In an interview with the Nation, Chas Freeman sharpens his attack, saying that by the lobby he means the unflinching support for rightwing Israeli governments and notes his support from Jews.
I had a really amazing outpouring of support, privately, not just from
individuals, from Jewish-Americans of other views who hope that this
was going to open up room for a discussion.
individuals, from Jewish-Americans of other views who hope that this
was going to open up room for a discussion.
The two points are related. As the monolith starts to crack, and we get J Street Jews and AIPAC Jews, J Street Jews will be at least a little sympathetic to Freeman in urging open debate of rightwing Israeli policies. And Freeman, who began as I did, by placing responsibility for Israel's hateful policies on almost all American Jews, will change his rhetoric somewhat, as I have too, and form a coalition with the Good Jews.
OPEN the debate on policies, wide.
Make it about policies, NOT about the messengers.
Pardon me Richard. Just what do you mean policies not messengers? Israel has had it's own way for over 60 yrs. I have been maligned for over 40 yrs for speaking my mind. Would you like to control the conversation? Good luck, you have no power beyond the attitude of your self. You, like me, only have opinions.
There always were, throughout history, such Jews that turned against their own people under the unbearable pressure of antisemitism. First thing they always did was to convince everyone – and themselves – that they really weren't traitors, that "the Jews" deserved it and it wasn't really antisemitism but a "harsh and deserving critique".
Mr. Mondowoskeiss here is such a character, trying to convince everyone – and himself – that he really isn't, and that it's the whole Jewish people of Israel that has gone bad, not him.
Mr Mondowoskeiss here is "the Good Jew" you see (and amazingly, isn't even ashamed to admit it).
What a pitiful lothesome PoS. Keep up the "good" work pretending!
And for your antisemitic drooling audience – there's no mystery about the antisemitism. It's just the ancient disgraceful "human" trait of scapegoating.
screaming headline:
- PHILIP WEISS OUTS HIMSELF AS AN ANTISEMITE -
uses the classic "Good Jew" antisemitic slur, doesn't even know it.
screaming headline
- PHILIP WEISS OUTS HIMSELF AS AN ANTISEMITE -
uses the "Good Jew" antisemitic slur, doesn't even know it.
arrgh
You must have missed the announcement. The word "Antisemitism"—leeched of any meaning whatsoever thanks to deceitful vermin like you, is retiring from public life, leaving no forwarding address.
this is such a silly argument, arrgh, as it is painfully obvious you haven't the slightest idea how early Eastern or Western Zionists discussed antisemitism.
First thing they always did was to convince everyone – and themselves – that they really weren't traitors, that "the Jews" deserved it and it wasn't really antisemitism but a "harsh and deserving critique".
Since this is a very basic meme in our larger discorse, could you please name persons including the events, the waves of antisemitism they caused. Not a few nutcases like Arthur Trebitsch. Real influential "Jewish antisemites" or "self-hating Jews" that had no influence at all.
Correction:
Since this is a very basic meme in our larger discorse, could you please name persons including the events, the waves of antisemitism they caused. Not a few nutcases like Arthur Trebitsch. "Jewish antisemites" or "self-hating Jews", like him, that had no influence at all don't count. Name really influential ones.
Actually name just one.
It is all very simple really. The People of Israel (aka the Jews) had lived in the Land of Israel for millenium and a half. Then they were driven out, dispersed throughout many lands. Then they started coming back, gathering back into the Land of Israel (renamed as Palestine by their ancient oppressors, the Romans, ca 135 CE).
The European left-leaning political movement of late 19th century called itself Zionist and the name stuck, but what does that matter. The desire of Jewish People of Israel to come back Home had existed for two millenia prior regardless.
And since Zionism is such a scary and strange foreign word you really should use Jerusalemism, because Zion is Jerusalem.
Or use Tsionuth. You call Temple Mount Haram a-Sharif, don't you?
