I went to dinner last night at a good friend's, and there were beautiful Easter foods. I was the only Jew there, but didn't think about that till today. There were some Europeans, and a Muslim. A sense of American diversity. The Muslim described the alienation of living in France, when the French spoke of the French people going back to the Gauls. And I said, "The Israelis always cite the French as a model." The feeling in the room was that nationalism is passe.
I sat next to a Parisian and we talked about Israel/Palestine. So much that is coming clear to Americans has been obvious to Europeans for a while. I think that the body blows of 9/11, and Iraq, have had to be absorbed here slowly. The Iraq Study Group had just a few lines about Israel/Palestine. Now Obama is committed four-square, though of course it all may be too late. My dinner mate was amazed by the indifference to Gaza in the American press, and so am I of course. We had the conversation I'm always having now, anger at the affliction in Palestine.
My host speaks German, and I had brought him a Kafka book with the German and English side by side. I talked to him and the Parisian about the importance of Zionism to central European Jews between the wars, how important it was even to Kafka. And how little it speaks to my conditions in the U.S.
My host told a story from the Holocaust, of a Jewish landowner whose fields the German officers used for military exercises, until 1934, when he was suddenly dropped. Then he talked about the Wittgenstein family and the German efforts to confiscate its wealth by proving their Jewish origins.
I said, "Can it happen here? Can a Holocaust happen in the U.S.?"
My host said, "Anything can happen anywhere, that's the lesson." He had been in Argentina in the '80s. There were all the Ford Falcons without license plates that were used to disappear people. He was in an important man's office and the man said, "Why are people so fearful?" "Well because of the Ford Falcons without license plates," my friend said. "Oh we have gotten rid of that problem." "But I walked in and there were a dozen of them on the street right out front." They went to the window, and the Argentinian shook his head. He couldn't see them. Of course they were all there. It reminded me of Gaza. How many people here couldn't see all the dead children.
Hi Philip. I was just going to talk about that with someone: Muslim girls can't wear their veil inside public schools (law voted in 2005 I think?); some say they have to defend French secularism. Others say Muslims wouldn't grant those rights in their countries anyway. To which the French Muslims respond: but this is our country !
It is true, I have yet to see one Muslim complain about the secular principle. To the contrary, I've seen one quote the Quran in favor of it.
"The feeling in the room was that nationalism is ending."
Nationalism, in the sense of an ethnicity ruling themselves is definitely dead in the U.S. With irony, the link to forward.com
rel=”nofollow”>"Jewish community's traditional support for open immigration" is clashing with a unquestioned support for a Jewish state in Israel. Some that broke off, like Steinlight, are facing a very ugly smear campaign much like Carter and Mearsheimer and Walt for breaking with the traditional Jewish support for open borders here in the U.S. The problem is, the contradiction is leading to a diminished moral case for U.S. support for an ethnically Jewish state. Its worse still once you factor the very ugly concept of transfer.
Nationalism is dead? Sure, and the contradiction of Jewish support for multiculturalism here vis-a-vis support for an ethnically Jewish state is killing the moral case for the two-state solution. Multiculturalism has worked fine here and elsewhere. The only crutch left is to rely on a victimhood narrative to plead for an exception. Negative exceptionalism can't rescue this contradiction.
Nationalism is ending? Some people live in a bubble or just ignore what is going on in front of them. Maybe the present order is winding down, but anyone who believes that traditional identities will be forgotten, or that people will not fight over power, is stupid or willfully ignorant.
Phil must not get out much, or he just enjoys seeing the rot that immigration and multiculturalism have brought to the vast majority of Americans. Phil makes some good points on some issues, but he isn't even in the ballpark on this one. He's Jewish on this issue.
It is very true that anything can happen anywhere. That is why I get uncomfortable sometimes when my most radical anti-Zionist Jewish friends insist that antisemitism in the USA is dead because there are many successful Jewish Americans. Anything can happen, and it's right to fear that the horror could happen today in America.
