Mairav Zonszein, Antony Loewenstein and Joseph Dana write:
The occupation can seem predictably mundane from a distance. To most Israelis the settlement project is seen as a problem, but a problem happening “over there” and utterly removed from their lives. Rampaging settlers are viewed occasionally on television. Violent Palestinians are seen to resist for no apparent reason. The international community and Barack Obama are protesting the illegal outposts and ongoing colonial project in the West Bank with polls suggesting that many Israelis are opposed to this apparently unfair pressure.
They should spend a day in the West Bank.
For the last three months, Israeli Ta’ayush activists have been accompanying Palestinian farmers from Safa to their lands just below the settlement of Bat Ayin. Since a child from the settlement was murdered in April, settlers have been consistently attacking Palestinians when they attempt to work in their fields, as well as burning the fields themselves – all under the nose of the IDF, which has done nothing to prevent the crimes or punish them.
The scenes from Safa in this period have been grim. If it is not the settlers aggressively driving out the local farmers, it is the army, which acts in complete disregard of Israeli Supreme Court rulings. After weeks of confrontations and brutal arrests, the army seemed to realize that we would not go away, and they would have to change their tactics.
Two weeks ago the army issued a 45-day closed military zone order on the agricultural land of Safa for all Israelis and internationals, asserting that our services would not be needed any longer, as they would ensure the Palestinians could work their land with the army’s protection. In these two weeks, Ta’ayush decided to respect the order and see if the army would indeed deliver on what it promised. However, during this time, the settlers infiltrated the agricultural land of Safa and cut down fruit trees and burned crop fields. Thus, despite the area being a closed military zone for all Israelis, somehow the settlers managed to get past the IDF and commit crimes.
This morning we went back to Safa. As Palestinian Ta’ayush activist Issa Slevi told us later, “The soldiers are settlers but in uniform. They both symbolize the occupation.”
After a local family gave us a sugary glass of tea under a blackberry tree, a large group of Ta’ayush activists and internationals from the International Solidarity Movement and Palestine Solidarity Project walked through the village of Safa towards the fields. The town itself is dusty, with some homes half-finished while other structures have circular staircases on the outside. “I Love Hamas” was sprayed in English on a wall. Children pointed and waved while the women stood together and smiled. Some men led the procession of around 50 people, including the Palestinians. Accredited journalists, from Reuters and Lebanese media, followed. One even held a gas mask, expecting tear-gas.
It was Saturday and the settlers on the nearby hill were virtually invisible. Their houses and caravans sat illegally nearby. A number of IDF soldiers soon appeared on a horizon and approached from the other end of the dirt track. A confrontation was inevitable. The aim was to accompany the Palestinian farmers to their land in the gorge to protect against settler attacks. In the past, activists were physically assaulted and beaten with batons by the IDF so we expected the worst. We didn’t predict two hours of heated debate and political discussion.
The soldiers announced that the Palestinians were allowed to pass on their own and tend their fields. The farmers were highly skeptical because settlers would likely attack them. Some activists pushed the IDF to join the Palestinians but they were denied access. Minor scuffles ensued. Supreme Court orders were produced to explain a 2006 ruling that refused the military being able to impose a “closed military zone” to prevent Palestinians working their fields. The IDF regularly breaks the law of its own country, let alone international law. Activists see it every week.
Unlike previous encounters, the IDF commander seemed like a reasonable man, urging restraint from his men and trying to avoid contact. It was a fruitless task, as the soldiers seemed incapable or unwilling to understand the Palestinian hesitance to farm on their own. One old Palestinian farmer, the owner of the area, arrived. He rode down the path on a donkey, alighted, and walked with a stick. He was highly agitated and screamed at the soldiers. He lifted his shirt after a while to show bruise marks caused by settlers.
Eventually Palestinians decided to pass, both men and women, while a number of activists sat down in front of the soldiers. Others milled around. Video cameras and cameras were in abundance, possible explaining the less aggressive approach of the soldiers. This didn’t stop them from arresting 10 people, who were all detained briefly and released soon after. The activists – who did not resist arrest – knew that if brought before a judge, the army would have been found to have acted illegally. This explains why so often the army releases them before it can happen.