About the Jewish traitors joining in with the antisemites – they didn't create antisemitism, they joined in, buying their own acceptance through betrayal. They were the "Good Jews". History is full of them, and I'm no historian.
Do your own search. Philip Mondowoskeiss is one, shaming his grandarents' name.
Then they were driven out, dispersed throughout many lands.
Correction: They were driven out, dispersed throughout many lands, yet keeping their presense in the Land of Israel throughout the ages. Then those abroad started coming back, gathering back into their ancient Homeland (renamed as Palestine by their ancient oppressors, the Romans, ca 135 CE).
For 'r': your desire to be an antisemite and to forbid the very word for it is fully understandable Orwellian thuggery.
I understand that you see me as vermin, but where was I deceitful exactly?
argg
your fairy tales of israel are just more childishness and deceit. You ought to educate yourself about the people and land you profess to care so much about.
http://mondediplo.com/2008/09/07israel
and you ought to read a few more "seething anti-Semites" like Einstein, Leibowitz, Philip Roth, Primo Levi, etc. Such Jews of character offer a marvelous antidote to the IDF filth from the sewer you seem to enjoy wallowing in.
"Oh, what an impoverished Jew this arrogant Israeli is! Yes, they are the authentic ones, the Yehoshuas and the Ozes, and tell me, I ask them, what are Saul Alinsky and David Riesman and Meyer Schapiro and Leonard Bernstein and Bella Abzug and Paul Goodman and Allen Ginsberg, and on and on and on and on? Who do they think they are, these provincial nobodies! Jailers! This is their great Jewish achievement — to make Jews into jailers and jet-bomber pilots! " Philip Roth
The history of Jews in Israel is the story of one debacle after another. The hotheads at Masada were too far out even for the Zealots. They brought it down again. Once again we see the Hebrew nation screwing up. Zionism is a grand failure. Get a grip!
R,
Have you read Philip Roth? There is a contreversial book that he wrote in 2005 I think, "The Plot Against America". You won't like it.
Why? Because Roth highlights the Anti-semitism he was exposed to as a youth in America? What's that got to do with the filth who call themselves "Israelis" …whom Roth described so perceptively in the quote above?
More Roth!
"They may be able to instill in other Arabs who live under their evil occupation fear and respect for their 'superiority,' but I grew up with you people, I was educated with you people, by you people, I lived with real Jews, at Harvard, at Chicago, with truly superior people, whom I admired, whom I loved, to whom I did indeed feel inferior and rightly so the vitality in them, the irony in them, the human sympathy, the human tolerance, the goodness of heart that was simply instinctive in them, people with the Jewish sense of survival that was all human, elastic, adaptable, humorous, creative, and all this they have replaced here with a stick! The Golden Calf was more Jewish than Ariel Sharon, God of Samaria and Judea and the Holy Gaza Strip! The worst of the ghetto Jew combined with the worst of the bellicose, belligerent goy, and that is what these people call 'authentic'! Jews have a reputation for being intelligent, and they are intelligent. The only place I have ever been where all the Jews are stupid is Israel. I spit on them! I spit on them!"
"arrgh", is this an older or new ignorant, supposing everybody must be just like him. Just blurt out some basics, if you haver never read early Zionist texts, and especially don't know how they discussed antisemitism.
In other words someone else to ignore. To echo Dana, "send the A Team", can somebody send Zionists that actually know something? These midget ideologues are very boring after a time. There must be a nest were all these cuckoos come from.
r, basically I would appreciate it if we could avoid vermin or e.g. parasites.
But that's a hero of mine:
Allen Ginsberg, requiescat in pace
For Carl Solomon
I
I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
looking for an angry fix,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly
connection to the starry dynamo in the machin-
ery of night,
who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat
up smoking in the supernatural darkness of
cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities
contemplating jazz,
who bared their brains to Heaven under the El and
saw Mohammedan angels staggering on tene-
ment roofs illuminated,
who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes
hallucinating Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy
among the scholars of war,
Come on this is bullshit:
filth who call themselves "Israelis"
and makes me even more angry than Richard Witty with his stubbornness concerning Chas Freeman.
