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Not really. The difference between “the 1949 Armistice Lines” and the so-called “1967 borders” is that Israel setup their own DMZs and disarmed the Arab owners of the land. The DMZs were declared “closed military zones”, and the Arab cultivators permanently expelled. Moshe Dayan famously admitted the IDF sent armored tractors in to plow the fields to deliberately draw Syrian fire, and justify the operation plans for the IDF reprisals. 

Israel lifted its military rule over the state’s Arab community in 1966 only after ascertaining that its members could not return to any of the villages they had fled or the closed military zones they had been expelled from, according to newly declassified archival documents. The documents both reveal the considerations behind the creation of the military government 18 years earlier, and the reasons for dismantling it and revoking the severe restrictions it imposed on Arab citizens in the north, the Negev and the so-called Triangle of Locales in central Israel.

Michael Oren admits the Six Day War actually began in 1966, when Israel launched its massive invasion of as Sammu, a town in the Hebron Governorate of the West Bank, of Jordan.

Omer Bartov, in his new book, Israel: what went wrong?, put it succindtly: that Israel was a democracy between December 1966, when martial law for non-Jews in Israel ended, and June 1967, when the occupation of the Gaza and the West Bank began.

Where in my comment did you read a demand to look away from US imperialism’s crimes or those of the apartheid, genocidal State of Israel? The people of Iran, a large proportion of whom have shown by their actions how they utterly detest the criminal gangsters in charge, tell the world they want a secular, democratic society not governed by regressive mullahs, by Israel or by the USA. Are you not interested in what Iranian people want?

Israel, despite its efforts and expenditure of substantial sums, does not dictate US foreign policy any more than does my government here in the UK. Israel is a useful attack dog for US imperialism in the region, ensuring continued US hegemony so that the profits keep flowing to American corporations and oligarchs.

Claiming that some Jewish people control America – which otherwise would be a much nicer place – has a long, sordid history. Let’s not pursue that lie.

The recent Senate vote was about “offensive” weapons, yet it was not successful.

The bad PR Israel has earned, and may even get worse, has not broken the bonds based on religious belief. Staunce supporters know Israelis can be hard-hearted and arrogant, yet they still lend support…. and that is unlikely to change much. Note what Netanyahu is currently getting away with. Palestine is beng decimated before our eyes… on a daily basis.

The handwritting is on the wall. The Palestinian cause can still benefit from creativety aligning with American “values”.

Re: “Look who’s complaining about gaslighting and trolling…Hostage is the one who should stop..”

I’d be happy to stop. You just need to cite an example whenever you think you’ve spotted one.

Your usual canard is that a secular, constitutional demand for equal protection of the laws, equal rights for all, and prosecution of serious crimes, with restitution or reparations paid to victims is “Anti-Jewish” or an attack on Talmudic Judaism. You must have missed the biblical prophets who condemned leaders and individuals who robbed or exploited widows, orphans, and strangers (foreigners), framing that injustice as a severe violation of covenant law that invites divine wrath. YMMV

But “Zionism” is even a non sequitur to Satmar and Neturei Karta who practice “Talmudic” Judaism. They oppose the State of Israel based on their theological belief that Jewish sovereignty in the Holy Land is prohibited. They view Zionism as a blasphemous, secular act that disrupts divine prophecy and often advocate for the dismantling of the State of Israel.

I see no reason everyone can’t do the same things in the USA. It is not antisemitic to practice secular anti-Zionism, based upon secular US Civil Rights laws, the UN Charter & Universal Bill of Rights conventions, and the Hague, Geneva, and Rome Statute humanitarian and criminal treaty prohibitions – with or without regard to “paraochial” views on Judaism.

For example, Krystal Ball, is married to Jonathan Dariyanani, an American Jew. They agree that Israel is an apartheid state. See: ADL Chief BEMOANS Jewish Intermarriage As Israel Support Collapses.

It is being applied to one group and not the other. What happened to the “only democracy….”?

Yes guys, let us forget about the ongoing total wreckage and destruction of the middle east by israel, the apartheid, the genocide, the supremacy etc , and join this “perfect” gentleman to teach Iran a lesson or two, and “burst that bubble”!

Your second sentence needs an English translation.

“We have reached an inflection point in how U.S. citizens view the Israeli state.”
_____________________________________________________________

Missing , but necessary, will remain a plausible concept for co-existence in the minds of voters. Denying “defensive” weapons will unlikely be in the cards.

Any US Politician who continues to sign blank checks that fund apartheid Israel’s extremist colonial policies should be voted out of office. The American people have had enough. Israel has long since forfeited the right to dictate US foreign policy in the Middle East.

Look who’s complaining about gaslighting and trolling…
Hostage is the one who should stop  “inciting to violence or hatred directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by reference to race, color, religion, common descent or common national or ethnic origin.”

ANY nation with an ounce of decency and humanity MUST reject israel!

After years of dealing with the Israeli state, the PA and PLO should know that they, as Palestinians, are in a no win dead end situation as things currently stand – Israel will do as Israel pleases, regardless of how Palestinians act. They need to get on code.
Also, ‘clans’ should have no place in politics.

What’s left is a symbol of what Zionism has done to Judaism and Palestine:
https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/680346089-26491327943870257-5638570532431579137-n.jpg

What to expect next? Israel will violate the ceasefire. And the “most moral army in the world” will continue what it does best:

Killing a journalist (Amal Khalil), while preventing medics to reach herhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amal_Khalil

IDF probes video showing soldiers destroying solar panels in Christian-Lebanese villagehttps://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-894118

Israeli Soldiers Testify to Widespread Looting in Lebanon: ‘Commanders Know and Do Nothing’https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-security/2026-04-23/ty-article/.premium/israeli-soldiers-testify-to-looting-in-lebanon-commanders-know-and-do-nothing/0000019d-b999-d2d7-af9f-bbb986480000

And destroy civilian infrastructure like it did since 1948 to prevent its ethincally cleamsed owners to have something to return to.

