Surprise. The new Foreign Minister of Israel, one Avigdor Lieberman, has come out against the peace talks with the Palestinians conducted by his predecessor, Tzipi Livni, and said that any concessions to the Palestinians mean war.
As for the lobby, the Anti-Defamation League has embraced Lieberman's government:
"We
stand in solidarity with Prime Minister Netanyahu and his government
and wish them great success as they work to promote peace with security…."
stand in solidarity with Prime Minister Netanyahu and his government
and wish them great success as they work to promote peace with security…."
And the Conference of Presidents also embraces Lieberman, and denies there's any such thing as a lobby:
The special relationship was never determined on the bases of parties or partisanships but on shared values, world views, and interests.
Does the lobby speak for American Jews on this one? And will powerful American Jews give Obama room to confront Lieberman?
Thank God not all Jews are on board with this. Here is an interesting site: link to
Some of the positive comments on that site are from Muslims who are amazed that not all Jews support Zionism.
call them here is the number (212) 885-7970
This is NYC branch of ADL. Call them and politely ask how can ADL support an Israeli government that includes a Fascist like Lieberman?
"American Jews" need to do some serious soul-searching as to whether or not they are members of the Jewish Zionist Fifth Column (JZFC — aka, "The Israel Lobby") or not. If not, they better start going balls to the wall, openly and as Jews, against the JZFC, including clear members of the JZFC within the Obama administration like Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod.
America is in a "long war" against the JZFC and its two-party collaborators, and Jews who are not part of the JZFC are in that war whether they want to be or not. No more sitting on the fence, because as Jews, you have already been implicated by your Zionist contemporaries as co-conspirators. Better to correct the record they have presumed to construct for you that you are not.
I am actually beginning to believe that all those of us that support the Palestinians have to do is wait patiently for Israel to self-destruct. For example, the first two things that this new administration did was to declare that Annapolis is dead (Lieberman), thereby poking its fingers into the eyes of its Western supporters, and to make threatening noises about an imminent attack on Iran (Bibi). Interestingly, Israel will, in the short term at least, get away with the first faux pas– the second one is the more serious threat. And when I say, "threat," I mean to Israel itself, for if Israel goes through with an attack on Iran, I don't see how it can ever, ever survive in its current form.
People who don't understand the petroleum industry and the oil economy don't appreciate what such an attack would do to the world economy, which is already on a precipice. Israel would go from being generally unloved to being the most despised regime on the planet in a matter of days, were it to launch an unprovoked attack on Iran. The effects of the attack would last at least a decade, and the world economy might never recover to past levels as a result.
Oil would shoot to 150$ a barrel, which would make any recovery in the oil dependent US completely untenable– the Chinese would then stop buying US treasuries, they would sell their dollar holdings, and would finally demand that the US decrease spending precipitiously, which would cause the US to suddenly retract from its "imperial" commitments. It would be terrible for all Americans if it happened– countless Americans would lose their job, but the silver lining would be that Israel would lose any claim on legitimacy that it once had. The world community would impose the one-state solution, and that would be the end of story.
I used to think the ADL was in the same league as the ACLU. Now they are in cahoots with genuine fascists. WTF. Was the ADL always smarmy and I just got snookered, or have they changed over the last 30 years? Does anyone know when A. Foxman took over?
Colin,
According to wikipedia, Foxman has been with the ADl since 1965, first in its international affairs division, and then becoming director in 1987.
As for shady activities, check out this article about the ADL's settlement of a spying lawsuit that dates back to activities of the early 90s and prior. I knew one of the plaintiffs in the suit, an ex-pat anti-Zionist Israeli.
http://www.counterpunch.org/adlspying2.html
Israel welcomes the world's contempt; it only confirms their own victimhood.
There's also a website called "adlwatch" ( link to webshells.com
).
I can't personally vouch for the site and I'm not sure if they've got another agenda other than a distrust of the ADL. But they do have a collection of links to articles over the years that put the ADL in a less than favorable light, including the spying case and reports that the ADL was one source for unsubstantiated lists of names of numerous "communists"and "fellow travelers" that were given to HUAC (the House Un-American Activities Committee, a McCarthy era witch-hunting Congressional Committee of the late forties and fifties.)
Thanks for the link, tree.
DOES SITTING BACK PATIENTLY WAITING FOR THESE BEASTS TO SELF DESTRUCT APPLY TO THE DAMAGE THEY ARE WREAKING IN OUR OWN COUNTRIES, THE US AND CANADA?
WITH CREATURES LIKE THIS IN POWER, THE WORLD IS IN A TERRIBLE STATE. AND THEY DARE TO CALL OTHER PEOPLE TERRORISTS WHEN THEY ALL COME FROM TERRORIST BLOOD ITSELF?