"the goodness of heart that was simply instinctive in them, people with the Jewish sense of survival that was all human, elastic, adaptable,"
ah yes, those wonderful Jews who knew their place and bent every which way to accomodate and not to aggravate!
Dear R. Every word that I wrote is simple historic truth. You calling it deceit just shows how far gone you are in your maniacal obssessive emotionality. You can quote Bible for all I care, it'll change nothing in a simple fact that you are a drooling petty antisemite.
Drawing in a "good", quality audience, are we Philip? Nice going! Much to be proud of I'm sure, you pitiful PoS Mondowoskeiss traitor.
He who curses Israel be cursed.
Try to imagine Ginsburg supporting Israel's abominations. or Mandelstam. Or Paul Celan!
Impossible.
Only Jewish thugs, Jewish gangsters of the Mayer Lansky sub-phylum support Israel. ( I'll try to avoid calling them filth, as this does a real disservice to more benign forms of uncleanliness. )
LeaNder – you must be very angry
LeaNder
What is your personal opinion of people who applaud the murder of children on a UN playground? For me, "filth" is too NICE a word for them, and please recall that polls in Israel showed they make up 94% of israeli pubic opinion. A lot of that opinion makes its way onto these forums. Israel's supporters are euphoric when an unarmed protester has his brains blown out.
Indeed, the current electoral referendum in israel had much to do, it is generally accepted, with Israeli public dissatisfaction that Israel had not caused MORE horror, misery and death in Gaza. That's what the promotion of Netanyahu and Leiberman is all about…. dissatisfaction at Israel's insufficient ruthlessness. It's not about anything else!
This is a Nazified society, through and through. To the great credit of a FEW Israelis (Amira Hass, Israel Shahak, Gideon Levy, Ilan Pappe, Yeshayahu Leibowitz, etc) we recognize israel as a Nazi society. This is something to be categorically condemned. Even a few very courageous young men and women have refused service in the IDF because their society is a Nazi society carrying out racist ethnic cleansing, which they refuse to partake in. The matter could scarcely be more black and white.
dear "r". nothing is black and white and nothing is simple.
Hi Jim
Then we have to assume that hitler had compelling reasons for his industrial massacre of the Jews and we shouldn't "simplify" things by categorically condemning his actions.
But of course, no sane person would ever make such a case. It's only when Israel and its repulsive crimes enter discussion that things become "very complicated" and we mustn't pass any hasty judgements.
No…I can't agree with that. It's obfuscation whose only effect is the atrocity denial that has taken place for 60 years.
Israel's security? let's call this argument (which is Israel's incessant refrain) what it is: a flat out lie.
dear r, don't get me wrong. i loathe israel's treatment of the palestinians. i would like to see all aid cut off. i am not an apologist for zionism, far from it. it seems to me that the ameican zionists are like a group of spoiled pampered children. unfortunately they pull many levers here. it won't be easy but they need a good (very good) spanking. i think they are sick in regards israel. it's like discussing the bible with a holy roller.
"Then we have to assume that hitler had compelling reasons for his industrial massacre of the Jews."
again at r, the germans were driven by fear. ww1 was nightmare time and the jews represented communism. so many of the shakers and movers of the russian revolution were jews. fear us what motivates the israelis. the only news channel from the us they get is FOX. i think their tv is probably worse that ours.