At least a few of them still are able to feel, what they truly are.
‘I Felt I Was a Monster’: IDF Soldiers Talk About the ‘Moral Injury’ – and the Silencehttps://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-security/2026-04-17/ty-article-magazine/.premium/when-i-returned-from-gaza-they-called-me-a-hero-but-i-felt-i-was-a-monster/0000019d-966d-de40-ad9f-966d73860000

The “most moral” does what it does best, killing aid workers and other civilians. In this case drivers contracted by UNICEF, so that Palestinians don’t get water:
Statement by UNICEF on the killing of two water truck drivers in the Gaza Striphttps://www.unicef.org/press-releases/statement-unicef-killing-two-water-truck-drivers-gaza-strip-0

Capital punishment is a moral stain on any society, and that includes Iran, China, the USA and Saudi Arabia. Israel’s new law, in its case, is simply more evidence of its moral depravity, as if any were needed. I would welcome a MW investigation into the use of capital punishment in Iran which apparently executed over 1,200 people in 2025. The criminal war of aggression against Iran by Israel and the USA has, it seems, given Iran’s horrifically criminal, corrupt and wealthy ruling class completely undeserved respectability in Western anti-imperialist circles. Let’s burst that bubble.

On the one state reality…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1gJpqkAZ2AE

The comment policy prohibits racial gaslighting and trolling.

Psychological manipulation employed to advocate violence against anyone should be prohibited. I agree no one needs you to “reply in detail” if that means publicly inciting to violence or hatred directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by reference to race, color, religion, common descent or common national or ethnic origin.

That means it’s definitely past time for everyone to stop publicly condoning, denying or grossly trivializing crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes as defined in the Statute of the International Criminal Court (Articles 6, 7 and 8) directed against Palestinians or Israelis.

The status quo ante needs your attention and to change, precisely because the ICJ, ICC, Turkey, Spain, Italy, Switzerland, Hungary, and other UN countries are finally trying to obtain custody and prosecute top officials on either side. That ship has sailed.

As ever, thank you, Qassam, for giving us the kind of information the MSM seldom bothers to publish.

“One example is the Paris Protocol, one of the signed economic agreements with Israel that subordinates Palestinian economic development to the Israeli economy….”

This Paris Protocol stuff is a fine example of how apartheid works – I’d like to see Mondoweiss do some reporting on it. The Protocol was indeed signed by the PLO because Israel demanded acceptance of it as a precondition for allowing Palestinians to work in Israel. It’s a big topic, but basically it’s one of the tools Israel uses to control the natives. Who Profits has a good infographic:

Who Profits – The Israeli Occupation Industry – Codifying Occupation: The Paris Protocol

Also see:

The Paris Protocol | B’Tselem

“The customs union agreed upon gave Israel sole control over the external borders and collection of import taxes and V.A.T., thus enabling Israel to delay transfer of taxes that it collected for the Palestinian Authority, or threaten delay in transferring the monies, as a means of pressure or punishment. Israel employed such a measure several times since the protocol was signed, severely undermining the functioning of public services in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.”

“Free and equal” aligns with world values and entails co-existence. They will work on the name.

Niether did South Africa.

Because once a state claims the right to execute a population it occupies through a system that denies them equal protection under the law, it is not simply crossing a legal line; it is crossing a moral one.

The UK, the EU and other states do business with China, Saudi Arabia and the United States as a matter of course, despite their use of the death penalty and other human rights abuses. Israel would cry hypocrisy and antisemitism the moment the UK imposed any sort of sanction on it for its introduction of hanging. The natural counter-argument to that would be that Israel cannot aspire to be ranked as representing “Western values” if it departs from those values by choice.

jon s: “I did respond to Thomas E. Let me remind you that I’m one of the commenters around here who advocates equal rights and peaceful co-existence and social justice and opposes fascism and racism in all its forms.”

You must have overlooked my rebuttal to your orwellian self delusions. Like you always do.

jon s: “Sure, Jews welcome and enjoy (!) mass atrocities perpetrated against them.

Interesting. You equated ThisWreckage “Jewish supremacists” with “Jews”. What do you want to tell us?

Besides that 82% of Jewish Israelis support the mass expulsion of Palestinians from Gaza.

jon s: “I consider myself a post-Zionist.”

Nope, you are a Zionist.

“I think that Zionism was necessary, justified, even heroic.”

Was it the war to acquire land, the massacres, the destruction of Palestine, the ethnic cleansing, the dispossesions, the creation of an ethocratic state with a fake democracy … what was most heroic to you?

Was or would have been the same heoric, if Jews were the victims?

Form an Interview with Benny Morris:

“Therefore, from my point of view, the need to establish this state in this place overcame the injustice that was done to the Palestinians by uprooting them.”

And morally speaking, you have no problem with that deed?

“That is correct. Even the great American democracy could not have been created without the annihilation of the Indians. There are cases in which the overall, final good justifies harsh and cruel acts that are committed in the course of history.“

I just replaced ‘American’ and ‘Indians’ with ‘Germans’ and ‘Jews’, and my Nazi radar went off the scale.

jon s: “Sorry, I can’t comment on the creation of the Palestinian refugee issue. I could be accused of violating section 2 of the Comments Policy and banned from MW.”

Don’t trouble yourself with Zionist fantasies. It is the fact that they were not allowed to return which finalized their ethnic cleansing.

When the worn out propaganda/hasbara talking points strategies fail, its time to pause and change/switch the approach.

The overwhelming evidence is there regarding the number of destroyed villages, the number of Palestinians expelled at gunpoint who became refugees … etc … etc … it has been documented and recorded for many decades.

” “Palestine will be Free”, didn’t work. “Palestinians will be Free and Equal”, could.”