The location of the encounter was actually beautiful. A gorge sat at the bottom of a valley, with green fields and olive groves dotting the landscape.
As we waited and sat under a tree to find some shade, an IDF soldier approached us “to talk about the issues.” He was an American Jew around 30 who had made “aliya” to Israel in 1997. He was not a religious fanatic but argued rationally, despite the confused nature of his argument. He initially acknowledged the Palestinians were under occupation then later said the land was “disputed” and had been given by Jordan. He said the IDF was a “humanitarian model” to the world.
We asked if he’d read the recent Breaking the Silence report on alleged atrocities in Gaza. He said he had not but criticized the soldiers for staying anonymous. When challenged about the use of white phosphorous in civilian areas, he replied that it was not illegal to do so. In fact, it is illegal to use the destructive weapon for anything other than flares and certainly not in civilian areas. Countless human rights groups have accused Israel of using the weapon during its war against Gaza in December and January.
The soldier said he saw himself as protecting the settlers, Palestinians and activists, though we reminded him that the IDF usually only protects the settlers and covers their crimes. We agreed that the potential for confrontation between all parties was high. But why remove the peaceful non-violent leftists? The settlers were the most violent party in Safa. Why doesn’t his unit bar them from entering the gorge and allow us to farm with the Palestinians? He dismissed this question outright. Although he didn’t reside in a settlement, he mumbled something defensive when challenged why the Israelis hadn’t prevented the burning of the fields in the last days and weeks.
He seemed a little conflicted about his role in the territories, despite his arrogant air. He defended the killing of civilians – “you know what Colin Powell said during the invasion of Panama? In war, there’s always collateral damage” – but he was open to alternative views. We joked that it would take a while doing drugs in India to get over his conscience after the things he’d seen and done in the West Bank.
It was a strange discussion, though largely friendly and slightly accusatory. A case-study of the soldier would probably reveal a deep-seated need to defend his actions. He constantly talked about “protecting Israeli democracy” though his main job is protecting the settlement project. Palestinians despise their presence, even if violent resistance is relatively uncommon these days.
We disagreed amongst ourselves to the importance of engagement with IDF soldiers. Joseph wasn’t convinced of the necessity, believing the actions of the man spoke far louder than words. Ultimately, he defended the occupation. Antony was more circumspect and wondered if such encounters could contribute to a slow, changing attitude within the soldiers. Joseph argued that things were desperate when even the seemingly decent Israelis were finding ways to defend the situation.
After we left Safa, we briefly visited Issa Slevi’s home in Beit Umar, a long-time believer in non-violent action, in a room with a high ceiling. As we drank hibiscus juice and then piping, hot tea, he told us about the reality of constant IDF harassment of towns and fields. “The media presents the Palestinians as murderers and terrorists and the Israelis as victims”, he said. “The whole world identifies with the Israelis.”
Slevi spoke of a time when his hope for a resolution in the early 1990s had inspired him to distribute flowers to soldiers. But today he was despondent about Fatah – “an Oslo puppet regime” – and damned the “peace process” of the 1990s. It has produced nothing more than settlements and settler violence. He compared the situation in Palestine to the Jim Crow period in the US, “when there were signs that were for ‘dogs only.’ Today, the situation is the same for the Palestinians but there are no signs.”
Despite all the abuse and violence, Slevi was fundamentally opposed to violence. He never spoke to settlers. He wanted a country where both peoples could interact and mingle freely, regardless of religion and political affiliation.
The day was relatively normal in an utterly foreign reality.
Related posts:
- Settler arson and vandalism go uninvestigated
- Israeli army ups the violence against activists in the West Bank
- Settlers, farmers, solders, internationals–Max Blumenthal reports from ‘Greater Israel’
- Ordered to protect Palestinian farmers, the IDF protects Israeli settlers instead
- Activists stage picnic to show Israeli military’s double standard when it comes to West Bank settlers
{ 89 comments }
Thank you for what you are doing to bring these self-destructive activities of the Israeli Government to light. It's so shameful.
