100 Most Recent Comments
Mooser, please don’t think anyone is blaming you or Rachel Maddow personally.
So, Mu-mu, if being Jewish is just a religious thing, how to you get this genetic disease?
And what about converts? Do rabbis inject this disease into them during the conversion???
You know, Maghlawhatever, the same old shit was told to the Algerians and all other colonials.
Also, flippant dismissal by calling people “romantic” is not an answer to the points raised.
“The Koran even permits Muslims to lie.”
Could you tell me where, please. I’ve read the thing a couple of times, but I don’t recall that.
Oh sure, Johnny.
Even without applying the full Zionist entity criteria used for the civilian population of Gaza, one can have a quick look at Azrael laws concerning military service and realize that there aren’t that many civilians among the invaders –even on the pre-67 side of the fence.
Further, when you start an endless war, you make what’s good for the goose good for the gander. Just remember that. When you declare some massacre a “mistake” or “necessary for security reason” just guess what you are justifying in the future.
“When does the future begin?”
I don’t think it’s going to, Mooser. I have been told many times that the future begins tomorrow, or a fortnight on Wednesday, or next year. But when we got to it, it wasn’t. In the Twentieth Century we were given to understand that the Twenty-first Century was the future. But we are well into the Twenty-first Century, and it just turns out to be now.
I say the future is a serious matter, and so, for Byron’s sake, hock and soda water.
“Lebanese Cedars were also namechecked in the Old Testament”
Prior to that Gilgamesh and Enkidu killed the Ogre amongst the Cedars of Lebanon, the Gods killed Enkidu with fever as the Ogre was their watchman, Epic of Gilgamesh, he fears death after losing his lover so religion and all that Jazz.
(Gilgamesh and Enkidu wrestle and then become friends inseparable, its from Iraq)
also the snake steals the plant of immortality while Gilgamesh bathes, its the original press.
“Most Israeli Jews have no idea who they are.”
But they’ve got identity cards to remind them.
“arrived at my majority innocent and ingenuous.”
And you still are, and we love you for it.
… only lose their protection from attack if and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities (Article 51 (3) Protocol
And when they slouch around the oPT,
carrying assault rifles,
spitting on the Palestinians;
is that taking direct part in hostilities?
Or is that part of Jehovah’s plan?
|| Jon66: … Settlers, like any other civilians, cannot be targeted and only lose their protection from attack if and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities … ||
Incorrect. According to jon s, settlers need only be deemed “armed terrorists or criminals” in order to both:
– lose their protection; and
– immediately become eligible for massacre.
Not till Sat. nite.
Jon S wants to do it all nice and legal…and Constitutional.
Abracadabra…Apartheid is legal.
I assume the new law will be in several languages…including German.
Ahhh yes, the Cigar and Sour Mash is fine tonight.
So I guess that hot deal Kushner had for I/P peace and equality is dead?
|| Mooser: “Jon s” should be here soon to tell us the law is simply a harmless expression of national pride … ||
Or he’ll pop in with the latest soccer score.
I remember being in London at a pro Palestine meeting around 2001 and a Jewish lady telling the multitude that Israel could not be boycotted because of the Jewish history in Europe. And Israel has slowly chipped at that cover before blowing it out of the water this week.
An all Israel BDS includes some very juicy targets. El Al, Teva, the diamond wallahs.
Israelis will only desert the occupation when it hurts. It’s tough love, YossI !!
In order to be boycottable Israel needs to be uglier than sin. This new law is magnificent.
It will even be easier to approach Israeli tourists. Pariah status is rather exclusive.
That is incorrect. The legal or illegal conduct of a protected person does not change their protected status.
“Israeli settlements in the Occupied Territories are unlawful under the provisions of international humanitarian law. The Fourth Geneva Convention prohibits the transfer of civilians from the occupying power’s territory into the occupied territory (Article 49 (6)). However, the unlawful status of Israeli settlements does not affect the civilian status of settlers. Settlers, like any other civilians, cannot be targeted and only lose their protection from attack if and for such time as they take a direct part in hostilities (Article 51 (3) Protocol 1).”https://casebook.icrc.org/case-study/amnesty-international-breach-principle-distinction
Presumably whenever a fascist is elected in Europe what’s good for the Israeli goose will be fine for the antisemitic gander and Jews will be denied basic rights.
Another version of this screed appears here on a 2016 article by Mr. Doerfler.
“inappropriate bullying of students on scores of subjects: cheating on tests, taxes, wealth among the student body, politics”
Sounds like somebody didn’t get what they feel $52,050 entitles them to.
