100 Most Recent Comments


RoHa
RoHa on August 19, 2019, 8:51 am

“Judeo-Christian” seems to be a neologism. I don’t recall hearing or seeing it when I was young.

RoHa
RoHa on August 19, 2019, 8:49 am

“Abrahamic” refers to a group of religions. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Baha’i are the main ones.

Rashers2
Rashers2 on August 19, 2019, 8:34 am

“PBS ‘News Hour’ allows Congressman to vilify BDS campaign as aimed at Jewish genocide, just like Hitler” – so many things likened to ‘Nazism’ and ‘Hitler’ – and yet the likening of Israeli policies and actions to European Fascism is streng verboten under the ridiculous and fatally-flawed IHRA anti-Semitism definition (with examples) that every political organisation seems now to be falling over itself to adopt. Not that it’s directly related to the anti-BDS campaign but, today, I came across this:
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/08/israeli-political-party-declares-lgbtq-people-nazis-palestinian-suicide-bombers/?utm_source=LGBTQ+Nation+Subscribers&utm_campaign=f87151dc45-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_08_16_04_20&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c4eab596bd-f87151dc45-429809189 My scepticism of Israeli ‘pinkwashing’ (already on record) is not the point: the point is that it’s fine for the other side to use Nazi analogies ad nauseam, in the most ludicrous of contexts and to the extent of their utter devaluation and debasement; but not for critics of Zionism – sorry, ‘anti-Semites’ – to do so, even when the parallel may by any objective standard be inescapable.

Sibiriak
Sibiriak on August 19, 2019, 8:32 am

John O: So, until governments place sanctions on Israel, bringing that is still a goal.
———————————————–

That’s fine, but the point is sanctions are not an end in themselves; they are a means to an end or various ends (goals). The official BDS movement has adopted three goals which it is hoped sanctions will help attain. It’s yet to be seen to what extent Americans are embracing those specific goals, and embracing sanctions as a means to achieve them.

John O
John O on August 19, 2019, 8:08 am

It also ignores the contribution of Ancient Greek philosophical thought to the way we view things today.

John O
John O on August 19, 2019, 7:35 am

To my way of thinking, boycotts operate at the individual level (I can stop buying goods from country X); disinvestment at the local/commercial level (my local government authority or pension fund can sell their shares in arms companies); sanctions operate at national government level. So, until governments place sanctions on Israel, bringing that is still a goal.

eljay
eljay on August 19, 2019, 6:20 am

If Israel becomes a partisan issue in the United States, advocates warn that … Israel’s security would be severely undermined without the political, economic and military support that flows from bipartisan backing in Washington. …

Yeah, it’s funny how political, economic and military support can make or break a state. And yet Zionists – who routinely insist that Israel don’t need nuthin’ from nobody nohow to survive a Thousand Years! (or maybe even forever) – never advocate taking all the “unshakeable” political, economic and military support that American unnecessarily gives to Israel and giving it instead to the Palestinians to help them build a healthy and robust state of Palestine. Go figure.

echinococcus
echinococcus on August 19, 2019, 6:18 am

“Many liberal Zionists and progressive Democrats have opposed the occupation, with nothing to show for their efforts”

Wrong: they are getting a substantial reward.

The “liberal” Zionists, their second fiddles the tribal “non-Zionists” and the “progressive”(!) Democrats, by opposing the post-1967 occupation* get to firmly entrench in the mind of even the anti-Zionist public an acceptance of the rape of Palestine, some absurd fiction of legitimate invader presence on Palestinian soil and a vague belief that these Zionist invaders belong there. That’s their only hope to keep their abomination going in the teeth of decolonization.

The Yahoos, open genocidaires and religious-assassin crazies are preferable: their frankness is our best support in informing the US and European public.

[*: slyly re-christened “THE occupation” tout court, when in reality it’s only an afterthought of the real occupation of 1947 – 1948!]

echinococcus
echinococcus on August 19, 2019, 5:58 am

“Despite Israel’s apologists’ efforts to blame Donald Trump for the move (Bari Weiss, MSNBC, the New York Times), a lot of Americans are blaming the country that won’t let our congresspeople in even though we give it more foreign aid than any other country, $3.8 billion a year.”

Warped logic here.
“the country that won’t let our congresspeople” past the illegal border of a pirate colony
is the same country these congresspeople serve in its parliament: the US Zionist Empire, owned, together with the Zionist entity, by the same people, who constitute the real Zionist leadership (not based in Jerusalem or any other spot in Palestine –they aren’t that stupid!)
If our last four or five wars (and quasi-wars) of aggression have not made that blindingly obvious, we should be called cognitively impaired.

eljay
eljay on August 19, 2019, 5:57 am

|| RoHa: I’m not convinced that Zionists have any desire to be moral, or even that they understand morality. They certainly seem incapable of even attempting an argument for Zionism that is based on normal moral principles. ||

“Hmm…touché!”