What is the difference between the two? And what would be the name of the state for “Palestinians will be Free and Equal”?

That’s the one-state solution. Israel won’t accept it.

I’m just saying that if I reply in detail I could be accused of violating Section 2 of the MW Comments Policy.

I totally agree and identify with “I’m not anti-Zionist. I grew up in a Zionist home. It was self-evident to me that Israel was my place. I’m not opposed to the existence of the State of Israel.“
I consider myself  a post-Zionist. I think that Zionism was necessary, justified, even heroic. But, as Prof. Bartov says, it has become unrecognizable and dangerous. I would also add that  its organizations and bureaucracies have become obsolete. I would abolish organizations like the Jewish Agency and the JNF, which may have been useful in the past. Like constructing a building but leaving the scaffolding after it’s complete ( a metaphor I recall being used by the late Uri Avnery).

Adding to the challenge and complexity of American support for Israel.

Note 5:25 to 12:20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF-oeknQ-SU

“Iran posed no imminent threat” …”It’s Israel stupid”

Intelligence officers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvlj65bHlBY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ5boxXBUJQ

“It’s Israel stupid” Former CIA intelligence analyst Ray McGovern and Larry Johnson with Judge Napolitino

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQ5boxXBUJQ

“None of these are especially surprising, but Schumer is Senate Minority Leader and he has now been lapped on this issue by longtime Israel supporters, like Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar, and Elissa Slotkin, all of whom backed the Sanders effort.”

Booker, Klobuchar, Slotkin starting to feel safer in the anti Israel’s war crimes crowd that continues to grow.

Joining the “One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This” crowd

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJGJvNTjpR8

So deeply disturbing. We know Rachel Maddow, Joe Scarborough, Chris Hayes etc will not be reporting about this.

From the article which everyone should read and share, share, share.

“The study, “Sexual violence and forcible transfer in the West Bank”, details accounts of escalating sexualised attacks and humiliation of Palestinians in their communities and inside their homes since 2023.
Other forms of reported violence include urinating on Palestinians, taking and distributing humiliating photographs of bound and stripped individuals, stalking women who are using latrines, and threatening sexual violence against women. The case studies are anonymised because of the stigma surrounding sexual violence.
Sexualised attacks were hastening the displacement of Palestinians, according to the report. More than two-thirds of households surveyed identified rising violence against women and children, including sexual harassment targeting girls, as a tipping point in their decision to leave, the consortium said.
“Participants described sexualised harassment as the moment when fear shifted from chronic to unbearable. They spoke of watching women and girls endure humiliation and of calculating what might happen next,” the report said.
Israeli soldiers present during abuse had repeatedly failed to prevent it or prosecute those responsible. One woman was subjected to a painful internal search by two female soldiers who entered her home with settlers then ordered her to remove her clothes for a full body search.
“She described being instructed to open her legs in a way that caused pain, and she described derogatory comments and touching of intimate areas,” the report said.
Men and boys were also targets of sexual assault and harassment. Last month, Israeli settlers stripped 29-year old Qusai Abu al-Kebash, from the northern Jordan valley community of Khirbet Humsa, put a zip tie on his genitals and beat him in front of his community and international activists, witnesses said.

The students at Scarsdale High need to promote an event acknowledging the Nakba and see what happens. “Palestine Fest” event. Watch the hypocrisy go sky high.

Rahm Emmanuel trying to cut off the onslaught to cut all U.S. ties to the apartheid genocidal state of Israel. The Boycott Divest Sanction movement.

Rahm Emmanuel still pushing a Jewish, Democratic Israeli state.

He acts like he was some kind of early justice activist in this clip. Stating that he kept bringing up the violence perpetrated by Israeli land thieves (settlers) in 2009. Rahm “I did not need 20 years to get there.” As if he has been out on front lines calling for justice. What a scam artist.

https://www.c-span.org/program/public-affairs-event/rahm-emanuel-on-impact-of-us-politics-around-the-globe/677767

Dear Rahm Norman Finkelstein has been out on front lines of this issues since mid 80’s. Edward Said birthed the front lines in the 70’s. Vanessa Redgrave and many others out on front lines back then.

What took you so long Rahm. Your still making excuses for the apartheid, genocidal state of Israel.

https://www.c-span.org/program/public-affairs-event/rahm-emanuel-on-impact-of-us-politics-around-the-globe/677767

Israel Katz is a genocidal fascist. Along with his apartheid genocidal comrades Bibi, Ben Gvir, Gallant, Smotrich etc. They all need to be on trial for war crimes at the Hague. We can dream….and push.

https://www.facebook.com/trtworld/videos/we-are-waiting-for-a-green-light-from-the-united-states-and-in-addition-to-retur/2187008215383547/

Anyone in the states who has been paying attention to the P/I conflict for decades knows the I lobby and Christian Zionist have had the U.S. main stream media shut down. For decades never reporting about the facts on the ground in that conflict. The persistent violence, home and land theft by illegal Israeli land thieves. Little to nothing in the msm for decades. Then yes the heinous genocide Israel was conducting without restraint started breaking through the wall of silence on these serious issues.

Now once again silence in the U.S. msm about “Gaza”…West Bank. PBS doing some reporting.

Today MSNBC’s Morning Joe (who stayed silent for decades) addressed some of the ongoing horror. Again, Joe Scarborough was silent for decades. Could not find the segment. He actually went on and on about how Palestinians were killed in mass by Israel after Oct 7. How illegal “settlers” I call them land and home thieves have been stealing land and destroying homes for decades in West Bank. This is all new for a long term supporter of Israel Joe Scarborough.

On most msm outlets they have gone silent about Gaza. Most have never reported about the human rights crimes being committed against Palestinians by Israeli’s in the West Bank.