However, rather than "never again" being a reason to embrace nationalism/zionism, I think the real lesson from the nationalist tragedies of the 20th century is that we should be embracing anti-nationalism.
People, like most animals, are territorial. They have individual space. They share family space. And then there are larger communities to which one attaches, is attached, and which occupy territories, real or intellectual, and to which one projects or attaches extensions of familial sharing. Nationalism, like school sports, regional loyalties, or loyalties to causes or ways of thinking or behaving, are ways in which these larger communities build and sustain themselves. Your dinner colleagues who proclaim that nationalism is dying are merely competing for connectedness – raising up that which values diversity and liberalism, and knocking down that which values loyalty to the local political authority.
We will always have nations. We will always have patriots. We will always have those who nonetheless value diversity and that which is foreign and exotic. We will always have competing groups vying for our loyalty, the commitment of our time, talent and money. Most of the time this competition will proceed civilly and peacefully, but there will be punctuations of violence and upheaval, when people will feel backed into a corner, with no choice but to fight for their own space, the space of those who they hold dear.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Happy Easter, everyone.
To those of you that value the Christian approach to life, in the model of the carpenter "Love thy neighbor as thyself", "Blessed are the peacemakers", etc…
Have a joyful Easter.
Just came back from a Passover visit to the Western Wall which is an "illegal settlement" in "Zionist occupied east Jerusalem" as Phil and his friends would have it. I saw thousands of young Israelis, Orthodox/religious and secular, coming together and praying together, and, Thank G-d, lots of young children, ken yirbu (go look it up in a dictionary!).
Looks like Zionism and Orthodox/religious Jewry are doing fine, in spite of the consensus of the handful of people at Phil's Easter dininer that "Nationalism is dead" (tell that to the Walloons and Flemings in Belgium, the Basques, the Bosnians, Albanians, Croats and others in former "multi-cultural, multi-lingual" Yugoslavia, Scottish nationalists, the Kossovar Albanians who want a second Albanian state, etc, etc).
The part of this blog that really bothers me is the sense that there are among the Israelis and Zionists those who are so committed to the idea that Jews are perpetually victimized by Anti-Semitism, and can only be safe in an Eretz Yisrael that has been cleansed of non-Jews, and to which all Jews are called to return, that they are willing to take illegal and bad faith actions to bring that about, including action to ethnically cleanse, and action that is designed to stir Anti-Semitism, in order to impel Diaspora Jews to return, and who have invested time and money in betting on that outcome. These few need to be intervened with, by those closest to them, to prevent them from doing great harm. bar_kochba132, are you among those?
Doppler:
"The part of this blog that really bothers me is the sense that there are among the Israelis and Zionists those who are so committed to the idea that Jews are perpetually victimized by Anti-Semitism,.."
It's because this blog is so one sided. Zionists are presented as evil incarnate. Arabs as kind gentle peaceful innocents.
Even Hamas a very violent terror group that openly states their objective is the takeover of "all of Palestine" is simply misunderstood
Jeffrey Goldberg, Phil's nemesis was on Meet the Press today. Did a really nice job.
Uno Mundo! No boundaries!
praying together?
Sure about that? Maybe they were all just telling themselves, "Oh, I'm so holy, surely le Bon Dieu will bless me."
Goldberg certainly did not seem like a rabid insane neo-fascist in the slightest.
@ Julian
"It's because this blog is so one sided. Zionists are presented as evil incarnate. Arabs as kind gentle peaceful innocents."
Assuming this so, which I do not, how would you characterize the balance in the MSM and from the mouth of USA politicians regarding the I-P issue & the related USA foreign policy regarding Israel?
Further, Phil is one blog. How many bogs consistently take the AIPAC POV?
Your comment suggest what is not true, that is, that Phil is not samizdat, but rather the MSM
and corresponding overwhelmingly presented POV is the underground.
