The following was written by Rose Mishaan, a participant on the recent National Lawyer's Guild delegation to Gaza. Rose is a student at the University of California Hastings College of Law. I know Rose from when we were both members of Jews Against the Occupation in New York. She sent this out as an email to friends and has given us permission to reprint it here. All the photos below were taken by her. - Adam Horowitz
(The rubble of Al-Zeytoun, on the southern outskirts of Gaza City. Photo: Rose Mishaan)
It took me a month to write this email. In that month, I've been through a whirlwind of emotions, trying to find away to process the things that I saw. I still haven't figured it out.
I went to Gaza with a group of lawyers to investigate violations of international law. We crossed into Gaza through the Egyptian border crossing at Rafah. At first we were fairly convinced we wouldn't get through. We had heard different stories of internationals trying to get through and then getting turned away -- they didn't have the proper credentials, they didn't have a letter from their embassy, etc. It made it all the more anti-climactic when we got through with no problem. just a minor 7-hour detainment at the border, which was really nothing at all. they said we were free to go. so we boarded a bus and drove the half-mile to the Palestinian side of the crossing. when we got there, we went through the world's one and only Palestinian Authority border crossing. we were the only ones there. they stamped all our passports and gave us a hero's welcome -- invited us to sit down for tea and have some desserts. they could not believe an American delegation was there, in Gaza. as far as we learned, we were only the second American delegation to enter Gaza since the offensive -- after a delegation of engineers. We were certainly the first and only delegation of American lawyers. while we were trying to avoid the mandatory Palestinian shmooze time with tea and snacks, waiting for our cabs to arrive to take us to our hotel, we felt a bomb explode. to our unexperienced senses, it felt like it was right under us. i got immediately anxious and decided we need to get out of there. our Palestinian hosts laughed at me kindly and said "don't worry this is normal here". somehow, not that comforting. we got in our two cabs and starting heading from the border to our hotel in Gaza City. the ride from Rafah to Gaza City was about 40 minutes. as soon as we left the border gates, we began to see the bombed out buildings. one of my companions yelled out "holy shit!" and we looked to where she was pointing and saw the giant crater in the building. then my other travel companion turned to her and said "you can't yell 'holy shit' every time you see a bombed out building. we'll all have heart attacks." and she was right. the entire 40-minute drive to Gaza City, our cab driver pointed out the sights around us. he explained what each bombed out building was, who was living there and what had been a big story in the news. all we saw was decimation. one building after another collapsed into rubble.
When we got to our hotel in Gaza City, I was surprised. It was standing -- no bomb craters, no burnt out sections. and it was still in business. we checked in and we had running water and electricity -- both things that i was unsure about before coming to Gaza. that first night we arrived we met with two United Nations representatives: one with the UN Office of the High Commissioner for Human RIghts and one with the UN Refugee and Works Agency for Palestinian Refugees. John Ging, the director of UNRWA in Gaza was clearly upset at the recent offensive. A well-spoken man with a strong commitment to human rights and international law, he told us about the UN schools that were hit during the onslaught. He kept saying that the "rule of law means you apply it to everyone equally". He badly wanted to see an end to Israeli impunity. We got a tour of the facility that was shelled during the offensive. We saw the hollowed out warehouse after it was shelled with white phosphorous and everything inside was destroyed -- medicines, food, spare automobile parts to keep their vehicles up and running (pictured above). John Ging told us about how the UN had called the Israelis after the first shell and told them not to target the UN compound, that there were gasoline tanks on the property. they received assurances that they would not be targeted. Moments later the Israelis shelled the exact area where the gas tanks were located with white phosphorous. the phosphorous hit the warehouses and UN staff risked their lives to move the gas tanks before the fire reached them, avoiding a massive explosion.
That first night in Gaza was almost surreal. It was so quiet, almost deafening. I was convinced that any moment a missile would come screeching through the air and shatter the night. there was a sense of waiting for something to happen. but nothing did. the night gave way to morning and I awoke in Gaza for the first time in my life.
