The coalition building fracas continues in Israel with the Likud and Kadima fighting over who can bring Avigdor Lieberman into their coalition. Lieberman has put forth several demands including creating a citizenship bill that requires loyalty as a condition for Israeli citizenship. Both Kadima and Likud have responded positively to Lieberman's demands:
Likud: "We believe that all Israeli citizens, let alone the country's selectmen, must profess their loyalty to the State of Israel. Today, the Israeli President Shimon Peres is scheduled to officially begin the process of deciding whether Livni or Netanyahu will get the opportunity to form a government. Peres has said he will announce his choice by Friday or Sunday. With this deadline looming the US administration is evidently getting into the act. Ha'aretz reports that, "in back-channel messages the Obama administration
has made it clear it would like to see a Likud-Kadima unity government
in Jerusalem over a narrow right-wing government which would in all
likelihood result in a freeze in peace talks with the Palestinians." The peace process is not the only concern. Speaking at Georgetown yesterday,
Kadima: "[Vice Premier Haim] Ramon told Ynet that 90% of Yisrael
Beiteinu's positions correlate with Kadima's policy. "Even on the
subject of loyalty and everything concerning national service – we
agree," he said."
Although the Israeli process is still very much in flux, Lieberman's position looks stronger than ever. Very soon the ball may be in the Obama administration's court to decide how to handle the very situation Kurtzer is afraid of.
Likud: "We believe that all Israeli citizens, let alone the country's selectedmen, must profess their loyalty to the State of Israel."
this explains israel joe lieberman, israel dershowitz, israel wolfowitz, israel summers, and other israelis in american suits, and the selectmen of the american congress and media and executive.
"we pledge undying loyalty(jews)/undying servitude(jewpets) to the shitty one."
I actually think that compulsory IDF service for Arab citizens is not at all a bad idea. Arabs should make the best of it and push for careers in the military.
Radical settlers have for some time blathered about a "mutiny" in the IDF if any Israeli government ever dares to evict West Bank settlers – thanks to the large number of settlers serving in the IDF. When, sooner or later, 20 to 25% of the IDF are Arabs, we are talking about whole new possibilities for "mutiny" – and keeping those possibilities in mind can only have a positive effect on Israeli policies.
I have to laugh at the people who fancy themselves enslaved by Jews. Thank God they don't share their perverted sexual fantasies with us in that regard. I really do NOT want to know what you imagine Joe Lieberman doing to you…TMI!
One of the first things the apartheid National Party government did after it came to power in South Africa in 1948 was to take the vote away from those mixed-race and black people who had had the vote up to then. By shifting the electorate, this consolidated the party's power after a fairly close election victory.
also, as I predicted, the irrepressible rav ovadia yosef is making his own ridiculous demands, which he will jettison soon, in return for increased money for his corrupt 'education' system.
Much more proof that the conditions in SA are nothing like Israel, making the aparthied argument mere racist bullshit.
IDF s/b JTT, jewish terrorist thugs
That's an effective riposte, Koshiro: with a loyalty oath comes admittance to the IDF. How can the Lieberman's argue with that? The non-jewish citizens should line up behind this idea.
Also, as per a post the other day, the arabs should self-declare that they are jews and demand rights accordingly. (For surely, the locals of Mandate Palestine are far "closer" to the biblical jews than the likes of immigrants like Lieberman.)
So: go the distance. Bring the racist nature of zionism into stark relief. Everyone's a jew!
the arabs should self-declare that they are jews lolol! You DON'T know Arabs. Heck, you know little about any of the parties involved.
What are they teaching you at stormfront anyway?
Palestinians should identify themselves as Israelites. They all have the Levite gene.
Why the hell should they identify with the oppressor? Just because he's "jewish"? What stupid people we get here sometimes.
Rowan,
Why identify with the oppressor? Well, for starters I don't feel that "jews" are the oppressor; rather, zionists are. I see zionism as just another strain of ethnic nationalism run amok. The religious component is simply window dressing.
Indeed, religions in general are window dressing. So why not call a spade a spade? If it takes being a "jew" (note quote marks — and while we are at it, all jews are best categorized as "jews") to get your civil rights, then why not? Expose the folly that is religion.
In passing, you'd also be undermining the "oppresor", as you put it.
This was someone else's idea here a couple days back and I think it is a great one.
dana, an Israeli Jew who knows a thing or two about the situation there (as opposed to some of the irrational Israel-can-do-no-wrong posters here who have probably never even been to Israel, let alone lived there for an extended period), also suggested that Palestinians could declare themselves Jewish, and made some good points as to why that approach might be beneficial.
dana's most interesting point: That this suggestion was not immediately dismissed as crazy by Palestinians (as some who claim to "know Arabs" on this thread have suggested it would be).