You have things upside down.
When's the last time there was a White Caucas? Who gets to take the stump or MSM pulpit slota in behalf an ethnic group, the whites, or the Latinos, Blacks, and Jews?
Will the whites be able to do that in 2050 when they are a numerical minority everywhere in the USA, rather than merely as now in 5 states and many cities?
Witty, thanks for the Happy Easter.
Hope you had a nice Passover holiday.
I guess we look to the EU for the pros and cons of an uber power?
The federated USA states won't do as well, why?
If "anything can happen anywhere," presumably that includes Jews seizing the commanding economic heights and making gentiles into second-rate citizens. Yet no one is suggesting on that account that the gentiles use their numerical superiority to turn America into "the gentile state." By the same reasoning, Jews don't need a "Jewish state" in Israel either. Assimilated Jews, who by definition put America first, will never lack for non-Jewish friends and relatives willing to stand up for them here.
Todd is right in this post about Nationalism:
Posted by: Todd | April 12, 2009 at 01:37 PM
And yes it can happen here, not a holocuast as people think of one..but the public can turn the jews into a version of a facist threat or into a version of McCarthy's communist or turn the Hispanics into dread socialist and so on and so forth.
I give Obama until July 2010……and if the economy isn't perking and Isr-Pal isn't settled and we see more corruption in DC and on WS and we are mired in a war in Afgahanistan ..then the witch hunts will begin in earnest.
The Muslim guest at this dinner was entirely correct. he is an outsider in France and will never be French. The indigenous French are indeed descended from the Gauls, at least in part, and "Nationalism is hardly ending." Perhaps amongst trendy, Bourgeois pseudo-intellectuals, but not in the hearts of the "Common people." The growing resistance to elitist initiatives like NAFTA, GATT, and the so-called "European Union" are testament to this fact.
Up with Borders! Good Fences make Good neighbors!
M
If "anything can happen anywhere," AND “Anything can happen, and it's right to fear that the horror could happen today in America.” — because as you imply anti Semitism is not dead – perhaps never dead?
Well anything does happen – anywhere – for all time – to all people – by all people : The Bolsheviks to name only one ghastly example that is never mentioned in MSM (or even known by most people), and it was mostly gentiles that suffered that one. That also was a shining example of anti – nationalism for you . .
Why do Jews have a monopoly on suffering? Fear of anti-Semitism is rampant and making us all dysfunctional – so much so that right here in our own government most people can’t see past the names to see the obvious Zionist bent of most key positions in the White House as well as Congress. Why does my government send stalwart Zionists/Israeli Firsters as diplomats to Arab countries to negotiate with people who see Israeli intractability as one of their key issues? I fail to see that they are looking after US interests (unless of course one sees Zionism as a US interest – I don’t – I have seen nothing but negative consequences).
So many people with otherwise good beliefs and intentions almost universally have to genuflect when they fear going near the third rail of anti-semitism…
Histories of expulsions, pogroms and even the Holocaust offer far more complex accounts than I had been led to believe in the past. Without getting into detail which many here know anyway, I now conclude that lot’s of different people suffered or died in many places through all time – some more grotesquely than others. Why does all else pale in comparison to Jewish suffering ?
Anti-Semitism is just a modern ideology of control – control of other Jews through continual fear, and control of gentiles who are in the grip of fear of being an anti-Semite with all the nasty consequences.
Debates here and at other blogs about anti-semitism are becoming very tedious — Spinning wheels in someone else’s ideological car.
Fultronix
The great 20th century Greek poet George Seferis experienced many hardships in his life.
He had the misfortune of being born in Turkey when Greeks were being slaughterrd.
Towards the end of his life he experienced the iron fist of the Colonels' rule.
He said after, all this,
"There are always but two parties-Socrates, and his accusers."
We must choose.