Max Blumenthal is so loaded up with facts can be overwhelming. I fact check much of what he claims.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qp3w4eYn2a8

Rahm Emmanuel acknowledging some of the horrific actions of illegal Israeli land thieves in West Bank in this commentary. Rahm still pushing that Israel can be “Jewish” and be called a “democracy.” Still does not get that Israel is already an apartheid, genocidal state.

https://www.c-span.org/program/public-affairs-event/rahm-emanuel-on-impact-of-us-politics-around-the-globe/677767

No, you don’t even assign the same abolitionist meaning to his words:

“Israelis, too, need to ditch Zionism.” and “It became something I don’t recognize. It became the ideology of the state. And it became not only militaristic and expansionist but also racist, extremely violent and ultimately an ideology that deeply harms both the individual and the collective. Such an ideology has no place.”

I’ve pointed out that those terms are just “legal-sounding” jargon, employed to obscure the blatant criminal conspiracy that Judge Young held the Trump Cabinet and Canary Mission perpetrated here in the USA. We do not use the same legal definitions for those words I placed in quotes in this jurisdiction. We have a Constitution that strictly prohibits religious tests, while your Basic Laws require them to create a two-tiered apartheid system of discriminatory laws. Your state doesn’t agree what those terms mean. See: The “Immigration Basic Law” bill originally sponsored by Simcha Rothman (Chairman of the Knesset Constitution, Law, and Justice Committee) was introduced in Israel — The Jerusalem Post

Prof. Bartov is literally quoting the language from Israel’s founding document that is indented to prevent that situation from happening. I’ve pointed out repeatedly that Ben-Guion advised the Peoples Council and World Agudat Yisrael those words could not be altered or removed, if they wanted a State. That is the Minority Rights Treaty Declaration the UN required the Jewish State accept, and submit, in order to terminate the LoN Mandate. It remains subject to a Compromissory Clause that does not allow Israel to alter the terms without General Assembly consent. Any dispute about its meaning must be resolved by the ICJ, not the Israeli courts.

Federal Laws Protect People from Unlawful Discrimination Based on Shared Ancestry.   Shared Ancestry or Ethnic Characteristics Discrimination | HHS.gov

In 1962 the Oswald Rufeisen case (“Brother Daniel”) was the landmark Israeli Supreme Court case ruling that a “Jewish person” who converts to Catholicism cannot be considered a “Jew” under “the Law of Return”. See every post I’ve ever made about the recent DNA proof of common ancestry shared by Syrian, Lebanese, Palestinians, Jordanians, Israelis, and the fact “Jew”, “Judaism”, “Law of Return”, and “Antisemitism” have no agreed upon common legal definition;

A 2013 ruling regarding Ornan v. Ministry of the Interior (and related cases), the Israeli Supreme Court rejected a petition to recognize an “Israeli nationality”, ruling that it does not exist separately from “the Jewish people”.

That’s not how “nationality” is defined in US law. When the Civil Rights Act was being drafted, Rabbi Berger insured the US State Department does not apply foreign religious tests or accept “the Jewish people” concept as part of international law either. Full Stop.

“Sorry, I can’t comment on the creation of the Palestinian refugee issue.”

Are you trying to say that it didn’t happen? … at gunpoint? The destroyed villages and the thousands of killed/murdered Palestinians?

This is a very depressing interview.
I know one thing. Joe Biden needs to go on trial for war crimes with Donald John Trump and Bibi Netanyahu – and countless others.

Re: Sorry, I can’t comment on the creation of the Palestinian refugee issue.

No, you violate comment policy on a daily basis. Everything anyone needs to know on the subject has already been posted in replies to your comments here at MW. The truth is you’d rather not discuss the mountains of evidence that have been published by Israeli perpetrators themselves (like Ben-Gurion, and Sharett) The Zionist Archives, The New Historians, and third-party scholars on the subject. We’ve always provided the links for you, but you always falsely claim antisemitism, and return to same prevarication, and old propaganda talking points, 

“Any Means Necessary”, “Palestine will be Free”, didn’t work. “Palestinians will be Free and Equal”, could.

A further illustration of what the Israeli version of Judaism has become:

Police in Israel detain Jewish man for kippah showing Israeli, Palestinian flags | CNN

“Israeli police detained a Jewish man on Monday for wearing a kippah embroidered with an Israeli and a Palestinian flag — then cut up the religious head covering, he says — in a rare case that has drawn national attention.Alex Sinclair, a 53-year-old author and adjunct lecturer at the Hebrew University, told CNN that police approached him while he was sitting at a cafe in his hometown of Modiin about 22 miles southeast of Tel Aviv. Within minutes, he said, he was taken to a local police station, searched and detained.”

The only democracy on the middle east. WTF?

I believe future historians will see this moment in the evolution of Judaism as akin to the other major religious schisms – the Sunni/Shia split, the Protestant/Catholic split, etc. What we are seeing the split between the 800 B.C. version of Judaism – basically Jews with atom bombs going after the Amalekites – and a more humanistic version of the religion, grounded in the values of empathy and universal human rights.

So you still think the word ‘genocide’ is inaccurate? One of the surprising things I’ve learned from Omer Bartov’s new book “Israel: What Went Wrong” is that many people I thought would never be caught in the same room with the word have actually flirted with it. Benny Morris, for example – his attitude towards seems to be ‘if you want to make an omelette you have to break some eggs’; too bad for the unfortunate things that befell the Palestinians, but it was all worth it to create a ‘Jewish State’. From page 194, emphasis mine:

By late January 2025, even the historian Benny Morris, who’d developed strongly right-wing views after writing the definitive study of the Nakba, came out with an opinion essay in Haaretz stating unambiguously that ‘genocide may be in the offing’. Though he denied that genocide had already taken place, he warned that ‘Israel may be on the way there, already deep in the loop that leads to mass murder, shaping the hearts and minds of the public.’…Morris bluntly noted that ‘the Jewish public appears largely indifferent to the mass killing in Gaza, including of women and children.