DaBakr
DaBakr on August 19, 2019, 5:10 am

Oh Jeezus h. Roosevelt christ! The whole trip by Omar and tlaib was set up to be a propaganda win the whole time. And the Israelis were just as complicit. It couldnt end in a stalemate with tlaib visiting her softa with ‘benevolent’ Israeli permission any more then Israel wasnt letting the two travel unescorted while pushing BDS. I have no idea if anybody scored ANY points in this whole incident.

gamal
gamal on August 19, 2019, 5:03 am

“silently reciting the 99 names of Allah. . ”

That has got to be one of the funniest lazy internet search transcriptions, 99 beads often divided into 3rds, with two little flat things I wonder if that’s significant, I’ve never known anyone to use them to recite the names, you could of course you can count whatever you want but it is not what people generally do and I very much doubt that that is what this lady is doing, perhaps it was too risky to beard a Muslim and ask them, dodgy fuckers that they are or perhaps they don’t know any, why would you.

Isn’t Allah a moon god? blood soaked fiend that it is, just read the Koran or the Ahadith…etc ad infinitum

DaBakr
DaBakr on August 19, 2019, 5:01 am

@jn

Um… A little hysterical nit picking, no? (I have silver prayer beads from a lebanese friend whose mother prayed to Allah using them along with a beautiful engraved small tray with the name of allah intricately carved.
But then you have obviously succumbed to the brainwashing Edward Said perpetrated on so many far left socalled progressives in western academia in his seminal but highly flawed manifest Orientalism long ago.

I don’t think I’ve met anybody (with a basic education at least) who doesn’t know muslims believe in one g-d and his name (among many others) is Allah

DaBakr
DaBakr on August 19, 2019, 4:49 am

@msr

“…….. hiding under the label of progressive jew.”.

Omg. Again, we agree. WTF? Is the world coming to an end?

DaBakr
DaBakr on August 19, 2019, 4:44 am

@og

Said like somebody who obvious never experienced Israeli democracy and writes from blind ignorance

DaBakr
DaBakr on August 19, 2019, 4:42 am

@og

That you blame Israel for Assads slaughter of his own citizens and Palestinians in Syrian refuge camps is absurd. Even if you hate Israel or zionism that the status quo existing under Assad before the Civil War he helped create at the northern border would be something Israel “created” is totally absurd. Dealing in reality as a pragmatic, Israel had to deal with the situation that existed during and now after the war. That you would expect Israel to not take actions responding to the shifting border situation is you just showing your blind hatred and lack of logic when it comes to your obsession with israel and zionism

Talkback
Talkback on August 19, 2019, 3:50 am

Mayhem: “Israeli Interior Minister Aryeh Deri, who had approved Ms Tlaib’s visit request, blasted her decision not to come .”

Of course. Israel hates Nonjews and especially Palestinian Nonjews who reject being humiliated and subjugated to the oppressive conditions of the only Jewish Apartheid state in the milky way. How dare she not accept the usurper’s graceful offer allowing her to visit her grandmother on “humantiarian grounds”. The fact that this is the only possibility tells you everything you need to know about this inhumane racist entity.

Imagine Germany would allow Jews to visit their ancestors only on “humanitarian grounds” and then picture tis scene in black and white.

Peter in SF
Peter in SF on August 19, 2019, 3:36 am

I don’t keep any gate. I had been looking for some pundit with some audience who was finally going to say that Trump’s tweet might have been Netanyahu’s idea. It wouldn’t occur to most Americans to think that the Israeli PM or his ambassador in Washington might have “requested” Trump to make a tweet like this, but here we’ve got “Jewish Insider” saying that that might have been a real possibility, and talking as if there’s nothing surprising about it. It reminds me of the time I went to see Rob Malley speak in SF last year, and his Q&A with audience members simply assumed (on both sides) that U.S. policy towards Israel is controlled by wealthy Jews. I wrote about that here:
https://mondoweiss.net/2018/05/adelsons-influence-scrapping/

DaBakr
DaBakr on August 19, 2019, 3:15 am

@tb

Now is just foolishness. Every citizen is entitled to an Israeli passport

Emet
Emet on August 19, 2019, 2:48 am

Did the US media tell you that Tlaib has not seen her grandmother since 2006? Suddenly it’s so urgent . Apparently the grandmother had very little to do with the trip anyway. It’s like saying “Whilst in NY, I might as well see the Statue of Liberty.”

Jackdaw
Jackdaw on August 19, 2019, 2:48 am

Oh….you again?

“No genius. I would be his younger brother, and the younger brother is not an agent for Israel.”

“I know all those Arab names can be a little confusing, but try reading a little more carefully.”

Remember this from last week?

JV squad.

RoHa
RoHa on August 19, 2019, 1:27 am

‘“Judeo-Christian” usually applies to “values”, although I have never found what they are…..’

As far as I can make out, they are whatever we thought was a good idea at the time.

RoHa
RoHa on August 19, 2019, 1:20 am

I’m inclined to agree that the Palestinians should get a good PR firm to press the human rights story along with BDS.

I don’t think that these necessarily preclude other types of action, and, while I certainly would not consider the USA as an example, I think that the people of the US could be persuaded to press their rulers to reduce support for Israel.

RoHa
RoHa on August 19, 2019, 1:06 am

What the devil does “leveraging” mean?

oldgeezer
oldgeezer on August 18, 2019, 10:52 pm

@wdr
“- whereas the Jews have had what is now Israel as their central connection for 3000 years”

Blood and soil wdr?

No Jews have not had a physical connection to what is now Israel. An emotional one perhaps. Not for me to judge.