The things we saw that morning would turn out to be the hardest. We went to Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City. In the parking lot we saw bombed out, twisted skeletons of ambulances before we were hurried into the building to meet with doctors. Standing in the middle of a care unit, I saw a little boy, about 5 years old, hobble down the hallway, holding his mother's hand. He had a leg injury and looked in pain. The doctors wanted to show us the white phosphorous cases, since we had asked about that. The doctor pointed to two rooms with patients we could talk to. There were two women in the first one. The one closest to the door just stared at us blankly, not saying anything. It turns out she lost her whole family during the assault. A few of us went into the next room. There we found Mohammad lying in bed -- heavily bandaged, missing his left eye. He told us the story of how his whole family was burned to death when two white phosphorous shells hit their family car. He was lucky enough to have been knocked out of the car by the first shell. He lay unconscious and burning on the ground, while several neighbors pulled him away. He didn't see his family die -- both parents, his brother, and his sister. they were in their car driving to a relative's house to get away from the shelling in their neighborhood. it was during what was supposed to be a 3-hour ceasefire. Their car only made it 70 meters. He and his brother were both in college. His brother was going to graduate this year. As he told us that, a fellow delegate, Linda, who had been translating, suddenly burst into tears. Mohammad grabbed her hand and told her it was ok. Strange how people ended up comforting us. The doctor came in and told us they were changing a child's dressing if we wanted to come see. We walked into a room to see a baby -- about 2 years old -- lying on a table. She suddenly sat up and I saw that one whole side of her face and head were severely burnt. I had assumed she was hit with a weapon of some kind, but it turns it was a classic case of "collateral damage": she had run up to her mom when they started bombing near the house, while her mom was cooking. Then a bomb exploded nearby and the burning oil in her mother's pan spilled all over this young girl's face. While we stood there, she just cried and called for her mom. We all stood watching, feeling helpless and guilty.
We left the hospital and went to Al-Zeytoun, a farming community on the southern outskirts of Gaza City. It was one of the hardest hit areas at the beginning of the ground invasion. The neighborhood was almost entirely inhabited by members of the extended Sammouni family. The town was in the news a lot after soldiers evacuated home after home of Sammounis into one house, that they then shelled, killing dozens of people. We walked up the dirt road and saw the rubble. Only one or two buildings left standing; the rest were completely decimated. Scattered tents served as makeshift shelters. We split up into teams of two and began interviewing survivors. We found two women sitting silently in front of the rubble that used to be someone's home. One of the women, Zahwa, described the night where she saw her husband executed in front of her with his hands above his head (Zahwa Sammouni is pictured above sitting in front of a tent. Her house was destroyed the night the soldiers came through the neighborhood). She then huddled with her children in a back room of the house as soldiers shot through the two windows above them. She showed us the bullet holes in the wall of the house, the heap of rubble that used to be her house, and the wounds in her back from being grazed with bullets while she hunched over her children. Her 10-year-old son showed us the shrapnel wounds in his leg and proudly displayed the large piece of shrapnel that he single-handedly pulled out of his chest that night. His cousins then gave us a tour of one of the few houses left standing -- one that the soldiers had used as a base, after they rounded up all those in the neighborhood and demolished all the other houses. The house was a mess. All the family's possessions were thrown around the outside perimeter. Bags of feces from the soldiers were strewn around outside. The inside was ransacked. The soldiers had covered nearly every surface with graffiti: "death to the Arabs", "if it weren't for Arabs, the world would be a better place", "kill Arabs". I feverishly took notes and photographs of the stories of Zeytoun, knowing I did not want to stop and think about what had happened here.
Throughout the day, we felt distant bomb blasts. I still gave a little jump when I heard the tremors and I can't say they didn't make me nervous. But the Palestinians we were meeting with didn't bat an eyelid. They knew when they were in danger and they knew when it didn't matter. "Oh, they're just bombing the tunnels" or "that's all the way in the north" people would say. Cold comfort.
