Unbelievable that Walt and Mearsheimer have been banned from speaking in Chicago. Again proving the profs' argument about the strength of the Israel lobby. Where is Alan Dershowitz? Even he ought to decry this censorship, which is only forcing the discussion of an important issue underground-ish, to the blogosphere. I guess that is what the lobby wants. If the Global Council in Chicago dignifies the argument, well, then it could get on to the cover of Time. As one of the commenters says on the site linked above, this sort of behavior just builds the backlash.
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While it is unfortunate that their speech has been canceled, it's hardly a "banning."
Someone else could very easily step in and offer to sponsor the speech.
another Philip Weiss or just Philip Weiss–I have a question. Why do you think someone else doesn't step up immediately if only to clarify their commitment to freedom of speech? I'm not being snotty; I really want to know what you think.
These are Pyrrhic victories. In situations like these, the issue is much bigger than Israel or the Lobby. Having any special interest sabotaging this kind of events with prominent academics (remember Tony Judt a few months ago) is outrageous and will alarm many who might otherwise sympathise with Israel or who don't even give a damn about politics at all. This is so anti-American that there is no chance it won't backfire, sooner or later.
Once again, this only reveals the short-sightedness of a great part of the fanatically-pro-Israel-no-matter-what Jewish Elite in this country. And it strengthens my thesis that what is today perceived (perversely) as good for Israel has become bad and dangerous for Jews everywhere.
If public reaction to this kind of thing threatens to get out of hand, maybe Dan Fleshler could start a "Jews for free speech" petition.
I think your all missing the point. Chicago World Affairs Council is a contemptible body of elite opinion, and I happen to know through a very good mutual friend of mine and Mearsheimer that they've despised him long before his article, basically ever since he was right and they were wrong about the Iraq War in 2002.
"These opponents of the event argued that the two political scientists could only address the Chicago Council if someone from the opposing side, "
why?
“such as Abraham Foxman of the Anti-Defamation League, concurrently appeared on stage with the authors."
aaigh! I guess you weren't counting on armenian participation
This is what's known as "The Heckler's Veto." The principle is that if ANYONE in the audience could possibly find the views expressed at the event objectionable, then instead of allowing that person their inalienable right to leave you simply cancel the event entirely. Sometimes a threat of violence is involved, as when the Nazis used it. During showings of the anti-war movie, "All Quiet On The Western Front" they would cause commotions by releasing mice in the theatre, etc. The principle is the same.
As Another Phil Weiss says, why does nobody?
Have organizers tried? Is this real, or a self produced myth? Hard to believe there's no other space neither in Chicago nor in New York? Simply a problem in communications?
Bill Pearlman, you seem to be from Chicago?
What do you think?
Actually Leander I spent 20 yrs in Chicago. ( great city ) Never heard of the Global council and I was ususally pretty involved in this kind of stuff. Look, I don't really give a shit one way or another but to put forth the idea that two guys who just got a major book deal are being censored is a litttle disingenuos don't you think. The same way I can't turn on my TV without seeing Jimmy Carters mug. Has I understand it they wanted an opposing viewpoint, Make it more like a debate. What's wrong with that.
bill. can i come to your synagogue and read from the new testament? So there's an opposing point of view
Well. Lester, the day I can come to your stormfront meetings and talk. I suppose so.
Hate to be in agreement with Stormtropper Pearlman, but he's right on this one. Enough cries of "those unbelievably powerful jews won't let me criticize Israel." It's really not an issue any more, but it is handy in getting press and grabbing the victim podium. If Walt and Mearsheimer want to present their work they should indeed debate others. These men are academics and that is how it is done in academia. If they are so confident of their arguments it would be a boon to their publicity efforts.
David, you wrote:
"If public reaction to this kind of thing threatens to get out of hand, maybe Dan Fleshler could start a `Jews for free speech' petition."
I am sometimes mystified by your comments and don't usually ask for an explanation, but would very much like to understand this one. I assume you are being reflexively dismissive and a bit insulting. But I would deeply appreciate it if you could explain precisely what it is you are trying to disparage here.
Warm regards,
Dan
I'm sorry you didn't get it Dan. Indeed I was being ironic.
You see, you were the one who famously tried (behind the scenes) to get Phil Weiss to desist from publicly discussing the power of the Zionist lobby. Very much like the folks who contacted the Chicago Council on Global Affairs, I imagine.
Now imagine if such a person were to claim to be FOR an open American discussion about Zionism. It could only be seen as a hypocritical exercise in damage control.