” How can she near to live for even 24 more hours in property she stole from someone else? ”

hey good question. Ask zionists that and let me know the answer will you?

oldgeezer
oldgeezer on August 18, 2019, 10:44 pm

Without the time and energy to address the larger issues I often wonder how brain dead and devoid of humanity of you have to be when you’re in competition with North Korea for the worst of the worst and at the same time trying to pretend you are a beacon of light or a democracy.

I don’t want to beat around the bush about my opinions but Israel is not remotely a democracy. Even the CCCP had votes and elections. It’s irrelevant.

oldgeezer
oldgeezer on August 18, 2019, 10:36 pm

@dohbaker
“The Palestinians in Syria didn’t fare too well with Assad and his troops as they neither fare too well in lebanese refugee camps. And that’s just for starters @snmst”

Quite true. You just left out that they suffered so much because their camps were attacked and taken over by western and Israeli, yes Israeli, backed AQ/ISIS.

While there is no shortage of blood on Assad’s hands this one is on Israel and the west.

johneill
johneill on August 18, 2019, 10:15 pm

rather than address the own-goal either elicited from netanyahu or directed by trump, you want to focus on the choice of name for a single publisher of a single quote? really arbitrary gatekeeping.

eljay
eljay on August 18, 2019, 9:27 pm

|| Mayhem: Israeli Interior Minister Aryeh Deri, who had approved Ms Tlaib’s visit request, blasted her decision not to come. … ||

It is true that – as is the case with all Zionists – Mr. Deri’s hypocritical hatred of justice, accountability and equality when it comes to I-P coupled with his love of Jewish / “Jewish State” supremacism overcome any desire to be consistently moral.

oldgeezer
oldgeezer on August 18, 2019, 8:58 pm

@Mayhem

What’s your point? They don’t allow gay pride parades so it’s ok if Israel kills their children and women?

Get a grip you psycho.

They deserve the same rights as all other people. Let’s not forget that Israel doesn’t not a lengthy history of permitting gay pride parades. And in fairness it isn’t a lenghty history for many countries and many others don’t allow it.

Your attempt to pink wash the brutal savagery and immoralty of the idf and the country that controls it just doesn’t work.

Mayhem
Mayhem on August 18, 2019, 7:57 pm

We have seen the U.S. justifiably leveraging aid that has been coming to the PA and its agencies because it is on the Palestinian side that there are clearly policies that need to be redressed. It seems though that when you hate Israel you are compelled to ignore harsh realities like this:

“The Palestinian Authority police have banned a Palestinian LGBT rights group from organizing any activities in the West Bank and threatened to arrest them, saying such activities are contrary to the “values of Palestinian society.”

In a statement Saturday, police spokesman Louay Arzeikat said events organized by the group al-Qaws “go against and infringe upon the higher principles and values of Palestinian society.”

Read more at PA police ban Palestinian LGBT group from holding activities in West Bank.

Mayhem
Mayhem on August 18, 2019, 7:48 pm

Israeli Interior Minister Aryeh Deri, who had approved Ms Tlaib’s visit request, blasted her decision not to come.

“It turns out that it was a provocation to embarrass Israel. Her hatred for Israel overcomes her love for her grandmother,” he wrote aptly on Twitter.

CigarGod
CigarGod on August 18, 2019, 7:43 pm

I read the order creating the commission. It seems to be limited to work within its boundaries.

Jackdaw
Jackdaw on August 18, 2019, 7:24 pm

@balktalk

They were Muslims a month ago when Israel agreed to let them in.

Eva Smagacz
Eva Smagacz on August 18, 2019, 6:47 pm

“Judeo-Christian” usually applies to “values”, although I have never found what they are…..

But I like the James’s observation. When we translate inshallah, we translate it as God willing.

jackal
jackal on August 18, 2019, 6:08 pm

@ Brent — you said — :
“it will likely not be as effective until it is accompanied by securing the moral high ground with an organized human rights movement as they did. Campaigning for human rights discombobulates the defending narrative… and Americans will develop a new understanding.”

From an outsider’s perspective, it has been very difficult, dating back to the very beginning of the USA as a nation, looking at it from a historical point of view, to think of the US as ever having attained true democracy, and certainly never having set a standard to dictate from a “moral high ground” in its dealings with the rest of the world.
As a relatively recent example all you have to do is think of Sarijavo, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan or any number of countries in South America. Americans may think that, because of their, ahem, “christian” background that they can take the Moral High Ground with the rest of the world and preach to others that their viewpoint of democracy is the one and only way to run a gov’t.
I’m not suggesting that there aren’t a number of gov’ts around the world that could benefit from a change in the way their countries are ruled; but I sure as hell would not use the US as an example.
When you align yourself with an apartheid gov’t such as Israel, and play patty-cake with them when the Israelis are so blatantly heedless of any rulings made by the Geneva Convention or the International Court of Justice than you are no better than the Israelis.

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 5:40 pm

“We simply cannot figure it out for ourselves.”

Yes, I noticed that.
Anyway, I await your VH1 special, “Mondoweiss: The Mishegos Behind the Moderation”.

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 5:36 pm

“your belief in so -called international rights is not only bogus but a total lie and fantasy,”

That’s right! It’s Israel’s nuclear weapons which underwrite the survival of the Jewish people!

Jackdaw
Jackdaw on August 18, 2019, 5:35 pm

@looser

The last thing in the world I’m going to do is waste my time trying to win over and influence Kool aid drunks, or floaters caught up in the I/P vortex.