@Doppler
I disagree, Nationalism is a relative new "invention", a leftover from the medieval feudal society, where the vassals were obliged to fight for the interests of their liege, or to defend the "True" faith
The hope for human kind lies in the extinction of armed violence to solve conflicts of interests between men, families, tribes and nations.
Our leaders will always try to make the case for their aspirations by invoking patriotism:
.
I hope and believe we soon are done with this kind of collective insanity. Earth is but a tiny grain in a vast univers, and it's time we realize we are in this together, or we are all doomed.
It can and will likely happen again – perhaps not another mass genocide of jews – but certainly the times are becoming increasing familiar to serious historians.
And antisemitism does not occur within a bubble. It didn't in Nazi Germany either, despite the lack of recognition for the role jewish organizations played in buggering that society even before the Nazi assumed power.
"I hope and believe we soon are done with this kind of collective insanity. Earth is but a tiny grain in a vast univers, and it's time we realize we are in this together, or we are all doomed."
Dag,
I would love to know that there would never be another word spoken in anger, or that all people could live in peace without tribes or borders, but it isn't ging to happen. I also don't believe that all humans can or should be forced together. The tribe or nation based upon shared values, history, culture and background is far more natural than the lumping together of dissimilar peoples under one arbitrary system with the purpose of breaking an old order and/or exploiting and oppressing chosen groups.
No offense to Hannah Arendt or Hermann Goering, but those particular quotes are just meaningless talk that is supposed to sound good. Every nation is not geared for war, and all groups of people who resist the breaking of their traditional way of life are not war-mongering paranoids. In fact, they are under attack in the West.
Unless events have changed very rapidly in Scandinavia, the demographics haven't changed enough for you to experience the full effects of destabilizing amounts of often disrespectful and hostile foreigners, or minorities, from very different cultures, who believe that they have been wronged by your people, and demand special rights.
The United States is much farther along in the process, and it isn't working out very well for most Americans. And add to the mix the fact that there are people in the U.S. who exploit the issue for group and/or poitical gain, and there is the real possibility of tyranny or violence in the future.
The multicultural ideologues are just as nasty, bullying and intent on gaining power at the expense of their self-designated foes as any nationalists are, and their views are largely not accepted by the masses below them. At the very least, they are not democratic at all, and they almost never run on an honest platform, if they even operated openly, or as elected officials, in the first place.
There will always be violence, because there will always be a need for self-defense.
If nationalism is dead, why the big support here for a "Palestinian" state? Wouldn't that be a quaint relic of nationalism or a vestige of pan-Arabic colonialism?
Citizen writes: "When's the last time there was a White Caucas? Who gets to take the stump or MSM pulpit slota in behalf an ethnic group, the whites, or the Latinos, Blacks, and Jews?"
Huh? There's an African-American caucus and lobby, a Hispanic-American caucus and lobby, an Arab-American caucus and lobby (CAIR), numerous Christian caucuses and lobbies (including multiple Catholic, Mormon and Evangelist lobbies), an elder lobby more "powerful" than AIPAC (AARP), a powerful teacher's lobby, powerful union lobbies, powerful oil lobbies, Italian-American lobbies, Chinese-American lobbies, etc. and etc. You guys only focus on the Jews – hence your overwhelming paranoia about the "control" by Jews of the world.
"White" is not an ethnic group – there are numerous "white" ethnic representative groups, but they are typically based on country of origin or sect of Christianity.
Jews are not "whites"; most are actually Asians.
I could imagine a scenario in America where the evils of zionism become impossible to bury; where there are one too many massacres done on the American dollar, or the Israelis nuke a country (claiming self-defense from an imaginary nuke program, somewhere).
How would the zionist regime in America react to a decision to cut off all financial aid to Israel ? How would they react to a decision to register APAIC as a foreign organization? Or a decision to supply air-defense systems to Israel's 'enemies'?