There is a reason they left the Haram al sharif to the Waqf in 1967 amidst the messianic joy. The site is as toxic as Ayodhya in India, where Hinduism and Islam regularly shed blood over the Babri Masjid. After The BJP trashed the mosque in 1992,
Muslim taxi drivers in Bombay were dragged from their cars and beaten to death. They are easily identifiable in times of crisis by the lucky number they paint on their vehicles.
I was in Bombay in 2008 when Pakistani militants attacked 2 luxury hotels , soft targets in something to do with Kashmir. The militants were ideological and made a point of visiting the local Chabad house and killing a few Jews. These were easily identifiable by the kippa.
If Israel does do the unthinkable it will be vulnerable Jews across the world who do the dying.
I know a synagogue in Zurich that has round the clock security. The price of militant Zionism and fathomless cruelty.
And Islam will not tolerate anything that changes the status quo.
” Not all that long ago, the Democrats were talking about cooperation with Russia.”
The videos of Hilary and Obama inviting Russia to launder money, meddle in elections, hack into e-mails and buy a candidate are damning, aren’t they?
And remember them insisting all this “cooperation” should be, must be outside normal diplomatic procedure or policy, and consist of a whispered “summit” with no record or transcript?
MOOSER- “Don’t you live in Washington State? Hope is legal here.”
Yes, but increasingly unaffordable. My wife and I associate primarily with my wife’s friends, mostly women from her book club. Mostly retired professionals, well educated and economically secure and, alas, staunch “liberal” Democrats who defend the indefensible and take umbrage at the drop of a hat. I can’t comment to them as freely as I do on Mondoweiss, forced to bite my tongue until it bleeds (that hurts!). If it was just me, that would be another story, but if momma ain’t happy daddy ain’t happy. Besides, rational argument is totally ineffective on those in the iron grip of the logic of irrationality. Intense group solidarity is a tough nut to crack, rarely worth the effort to try. Besides, when the group comes under perceived attack, the wagons are psychologically circled, solidarity increases. I leave you with a quote. Enjoy!
“There seems to be a complete psychotic break with reality in the U.S. as a result of the Trump-Putin summit.Liberals are hysterically calling for impeachment and even so-called radicals are quoting ex-CIA criminal John Brennan and branding Trump a traitor. The good thing about all of this is that the liberals posing as radicals have been exposed and their sentimental pro-empire, pro-American proclivities revealed. Unfortunately, though, the reactions to the summit has also revealed a secret that many of us knew, spoke about but did not dare focus too much attention on it, and that was the reality of how right-wing Black America had become.
The Russians today, the Chinese tomorrow, Putin’s a devil while Benjamin Netanyahu is honored even though his hands drip with the blood of unarmed Palestinians. It is very dangerous, especially for the oppressed, when the rulers know how easy it is to manipulate public opinion.” (Ajamu Baraka) https://www.blackagendareport.com/musings-marginsthe-nato-and-putin-summits-plus-high-crimes-misdemeanors-and-liberal-madness
“Jon s” should be here soon to tell us the law is simply a harmless expression of national pride, and that Palestinians will be even better provided for under the new law. Instead of all the time being uncertain about their place in Israel, they will know it.
MOOSER- “Pssst, “Keith”, listen, when the time comes, I’ve got a couple of underscores for sale to the highest bidder.”
Better save them for yourself and other Democrat warmongers. Not all that long ago, the Democrats were talking about cooperation with Russia. During the 2012 Presidential election campaign, Obama and the rest of the Democratic elite pilloried Mitt Romney for demonizing Russia as our enemy. They described Romney as stuck in an out of date cold war mentality. Some turnabout! What happened, Moosie, why the change?
I link to a Chomsky interview where clips of some of these comments are shown. Most interesting. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/49873.htm
Everything in Israel depends on what the goys think
One comment of yours, @Maghlawatan, in this thread so far (I haven’t reached the foot, yet…) I wholly endorse. The symbolism of the Haram Al Sharif is either underestimated (or not fully appreciated) by many Western politicians and political commentators. If some even-madder-than-most-Temple-Mounters Temple Mounter decides to plug one of the innumerable “archaeological” tunnels that already form a honeycomb beneath the Noble Sanctuary with high explosive and to detonate it, the dogs of Hell will be unleashed throughout Islam. The Zios and their enablers won’t know what has hit them.
There will be serious blow-back elsewhere, too, although the reporting MSM is unlikely to conclude (correctly) – to stray into Biblical metaphor – that, “…, whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap”.
under international law, nationals of an occupying power (or its allies) are not protected by the Fourth Geneva Convention. iow, settlers are not protected civilians.
yossi, i remember years ago when you wrote about this (i think in hebrew) mentioning you were not allowed to discuss it. i wondered what it was about. what a drag to have this hanging over your head for so many years.
