue, but too often people, both on the political right and political left, give it a pass if a person has the ‘right’ view on Israel. Historically, antisemitism thrives best when leaders stoke the human capacity to define an ‘us’ and a ‘them,’ and where the integrity of democratic institutions and norms (such as free speech) are under assault.

“Rather than champion the chilling of expressions that pro-Israel Jews find disturbing, or give the mildest criticism (if any) of a president who repeatedly uses antisemitic tropes, why weren’t those Jewish officials who were present when Trump signed the executive order reminding him that last year, when he demonized immigrants and called them ‘invaders,’ Robert Bowers walked into a Pittsburgh synagogue because he believed Jews were behind this “invasion” of brown people as part of a plot to harm white people, and killed 11 of us?”
__________________________________________________________.
Kenneth Stern is the director of the Bard Center for the Study of Hate,
and the author of the forthcoming “The Conflict Over the Conflict: The Israel/Palestine Campus Debate.”

tommy
tommy on December 14, 2019, 2:46 pm

The UN’s partition plan and recognition of the State of Israel answer the question, even if one disagrees these decision from that flawed institution. However, the UN’s legitimization of Israel as a state includes well delineated borders, which should be adhered to and used to eliminate all Israeli nationalist squatters from all territories outside them. The UN and the rest of the world should enforce the Israeli border the UN established in 1947.

tommy
tommy on December 14, 2019, 2:41 pm

Haunt Michael Oren with his hatred of Palestinians.

Donald
Donald on December 14, 2019, 2:26 pm

I’m a little confused. You seem to be saying what Zionists say— that antizionists focus exclusively on Israeli sins. I can speak for myself — this is false. This particular website focuses mostly on Israel. That’s its purpose, Nothing wrong with that, even if personally I would like to see a bigger site that focuses more on US imperialism in general ( and the crimes of its allies). But Phil doesn’t have endless resources and people choose their issues. Nobody can cover them all.

Donald
Donald on December 14, 2019, 2:21 pm

“ Focusing exclusively on Israel’s human rights violations such as the siege of Gaza would have been better.”

People mostly do that. BDS in itself doesn’t hurt Israel at all economically afaik. What it does is tell people “ Israel is an apartheid state worth boycotting just like South Africa was.” The pro Israel side is sufficiently worried by this message to launch a counterattack trying to get local state and the Federal government to condemn BDS as antisemitic, with some success. But they would obviously prefer that nobody even know that people are boycotting Israel as an apartheid state.

You say “ exclusively” and maybe you are right. I’m not really arguing with you on this because I’m not sure what to think. But I am sure that whatever tactic is used will face very similar counterattacks from the other side.

Ossinev
Ossinev on December 14, 2019, 2:14 pm

All fairly predictable and no doubt featuring prominently in the Ministry of Strategic Affairs` power point presentations is the fact that the British Zios including that nice Rabbi Mirvis and his acolytes will now switch their eternal victimhood whinging from the “institutional A/S in the Corbyn led Labour Party ” crap to claims of rampant Anti – Semitism everywhere within British Society at large. Every non – Jewish human being and their pets will be now labelled as inherently Anti – Semitic.
https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium-jews-not-corbynism-will-be-blamed-for-labour-s-disaster-1.8264284

So the Ziofreaks won the bout but all they will want to do (and be instructed to do ) is moan whinge and slobber about how unfair it was that the referee even allowed their “opponent” to throw defensive punches.

It is in their warped universe quite simply unfair to allow innocent or defenceless non – Jews to resist or to fight back when they are being savaged by rabid Zios

And of course life simply won`t be worth living if they lose their world title as the greatest victims in the history of primates.

lyn117
lyn117 on December 14, 2019, 1:38 pm

Probably most zionists are Christians, of course, the Jewish zionists appear to lead in enforcing racism & ethnic cleansing, and suppressing free speech & non-violent opposition to the ethnic cleansing in whatever form. I wouldn’t discount the wacky biblical notions of Christian zionists, but if Jewish zionists didn’t put themselves front and center in this racist endeavor, perhaps they wouldn’t get “singled out”. NPR just interviewed 2 Jews on the the new executive order and no pro-BDS people, just who there is singling out Jews? NPR isn’t anti-zionist.

Zionists accuse anti-zionists of singling out Israel and Jews, however, I don’t know any anti-zionists who oppose the theoretical right of Jews to have a state of their own, on the condition they don’t employ mass murder, terror and apartheid to create or enforce its Jewishness.