(By the way, although your mystification was feigned, I have a genuine question for you: are you honestly surprised when your Judeocentrism creates hostility in your fellow citizens? What do you imagine an appropriate response to your intervention with Phil Weiss would have been?)
pearlman- please come any time to one of my stormfront meetings. most of those guys appeear to know more about judaism than a rabbi. They are basically jews considering how much they think about them.
at any rate, Mr Weiss has gone over the "opposing point of view" tactic before. No one one wants to hear the dershowitz spiel just so they can hear what they came to hear
Email to Jeff Fager (executive producer of CBS '60 Minutes'):
Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 03:04:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: For Jeff Fager
Dear Mr. Fager,
I would like to know if '60 Minutes' has a segment in the works to interview respected political science professors John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt about their soon to be released book (it will be available on September 4th, 2007) which was expanded from their paper ( link to tinyurl.com
) on the pro-Israel lobby and how it pushed US to attack Iraq and is doing similar to get US to attack Iran. If '60 Minutes' does not plan to do a segment about the Mearsheimer/Walt book, I would like to know why (I have a pretty good idea already though). The following currently can be found at www.amazon.com after doing an author search there for 'Mearsheimer':
Editorial Reviews
Book Description
The Israel Lobby,” by John J. Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago and Stephen M. Walt of Harvard’s John F. Kennedy School of Government, was one of the most controversial articles in recent memory. Originally published in the London Review of Books in March 2006, it provoked both howls of outrage and cheers of gratitude for challenging what had been a taboo issue in America: the impact of the Israel lobby on U.S. foreign policy.
Now in a work of major importance, Mearsheimer and Walt deepen and expand their argument and confront recent developments in Lebanon and Iran. They describe the remarkable level of material and diplomatic support that the United States provides to Israel and argues that this support cannot be fully explained on either strategic or moral grounds. This exceptional relationship is due largely to the political influence of a loose coalition of individuals and organizations that actively work to shape U.S. foreign policy in a pro-Israel direction. Mearsheimer and Walt provocatively contend that the lobby has a far-reaching impact on America’s posture throughout the Middle East—in Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, and toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflict—and the policies it has encouraged are in neither America’s national interest nor Israel’s long-term interest. The lobby’s influence also affects America’s relationship with important allies and increases dangers that all states face from global jihadist terror.
Writing in The New York Review of Books, Michael Massing declared, “Not since Foreign Affairs magazine published Samuel Huntington’s ‘The Clash of Civilizations?’ in 1993 has an academic essay detonated with such force.” The publication of The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy is certain to widen the debate and to be one of the most talked-about books of the year.
About the Author
John J. Mearsheimer is the R. Wendell Harrison Distinguished Service Professor of Political Science and the co-director of the Program on International Security Policy at the University of Chicago. He has published several books, including The Tragedy of Great Power Politics.
Stephen M. Walt is the Belfer Professor of International Affairs at the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University, and was academic dean of the Kennedy School from 2002 to 2006. He is the author of Taming American Power: The Global Response to U.S. Primacy, among other books.
——————————————————————————–
Product Details
Hardcover
Publisher: Farrar, Straus and Giroux (September 4, 2007)
Language: English
——————————————————-
THE HIGH COST OF SUBSERVIENCE TO ISRAEL (by Paul Findley):
link to itszone.co.uk
See the following URL for more about the 'A Clean Break' as discussed by Bamford on pages 261-269/318-321 of 'A Pretext for War' (the paperback version of 'A Pretext for War' includes an additional chapter about the AIPAC espionage case which the pro-Israel biased US media is not covering either for the most part – neither is the BBC!):
http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=28769
Bamford also had the following 'Iran: The Next War' article for Rolling Stone magazine which mentions the AIPAC espionage case as well:
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/10962352/iran_the_next_war
Brit MP and Father of Commons Tam Dalyell exposed the 'JINSA crowd' initially in 'Vanity Fair' and via the articles linked at the bottom of the following URL:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/13/179248
Even Colin Powell conveyed for Washington Post editor Karen DeYoung's new bio book about him that the 'JINSA crowd' was in control of the Pentagon – one can look up 'Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs'/JINSA in the index:
A War for Israel? Colin Powell seems to think so:
http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=61128
Prominent Mideast analyst associated with AIPAC:
link to itszone.co.uk
BBC: The War Party (if only Americans could see such a program!)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4667039539703585825&q=%22The+War+Party%22
PS: Please take a look at the exchange with 9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton via the 'What Motivated the 9/11 Hijackers?' link at the upper left of the following URL which includes a transcript of the exchange with Hamilton:
The Gorilla in the Room is US Support for Israel
http://representativepress.blogspot.com/2005/08/gorilla-in-room-is-us-support-for.html
SCANDAL: 9/11 Commissioners Bowed to Pressure to Suppress Main Motive for the 9/11 Attacks:
http://representativepress.blogspot.com/2006/09/reviews-of-without-precedent-inside.html
You might also be interested in viewing the following youtube video short which has the moderator of the terrorism 'expert' panel trying to cut off the 'Q & A' at the Los Angeles Times Festival of Books at UCLA this past April before the main motivation for 9/11 was conveyed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7EB1FxENxQ
Additional at the following URL:
http://www.warwithoutend.co.uk/zone0/viewtopic.php?t=39590
Israeli Interrogators in Iraq:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3863235.stm
David,
You've read me wrong, yet again. You can find out why I think a public discussion of the lobby's power is critically important in my most recent post at Realistic Dove: "Prayers for Mearsheimer and Walt" at link to realisticdove.org
You'd welcome to comment directly, as I don't think my readers are familiar with you. You might even find yourself in the unnerving position of agreeing with me.