“Nearly 1 in 2 Ashkenazi Jews (German, Eastern European or French, but not Russian) is a carrier for at least one Jewish genetic disease.”
Gee, that’s cold; “Jewish genetic disease”? I would never call any disease genetic or otherwise by a religion’s name, but I’m not a doctor. Apparently it’s enough of a thing to have its own name, like “Jewish values” or “Jewish ethics”. Shocked me, but there it is.
“When does the future begin?”
i think because there was a comment by a bataween, district of baghdad, which you answered so this made me think of
Frankenstein in Baghdad by Ahmed Saadawi, for those who still read novels I don’t but I know people who do and they tell me about them.
“Mizrahi Jews are an unfortunate reminder…”
And will be left high and dry by Zionism when the time comes.
“Indeed. Something like this?”
That’s him! He’s the one.
RE: “It seems to us that liberal Zionists will need to put real pressure on Israel, and say, We don’t just want the occupation over. We want this law and other discriminatory laws reversed. That means boycotting the state of Israel for officially and legally discriminating against non-Jewish citizens.” ~ North & Weiss
MY COMMENT: I’m not very optimistic.
JOEL KOVEL (1-20-13):
[EXCERPT] . . . As with everyone I know of in official political culture, [Thomas] Friedman asumes that Israel is a rational actor on the international stage who will obey the calculus of reward and punishment that regulates the conduct of normal states.
The presumption is that if you tell it the truth, and even pull back US support, it will get the message, reflect, and change its ways. But Israel is not a normal state, except superficially. It will make adjustments, pulling back here, co-operating there, making nice when necessary, crafting its message using a powerful propaganda apparatus employing the most up-to-date social science. But this is simply tactical and no more predicts or explains the behavior of the Zionist state than an individual sociopath can be explained by the fact that he obeys traffic signals while driving to the scene of his crime. . .
Israel always needed the protection of the Declaration of Independence. Look! Our progressive Declaration of Independence! We can’t be racist!
Even the old fascists understood that. But after the Jerusalem capitulation by the Yanks, Netanyahu and the settlers are untouchable. Like a balloon seeking altitude they ditch everything they think they don’t need including this figleaf.
The relationship with US Jews who are mostly Reform and Conservative is deteriorating. Israel is now run by medieval or pre medieval Orthodox. An openly discriminatory legal system is not going to fly either in Europe or amongst DC elites. It isn’t even working in Birthright circles.
I would expect the Israeli corporate sector to push back on this but they are probably neutered anyway.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out. Israeli groupthink says history is over.
History says it is not.
“Hegemony is a tricky concept and provokes muddled thinking. No victories are permanent or final. Hegemony has constantly to be worked on, maintained, renewed, revised. Excluded social forces, whose consent has not been won, whose interests have not been taken into account, form the basis of counter-movements, resistance, alternative strategies and visions …and the struggle over a hegemonic system starts anew. They constitute what Raymond Williams called “the emergent” –and the reason why history is never closed but maintains an open horizon towards the future.”
Lebanese Cedars were also namechecked in the Old Testament
I remember being in a cafe in Tel Aviv one afternoon . There was an Egyptian soap opera on and maybe 20 guys speaking Hebrew watching.
I have met a few Israeli taxi drivers who love Um Kulthum. That would horrify Naftali Bennett.
“”In a rare move, archaeologists and curators at the Israel Museum in Jerusalem rushed to put the piece on public display. A detailed report is set for publication in the June edition of the journal Near Eastern Archaeology.”
Typical zionism. The cult that will dig through and throw away 15 layers of history to find the one layer that may be Jewish
|| Mooser: Yes, Israel must now, finally, come up with a correct and unalterable definition of “Jewish”. Which can be applied in a binary way (Jewish/not).
And cannot be applied on a graduated scale (not/less/ Jewish/ more/ most). … ||
Zionists on MW already seem to know who is Jewish, who is not Jewish and who is not “Jewish enough”. Israel just needs to take a walk down to ZioHQ to get the answers it’s looking for.
Annie, thank you for these eloquent words and for your gift a few hours ago! We are, as always, in your debt.
That comes after the Al-Aqsa Mosque is demolished and the Temple rebuilt in its place.
|| Boris: … if one of your grandparents is/was Jewish – then Israel recognizes you as a Jew. … ||
And why wouldn’t it? Israel is a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” primarily of and for people who:
– undergo a religious conversion to Judaism; or
– are descended from someone who underwent a religious conversion to Judaism.
Yes, movable ones.
For Israel, Jewish & Democracy no longer answer.