I do take a great deal of satisfaction exposing hypocrites and haters.

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 5:32 pm

“So following your logic nobody over in America can identify as African American, Irish American, etc.” “Dabakr”

No, in America somebody’s cultural, religious, social or racial self-identification should not make any difference to their rights as a citizen, and above that as a person, even if they are not a citizen.

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 5:25 pm

Maybe I can hold my breath until we reach the ground floor.

echinococcus
echinococcus on August 18, 2019, 5:13 pm

“‘The articulated objectives’, (which is so the name of my new prog-rock band) of Mondoweiss are to be found on the “About” page.”

Thank you, kind sir, for this 384th reminder. We simply cannot figure it out for ourselves.

echinococcus
echinococcus on August 18, 2019, 5:08 pm

Mooser

Were you, now? Really, you despise Buchanan — what a surprise! I mean, he’s an anti-Zionist and he’s certainly been opposed to all the wars aggression waged by your wing or the other wing of the Single Party. Including the rape of Libya and Syria, cheered on by many people here. Of course that’s to be despised, and you must join forces with all the warmongers and Zionists (provided they’re liberal, of course!) to avoid this catastrophe.

That’s some masterful use of irony, now, ain’t it? Even though you so improperly call it “sarcasm”.

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 5:07 pm

“No lay off this dead horse , please.”

“Jackdaw”, does it ever occur to you how demented you, uh, appear?

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 5:01 pm

“I’m not convinced that Zionists have any desire to be moral, or even that they understand morality.”

And if that isn’t bad enough, they can’t count, or do fractions.

Talkback
Talkback on August 18, 2019, 4:58 pm

Mooser: “I think your comments here, “Jackdaw”, have helped even more people make up their minds about Zionism.”

The best way to delegitimize Zionism is by giving Zionists a state, a platform or both.

Talkback
Talkback on August 18, 2019, 4:51 pm

DaBakr; “So following your logic nobody over in America can identify as African American, Irish American, etc.”

That’s not my logic, but your pseudo logic. Following my logic everybody in America can identify as American, but nobody in Israel can identify with being an Israeli, because there is no Israeli nation in your settler Apartheid entity.

DaBakr: “The law doesn’t prevent anybody from identifying as anything they want but they are, if citizens, officially Israeli.

Nice try. The law prevents citizens of Israel to officially belong to the nation of Israel. Only Jews do. Compare that to states that are neither under Apartheid nor Nazism. The citizens of the US, France, Great Britain, Germany etc belong to the nation of these states. “Jewish” is not a citizenship and will never be. That’s Israel inherent racism and its differentiation between nationals (only Jews) and citizens is similar to Germany under Nazism where Jewish citizens didn’t belong to the German nation.

David Green
David Green on August 18, 2019, 4:48 pm

Yes, it does stand for anti-racism in a very genuine form. But anti-racism when lumped in with effectively non-existent anti-semitism and detached from geopolitical analysis is not very helpful, including for African-Americans, immigrants, etc. What it gets you is neoliberal identity politics, and what that will get us I’m afraid is Kamala Harris, or Mayor Pete.

Talkback
Talkback on August 18, 2019, 4:33 pm

DaBakr: “Yeah. I know. With you, everything about israel skirts close to nazi and the third Reich.”

This time I was only talking about your attitude towards international law that reminded me of Nazis. I can’t help it. I have studied Nazism more than you or Israel would like.

Now if you also want to feel like a Nazi go and serve like an occupation soldier in the Westbank.

Sulphurdunn
Sulphurdunn on August 18, 2019, 4:32 pm

There is really nothing more to discuss regarding this matter. If Israel refuses to allow members of the United States Congress to enter its territory, the US should reciprocate and the US government should place America’s New Jersy of the Middle East on a travel ban list.

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 4:29 pm

“When’s Hostage coming back?
I’m so tired of the JV league.”

I think your comments here, “Jackdaw”, have helped even more people make up their minds about Zionism.

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 4:23 pm

“…for all his progressive cred is shockingly ill informed on Israel/Palestine.”

And, unfortunately, you could easily substitute the name “Thom Hartmann” at the beginning of that sentence.

dianeshammas
dianeshammas on August 18, 2019, 4:15 pm

Truly, thank you David very brave and noble of you. It takes one act like yours and thousands like yours BDS will prevail as it did in the overthrow of Apartheid South Africa. Sentient Americans (and the international community) acted against our government’s support of Apartheid South Africa . The same will happen with Palestine —-Palestine shall be free .

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 4:13 pm

Zionism is trolling.

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 4:11 pm

“The engaging of consultation services is an acknowledgment of the centrality of politics” “brent”

In that case, “brent”, would you like to recommend a few reputable “Jewish Public Relations firms” for the campaign.

Wait, let me Google that and see what we come up with. Well what do you know, there’s lots of them. Which one do you think will take on the job?

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 4:04 pm

“I disagree, Mooser.”

I despise Pat Buchanan. I was being sarcastic.

Talkback
Talkback on August 18, 2019, 3:40 pm

Emet: “If peace will happen it will only do so when true sharing comes about.”

So let us hear you call for a one state solution and the return for Palestinian refugees.

Emet: “Let us hear you call on Muslims to support Jews praying on the Temple Mount?”