That 2003 BBC TV documentary on the neocons that NOMOREWARSFORISRAEL linked to has some revealing glimpses into the personalities involved, particularly in the section where it explicitly tackles the Zionist connection. (Meyrav Wurmser on the dual loyalty issue: "Most of us — all of us — are pro-Israel, some of us more 'firstly' so than others." Eliot Cohen's attempt to mimic moral indignation is toe-curlingly bad.)
link to video.google.com
In 2002, BBC World Service (radio) aired this about the lobby–
link to news.bbc.co.uk
/>
(Scroll down to the "Listen to this programme".)
Even today, nothing approaching the frankness of these (rather timid) efforts could be aired on U.S. media. Perhaps because the media have taken Dan's advice to heart and are waiting to first make sure they've got all their facts straight. I do hope they're getting close, because a lot of people are dying.
Walt-Mearsheimer Cancelled by Chicago Council on Global Affairs
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2007/08/10/walt-mearsheimer-cancelled-by-chicago-council-on-global-affairs/
Good. Action begets reaction. As we were saying during Communist years in Russia – "The worse, the better". The close the freedom from that shameful bondage.
In academia, I can think of no other instance where the model of "debate" is imposed on someone. The idea that academics with controversial ideas always subject themselves to "panels" or someone with opposed viewpoints is not common at all. It is common to have speakers who disagree with each other within a series of events but not on the same stage. And scholars as prominent as Mearsheimer and Walt shouldn't be subjected to "symmetry," which is a value of the mass media, not academia, anymore than anyone else should.
Why should theyt be afraid of a debate. It was good enough for Lincoln. And the only reason their prominent is becasue their subject is Jews. Everybody knows that
If anyone's having trouble streaming the BBC radio documentary David mentioned above, you can get the MP3 here:
link to mediafire.com
pearlman- lincoln was the worst president in US history. good enough for him isn't fit for a beggar.
why do people who want to speak about Israel have to engage in a debate? Again, i am going to buy this book. I'm not going to buy alan dershowitz's next book. I don't want to hear him.
Lester: you have got to be kiding me. Who do you think was the best Buchanan? And why not a debate? I know it doesn't go over well with your stormfront crew but those great reichstag days are a little behind us.
Billy, you are stupid, aren't you? Why not a debate? Same reason why Darwin never had a debate with bishops. Scientists do not debate their research with whores. It's like I would debate mathematical genetics with you.
Well Alex, at least I'm not profoundly sick to my soul like you are. And personally I wish the KGB had picked you up and stuck you in Lubyanka. Now, here you are polluting my country. Ah, well, life plays strange tricks.
How beautifully fascist of you, Billy. But, alas! Your side lost, but I am sure, the holy image of Lubyanka still shines in your heart! Your precciouss! Poor little KGB collaborationist Billy Smeagol Pearlman dreams of his opponents thrown into Lubyanka dungeons! We dreams of it… Hissss… We wants it…
Well, pick up your drool, Smeagol and crawl back under that mother-rock of yours. Your time is gone. Live with it.
I have to ask Bill Pearlman, "If USA and Israeli interests conflicted, would you support Israel or the USA?"
Because I have the impression that Pearlman would choose Israel over the USA, he has a lot of nerve to accuse Alex of polluting the country. Which country does Pearlman and his Zionist ilk consider their own? It is a major issue on this blog, and ultimately it is the subject of Walt and Mearsheimer's paper and forthcoming book.