Jim
I've pondered the cause of it very often. I know very liberal and smart and generally fair-minded jews who have this blind spot regarding israel. Their critical thinking just shuts down. It's one of the craziest things I've ever seen. Why did these secular jews, who grew up in households not dissimilar from mine, develop this maniacal attachment to Israel? They can't believe Israel is "defending itself" raining bombs on a caged population, deprived even of clean water to drink. They're too smart to believe their own lies, but somehow the truth of what israel has become is too just-plain-awful, too disillusioning for them to engage. I always send the intelligent ones this essay of Sara Roy's. Predictably, it tends to fall on deaf ears.
http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/roy_holocaust.html
Israel's supporters are euphoric when an unarmed protester has his brains blown out.
No, they aren't. A Western protester does mean too much media exposure. Pat Lang once reported he somehow got into a protest crowd in the West Bank (or Gaza, no I don't think) and when he got over to Israeli soldiers, they told him he should take care they noticed he was from the West, so he was lucky he got not shot. Maybe they were cynical, just as I am now. But do we hear much about the occasional dead Palestinian? We always hear though about rockets and always had the suicide bombers on primetime TV.
I share your concern as to the Israeli state of mind. But there are some good people that are less easy to hear. I notice too that their voices on some lists are immediately "extinguished", there is a huge peer pressure going on. The shadow of the Holocaust combined with the threat from Iran plus the threat of new antisemitism does not allow consenters, they harm the group. The state must stand united. That's the basic meme.
"if you haver never read early Zionist texts"
what does it matter what some obscure 19th century politicians thought or wrote? You are discussing Israel today; you call Israel's policies today "Zionism" whatever that means. Get over it; there's no "Zionism"; nobody knows what that means. What there is, is the real politics of the real country, trying to stay alive. You say it's fear driven – yes, it has a myriad reasons to, so it's really concerns, not fears. You say they are unsubstantiated; who are you to dismiss so easily the concerns of millions of people's lives and well being? Is it not just a bit too much responsibility to take on oneself? Especially when you will NOT be the one to pay the price for your mistakes.
As for Hitler. Yes we can discuss his options – the multitude that he had and didn't take. He could've just expelled the Jews if they were so much a nuisance to his delicate psyche. I'm sure every last one of the murdered would prefer expulsion over being gassed or machine-gunned. He could have instituted a total separation and set out some small territory exclusively for Jews. That would only be fair. It would be very harsh but not the totally inhumane way he and his people took.
The Allies complicity in the Holocaust is precisely their fear that Hitler _would_ expel the Jews and they were forced into taking care of them, rather than reaping the propaganda benefits off the issue while being secretly complicit. That's why not one bomb was dropped on gas chambers or railways leading to them, and that's why the visa quotas for Jews, however miserable, were chronically underutilized.
Nice going, Nazi accomplices continuing their work still today, calling Israel a Nazi country, preparing for the next Holocaust.
Be damned.
"can somebody send Zionists that actually know something?"
what is it for you, an academic debate? You demand knowledge of obscure century old political writings; yet know nothing about today’s situation in Israel. All your emotionalisms here are bogus and have no bearing on the reality. No one was celebrating the deaths of children wherever, not in playgrounds (never happened) nor in front of the fanatic thugs. No-one was ever "euphoric when an unarmed protester has his brains blown out". These are all lies you tell yourself to stay nice 'n' cozy in your New Nazism.
The truth IS simple: Irish people have right to their Homeland, and to return there from their exile, and to drive the English settlers out (they did). Israeli people have right to their Homeland, and to return there from their exile. Germany has the Law of Return. Israel has the Law of Return. France is a nation state with one state language for all the minorities. Israel is a nation state with two state languages. It gives more rights to its Arab minorities.
Another simple truth: those who call others vermin are Nazi. Nobody in Israel (98% at least) are calling no Arabs vermin.
There IS a real conflict between the People of Israel (aka the Jews) and the Arab Nation. Arabs have 22 states, Jews have half a state.
There were 600,000 thousand Arab refugees. There were 900,000 Jewish refugees.
Etc., etc.
But YOU of course will continue ignoring the FACTS of REALITY, and will continue to make your pathetic lists of people to be ignored, and your not so pathetic and dangerous dehumanizing LIES.