Why not?! The Al Aqsa Mosque is actually the third temple and was co-designed by a Jew. But you do know that this is actually forbidden in accordance with a halakhic prohibition against temei ha’met, don’t you?

edwardm
edwardm on August 18, 2019, 3:40 pm

people insist on saying: “Judeo-Christian” too, instead of “Abrahamic”. Artificial and intellectually dishonest.

Talkback
Talkback on August 18, 2019, 3:39 pm

Emet: “If peace will happen it will only do so when true sharing comes about.”

So let us hear you call for a one state solution and the return for Palestinian refugees.

Emet: “Let us hear you call on Muslims to support Jews praying on the Temple Mount?”

Why not?! The Al Aqsa Mosque is actually the third temple and was co-designed by a Jew. But you do know that this is actually forbidden in accordance with a halakhic prohibition against temei ha’met, don’t you?

Peter in SF
Peter in SF on August 18, 2019, 3:39 pm

It was not clear if Netanyahu or Dermer requested Trump’s tweet on the issue Thursday morning, or if the president took the initiative himself.

I love how this comes from a source that calls itself “Jewish Insider”. How do you cite a source with a name like that to a mainstream audience without sounding like an anti-Semitic conspiracy theorist? Brilliant choice of name to avoid attention from people who aren’t actual Jewish insiders.

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 3:22 pm

“Incidentally, I have concluded that the function of Mondoweiss is rather different from the articulated objectives.”

“The articulated objectives”, (which is so the name of my new prog-rock band) of Mondoweiss are to be found on the “About” page.

Talkback
Talkback on August 18, 2019, 3:17 pm

@ Infantile Zionist

They were not muslim.

Talkback
Talkback on August 18, 2019, 3:13 pm

The same kind of imperfections states had that discriminated against Jews

Mooser
Mooser on August 18, 2019, 2:57 pm

“I assure you that your victory will be short-lived.”

Don’t say you’re orphans, for we know that game.

brent
brent on August 18, 2019, 2:48 pm

In 1988 there was Rabin’s order to break the bones of stone-throwers and the resultant videos of soldiers holding youngster’s arms across a large rock for another soldier to drop another in order to break the bone. The videos were so graphic and compelling most media jumped on the story and Americans were disgusted and outraged.

Then there was the Sabra Shatila massacre and videos in 1982 that made Israel look terrible in the eyes of most and led the news for a week until the Tylenol contamination scare bumped it.

How to understand these media events come and go without bringing Palestinians closer to freedom? I think, its more fundamentally not about “the Benjamins” and the “alliance” but about the dominate narrative so assiduously cultivated that the hidden agenda is Israel’s existence, and “Israel’s existence is in question and has the right to defend its self!”.

Many Americans have long understood Israelis are heavy-handed, arrogant, even “disturbed” by their past and do things that are “unforgivable”. That does not fundamentally alter the equation because so many also believe the “ingathering of the Jews” was foretold as a precursor to the second coming of Christ… God’s will so to speak. That belief along with perceptions of history justify Israel’s existence and form the foundation for political support… regardless of Israel unacceptable behaviors.

Altering this narrative, this “weapon” for Greater Israel, that has held back civilization and dominated the American political landscape, should be front and center. It’s foolhardy to think it can be done through force or coercion, especially while the existence/defending narrative has legs.

Changing this narrative will likely not be accomplished when acts of murder are celebrated and rewarded, even though small in number. All violence has become an enemy of peaceful co-existence. I can think of no more effective way to change the narrative than to reach for the moral high ground with a disciplined campaign for human rights to stand side by side with BDS.

Phil writes the Tlaib/Omar affair go traction because they were elected representatives. I’d modify that to say the episode forced MC to avoid colliding with principles Americans hold dear. To avoid the hypocrite charge. When American values take center stage, that alters the equation.

Yes, BDS is non-violent and draws on the strategies of the American and South African human rights movements. But, it will likely not be as effective until it is accompanied by securing the moral high ground with an organized human rights movement as they did. Campaigning for human rights discombobulates the defending narrative… and Americans will develop a new understanding.

Also, there is the game-changing letter by 21 Israeli lawmakers asking Congress to abandon their safe position calling for a two-state solution. That will force many to “reposition” themselves on the matter. The IP conflict is now in flux and serious discussion and debate on the nature of “the struggle are in order”.

Jackdaw
Jackdaw on August 18, 2019, 1:05 pm

@talk drivel

“Well imagine the Zionist sh**storm if an US congress member had openly declared that s/he was only interested in visiting Palestine”

Actually, if you were up on your current events, you’d know that five congressmen had already taken the same trip to the West Bank as Omar and Tlaib, and there was no zionist shit storm.

Nobody cared because the five congressmen were not supporting the BDS movement and running up against Israeli law.

https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1162417439306596352?s=20

When’s Hostage coming back?
I’m so tired of the JV league.

CHUCKMAN
CHUCKMAN on August 18, 2019, 12:27 pm

Your comment makes absolutely no logical sense.

And shabby language to boot.

CHUCKMAN
CHUCKMAN on August 18, 2019, 12:25 pm

Rashida Tlaib is one brave, tough, and honest person.

Oh, if we only had a few dozen more like her in American politics.

But, no, what the world sees from Washington resembles a fat flock of sheep just contentedly chewing and belching

Washington ignores terrible problems of rights and freedom and abuse and human oppression that it has helped to create.

I admire what she is doing unconditionally.