We met with paramedics from the Palestine Red Crescent Society. They described how they were shot at, and sometimes hit, while trying to reach injured people. We met with human rights organizations who described the difficulties of trying to collect accurate information and trying to help everyone when there was such widespread devastation. We met with a psychiatrist in Gaza City who ran one of very few mental health centers there. He wondered how to treat a population of 1.5 million who were all suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. "Listen to the kids tell their stories" he told us. "They tell it like it happened to someone else". That's one of the symptoms of PTSD apparently. and we saw it again and again. Whether it was the little boy describing his father's execution in front of him, or kids showing us the shrapnel they pulled out of themselves and their dead relatives, or a little girl talking about how her house was destroyed -- none of them broke down, none of them cried, none of them seemed scared. There was complete detachment from the horror they were living and their identification with it. A scarred generation that will inherit this conflict.
I left Gaza by hitching a ride with a car full of BBC journalists. We headed in the Land Rover, with "TV" painted on the hood, down the coastal road that winds the length of Gaza. It was my first time seeing the Sea in Palestine, I remember thinking. what a strange feeling. To be in a country i knew so well, and yet be somewhere so completely unfamiliar. The privilege of having a chance to go there and the utter relief at being able to leave were competing in my head. The crossing back into Egypt was short and painless. But as soon as i saw the other side of Rafah again, i felt a deep ache of regret and guilt that didn't let up for weeks. Regret at having left before my work was done and guilt that I had wanted to get out of there.
Gaza was like nothing I'd ever seen. The reality of a very real bloodbath set in. I saw what this onslaught did to people -- real people. i looked into their eyes and heard their stories and saw their wounds. It made war realer than i ever wanted it to be. There still isn't yet a day that goes by that I don't think about what i saw and heard, and feel guilty about leaving, and sad that people are still living with such pain, fear, trauma and loss. I think the hardest part is knowing that as a world, we utterly failed the Palestinians of Gaza. We stood and watched them die and justified our own inaction. It is something that should bring a little shame to us all.
After reading this, I thought to myself "I hope to soon read of a gigantic blast in Tel Aviv that leaves hundreds and hundreds of Israelis dead."
That's what this report makes me feel. I feel this way despite the fact I'm Jewish, living in peace and complete safety here in the United States.
What the Palestinians feel, I can not imagine.
What unutterable horror: we have let "our" government allow these merciless attacks to happen. Most of us who care about Palestine have read about much of what Rose Mishaan saw for herself, but we need to be reminded about the heartrending effects of the Israeli war on the Palestinian people–the war that we are working to stop.
We have to keep writing "our" representatives and "our" "news" media to insist that they both tell the truth, as well as stop the theft and killing.
We have to work for peace, justice, and mercy until the "rule of law [truly]means you apply it to everyone equally" and we create an "end to Israeli impunity."
Thanks, Rose, Adam, and Phil.
What that story amounts to is a description of scenes typical in any urban warfare against a terrorist organization, combined with stories that might be true, might be exaggerated, or might be entirely made up. Combined with a guided tour for some useful idiots by propagandists working for the Hamas terrorist organization. Who knows who wrote that graffiti, it could just as easily have been Palestinians making propaganda hay as immature Israeli soldiers.
Thom: "What that story amounts to is a description of scenes typical in any urban warfare against a terrorist organization, combined with stories that might be true, might be exaggerated, or might be entirely made up."
Let's do a hypothetical. Assume for a moment the account is true, would that change your opinion of the GAZA assault in any way? If the answer is no, why do you even bother then to post messages about the matter? Save the bandwidth for a subject on which your mind is still open.
Which account? There are several different accounts listed in that article. If some of the Palestinian propaganda is actually true, such as soldiers deliberately targeting civilians, then the soldiers involved should be brought up on charges, just like soldiers who disobey the laws of war in any other army.
However, if you are asking whether isolated crimes would make me think that the Gaza war as a whole was unjustified, then no. The Palestinians chose to devote their limited resources to trying to murder innocent Israeli civilians, the Israelis attacked military targets to discourage the Palestinians from firing on Israeli civilians. The attacks were more carefully focused on military targets than any other military attack I have heard of in similar circumstances.
When the Palestinians put all of their military targets sufficiently far away from their civilian population that their military targets can be destroyed without harming civilians, then their complaints about civilian deaths will be legitimate. Until then, the blame for all the destruction they and their useful idiots in the NLG are whining about is on Hamas.
