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My post detailed one possible way forward.

It takes into account the warriors for Greater Israel want it all and operate by way of deceit.

The central strategy used to take it all, has been to keep Palestinian as far from political unity as possible. Lead them to believe politics is a dead end and violence is their only path. Note Sheik Yassin, a Hamas founder, was blown to bits soon after suggesting a long term Hudna during which “ways of living together could get worked out”…sic.

It is key to understand America does not “give”, Israel “takes”. This is how politics works in democracies. The parties to influence are the American and Israeli publics, not their politicians. Central in politics is building bridges to political support. This takes discipline, avoiding reputation mistakes and having a plan seen as in the common good and workable.

Americans, especially its Jews, supported Black activists and were instrumental in bringing equality into America. There are many in Israel who want peace and a quiet life. The more who believe Palestinians will deny that, the more difficult will be equal rights in one state or two.

The widespread contempt for Netanyahu and his kind, the revulsion for the genocide, and the attempted grab for Greater Israel, has opened a window of opportunity for Palestinian liberation. Hopefully there will be voices advocating for seizing the moment.

Just now, listening to the local NPR station at 7 pm CDT, on the hourly news brief, I heard the definitive assertion that pro-Palestinian protests “had veered into anti-Semitism” at times. The report did not say what those assertions were, so the listener could judge, nor did it explain what definition of anti-Semitism was being applied. I’ve heard so many misleading and even frankly dishonest allegations of anti-semitism from politicians, Israeli spokesmen, and others that don’t trust even NPR to judge about this without more information. As Mr. Trump would say, “SAD.”

Jewish students who feel threatened by the perceived rise of anti-Semitism on campus need to realize that the current rise in anti-Zionism is NOT anti-Semitism. They are told that by the ADL to scare them into supporting Zionism, no matter what crimes the Zionists commit.

Such use of fear is typical of cult leaders. Other standard tactics are to tell cult members they are special in some way, and they must preserve their specialness by marrying only other cult members, and by living among other cult members. Sound familiar?

How can there be a peaceful future when Israel is commiting apartheid in the West Bank, genocide in Gaza and with every leader of Israel starting with netanyahoo saying they will never allow a Palestinian state?

No, I’m claiming that Israel has killed a large number of civilians…

Really? 34,000?
Of the 34,000 “murders” at the top of this thread, were any of them not civilians?
Do you really believe that when a combat soldier dies in combat, it is murder?

So erasing the apartheid South African government was a call for exterminating white South Africans. Eliminating the Confederacy meant all Southern whites were eliminated.

But I can see why an apologist for Israel would think it means genocide— you say you want to eliminate Hamas and look at what your country is doing to Palestinians. As people say, every Zionist accusation seems to be a confession.

I pointed this out in a previous post— if you applaud killing Hamas members who aren’t fighters, then what objection other than a racist one could you have against killing Israeli members of political parties who support settlements or war crimes? Or any member of the IDF, whether in uniform or not? But you live in your little bubble where your side is civilized— from high atop Mt. Olympus Jon S and the other “ civilized “ Westerners decide which unarmed people they get to kill. Sorry Jon, but if Palestinians had an Air Force and used your standards— not whatever standards Hamas uses, but yours—Israel would be a wasteland and all homes where IDF members or Israeli government workers or political party members lived would be targets, along with any hospital where any soldier or Israeli official visits, and every university. Apparently the Israeli equivalent of the Pentagin is in Tel Aviv. Oops. There goes Tel Aviv. Oh, by the way, your side rapes and sexually abuses and tortures prisoners so by your own standards, guess what every Israeli in any way associated the Israeli justice system deserves?

The 34,000 figure is an undercount. I suspect that many of the Hamas fighters killed, whatever number that would be, aren’t even in that list. They are killed in battle and never get counted. Thousands of civilians are probably also uncounted. But I do see Israelis talk as though every Palestinian death which isn’t a child or a woman is Hamas, which is statistically absurd.

I said this already and could probably say it 50 more times. Everything you say in justification of Israel’s actions is an argument that would justify turning Israel into a pile of rubble. That isn’t what I would defend. But it’s what you argue for.

There was a time when I thought Jews didn’t do things like this.
A friend, not Jewish, when he learned that I am not a Zionist, said, “How can the Jews, of all people, do to other people what was done to them?”

Call for genocide? There’s already a genocide going on!

OMG. I’ll have to get in touch with these students. When I was an undergraduate there was a “riot” to keep the trees on Memorial Drive from being cut down. Not to say there weren’t real problems in the world. We were insulated from them.

Atlanta Police Violently Arrest Emory Students & Faculty to Clear Gaza Solidarity Encampment
April 26, 2024

DemocracyNow/Amy Goodman

“As a wave of student protests against Israel’s war on Gaza continues to spread from coast to coast, schools and law enforcement have responded with increasing brutality to campus encampments.

One of the most violent police crackdowns took place at Emory University in Atlanta on Thursday, when local and state police swept onto the campus just hours after students had set up tents on the quad in protest against Israel’s war on Gaza as well as the planned police training center known as Cop City. Police used tear gas and stun guns to break up the encampment as they wrestled people to the ground, and are accused of using rubber bullets.

Among those arrested were a few faculty members. We hear from two of the arrested professors: Noëlle McAfee, chair of the philosophy department, and Emil’ Keme, professor of English and Indigenous studies. We also speak with Palestinian American organizer and medical student Umaymah Mohammad, who describes how Emory has repeatedly suppressed activism on campus since the start of the war in October, and says law enforcement in Georgia work closely with Israeli authorities as part of a police training exchange. “We no longer accept our tuition dollars and our tax money going to fund an active genocide,” she says.”