The question becomes: can Israel reject Zionist ideology before it destroys their homeland?

Yes we know what will not work – every single damn thing the Palestinians, the Arab nations, the UN and good people all over the world have tried over the last eighty years.

I basically agree with what Prof. Bartov says here.

Here is a long interview with the author (gift article and a few snippets): ‘Zionism Led to Genocide. It Must Disappear’: Omer Bartov’s New Book Explores Where, Exactly, Israel Went Wrong – Haaretz Jewish World

In an interview with Haaretz ahead of the release of ‘Israel: What Went Wrong,’ renowned genocide studies scholar Omer Bartov talks about trading letters with Yitzhak Rabin as a young soldier, what’s wrong with Holocaust-Hamas comparisons and why he thinks Israelis, too, need to ditch Zionism

“I’m not anti-Zionist. I grew up in a Zionist home. It was self-evident to me that Israel was my place. I’m not opposed to the existence of the State of Israel. But Zionism as an ideology didn’t just run its course. It became something I don’t recognize. It became the ideology of the state. And it became not only militaristic and expansionist but also racist, extremely violent and ultimately an ideology that deeply harms both the individual and the collective. Such an ideology has no place.

And the ghouls in the WH and Congress have the gall to lecture the world about the evils of other governments! The horrors being imposed on principled human rights advocates such as this courageous woman—and the thousands being abused in these facilities—would not have been possible except for the complicity of the Democratic Party establishment.

One should never forget the refusal to allow a Palestinian scholar a mere five minutes to speak at the “Democratic” Party convention, at which a weak and ineffectual Gaza genocide denier Kamala Harris was anointed. It’s almost like they wanted to lose the election to saddle the alleged child rapist with the catastrophes of Ukraine and Gaza.

Sorry, I can’t comment on the creation of the Palestinian refugee issue. I could be accused of violating section 2 of the Comments Policy and banned from MW.

Here’s a list of words and terms Hostage placed in quotation marks: Jews (3 times), converts, right of return, return, equal rights, Judean,  historic homeland, us here them there , historical homeland.

As I understand it the implication of quotation marks is : not really. Jews are not really Jews, converts are not really converts, return is not really return, equal rights are not really equal rights, Judean is not really Judean…and so forth.

And when did I claim (artlessly!) that “Jews” and select religious “converts” (who never owned land, property, or previously lived in Palestine themselves) had the metaphysical “right of return”?

Re: Counter-argument to Hostage’s incoherent diatribe?

No diatribe and nothing incoherent about the fact that Israel and the USA are escalating an armed conflict and creating several illegal situations that could easily result in a nuclear catastrophe:

*Lawmakers in Iran are considering withdrawal from the NPT due to attacks on their nuclear facilities.

*Every country in the region—except Israel—is a party to the NPT (Non-Proliferation Treaty) and supported creating a Weapons of Mass Destruction Free Zone (WMDFZ). The Arab League states and Iran are the main proponents, with the UN facilitating ongoing negotiations.

*The Security Council called upon Israel to place its nuclear facilities under the NPT and IAEA Inspection after it condemned the premeditated attack on Iraq’s Osirak nuclear reactor. The Council noted that every state has the right to nuclear programs and reactors. There are no treaty limits on enrichment programs conducted by NPT states. Israel subsequently destroyed a Syrian nuclear reactor site.

*The ICJ refused to hear Marshall Islands case to enforce the NPT against violations by states that actually possess nuclear weapons, China, Democratic People’s Republic of Korea, France, India, Israel, Pakistan, Russian Federation, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and United States of America,

*Russia, the United States, and Israel have normalized military attacks on nuclear reactor and enrichment facilities in Ukraine and Iran.

*Iran launched ballistic missile strikes that targeted areas near the southern Israeli city of Dimona, which houses the Shimon Peres Negev Nuclear Research Center.

*The Jerusalem Post noted a “number of countries” are ready to supply Iran with nuclear warheads following American strikes on nuclear facilities, Deputy Chairman of the Security Council of the Russian Federation, Dmitriy Medvedev claimed on social media.

I’ve started reading the book. Bartov is scathing about Israel’s trajectory: “One can say that Israel was a full democracy for only six months, between December 1966, when the military rule imposed on the Palestinian citizens of the state after the war of 1948 was lifted, and June 1967, when Israel came to occupy territories to which many of the Palestinians expelled in 1948 had fled, most importantly the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. (p.18)

What was the school administration thinking? They were celebrating the establishment of a foreign power, when its government ministers are fugitives from justice, wanted for extermination, persecution, and murdering tens of thousands of children. Many of them while they were attending or taking shelter in their own destroyed public schools.

So, please define what is meant by antisemitism here? It sounds more likely that public school administrators are guilty of that in this instance, and acting beyond their powers once again. Rep. Jamie Raskin noted “The IHRA ‘definition’ literally does not define antisemitism, and is unconstitutionally vague for legal enforcement, particularly regarding First Amendment and due process rights.

The publication of the Israeli War Plan Dalet (March 10, 1948) was proof that Israel was established through a premeditated war of aggression, state-sponsored terror, massacres, and forced deportation of hundreds of thousands of “Semitic” Palestinian citizens for simply exercising the right of self-defense inside their own homes:

Mounting search and control operations according to the following guidelines: encirclement of the village and conducting a search inside it. In the event of resistance, the. armed force must be destroyed and the population must be expelled outside the borders of the state.