As for posting only when I don't have a firm opinion on a subject, no one else here holds to that standard. So you are proposing yet another double standard for Jews. You get to post whenever you want, whether you have made up your mind or not, but Jews only get to post when they haven't made up their minds, or have made up their minds to attack Israel and Jews who don't attack Israel. Typical.
Thom's comments are no more disgusting or abhorrent than the other hasbara attacking this forum.
1) If Rose Mishaan is a 'useful idiot' then perhaps a read (or even a quick scan) of:
In Gaza,
written by Eva Bartlett, who was there throughout the whole Hanukkah Massacre, and documented individual stories wwith a multitude of photos taken by herself, would leave any sane person in no doubt of what was inflicted on the imprisoned people of that territory.
link to ingaza.wordpress.com
2) Then, compare her photos with this:
link to cleveland.com
/>
from the 'terrorist-besieged' town of Sderot
3) 'Immature soldiers', especially if they are Mizrahi conscripts, certainly get bored with long hours of boredom between moments of sheer terror, as anyone who has been in a war knows only too well.
But people who:
- Wantonly scatter and then shit all over an occupied home's family belongings
- Scrawl overt racist and obscene messages on the walls
- Knock holes through the exterior walls for sniper posts
- Then plant a land mine under the house to demolish it as they leave
-all Photos at: link to ingaza.wordpress.com
/>
are worse than 'immature soldiers' – they are deliberately programmed killers of 'untermenschen'.
4) Or: "A booklet handed out by Rontzki [Chief Military Rabbi] during the offensive in the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip quotes an ultra-nationalist Israeli rabbi saying that showing mercy toward a "cruel enemy" was "terribly immoral" and advising soldiers they were fighting "murderers."
Yesh Din said the rabbi's message could have been interpreted by soldiers as a call to act outside the confines of the international laws of warfare".
link to reuters.com
Thom (second comment) should at least have the decency to acknowledge that comments attacking the facts reported by the blog will be treated with more scrutiny than those agreeing with it.
Instead he invokes 'another double standard for Jews'.
'You get to post whenever you want, whether you have made up your mind or not, but Jews only get to post when they haven't made up their minds, or have made up their minds to attack Israel and Jews who don't attack Israel. Typical'.
Compare that to this, and laugh out loud:
'You get to post whenever you want, whether you have made up your mind or not, but Episcopalians only get to post when they haven't made up their minds, or have made up their minds to attack Ohio and Episcopalians who don't attack Ohio. Typical'
…and try and work out the logic behind that.
"As a world, we utterly failed the Palestinians of Gaza."
Yes, you did. You encouraged them to take out their rage in genocidal attacks against the Israelis, knowing full well that the Israelis had no reasonable choice but to strike back.
You allowed the Gazan leadership to strike at Israel from the heart of school grounds, mosques, and neighborhoods knowing full well that Israel would have no reasonable choice but to strike back.
You sat back so that you could condemn Israel. You allowed Hamas to sacrifice women and children for the sake of propaganda.
Thank you for posting this piece. Reading it and others like it elsewhere only serves to redouble my resolve to support the Palestinians in their resistance to the Occupation.
As for trolls, banning them would be mistake. Give them as much rope as they like: they are doing a commendable job of discrediting themselves and their cause.
Real peace is so much more laudable and practical a goal than resistance, or retributive "justice".
Obama should equip every Palestinian family with a few video cameras. Otherwise hasbara agents will
simply say again nothing happened in Gaza, it's all just lies and props, a set up for gullible onlookers.
Interesting to compare how the Germans were tried at Nuremberg. The rules of evidence (including forensic) were not applied. Documentation favorable to the defendants was withheld. Anyone could say they were an eye witness and testify, even if there was evidence they could not have been where they said they were, etc.
Ike made the civilian locals sight tour the concentration camps and bury the dead. The locals who had no power at all during Hitler's reign, had only information from Goebbels's little radios, would have been shot if they approached the fences surrounding the local concentration camp. They were all deemed guilty, at minimum for doing nothing while the camp activities went on.
In Poland, where the camps were much worse, and where the Poles themselves were considered untermenschen and treated accordingly, the same thing happened–Polish local civilians were treated as guilty for not obstructing
what went on in the nearby camp.