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/26/emory_protests

No, I’m claiming that Israel has killed a large number of civilians with its indiscriminate bombing, I’m claiming that there’s enough evidence to charge Israel with violating the laws of war.

“I do think there’s a lot of fear among students, faculty, and a lot of different people that speaking out about Palestine could cost you a job or could cost you future career opportunities.”
______________________________________________________________

If Palestinian activists call for their President Abbas to have elections or follow through with his stated intention to call for a one state agreement, destructive narratives will fall, supporters will be on safer ground and a peaceful future will become more possible.

One wonders where that “bloated thug in a police uniform” may have had some of his brutality training at?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“For more than three decades, law enforcement leaders from around the metro have traveled to Israel to train officers there on best practices in community policing and homeland security.

It’s through a group called the Georgia International Law Enforcement Exchange (GILEE) based out of Georgia State University and run by a man who called Israel home, Dr. Robert Friedmann.”

“The most recent delegation traveled to Israel for two weeks in June and included 12 Georgia police chiefs and command staff, three Georgia sheriffs, the former director of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, and members of the Department of Justice, Georgia Public Safety Training Center, and Georgia Department of Public Safety.”

“We have had all of the chiefs of the Atlanta Police participate in it. Many of the chiefs from around the state participate in it,” Dr. Friedmann said.

It’s often a deeply meaningful trip for the people who go.”

Gazan authorities say that mass graves had been dug on the hospital grounds before an Israeli raid there in February but accuse Israel of later opening the site to add bodies.

Sure, that makes total sense.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/25/world/middleeast/gaza-mass-grave-nasser-hospital.html?smid=url-share

“Political moments mark time, but they mark possibilities too. The possibilities we are creating at Penn’s Gaza Solidarity Encampment….a decolonized future liberated from apartheid, genocide, and oppression…. we will proudly and tirelessly fight for a liberated Palestine”.
___________________________________________________________

Worrisome is whether Palestinians can get to liberation without a political objective more Americans understand and would stand behind.

One can only regret current activism is not focused around equal rights under one governance. Or that the anniliation of the other narrative was not thriving. Divestment makes for a longer/divisive battle and alienates needed allies.

Leadership is lacking.

34,000 is the figure produced by the Gaza Ministry of Health, which is Hamas, which makes it suspicious. But even if we take it seriously, the point is that they refuse to make distinctions between civilians and terrorists. So “34000 innocent Palestinians” can only be true if Israel hasn’t killed a single armed terrorist.
“Not all would be fighters”: I once thought that you objected to killing civilians . Now it looks like you also have a problem with killing Hamas operatives who are not “fighters”. Hamas is a criminal terrorist organization of killers rapists and kidnappers. Sure, Hamas has accountants and computer technicians and cooks and so forth. They are all complicit. If they didn’t actually kill rape and kidnap -they can argue for a reduced sentence at their trial.

Eracing Israel would mean getting rid of the Israelis, at least the Jewish ones. which means genocide.

what reasoning or what evidence leads you to that belief?

The evidence is 6 months of war. Are you claiming that no combatants have been killed in the war, that every Palestinian casualty has been civilian?

All combatants?

Did I say they were all combatants?

OK. Let’s rephrase that sentence. “Not all the 34,000 Palestinians killed since October 7 were murdered.”

A bloated thug in a police uniform beat up a female professor of economics at Emory University yesterday. You can find the tape on CNN.

The main danger on college campuses comes from the police. And of course when it comes to protestors , you have to be extremely stupid to think that the only violence comes from the pro Palestinian side and in fact it doesn’t. But as usual on this subject, the only incivility and violence we are supposed to know about comes from the side that opposes the genocide in Gaza.

I don’t like violence or bigotry from either side and would take the complaints about the pro- Palestinian protestors more seriously if the complainers showed any sign of having a consistent set of standards. But it’s the same old hypocritical crap. And one of my bought and paid for senators just proposed a bill that would elevate the racist IHRA definition of antisemitism as the official standard.

It would be great to see intrepid journalists ask these White House, and State Department spokespeople the following question:
How old were you when you realized that you would be willing to defend mass graves to advance your career?

Children? Babies? Old ladies? Pregnant women? All combatants?

It will be interesting to know how many of these police officers, seen in many videos being very rough with the protestors, were trained in the genocidal nation. If they were trained by them, it would be very ironic, and would explain a lot.

You talking to me?

A few days ago the U.S. state department published a report on the state of human rights in Israel and the occupied territories. Repeat: U.S. State Department Report. The report gives it to Hamas with both barrels, then it moves on to Israel:

Significant human rights issues included credible reports of: arbitrary or unlawful killings, including extrajudicial killings; enforced disappearance; torture or cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment by government officials; harsh and life-threatening prison conditions; arbitrary arrest or detention; political prisoners or detainees; arbitrary or unlawful interference with privacy; punishment of family members for alleged offenses by a relative; serious abuses in a conflict by Hamas and Israel, including unlawful or widespread civilian deaths and harm, enforced disappearances or abductions, torture, physical abuses, and conflict-related sexual violence or punishment; serious restrictions on freedom of….

Well, you’ll have to read it and tell us what you think.

https://www.state.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/528267_ISRAEL-2023-HUMAN-RIGHTS-REPORT.pdf

And just exactly how are you making the assessment that “thousands definitely were’? Can you tell us what reasoning or what evidence leads you to that belief?