Be damned. (or have I said it already).
Fareed Zakaria just interviewed Chas Freeman on his Sunday Show (GPS). Freeman came off very well. I'm sorry he will not be appointed.
His GPS QUESTION OF THE WEEK:
We'd like you to think about the forces that influence Washington.
Listening to the show and all the rest that you have read, do you believe groups that lobby on behalf of Israel have too much influence? Or do you think this is a bogus, even scurrilous charge?
Email us at FareedZakariaGPS@cnn.com
" I share your concern as to the Israeli state of mind. But there are some good people that are less easy to hear. I notice too that their voices on some lists are immediately "extinguished", there is a huge peer pressure going on. The shadow of the Holocaust combined with the threat from Iran plus the threat of new anti-semitism does not allow consenters, they harm the group. The state must stand united. That's the basic meme."–LeaNder
That's always been the basic talmudic theme. Only now the jews have a modern state. This combines with world jewry as all jews anywhere are by law entitle to be first class citizens of Israel at any time.
Is there not also a huge Palestinian peer pressure going on? Their literally living reality of the Nabka, now GAZA massacre ( & that a few years ago in Lebanon), combined with the actualized continued threat from the USA & its continued full enabling (also by Europe & Canada, Australia, but with less direct funds) of the IDF & the occupation has an impact, no? We are not talking about what happened in Europe 60 years ago. But of recent times, right up to today. Isn't that the basic meme Palestine hearts hark to?
"if you have never read early Zionist texts"
what does it matter what some obscure 19th century politicians thought or wrote? You are discussing Israel today; you call Israel's policies today "Zionism" whatever that means. You may call Palestinian resistance "terrorism." Get over it; there's no "Zionism" & no terrorism in the context of the middle east I-P situation; nobody knows what eithermeans, except on the ground in its name, or called a name. What there is, is the real politics of the real area in dispute, trying to stay alive. You say it's fear driven – yes, it has a myriad reasons to, so it's really concerns, not fears. You say they are unsubstantiated; who are you to dismiss so easily the concerns of millions of people's lives and well being? Is it not just a bit too much responsibility to take on oneself? Especially when you will NOT be the one to pay the price for your mistakes. A caveat, Americans do pay with their tax dollars, and arguably, the flesh of their sons, to aid and abet Likud Israel's aspirations.
As for Hitler. Yes we can discuss his options – the multitude that he had and didn't take. He could've just expelled the Jews if they were so much a nuisance to his delicate psyche. I'm sure every last one of the murdered would prefer expulsion over being gassed or machine-gunned. He could have instituted a total separation and set out some small territory exclusively for Jews. That would only be fair. It would be very harsh but not the totally inhumane way he and his people took. The facts appear to show
that the route Hitler & Himmler wanted was to ship them all off to the Palestinian area, or anywhere else but land under German jurisdiction. The war itself turned the remaining jews into an automatic clear 5th column against Germany and its allies, referred to by the Allies as part of the "the resistance."
The Allies complicity in the Holocaust is precisely their fear that Hitler _would_ expel the Jews and they were forced into taking care of them, rather than reaping the propaganda benefits off the issue while being secretly complicit. That's why not one bomb was dropped on gas chambers or railways leading to them, and that's why the visa quotas for Jews, however miserable, were chronically underutilized. The opposing view is of course that both the Allies and Germany had bigger fish to fry with whatever instruments they could afford, than merely the jews–it was a World WAR after all. It's hard to see the big picture standing in front of an Israel flag, just as was hard for Imperial Japanese students to see the world other than from the map in front of them–the one with Japan as the center of the world.
"can somebody send Zionists that actually know something?"
Who's emotionalism here is bogus and has no bearing on the reality?