Gaza is effectively an open air prison camp. Denizens have long been deprived daily of basic health needs. Plus
they are attacked directly with the best tools USA taxpayers can afford to make and give away to Israel.
Israelis and Americans do not live in police states. They have much more freedom as citizens than anyone ever had in Hitler's Reich (or the USSR). And they have access to more information than that afforded solely
by Goebbels's little family radios and news afforded by Julius Streicher, etc.
I'd like to think every Israeli and every American has a duty to know what their government does, allows, finances.
Thanks Rose Mishaan, NLG, and Phil for giving us this information.
Ike made the civilian locals sight tour the concentration camps and bury the dead. The locals who had no power at all during
As far as I know, the Allied Forced only did this to "locals" as you suggest. And these locals surely weren't completely ignorant, they partly knew what was going on e.g. in Dachau or Buchenwald. I know a woman who looked into her hometown's history closely in this respect. Like all of us curious nitwits she was initially blocked, but was very insistent and finally succeeded.
It no doubt was a terror regime and dissidents went to the camps too, but that is a longer and more complex story. .. You basically had to be very careful whom you talked to. But the point is the Jewish Germans that were left here, about one third, had no choice at all. And in the big cities like here in Cologne, before they were put on the trains to the camps they were gathered in so-called "Jews houses". You don't want to tell me that could go unnoticed? Do you?
The Edelweisspiraten hid Jews, slave laborers and deserters, so it seems they had an idea what was going on. The were active here in Cologne too. Mind you, most were arrested and ended in the camps, if they weren't sent to clear the way of mines for the advancing troops.
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Concerning Chas Freeman, you keep misunderstanding me. Not sure why.
I am not suspecting that Chas Freeman, would have been the wrong man for the job. But I am wondering why this is Richard Witty's main point: I would like to know what makes him think so, that is why he keeps insisting no one ever really mentions and supports Freeman's experience, his abilities his adequacy for the job.
What evidence he has to support his view that ultimately the attacks on him are or might be justified. That the US has been saved from the wrong, since incompetent, man in the job.
Oh, what a pity it is that the Torah and the Talmud have been completed! Why are we Jews expected to live and not record these glorious deeds so that boys at Bar Mitzvah can extoll them from now until the end of time.
At the very least, can we now add "Destroyers of the Palestinians" as an honorific to be tolled out every time the word "Jew" is invoked?
"The Jews, Destroyers of the Palestinians, Lords of the Holy Land" A hundred, even a thousand years from now, how those words will redound to our credit! How they will make the Gentiles tremble! With that reputation and , oh yes, a birthrate above the replacement level, and yeah, some mechanism by which we can keep those Bar Mitzvah boys from marrying Gentile womens, why, we got it made!
Watch out world, here we come. Oh, crap, there's that birth-rate thing again, damnit.
I do think the stories require corroboration but it seems we're slowly getting that.
Allowing even for some inevitable exaggeration, many stories tally.
George Galloway, from the Viva Palestina convoy, will be putting his own reports together but all first accounts he's been transmitting confirm the picture we've been getting from most observers. Needless to say, they're all anti-Semites, out to smear the AOF's wonderful effort.
No, I'm not about to change my mind: this was one of the most disproportionate attacks ever conducted by an army. An army that despite the destruction still didn't manage to achieve its stated goals.
Is there anyone out there that still believes that the AOF is the 'most moral army in the world'?
Destroyers of the Palestinians? There were 1.5 million 70 years ago and now they number over 10 million. Of course some, like Arafat, are Egyptian.
"…Destroyers of the Palestinians? There were 1.5 million 70 years ago and now they number over 10 million. Of course some, like Arafat, are Egyptian…"
The point Chris?
Do you and the other hasbara realize how your own words condemn you of inhumanity?
I'm glad the German locals were forced to take a tour of the concentration camps. I just wish Americans
and Israelis would be forced to do the same. Again, since we do not live in a police state akin to Hitler's
we have less excuse to claim ignorance, hence are that much more responsible for the actions and omissions of our respective governments.
PS: C B: There'd be over 20 million now if not for Israel's slow genocide of them.
Huuummmm…..