Universities are not responsible for maintaining fragile reality of indoctrinated zionist kids attending college. Jonny Greenblatt’s head-on collision with Tic-Tok is comical and it ain’t goin anywhere. His CNN oped was laughable over his disgust with the full-face mask keffiyeh that Columbia U. students were wearing in order NOT to be doxxed on Canary Mission.

BDS + boycott ALL orthodox zionist Doctors in US UNTIL the AMA calls for a ceasefire!

THE FINAL EXODUS from ZIONISM is UNBELIEVABLY EXHILARATING!

Why don’t you try and add birdseed, specifically millet, to your seder….it tastes like bitter herbs ; many Palestinian children were forced to eat birdseed in order to survive b/c jewish supremacist continuously blocked food-aid from entering the Gaza Strip.

ATL Orthodox rabbinate chronicled their trip to Kiryat Arba after Oct.7th; who hangs out in the most violent illegal settlement kissing Goldstein’s grave and supporting violent settlers stealing land and beating-up Palestinian farmers while bush-hogging their olive groves….for fun?

Did it make you happy when ATL COPS arrested, Prof. Claire McAfee, Chair of Philosophy Dept. for observing the protest???

EMORY is surrounded by zionist orthodox corrupt rabbinate…

Yes, Emory is located in a very Jewish part of greater Atlanta. Proximity to Jews does not make Emory, or anyone, guilty of genocide.

I know that some really messed up stuff gets past the comment censors, but it is still hard to believe that crap like this get posted.

Yes, it is off topic. And no, I do not believe that all 34,000 were combatants, but thousands definitely were.

Killing combatants in combat is not murder

Universities are a big business. They charge big bucks and promise a safe education. These demonstrations are a failure by the schools to give their students the education that they promised. The logic of the demonstrators is as follows: The university doesn’t count for shit. The rules of discourse either don’t apply here in this case or else don’t count for shit. There’s only one thing that counts for shit. And that’s attacking Israel verbally, financially and implicitly justifying attacks like that of October 7th.

First sentence: ‘In Gaza and the West Bank, over 34,000 Palestinians have been murdered since the siege began on October 7, 2023′

So I’m guessing you believe that killing combatants isn’t murder – the 34,000 are all combatants.
Is your belief that Palestinians = Hamas = Palestinians relevant here, or do you think it’s ‘off-topic‘?

“Analysis of satellite imagery and social media shows how Palestinians buried their dead in mass graves during Israel’s siege of Nasser hospital, and how the IDF bulldozed these graves after it took over.”

Palestinians buried their dead in mass graves? Do you think this raises some questions?

It is the lies, the indifference to loss of human lives, the deliberate starvation of civilians, the lies about UNWRA, and the vetoing of resolutions at the UN that condemn the apartheid nation’s war crimes, that are very obvious indications that the Biden administration says one thing, but does anything and everything to keep the unwavering support for the apartheid nation going, no matter what.

Biden has lied for them, and keeps ignoring warnings, and condemnations from Human Rights organizations. He has even ignored the fact, and denies, that the ICJ has concluded that there are plausible reasons to investigate Israel committing a genocide. Instead of taking the lead in pushing for investigations, the Biden administration, pretends it is “concerned” or says they are “looking into it”, but keeps the 2000 pound bombs and other deadly weapons flowing into the hands of the genocidal forces, to drop over terrorized and unarmed children.

The world is not fooled, apart from Biden’s buddies in the western nations, we are looked upon as being complicit in the killing, and deliberate starvation of helpless civilians, whose lives are of no value to the Biden administration. There is a chilling lack of humanity shown towards the victims of American bombs.

Actions do speak louder than words.

We are occupying Emory, not because it is the only institution that is complicit in genocide and police militarization, but because its ties are some of the strongest. Emory University, the Atlanta University Center Consortium, Georgia State University, and Georgia Tech have all intimidated and repressed students and employees who spoke out in support of Palestinians. These institutions have all refused to divest from Cop City and the Zionist occupation.

Emory students are NOT JOKING when they say Emory ties to genocide are the STRONGEST. EMORY is surrounded by zionist orthodox corrupt rabbinate that use settler-like tactics against its own community. The late Joe Bageant summed up what a REAL COMMUNITY looks like:

“From birth to grave, you needed neighbors and they needed you. I was very lucky to have seen that culture, which showed me that a real community of shared labor toward the
shared good is possible – or was at one time in my country”
– Joe Bageant

Thank you Emory, GSU, GATech protesters; it’s a hard road to hoe down here in DEEP zionism country!

Here’s link to racist Dr. Robert Friedman of GILEE; chief conductor driving CopCity train to mow down Atlanta. The exodus from zionism is exploding…Atlanta is buried much deeper in zionism and jewish supremacy than New England area but the mountain is moving.

https://www.cair.com/press_releases/cair-georgia-atlanta-town-hall-sheds-light-on-georgias-islamophobic-police-exchange-with-israel-and-other-human-rights-violators/

Palestine’s support system best assume it will not have a permanent place in media and world attention. Insights are needed on how to capitalize on the current political opportunity. Hopelessness can take over.

See here:
https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-798509

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-bulldozed-mass-graves-at-gaza-hospital-sky-news-analysis-shows-13121638

You don’t know that. The 34,000 figure is probably low. About 24,000 are women and children. Of the remainder, statistically one would expect most are civilian men. Hamas deaths may or may not be part of that number and not all would be fighters. Thousands of dead, civilian and otherwise, are in the rubble and not part of the 34,000.

I am assuming you are not omniscient, which seems likely given the other things you have said.

Seriously? Where is the lie in that sentence?