Israel has been illegally blockading the coasts of another UN Observer State ever since 2007. It has literally been murdering families carrying white flags and starving Palestinians. FYI, as of August 2024, approximately 564 schools, or about 85% of all school buildings in the Gaza Strip, have been hit, damaged, or destroyed by Israeli government state sponsored attacks. Of these, roughly 95% were being used as shelters for displaced people—including students and families—at the time they were hit. The Scarsdale administrator sounds pretty damned antisemitic to me. See: EDUCATION UNDER ATTACK: Restoring learning for children in Gaza – UNRWA, Wikipedia

Our own State Department advised that the creation of a racist, theocratic, Jewish state in Palestine would make the illegal situation permanent and require our own government to violate the Constitutional rights of our own citizens here in the USA. 

U.S. District Judge William G. Young found top Trump administration officials were engaging in what he termed an “unconstitutional conspiracy” to target pro-Palestinian student activists for protected speech.

I have been following the Scarsdale tempest in a teapot ( or urinal) on the local TV news and it is ludicrous. Not a single thing on TV citing anything about the flyer depicting the WB as part of Israel. Nobody is asking why the school allowed a flyer to endorse apartheid, because that is what this was, or else the people who made the flyer were too ignorant to understand the implications of the map. The principal understands, but he thinks it is okay to put flyers in school property that advocate for annexing the WB. Apparently there are no Palestinians with relatives in the WB ( let alone Gaza) in his school or if there are, he doesn’t care.

Instead, there has been a lot of hysteria and pontification about antisemitism and hate and of course not a word about the intentions behind that map. I could believe that someone who put a map of Israel in a urinal might be motivated by antisemitism, but it seems more likely they have some knowledge of Israel’s human rights record and know exactly what that map with its WB inclusion represents and it isn’t peace and harmony and rainbows and puppy dogs.

As a compromise, though, the school should have a Palestine festival. They can use exactly the same map.

No, you childishly accuse others of racism, but most here simply respect the law of non-recognition of territory acquired by force. There is nothing wrong with demanding abolition or dismantlement of illegally acquired governing regimes.

Acquiring territory through threat, force, or usurping sovereignty during a military occupation is illegal under modern international law. It contradicts the UN Charter, specifically Article 2(4), and constitutes a war crime, distinguishing temporary occupation from illegal annexation.

You artlessly claim “Jews” and select religious “converts” (who never owned land, property, or previously lived in Palestine themselves) had the metaphysical “right of return”. But that right doesn’t include “return” for “Jews” with the very same ancestors, if they happen to be Muslim or Christian immigrants. Why don’t they enjoy the same “equal rights” to the same “Judean”, “historic homeland”?

In actual practice that was usurpation of sovereignty during an illegal invasion and occupation by the British, non-indigenous “Jews”, and Gentiles who only have an imaginary, metaphysical connection to Judaism. “Us here, them there” always was magical thinking and a legal myth, There were always other religions in that “historical homeland”. See: Ancient Idolatry at the Israel Museum

Your colonial project takes up space anywhere in areas pillaged from the families and estates of indigenous Palestinians. Then the victims are either massacred, or ejected by armed force and denied the right to vote, to residency, return or compensation for their stolen domiciles, state property, and archives. That’s not any form of legal equality. That’s just a joint criminal enterprise, apartheid, and persecution.

An addition to Odds & Ends: the Guardian has just reviewed Omer Bartov’s new book “Israel: What Went Wrong?“. The entire review is worth reading but here I’m selectively quoting:

 The book, which was published on Tuesday, is a detailed account of how Israel was transformed from a hopeful nation that in its founding document promised “complete equality of social and political rights to all its citizens irrespective of religion, race or sex” into one intent on what he bluntly terms “settler colonialism and ethno-nationalism”…..The problem arose, from his perspective, after Israel declared its independence in 1948. “When the state decides that it’s not going to be a normal state, it’s not going to have a constitution, it’s not going to define its borders, it’s not going to try and have a normal relationship with its own Palestinian citizens, it’s not going to at least try and make a gesture of compensation and reconciliation with the people that it evicted – when it does that, then its nature changes,” he said….Additionally, the charge of antisemitism has grown hollow, Bartov said, due to its flagrant “weaponization” as “a tool to shut people up” as the state wreaks destruction on its neighbors. “Having claimed to be the definitive answer to antisemitism,” he writes in What Went Wrong?, “Israel is now the best excuse for antisemites everywhere, a nation whose addiction to violence and oppression, reliance on great powers and financial clout, and constant harping on the horrors of the Holocaust as an excuse for untethered violence against Palestinians are making even some of its erstwhile supporters shrink from it in discomfort, or horror and disgust.”

What went wrong in Israel? A genocide scholar examines ‘what Zionism became’ | Israel | The Guardian

Representative Latimer appears to be a coward. Maybe he needs to be replaced by someone with the courage to meet the voters who elected him.

I asked ChatGPT about HolyCow’s claim.

.

Has any Israeli official called The State of Israel The State of the Jews…

I presume some Israeli official has made that claim, but within the context of this thread I did not.

Just another invention from Livvy, just another lie.

“You can buy what you want, but you have to abide by the laws”…“Because a system built on denying another people freedom and self-determination is not just deeply immoral – it also doesn’t produce security,”
_________________________________________________________________

Is this glass half empty, or half full? A roadblock or an open door?

“It is a mistaken view that the population has not tried every possible approach.”
__________________________________________________

Who knew, but, times change. Opportunities come and go. We know what will not work. We know what might.

“American governments are not rational; they are hubristic and, in general, driven more by greed, power, and ideology.”
Yes, let’s not forget that this didn’t start with Trump.

I remember someone, I forget who, saying that the Iranian government’s aims were: Death to America, which they cannot do; Death to Israel, which they cannot do; and Keep the women veiled, which they can do, so that’s what they do.

Iran’s government is horrible to its own people, but no threat to America. It is a threat to Israel’s position as sole regional hegemon, not to Israel’s existence. Let’s not forget that Israel has nuclear weapons.

This report is shocking. Zionists in the diaspora would probably never be tempted, but Israeli Jews, who have been shafted by their own government, yes.