Of course, the idea sent Israeli Jews into convulsions.
Yet we're still told by a few here who have little to no experience in Israel or the Middle East that the Arabs are the irrational ones.
They also have a bridge to sell you.
ummmm…I think you have to officially convert to Judaism before you'd be officially recognized as a Jew.
There's a bit of study and schooling involved.
Now, you need to step into the real world for a few seconds. Just a few…then you can go back to your fantasy lives:
Here's reality: Is Israel going to seriously believe these people are "converting" for genuine reasons?
No they are not.
Muslims are better off fighting this out through litigation.
Btw–I presume this loyalty oath doesn't pertain to Arab Christians, or Armenians, or Russian gentiles? This is strictly about Muslims?
BTW–I run into Israelis a lot…there's a strong community here…and none of them sound as dopey as Dana. She's not representative of anything but global leftwing kaka.
Dan ran into one cyberspace Israeli and now he thinks he's an expert? Give me a bleddy break.
ok…you can go back to your fantasy world now. :-)
They don't need to convert. But one thing that Lieberman and his cronies like to bitch about is that them Arabs aren't subject to conscription. Draft them all, I say. And to Arabs I say: Make careers out of it. Become specialists, officers, even Generals as soon as you can. With 20+% muslims in the IDF, the face of the occupation is going to change for sure. And with 20%+ muslims in the IDF, the Israeli government is going to seriously rethink its policy of responding to Hamas trouble by killing a few hundred muslims.
they should all call themselves canaanites. after all canaan existed before israel or palestine.
a state of cannan in which there are no longer israelis or palestinians, just canaanites living in peace… both the israelis and palestinians would surely embrace this idea.lol.
Serving in the military as a way to obtain full rights in any nation goes way back in ancient history–Israel
of course knows this. Much more recently, with enhanced twist, once Truman integrated the US Army, it was a relatively small matter of time right up to Powell, then Rice, now Obama etc.
Suzanne, in case you didn't notice, the infantile, sex perverts commenting on this blog are your spiritual buddies, e.g.,
SOG, Chris Berel–you know, the type who in person would make your skin crawl?
I pledge Allegiance to the flag, of the Jewish state of Israel, and to the tribal community for which it stands, indivisible, with freedom and justice for all jews in this land.
a state of cannan in which there are no longer israelis or palestinians, just canaanites living in peace… both the israelis and palestinians would surely embrace this idea.lol.
In theory this would be kind of cool!
In reality, the Arabs are nutwings and the Jews are paranoid (living in a hostile neighborhood full of nutwings).
Except, Cipher, that the Canaanite movement of the period '47-'67 was a move for an assimilationist Hebrew Empire, that called for a removal of Jewish and Muslim identity as pre-Biblical sleight-of-hand.
It may be that Hamas and Hezbollah, by blindly killing Israeli Muslims with rockets, will in fact consolidate their identity as Israelis, as Israeli Palestinian Muslims go into Gaza (as they have occupied it in the past) with all guns blazing, as they have in the past for Israeli Circassian Muslims and Israeli Druze. The simple equation of Israeli Islam with Palestinian identity is going to be a shorthand, and will quickly become meaningless as both Lebanese and Gazans have never had a problem killing Israeli Muslims, kidnapping them, or playing with their body parts in Hamas/Hezbollah's perennial masturbatory necrophiliac displays.
Here's reality: Is Israel going to seriously believe these people are "converting" for genuine reasons?
I usually don't waste my time on you anymore, chatterbox, but something similar has been on my mind reading Dana's mindgame, it surely oscillates.
One possible mental flight no doubt would be back to 14/15th century Spain into the inquisitorial mindset of Catholic Spaniards suspiciously watching the Conversos. How can anyone trust the a Marrano? Can you tell me?
Wouldn't it would be highly interesting to watch a remake under changed conditions? The "Jews" as a new inquisitorial force? I hope this has the capacities for a really good comedy. Tragedy we already have enough.
good comments, Koshiro, Sam.
The conversion idea is funny, both because it is pure fantasy and also highly logical to do so. But even if this was undertaken, the rules are so strict that a simple conversion is insufficient. Research who qualifies for "aliyah" and then you would see the difficulties.
Think of the faces of Israel's apologists if millions of Arabs did so just to return to Israel.