It would be interesting to see what witty, SOG, Thorn and our other zios would have to say if that picture of Gaza was one of Jewish neighborhoods in the US we genocidal gentiles razed because zionist are a threat to the state.
Of course any non zionist jews killed in such an attack would be 'accidential' and unavoidable…and completely justifed because of course we must protect the gentile race at all cost and ensure gentiles have the right to self determination and their own country.
Yep…Nazi Master Race – Zionist Jews, The Motherland – Greater Israel = same mentality.
Citizen, that would mean there would have been 3.5 billion Palestinians in 140 years hence. Therefore you are lying or you're stupid.
Based on your previous posts, you are both.
American phool, please let me know the last time missles were launched from a jewish enclave at an american suburb. Seems you have the same mentality as the previous loser, citizen.
CB, don't be such a dunce, I was suggesting by hyperbole that your reasoning was flawed, that is, because you said essentially that if the Pals were being subject to genocide how come there is so many of them. You ignored their birth rate.
Here's a kiss for you:
From Chris's Stools freudian projection archives:
- George Washington University officials said a Jewish student who
complained about swastikas showing up on her door put them there herself. link to groups.google.com
No, I'm not about to change my mind: this was one of the most disproportionate attacks ever conducted by an army. – Gert
So what? Palestinian terrorists are allowed to dictate the response to their genocidal attacks?
There is an actual law requiring those defending their citizens that limit the response?
"Real peace is so much more laudable and practical a goal than resistance, or retributive "justice".
At last you understand anti-Zionism, Richard, good for you!
Actually, that is anti-islamic fascism. Too bad you can't tell the difference.
* Urge Your Members of Congress to Attend Gaza Briefing
WHO: Congressman Keith Ellison (D-MN) & Congressman Brian Baird (D-WA)
WHAT: Gaza Video Screening and Discussion
WHEN: Tuesday, March 17 from 7-8:30pm
WHERE: North Orientation Theater at the Congressional Visitor
*The American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC) is sponsoring a briefing on Capitol Hill with Congressmen Keith Ellison (D-MN) and Brian Baird (D-WA) who recently returned from a trip to the Middle East and viewed the destruction in Gaza firsthand. The Congressmen will be showing a video they took while on the ground in Gaza and discussing the scale of the humanitarian catastrophe. We think this is an important event for all members of Congress to attend and hear from their colleagues about what they saw in Gaza. Please take a moment to send a pre-written e-mail to your member of Congress and encourage them to attend this event.
*TO SEND E-MAIL – link to capwiz.com
I thoroughly agree with 'Purity of Arms' statement:
'As for trolls, banning them would be mistake. Give them as much rope as they like: they are doing a commendable job of discrediting themselves and their cause'.
Your hasbara crew are losing, and becoming shrill in the process.
Berel's description of a few home-made rockets a couple of miles over the Gaza fence as 'genocidal' is a good example.
I would call my own experience of having Israeli (but US-made) fighter jets swoop low over my rooftop while releasing very unsmart lethal rockets before they passed over, a better example of 'genocide' and 'disproportion'.
That was the reality in Beirut, back in 1975. The rockets were aimed, roughly, at Sabra, Chatila, and Borj al Barajneh refugee camps.
My apartment cleaner didn't turn up for a few days. Her eldest son was killed in one of those attacks.
20,000 lebanese and palestinians, nearly all civilian, are massacred by israel in 1982 but this is "self-defense. "
On the other hand, the kidnapping of the now-world-famous Nazi Gilad Shalit…that's "genocide."
That's "a second holocaust."
Actually, most were combatants, but why would anyone expect the truth from Rykart?
Shalit? He was an interloper–an ugly, pimply pencil neck, part of Israel's Werchmacht.
"Actually, most were combatants, but why would anyone expect the truth from Rykart?"
Well I didn't know that. Why would Rykart post such lies?
Any idea Chrissy?
Silly when you think how easy it is for you to post evidence supporting your claim that 'most were combatants'.
Now go on – post that so we can all see what pathetic liar Rykart is….
The fact is that Israeli's immigrants are largely ignorant of the truth surrounding the founding of Israel.