The “nation state of the Jewish people” has confirmed the divide.
It will prove a very uncomfortable stretch for Beinart,
between his Zionism and his putative decency.
The Liberal-Zionist oxymorons are coming home to roost.
But without “religion” how on earth can we tell who is and isn’t Jewish?(And don’t say “DNA”,
But it is! I told you earlier how 23andme determined that I am a Jew without me telling them anything about my religion or a lack of one.
I found out all people have DNA, not just Jews.)
Yes, Mu-mu, they do. Animals, like guyn, also have it. And trees – all living organisms have DNA. Even antisemites! And this DNA tells who is Jewish and who is not.
So how Jewish is Jewish enough for Israel?
I believe if one of your grandparents is/was Jewish – then Israel recognizes you as a Jew. It is no different than membership in Native American tribes – they all have different acceptable thresholds of percentage of tribal blood for their members.
Akram Al-Wa’ra, thank you for your amazing efforts to bring the news and videos from the great march of return. when you say you had never been able to travel to Gaza before, it seems like one of the cruelest things about the occupation, to separate palestinians from each other so permanently. i had not really considered that personal aspect of your reporting and even though it had to be under these conditions, i’m so grateful you were able to go there.
and the personal interviews, especially with the cyclist Alaa al-Dali (who lost his leg and what that meant for his dream) — really all of the people, seeing their faces and hearing their voices. thank you — and be careful!
i really can’t think of a better value for our donations to mondoweiss than to support more reporting by palestinians in palestine. some of the best reporting i’ve read on the march anywhere on the web. thanks Akram, mondoweiss and everyone who donates!
Ah, that old chestnut: the worse it gets the better it will be. Maybe – or maybe not – you will be proven right in the long run. Easy enough for you and me to argue the point. In the meantime, the people who have everything at stake are rightly upset. Palestinians know what this means to them right now and in the foreseeable future.
@Mahglawatan – yes. Israel is an Ashkenazi invention that thrives on the destruction of Jewish communities across the Mediterranean basin and beyond. Mizrahi Jews are an unfortunate reminder that Israel is still in the Middle East and a lot closer to Arab culture than they would like to believe. Israeli Hebrew is a modern European language invented in Eastern Europe by European Jews as a Jewish Esperanto. Nothing could be further from Mizrahi Jews, Arabs and the Middle East. Tchernichovsky and Bialik would be proud.
Palestinians are 20% of Israelis so they should have had 20% of ministers over the last 70 years.
How many Palestinian ministers has Israel had ?
A Mr A Hitler had a standard definition of Jewishness. I bet the Zionists will come back to that.
You are too much of a romantic. You need to get real :)
Northern Ireland is similar to Israel. The settlers created a clusterfuck. Any solution has to include them. There is no going back to t minus 1.
Maybe a lot of Israelis will leave anyway. Especially if they lose their economic privileges.
“Major Escalation in Gaza: Israel Launches Massive Attack After Hamas Snipers Fire at Troops”
I think too many politicians are afraid of the lobby so the pressure will have to come from below.
People have to organise.
Israel is not going to make it. It only takes 10% of a population to know something for it to become accepted
It was apparent long time ago, that Israel should be boycotted, and BDS should not apply ONLY for the illegal settlements. If Israel refuses to end the occupation, the land theft, and if it continues to kill unarmed civilians, there is only one way to make them understand it is wrong – BDS. 60 years is a long time for any people to suffer this way.
Democracy means giving hope to all people, and not only some.
Israel is a democracy in name only.
With this new law passed Israel is officially an apartheid nation.
Maybe I’m the only one on this site who welcomes this law. I see this as one more nail in the coffin of Zionism, since it further exposes Zionism for what it has always been, while rendering its self-delusional, liberal version to the dustbin of history (if it’s not already there) where it belongs.
Before we can have true progress, we must have complete honesty. Seen this way, this law is a positive step in that direction.
Israel has a form of terminal cancer. Liberal Zionists think it is just a bit under the weather.
Sorry I hadn’t noticed Talkback’s comment. One thing that strikes me when it comes to these definitions is how hard it is to exclude, unless by express stipulation, the possibility that someone who is an anti-S should also be a Zionist – perhaps thinking that Jews in Europe or America, alien lands, are a destructive force but that Jews in the Holy Land, running a Jewish country in the right place, are fine. Mr. Orban gives the impression of thinking along those lines.
“Just the thing Zionism needs.”
Just imagine the sense of security and belonging those who are 100% Jewish will feel. Don’t want to leave them out. Not that anybody ever could, of course. The visage of a Hittite Prince commands respect everywhere.