The truth IS simple: Irish people have mostly never left their Homeland, and to this day they can't simply return there if they did akin to Israel's broad right of return; if they drove English out, they did so with the same right a Palestinian has
Israeli people have no right to their Homeland comparable to the Irish relative to the English. Germany has the Law of Return but it has been largely limited to the ethnic Germans routed from land they had lived in for centuries after WW2; since then, the German right of return has been largely cut off. Israel has the Law of Return which is very different, much broader, and unlimited by geography or time. IT is meant to be eternal. France is a nation state with one state language for all the minorities. Israel is a nation state with two state languages yet gives less rights to its Arab minorities. France is not essentially a a theocracy or ethno-state. A french citizen is a french citisen, period–in keeping with
Enlightenment principles, not tribal principles, as actually implemented.
Another simple truth: those who call others vermin are Nazi. Nobody in Israel (98% at least) are calling no Arabs vermin. This of course is not true. Much information has already been detailed on this blog over the last two years showing their are plenty of racists in Israel, the latest news being merely that
right wing politicians have said so on the public record. The Talmud itself distinguishes between jews
and lesser beings equated with animals.
There IS a real conflict between the People of Israel (aka the Jews) and the Arab Nation. Arabs have 22 states, Jews have half a state. There is no pan-Arab state–even though the Brits promised them such, which is why they fought alongside Lawrence Of Arabia. Do the Dutch wish to be Germans? Should they for any reason? Besides, the Palestinians are DNA closest to Jews.
There were 600,000 thousand Arab refugees. There were 900,000 Jewish refugees. Your figures are wrong. Where did you get them?
Etc., etc.
But YOU of course will continue ignoring the FACTS of REALITY, and will continue to make your pathetic lists of people to be ignored, and your not so pathetic and dangerous dehumanizing LIES.
Be damned. (or have I said it already).
arrgh arrgh arrgh arrgh
"the threat from Iran plus the threat of new anti-semitism does not allow consenters"
how's that wrong? consent to what, to self-annihilation? that would be sick.
And the threat is not "from Iran", it is from the radical militant aggressive Supremacist Islamism. The Jewish/Arab conflict in the ME never was about territory, nor even about the conflict between nations, because the Arabs in Palestine and elsewhere were always driven by their Islamic-induced demand for Superiority, hence their intolerance and bigotry in not accepting the equal status in the democratic society being the essence of their opposition to the idea of Jewish Palestinian State. Those who did want such a common future were eliminated by the radicals, in the Big Revolt among other things. After that, only the most extreme party line remained of total rejection among the Arabs, aided by the British schemings.
"GAZA massacre"
a "massacre" is when people are lined up over a ravine, then machine-gunned. That's a "massacre".
Learn to speak in a factual manner and use the language properly, and then you may hope to think straight. Right now you're using crooked words in all kinds of crooked ways. So your thinking is crooked.
What it is, is the state of willful insanity you indulge in.
"continued threat [to "Palestinians"] from the USA & its continued full enabling … of the IDF"
Where's that true except in your inflamed imagination? The US has just pledged $900 MILLION to HAMAS-ruled GAZA. It was just announced that the new admin demands full control and approval over each penny spent by IDF from the annual military aid budget in effect introducing severe cuts. Israel isn't even allowed to purchase any F-22, while Turkey is full participant in its production consortium.
"Americans do pay with their tax dollars"
Wrong. Americans BUY with their tax dollars. In case of annual meager payment of $3 billion to Israel, it's a payoff for Sinai and having Egypt taken from under Soviet influence. It's were that payment started, it's just a fact. So it was a HUGE strategic win for the US for which Israel paid by loosing HUGE strategic territory of Sinai, and $3 billion is bubkes compared to THAT – both as a fair compensation to Israel (it's NOT), and as expenditure for the US (it's nothing really). Don't forget (you always do) Egypt gets $2.5 billion annually in the same framework since the 1979 deal.