“Iran is planting in soil that has already been made fertile.” Indeed.
Many years ago a man rose in Quaker meeting and said, “We don’t need leaders!” What he meant, I think, was, We don’t need the officially designated leaders, because when there is a need for leadership someone will step up.
He was wrong. We are a herd species. We do need leaders. If we don’t have good ones we will follow bad ones. If the leaders are corrupt, as they are in Israel, that corruption makes its way through the whole population.

That might also explain why some shmocks are trying to reset my password on a daily basis. ROFL. One of their IPs is interesting: Hicksville. Is Hickswille a Zionist shmock base?

jrg: “Everyone here knows what Israel and other countries of the MIddle East are.”

An attempt to avoid te issue. What are Israel legal borders?

“All of these polemical accusation are irrelevant.”

A cheap attempt to avoid the issues.

“Here you reveal yourself as another anti-Semitic Jew, a type which seems to populate this space rather considerably.”

An ever cheaper attempt to avoid the issue.

I might add that some Zionist commenter on MW seems to reduce these crimes to “Jews, just being in their historical homeland.”

jon s: “Let me remind you that I’m one of the commenters around here who advocates equal rights and peaceful co-existence and social justice and opposes fascism and racism in all its forms.”

Let me remind you that your euphemisms mean that you deny Palestinians the right to return to the place they were expelled from and support a “Jewish state” instead a state for all of its citizens despite their faith and heritage aka Apartheid.

“And yes, we’re a people living in our historic homeland.”

Yes let me summarize again what you euphemistically call “living”:
The uniformed terrorists of the “Jewish state” are ordered to protect its terrorist in civilian clothes attacking Palestinian civilians and their property.
Thats all you need to know about the inherent nature of real existing Zionism. No denial, no distraction, no justification, just pure terrorism, since 1948.
Now continue to whine about having it tough while living in a city that expelled 95% of population and murdered everyone – including woman and children – who didn’t leave and simply because they were not Jewish.

And I don’t know for how many Jewish individuals you can speak. When did their ancestors convert to Judaism, and where? And what does that have to do with the right to live there when they entered Palestine under British or Israeli occupation as colonizers.

Sure, Jews welcome and enjoy (!) mass atrocities perpetrated against them.
And our enemies are sef-created…

Counter-argument to Hostage’s incoherent diatribe?
I did respond to Thomas E. Let me remind you that I’m one of the commenters around here who advocates equal rights and peaceful co-existence and social justice and opposes fascism and racism in all its forms.

DESTROYED PALESTINIAN VILLAGES

“To create the State of Israel, Zionist forces attacked major Palestinian cities and destroyed some 530 villages. Approximately 13,000 Palestinians were killed in 1948, with more than 750,000 expelled from their homes and becoming refugees – the climax of the Zionist movement’s ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Today, the refugees and their descendants number more than seven million. Many still languish in refugee camps in neighbouring Arab countries, waiting to return to their homeland.”

https://remix.aljazeera.com/aje/PalestineRemix/maps-and-data-visualisations.html

“…23 villages, three of which are currently depopulated and 19 that were completely erased.”

19+3=22. Are you saying that there’s one village still intact? that was overlooked? Any more information on that ? (name and location)

Let me remind you that I’m one of the commenters around here who advocates equal rights and peaceful co-existence and social justice and opposes fascism and racism in all its forms.
And yes, we’re a people living in our historic homeland.

For Jewish supremacists, mass atrocities against their self-created enemies are not just necessary but welcome and enjoyable. We have to bring an end to Jewish supremacism.

And that’s your response? It is no wonder you have long since lost the argument around the world.

Yet oddly, you provide no counter-argument.

An interesting and revealing report. Jewish Israelis are trained from early childhood to freeze their own moral consciences, to ignore the internal voices that create empathy for others – a process proclaimed as necessary for Jewish survival against supposedly evil, savage Arabs. Now we see one result of that horrific process, in which Jews no longer give a damn about Israel either, only about their own financial aggrandisement. It could, we can only hope, accelerate the break-up of Israel.

Re: For some reason Palestinian citizens have yet to campaign against Apartheid or for more civil rights. Had they done so during our civil rights period or South Africa’s, perhaps that could have made a difference.

You should know that Palestine (PLO), was admitted as a UN National Liberation Movement Observer shortly before South Africa (ANC), and two years before Namibia (SWAPO). The reason is Zionism, martial law, military courts and censorship, combined and flagrant, criminal racism. It is a mistaken view that the population has not tried every possible approach.

The citizens of Palestine actually did all those things you suggested, and you’ve just failed to read their testimony and petitions submitted to King-Crane Commission, and many other US, UK, LoN, and UN Commissions. Read “The Arab Awakening” (1938) by George Antonius. There is also The League of Nations Journal or Permanent Mandate Commission Reports. The debate on ethnic cleansing and population transfer of Palestinians to Lebanon and Syria recorded in Volume II, Section A of the Final Record of the Diplomatic Conference of Geneva of 1949 that resulted in the codification of the prohibition of colonization and population transfer into occupied territory. The Palestine High Court of Justice land transfer cases in the International Law Reports and Palestine Yearbooks, the British appointments and denial of Palestinian elections and refusal to accept Syrian-Palestinian Congress results, the LoN decisions that air raids and artillery bombardment were not “tutelage” (Lloyd George, Montgomery, and Wingate: infamously “reserved the right to bomb niggers”), the uprisings, armed revolts, Eisenhower telling Israel to withdraw from Gaza during the 1956 Suez invasion and occupation, historical and law journal articles by the Henry Cattan, that led to works by Richard Falk, and Yoram Dinstein. Senator James G. Abourezk held hearings on the colonization of the West Bank in October 1977. After that W. Thomas and Sally Mallison, John Quigley, and hundreds of others wrote books and articles on the grave breaches of criminal law. The UNISPAL (United Nations Information System on the Question of Palestine) is the world’s largest online repository of documents relating to the Israeli-Palestinian armed conflict and the grassroots demands of Palestinians to stop the illegal aggression, curfews, road closures, checkpoints, blockade, piracy, and pillage.