Gaza sees no ‘hope’, the Israeli army has just begun a pre-planned, sustained bombing campaign.
They want the word to get out and around the world fast. Look at the timing. Israel would rather receive censure for bombing Gaza than it would for its new apartheid bill – our politicians will fall in line.
Yes, Israel must now, finally, come up with a correct and unalterable definition of “Jewish”. Which can be applied in a binary way (Jewish/not).
And cannot be applied on a graduated scale (not/less/ Jewish/ more/ most).
That’ll be easy. If there’s one thing all Jewish people abhor, it’s any discussion of who is more or less or authentically or in-authentically Jewish. It’s strictly tribal ubiquity with us.
Netanyahu is all triumphalist over this law but he isn’t strategic.
BDS has been blessed.
Until now Israeli capitalism has avoided any association with the settlement project. The big companies are all targets now
So are Israel bonds
It’s time to start pushing the investment community. They HATE uncertainty and tail risk.
Well and truly stated!!!
“But have no fear – your hide is safe.”
Nobody’s “hide” is safe, “Boris”. As you say:
“Obviously, the converts are not the descendants of Hebrews. But the percentage of Jewish converts is very low. This is btw one of the reasons Reform Judaism is not recognized in Israel is because they make conversion way too easy.” “Boris”
So how Jewish is Jewish enough for Israel?
Who cares? The whole Israeli economy is now a valid target.
They got the US sponsored guns but we got the numbers
It’s gonna cost you $52,050 a year to drop your kids off at the Riverdale School. Same price a year, K-12, but $…050? What’s the fifty bucks for, a subway pass?
“Doerfler is a phony and a fraud, and etc.” “Riverdale parent, lawyer”
“He did enormous damage to many of his students over the years, diminishing their own self-confidence and willingness to express their opinions.”
Some of them still thank him for teaching them to avoid being ‘known as a fool’, not just thought a fool, and others still think gratefully of all the libel and slander he’s helped them avoid spewing.
I love that accent. Jad wallahi
It’s also a Nakba of Mizrahi culture. Most Israeli Jews have no idea who they are. They get this fake history in school (taught by ignorant teachers, often on the left, especially in Beersheba) and paranoia in the Army. They are easy picking for demagogues.
“The true victims of ethnic cleansing are one million Jews who were driven out of Arab countries by those Arab governments who care so much about your precious Palestinians… If only you had eyes to see you would realise you are a shill for fascism and Arab colonialism. You have swallowed lies and misinformation about Israel apartheid when the true practitioners of apartheid against women and minorities are the Arabs, including the Palestinians” “Bataween”
The prime minister then begins to speak about the Iranian regime… before he is interrupted by an unidentified person off-screen who says, “It will disappear with the help of God.”
“You said it. From your mouth to God,” Netanyahu says in response as the clip ends.
Breaking FAKE News: ‘Netanyahu Threatens to Wipe Iran Off the Map, with the Help of God!’
Sound familiar? Remember when Ahmadinejad supposedly ‘Threatened to Wipe Israel Off the Map’…
The Iranian president was quoting an ancient statement by Iran’s first Islamist leader, the late Ayatollah Khomeini, that “this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time,” just as the Shah’s regime in Iran had vanished.
Now They Tell Us: Iran Didn’t Actually Threaten to Wipe Israel Off the Map
A brilliant coup for Zionism. Now every Jew in Israel will be nervous: Is he (or she) Jewish, I mean really?
Can he prove it?
Is he Jewish enough?
Who is more Jewish than him, who is less?
And who is ‘passing’ as a Jew, and must be ‘outed’?
Just the thing Zionism needs.
“The past never ends”
Oh, I gave up on the past ending years ago. What I want to know is: “When does the future begin?”
“young Jews not knowing “their own language”
Look what happened to me. When I was a little chicken-soup of a boy with ears like twin spinnakers, my Mom would drop into Yiddish (or even more frustrating, a Yiddish-English patois) whenever she talked with relatives about grown-up stuff on the phone. As a result, I received none of the knowledge traditionally passed down by eavesdropping, and arrived at my majority innocent and ingenuous.
Yup, a bunch of stale crackers who try to pass themselves off as matzohs.
“The ‘ultimate deal’? For Israel, maybe. We Palestinians will never accept it”
By Hanan Ashrawi
“A US-backed deal to bring ‘peace’ to the Middle East would just legitimise Israeli aggression – and oppress my people further.”
Thu 19 Jul 2018, The Guardian.
“our nation, language and flag”
“…the place where Arabs are at the most democratically secure is in Israel. ”
The entity known as “Israel,” i.e., west of the green line, is not and has never been a democracy. It is and has always has been an ethnocracy, i.e., a political structure in which the state apparatus is appropriated by a dominant ethnic group to further its interests, power and resources. In short, apartheid.
