One of Bibi Netanyahu's themes is economic peace for the Palestinians, not political sovereignty. He means, we will include them more in the robust Israeli economy and bring up their standard of living, and they will then accept their political status as not-full-citizens of a Palestinian state. Last year, Bernard Avishai explored this idea in his book The Hebrew Republic. He interviewed several prosperous Palestinians about their hopes for greater economic comity between Israel and Palestine.
And they all wanted it. The two peoples could help one another enormously economically. Then Avishai asked whether such progress was possible without political changes. Two answers:
Khalil Shikaki, a Palestinian pollster: "The wall has been devastating to some people living in its vicinity, but for the class you are talking about, people who will have to make intelligent decisions about competition, about the family fortune, people upon whom Palestinian growth will depend, the wall has been a tremendous psychological blow. During the last ten years, many of these people came in here, put in time, effort, certainly money. Then all of a sudden, the interim arrangements collapsed. Many left… We need to end the closure regime. This is more important than even the wall. it makes it impossible for Palestinians to move around in the West Bank–it took me an hour to get to you today, a ten-minute trip… [O]ur business class would come back if they could be persuaded that this process is on its way to resolution. We'd get somebody's hundred-thousand investment if there were loan guarantees, another hundred thousand if there were an end to closure. Then again, we won't get the million until he believes we are on the way to resolution. Nobody believes that it is, and the wall is their proof."
Great reporting. And it makes me want to cry out to my president: Mr Obama, tell them to tear down that wall!
Discredit terror confidently, and the wall will have a path to come down.
I don't know if Netanyahu would do it, but someone would soon.
oh c'mon richard… it works both ways… those who build walls are often incapable of opening up or reaching out to others… they build the walls continuing to isolate themselves while locking themselves into a shallow situation…
Thank you Philip. I will be writing more about this matter soon. In the meantime, your readers may also be interested in some blog posts that dealt with this subject over the past year.
http://bernardavishai.blogspot.com/2008/01/dictatorship-of-bourgeoisie-please.html
http://bernardavishai.blogspot.com/2008/09/its-not-just-economy-stupid.html
Best, Bernie
When Bibi Netanyahu says he's interested only in "economic peace," then it suggests to me that Israel is currently waging an "economic war" on the Palestinians.
Given the embargo at the borders, and the convoys of trucks with rotting food sitting in Egypt, I would say this is a fact.
What does Bernie think?
Is removing the wall one of the unilateral actions that Israel can tangibly take so long as Hamas, Islamic Jihad, PFLP, Al Aqsa Martyrs, Hezbollah now again, retain their embrace as terror as means of dissent?
What is in fact possible, now? Given both the political power structure in Palestine AND in Israel?
I've stated elsewhere that I thought the Netanyahu suggestion required political change that would enhance permanent peer status between individuals as well as states.
That as currently constructed, the proposal is a fraud.
There is some counter-intuitive reality in Israel compared to Avishai's thesis here.
By the thesis that capital runs from instability, that hasn't happened in Israel. During the recent downturn in US and Europe, the Israeli stock market has not lost near the value that the west or Asia did.
And, there is still a venture capital industry functioning in Israel, while there is functionally none in the US for the last 12 months.
Hopeless?
Calling out to Pres. Obama to ask him to call on Israel to tear down that wall is, I think, the definition of the hopeless. Obama is a dud. Isn't that now clear? He is in the pocket of Wall St., which means the pocket of Israel's forces here. (See Witty's comment above.) Every sign out of DC has been bad, and plenty of people are calling attention to that on the Net. Not the MSM. But we all know why the MSM are hopeless. Phil's career is evidence of that, heaven knows. The US is between a rock and a hard place. Screwed, I'd say. Obama is our latest delusion or I miss my guess. Tom White
"Great reporting. And it makes me want to cry out to my president: Mr Obama, tell them to tear down that wall!"
Unfortunately the fence was built to keep out suicide bombers. It will take a lot of convincing to get Israel to pave the way for another Passover Massacre. I don't think the Israelis have forgotten the bus bombings or the slaughters at Sbarros or the discotheque either.
The fence stands in the way of terrorist mayhem and for now it has to stay.
What about moving the fence to the green line?
"And, there is still a venture capital industry functioning in Israel, while there is functionally none in the US for the last 12 months."
That's because Israel has received a perpetual bailout from US Taxpayers for many decades. You should be so luck as to get cash on the terms Israel does, year after year, and the same for all the other special deals it gets from the whore, Uncle Sammyboy.
How about moving the fence to pre 1947 boundary? Even the partition was weighted heavily for the Jews at the expense of the natives back then…
The fatalities for the I/P conflict since 2000 stand somewhere roughtly around 6300 Palestinian and 1000 Israeli dead. Quite obviously, Julian, "The fence stands in the way of terrorist mayhem …" is a fallacious conclusion: the Separation Barrier does not stand in the way of terrorist mayhem. Palestinians die nearly every day at the hands of Israel.
Richard Witty, rather than "…removing the wall…," consider first a unilateral action by Israel to stop killing people.
Perhaps it would be amusing, in a black comedy way, to list the motives Richard Witty presupposes for action by those whom Israel has declared to be enemies. Witty's supposed motive #2.) Hamas, Islamic Jihad, PFLP, Al Aqsa Martyrs, Hezbollah embrace terror as a means of dissent.
All of a sudden the discussion has expanded to include a whole bunch of other groups. Per Witty's assertion, the common factor: they "embrace terror as a means of dissent." The monolithic stereotype, slipped in there just so slick: everyone thinks alike because they aren't us? Everyone who isn't like us is faceless. They aren't real people anymore, they are "terrorists".
Let's go back to HAMAS and the kassams.
"…terror as a means of dissent" 'Dissent' is defined as… to withhold assent. So Witty considers the kassams to symbolize withholding of consent. Consent for what? HAMAS embraces terror as a means of withholding consent?
That, Richard, you will need to explain further.
Margaret, your refusal to use your brain for anything other than a hatrack is not a lein of Witty's time and energy to explain such simple matters.
What about moving the fence to the green line?
Posted by: Richard Witty | April 19, 2009 at 06:50 PM
Let it not be said i won't give credit where credit is due. Bravo Richard!
There would BE no dispute over the wall if it was constructed on the pre-june 67 border. The claim that its primary purpose is defensive is a sham. Small wonder it was unanimously declared illegal by the ICJ who insisted that Israel must tear it down and pay reparations to the victims.
Bt'selem in a lengthy, detailed report on the wall declared its purpose in the title of their study:
LAND GRAB:
http://www.btselem.org/Download/200205_Land_Grab_eng.pdf