More evidence that the Israelis were bent on smashing Gaza. The Guardian is reporting that Hamas attempted to forestall the Israeli assault with numerous overtures, including messages sent via Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's family. The Guardian declines to say which family member.
Writes Anees, from Jerusalem: "I know that at least Olmert's wife and daughter are pro-peace (= have a
conscience). His wife alas doesn't like to 'talk about it' and is
thought to be an introvert artist type and not an activist. But his
daughter Dana was/is in Machsom Watch, so it could be her who talked with Hamas."
Alas is right. I say: Let Jewish families divide openly over these issues. Let us emulate the great Henry Siegman who years before he met with Hamas said this to Chris Hedges:
Mr. Siegman does not speak with the rage of indignation but with
quiet disappointment. Most of his brothers and sisters are so angered
with his stance that he cannot discuss the issue with them.
''There is only one brother who I am able to enter into a political discussion with,'' he said.
I am not speaking of division for division's sake. But in Jewish life, our side must speak out, and accept the consequences. The Jewish monolith is too damaging. I'm thinking I might say something at Passover this year. I never do. Not to be disruptive. But we need to get people talking. Got to think of something that doesn't alienate people, call undue attention to myself, that maybe wins over the middle-grounders…
Oy, pesach.. i don't think i can stomach the irony.
It's obvious that the missing partner is Israel, otherwise they would just deal with hamas, and develop an israel that would be acceptable to both. instead, the zionist monolith really wants 'greater israel', but won't come out and say it.. instead, confusing the mainstream (including obama??) with talks of 2-state solution. I find it hard to believe that obama is in the dark here, so I think it's up to us in the USA to give him the backing to call a spade a spade.
Nothing beats antisemites with blinders. It's like watching idiots blunder into walls. They pick themselves up, and walk right into the same wall.
Hamas is planning genocide. Now get up, turn around, and walk away.
I've had similar awkwardness in family situations. But a wound that is not cleansed will fester and not heal. Those wanting to not discuss such issues in order to prevent discord merely seek to preserve the status quo.
There are many people behind you, Phil. Tell them you consider it a sign of respect to speak to them openly and honestly. If you felt they were not worth sharing these views with, you would remain silent. That you have hope in this means there is hope.
The beginning of Passover this year coincides with Deir Yassin Day, the anniversary of the Irgun's mass killing of more than 200 men, women and children in the Palestinian village of Deir Yassin in April 1948. The coincidence of dates brings home the point: how, in this year, could anyone with a conscience celebrate Jewish liberation from oppression while remaining silent about the crimes committed in our names?
For its Pesach observance this year, the Philadelphia chapter of American Jews for a Just Peace will be holding an 18-hour overnight vigil and protest in front of the Israeli Consulate. We have decided to include a Deir Yassin memorial reading, a special passover ritual of memory and repentance, a teach-in, singing, a morning minyan and likely civil disobedience during the morning rush hour. We will be joined by activists and leaders from the local Muslim and Christian communities.
This is, of course, in addition to our commitment to being as brave and calm as possible while speaking up in our family and private seders.
If not now, when?
What do non-Zionist Jews plan to say at Passover seders this spring?
The same thing they save after exchanging christmas presents, "what chinese resterant, dear?"
As a seder by an accidental by birthy Jew is rather meaningless, it really doesn't matter if all hye does is wipe his ass there.
All Jews, who identify themselves as Jews religiously, will say "next year in jerusalem." That is because all Jews, who identify themselves as Jews religiously, are zionists.
Now Phil may be an asshole, but he Jewish enough for israel to provide refuge when the next Hitler arises.
God help her if Hannah Schwarzschild tried that shit at a seder with real Jews in attendance!
I love the idea that a group with fewer than 100 members worldwide nonetheless has a "Philadelphia chapter"! Just one Phila. chapter? Isn't there a North and West Philly branch? How about a youth league and a women's auxiliary?
Jews of character have already fled the nauseating, racist spectacle of the seder in droves. I haven't gone in years. The wine is awful, the food, tasteless and the self-righteous blather, insufferable.
Jews who need this warped cult gathering to feel like Jews are not to be taken seriously.
Actually seders, fasting on Yom Kippur and Tish B'av, public confession at Rosh Hashana, these are the very essence of Judaism. Gatherings for the public expression or discussion of faith are rather the point of Jewishness.
Kosher wine from Italy, Golan, France, and Chile can be decent. I love Passover food myself.
Jews have "fled (seders) in droves"??