It isn’t a call for genocide. Presumably you mean the river to the sea comment, but interpreting that as genocidal is just part of the usual propaganda. Israel is committing genocide and you do your part to obscure that.

34,000 Palestinians have been murdered since the siege began on October 7, 2023. 

A shameless lie in the very first sentence.

It has been clear for some time that the IDF does not have the troop numbers to take and hold ground in Gaza. Exhausted soldiers have to be rotated out, possible replacements need to be held back for the assault on Rafah, and ever more deployed to repel Hezbollah in the north. Not to mention the numbers required to guard against air strikes from Iran, should Netanyahu be so foolish as to provoke further that hostile state.

Israel’s war crimes will be – literally – uncovered, as order is re-established and ordinary Gazans return to their homes to find and bury their dead.

cascade of bureaucratic bilge.

Well said.

Obviously, we need to “wait for Israel to investigate” and “see what they come up with.”

Protests at Columbia have received the most national attention, but of course others are active too. In Texas, Gov. Abbott and other politicians have no need for facts or nuance when they denounce the protesters as “anti-Semites” and demand that they be arrested. State Troopers on horseback remind one of times long gone:

https://www.texastribune.org/2024/04/25/ut-austin-palestine-protest-fallout/

No, the topic is understanding your beliefs about the situation.
If you believe Palestinians = Hamas = Palestinians, and if you believe that anyone who is associated with Hamas is a combatant, the conclusion is obvious.

Do you still believe Palestinians = Hamas = Palestinians?

I watched that press briefing live. Patel was icy in his responses. Cold, matter of fact. Filled with denials delivered in a dismissive and oh so annoyed way. Patel appeared to be ready to explode if any reporters continued to ask relevant questions. No compassion or real concern about the atrocities committed by the IDF.

What a wicked dance the Biden administration continues to do. Looks like it could bury them this fall.

Tariq many prayers for your continued safety!

“Moreover, the organization asserted that the exhumation process revealed “the presence of urinary catheters or splints that were still attached to some patients’ bodies,” indicating that there were executions of the sick and the injured at the hospital.”

Israeli officials, IDF etc have gone completely mad …consumed with rage and hatred! With Israeli officials etc locked into continuing this madness in Rafah there seems to be no end in sight.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/4/24/israels-war-on-gaza-live-rafah-family-killed-injured-in-israeli-strike#:~:text=Israeli%20government%20spokesman%20David%20Mencer%20said%20Israel%20is%20%E2%80%9Cmoving%20ahead,where%201.5%20Palestinians%20are%20sheltering.

George Galloway/Scott Ritter latest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsucQArXUTE

Horrendous

Having attended about 15 Passover dinners with Jewish friends and others have always been stunned by the silence in regard to the traditional prayers addressing peace, unity, brother/sisterhood applying to Palestinians. Several times after these dinners that took place between 1987-2005 would bring up this issue of exclusivity of some prayers and the inability to talk about the gruesome situation inflicted upon Palestinians by Israel. Jewish friends blinded by trauma, fear, etc, unable to talk about the Israel Palestine issue with cool heads and honesty. The massive contradictions in the prayers and reality. Blind support for Israel by most of my Jewish friends.

Some of these friends have changed, been more honest about what has and continues to go on. Long time coming.

https://cdn.fedweb.org/fed-69/2/JFNA-Haggadah.pdf

Bodies Recovered at Mass Graves in Nasser Hospital Bear Signs of Torture, Mutilation & Execution
DemocracyNow/Amy Goodman

Story April 25, 2024

“At least 320 bodies have been discovered buried in a mass grave at the destroyed Nasser Medical Complex in Khan Younis, just weeks after a similar mass grave containing up to 400 bodies was discovered amid the ruins of Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City. Some of the bodies, which include children, medical staff and patients, appear to have been executed or buried alive. Meanwhile, Israel continues its bombardment of Gaza as its assault of the beleaguered enclave surpasses 200 days. “Every single body that is being unearthed, you find tens of people rushing for the sake of identifying whether those are their relatives,” says Akram al-Satarri, a journalist based in Gaza. “Some of the people were tied. Some of the people had medical accessories on their hands, like the cannulas. And when they were unearthed from the ground, it was apparent that they were buried alive. Some people were tortured. Some of the bodies were extremely mutilated, which means that those bodies, some of their organs were taken by the Israeli occupation.” “

https://www.democracynow.org/2024/4/25/gaza_mass_graves_war_crimes

Vijay Prashad: Elites Afraid to Talk About Palestine
April 24, 2024

The Western political class has used all tools at its disposal to support Israel’s genocide while criminalizing solidarity.

“Israeli bombs continue to fall on Gaza, killing Palestinian civilians with abandon.

Al Jazeera published a story about the destruction of 24 hospitals in Gaza, each of them bombed mercilessly by the Israeli military. Half of the 35,000 Palestinians killed by Israel were children, their bodies littering the overwhelmed morgues and mosques of Gaza.

Andrew Gilmour, the former United Nations assistant secretary-general for human rights, told BBC Newsnight that the Palestinians are experiencing “collective punishment” and that what we are seeing in Gaza is “probably the highest kill rate of any military, killing anybody, since the Rwandan genocide of 1994.”

Silence on College Campuses

“At the University of Southern California (USC), Asna Tabassum, a South Asian American, was to deliver an address on campus to 65,000 people as the valedictorian of the class of 2024. Involved in the conversation around the Israeli war against the Palestinians, Tabassum was targeted by pro-Israeli activists who claimed to feel threatened.”

https://consortiumnews.com/2024/04/24/vijay-prashad-elites-afraid-to-talk-about-palestine/

Quashing University Protests and Banning TikTok To Make the Kids Love Israel
April 25, 2024

You kind of have to wonder what they’re thinking.