Correction: Not sure about the religion of the interviewees on NPR, but Ari Shapiro interviewed TOM GJELTEN (of NPR), JAMES LOEFFLER, professor of Jewish History, and JONATHAN GREENBLATT of the Anti-Defamation League.

Elizabeth Block
Elizabeth Block on December 14, 2019, 1:12 pm

I just wrote this to the NY Times. Think they’ll print it?

The Israeli government, with the support of Donald Trump and Zionists, wants to criminalize non-violent protest against Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians.

I am an anti-Zionist Jew. I don’t support violent protest, though I can understand it, as the New York Times can understand those who want to make it against the law to support the non-violent Boycott-Divestment-Sanctions (BDS) movement.

Palestinians and their supporters are trying, in the words of the Declaration of Independence, to “let Facts be submitted to a candid world.” It appears that when they do so on campuses, they make some Jewish students (presumably the Zionists) uncomfortable. I’m glad. It should make them uncomfortable. It shows that their consciences are still alive.

Maximus Decimus Meridius
Maximus Decimus Meridius on December 14, 2019, 1:07 pm

“What it is doing in the occupied territories is completely unsupportable even to liberal Zionists”

And yet… they have been happily supporting it for 50 years, and will go on so doing for another 40 years if not forced to choose between their humanity and their tribalism. And when put to the test, they will choose the latter. There is no such thing as a ‘liberal’ Zionist.

Maximus Decimus Meridius
Maximus Decimus Meridius on December 14, 2019, 12:55 pm

No doubt about it, the antisemitism industry in Britain – of which ‘Lord’ Mann is a senior member, has got an emormous boost from its role in successfully destroying Corbyn’s political career. It certainly was not the only factor, or even the main factor, but it played a crucial role, allowing the openly racist nasty party to smear a man who had campaigned against racism and prejudice of all sorts for decades.

So no surprise at all that they are coming for independent leftist media under the cloak of ‘antisemitism’. They’re on a roll and are going to go all out. But one thing occurs to me: If,, as the antisemitism industry has been claiming these past few years, antisemitism is a form of racism, why do we need special, well funded committees to deal with it? We don’t have committees for anti-black racism, or anti-Asian racism, yet these are much larger communities in Britain.

echinococcus
echinococcus on December 14, 2019, 12:46 pm

Right. The way to make them understand the word Zionism, though, is to use it always, consistently, instead of repeating the obfuscating words of the enemy, like “Israel”, “I/P”, etc.

echinococcus
echinococcus on December 14, 2019, 12:40 pm

Talkback

“I have come to the conclusion that (secular) anti-Zionism is indeed antisemitism, because it rejects only Jewish voelkish nationalism/Apartheid…”

Would only be so if it did not reject any other invention of a non-existing “Volk” based exclusively on a religion, and one that is not by definition observed or practiced by its members, to boot. In fact, anti-Zionism is even more universal than that: it supposes rejection of any settler (replacement) colonialism, ie historically also the American and Australian settlements. It also implies rejection of non-geographically-based “nations” patched together of wildly unrelated ethnicities.

So, anti-Zionism may be universalist on several distinct levels but it should not reject anyone who might be joining because of a specialized prejudice against things Jewish, either. Most of what is decried as antisemitism is not racist (= prejudice based on accident of birth) anyway. Rejecting any support from political non-universalists, those who support the American Empire while opposing only its Palestinian extension, would be utterly stupid, too, by excluding all followers of both US parties…

Mooser
Mooser on December 14, 2019, 12:19 pm

” because my location has been blacklisted by MW. “

“Blacklisted” so thoroughly it has been expunged from your comment?

echinococcus
echinococcus on December 14, 2019, 12:08 pm

“Focusing exclusively on Israel’s human rights violations such as the siege of Gaza would have been better.”

Why “exclusively”? BDS agitation is certainly a major tool to inform and educate people on the facts of the siege and the human rights violations, while continuous discussion of colonialism and territorial rights places the human rights violations in the proper causal context. Local acts of resistance against occupiers create bitterly needed awareness of the siege, as the deafening Zue and Zry for one Jewish fingernail clipping call way more attention than thousands of “Arabs” slaughtered in cold blood. Many other lines of activity contribute to the efficacy.

While I agree that the human rights aspect must be the *main focus of a public campaign during crisis times of Gaza attacks, making it *exclusively so is like pulling its legs from under it.

Mooser
Mooser on December 14, 2019, 12:04 pm

“Now they are more equal than equal in the US, too.”