Professor Walt and I disagree on the nature of the Israel Lobby. I argue that the stealth Israel Lobby that consists of the web of Jewish communal organizations that exert control over public discourse from the local through the national level is far more important than the public lobby of organizations like AIPAC, the Israel Project, JINSA, etc.
I discuss the issue with Hisham Tillawi at link to video.google.com
.
I also discuss the aquisition of the WSJ by Murdoch, but I perhaps focus too much on the public control of print journals. Ethnic Jewish newspapers seems to be one of the few media industry segments that still offfer paid entry level jobs. Before a journalist can get a job today at a mainstream newspaper, he gets early indoctrination by working at Jewish journals.
I intend to cover these issues in my book "The Real Israel Lobby and How it Hurts America" which should be finished in early September.
Joachim –
Bill Pearlman is as much a Jew as Nazis were Germans. It is his fascist angle with which he sees everything that defines him much more than him being born to a Jewish mother.
There are people among us, of every tribe and color who have gaping holes of emptiness in their souls. Usually these are people with little personal happiness, almost never a serious personal achievement, without serious goal in life beyond materialistic accumulation. Average, but ambitious. They have two choices – blame themselves for their (mostly perceived) misery or blame the others.
For such people collective superiority, religious or racial, collective victimhood, real or imaginary, delivers great sense of what we call in Russian – "the shoulder feel" – the great animalistic feeling of belonging to something that is greater than you. Its not a bad thing in itself when it is based on doing something honorable. You feel uplifted, you feel wings behind your back, you feel like flying above others. Yes, you feel superior! Anyone who was a part of a coherent military unit, or a small, dedicated group of researchers, or rescuers, firemen, sportsmen, etc, knows that great uplifting feeling. There is nothing wrong with that feeling. You should feel superior when you saved a life from storming fire, or when you vaccine saved thousands of people, or when your small tank unit broke through the heavily defended front! You pay for these moments with years of training, hard work, risking your life and livelihood. These are great, crescendo moments of life and I pity poor souls that never had them.
But some want these for free. Some want to feel superior not just for a moment, not as a result of long, hard work, but as a backdrop of their otherwise miserable life. And this is where all these "master races" and other superiorities rooted in nationalism, racism, religious or "scientific" theories of elitism come useful.
Wherever and however it starts, it always ends up in one or another form of fascism, which is like a low lying badland, where all rotten things end up. Its a lonely, angry and desperate place, ever if you are among many of the same conviction. Anyone who reads this blog can sense it in Bill Pearlman's voice – loneliness, angry and desperation.
Poor Billy Smeagol. As a fellow human being and a fellow Jew, I pity him.
Alex, Alex, Alex, I ask again, what makes you a Jew. You attend no minyan, you observe nothing. And you advocate a second holocaust in the middle east. What makes you a JEW. please tell me. I'd like to know.
Wow, a polite question from Billy Pearlman. That has to be recognized and rewarded with a serious and detailed answer.
But first – don't say "I ask you again", because yo never asked before. You accused, you denied, you sweared, farted and vomited all kinds of pathetic half-wit tirades, but ask you never did.
1. I am a son of a Jewish mother and a descendant of a very old Sephardi Jewish medical family from Holland, invited to Russia by Catherine II.
2. I am a religious Jew, accepting Orthodox understanding of Torah, as The Plan of The Universe.
Talmud, which I, according to Karaite line of reasoning do NOT consider to be Torah,I believe to be a brilliant legal and religious treatise of ancient times, a compendium of Jewish religious wisdom, but some parts of which are rightfully considered to be racist and monstrous.
3. As a religious Jew and a former militant Zionist for many years, I came to believe that Israel is an abomination on Earth, a "Catcher On The Beach" for Jews, turning us from a nation of scientists, engineers, musicians and thinkers, into a nation of prison guards and torturers. I fully accept the position of Neturei Karta, Satmar and other anti-Zionist Orthodox and Hasidic movements and regret that against the advise of late Rabbi Shneerzohn (ZTL) I visited that country once (and will never do it again). I came there in 1996 for a scientific congress, as a militant Zionist and left as anti-Zionist as one could be.
The Land of Israel was given to us, the sons of Jacob, but later was taken away for our sins by the Giver, who promised to Give it back to us, but never said He, that we can take it when and as we please.
But if the only qualification for you to be a Jew means to be a Judeo-fascist, like you are (according to your posts), then I am honored to not be considered a Jew by you personally and the likes of you.
pearlman- james buchanan? were you thinking of pat buchanan?