I run in some pretty lefty circles and I've never et a Jew who boycotts seders. In fact its very variety and opportunity for discussion are what make it so appealing.
My guess is its the singe most popular Jewish experience.
A thousand dollars says "r" isn't Jewish . . .
'Phil's old friend from High School,
Mom's maiden name is Feldman. Sorry..i'm pretty sure I qualify, though obviously, you're not going to pay up, are you?
Here's another question for you. Do you get a nice warm rush of euphoria when they get to the part about the angel of death passing over the houses of the jews to kill the first born arab child?
Judaism (like most religions) is a moral and intellectual perversion of the mind. I'm sorry if you move in such restricted circles as to never have come into contact with Jews who have long since parted ways with this lunatic cult of race hatred, which actually almost asphyxiated jews under its idiotic rabbinical yoke before we finally got free of it.
Hard to ignore R, but I must try.
The Passover Seder IS the description of what is a Jew. It fits the four-fold description of all Torah inquiry: literal, instructive, metaphor, mystical.
One important shift in consciousness is the description "WE, were liberated from bondage."
That is different than the abstraction of values. I liken it to the first time I was asked to physically lift a Torah in shul. It was physical, not only my prior very abstracted and metaphysical views.
It invokes all the meanings of "WE" that are consistent with a universal sentiment, with the addition of "WE" that are specific and tribal if that word is appealing.
I don't know how Phil will relate to that. From my projection (I thought I remembered us attending a seder together at my aunt's home in the mid 70's, but I might be imagining.)
There are many elements to the "WE" of being Jewish. I've been reading with one of my sons Lubavitch rabbis, and the question of "why Jewish has come up, obviously". The question is not shied away from. Its a rational one.
The way its been described to me is that every human being has an obligation to fellow men, nature and God to adopt cardinal human values, that make sense, ethical and philosophical. Real good.
So, the notion of the golden rule are common in many traditions, and applicable in common ways, whether instructed or just reasoned.
But, Jews are additionally asked to adopt lifeways and mission on the planet that is distinct, not asked of humanity in general. On Passover, we thank God for that, for the "coincidence" of being born in Egypt to eventually experience the commitment to God at Sinai, and to pass that on from generation to generation by blood and by teaching.
Its a choice to continue it or not, and important one.
I'd like to say that by 54, one should have made that choice already, but in my case its still new in very many ways.
Keep it open. Don't take the three steps back of active condemnation. And, if you sincerely feel inclined, adopt it, even step by step.
richard and phil's old friend
look..i don't begrudge people taking part in whatever rituals they enjoy. But i DO object to this claim that participation in this Hebraic mumbo jumbo is what being a Jew is all about. For me, it's the wonderful cultural contributions Jews like Einstein, Horowitz, Primo Levi, Paul Celan, etc have made to the world. Practically all of these guys are atheists. Without them, Jewish culture isn't worth talking about.
At the same time, all this rubbish about our lofty Jewish values strikes an awfully discordant sound in light of the Jewish state's stomach turning abominations, which the mainstream Judaic organizations are almost universally in public support of.
I not only deny that these people represent me as a Jew…I insist they DISGRACE Jews everywhere and they breed anti-Semitism as well.
r the Episcopalian wrote:
"Do you get a nice warm rush of euphoria when they get to the part about the angel of death passing over the houses of the jews to kill the first born arab child?"
Egyptians aren't Arabs. Arabs are people from the Arabian peninsula. In the years after Islam, the worship of Arabia was such that many conflated Muslims with Arabs. But the Egyptians in Exodus were a few thousand years before that.
I didn't question if you had a Jewish mother, rather I questioned you're being a Jew. If you are a Jew, what is it that makes you so? Accidents of birth are not enough.
Besides, are you sure she was your mother?
" I'm thinking I might say something at Passover this year. I never do. Not to be disruptive. But we need to get people talking. Got to think of something that doesn't alienate people, call undue attention to myself, that maybe wins over the middle-grounders…"
Why would you want to talk politics at all when people are gathered together in God's name?
Phil, I think you could say something along the lines of:
"by destroying Gaza, Israel has done much more damage to itself than it did to Hamas. Reason is the whole world now has a concrete example of what Israel has in store for Iran, unless Iran develops a weapon to protect itself (and it's kids). Wait till Obama realizes that Gazans are an oppressed minority. As for the rocketeers of Gaza, they now know that one rocket that can hit a target a mile away is worth more than 50 unguided rockets that fly 25 miles. Lastly (with a big David Brooks shrug): "so you think destroying Gaza was good for the Jews? how so, give me one good reason". Good Luck.