For example, there is no history of war between Jews and Arabs prior to the 20th century. It was always the Europeans who persecuted and murdered Jews.
The Ashkenazi Jews do not originate from the ME; they are self replicating Europeans.
The Israeli MFA website history is full of lies, distortions and omissions.
The Jews who escaped the holocaust are now perpetrating another.
Brave people like Rose Mishaan deliver the truth of Israel's brutality. Israelis point to Palestinian crimes without admitting their own responsibility in creating these prisons which breeds violence born from hopelessness.
Their lack of compassion is a stunning indictment of Judaism.
And you can read more on my blog.
It's surprising that there is absolutely no dialogue between the two sides in these comments, just exaggerated epithets and arguments hurled back and forth.
Neither side (between Gazans and Israelis) was compelled to do what it did. Neither side has clean hands. But compared with other contemporary atrocities neither is among the worst (think Darfur, Congo, Iraq even).
So I have to conclude that both sides in these comments exhibit a good bit of racism and ethnocentrism. There is no interest expressed here in proposing or aiding more temperate solutions, no interest in seeking out commonalities or possible points of compromise. Isn't that a poor use of concern or creative energies? Both sides need understanding, criticism, and some show that the critics want them to survive and prosper.
War is clearly not the answer. Nor are warlike actions. If that is so, hurling such hurtful invective cannot be the answer either. How can we move towards real peace? That is the question that outsiders must address, and it involves imaginatively putting oneself as much as possible in the shoes of both sides.
I would favor truth and reconciliation commissions, Israeli economic aid to Gaza and the West Bank, an end to settlements, recompense to Palestinians for lost lands, a true agreement on both sides to end the use of weapons and coercion, and more such measures. Why not try to build on such proposals instead of the handwringing and name-calling that does no good for anybody?
"You take my water. Burn my Olive Trees. Destroy my house. Take my job. Steal my Land. Imprison my Mother. Bomb my country. Starve us all. Humiliate us all. But I am to blame: I shot a rocket back". – Sign carried near Hyde Park Corner during a demonstration in London on 2/15/09 by a Member of the British Parliament.
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Thom is right,Gaza does look after a battle of terrorist organisation only Israel is the Terrorist State(not organisation)
The zionists want Palestine free of Arabs and are engaged in terrorising,colonising,ethnic cleansing of the indegenous population from the early days os Zionism in the begining of the previous century.In 1948 was the first major phase where less than 50% of the population of Palestine got to rule ,after destroying over 500 Palestinian villages, 78% of the land.The second phase took place in 1967 when the 22% left were occupied and later colonised by Zionist settlers.The Zionists are not happy with the fact that despite their 100 years effort the Palestinians arestill a majority in historic Palestine so here comes the third stage ethnic cleansing of the the West Bank and Gaza.
When the Palestinians resist (who would not) they are labled "Terrorists" by people like Thom who makes himself an accomplice to crimes against humanity
This was not a war – a war is when two sides fight. This was a massacre.
It will go down in history together with its many predecessors perpetuated by Israel and its forerunners.
There were no "isolated" cases of civilians being targeted – the attack targeted civilians.
This is in line with Israel's Dahiya doctorine – see link to uk.reuters.com
The Israeli regime is responsible for war crimes – from Ulmert, Barak and Livni all the way to the simple soldier who did not refuse an illegal order.
I agree with Michael G. This isn't about being right or wrong. There is too much self righteousness on both sides. Gaza was an atrocity: it is clear. But all it proved is that warfare only perpetuates the cycle of violence. We need neither anti-semitism nor violent, militant zionism. Both people deserve respect. We must speak truth to the Israelis: these abominations will only decrease their security, not increase it. I agree with the concept of a Truth and Reconciliation Process. These violent Israeli actions can only be understood in the context of the historical trauma the Jewish people are still processing ( I think it's more than an excuse: trauma takes whole lifetimes to process). Now, unfortunately, the abused has become the abuser. We must seek Peace. It is our human duty. Neither Palestinian nor Jewish demonizing will get us there.