And she brought even more attention to her matter by first getting permission of the arrogant Israeli government to go and then refusing to exercise it as a matter of principle.

Readers might enjoy this recent related posting;

https://chuckmanwordsincomments.wordpress.com/2019/08/17/john-chuckman-comment-america-could-have-settled-the-matter-of-israel-palestine-decades-ago-there-were-many-good-opportunities-too-so-why-didnt-it/

bcg
bcg on August 18, 2019, 12:04 pm

@Hophmi: perhaps you can tell us what Israel’s “imperfections” are and what you would recommend doing about them.

CigarGod
CigarGod on August 18, 2019, 11:20 am

Doing my duty to cull the lies and half-truths of Hophmi, as usual.
This following bit from U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum:

“How many survivors are there today?
Estimates of the number of remaining survivors vary greatly and depend in part on how one defines a survivor. The Museum honors as survivors any persons, Jewish or non-Jewish, who were displaced, persecuted, or discriminated against due to the racial, religious, ethnic, and political policies of the Nazis and their allies between 1933 and 1945. In addition to former inmates of concentration camps, ghettos, and prisons, this definition includes, among others, people who were refugees or were in hiding.

The Registry of Holocaust Survivors currently contains the names of over 195,000 survivors and family members and we are adding more every day. A growing number of these individuals, who registered their names and historical information over the last 15 years, are now deceased.

The Registry is a voluntary and testimonial list, and is by no means a comprehensive list of all survivors. Furthermore, most of the survivors in our database live in the United States or Canada, although we have registrations from survivors and family members from 59 countries.”

CigarGod
CigarGod on August 18, 2019, 10:54 am

Shallow and meaningless response, as usual.
Can’t expect more of Israel, when the have built their house on the sand of occupation and apartheid.

ShabbesT
ShabbesT on August 18, 2019, 10:48 am

Bill Maher for all his progressive cred is shockingly ill informed on Israel/Palestine. He consistently invites on his show the NYT zZonist cheerleaders Bari Weiss and Bret Stephens. The only guest who dared to cross him—ever so gently–was singer John Legend. Do not expect o see him back on the show.

RoHa
RoHa on August 18, 2019, 9:48 am

As for sharing the land, what obligation did the people of the land have to share the land with any immigrants, let alone immigrants who planned to take the land away from them?

But when they saw that the authorities would not protect them from the immigrants, and crushed their resistance, they decided sharing was the best option.

All the proposals for a single secular state that the Palestinians have put forward, both befor and after 1948, show readiness to share in the joint-use sense of “share”.

The Zionists rejected those proposals.

The two-state proposals that Palestinians put forward show readiness to share in the division sense of “share”

The Zionists reject those proposals.

It is the Zionists who refuse to share.

RoHa
RoHa on August 18, 2019, 9:34 am

Emet, the Palestinians resisted having their land taken from them, so they asked the authorities to support them. This was the sensible thing to do whether they had “national aspirations” or not. It was the sensible thing to do regardless of whether there was a state called “Palestine” or not.

So why do you think it matters whether they had “national aspirations ” and so forth?

lobewyper
lobewyper on August 18, 2019, 8:53 am

Thanks to Phil, Adam and the rest of the Mondoweiss staff for their tireless efforts to tell the truth about the tragedy of Israel-Palestine. By the way, wasn’t it John Mearsheimer that years ago termed The Occupation as “brutal?” Haven’t heard much from him lately, or from Steven Walt, for that matter. What’s up with that?

hophmi
hophmi on August 18, 2019, 7:31 am

So wonderful that BDSers get off on triggering a community of Holocaust survivors.

I assure you that your victory will be short-lived. At the end of the day, Americans are decent people, and they recognize that Israel, like most societies, has its imperfections, but it’s paradise compared to the rest of the region, including from the standpoints of minority rights and human rights.

And I assure you that this is far more about Trump than it is about BDS, and once Trump goes, so will moments like this. So congrats. You are, as I’ve always says, Trump’s beat friends and beneficiaries.

Ossinev
Ossinev on August 18, 2019, 7:29 am

@Jackdaw
“I think the greater question is, ‘How do you visit a country and boycott it at the same time?’ ”

I don`t think either of them are interested in boycotting Palestine.

“Seems oxymoronic”

Yup the world is full of poxy morons. I can think of one amazing orange featured example in particular. Friend of yours?

Talkback
Talkback on August 18, 2019, 6:49 am

Well Jackdaw, how about you proving the claim that they did try? I know that you are a Zionist, but please try to understand the principle of in dubio pro reo even if it’s not generally applied to Nonjews in your beloved Apartheid entity.

Talkback
Talkback on August 18, 2019, 6:29 am

Well imagine the Zionist sh**storm if an US congress member had openly declared that s/he was only interested in visiting Palestine. That’s not the way to bend the knee and lick Zionist boots.

Talkback
Talkback on August 18, 2019, 6:24 am

Well Emet, if you or your ancestors were natives of Palestine you would know the following.

In 1925 a nationality law was enacted in Palestine.

But this won’t stop you from lying.

It proves that Palestine was a state, though under mandate and that Palestinians are a nation which was also the position of the Pemanent Mandate Comission.