For me, the fascinating part is that Israel is actually concerned about it's image. In the past it's been that Israel didn't have to bother with such niceties. The times, they are a'changin.
LeaNder: "The "Jews" as a new inquisitorial force"
What is it with you left-liberals that even when it's Jews doing the persecuting, you still find a way to rhetorically turn it around and pin it on the Christians? That's the real scapegoating going on in this day and age.
Given the commonplace use of that trick in the West since at least the Communists, it's easy to see how the Zionists can get away with their crimes into perpetuity. You left-liberals have everyone hunting Christians instead of Zionists.
What a nasty little, Bill Maher-like movement the left-liberal "elite" are comprised of; complete cynics, opportunists and intellectually dishonest cut-throats. With principles like that, no wonder blackguard Zionists have always prospered in the Democratic party, and found sustenance from the left-liberal establishment in Germany, where even the "Christian" Democrats wage war against the Christian underpinnings of Western civilization. And then some left-liberals profess to be flabbergasted at the Zionist mentality that is inheriting the earth. I wonder how upset they really are. It seems to me, they're nasty little peas in a pod.
link to takimag.com
"Think of the faces of Israel's apologists if millions of Arabs did so just to return to Israel."
The look on their faces when the Israeli military quickly becomes a one-quarter-Arab organization will be sufficient for starters.
Are you still upset about Midway, Koshiro
Genug, Ed, bubkes, I wasn't scapegoating anyone, neither was I attacking your glorious Christian utopia vision.
I was simply thinking about conversion, Muslim and Jews. And since I am not as ideologically firm, as you would like me to be, I didn't have any other aim or intention than to celebrate Dana's idea.
Please note: I care about as much about your ideological murmur as about Suzanne's gibberish.
sorry, Susanna's
LeaNder, I posted to the wrong thread. Please see:
http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/02/bar-refaeli-gaza-and-israels-pubic-diplomacy.html?cid=6a00d8341cc8ad53ef011168861b73970c#comment-6a00d8341cc8ad53ef011168861b73970c
"Are you still upset about Midway, Koshiro"
Of course. And LeaNder is still miffed about drowning in the Hellespont, I hear.
Nice new word, Koshiro. If I ever knew that, it is buried deeply cell-wise.
But nothing to worry, LeaNder is fine, bit miffed, yes, initially. But this time we had cellphones and believe it or not, all is fine.
"…the Jews are paranoid…"
Assuming that this is an accurate observation, one way out of this prison of fear might be for the Jews to heed of the advice of one of their own, and resolve to love their enemies.
It only takes a change of heart.
Hezbollah is a necrophiliac organization because they captured some Israeli soldier body parts and negotiated their return. It makes sense to me. Obviously only Arabs are repugnant enough to terrorize grief-stricken families with that kind of psycho-warfare.
The IDF by comparison are positively urbane. They drop their bombs from a safe distance above, then they surround the area with soldiers and for several days and nights prevent anyone from entering the area and retrieving the injured. The babies and children starving next to the rotting corpses of their mothers and fathers could be tomorrow's terrorists after all–and allowing dogs to eat corpses might seem harsh but it is actually a practical ecological solution to the major problem of too many Palestinian graveyards on future Jewish subdivisions.
"The boss has gone mad," but we are still so very, very civilized.
Thank you for giving even Phil's Phools reason to abhor Joachim.
chris, are you replying to your imaginary friend?
speaking of friends, got any?
why don't you take a break from this obsession of yours and get some sunshine, fresh air, hell, there's probably even a woman out there somewhere drunk and self-loathing enough to be interested in a foaming Jewish Nazi like bottom-of-the-berel.
come on, you're young, chris. time's a wastin'! get to it! anti-semitism's not going away, right? we'll all still be here to mock you when you get back, i promise.
I have to laugh at the people who fancy themselves victimized by anti-semites, like Suzanne, Chris, Thom, SOG. They are like the southern belle of the old USA south who cried out how some slave flashed her a dirty look. Really pathetic.
RE: "Are you still upset about Midway, Koshiro
Posted by: Sword of Gideonthe point"
Koshiro, keep giving us your take; it helps looking at truth. Please ignore SOG, who always tried to divert
the thread Phil's articles produce. Sword himself never fought in any war, has done nothing but live off goy Americans, protected by goy troops both as police in the USA, and grunts of the USA military overseas. We value your POV, those of us posting here who are not rabid Israel uber alles types.
Joachim and his wife are precious humanitarians with great intellect and empathy for the human race. I admire what they are doing, that is, giving humans a place to sort out the BS that is killing so many, enslaving so many.