I finally achieve my dream of getting on the Endangered Species list. (but only after Trump has gutted the EPA. Oh well, Azoy vert dos kichel tzekrochen! )

just
just on December 14, 2019, 11:49 am

It’s good to see you again, Kate.

All I can say after reading this is thank goodness for B’Tselem and ptooey on the IOF, the Israeli government and its armed and vicious mercenaries/hitmen, including the illegal settlers and its lawmakers, too. I read a lot of these accounts earlier, and Hagai El- Ad’s in +972 still sticks with me. Thanks for including it in your compilation. To think that no Christians in Gaza will be allowed into Bethlehem and Jerusalem for Christmas is completely insane. While Israelis are making money hand over fist from foreign tourists visiting same, the indigenous Palestinians are prohibited. Then again, they allow (with protection!!!) Yehuda Glick (US born) to perform rituals for and with illegal settlers at Al- Aqsa Mosque!

Yesterday, I read a tragic piece by Gideon Levy that I can sadly recommend (behind paywall):

“‘I Said, Get Up, Mother. Then I Realized She Was Dead’: Survivors of Israel’s Gaza Strike Speak Out

An 11-year-old girl in Gaza lost her parents, her brothers and her home when the Israeli air force bombed Dir al-Balah last month. New testimonies from the inferno

Noor Sawarka is an 11-year-old girl, in the sixth grade. On November 14, 2019, the Israeli air force killed both her parents, Yusra and Mohammed, and her two brothers Muaz, 7, and Waseem, 13,at their home in Dir al-Balah, a city in the central Gaza Strip. Her uncle Rasmi, his wife and their three children were also killed in the Israel Defense Forces attack. All told, nine members of the extended family were killed. Noor remains alone with her five siblings, some of them stepsiblings, orphaned, traumatized, homeless. Last week, she told Olfat al-Kurd, a Gaza-based field researcher of the Israeli human rights organization B’Tselem, about the disaster that befell her and her family.

“I was at home that night. Everyone was sleeping and only I couldn’t fall asleep because of the noise of some airplanes. Afterward I heard tremendous thunder when they bombed our house. My sisters Nirmin and Reem were sleeping next to me. I ran outside fast – without seeing a thing, because the electricity was cut off by the bombing. I heard three bombings within a few seconds. At that moment I saw Nirmin, who also tried to escape but didn’t succeed, because both of her legs were hit.

“I moved away from the house and when the bombing stopped, I went back and started to look for my sisters. Instead of a house there were was a pile of ruins and large pits. I found Wissam, my uncle’s wife, and her children, and together we started to look for my sisters and my cousins. I found my sister Reem buried under sand. Her face was covered with blood. I tried to save her, to pull her out of the sand. I found my brother Salem and my sister Lama next to my mother, who recited the ‘Shahada’ prayer [the statement of Muslim faith], and then was silent. I tried to wake her up, I said, ‘Get up, Mother, get up,’ but she didn’t hear me. I realized that she was dead. …”

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.MAGAZINE-i-said-get-up-mother-then-i-realized-she-s-dead-testimonies-from-gaza-inferno-1.8263201?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

pabelmont
pabelmont on December 14, 2019, 11:37 am

Citizen: ” the average American has not a clue” is true about lots of things. The whole system of so-called democratic governance in the USA where big-money directs and “the people” don’t know it and “haven’t a clue” is pervasive.

And the mystification of global warming/climate{change/crisis/catastrophe/cataclysm (GWCC in each case) is another example. Major media mystify or are silent, politicians, ditto.

Nathan
Nathan on December 14, 2019, 11:27 am

Talkback – Mahmoud Abbas, indeed, rejects the Partition Plan. I phrased that sentence in the present tense deliberately. The position of the PLO and the position of the Fatah movement (and Mr Abbas heads both organizations) is quite clear: The Partition Plan is illegitimate, period. So, when Mr Abbas wrote his article in the NY Times in Nov 2012, he complained that the Palestinians didn’t get the state that was promised to them in accordance to the Partition Plan (which he absolutely rejects). Obviously, he didn’t mention that he rejects the plan because that would have spoiled his angle of propaganda.

I wonder why Phil repeats this strange grievance. I would imagine that he, too, rejects the Partition Plan. The Partition Plan calls for the founding of a Jewish state as well, so if Phil feels that the “promise” of a Palestinian state should have been kept, well, it means that he accepts the legitimacy of the Partition Plan (and that includes a Jewish state).