“Palestine, as the mandate clearly showed, was a subject under international law. While she could not conclude international conventions, the mandatory Power, until further notice, concluded them on her behalf, in virtue of Article 19 of the mandate. The mandate, in Article 7, obliged the Mandatory to enact a nationality law, which again showed that the Palestinians formed a nation, and that Palestine was a State, though provisionally under guardianship. It was, moreover, unnecessary to labour the point;”
https://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/FD05535118AEF0DE052565ED0065DDF7

But this won’t stop you from lying.

There is a lot of information which proves that Palestine was one of the successor states of the Ottoman Empires and that all territories which were detached from Turkeyand under a Class-A-Mandate were states:

“The Treaty of Lausanne required the newly created states that acquired the territory to pay annuities on the Ottoman public debt, and to assume responsibility for the administration of concessions that had been granted by the Ottomans. A dispute regarding the status of the territories was settled by an Arbitrator appointed by the Council of the League of Nations. It was decided that Palestine and Transjordan were newly created states according to the terms of the applicable post-war treaties. In its Judgment No. 5, The Mavrommatis Palestine Concessions, the Permanent Court of International Justice also decided that Palestine was responsible as the successor state for concessions granted by Ottoman authorities. The Courts of Palestine and Great Britain decided that title to the properties shown on the Ottoman Civil list had been ceded to the government of Palestine as an allied successor state.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_status_of_the_State_of_Palestine#Decisions_of_international_and_national_tribunals

But this won’t stop you from lying.

All citizens of Palestine had an ID-Card issued by the Goverment of Palestine which shows that there were not British subjects and therefore couldn’t receive a British Passport as you falsey claim:
https://www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/palestine/palestineid.htm

But this won’t stop you from lying.

Instead they were British protected persons, because the mandatory didn’t establish Palestinian Embassies or Consulates abroad but simply allowed Palestinian citizens to use its own. Therefore Palestinians received a “Mandatory Palestine Passport”:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine_passport

But this won’t stop you from lying.

And the only history or national identity that was invented was that there had been an exile of Jews (which “return” to their homeland) and that of your pseudo Jewish “nation” which is based on ethnicity/religion and is nothing more than what has been called a “nationality WITHIN citizenship”. Contrary to the Palestinian nation which is a real nation and a constitutive people because its based on citizenship which is the standard for all states that are not ruled by Apartheid or Nazism. Israel can’t even provide a constitutionally enshrined definition of who counts as a Jew and who doesn’t. So much for the fake Jewish “nation”.

But this won’t stop you from lying either. I can hardly remember any of your comments which is not full of lies.

Emet
Emet on August 18, 2019, 6:02 am

Roha: Why does it matter? It matters because even when Jews started returning home in small numbers, the local Arab population turned to the Ottoman’s to prevent this from happening. They carried out violent attacks all the time and were not interested in sharing. This holds true during the Mandate as well. If peace will happen it will only do so when true sharing comes about. And that’s where you should be placing all your efforts instead selling lies and pushing Palestinian Arabs further up the tree. Let us hear you call on Muslims to support Jews praying on the Temple Mount? When this happens we will know that peace has somewhat of a chance, and not a second before.

brent
brent on August 18, 2019, 2:38 am

Misterioso….Breaking the Silence, Jewish Voices and Mondoweiss are going strong. The engaging of consultation services is an acknowledgment of the centrality of politics, of working the system, competing for an outcome and creating the political ground for MC to move to.

Arafat always looked down on the idea of PR and refused to listen to the advice he was given from the firm he reluctantly hired. Raja Shehadeh regretted he was never able to influence the struggle. Glubb Pasha’s writings suggested working together was not a strong suit. Recent history has not been particularly encouraging. Let’s hope you are correct. The rude rebuke of Trump was not necessary or wise.

With the barring of MC and the public renunciation of the two-state concept by Israeli politicians and encouraging Congress to do the same, the ground has shifted. Options have opened up and we are suddenly in new territory.

RoHa
RoHa on August 18, 2019, 2:24 am

I’m not convinced that Zionists have any desire to be moral, or even that they understand morality. They certainly seem incapable of even attempting an argument for Zionism that is based on normal moral principles.

Jackdaw
Jackdaw on August 18, 2019, 1:38 am

@Talkhack

Never a famous Palestinian village and never a famous Canaanite village, but definitely a famous Jewish village.

No lay off this dead horse , please.

Peter in SF
Peter in SF on August 18, 2019, 1:06 am

Oops, I replied to this in the wrong place. (See my other comment below.)
I’m not trying to say Rep. Sherman is correct about “the goals of the international leaders of the BDS movement”, just that his statement makes a distinction between those and the explicit goals of the BDS movement, which were listed by Phil. I’ve noticed that anti-BDS activists try hard to avoid stating the 3 stated goals of the BDS movement.

DaBakr
DaBakr on August 18, 2019, 12:57 am

@g

“his continued popularity….” You mean in the tiny pocket of Syria that he controlled until big daddy putin saved his ass? He’s not popular, he is feared. And his use of chemicals on civilians was proven, the intelligence community in the US showed Gabbard the undisputed evidence and she changed her position accordingly. It’s all out there to explore.

