Most of my posts are hard work. I'm sorry. I've always tried to be light of heart. Never could get there. Recently my friend Max told me I'm tormented, and it was a gift. I'm tormented! Well here is a funny exchange between Louis Proyect, a Marxist anti-Zionist Jew, and Edmund S. Beck of Scholars for Peace in the Middle East, a hasbara group. Proyect gets under Beck's skin. Feels very generational, and absurd.
Excerpt from a Proyect letter:
I wrote back:
Wake up. Israel is not perceived the way it was in the 1950s when my mother was president of Hadassah in her Catskill Mountains village.
Its foreign minister has been openly promoting “population transfer” of the kind that the Turks used against Armenians and Andrew Jackson used against the Cherokees.And stop using the holocaust as an excuse to promote ethnic cleansing.
It is quite frankly disgusting.
I find the tone of the posts by you and Andy to be just about perfect and you certainly are prolific. You really picked a tough line of work and you are doing an effective job with this website.
All this Israel falling off the earth stuff is crap. It can't fall off the earth because of gravity, it's signtific. If Israel became unstuck it would just drift to the bottom of the planet. It would ram Antartica, but it wouldn't fall off. Duh, get a brain morans! (sorry, had to let off steam)
"I find the tone of the posts by you and Andy to be just about perfect and you certainly are prolific. You really picked a tough line of work and you are doing an effective job with this website." I agree. And from what I've seen over the past few months I've been reading this blog steady; you guys caught fire a few weeks ago- you have simply left the hasbara brigade choking in your dust. Left 'em far, far behind. Ah, but don't worry, hasbaristniks! There's a whole new generation of young American Jews who want nothing more than to move to a settlements and live a hardscrabble, hate-centered existence. Just put a gate on the settlement with a guardhouse, and call it "Cantorwood" or "Epsom Downs" or maybe "Sussex" or even "Moresex" and they'll think they're in an exclusive suburb.
This "Marxist Jew" might also have mentioned the population transfers that took place in the Soviet Union, particularly the transfer of millions of kulaks in the early 30's that undoubtedly involved the enthusiastic participation of Jewish Bolsheviks. In fact, wouldn't that be the more pertinent comparison given that it is other Jewish ideologues in Israel that she is scrutinizing, and was far more recent than Andrew Jackson? But she's got a Marxist political agenda, so just like the Jewish Zionist, she only sees what she wants to see. The common hypocrisy and propensity towards compartmentalization is remarkable. And both are incredibly politically self-absorbed. It's no wonder that the Neocons came out of the Left — and brought their mental conditions with them.
Snippet of the "funny exchange" between the two subject Jews: [Anti-Zionist]: If you think that the “Sixty Minutes” segment comparing Israel to South Africa was bad, you have seen nothing yet. If you want people to stop comparing Israel to fascists, then stop acting like fascists. [Zionist:] > Study your history, learn about Jews before Israel even about life in > America with quotas etc here and you will learn that life has gotten > good for Jews in America since the establishment of the state of Israel. [Anti-Zionist:] I don’t care if life is “good” for Jews if it is bad for the people it victimizes. Israel trained and armed the Guatemalan army in the 1980s, which has the blood of poor Indian peasants on its hands. Disgusting. [Zionist:] > Again, your tone is abusive and lacks any integrity. Come to me when > you know something, not when you think you know everything. > Good luck. [Anti-Zionist:] I actually know quite a bit. I have read Heinrich Graetz’s history of the Jews and, more to the point, was a Zionist in the early 1960s. It was Israeli barbarism that turned me into an anti-Zionist. Looks like the two have very different notions of integrity. Guess which one is the humanist, which one the tribalist?
This exchange, which wouldn't have gotten this far without the Anti-Zionist stating initially he was a full-fledged Jew, is a direct pointer of how courageous a Gentile has to be to criticize Israeli policy. Considering the USA is at least 97% Gentile, wouldn't you say the USA has a major problem? Who's the real stranger in this strange land the USA has become?
Ed, the marxists were completely screwed by the subsequent government. it's like blaming Jesus Christ for the massacre of Jerusalem during the first Crusade.