600,000 americans, virtually none of whom had anything to do with slavery or the slave trade, died for "humanity" while the issue was solved peacefully in every other country. He was as close to a dictator as we ever head and set the stage for the escalation of government that has led us to our 3 trillion dollar a year federal budget and perpetual war society.
I don't have a favorite president. They are all my least favorite.
Nice post, Alex.
I take it you visited the occupied territories when you visited Israel, didn't you.
That surely makes an impression one can never, ever forget. (Before that I was another useful idiot.)
This was in time of peace. 1996, August. Xth Interanational Virology Congress in Jerusalem. This was one of the first usages of the Congress palace in Jerusalem, if not the first. VIP treatment. Well-organized bus excursions all over. One of such excursions was to the Bethlehem. We, in our high air-conditioned buses were taken through the checkpoint without as much as stopping. Slowly we floated above… an entrance to hell. Merciless sun, heat, dust. Narrow concrete walls, yells, armed soldiers, Men, women, children, thousands of them. Biblical faces, tired, hopeless, eyes down. And gun barrels, gun barrels everywhere. I am an active 2d Amendment conservative, member of NRA, a shooter, hell, my daughter was a rifle team shooter in highschool, but never a sight of a gun barrel did insult me so much as then, when I saw it being used to push Palestinian women at that endless line. I was barely acknowledging my own existence… My heart was beating high in my throat, time stopped its flow and was dancing like flames around me. The soldiers yelled at these civilians in Hebrew and that made my blood boil. How dare they, I thought… the holy language, how dare they… but then I realize – this is all they know, this is all they know, poor clowns, poor marionette dolls…
And there we were, floating slowly above that abomination of humanity in our cool buses – virologists and immunologists, most of us medical doctors (not me) and medical researchers, after days of discussing vaccines and cures for terrible deceases that befall humanity… There was something prophetic in this scene – the Hand of Almighty, His presence, was vivid as only it can be in that Land. He was humbling us, us, who thought of ourselves as doctors and humanists and testing us. We were given a chance to see who we really are and what we really were made of.
Have we got it? I knew I did. I knew then, instantly, that if my life would be a price to stop this – I would have given it at the spot, no hesitation, happy. Just to wash this diabolic vomit off my people's history.
It was time of calm, end of summer, 1996. No intifada, no suicide bombings. This was in time of peace…
I'll tell you what Alex. Why don't you kill yourself and we'll see what happens. Perhaps the hand of God will exterminate the Zionist entity. But this is important, you go first.
Gollum, Gollum… Nothing but a coward and a weakling, hiding behind his insults as a little boy behind his mother's skirts.
I pity you kids, Gollum, having an angry, bitter, cowardly father like you must be a miserable experience.
Alex, just impressed by your delicate sensabilities. Your clearly better than we mere Zionist pigs, more worthy. How can you bear to stay alive when we're around. Do away with yourself buddy. This world is not good enough for you, go on to the next.
Thanks, but no, thanks, Gollum!
Billy, what you do is called "projection" in psychology (do not try to read about it, you, with your level of reasoning won't manage the headache) – you are trying to project your problems on others. As I told you before, the empty hole of your soul makes your existence unbearable, but that is you, just you, alone, scared and, alas!, stupid. You shouldn't be playing with these thoughts, darling, with a weak brain like yours, one day you can actually harm yourself, which, as a Jew, you must know, is a no-no for us. So, calm down and try to do something useful. Living a useful life, in general, helps to close that black hole inside you. Useful is good. Try it some day.
As for how can I stay the Zionist pigs like you, its easy. First – very few of you are smart and articulate (most of the smart and articulate are slowly stepping back as the wheels of history turn against you) so, you became just a boring bunch nowadays and its fun playing with you. My genetic math models run for weeks and I get bored sometimes. A clumsy and angry puppy like you is not much for entertainment, but for now, its yet fun.
pearlman- lincoln sucks
What is it Lester, the fact that his first name was Abraham, is that what gets to you and your stormfront buddies
me and my stormfront buddies, when we aren't fronting storms, dilike how he killed 600,000 people in the name of "humanity" when the south had every right to sucede in the constitution. not to mention the fact that he himself was a total racist who wanted to ship all the slaves back to africa. so he's horning in on our turf. and complicated economic reasons relating to cotton and the norths lack of it and demand for it
Bill Pearlman- Better keep schtum. The quality of your responses to Alex is doing your cause no favors.
Mr. Small – Please do not accept Mr. Pearlman as a representative of Zionism. That would be akin to assuming that Fifty Cent is a representative of Black America.