She still doesnt believe in forced(by the) US military regime change but her positions are definitely a different kind of democrat

DaBakr
DaBakr on August 18, 2019, 12:52 am

@tb

Yeah. I know. With you, everything about israel skirts close to nazi and the third Reich

@og

I actually agree the above proposed solution is absurd but I’m assuming for different reasons. The idea that the fanatical Shia iranians would recruit Sunni/tribal Palestinians is the first ridiculous assumption that comes to mind. The Palestinians in Syria didn’t fare too well with Assad and his troops as they neither fare too well in lebanese refugee camps. And that’s just for starters @snmst

DaBakr
DaBakr on August 18, 2019, 12:43 am

@tb

So following your logic nobody over in America can identify as African American, Irish American, etc. The law doesn’t prevent anybody from identifying as anything they want but they are, if citizens, officially Israeli.

@hrb

I understsnd not all Israeli druze are sympathetic to the Israeli govt.and do not want to enlist. I also know plenty of bedouin. Some feel aggrieved but not most. I know bedoiun who have enlisted.

Your point, from my perspective is that Israel is as multi-culti as many western, Hispanic and even Muslim nations. Iran for example….very multi…

Sibiriak
Sibiriak on August 17, 2019, 11:55 pm

with many Americans coming round to embrace one of the BDS goals, sanctions.
————————————-

Sanctions are a tactic, not a goal.

It’s yet to be seen to what extent and how seriously Americans are embracing BDS’s three goals: ending the occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel in 1967 and removing the separation wall; recognizing the right of Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and respecting, protecting, and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in U.N. resolution 194.

eljay
eljay on August 17, 2019, 9:01 pm

As is the case with all Zionists, Mr. Deri’s hypocritical hatred of justice, accountability and equality in I-P coupled with his love of Jewish / “Jewish State” supremacism overcome any desire to be consistently moral.

echinococcus
echinococcus on August 17, 2019, 8:58 pm

I disagree, Mooser. It won’t get better. TV must be completely cleansed from these war supporters and critics of Zionism. Buchanan coming back would make 2 of them in all of the TV sphere and that’s scary.
Instead, we must have wall-to-wall warmongers and Zionists in mainstream “media”. Even a single exception will spoil the fun.

echinococcus
echinococcus on August 17, 2019, 8:50 pm

Green,

“Is this the best that the “movement” can do?”

What movement? The only movement so far on and around this forum is the one you so accurately described: “In the #neverTrump era, they’ve joined with the progressives, and keep safely within the agenda of the Democratic Party, which is simply to get the Presidency back (for the “respectable” ruling class).” What else is moving?

I agree with Keith: if this site did help a few of us train our thought and check facts, that’s already a lot. A “political force” it cannot be.

RoHa
RoHa on August 17, 2019, 7:59 pm

“If you … 1964.”

Even if all this is true, why does it matter? The Arabs of the area were living in their own homes, running their businesses, farming the land, and exporting the splendid oranges they had bred. A bunch of foreigners invaded, drove them out, stole their lands, houses, and goods, and set up an apartheid state in the territory.

This was wrong. It was wrong regardless of how the Arabs viewed themselves, and regardless of their “national aspirations” or lack thereof.

JWalters
JWalters on August 17, 2019, 7:54 pm

Israel’s secret strong-arm tactics are coming into public view, its mask dropping, gradually, but inexorably. Here’s an excellent interview with Whitney Webb on her spectacular series of articles which connect the Epstein blackmail operation to other sexual blackmail operations going back decades, involving both the Israelis and organized crime.
“The Jeffrey Epstein Scandal Is Much Bigger Than Jeffrey Epstein”
https://www.truthdig.com/articles/the-jeffrey-epstein-scandal-is-much-bigger-than-jeffrey-epstein/

Here’s the latest Whitney Webb article, with links to her previous ones.
“Mega Group, Maxwells and Mossad: The Spy Story at the Heart of the Jeffrey Epstein Scandal”
https://www.mintpressnews.com/mega-group-maxwells-mossad-spy-story-jeffrey-epstein-scandal/261172/

Israel is increasingly emerging as a cesspool of religious fanatics, war profiteering banksters, and assorted mobsters, controlling America’s media and Congress by bribes and blackmail.

edwardm
edwardm on August 17, 2019, 7:46 pm

and Palestinians hate Israel more than they love their children, right Golda Meir? This is anti Palestinian RACISM plain and simple. A racist “trope” endlessly repeated by vicious child killing moochers. Vile despicable and typically Israeli.

JWalters
JWalters on August 17, 2019, 7:40 pm

The sadistic Israelis show their “humanitarian” side.

eljay
eljay on August 17, 2019, 7:33 pm

|| Emet: … No matter how many times you try to invent Palestinian Arab history, you will always come up against the truth. … ||

No matter how many times you try to promote the manufactured myth that geographic Palestine is some sort of eternal / ancient / historic / one true / lost homeland to every person in the world – every citizen in and of every homeland throughout the world – who has chosen to embrace the religion-based identity of Jewish, you will always come up against the truth and the indisputable fact that geographic Palestine is the actual homeland of all people living in or up to n-generations removed from the region.

You really should heed your own words: “Enough with the false stories already.”

edwardm
edwardm on August 17, 2019, 6:44 pm

and here I thought BDS was supposed to be ineffectual.
what a bunch of pantywaists. Brave when it comes to shooting children mind you….

David Green
David Green on August 17, 2019, 5:20 pm

That too; but the fact that the trolls get fed at all is also of some interest.

Beyond that, I participated in the “Lobby Wars” back in the day, I think to some benefit. I try not to miss Jeffrey Blankfort, but it’s hard.