By Caitlin Johnstone

“It’s just a tough situation, with victims on both sides. On one side you’ve got people being slaughtered in droves by genocidal massacres and siege warfare, while on the other you’ve got people whose feelings get hurt when these atrocities are opposed. Hard to say which is worse.

I have dedicated every day of my life to the project of spreading awareness of the depravity and deceitfulness of the western empire, but I will never write anything more effective toward this end than what the empire is doing itself on university campuses right now.

[Students have been arrested at the University of Southern California and the University of Texas Austin while protests at Columbia University and other U.S. campuses continue.]

I mean, you kind of have to wonder what they’re thinking: “Yeah, that’s it. Violently quash pro-Palestine protests at universities, ban TikTok to ensure the suppression of pro-Palestine content, and saturate the boomer media with obvious propaganda. That’ll make the kids love Israel.”

[Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu predictably called the U.S. campus protests “anti-semitic” and said they had to be stopped. He went even further, saying in a video message that the protests are “reminiscent of what happened in German universities in the 1930s and he ominously said there would be “terrible consequences.”] “

https://consortiumnews.com/2024/04/25/catilin-johnstone-quashing-university-protests-and-banning-tiktok-to-make-the-kids-love-israel/

It seems super on-topic to me. 

No, the topic is that killing combatants in armed combat is not murder.

And how the hell do you get from Hamas being Palestinians (obviously) to my supposedly endorsing the nuking of Gaza?

The financial impact of divestments? Probably zilch.
The educational impact? Priceless.

It seems super on-topic to me. If your belief is actually Palestinians = Hamas = Palestinians then you must believe Gaza should just be nuked. Do you still believe Palestinians = Hamas = Palestinians?

“34,000 innocent Palestinians” – that’s a lie.

There no substitute for reporting from Gaza. And for many people of my generation, there is no substitute for TV as a source of news. Last night I saw one of those advertisements for a charity that showed hungry and abused dogs. The voice-over asked “if you saw a starving animal, what would you do? If you saw an injured animal, what would you do?” These ads are obviously effective fund-raising appeals: they run because they get people to sign up to donate their monthly $19 or whatever. Based on my own, non-scientific viewing sample, images on MSM from Gaza have become less frequent, more fleeting.

(Prior to this year, my local public broadcasting station daily showed news stories from BBC, DW, and France 24 for global audiences. Though they too were carefully edited, I found them a useful addition to the US MSM. But this year they abruptly ceased. Instead we get stories about Japan from NHK 24/7. It is interesting and informative–well worth watching–but not an adequate substitute for what was lost. I wrote a couple of times to my PBS station asking about this, but never go a reply.)

Broadcast time is limited. Time spent on Mike Johnson calling for the National Guard to shut down campus demonstrations is legitimate reporting, but also is not a substitute for reporting on events in Gaza. A recent report from CBS is typical. It’s not worse than other networks. In her interview with the Pope, O’Donnell specifically mentioned starving children in Gaza and Ukraine. So I’m not singling CBS out for criticism. It may well be better than the others.

This CBS report linked below is also noteworthy as an example of reporting we have seen elsewhere that–by the simple omission of the word “some”–can read as suggesting that all, rather than some, Jewish student organizations are opposed to and victims of the demonstrations, rather than a key part of the demonstrations.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/university-protests-us-israel-hamas-war-netanyahu-and-palestinians-react/

Serious movement and healthy changes taking place on college campuses across the nation.Hopeful!

Concrete awareness about the genocide of Palestinians since Oct 7th as a consequence of the disproportionate response by Israel to the heinous acts of some members of Hamas. Millions more have become aware of the historical context of the creation of Israel and the destruction, oppression, violence, death that has taken place for the Palestinians as a result of the horrific actions of the apartheid state of Israel.

The door of facts is wide open and there is no going back to the days of some people ignoring the P/I conflict. With 34,000 innocent Palestinians having been massacred by Israel, 130 hostages still being held by Hamas. Awareness has grown, people taking action yet Israel threatens to ransack Rafah and the violence continues essentially uninterrupted.

Most recent from former IAEA weapons inspector Scott Ritter with George Galloway.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsucQArXUTE

This statement is a call for genocide.

Also : No condemnation of Hamas atrocities, no demand for the release of the hostages, no call for peace.

Mass grave:

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-798509

All people should be free of oppression and violence, including the Palestinian people.

Scott Ritter’s latest. He absolutely thinks Israel will go into Rafah…slaughtering as many Palestinians as they please.

Listen: Ritter/Galloway. Ukraine, Iran, Israel’s massacre of Palestinians

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsucQArXUTE

So does the downvote mean that someone thinks it didn’t happen, there were no Jewish protesters who were arrested? Or does it mean that someone just doesn’t like Jews protesting in favor of Palestinians? Or maybe they think the description of Israel is an apartheid state is wrong? We’ll never know unless someone cares to actually express their thoughts.

Previously? Maybe. But if so it is off-topic, feel free to comment on the above.