I can't figure out why the "settlers" would be upset. The Palestinians only murdered a child and tried to kill another.
Let's see now. Arab farmers claim land somewhere. The Israeli courts find that these Arab farmers have no legal claims on some of these fields while there are competing claims with documented ownership. Arab farmers get upset and murder a Jewish child. Jews get upset that their children are – yet again! – being targetted by Arab murderers. Foreign phony "Human Rights" activists are outraged…. that the Arab land thieves can't get hold of the fields they stole! Murdered children? That's not a problem. They were Jewish children! Not a Human Rights problem! MondoHypocrites.
yeah. before that, the settlers always treated the Palestinians whose land they were standing on with kindness and respect. imbecile.
What are the colonial settlers doing there? A million olive trees have been uprooted, hundreds of farms destroyed, do they all represent the killing of a child that should not be there in the first place? The "dhimmi" needs to shimmy down the road – get the hell off other peoples property thieves
Why isn't there more activity exposing these atrocities? Where has everyone gone? Here is an apropos song – http://ch.indymedia.org/media/2005/08/34659.mp3
Good grief! They out-Nazi the Nazis. The Nazis never claimed they were "humanitarians".
"Arab farmers?" Not Palestinian farmers? For those us of who can't quite follow you, please explain to us, once again, why Palestinians are not a people.
The murder of the Jewish child was terrible but no more terrible than the murder of PALESTINIAN children, several of whom have been killed over the years by criminal settler thugs. Far more PALESTINIAN children have been killed courtesy of IDF missiles or IDF sharpshooters. The death of any child is reason to mourn but I hope understand that an incredibly greater number of PALESTINIAN children have died as a result of both IDF and settler violence. Maybe that doesn't you. But does the fact that his child was killed give these vile settler scum the right to persecute PALESTINIANS who have farmed the land for many years before these settlers immigrated from their homes in Russia or the U.S. to the OCCUPIED TERRITORIES? If someone killed a child from a village in America and the citizens of that village went on a rampage in the village of the killer, those rampagers would face a court of law. In the West Bank, the rampagers get off scot free so that they can commit their evil deeds once more. I have capitalized the name PALESTINIAN just so that you can get it through your head that while they are Arabs, they are also PALESTINIAN. This is no different than if people referred to Jewish citizens of America not as Americans but as Jews. I think most Jews would consider that to be a sign of prejudice and take rightful umbrage.
I was amazed at these ta 'ayush phonies who only care about face time on TV and the Arabs. Two Jewish children were attacked by a Paletinian terrorist, one killed and it's dismissed as though it's nothing at all. Just a small matter.
Jake and dhimmi, just as a general rule of thumb, for future reference merely, where do you draw the line between inconveniencing the Palestinians with a few crop fires and gassing them en masse? Or is that "legal" too?
So sad. The settlers use their children as shields while they steal Palestinian lands. Then one of them happens to get killed. A new martyr, an excuse to steal more Palestinian land! It is always the fault of the Palestinians.
I am certain that the courageous members of Ta'ayush are not doing what they are doing for what you describe as "face time on TV and Arabs." These good people go often to help the Palestinian farmers who are under threat from the settler scum who are bent on driving the Palestinians out by destroying their crops. uprooting or cutting down their olive and fruit trees and often beating the farmers. This settler scum is allowed to have weapons while Palestinians could never walk around with similar weapons in order to defend themselves from the likes of the scum that live in many of the settlements. Were it not for courageous Israelis, Palestinians and internationals the world would not know what the settler scum are doing. The good people of Ta'ayush are not only threatened by the settlers but also by the IDF that has no hesitation in arresting them, beating them, shooting them or using tear gas. They show great courage and humanitarianism in their work protecting the farmers and let Palestinians know that all Israelis are not bad people. I doubt that the members of Ta'ayush are dismissing the death of the Jewish children but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if you and the settler scum don't dismiss the death of Palestinian children.