Not well I would imagine. And then you go from there…
RE: "If nationalism is dead, why the big support here for a "Palestinian" state? Wouldn't that be a quaint relic of nationalism or a vestige of pan-Arabic colonialism?"–Harry Fenton
Fenton, I fail to see anymore support on this blog for a Palestinian state than I see for a one-state solution. The fact all acknowledge here is that Israel exists, and the debate here is more regarding its policies in light of what the world supposedly learned since Nuremberg, and the implications of such existence as a "Jewish State." Under the two-state solution, it's true, however, that both the Israeli state and the Palestinian state, as such (sans constitution & bill or rights as in the USA), would amount to relics of a passe form of nationalism or vestige (Israel) and copycat (Palestine) of respectively Zionism a la Likud, and its reactionary equalizer in regressive forms of government.
@ Fenton
""White" is not an ethnic group – there are numerous "white" ethnic representative groups, but they are typically based on country of origin or sect of Christianity.
Jews are not "whites"; most are actually Asians."
Blacks have their own Caucas; Hispanics and Jews have institutionalized special group minority status. There are many varieties of Hispanics and Jews; it doesn't matter where their ancestors came from in terms of exerting their respective combined political power. The point is, they act in unison and this is applauded. By 2050
whites, no matter what country they came from, will be an aggregate minority group. Neither
the Hispanic nor the Blacks or the Jews have any problem distinguishing who is white for political group power plays. Whether the whites are an ethnic group or race–they are lumped
together as adversary, and our administration of governmental benefits acts accordingly–whites know this everytime time they fill out a government box and the only "ethnic" group
applicable to them is labeled "White" or "Caucasian." For legal purposes of distribution of
benefits and indirect quota penalties, and transfers of privilege no government agency asks for a break down if they came
form Ireland, Germany, Scandinavia, Poland, France, the Czech Republic, etc.
@ Fenton
"Jews are not "whites"; most are actually Asians."
I see you agree with official Nazi doctrine.
@Todd
Unless you are a native American your argument makes no sense at all. Who are these “hostile foreigners” you speak of and what separates them from the other people who fled from local despots or religious persecution in Europe and elsewhere ?
Nationalism is an anachronism- an ugly remain from Napoleons era. Throughout history people have migrated and borders moved to and fro—all the time. I find the mere idea of risking my life for an outdated abstract concept revolting to say the least.
Personally I’m not afraid of multiculturalism, after all that is what made America great. A melting pot where the synergy of many cultures evolved into one open minded society. Any problem you have derives from the MIRBs (military industrial robber barons) and their imperial aspirations, in which nationalism plays an important role.
@Fenton
My wish for the Palestinian people is not to have a nation per. se.,but to live safe from the IDF killing machine and the zionist’s kleptocracy.
"@Todd
Unless you are a native American your argument makes no sense at all. Who are these “hostile foreigners” you speak of and what separates them from the other people who fled from local despots or religious persecution in Europe and elsewhere ?
Nationalism is an anachronism- an ugly remain from Napoleons era. Throughout history people have migrated and borders moved to and fro—all the time. I find the mere idea of risking my life for an outdated abstract concept revolting to say the least.
Personally I’m not afraid of multiculturalism, after all that is what made America great. A melting pot where the synergy of many cultures evolved into one open minded society. Any problem you have derives from the MIRBs (military industrial robber barons) and their imperial aspirations, in which nationalism plays an important role."
Dag, you don't understand America, or what's happening here, at all. Scandinavians tend to be naive when it comes to immigration an multiculturalism, but you'll be forced to learn with your lax attitude.
What do American Indians have to do with what's happening today? America is being destroyed purposely, and it has not a thing to do with Native Americans.
Unchecked immigration, immigration on today's scale and multiculturalism were unheard of until quite recently, and the melting pot idea was cooked up in the late 1800s by the "MIRBS" that you mentioned to justify bringing in cheap foreign labor from nations in eastern and southern Europe–none had anything to do with the traditions of the Founders.