"to aid and abet Likud Israel's aspirations"
again with the fallacies. The US stands opposed to "Likud aspiration" and Israel isn't ruled by them one bit. There are national aspirations of the People of Israel – being able to live in their Homeland in peace, mainly, but the ruling elites in Israel are very much opposed to that.
It's just a fact.
"You may call Palestinian resistance 'terrorism.' Get over it; there's no 'Zionism' & no terrorism in the context of the middle east I-P situation"
that's not a nice way to mingle the citation; you're supposed to distinguish your additions from my original text. But you're wrong again regardless. Terrorism in the reality of "I-P situation" is clearly defined. It's blowing up commuter buses in the morning, or going inside a bedroom, dragging a 5 year old out from under the bed, and shooting him in the head.
For the delusionally impaired here, it's the preferred pastime of only ONE SIDE of the conflict. The Arabs. And they do it not out of fear, you deceitful manipulator. That is such a paternalistic load of bullshit. Try listen to them for a change. The key word in Arab militant vocabulary is “humiliation”, not “fear”.
Their delicate psyche is injured by all kind of strange things, like the very presence of Israeli security road checkpoints. You of course immediately assume that Israeli soldiers constantly engage in all kinds of shameful activities against the Arabs at those checkpoints, but that’s just silly. It’s not true either (and I don’t dismiss occasional occurrences but they are few). Don’t you know that “words have no meaning”? Scratch that, that’s such a wrong (postmodernist) way to put it – words have their meaning defined by the culture they are used in? Same words have different meaning in different cultures, don’t you know THAT? They act out of their injured pride, because the natural way of things for them is to be the dominant, the oppressors. That’s what Islam has taught them, and is demanding of them to be. It's against their Supremacist psyche to accept in a Jew an equal.
Yea’ that’s right, that’s the true meaning of “humiliation” in Arabic culture, because it’s a shame/pride, the master/slave kind of culture.
That's why in 1920 Passover massacre in Jerusalem, they chanted "Falastyn our land, Jews are our dogs" as they killed Jews with their swords (as it later turned out, with cooperation of those in British secret service in favor of promoting Arab radicalism, the Laurentian school).
"The war itself turned the remaining Jews into an automatic clear 5th column"
so you’re saying Hitler was right in killing them all off. Note I'm not asking. That IS what you said. It is EXACTLY the justification used by Turks for their Armenian massacre. And it is totally bogus and wrong again. He had plenty of other options. Just like he did in Poland where the Nazis set aside territory exclusively for the Polish from where the German speaking volksdeutche were relocated. And all Polish were surely potential enemies of the Nazis at least in the same measure.
"The opposing view is of course that both the Allies and Germany had bigger fish to fry with whatever instruments they could afford"
which is again completely bogus. The Allies bombed plenty of third-rate targets IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY of Auschwitz, including a brick factory of which there are actual footage being bombed. Bombing the railway stations which served as junctions on the Eastward direction would serve immediate war needs too. Yet none was done. Here'ya go, defending the indefensible. Nice.
"It's hard to see the big picture standing in front of an Israel flag"
very nicely put. So for you, when there's three trainloads daily with regular people, women, children and all, driven to the death factories, eliminating 10,000 a day, going on for weeks and months uninterrupted, is something to be considered only if they are from YOUR OWN people. Your resilient psyche doesn't get unbalanced so easily when they are Jewish. Nice again.
"Who's emotionalism here is bogus and has no bearing on the reality?"
yours, because it makes you operate with emotionalist and not factual language, as I clearly demonstrated. My emotions are grounded in undistorted facts.
"Irish people have mostly never left their Homeland"
Completely untrue. There were times (even today if memory serves) when more Irish lived abroad than inside the Homeland. Same with the People of Israel. The only difference is, their land was under English occupation for 300 years, a shorter period. But that is only a quantitative difference.
"they can't simply return there"
wrong again. They need only apply and show the knowledge of language (I think). Again, the difference is insubstantial. The Jews have every right to drive ARABs out just as the Irish DID drove the English out. There, straightened it out for you.