Hendrik Verwoerd, then prime minister of South Africa and the architect of South Africa’s apartheid policies, 1961: “Israel, like South Africa, is an apartheid state.” (Rand Daily Mail, November 23, 1961)
Jacobus Johannes Fouché, South African Minister of Defence during the apartheid era, compared the two states and said that Israel also practiced apartheid. (Gideon Shimoni (1980). Jews and Zionism: The South African Experience 1910-1967. Cape Town: Oxford UP. pp. 310–336. ISBN 0195701798.
“Former Foreign Ministry director-general invokes South Africa comparisons. ‘Joint Israel-West Bank’ reality is an apartheid state”
EXCERPT: “Similarities between the ‘original apartheid’ as it was practiced in South Africa and the situation in ISRAEL [my emphasis] and the West Bank today ‘scream to the heavens,’ added [Alon] Liel, who was Israel’s ambassador in Pretoria from 1992 to 1994. There can be little doubt that the suffering of Palestinians is not less intense than that of blacks during apartheid-era South Africa, he asserted.” (Times of Israel, February 21, 2013)
Video: Israeli TV Host Implores Israelis: Wake Up and Smell the Apartheid
In its 2015 Country Report on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, published in 2016, the U.S. Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor acknowledges the “institutional and societal discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel.”
“Construction, Not Destruction”
“While Israeli Arabs constitute 20 percent of the population, Arab communities’ jurisdictions occupy just 2.5 percent of the state’s land area, and the process of approving new construction in Arab towns takes decades.” (Haaretz Editorial, April 4, 2017)
Ronnie Kasrils, a key player in the struggle against the former South African apartheid regime, minister for intelligence and a devout Jew: “The Palestinian minority in Israel has for decades been denied basic equality in health, education, housing and land possession, solely because it is not Jewish. The fact that this minority is allowed to vote hardly redresses the rampant injustice in all other basic human rights. They are excluded from the very definition of the ‘Jewish state’, and have virtually no influence on the laws, or political, social and economic policies. Hence, their similarity to the black South Africans [under apartheid].” (The Guardian, 25 May 2005)
Baruch Kimmerling, Professor of Sociology, Hebrew University, Jerusalem: “The laws of Israel have become the laws of a master people and the morality that of lords of the land.”
The entity known as “Israel” also differentiates between citizenship and nationality, i.e., “Israeli” nationality does not exist, only Jews and non-Jews, and each citizen carries an appropriate identity card. While the implications of this absurdity for discrimination and racism against non-Jews are obvious, it has been upheld by Israel’s Supreme Court.
The effect of its blatantly racist “Citizenship Law” and more than fifty other restrictions Arab citizens have to endure is well expressed by writer and Knesset member, Ahmed Tibi:
“…dutifully defining the state as ‘Jewish and democratic,’ ignores the fact that in practice ‘democratic’ refers to Jews, and the Arabs are nothing more than citizens without citizenship.” (Ma’ariv, 1.6.2005)
70 years after it came about, the entity known as “Israel” is now more dependent on the U.S. for its survival than it has ever been (as Algeria was dependent on France, Rhodesia on Britain and the Belgian Congo on Belgium) and Jewish immigration is in free fall, emigration is soaring and “Israel” is increasingly viewed around the world as a fascistic, racist pariah.
Including their ancestors, Palestinians have lived continuously between the River and the Sea for about 15,000 years and now outnumber Jews. In the long run, the Zionist entity will prove to be another blip.
Is this really somethng new and substantive for Israel or, for that matter, the U.S.? As yahu said, it’s the culmination of more than 100 years of Zionist efforts. It didn’t suddenly just happen. As for the U.S., Bush Jr. signed off on the idea that Israel could take more of the occupied territories (something his father refrained from doing), and on the slaughter of Palestinians. Obama did the same de facto. Trump is more crude and obvious . . . he moved the embassy, for example, so that’s a change but not a substantive one. I don’t see much hope for a better life for Palestinians, or for moral redemption for the U.S. on this issue.
Most Israelis were not around in 1948 so it counts as sins of the fathers
Forget the biblical stuff and the fathers. The sons are squatting without a formal permission from the owners of the land, period. Being born somewhere does not give automatic citizenship.
(As for “sins of the fathers”, still irrelevant anyway, take a gander at the current generation, more Nazi-like than anything before .)
Willy Brandt went to Warsaw
How dare you? Brandt escaped Nazi Germany and he fought against it in the war. He was a real resistant. He went to lead and represent an enemy and successor of the occupiers of Poland, not out of the same Nazi state. As different as invader-“Israel” to a restored Palestine.