“…King wondered aloud what the Palestinian people must think of us, a nation that promises democracy, dignity, and equality but delivers bombs instead… Over the bleached baby bones and jumbled residue of numerous civilizations are written the pathetic words: “Too late.”…” (MLKjr.at Riverside)

How foul to witness jewish supremacist take down our Civil Rights Leaders and handcuff them to AIPAC. Biden is TOO LATE. Rescind his invitation ; invite Mr. Edward Mitchell of CAIR. How can Atlanta adopt CopCity with racist Dr. Robert Friedmann of GILEE???

https://www.thenation.com/article/activism/mlk-vietnam-war-speech-gaza-democracy/

IMO arms have not, will likely not, bring liberation, or a peaceful future worth having. Perhaps you could make a case they might?

Am not blaming Palestinians for resisting. I am suggesting political resistance is a better bet.

In 1988 there was occupation, but no checkpoints, no walls. The force of rocks, rifles or rockets, did not prove effective in pushing back on occupation or in building bridges to allies. The opposite. Now the whole world is paying attention, providing rich opportunity for political activism.

There is no question there has been a sizeable number of Israelis who want what Palestinians have. Its now possibly a majority have lost hope in sharing the land, even believing many Palestinians would consider murdering them.

There has to be a better way.

Sorry for the double post.

Suppose very far left politicians had control of the White House and Congress and most state and local governments and the US was supplying Hamas with enormous amounts of advanced surface to surface rockets which it had used to level many Israeli cities, killing tens of thousands of Israeli civilians, all in the name of Palestinians having the right to defend themselves. Suppose many ordinary Americans, seeing the dead Israeli children and starving Israeli children, were repelled by all this and some college campuses were taken over by Jewish and other students sickened by the US- supported slaughter of Israeli civilians, many of them children. Some of these protestors took control of a few acres of land, forbidding pro- Hamas talk in their liberated zone.

Tell me you would think the free speech rights of Hamas supporters in a few acres given what the US political establishment was supporting would be a major concern.

I find all this hyperventilating about college campuses both hypocritical and ludicrous, There are exceptions to what I just said— if people actually make either antisemitic or anti- Palestinian statements or if someone gets violent, then that is not good and the police should be called ( if there is violence) or the student should be disciplined ( if it is bigoted speech).

Aside from that, in the tiny little protests I have been part of the problem was bullying by a pro- Israel supporter. I saw this and mentioned it a few days ago. Some tall guy, probably in his 40’s, very fit, came up to a smaller elderly woman ( who was Jewish, btw, not that it matters) tore the ceasefire sign out of her hand and challenged her to call the police before walking away. The rest of us were a bit stunned. I was told this had happened before— I don’t know if it was the same guy.

I think the guy was a bully and a jerk and possibly broke the law— at the same time, on a highly emotional issue like this I expect that there is going to be some bad behavior either by protestors or directed at protestors and there will be authority figures like college Presidents or police or politicians who will also abuse their power. The college kids simply aren’t going to be able to do very much compared to what the police and politicians and other authority figures can do.

And yet, while Israel continues to massacre Palestinians, somehow as if by magic, once again, the focus is on the alleged antisemitism of ( often Jewish ) college kids and the threat they pose to free speech. Yeah, free speech is what Israel supporters in the US are famous for supporting.

Did you say Palestinians = Hamas = Palestinians?

What rights do people who disagree with the protestors have? If in 1962 a “Ban the Bomb” demonstrator voiced an opinion there was surely another person nearby who disagreed. The “Ban the Bomb” person has a right to voice their opinion. Do they have a right to take over a campus or any part of a campus and exclude all persons from expressing an opposing opinion? Seems to be there are limits to free speech, especially when your free speech is saying, “my speech is free and your speech is prohibited.”

Students are doing good work. I saw the coverage on NBC’s early afternoon news today: it was disappointing but not surprising . . . that has been their pattern. On the other hand the current episode of the “Intercepted” podcast has a good, informative discussion. Among other things, they reminded me of the negative coverage MLK Jr. got from much of the MSM during his life. Both that podcast, and Juan Cole, reminded me of the actions the government took to suppress student voices regarding the war in Vietnam, including deadly force by the National Guard at Kent State. Even for those of us who lived through those events, the memories recede from front-of-mind after so many years. The speakers on “Intercepted” suggest that U.S. policy regarding Israel/Palestine will change when it is politically expedient, and they suggest that most Americans under 40 already favor such a change. I assume that more Americans by far are exposed to the MSM’s version, but change will come someday.

BIDEN’S INDIFFERENCE TO PALESTINIAN LIVES IS SENDING THE MIDDLE EAST INTO THE ABYSS 

The U.S. dedication to Israel’s war of annihilation has created a tornado of instability and danger. 

https://theintercept.com/podcasts/intercepted/

Again brent is back to try and blame Palestinians for resisting their oppression.
The West Bank has been under a brutal occupation for almost 57 years now. , Palestinians must navigate hostile military checkpoints just to move around their own country and are increasingly relegated to non contiguous Bantustans. In that time over 500,000 illegal under international law settlers have been imported by Israel.
How is any of that right?

Related news:

‘Not like other Passovers’: hundreds of Jewish demonstrators arrested after New York protest seder…Hundreds of Jewish anti-war demonstrators have been arrested during a Passover seder that doubled as a protest in New York, as they shut down a major thoroughfare to pray for a ceasefire and urge the Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, to end US military aid to Israel…The protesters called on Schumer – who is among a minority of Democrats to recently criticize the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu – to stop arming Israel’s military, which relies heavily on US weapons, jet fuel and other military equipment….“We as American Jews will not be used, we will not be complicit and we will not be silent. Judaism is a beautiful, thousands-year-old tradition, and Israel is a 76-year-old colonial apartheid state,” Morgan Bassichis, an organizer with Jewish Voice for Peace, told the crowd.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/not-like-other-passovers-hundreds-of-jewish-demonstrators-arrested-after-new-york-protest-seder

As we write this, Israel has murdered more than 34,000 Palestinians…

Killing combatants is not murder.