BTW, how would you be risking your life by denying hordes of foreigners entry into Norway?
@Todd
Wrong
Immigration to US and Norway are almost identical -i.e. both countries have ca 10% of the population born elsewhere. And yes, US is a multicultural society- how you can say anything else is unbelievable. Why don’t you take a trip to Ellis Island, maybe a tour there will open your eyes.
I didn’t say I would. Neither are the minutemen or other extremists patrolling US borders. I was referring to the US soldiers who have died in foreign countries for no good reason.
No solider has ever died defending US soil as far as I know. They have all died for Corporate America. As Smedley Butler wrote:
"War is a Racket"
Dag, you have no idea what the actual immigration to the U.S. is. You just don't know. Our borders are wide-open, and government figures don't begin to reflect the true numbers of immigration. We've gone from 85% white in the 1970s to a point where whites will be in the minority witin a generation or two. That's not a similar situation to Norway's. Would you support a situation in Norway where Norweigians are a monority?
I don't support America's wars, but I have no problem with U.S. citizens guarding the border when the government refuses to do so. The organized crime, lowering of lving standards, general lawlessness, senseless demographic change and political corruption brought by immigration alone make the Minutemen the good guys when compared to the government.
Dag, most American's ancestors did not come through Ellis Island, and I am sure that my grandparents never heard of multiculturalism. Multiculturalism was still under the radar when I was a child.
@Todd
This is the 3rd time you simply state that I don’t know or don’t understand. Bad habit my friend ,and should be discontinued. Argue your case, not the quality or qualification of your opponent. That being said I agree with most of what you write, here and elsewhere. But you miss some vital points.
US is, and has been in decay for many years now. You used to be the world #1 producers , now you have outsourced much of the production and become #1 consumers., ridden with greed, gluttony and complacency. Just like the last days of Rome. As 53% of your graduates from “Ivy League” have chosen a career in finance you have imported 40% of your ph.D’s to fill out the rest. And when the baby-boom, the 68’ers hit the road to “Shady Pines” or Florida’s condos, who are you WASP’s planning to do the actual work, to run America ? Ask your big white father.. maybe Beck or Limbaugh at your next pow-wow.
Your state of lethargy, like Rome, caused by “bread and circus” must end. Maybe the ongoing crisis will make America realize the danger and change its course. I hope so.
Dag, I know that immigration in Scandinavia does not compare to the situation in the United States, and I know that multiculturalism was unheard of in previous generations.
I also believe that the U.S. is in decline, and that the system of public education is terrible. Immigration and multicultural education don't do much for schools.
I disagree that America doesn't have the people to do the work that immigrants do. When there is a choice to do otherwise, Americans will not work for the wages that immigrants work for–they can't afford to. I can go into detail about people I know who have been driven out of business because they, or their employees, can't compete with people who keep a third-world standard of living.
Americans are being harmed in many ways by the greed that you mentioned, but I see no reason to let the immigrants and illegal aliens off the hook. A large part of the mortgage meltdown can be tied to the push to get uqualified aliens and minorities into houses, and I remember the efforts by the federal government to sell the scheme.
Americans have every right to object to the destruction of their nation, and I seriously doubt that a borderless, egalitarian, multicultural utopia will emerge, no matter what happens in America.
@Todd
Of course I agree with you-also this time. Most of it any way. But scapegoating an alien minority for financial crisis reminds me too much of the Nazi-propaganda in the late 20ies Weimar republic.
Germany’s problems were caused by an enormous debt after WWll ,political corruption leading to little or no regulation and a blind faith in capitalism as a flawless system , combined with a hysterical fear of socialism.
I am not saying that US is turning into a fascist state. But there are similarities with Germany anno 1930 and you should all watch out for the rightwing hatemongers. We know what their medicine will accomplish.