Oh, yes. The tired old "Revolution was betrayed," line. In every country where Communism has been put into action and invariably resulted in State-engineered mass murder at home and/or abroad, "The Revolution was betrayed." Sorry, but any system that is that easily and inevitably co-opted by "traitors" is obviously either a power-grabbing ruse, or fatally flawed structurally, or both. And the structural flaw should be obvious. Like the pre-Reformation Church, government-centered, Party conspiracies become so big, so unaccountable, so corrupt, so monopolistic and so self-righteous and arrogant that they believe themselves to be invincible and ideologically inevitable. They end up suffering from monolithic group-think, and use their monopoly on force to back up their ideological certitude. Frankly, I'm not interested in trading Plutocratic Statism (Bush) for Trotskyite Statism (Obama). They both end in the same place: totalitarianism. In fact, idiots like Bush and the Neocons have set us on the road to Trotskyism. Why would anyone want to continue further down the path that those fools started us on? Centralized power is corrupt and corrupting.
The only difference between the "humanist" Jewish Marxist and the "fascist" Jewish Zionist is the number of people each wants to use Statism to subjugate. The Jewish Zionist wants to use the authoritarian Jewish state to carve up the Levant, whereas the Jewish Marxist wants to use the authoritarian Communist state to carve up the world.
I believe that Ed is what they call a troll.
Never expect the politically self-absorbedto be able to differentiate. It's hard to get a broader view from inside a rigid image of the enemy rampart. His narrative in a nutshell: Secular, humanist, leftist Jews = the forces of the anti-Christ. Zionists = fascists. It goes without saying that the leftists are responsible for all evil in the 20th century, ultimately they forced the Nazis to kill the Jews. You can put this more simple: The Jews are responsible for the Holocaust. The only solution: the return to the kingdom of Christ on Earth. A new Christian era in all it's purity.
So of course the first thing I did was google “Scholars for Peace in the Middle East” and track down the website, and more importantly, the board members to see if I could find an email address to launch a torpedo or two against. Usually, the recipients ignore me understanding full well that I don’t have both oars in the water, especially when it comes to Israel, but this time I managed to get under the skin of Edward S. Beck the Co-Founder and President- Emeritus, USA. I am not sure if he got under his skin, I actually doubt it, but this passage is hilarious. Now this is interesting, so far I heard this argument only from Richard Witty: **************************** Beck responded: And you talk about genocide and murder and not being for peace and you don’t care if Israel fell off the earth. Study your history, learn about Jews before Israel even about life in America with quotas etc here and you will learn that life has gotten good for Jews in America since the establishment of the state of Israel. Again, your tone is abusive and lacks any integrity. Come to me when you know something, not when you think you know everything. Good luck. ********************************* It's a pity he didn't ask him for more evidence for this cause and effect theory. I missed to ask Richard when he wrote it.
All perspective are allowed at this site, little miss Marxist. Jack Ross is a conservative. Phil Weiss writes for the American Conservative. I know free speech is an alien and hostile concept to authoritarian Statist Communists, but it's still allowed in America, even if the neo-Bolsheviks are trying to wrench the window closed.
Ed, Ed, Ed, the kings of Trotskyite Statism were Wolfowitz, Feith, et al. They were weaned on it.
Thanks for putting words in my mouth, LeaNder. You Lefties can't rebut what I actually say, so instead you construct a straw man and then beat it about. Did you learn that technique from hasbara, or did hasbara learn it from the Left? Whichever, you're intellectually dishonest and ignoble birds of a feather.
no need for straw men, dear Chrissy. It was simply in a nutshell, an attempt at occam's-razor-entertainment.
Louis Proyect is great. I also loved his comment, in the extended version of his remarks that Mondoweiss links to, about Yul Brynner. Let's hear more from Proyect!
I believe that Ed is what they call a troll. Unfortunately not. Chris Moore, the Editor, seems to represent a distinct type of American Libertarians. Maybe there a branch that has hardened the ideological core into a rather rigid mental architecture. That's why he sees "ideologues" anywhere. http://www.libertariantoday.com/ Does that fit your definition of troll?