You should take note of the fact that the Partition Plan does not deal with the issue of indigenous populations or immigrant populations. The Partition Plan calls on the two communities to found their respective states. The Palestinians could have founded their state, and that would have been the fulfillment of their right of self-determination. It is quite silly to cry today that the promise was not kept. Others don’t fulfill your right of SELF-determinaion. The word “self” is used also in other connections (such as “washing oneself”), so it’s clear what self-determination means.

BTW, the grand mufti did declare the founding of an “all-Palestine state”. However, like many of the Palestinian moves, it was just bla-bla-bla. Hajj Amin didn’t really set up a state. Eventually, the Egyptians canceled the mufti’s do-nothing “government” in Gaza (and the Jordanians annexed the West Bank).

Keith
Keith on December 14, 2019, 10:50 am

DONALD- “There might be better tactics.”

Focusing exclusively on Israel’s human rights violations such as the siege of Gaza would have been better.

DONALD- “Not sure what particular tactic is supposed to break through the extreme racism on this subject.”

The power imbalance is so extreme that it is difficult to contemplate success. As they say, the strong do what they will, the weak suffer what they must. I have no solution. Neither am I an armchair purist while others do the suffering.

Keith
Keith on December 14, 2019, 10:40 am

TALKBACK- “I have come to the conclusion that (secular) anti-Zionism is indeed antisemitism….”

This would be true ONLY if sectarianism was intrinsic to Judaism/Jewishness.

Citizen
Citizen on December 14, 2019, 10:08 am

A few years ago the esteemed scholar Norman Finkelstein said that Americans wouldn’t argue about Zionism because they didn’t know what it was, it might as well be a hairspray. So true, so true. But the Zionists know what Zionism is, and they love the fact the average American has not a clue.

Misterioso
Misterioso on December 14, 2019, 10:07 am

How disgusting to see Rep. Steve Howit kow tow to “Israel,” a serial, escalating violator of international law. We can be certain he will receive a handsome financial contribution from the Zionist lobby.

Citizen
Citizen on December 14, 2019, 10:01 am

I don’t see this at all.

Misterioso
Misterioso on December 14, 2019, 9:58 am

Zionism on the world stage:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-israel-s-shameful-role-in-myanmar-s-genocidal-campaign-against-the-rohingya-1.8256822

“Israel’s Shameful Role in Myanmar’s Genocidal Campaign Against the Rohingya”
Haaretz, Dec. 11/19 by Charles Dunst.

“Peace icon turned pariah Aung San Suu Kyi is in The Hague defending Myanmar from genocide charges. Israel gave Myanmar’s military regime the tools and diplomatic space to carry out those atrocities.”

“The Israeli embassy in Myanmar’s former capital of Yangon sits just outside the city center off Inya Lake, protected by automatic weapon-bearing local guards and thick unscalable walls.

“I visited in December 2018 to interview Israel’s envoy Ronen Gilor about Myanmar’s dwindling Jewish community. But when I brought up the Myanmar military’s widely-reported persecution of the Rohingya Muslims – an issue relevant to anyone’s relationship with Myanmar – and of Israeli arms sales to that same force, Ambassador Gilor pushed back and refused to answer my questions.

“When we spoke, Gilor extended an ‘open invitation to visit Israel’ to Myanmar’s leader Aung San Suu Kyi, a peace icon turned pariah for her inaction during and apathy towards the military’s continued crimes.

“Last week, Gilor on Twitter wished Suu Kyi ‘encouragement for a good decision and good luck’ as she traveled to The Hague to personally defend Myanmar from International Criminal Court (ICJ) charges of Rohingya genocide. Gilor deleted the tweet; Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs said it had been written ‘in error.’

“Israeli arms and military technology sales to Myanmar have earned Jerusalem scorn. But after Gilor’s tweet, Israel’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs surprisingly condemned ‘the atrocities that took place in the Rakhine region against the Rohingya.’ Israel previously refused to use the term ‘Rohingya’ seemingly in deference to the Myanmar government that rejects the term and does not recognize the Rohingya as citizens, instead considering them ‘Bengalis.’

“But this new Israeli statement is still too passive. Most glaringly, it fails to note who committed these ‘atrocities.’

“Now, as Myanmar faces charges for the world’s worst crime – and India, another Israeli ally, passes legislation paving the way towards similar exclusion and violence – it is more necessary than ever that Israeli leaders ensure that the Jewish state and people never facilitate, or even tacitly tolerate, genocide.

“In 2016, the Myanmar military intensified its decades-long persecution of the Rohingya, setting fire to their villages, throwing their babies into fires, raping their women, and decapitating their boys. Over a million Rohingya fled; thousands were killed. As the head of the U.N.’s fact-finding mission for Myanmar told U.S. officials in late October: ‘It is an ongoing genocide that is taking place at the moment.’