We are currently living in the 21st century. The majority of my posts already contain links to third-party verifiable articles written by acknowledged experts and specialists with insights on ancient near eastern mythology, political science, philosophy, philology, history, numismatics, archeology, religion, genetics, international and constitutional law, & etc. I always make a point of offering critiques of your comments. They don’t usually exhibit any keen insights. So, I doubt you’d bother to listen to anything the 27th century would have to offer.

Uh …uh … I confess, I haven’t given it much thought! Its possible that it may flip the Merkava on its side or upside down “making Israelis afraid“!

The USA and Israel are the only parties that refuse to accept the proposal for a Nuclear-Free Middle East.

FYI, life imitates art I was simply making light of the similarities between the two absurdly out-of-control, mean-spirited, racist nuclear super powers, led by Fascists, Neo-Nazis, Dimwits, and Psychopaths, that keep humanity on the brink of a real Doomsday – and the satirical plot line, stereotypes, and caricatures portrayed in Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb. Try to get a grip. If it is “too close for comfort” or “get’s under your skin”, that was, and still is, the point Stanley Kubrick was trying to make.

My point, as usual, is that our societies have to bring an end to criminal impunity for mass atrocities first. Brent can otherwise forget about co-existence.

Focus on one thing, Jon S.

The uniformed terrorists of the “Jewish state” are ordered to protect its terrorist in civilian clothes attacking Palestinian civilians and their property.

Thats all you need to know about the inherent nature of real existing Zionism. No denial, no distraction, no justification, just pure terrorism, since 1948.

Now continue to whine about having it tough while living in a city that expelled 95% of population and murdered everyone – including woman and children – who didn’t leave and simply because they were not Jewish. Not to mention the discrict ofh the same name. Today, it includes 23 villages, three of which are currently depopulated and 19 that were completely erased.

Or as you would call it: We are just Jews being in our historical homeland.

Maybe if his brain is preserved in formaldehyde, the scientists of the 27th century could offer us some insights about it.

Hostage: “Why has the IDF not prioritized restoring the displaced Lebanese to their communities first”

Because they like to make the places as non-Jew-rein as possible when they are stealing their land.

750.000 non-Jews in 1948
274.000 internally displaced non-Jews in Israel (who are not permitted to live in the homes they formerly lived in, even if they were in the same area as their home, the property still exists, and they can show that they own it.)
300.000 non-Jews in 1967
250.000 non-Jews revoked residency rights since 1967
2 Million non-Jews in Gaza
1.2 Million non-Jews in Lebanon

The most moral army in the world …

“ race defined largely by Palestine and questions about what truly constitutes progressive domestic and foreign policy…. he noted his history of organizing against apartheid in South Africa and the connections he made between that struggle, the Palestinian liberation struggle, and the larger struggles Black Americans were facing…”
__________________________________________________

Evidence for political advantage when equality is the issue.

I asked the following question.

Has any Israeli official called The State of Israel The State of the Jews (Der Judenstaat, Herzl’s name for his planned state)?

Chuck Summer: “The Torah says it’s our [Jews] land. “

That claim is misleading in multiple ways. The Torah does not say the land “belongs to Jews” in a modern ethnic or legal sense. It refers to ancient Israelites in a theological covenant with God, not to “Jews” as a later religious and historical identity or to any modern concept of state ownership. Converting that ancient religious narrative into a contemporary political property claim collapses historical, linguistic, and conceptual differences that the text itself does not make.

Well, we are dealing with the most “moral” army in the world:

Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank, report says
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/apr/21/israeli-soldiers-using-sexual-assault-to-force-palestinians-out-of-west-bank-report-says

Just another crime against humanity.

(Don’t read it if you can’t handle it.)

HolyCow: “No need …”

Why not? Because it highlights more of the bigotry you accuse others of?

“but you could try answering the question you are squirming to avoid.”

Like you are “you are squirming to avoid” answerig “Like you saying: ““peaceful co-existence“, nothing exists that would satisfy the Palestinians.”?

“Do you think it is correct for people to blame Jews in general for what Israel is doing?”

That’s a bigoted question. Blaming any entire group for the actions of a state or leadership is wrong, no matter who the group is.

Having said that I’m also not conflating Israel with “the Jews” as Zionists do, when they call critics of Israel “antisemites”.

brent: “Not that things were acceptable, but substantial Apartheid …”

Began in 1948 with Palestinians living under the same military law in Israel as the ones after 1967 in the territories occupied by Israel beyond the green line.

HolyCow, Are members of JDL613 GA Chapter bunking at your house, enjoying your murky pool?

‘Rise up early and kill him first’
JDL 613 presents itself as a continuation of the Jewish Defense League (JDL), which was designated as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center and described as a “violent extremist Jewish organization” by the FBI in 2000.

+ Guardian JDL613 Ga Chapter
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/09/jdl-613-jewish-extremist-organization

“In a November podcast, it claimed to have additional chapters in Georgia and Colorado”

+ Guardian: Why was the Southern Poverty Law Center indicted on federal fraud charges? 4/21/26. (Patel bombed out)

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/apr/21/splc-fraud-charges-explained

 “It’s a good thing for America if neither Iran nor Kash Patel are getting bombed,” John Kerry quipped to Stephen Colbert

I asked ChatGPT about HolyCow’s claim. 

Not that I care about ChatGPT, or why you need to rely on that – but it’s pretty obvious you did not ask about anything I supposedly “claimed”.

I’ve become used to Hostage’s Anti-Jewish propaganda , but this time he’s descended into deranged incoherence.

Have you any idea of the serious damage a well-aimed stone can do to a Merkava?