RE: "Duh, get a brain morans! " MY COMMENT: That's moron, you moran!
What about 'HOLLYWOODLAND' complete with the sign! SEE – http://www.beachwoodcanyon.org/HISTORY.htm
"This "Marxist Jew" might also have mentioned the population transfers that took place in the Soviet Union, particularly the transfer of millions of kulaks in the early 30's that undoubtedly involved the enthusiastic participation of Jewish Bolsheviks." For your information Ed, they were completely famischst over it, totally verklempt. They felt very sorry for the kulaks and couldn't sleep many nights, such guilt they had inside. But you don't care, you Cossack!
No, Ed, that there were Jews, whether active or non-performing, in the beuracracy and leadership of the Soviet Union I do not doubt. Very likely there were. What I can't figure out is why Communism or Bolshevism is therefore a "Jewish" thing. Bolshevism and Communism is no more universal among Jews than Zionism. If there is some essential facet of Judaism or Jewishness which makes Jews and Communism a perfect match, please, let us know what it is. As far as I knew, conflating Jews and Communists is pretty standard right-wing American nativist nonsense. You know, the kind of stuff "the rest of us" all think.
" "humanist" Jewish Marxist" See, Ed, I knew you could do it! I knew you could conflate "Humanist" and "Marxist" and "Jewish"! Now, all you got to do is get "secular" in there, and you hit the Robert Welch Trifecta! Sure, Ed, "humanist" is just like "Marxist"! Yeah, if the got any closer, one would be behind the other! And again, what the hell is a "Jewish Marxist" ? I don't remember any time left over from learning my Haftorah to get the kind of economic grounding which would have made it possible to participate in the dialectic. So Eddy, just so we have this straight: You blame "the Jews" for the Soviet Union, right? The "evil empire" that was on a nuclear hair-trigger with the US, and persecuted its own citizens and employed vast amounts of slave labor. This is all due to "the Jews"? Am I getting it right?
Woops, I somehow read the name as Louise (instead of Lou). I wasn't being flip by addressing you as a she. Apologies. I wouldn't deliberately do that, even to a Marxist. Sorry.
Ed, you are right about free speech, that's for sure. "Blogger" is free, and you can start a blog any time you like, and even dis-allow comments. But I am sorry to tell you that there is nothing in the Constitution which guarantees you the right to spout what you found in your Daddy's left-over 1950's style John Birch pamphlets and not be laughed at. And you can't keep repeating the same anti-Semitic phrases like "Jewish Marxists" and not get called on it. If you think free speech means that anybody is required to tolerate your nonsense, given any way of answering it, I would find that belief quite consistent with all the rest you've shown us.
I agree with you JamesNorth. Very funny how Proyect worked that Yul in there, utterly seamless, snappy, quick, and made such a huge point all by itself. Of course Beck ignored it, which supports droll LeaNder apropos Richard Witty. "Integrity"'s rollup was great too–and how often Witty tries to be both humanist and Zionist when the two states of being are not compatible in an integrated mind, one that has… integrity.
But one can be a humanist Jewish Marxist, per Ed. Doesn't seem hunky-dory to me.
That's very sharp of you to notice. Anything else you see wrong in there?
I was joking! There was a widely circulated photo of a "teabagger" who had a handmade poster wherein he had misspelled moron as 'moran'.
The "teabagger's" poster read: Get A BRAIN! MORANS IMAGE – link to politicalhumor.about.com
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Actually, the photo apparently predates "teabagging". FROM URBAN DICTIONARY – 1. moran 518 up, 120 down Anyone with an opposing view. Get a brain morans! Go USA!!! by trimbandit Jun 29, 2004 share this moran images Moran 2. Moran348 up, 62 down The ironic way to spell moron. "Get a brain! Morans" by do I have to put something here? Jun 6, 2005 share this 3. Moran235 up, 74 down The preferred method of spelling "moron" by morons, particularly that of a Missouri redneck at a rally supporting the US led war in Iraq. Get a brain, moran! GO USA! by nevesis Aug 19, 2006 share this SOURCE – http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mo...
Oops. That'll teach me. It was that picture that gave me the idea in the first place.