Carter Is Marginalized by Israel, by U.S., and by ‘Times’

by Philip Weiss on April 24, 2008 · 20 comments

In his speech today at the Israel Project, Ambassador Dan Gillerman
said that Jimmy Carter was a "bigot" who had gone to the Middle East
with "soiled hands and came back with bloody hands," because he had
shaken hands with Hamas leader Khaled Meshal. 

Sitting in the audience, I felt some anger on behalf of my former pres-
ident, and marveled that the Israeli Ambassador could dismiss a man 
of Carter's stature in such raw terms, in the U.S. Scholar Jerry Slater
offers something of an explanation in his critique of  the coverage 
of the Carter trip in Tuesday's NY Times: 

The story relates  Jimmy Carter's upbeat assessment of the chances
for peace agreements between Israel and both Hamas and Syria.
After relating Carter's view, Ethan Bronner adds: "But Khaled 
Meshal, the Hamas leader with whom Mr. Carter met in Damascus,
gave a televised news conference late Monday in which he seemed 
to contradict Mr. Carter’s statements. “Hamas accepts the establish-
ment of an independent Palestinian state ON THE 1967 BORDERS 
WITH EAST JERUSALEM AS ITS CAPITAL,and with full and real 
sovereignty and full application of the right of the Palestinian 
refugees to return..."

This direct quote from Meshal is very significant, and completely
consistent with what Carter said. I have emphasized the key points:
that Meshal is saying that Hamas in practice will accept a TWO-state
solution--i.e. it is not demanding the destruction of  Israel--and its
capital will be EAST Jerusalem, not all of Jerusalem. 

In the past two years  Hamas has made many such non-fanatical 
statements that clearly open the door for exploratory negotiations,
all of which have been rejected out of hand by the U.S.and Israeli
governments. That kind of mindless stupidity is what we have 
come to expect from the U.S. and Israelis governments--but 
does the Times have to mimic them?
 

Related posts:

  1. Is Carter Holding Off on Endorsement as a Favor to Obama?
  2. Dershowitz Seems to Want to Settle Scores with Carter
  3. Jimmy Carter: ‘The desire of leaders in Israel to occupy and colonize the land in the West Bank, that’s been the key problem.’
  4. Scripting Jimmy Carter
  5. Jimmy Carter Is Still Passionless (but Soulful)

{ 20 comments }

1 Richard Witty April 24, 2008 at 11:38 pm

I think the condemnation of Carter was overboard, but the criticism of Hamas is not.

There is a certain gullibility and wishful thinking that many on the left grant to Hamas.

Their fundamental documents include overtly racist commentary, including direct reference to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, as if it were not drafted fiction (drafted to stimulate pogroms in czarist Russia), and direct reference to the permanent unconditional requirement to remove Israel from the "holy land". And, a commitment to Sharia law.

Phil, You are wrong about the history of safety for Jews in Muslim countries. There were long periods of safety definitely in locales, but the "they conspire" propaganda has reared in most Muslim countries at times. The "safety" included in different locales ghettoization, prohibition from many professions, mandatory taxation only levied on Jews, prohibition from voting (in some locales where there are elections).

(The status of Palestinians in many of the countries where they are refugees is no better. Jordan allows full citizenship. Lebanon does not for example.)

Recently Hamas blessed the intentional murder of teenagers.

At least Israel says that they regret that children were harmed.

Their story of what they are willing to accept changes hourly. But, the gullible left eats it up.

At least Carter said, *I don't know if they are speaking the truth, I'm just a messenger*, even though earlier he stated that he didn't got to mediate or to pass messages.

I think Carter demonstrated that talking is important, that maybe they'll realize that Israel is not going away, that even a 50 year effort to remove Israel from the map, is vain, that it is more just to pursue reconciliation that allows for Palestinian civilians to develop.

2 Todd April 24, 2008 at 11:57 pm

Gillerman calling Carter a bigot would be laughable, except that he will get away with it. What a hypocrite!

I'm no fan of Jimmy Carter, but the very idea of Israel refusing to provide security for a former president of the U.S. just rubs me the wrong way.

3 Richard Witty April 25, 2008 at 12:03 am

Not providing security to Carter was actually a service to him, that gave him scope to do what he sought to do.

If Israel had accepted responsibility for his security, they would have had to either prohibit his movements or intervene to arrange for security in Ramallah and other places under formal Israeli occupation that he visited.

4 Glenn Condell April 25, 2008 at 12:41 am

'Recently Hamas blessed the intentional murder of teenagers.'

Oh balls. Give us the quote.

'At least Israel says that they regret that children were harmed.'

I'd rather the honest expression of murderous intent you attribute to Hamas than the crocodile tears of an IDF that habitually kills children armed only with rocks, when it isn't shooting journalists or peace activists or bombing ambulances. A few rote platitudes might convince a fellow traveller like you Richard but for the non-aligned, these statements come from a regime for which lying comes as naturally as breathing. If it bothered them that much, they'd stop doing it.