The parts of Torah that describe wisdom that is enlightened common sense are part of the story of what it means to be a Jew.
Its good stuff to cling to, and sometimes appears to conflict (probably does sometimes actually conflict) with the other aspects of Jewish ritual, perspective, or behavior.
The notion that Jews adopt a specific and intense degree of specific commitment that they attributed to the Sinai collective experience, is also real.
If you are Jewish, it is asked of you.
To speak contemptuously of the ritual of Passover publicly is avoidable. Anyone that has attended a sincere and thoughtful one, has experienced a ritual that is extremely suggestive of real hope, and not only for Jews.
Please control your tongue so your words have a benevolent effect, rather than harmful.
Respectfully stated politics seems like the right thing to do at a Seder.
We are expressing thanks for our liberation, and inquiring as to what enhances it in the world.
For Phil,
I would NEVER suggest that families "openly divide" on any political issue.
Your parents' and brothers/sisters acceptance of you is unconditional, and you should extend similarly. I know you've tried their patience and they haven't prohibited you from their seder or other family participation.
If it is an impractical (worse, inhumane) suggestion for your own family, please do not suggest it for others.
Discussion, disagreement is a DIFFERENT word than what you used, "divide".
Since then standing up against oppression, humiliation, massacres and starvation policies is POLITICS?
It is a moral stand, not a political one.
Trying to call it politics is a hasbara trick.
It hopes to make opposition to these horrors a matter of choice, which is morally neutral, rather than moral imperative.
The wine is awful, the food, tasteless…
Posted by: r
And they serve such small portions.
We get the joke. We also get that your life is a joke.
Be happy, we're laughing.
9.16 pm comment is not really by Jim Haygood, IMHO.
The self-serving story of Jewish exodus is a fairy tale. The whole thing is a fairy tale and smart Jews in America, Israel and everyplace else recognize that it's a fairy tale.
..as exposed by Israeli historians:
http://mondediplo.com/2008/09/07israel
As Einstein said, it's childish.
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."
"No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this,"
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080513122249.m3ds3b6j&show_article=1
Was Einstein merely a Jew by accident of birth? In the twisted minds of the religious, pro-Israel parasites, probably so. And they have contributed WHAT to jewish culture?
oh..I remember… nothing.
They have contributed nothing.
I'm trying to track down an email address for Mr. Weiss. He wrote about me a few years ago. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
I'm sure Phil's old friend from high school is a decent person when the topic isn't his pseudo-religious race cult.
@Phil & Adam
What do non-Zionist Jews plan to say at a Seder?:
"How the hell did I end up at a Seder".
"I'm only here because my family forced me to be here".
"Anyone want to go for bacon cheeseburgers later?"
"What's a Seder?"
"What is this service to you?"
As for what the Jews there will say:
"The wicked child, what does that one say? 'What is this service to you?' 'To you' and not 'to me,' excluding that one’s own self from the community, and denying the basic principle of life. Set that one’s teeth and say: 'because of what God did for me when I went out of Egypt.' 'For me' and not 'for you,' for had you been there, you would not be redeemed."
@Chris Berel
"All Jews, who identify themselves as Jews religiously…". You are wrong. Don't forget Neturei Karta (sp?) They are religious nutjobs who think that Israel shouldn't exist because the Messiah hasn't shown up yet.
I see. Neturei Karta are "nutjobs" for following doctrinaire Judaism, but the Nazi tapeworms of Israel who base their claims to the land on historical fairy tales and hallucinations about god granting them dominion in perpetuity to real estate most of them had never set foot in…they are normal, I suppose?
There are two chasidic groups that oppose the state of Israel (they still benefit from the state's protection though).
The Satmar and the Neturai Karta.
They both pose the question relative to the invitation of the Messianic age, identifying a prerequisite of "IF you keep my commandments…".
The thing that you don't get about both the Satmar and the Neturai Karta is that they mean a VERY HIGH bar for Jews, as Jews, keeping the commandments.
They do NOT advocate for Jews to assimilate, to post invective on the internet on Shabbat, for Jews to inter-marry. They do identify that Jews' obligation is to apply BOTH the humanist pre-Mosaic commandments that "make sense", as well as the unique commandments to Jews as "the nation of priests".
Maybe the Neturai Karta are right about what sequence brings the messiah process to the planet. But, to the extent that they harrangue against other adherent Jews, they violate on of the identified commandments that is prerequisite for their Zionism (following the messianic presence).