Will the Freedom Flotilla Sail to Gaza?
April 24, 2024

Türkiye is under pressure from the U.S. and Israel to block a flotilla from delivering aid and breaking the Gaza blockade, writes Medea Benjamin.

By Medea Benjamin

Peoples Dispatch

“The non-violence training to join the Freedom Flotilla Coalition’s ships to Gaza has been intense. As hundreds of us from 32 countries gathered in Istanbul, we were briefed about what we might encounter on this voyage. “We have to be ready for every possibility,” our trainers insisted.

The best scenario, they said, is that our three ships — one carrying 5500 tons of humanitarian aid and two carrying the passengers — will reach Gaza and accomplish our mission.

Another scenario would be that the Turkish government might cave to pressure from Israel, the U.S. and Germany and prevent the boats from even leaving Istanbul. This happened in 2011, when the Greek government buckled under pressure and 10 boats were stalled in Greece.

With our boats docked in Istanbul today, we fear that Turkish President Erdogan, who recently suffered a crushing blow in local elections, is vulnerable to any economic blackmail the Western powers might be threatening.

Another possibility is that the ships take off but the Israelis illegally hijack these in international waters, confiscate our boats and supplies, and arrest, imprison us and eventually deport us.”

https://consortiumnews.com/2024/04/24/will-the-freedom-flotilla-sail-to-gaza/

West Bank ‘Pogrom’ Shows Apartheid Must Go: Amnesty
April 24, 2024

The human rights group says the prolonged attacks against Palestinians underlines the need to dismantle illegal settlements and end the occupation.

“Amnesty International says the ongoing surge in deadly violence by Israeli settlers and soldiers in the West Bank “underscores [the] urgent need to dismantle apartheid” in the illegally occupied Palestinian territories.

For more than a week now, Israeli settlers have been attacking West Bank Palestinians in towns and villages including Al-Mughayir, Duma, Deir Dibwan, Beitin, and Aqraba, killing at least four people including a child; wounding dozens of others; and destroying homes, vehicles, and other property.

Israel Defense Forces (IDF) troops have either stood and watched or participated in the settler attacks, which the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem and others are calling a “pogrom.”

Amnesty Middle East and North Africa regional director Heba Morayef said:

 “The alarming spike in violence by Israeli settlers against Palestinians across the occupied West Bank in recent days highlights the urgent need to dismantle illegal settlements, end Israel’s occupation of the occupied Palestinian territories, and its longstanding system of apartheid.

The appalling spike in settler violence against Palestinians in recent days is part of a decades-long state-backed campaign to dispossess, displace, and oppress Palestinians in the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, under Israel’s system of apartheid.

Israeli forces have a track record of enabling settler violence and it is outrageous that once again Israeli forces stood by and in some cases took part in these brutal attacks.”

https://consortiumnews.com/2024/04/24/west-bank-pogrom-shows-apartheid-must-go-amnesty/

“And now it’s Passover , the holiday of freedom (Let My People Go!) and the entire Jewish world is sharing the anguish of their families.”

And in the spirit of the Jewish Passover, the holiday of freedom … shouldn’t the Palestinian get/deserve their freedom from decades of zionist oppressive occupation, vicious apartheid, killings/cold-blooded murders … and more? Shouldn’t the zionist regime “Let The Palestinian People Go”?

Good news.

As Juan Cole put it on 4/21 after the vote, “The US House of Representative voted $26 billion for Israel . . . to reward it for its ongoing war crimes . . . It was the House of Representatives’ most decisive vote of confidence in genocide since the Indian Removal Act of 1830.” (juancole.com)

Today he notes that “No President of a Major American University has Deplored the Israeli Destruction of all Gaza Universities.”

see www.juancole.com

Thanks for this. Of course, most Americans won’t know any of this, but it’s good to have it explained.

See also “Student Protesters Are Schooling Their Universities” by Sarah Jones in New York Magazine. Among other things, she critiques some commentary in NYT.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/student-palestine-protesters-school-their-universities.html

A powerful speech from Naomi Klein at yesterday’s “emergency Seder” in New York.

We don’t need or want the false idol of Zionism. We want freedom from the project that commits genocide in our name. Freedom from an ideology that has no plan for peace other than deals with murderous theocratic petrostates next door, while selling the technologies of robo-assassinations to the world.

We seek to liberate Judaism from an ethnostate that wants Jews to be perennially afraid, that wants our children to be afraid, that wants us to believe the world is against us ….

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/apr/24/zionism-seder-protest-new-york-gaza-israel

Here is an exception, albeit from an unusual UK publication. Perhaps they read your observation?

Hundreds of Jewish anti-war demonstrators have been arrested during a Passover seder that doubled as a protest in New York, as they shut down a major thoroughfare to pray for a ceasefire and urge the Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, to end US military aid to Israel.

The 300 or so arrests took place on Tuesday night at Grand Army Plaza, on the doorstep of Schumer’s Brooklyn residence, where thousands of mostly Jewish New Yorkers gathered for the seder, a ritual that marked the second night of the holiday celebrated as a festival of freedom by Jews worldwide.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/not-like-other-passovers-hundreds-of-jewish-demonstrators-arrested-after-new-york-protest-seder

Good point. Also, we should not be confused or distracted by smokescreens:

There are concerns in the humanitarian community that Israel has co-opted the pier plan, which Joe Biden touted as a way to bring about a “massive” increase in aid to Gaza, with one aid official saying the project was in danger of becoming a “smokescreen” for the planned invasion of Rafah.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/officials-voice-concern-over-us-plans-for-gaza-aid-pier

It is not a bloody “famine”. There are trucks full of food within walking distance of all except the disabled and those maimed by Israel. This is a STARVATION – ie GENOCIDE. Do not excuse it!