"Germany has the Law of Return but it has been largely limited to the ethnic Germans"
right, and Jews aren't ethnic now? Wonna go down THAT road? Also, can you decide whether ethnicity is "bad" or "good" in your world?
"they had lived in for centuries"
what, millennia don't count, only centuries do?
"the German right of return has been largely cut off"
Total LIE. It is in effect today just as it was yesterday and the day before.
"France is not .. an ethno-state"
Right, the ministry of Frenchification or whatever – to produce the French out of every immigrant – what is THAT? Or do you hold that ethnicity is BLOOD related? That'll suit you just fine.
"Much information has already been detailed on this blog over the last two years"
Now you're just being funny. No, stop it, I can't take it.
Information? Here?? Are you completely delusional? Most probably you are, sadly.
"Plenty of racists" may hold prejudiced views but NO ONE IS CALLING the Arabs VERMIN. There is a BIG difference.
And, your obsession with Talmud is unhealthy. Seek help, seriously. Israel is a secular state, no sane secular Israeli knows Talmud (and that's the majority of population). The ruling elites are all leftist and anti-religious. Since you don't know any facts about Israel, I'll explain. It's the elites that run the MEDIA and state bureaucracies of police, prosecutor's office, courts, foreign office, army (higher echelons, still), education, etc etc. Politicians today have very little influence over things and are under constant threat of bogus prosecution by the mentioned above triumvirate of media/police/prosecutors. One politician was even prosecuted for a kiss. Seriously. They are all scared shitless.
"There is no pan-Arab state"
yes, there are 22 of those. The land under Israeli control is LESS than HALF PERCENT of that of Arabs.
HALF a PERCENT.
"Do the Dutch wish to be Germans? "
you're completely delusional yet again. Palestinian Arabs speak Arabic, hold Arabic values, profess Arabic religion, freely intermarry with all the other Arabs, are very mobile around the Arab Occupied World – just like any Arabs are, freely moving among states when they find work etc. – proclaim themselves to be part of Arab Nation etc etc etc.
They never self-identified as Palestinian Arabs before 1964 when PLO was born and proclaimed in its founding charter it has NO CLAIMS for WEST BANK and GAZA, only for Israel proper.
Don't you understand it's just a ruse?
"Your figures are wrong".
No they are right, approximately. Do you deny that 900,000 Jews where driven out from Arab countries, stripped from all their possessions, from Iraq, Syria, etc?
Read a little outside your reading circle here. It does a grave disservice to you.
You are misinformed, when you're not disinformed by the ideologues here. Your mind is deformed as a consequence.
It's a sad sad situation.
Recognize the perception filters installed in your mind. Recognized you've been living a lie. Break free to free factual thinking. Start with small facts, investigate, see who's lying to you, and who's not. Look into the seconddraft website. Read up Middle East Myths and Facts. Read up the PLO charter, the Hamas charter, the Palestine Mandate Charter (it's incorporated as a foundational law into a body of international Law by the UN and is the current international law, in effect today – not the recommendation UN assembly resolutions).
Educate yourself in facts, not emotions.
Understand not all peoples/cultures are the same. Some hold different values than you do. Not everyone seek cooperation and peaceful coexistence. Some seek domination. Peace with those is suicide.
Understand that Utopian ideas are nice but have to be realized as natural development after long hard process of natural growth. Artificial shortcuts are always fake, never leading to the goal.
Understand that violence has only one place, in defending against the intentional violence, in self-defense.
Understand that the defining values and qualities of a culture should be judged locally, not globally – on the level of individual, not falling into the faults of generalizing.
Understand that to judge, you need to know first, and not to assume.
These are the most high values:
FREEDOM of THOUGHT
DO NO HARM
NO COERSION
Any culture that is against them, should be recognized as such (and I call such culture evil, but you'll decide for yourself).