… in say 1990 they could have changed . I know Palestinians who were ready to live together with them. I know Palestinians who believed in the peace process and moved back to Ramallah to make the state work.
And I know a lot of deluded people everywhere, too. Also Frenchmen, Norwegians, Greeks, Croats and Americans named Pétain, Quisling, Tsolakoglou, Pavelic and Kushner, so what?
The point is that only a bona fide plebiscite, including all Palestinians anywhere in the world and excluding all invaders and offspring thereof, from the date of declared hostile intent, counts as the formal will of the owners of the country –a plebiscite done in the absence of any occupation or other duress. Good luck with that.
In the absence of self-determination, you’ll always get a national liberation war sometime. Even if some good people delay it by being “reasonable”, it always ends up there, ask any Africans. Or in a successful genocide, ask American natives.
The JaboGurions know this; you don’t seem to.
At the end of the day the Beitar Jews have no other home
What rot. Almost all have at least one other citizenship, or the right to one, and the US has already agreed and guaranteed to take up all who don’t. And if they are “Betar”, good luck giving them Palestinian citizenship anyway. My humble prediction is that the current suicidal fanaticism on the invader side will expand yet a lot more by the time push comes to shove.
If you don’t have the political forces…
you build them –you start by weeding out your collaborators. That’s what recent history of WW2 and decolonization should have taught all.
” There is nothing about religion in this bill.”
But without “religion” how on earth can we tell who is and isn’t Jewish?(And don’t say “DNA”, I found out all people have DNA, not just Jews.)
How can you tell who is Jewish, except religion? And more importantly, how can we tell who isn’t Jewish in spite of their claims, conversion, ability to speak Hebrew and Orthodox religious practices?
“Does your personal heritage permits you to lie that much”
I’m fairly sure it was Shafi’i of Gaza who said that if the state of enmity between the sects became intense one was authorised to practise “protective dissimulation” in respect of other Muslims, the Wahhabis like to claim it is a Shia innovation it isn’t,
If i had any advise i would read the whole of The Bee, Muhammad Assad translation, but of course the reason for takiya, the necessity of takiya is obvious, the intense prohibition on lying which lies at the heart of Islamic ethics… obviously.
“The argument that BDS should not apply to Israel itself is now dead in the water.”
However, “the argument” has never been valid.
Sheqer: “Can someone please remind them that democracy does not exist in the Arab world …”
Your first lie.
Sheqer: “… and the place where Arabs are at the most democratically secure is in Israel.”
Your second lie.
Sheqer: “The Koran even permits Muslims to lie.”
Your third lie.
Does your personal heritage permits you to lie that much, Sheqer?
Israel so desperately wants to believe it’s not located in the Middle East but in a make-believe land between Europe and America. This palaver about Hebrew is a smokescreen. This is not about preserving Hebrew and Jewish identity. If so, the Israelis would constrain the ubiquitous use of English and uphold its “national language” instead.
You can manage very well in Israel without one word of Hebrew. It’s much harder to get by without Spanish in Miami (and parts of other American cities) than without Hebrew in Israel. In Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, all official (roads, govt offices etc) and most commercial signage are in English. Some stores have no Hebrew at all.
Eradicating Arabic is just one more piece of the Nakba against Palestinian life in their homeland.
Hope is legal here
Makes sense, Mooser. Did you expect the government bandits to ban all the hopeful boobies who bring them to government?
Arabs complaining about democracy? Not hardly Emek, but the death of it. israel has claimed over and over ad nauseum that it is the only democracy in the middle east, repeatedly, on paper and on video – so much so that its enablers (u.s., u.k, u.n., etc.) also refer to it as a democracy so it’s not too surprising that arabs and jews alike are reacting to the death of it, phony and fake as it was.
Don’t believe any words that come off the tips of Emek’s fingers or toes or whatever this little cheese keyboards with.
The talmud permits the rape of children.
The talmud permits murder. The bible does too and even provides that lucky jew with a sanctuary city to run to after the deed is done.
“israel” is almost becoming the bastion of religious tolerance as saudi arabia.
|| Emet: Arabs complaining about democracy? Tibi and Odeh with their crocodile tears is something to see. Can someone please remind them that democracy does not exist in the Arab world … ||
Tibi and Odeh are Israelis living in Israel. Last I heard, Israel isn’t the “Arab world”.