“But Israel’s government remained quiet up until this past week, seemingly thanks to its relationship with Myanmar which dates back to the Southeast Asian nation’s Burmese days.

“Both countries secured independence in 1948. Burma’s first prime minister U Nu had a ‘soft spot for Israel,’ was close with David Ben-Gurion, and was the first premier to visit Israel. The Israel-Burma relationship was important, as Gilor told me last year, because the former provided the latter proximity to China and India – countries with whom Israel had limited relations.

“Most Burmese are not aware of Judaism, but as Sammy Samuels, the de facto head of Myanmar’s Jewish community, told me in Yangon’s sole sweltering synagogue: ‘They fully respect Israel.’

“Israel reciprocated this courtesy, giving a green light to Israeli weapons manufacturers to arm Myanmar’s military through the fall of 2017, even after accusations of anti-Rohingya violence surfaced, and both the European Union and the United States placed Myanmar under an arms embargo and sanctions.

“After a late 2017 High Court challenge, Israel claimed to have stopped selling advanced weaponry to Myanmar’s military. But public relations dust-ups – Myanmar’s Israeli envoy later said Israel was still selling his country weapons; Burmese officials were in June 2019 spotted at a Tel Aviv weapons expo – have undermined Israel’s position and credibility.

“Gilor’s endorsements of Suu Kyi to Myanmar’s media aren’t helping.

“‘Suu Kyi now is a leader of a country. She is not any more a human rights activist. She is a leader and, as a leader, she has to take care of many things,’ Gilor said of the Rohingya crisis last December. ‘For example, the relationship with the Myanmar military, which is very important.’

“The word ‘Rohingya’ never appears in the article; Gilor instead calls them ‘the Rakhine people.’ That refers to the Bangladesh-bordering Myanmar state whose north the Rohingya once called home, and from which the Myanmar military terror drove them. Gilor is again here toeing the Myanmar state line on preferred terminology.

“Israel’s apparent acquiescence to these atrocities seems to stem from Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s traditionally pragmatic-opportunistic pursuit of relations with any country amenable to diplomatic relations, no matter if they are helmed by unsavory leaders like Chadian despot Idriss Déby, Azerbaijani autocrat Ilham Aliyev, or Rwandan tyrant Paul Kagame, among others.

“There is some realist merit to Israel, indeed isolated in its own backyard, extending its diplomatic arms as far as possible. But tolerating and enabling Myanmar’s genocide is an obvious step too far.

“The Israeli government’s recent criticism of Myanmar, while a step in the right direction, still lets the country’s criminal actors off the hook. Gilor’s support of Suu Kyi remains more reflective of Israel’s general Myanmar policy: a largely unconditional backing, even when Myanmar, mirroring the Nazi playbook for otherizing and then murdering Jews, disowned and otherized the Rohingya to normalize the subsequent commission of genocidal horrors against them.

“Indeed, as Abubacarr Tambadou of Gambia, which brought the Rohingya genocide case to the ICJ, cited philosopher Edmund Burke’s forceful words while standing in the trial chamber just feet from Suu Kyi: ‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.’

“‘Every day of inaction means that more people are being killed, more women are being ravaged and more children are being burnt alive,’ Tambadou added. ‘For what crime? Only because they were born different.’

“The international community’s laconic approach and deprioritization of protecting a victimized minority let Europe’s Jews die during the Holocaust; Israel’s similar equanimity gave Myanmar the tools and space to carry out atrocities against the Rohingya. It is a sad subversion of the post-World War II ‘Never again!’ rallying cry.

“Israel, founded in the embers of the Jewish people’s genocide, failed to live up to that ideal.

“With human rights groups now warning of potential genocide in India, another Israeli ally, Jerusalem must conduct some soul-searching and adjust its calculations to never again replicate Israel’s grave Myanmar errors. Never again should the Jewish State enable any country, particularly one of its allies, to carry out a genocide.

“We, of all peoples, should know better.”

Charles Dunst is an M.Sc. candidate in International Relations at the London School of Economics, and a journalist whose reporting from Southeast Asia has appeared in The New York Times, The Atlantic, Foreign Policy, and the Los Angeles Times, among other publications.

Citizen
Citizen on December 14, 2019, 9:58 am

I agree. Has the ACLU been trying to get the issue of anti-BDS legislation to SCOTUS? If not, why not? If so, anybody got a time frame for when SCOTUS will address the First Amendment issue involved?