Not a small matter at all. Quite tragic really. Settlers use their children as shields to steal Palestinian land. Child dies. Settlers now have another martyr to justify stealing more Palestinian lands. If Israel had child abuse statutes that meant anything, his parents would be in jail today.
Yawn. Activists attempt to subvert our court system because it is weak. I am hoping for new reforms.
–used to be, no one would dare call the Israelis scum. Then a few perceptive radicals, on learning of Israel's decades of stomach-turning cruelty and inhumanity started to apply it. Now, it's pretty much the norm among informed observers. It's basically a truism. This is the reaction normal people have when confronted with a group that behaves as the israelis behave.
"The Palestinians" didn't murder anyone. One man killed the child and he was caught and confessed. The rest of the village is not collectively responsible for one man's actions, so the attack against the farmers is in a sense a pogrom. An attempt to collectively blame and punish all the Palestinians in the village. If you think that it is OK to punish a village for the actions of one, what is your opinion of culpability of a village(or settlement in this case) for the violent actions, including murdering a child, of an organized group of many? Or are Jews exempt from your rules about the correctness of collective punishment? http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-ea... "An extreme right Jewish settler convicted under counter-terrorism legislation for membership of an organisation that killed eight Palestinian civilians was jailed for eight years yesterday. Shahar Dvir-Zeliger, a member of the "new Jewish underground" was also found guilty in Jerusalem district court of illegal possession of arms stolen from the Israeli Defence Forces stores. Zeliger belonged to the "Bat Ayin" group, held responsible for several attacks including one which killed a baby, and an ambush on a car in July, 2001, in which three Palestinians were shot dead." (snip)"Eight people were arrested on the basis of the defendant's testimony, most of whom were subsequently released for lack of evidence. Although Zeliger admitted last year that he was a member of a group that shot Palestinians to death, police were unable to link Zeliger directly to the killings. But three members of the same group were convicted in 2003 for a bombing at a Palestinian school in east Jerusalem in 2002 that injured a teacher and four children. Four other Bat Ayin members, arrested with a bomb they were accused of planning to use against another Arab school, were released in a plea bargain." The boy who was injured was the son of one of those men convicted of the school bombing. The son should not have to pay for his father's sins, but it is exceedingly dishonest to pretend that all the settlers of Bat Ayin are merely poor put upon Jews. The attacks on Palestinians by some of the settlers started years before the sad death of young Nativ.
You must be talking about the settlers and the soldiers because they are the only ones subverting the Supreme Court decision allowing the farmers to tend to their crops.
Don't you just love the way Jake skirts around the video an insists this is about something else? This exposes how the IDF soldiers arbitrarily impose their idea of the rules until they are exposed, in which case, they run away and hide.
"Two Jewish children were attacked by a Paletinian terrorists" …and before that Palestinian children were killed by Israeli terrorist/IDF, but when you're a Zionist, history always begins when Israelis are hurt. That's what is truly amazing.
"where do you draw the line between inconveniencing the Palestinians with a few crop fires and gassing them en masse? " Wow, I wasn't aware that Israel were gassing Palestinians. Where are the gas chambers Jake? Do you live near any of them?
The activists attempt to subvert our court system because it is immoral and is on the wrong side of international law. Mins you, the IDF ignores the Supreme Court all the time, ie. blocking foreign journalists from entering Gaza.
International law insists unequivocally on Palestinian right of return. Exercise of this right would overnight restore the demographic balance of the region in which Jews were a minority prior to the ethnic cleansing the region. So it is no exaggeration to say that Israel is totally illegal. It is a state which ceases to be a state, the instant well-recognized international law is applied. It can exist ONLY as a rogue state.