I am sick and tired of seeing poor Israel as the victim. They are the ones illegally continuing construction of jewish only settlements…they control water supplies in gaza and the west bank. Along with all the strategic highlands in both areas. Their naval blockade is another example of their vicious cycle against the palestinian peoples. They do not desire peace…they desire these lands and they are not going to stop until they drive every last palestinian out of the region, and possibly out of Israel if you read the latest on Israeli palestinian loyalty pledges. Yes the germans killed 6 million jews…but remember that Hitler also sacrificed 6 million of his own people in WWII. Along with 16 million russians and slavs…so get over it Israel, you act more and more like your former executioners everyday.
How did the death of 13 people become "genocidal attacks against the Israelis"?
This is an insane claim.
It is fascinating that one's political or ideological commitments can make them a total moral monster. The 'other side' ceases to even be human. Who cares if children in Gaza are being starved, mutilated and slaughtered? They are not real human beings, right? I imagine "supporters" of Israel would certainly cringe if dogs or cats were tortured and maimed like thousands of Palestinians were. Everyone wonders how Germans could herd Jews into Gas Chambers, myself included. But now, it's more clear. Once a people are dehumanized and demonized enough, their suffering isn't real because neither are they.
How's that source coming, Chris Berel?
That's what I thought.
Too bad Hamas does not give a shit about the security of their own people. Aparently Iran either. It is a shame Hmas continues to persuit destruction for their own. Shalom.
"I went to Gaza with a group of lawyers to investigate violations of international law. "
No, you went there to attack Israel and support Hamas. Obviously, quite obviously, you had gone there to investigate violations of international law you would also have reported on the many, many violations of international law by Hamas, not to mention its total contempt for international human rights standards. Remember, this is a group that opposes all rights for women, gays, and pretty much everyone else who is not exactly like them and who doesn't support violence as the only way to solve problems.
Pure anti-semitism, no question about it. And another attempt by an American to distract attention from the real war crimes they have repeatedly committed over the years, and which have left tens of millions dead.
"Gaza was like nothing I'd ever seen." Well, then you might want to go to Iraq and Afghanistan. You'd see much, much worse there. But I guess it's okay when your own country does it, isn't it?
FACTS that mike would rather not know:
http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
For mike the question is only who is more genocidal, israel or america, when the reality is they are two sides of the same phony blood-thirsty coin.
Boycott BOTH countries as they continue their psychotic march to Armageddon!
Yap Yap Yap. Oh those poor Palestinians. Please, give us all a break. It is a war zone, dummy. Destruction is what happens in a war. If anything, Israel went very easy on the Palestinians. Way too easy in fact. 1.5 million Palestinians in Gaza and only 1500 (or less) dead. That is less than 0.1% dead. That is nothing. And if anything, the Palestinains won the battle of Gaza since Hamas still rules and the media are filled with pro Palestinian propaganda like this story. Compare that to Stalingrad, or Dresden, or Okinawa. Or compare it to some modern era wars like the levelling of Grozny. These things need to be put into proper perspective.
Palestine
What kind of unholy shit is this? What is happening to our humanity? How can anyone defend such actions that the US supported Israeli trained killers take upon a trapped populace.
Such inhumnaity to man can only be topped by its defense. I wish only that we learn our lessons and never repeat them.
Lesson #1: live and fight by the rules – obey the Just War principles
Lesson #2: there are no humans that deserve to die only because they are Arab
Lesson #3: treat families how you want your family treated. If war is how you treat families then you must be exiled onto a remote island and treated as though you have leprosy
Lesson #4: forgive and love all enemies and bless them and take no arms against them
Lesson #5: fight only honorable battles and never against weaker opponents
Lesson #6: its up to you – what do you want, peace or exile?
Tivana
By andrewp's myopic "reasoning," israel with a population of ~7 million would maintain that "proper perspective" be maintained if 10,000 israelis were killed.
"dummy . . ."
Ad hom attacks . . . the refuge of those whose arguments and thoughts are barren.
"Hamas still rules. . ."
By the way einstein, maybe you've never noted, but Hamas is/was an elected government.
"media are filled with pro Palestinian propaganda . . ."
ANYTHING that does not jibe with israeli hasbara is immediately conflated as propaganda.
If the palestinians would accept israel's right to exist, this would all end!