Further evidence of the deep political/spiritual crisis that Israel is in. Israel's biggest newspaper did a poll showing that 58 percent of Israeli Jews are for the two state solution, but the populace is sharply divided; and the young are agin it.
The poll further revealed that 70% of Israel's religious population, including the ultra-Orthodox, is opposed to the establishment of an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel, while 73% of the country's secular Jews support it.
Additionally, some 53% of Israeli Jews up to the age of 30 are against the two-state solution, while 46% of them are in favor of it; 63% of Israeli Jews over the age of 50 also support the establishment of a Palestinian state, while only 32% oppose the US-backed solution.
Thanks to Ali Gharib for the tip. He writes:
In a conflict where semantics play such an important role, I think it's
worth noting that the YNet article was careful to say, again and again,
that the poll was of Israeli Jews — not just Israelis. Sort of leaves
you wondering what Palestinian Citizens of Israel
(PCOI) think of the two state solution. At 20 percent of the
population, one might imagine that their overwhelming support of
two-states might push the total number above the two-thirds marker.
Similarly, with this Arab birthrate we keep hearing so much about, one
also must wonder whether the number of those under 30 would be more in
favor of two-states were the PCOI included.
(Also: my bad for describing the polled as Israelis in first iteration; it's Israeli Jews.)
500 respondents is a really small poll (as reflected by the high error margin (4.5 %). On these grounds it's more honest to say the issue breaks about 50/50. Additional problem: what is understood by two-state solution?
With polls like that the outcome to a large extent depends on how concrete the idea is. If you ask should the Israeli arabs be expelled you'll get a minority in favor. If you describe things in a more fuzzy manner , wouldn't it be nice if they left, shoudn't they be encouraged to leave, you'll probably get a majority. With a palestinian state, the more concrete the idea the lower the support for it. Currently the idea of a two-state-solution feels somewhere in the middle: pretty vague but already concrete enough to make people feel uncomfortable.
Another question is, of those who are against the two-state solution, what do they favor? Do the young want Israel to rule over semi-autonomous Palestinian bantustans, or do they want Israel to kick the Palestinians out of Palestine entirely and establish Greater Israel as a Jewish state, or do they favor a one-state model where Jews and Palestinians live as equals? The poll (or at least the report of the poll) doesn't tell us what people want instead of two states. Consequently it's not really all that informative.
On a side note. I was just reading Amira Hass in todays Haaretz. I checked in the comment section and read over and over the constant slant: "what do they expect, they voted for Hamas". I wonder how they would react standing in the ruins of Tel Aviv. You asked for it…. you voted for Bibi. That is such a sick way to look at the situation. Don't they have any shrinks over there? Are they all in New York or Beverly HIlls?
in similar vein, i am for 2 farm solution. jews get a space in the pig pen and a cage in the chicken coop. permission will be needed for pig jews and chicken jews to interact in any way. jews responsible for cleaning living spaces. nothing leaves their living spaces.
Its not a surprise that there is a generation gap in Israel. Those that are 35 +, experienced the series of wars on Israel, international terror, the intifada, but then the prospect of reconciliation of Oslo and post-Oslo implementation and subsequent agreements. Those under 35, those that came of age in the 90's and after, experienced instead of hope, disappointment and worse, intimate terror. The formative conclusions were NOT to distrust their government, and their military, but to need it. There are now children and grandchildren of the kibbutzim largely that still comprise the refusniks, but they are a minority, and they live knowing the internal conflict of being targets of terror, that is still promised and actually attempted. For example, the discovery of Hezbollah cells in the Sinai, with supporters within Israel, and fairly large arms caches, convinces by the reality of it. It would take a GREAT DEAL more courage for an Israeli to urge reconciliation ignoring defense, than for us. And by us, I mean me as well. But, importantly, I also mean Phil. He still has not reported on any effort on his part to take the time to interview thoroughly and respectfully, those that have opposing views to his own. In the past, he was willing to interview and report fairly on perspectives that I expect he personally considered reprehensible. He hasn't here yet though. He hasn't returned to Israel to interview settlers. He is only planning to interview Gazans from what has been reported. That needs to happen. He should see with his own eyes, and hear reliable stories and report on them. He should also see with his own eyes the experience of Israelis, of defensive (and even offensive) Jews, as he was willing to see with his own eyes the experience of American militia-men (defensive and offensive).
I'm not sure personally, if ANY are in fact for peace, Israelis, Palestinians, left, US, Iran, Arab states. The only one that I'm confident about is Abdullah of Jordan.
I too hope that Phil makes time to interview some of the settlers and to see them in action. Close encounters with religious fanatics who believe they have the God-given right to live on someone else's land and stone their children, would certainly help to erase any ambivalence that Phil might still have about becoming an anti-Zionist.