I don't fault immigrants. They are simply a tool for denationalizing the US and Europe into a mass of disconnected ethnicities that will be dependent on entitlements and unable to unify against the elites in Washington or Brussels and their corporate hangers on.
"I don't fault immigrants. They are simply a tool for denationalizing the US and Europe into a mass of disconnected ethnicities that will be dependent on entitlements and unable to unify against the elites in Washington or Brussels and their corporate hangers on."
I fault the leaders who allow the problem more than I do the immigrants themselves, but I see no reason to let the immigrants off the hook, either. A large percentage of the hispanic immigrants in the U.S. are illegal, descendants of illegals, or amnestied illegals and their descendants. I understand that I can't go to another nation and just decide to live there, and doing so would be wrong.
Also, people seem to overlook the fact that there is quite a bit of anti-white and anti-Western sentiment around world, and I've seen quite a bit of it among immigrants I've met. Why ignore the poltical component to immigration?
Arrest me if I'm wrong. But are not the bulk part of these "illegals" living in Texas or California ? Some would argue that it is the Gringo's who are living there Illegally.
:-))
And Hawaii–Quite a few illegals there as well.
So you see Todd. Madame Justitia is blind, because she is supposed to objective. You and Rush Limbaugh on the other hand, should open your eyes.
Dag, you are wrong, hispanics officially make up over 13% of the population of the U.S. and they are spread throughout the nation in large numbers that suggest that the official numbers are low. You really don't know what the situation is.
Americans are not living illegally in the Southwest. Mexicans were not thrown off land to make way for Americans. In many ways, the situation can be looked at as a continuation of the colonial rivalry between Spain and Britain. If your point is that Mexican rulers were less European (and more legitimate) than the rulers of the U.S., you are wrong. The Apache and other Indians of the area may have a gripe, but descendants of Spaniards or Central American and Mexican Indians don't.
I'm not sure what Rush Limbaugh has to do with anything. As far as I know, he always carried water for big business on the issue of immigration. Do you listen to him in Norway?
Todd, maybe I didn't understand your last post, but I don't think we really have a disagreement. I think the political issues surrounding mass immigration are critical. Having spent a few miserable years at an elite college, I know how much contempt the elites in this country have for middle America and the South. It's perfectly logical that they would want to "elect a new people."
@Todd
Bearing in mind that the majority of these so called ”illegal aliens” are of predominant native American decent I find the term rather strange and oxymoronic.
Add to that the fact that both Texas and California was captured from Mexico by force ,and the case for this illegal term gets even worse.
I am aware of the demographic time bomb this Hispanic population represent. Maybe a small consolation-the Zionists in Israel are worse off, Much of the problem derives from perpetual warfare. Channeling too much money into the pocket of MIRBs leads to deterioration of vital infrastructure like education. As a result of this you need to import skilled and educated people.
You see the problem ? US needs to import the best people from poor countries to maintain its imperial dreams. You just don’t like the wetbacks. If you could impose the same restriction on all immigrants the case would be much easier to solve. Legal and less hypocritical.
PS: Rush Limbaugh?
Naw, never listened and I doubt I ever will. But I watch Jon Stewart, Steven Colbert and Keith Olbermann. I'm pretty much up to date on this new found ideological "Führer" for GOP. (left-side profile))
:-)
Dag,
Unfortunately (!) there was no enlightened international legal body to wag fingers at the Texans who fought for independence from Mexico, or to nullify the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. Your statement about illegality is meaningless. You might as well argue that the Norman Conquest was illegal.
As for Rush, he is thoroughly domesticated, as Todd pointed out. The only real conservative you will likely see in the MSM occasionally is Pat Buchanan. *The American Conservative*, and takimag.com are two places where you can find the genuine article.
Please don't waste time imagining what we want and don't want. I don't know any immigration restriction advocate who approves of looting countries of their best and brightest in order to drive down our own wages, which in turn discourages our own kids from pursing technical fields.