But you can always count on a Zionist to:
– boast that the religion-supremacist “Jewish State” of Israel is a “moral beacon”, a “light unto the nations”, a “progressive paradise” and a “Western-style democracy”; and then
– defend the religion-supremacist “Jewish State” of Israel by pointing out that it’s not quite as bad as Saudi Arabia, Mali, African “hellholes”, China, 19th-century America, Russia, Syria and Egypt.
|| … The Koran even permits Muslims to lie. … ||
So…who or what permits Zionists to lie as easily and profusely as they do?
Doerfler is a phony and a fraud. His diatribe about what an open, encouraging “teacher” he was is utter nonsense. He was a dreadful “teacher” who bullied, publicly humiliated, and ridiculed any student who dared to disagree with him. He was the antithesis of what he delusionally or dishonestly claims to be in his (iv) above. He mocked his students publicly about politics, their families (you know – the ones who paid his salary and provided him with a platform he didn’t deserve), the school of which he was a member, efforts to curb cheating in school – you name it and he attacked and embarrassed them – in front of their peers. Over and over and over again. That was his well-known style, and it’s incredible to many of us that he was not fired 20 years ago, as he should have been. He did enormous damage to many of his students over the years, diminishing their own self-confidence and willingness to express their opinions. He should never have been permitted to “teach” and it is excellent that he is no longer there.
If the fundis get into the compound they will destroy the 3rd most holy site in Islam. And that will kick off WW3.
It’s a big step towards the end of international law, that optimistic concept which arose from the deaths of 60 million in WWII.
“The argument that BDS should not apply to Israel itself is now dead in the water”
Agree 100%. Every and anything produced by Israel and sold in the West should be boycotted by consumers in the West.The message must also go out as never before that any interraction of any kind with this racist colony be it trading,cultural,sporting,tourism or academic is an endorsement of Zionist Apartheid. Yes it will punish those few remaining Israeli Jews who despite the right wing takeover have stood up for true Jewish values and Palestinian rights and it will hurt those Palestinians who have had no choice but to take on Zionist work in order to feed themselves and their families but as with South Africa that is the price which will have to be paid.
Start with the basics. Visit the BDS website to get information and updates on Israeli produced goods and on Western companies operating in Israel or supplying Israel. Boycott these in any way that you can . On a day to day basis eg check when shopping in supermarkets if goods are produced in Israel especially fruits of any kind and go for the non Israeli varieties. Encourage your family and friends to do the same. For those people you know who who are planning holidays in Israel quietly point out that they will be holidaying in an Apartheid country where there is state organised discrimination and oppression of over 20% of its citizens.
Write to your political representatives to query their views on this Apartheid state system and make it clear that they risk your vote and the votes of your family and friends if they fail to speak out against it or fail to support actions against it in your elected assemblies.
Remember little acorns.
As a Riverdale parent of three students who graduated more than a decade ago, I am delighted that FINALLY, Joel Doerfler is gone. He should have been fired years ago for his relentless, childish, inappropriate bullying of students on scores of subjects: cheating on tests, taxes, wealth among the student body, politics – you name it. His style was never one of encouraging open, critical dialogue – rather, his chosen method of “teaching” consisted of sarcastic criticism, public humiliation, ridicule, personal attacks, and tearing apart any student who dared to disagree with Doerfler’s own beliefs. He did a great deal of damage to many young (and sometimes, intimidated) students over the years, and should never have been a “teacher”. Good riddance – I only wish this had happened 20 years ago.
All I can say is .. fuck! People are starting to talk about us with the “Minority” sense, Europeans did it again. The American example on Palestine, we are minority now …
So Jared Kushner (as criticized by Hamas) blames Hamas for the plight of the Palestinians (you are supposed to forget that he gave the occupier Jerusalem on a golden platter). He is just like his father in law, who expects you to forget “wouldn’t” and think it was “would”.
If devious Kushner and Hamas vanished, the Palestinian people might stand a better chance.
I mean the minority within Israel. Of course if you go with the one state narrative, then it will be “majority”. It is disgusting that they keep getting away with pretending to be the victim, while in reality they are villains.
Ditching arabic is a sign that Israel has no interest in engaging with any of its neighbours. Or with the cultural history of its non Ashkenazi citizens. So , so short sighted.
People with no roots are much easy to manipulate.
Etta Ankri is a Tunisian Jew who was born in Israel. This is her version of a song by Khaled, an Algerian. Half of the Jews in Israel originated in the Middle East .
They mention ‘hostility or prejudice against Jews’ and seem to treat that phrase as their definition – in a slightly oblique way, I agree.
Obviously they define antisemitism as “hostility to or prejudice against Jews” (as such) which is the only rational definition. We know hasbara’s attempt to conflate hatred towards group of humans with criticism (or even hatred) towards a state and its policies. It’s typically fascist to conflate humans with a state and to even put the latter above the former.