Nice too, how little juxtapositions like these reinforce the 'Arabs are beasts, not civilised like us Jews' meme.

'Their story of what they are willing to accept changes hourly.'

Israel is hardly a model of consistency in it's public utterances either, but it's behaviour, it's underlying trajectory, remains as straight as a die. Again, 'look at them, not like us, (sadly) you can't trust them'.

'But, the gullible left eats it up.'

We will 'eat up' any morsel from any quarter that promises even a possibility of peace. (And it's not just 'the left' – is Ron Paul of the left?) You see, we are serious about wanting it, and feel that anyone who professes to share our goal must agree that the first steps toward the resolution of conflict are contact and dialogue.

Of course, it is always harder for the party with it's foot on the Other's throat to make the concessions necessary for change to occur, but the thing is, it HAS to be them. Only they have the power to decide to take their foot off and allow the Other to stand up.

It's been clear for years to independent observers that Hamas, within the limits imposed by the need to appear tough on the Occupier to their constituents, is trying to say (thru a crushed windpipe) 'we want peace; if you stop settlements and incursions and stick to the RoadMap, we will stop the Qassams' but the party with it's boots on doesn't hear, pretends not to hear, or just isn't listening.

You come over all Kumbaya Richard, but in effect you're wearing Army boots.

5 hlmeankin April 25, 2008 at 3:36 am

Mr Witty (sic) informs us that Israel is the de facto dominant force in Palestine. If we ask him if this should be so, he replies: :"it is right cause it is".
Can we have a little more honesty here.
Why my good man do we need to have a state called Israel? A state run by Jews primarily for Jews? Can you find it in your heart to answer just what would happen to the Jews of the world if there were no Israel?
If someone could help him out I would be most appreciative..

6 Charles Keating April 25, 2008 at 9:04 am

I think Carter demonstrated that talking is important, that maybe they'll realize that Palestinians actually exist and are not going away, that even a 60 year effort to remove them from the map, is vain, that it is more just to pursue reconciliation that allows for Palestinian civilians to develop.

7 bondo April 25, 2008 at 9:05 am

another peace offering by israel. syria and iran cant wait.

IAF Attacks Lebanese Targets; No Injuries Reported
20 Nissan 5768, 25 April 08 03:41by (IsraelNN.com)

Arab media have reported that IDF jets attacked several targets in southern Lebanon Wednesday, including the cities of Nebatiyeh, Tyre and the western Bekaa Valley. Lebanese anti-aircraft positions fired Israeli aircraft, but all IDF servicemen are believed to have returned safely to Israel.

The IDF will not comment on the incident.

8 samuelburke April 25, 2008 at 9:56 am

americas great friend in the middle east, the pariah state israel, that leaches billions of our taxpayers dollars then turns its back on our ex president all the while running spies throught our military.

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/?articleid=12740

the nation within a nation, zionist american jews.

9 Jim Haygood April 25, 2008 at 10:15 am

.

"Sitting in the audience, I felt some anger on behalf of my former president."

Does anyone other than Hugo Chavez mock a U.S. political figure the way Dan Gillerman did?

Maybe Dan just don't like peanuts. Those weren't "bloody hands," Dan. It's just red Georgia dirt from the peanut patch.

That's it, from now on I'm calling Israel's UN ambassador "Dan Gooberman." What a schvuntz he is!

10 Richard Witty April 25, 2008 at 10:17 am

"I think Carter demonstrated that talking is important, that maybe they'll realize that Palestinians actually exist and are not going away, that even a 60 year effort to remove them from the map, is vain, that it is more just to pursue reconciliation that allows for Palestinian civilians to develop."

I agree.

11 Jim Haygood April 25, 2008 at 10:48 am

.

"Hamas's fundamental documents include overtly racist commentary, including direct reference to the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, as if it were not drafted fiction (drafted to stimulate pogroms in czarist Russia)." — R. Witty

You know, I read the Protocols, or at least part of it. It struck me as a rather arch parody of Jewish culture, but very poorly drafted. The author(s) didn't maintain a consistent tone and point of view, so it's a literary failure, whether as a fraudulent document or as a parody.

Really, if it weren't for the high dudgeon with which Jewish groups react to it, this silly book would have disappeared decades ago. If Hamas can't tell the difference between fact and fiction, then they aren't very smart. But Witty seems to feel they should be shot for it, rather than flunked out of literature class.

Witty's fury at Hamas for citing the Protocols reminds me of the tango dance in the movie Chicago. One of the prison babes explains why she murdered her husband: "We split up over ARTISTIC DIFFERENCES. He saw himself as alive … and I saw him as DEAD!"