Dag,
If you are getting your view of America from Jon Stewart, Keith Olbermann (who was doing second-rate SPORTS radio several years ago!) or Stephen Colbert, then you should take the information with a pound of salt.
As far as importing foreign "brains" goes, that is partly a move to drive down costs, as David pointed out. It's also just another way for "divesity advocates" to add a compliant layer of bodies between themselves and the citizens that they despise. It's not working out that well. The "brains" aren't always as good as advertised, and they don't transplant that well, either. To be honest, the immigration ploicies in place are really not much more than an act of passive aggression against the American people.
I see that you don't like America or Americans, but I also unedrstand that you don't know the situation, either, if your fallback position is to accuse others of racism or to bring up the Indians. The conflict between Mexico and the United States was about land, and it was largely an extension of the British and Spanish rivalry. The natives were not the issue.
The illegals who are of Indian descent are largely not descendants of Indians from the areas that are now in America, so your claims of justice being served make no sense. There was no group called Native Americans, and Indians fought viciously amongst themselves over territory. I don't see Cherokees slaughtering Creeks over land as better than Whites doing the same. Also, the acceptance of border-hopping goes only one way–Mexico doesn't accept Indians from north or south of its border.
Dag, if you understood anything about education in America, you would know that huge sums of money are spent, so constant warfare is not the reason for failing public schools. Poor parenting and the breakdown of families is one reason for horrible schools, but it isn't the only reason. Federal mandates that almost force teachers to teach to standardized tests are also an issue. But a huge problem is the lowering of standards due to massive numbers of immigrants with no skills at all, and the useless multicultural dogma that replaces a solid education. If you haven't seen the rot that has taken over public education in America, then you can't know what's happening.
Also if the issue for illegals were justice, they would have much more of an issue with the Mexican government. You should look into that!
@David
I studied under professors from elite schools, and I also experienced the contempt they hold for Middle America and the South. Bigotry in the face of assumed bigotry is no virtue.
Actually, America owes its scientific standing largely to Hitler. If he hadn't driven Europe's intellectual elite into the United States, we'd have remained a cultural backwater, (a condition we are fast returning to).
@David F.
You are referring to the old 300 and Austin's war with Mexico as a war of independence ? You must be joking. They were protestants,had lived in Mexico less than 10 years and didn't even speak spanish. Don't insult my intelligence. It was colonization.
I have not made any statement about the legality of conquest, as I have no intention of undoing any of the wrong done throughout history. I was only pointing out the obvious paradox in calling predominant Indians in US aliens.
Feel free to call them illegal. After all-you write the laws. But calling them ALIENS ?- That is (oxy)moronic.
@Todd
You have problems reading ? I said I had my view of Limbaugh from them. Such wilful "misunderstanding" is annoying and reprehensible.
You do ? Wow. A clairvoyant, please don't tell my wife to be. She's an American and might get cold feet. I love America and my americans friends. But I have grown up in a different society, and am, unlike maybe you,able to look at america more objectively and use my own as a yardstick. It is, however correct that I don't know much about education in US. Your assertion is that lack of funding is of no relevance for the failure,and that the immigrants(big surprise) are to blame. I will ask my trusted nurse and soon to be wife to educate me on education. I find this hard to believe.
Dag, it is obvious that you don't know much about the current situation in America, so why why claim that I'm not objective when I'm just trying to explain it to you? You really are clueless about the imigration situationand its effects on crime, education and social decay. There is no multicultural utopia in the making on American soil, and anyone who experiences it on a daily basis knows that it is a nasty balkanization that is taking place.
I've been to Norway, and its a very nice country. I'm married to a Finn, and have spent quite a bit of time in the Scandinavian countries. I just don't understand why so many Scandinavians are so willing to ruin their nations in order to meet ideological standards for immigration. It's nuts.
Also, you have pretty much stated that you view the United States as illegitimate, and that there is nothing worth preserving in traditional America. I take that as a dislike of America and Americans.