I NEVER THOUGHT I WOULD HAVE TO GET OFF THE WALL AND DECLARE, BUT THAT TIME HAS COME AND I DECLARE FOR HUMANITY.
anan: "This is NYC branch of ADL. Call them and politely ask how can ADL support an Israeli government that includes a Fascist like Lieberman?
Maybe not a good idea ADL would probably put a phone tap on you…
http://www.counterpunch.org/adlspying2.html
Ha! oops someone beat me to it.
ADL Watch belongs to our own dear Jeffrey Blankfort, though my impression is that he seldom updates it.
Jews Against Zionism belongs to the radical wing of Neturei Karta, which is itself the radical wing of the Satmar hassidim, and their opposition to zionism is based on their ultra-Orthodox Judaism. There are quite a few radical anti-zionist Christians in the USA who like to ignore the fact that Neturei Karta's opposition to zionism, like all ultra-Orthodoxy, is based on an extremely rigid reading of the Talmud. The radical Christians would like to imagine that these anti-zionists are also anti-talmud, since this would coincide with their own, radical Christian, interpretation of what is wrong with Judaism. However, in reality, the only actually existing anti-Talmud Jews, the Karaites, are gung-ho for zionism. They have to be, in order to gain the grudging permission of the Jewish State to actually live there, and they have nowhere else to go. I explain all this for Rebecca's benefit, since she mentioned Jews Against Zionism without any explanation at the top of this comments thread.
Didn't Lieberman actually say that Israel is not bound to the 2007 Annapolis agreement and instead intends to follow the 2003 road map?
"At a ceremony Wednesday marking the start of Lieberman's tenure as Israel's foreign minister, Lieberman said, "There is only one document that binds us and it is not the Annapolis conference," which restarted peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
He said Israel's government only adopted the 2002 "road map," and that Israel will adhere to its requirements scrupulously. Lieberman pointed out that the road map requires the Palestinians to stop terrorism and set up a viable government."
http://jta.org/news/article/2009/04/01/1004164/lieberman-israel-not-obligated-by-annapolis
Muslims who are amazed
I for one welcome our Islamic overlords, provided they acknowledge that Freedom-to-worship contains Freedom-to-refrain-from worshipping.
Madrid's point is very important. I think Liberman and Bibi have lost touch with reality. If they start a war with Iran, and ESPECIALLY if we are drawn into it in our current economic state, the backlash against Israel will be massive. If the organized Jewish community and the (now-outed) neocons support such a war, they likely will also become a target for popular rage.
Regarding Ed's point, I think now is the time for Jewish Americans to be prepared (if you haven't already) to cut any ropes that may be tying you to the madman running towards the cliff.
@ Rowan,
What is the radical Islamist and radical Leftist interpretation of what is wrong with Judaism? And what is the radical Islamic-Leftist (your expertise) interpretation?
My interpretation of what's wrong with Judaism is that nothing is wrong with Judaism except a failure to contain it's Jewish Zionist manifestation, just as there is nothing wrong with Islam except a failure to contain its Islamist manifestation.
Whom is it incumbent upon to contain both? The Christian West. But we now live in the post-Christian West, and so there is nothing strong enough to contain either — which means perpetual war for all.
Perhaps you believe Islamic-Leftism or Socialism can supplant the Christian West’s containment abilities? I don’t know about that. The Jewish Zionists seem to be doing pretty well co-opting the post-Christian, Corporatist-Socialist West’s governments so far. But perhaps that's where you believe Islamic-Leftism can step in.
Please enlighten me.
Ed, I am not interested in trying to knock down your straw men.
Conference of Presidents: "The special relationship was never determined on the bases of parties or partisanships but on shared values, world views, and interests."
America and Israel have never had shared values, not at Israel's founding and certainly not today. If they did, Israel wouldn't need AIPAC to continually pressure Washington whenever cracks appear.
On second thoughts, if not for Ed's benefit, then for Suzanne's at least: I do have an item that I put on my blog yesterday that may enlighten, or even amuse, regading my own views (especially the comments, but the song is a cracker, too):
link to niqnaq.wordpress.com
Rowan, get back to me when you have some kind of coherent ideology and have outgrown MTV-type videos. (At your age of 58, I won't hold my breath.)
why should I get back to you Ed? What do you imagine you have that i should want?
Lieberman is doing harm right out of the box.
Where is the Israeli Gandhi?
Yep….didn't realize that the earlier roadmap didn't require a freeze on settlements.
I do hope Israel gets international pressure on this–from its friends–not the idiot boycotters and Jew haters.
Israel doesn't regard people who pressure it as its friends, Suzanne, it regards them as idiot boycotters and Jew haters, just like you do.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…go chew on some haggis.
that's the childlike, inconsequential Suzanne we all know and love, how nice to see it back again. Sounding grown-up must be so tiring, and it doesn't altogether suit her, at least not for extended periods.