Here’s what non-violent people who are in the public eye are up against. Medea Benjamin on the aid flotilla preparing to sail to Gaza:

To try to prevent another nightmare like [the Mavi Marmara], potential passengers on this flotilla have to undergo rigorous training. We watched a video of what we might face—from extremely potent tear gas to ear-splitting concussion grenades—and we were told that the Israeli commandos will be armed with weapons with live rounds. Then we divided up into small groups to discuss how best to react, non-violently, to such an attack. Do we sit, stand, or lie down? Do we link arms? Do we put our hands up in the air to show we are unarmed?

https://www.juancole.com/2024/04/will-freedom-flotilla.html

Israel’s Architect of Ethnic Cleansing
April 23, 2024

As Israel’s genocidal assault on Gaza unfolds, the spectre of Yosef Weitz lives on, writes Stefan Moore.

‘Since 1948, Israel has invoked the Holocaust to justify the forced expulsion of Arabs from Palestine to create a Jewish state, but the systematic blueprint for ethnic cleansing was being drawn up years earlier by a Zionist zealot named Yosef Weitz.  In November 1940 – eight years before the founding of the state of Israel – Weitz wrote: 

“It must be clear that there is no room in the country for both peoples … If the Arabs leave it, the country will become wide and spacious for us …. The only solution is a Land…without Arabs. There is no room here for compromises… There is no way but to transfer the Arabs from here to the neighbouring countries … Not one village must be left, not one tribe… There is no other solution.”

Weitz was “a quintessential Zionist colonialist,” writes Israeli historian Ilan Pappé. Born in Russia in 1890 and immigrating to Palestine as a child, Weitz would become the influential head of the Land Settlement Department of the Jewish National Fund (JNF) created to colonise Palestine by purchasing Arab land for the Yishuv (the immigrant Jews in Palestine before 1948).’

https://consortiumnews.com/2024/04/23/israels-architect-of-ethnic-cleansing/

More evidence there is an intention not to let the opportunity to destroy all of Palestine pass. Why else the blind eye to weapon smuggling earlier? As with Hamas. The greater the “success”, the greater the price.

A commonly understood and appreciated political objective would be considerably more effective than are arms in challenging a ruthless army. Especially when the world is paying attention.

With all due respect, Bibi Netanyahu and the Israeli government could and can have a negotiated release of the hostages with a ceasefire.
How many Palestinians must Bibi kill to extract the revenge he demands for the roughly 1,150 Israelis that were killed on October 7th? Is 34,000 plus Palestinian deaths not enough?
This slaughter campaign didn’t start on October 7th, 2023. It started at least 76 years earlier.

Evidence there is an intention not to let the opportunity to destroy all of Palestine pass. Why else the blind eye to weapon smuggling earlier? As with Hamas. The greater the “success”, the greater the price.

A commonly understood and appreciated political objective would be considerably more effective than are arms in challenging a ruthless army. Especially when the world is paying attention.

Phil Weiss, writing just before Passover, doesn’t think that the kidnapped hostages in Gaza deseve even a mention.133 hostages – who knows how many are still alive – our brothers and sisters…starved and abused and neglected. And now it’s Passover , the holiday of freedom (Let My People Go!) and the entire Jewish world is sharing the anguish of their families.

All Ambassadors to the UN and all press secretaries are sent to do the bidding of the president. It is pretty much their job description.

No. I was commenting ad vaccam sanctam.

Whatever. There a facts laid out above in reply to BCG, feel free to comment on those.

IDF Kills 18 Kids Hours After House Votes Billions to Israel
April 22, 2024

The latest strikes on the southern Gaza city bring laws governing U.S. transfers of weaponry into the spotlight, reports Jake Johnson.

By Jake Johnson
Common Dreams

“Hours after the U.S. House approved legislation that would send billions of dollars in additional military aid to Israel, the country’s forces killed nearly two dozen people in Rafah, the southern Gaza city where more than half of the enclave’s population is sheltering.

Gaza health officials said Sunday that the weekend strikes on Rafah — a former “safe zone” that Israel has been threatening to invade for weeks — killed 22 people, including 18 children. The Associated Press (AP) reported that the first of the Israeli strikes “killed a man, his wife, and their 3-year-old child, according to the nearby Kuwaiti Hospital, which received the bodies.”

AP added:

“The woman was pregnant and the doctors saved the baby, the hospital said. The second strike killed 17 children and two women from an extended family.”

Israeli forces have killed more than 14,000 children in Gaza since October, but the Biden administration and American lawmakers have refused to back growing international calls to cut off the supply of weaponry and other military equipment even as U.S. voters express support for an arms embargo.

The measure the House approved on Saturday includes $26 billion in funding for Israel, much of which is military assistance.”



https://consortiumnews.com/2024/04/22/idf-kills-18-kids-hours-after-house-votes-billions-to-israel/

No. I was commenting ad vaccam sanctam.

Biden is a Zionist, so is Blinken.

To have it make sense you have to understand, Americanese. In other words, we’re expected to
” siddown and shuddup for democracy ” , or the government will label you a domestic terrorist for going against the grain.

read into, WAR TAX RESISTANCE
a good way to rise above tax-payers money being used to murder innocent people.