12 Richard Witty April 25, 2008 at 11:31 am

Actually, I don't have or present fury.

I contest gullibility about their intentions and words.

They do change their demands daily (sorry I exagerated by the term "hourly").

Their contention that they are organized, disciplined, consented by the masses, is subject to question.

From some reports that describe rather than self-discipline a more fascist discipline of others' expression, supporting them (as a party) might result in a far greater tragedy than liberation.

13 MM April 25, 2008 at 12:14 pm

LOL Haygood!

To answer hlmeankin's question, since Witty ignored it:

I think Richard is a classic example of the paranoid militarism that defines zionism at its essence.

"Never Again" says it all for him.

So we're still in the Nazi's reality. Here in 2008. It's the past dictating the future.

What Richard would say is justified by mistreatment of "his people", I say is never, ever justified, whether against "his people" or "my people" or any people. And those who commit barbarity, war crimes, need to be controlled somehow, and punished only to the extent that they lose everything earned from their crimes. That is a universalist humanist perspective, correct me if I'm wrong.

Richard seems to like that perspective, except that it doesn't make special exception for brutality done in the name of protecting "his people".

Notes:

"His people" (a somewhat modern invention experts seem to think) are the ones Phil also identifies with, expresses affection if also bewilderment and shame for, and very credibly claims are principals in the U.S.A. in 2008 C.E., the most advanced military economic empire in world history.

"The Palestinians" are or were mostly a bunch of goat herders, farmers, non-industrialized producers, that have been doing that in the context of Islamic civilization for many hundreds of years. They today include some fairly successful expatriates who are forced to risk imprisonment under our lovely new zionist world order to send money to "their people" in war and in need. Some of that money goes to arm the world's worst armed political movement, Hamas.

"My people" (just to disclose) are the hybrid western european alcoholic anarchist extremeist zen radical people(s), residing in this lonely, lonely political mind state of educated former America.

"People" (Wikipedia definition) is a well-known song, written by Jule Styne (composer) and Bob Merrill (lyricist) for the Broadway musical Funny Girl (1964) starring Barbra Streisand, who introduced the song. It is often known by a line from its chorus, "People who need people….". It has been recorded by Richard Clayderman, Perry Como, The Supremes and others, but is most closely associated with Streisand as her signature song. The song asserts that "people who need people" — that is, people who love others and are not emotionally cut off from them — are the "luckiest people in the world".

(And legendary black American Rahsaan Roland Kirk playing it is the very purest essence of the expression.):

http://tinyurl.com/5wesu3

14 Jim Haygood April 25, 2008 at 12:28 pm

.

" 'My people' (just to disclose) are the hybrid western european alcoholic anarchist extremeist zen radical people(s), residing in this lonely, lonely political mind state of educated former America."

Man, that's a small tribe, MM. And the intermarriage is killin' us.

15 Charles Keating April 25, 2008 at 12:59 pm

How does Barbara's very cloying flick where she plays a feminist
against the Orthodoxy fit in here? Just more identity politics such as we have playing out in the USA? Are there really still default Americans in 2008 after 40 years of PC & Affirmative Action? Are working class and lower-middle class white males still being born to privilege? What did PA just say?

16 Rowan Berkeley April 25, 2008 at 3:09 pm

hlmeankin : "Why my good man do we need to have a state called Israel? A state run by Jews primarily for Jews? Can you find it in your heart to answer just what would happen to the Jews of the world if there were no Israel?
If someone could help him out I would be most appreciative.."

I found the recent edition of Arendt's wartime essays and articles quite convincing on this score – it is important to note that this was before her "pro-american" turn, which, seen in the light of the wartime writings, makes emotional sense at least – even though pro-americanism of this sort is really a mere escapism.

17 Richard Witty April 25, 2008 at 9:49 pm

Your description of me as a *never again* type is hillariously off.

On Passover, in my family we assert "NEVER AGAIN. To anyone. And not by my/our hand."

It definitely includes that we will never again live in a walking apology, and never again will we accept living in persecution. But, it also includes our choice to live an assertively ethical life.

And that statement applies to Palestinians, but also in conformity to the spirit of "all my relations" (if you bother to find out what that is and where it comes from).

18 Duscany April 25, 2008 at 10:19 pm

Witty: "Recently Hamas blessed the intentional murder of teenagers.

At least Israel says that they regret that children were harmed."

I remember reading a speech that an Army Air Corps officer gave to his flight crews as they left for a WWII bombing run on German cities. "As of tonight," he said, "you're all baby killers."

19 MM April 25, 2008 at 10:27 pm

the intermarriage is killin' us.

Posted by: Jim Haygood | April 25, 2008 at 09:28 AM

Worse still Jim, some of us are unable to breed in captivity, aka "marriage"

20 Charles Keating April 26, 2008 at 1:34 pm

Kill those Huns–ADL

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