It is interesting that the arguments trying to confound who lives in a territory were also used by the Apartheid group in South Africa. Their argument was "they are blacks, they can go where they like, they have a whole continent." It is exactly the same argument to try to confound the point of the Palestinians with the Arabs – just like the majority on the continent of Africa were black, so the majority of the individuals in the region of subject are Arab. They are NO DIFFERENT than the racists before them (or should I say during a portion of Israeli activity, it is no mistake that they were bosom buddies while Apartheid lasted). The US used to say there were indigenous population everywhere, that is why they tried to merge them sometimes from one part of the country to the other, after all they were just dirty redskins. Welcome to Israel, the longest standing colonial occupation extent today – murderous, and just as filthy if not more so than its predecessors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_sLNYDU1yQ
You can read it also, in the writings of people like Benny Morris, who says look at the great things that came out of what was done to the indigenous population in America. As even if the process that this greatness arose from was shooting children point blank in the head by the thousands – millions – oh yes, that would be acceptable. It is not much different (see recent Gaza massacre), and even read one of the great writers and poets of Israel struck to the core – CULTURE "The mark of Cain won't sprout from a soldier who shoots at the head of a child on a knoll by the fence around a refugee camp– for beneath his helmet, conceptually speaking, his head is made of cardboard. On the other hand, the officer has read The Rebel; his head is enlightened, and so he does not believe in the mark of Cain. He's spent time in museums, and when he aims his rifle at a boy as an ambassador of Culture, he updates and recycles Goya's etchings and Guernica." Aharon Shabtai
And when it’s all over, my dear, dear reader, on which benches will we have to sit, those of us who shouted “Death to the Arabs!” and those who claimed they “didn’t know”? — Nostalgia (2002), by Aharon Shabtai http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/news/2009/05/q...
Peace now is a foreign funded entity that uses our legal system against us
Shahar Dvir-Zeliger will probably be praised like the mass murderer Baruch Goldstein that some go to "honor," a pilgrimage site. http://www.mepc.org/journal_shahak/shahak48.asp What else can be expected – prime ministers who are mass murderers, people in high positions with no moral compass. A "government" which gets more extreme by the moment, whats next?
Anti-semite Lovelyisraelis
Jews own the land
Antisemite
And you seem to only exist as an anti-semite
bullshit
There is no such law and don't bother with UN resolutions they are not binding on international law. General Assembly resolutions are a dime a dozen.
A Jewish child was not killed but murdered. People who can't wrap their heads around something like that will never appreciate the subtleties that the M E is built on. Their "advice" and comments won't help anyone, either.
1) There is no difference between West Bank Arabs who have called themselves "Palestineans" for the last few decades and East Bank Arabs who have called themselves "Jordanians" for the past few decades. Same language, dialect, culture, diet, religion, etc. Same FAMILIES! There are VASTLY greater differences between Americans from NY, New England, Midwest, Texas, California in all of these and yet THEY are all called AMERICANS. But when it comes to making claims on Jewish-held land, all of a sudden, each side of the Arab family believes they are a separate "nationality" and want their own seat at the UN. If Arabs have family problems, they should settle them within the family. Leave the rest of us out of this. 2-100) Many other reasons, but you aren't listening anyways…
Ta'ayush has no interest in peace or in Jewish human rights. They have a one-track mind – Palestine and Jihad Forever!
Shingo the Moron doesn't deserve a reply. Never contributes to discussion here, anyways. 1) Arabs have been attacking, stealing from and murdering Jewish farmers since…. well since forever. Long before any "occupation", long before the State of Israel. It's an Arab cultural thing; you wouldn't understand. 2) Arabs are usually the perpetrators of such agricultural and forest vandalism. That Arabs may sometimes be the victims is certainly news. Why don't you hear when Arabs commit such crimes? Perhaps you should read something other than MondoLies….
Zionazi eitan drone, benshlomo
No. They are squatters.
A case of small tit for giant tat.
That's what happens when you ascend to Heaven, er, I mean Israel.
The USA is not an ethnocentric state. We actually have a Constitution and it's enforced. Why don't you spell out some of those "VASTLY greater differences between Americans"?
Zionazi
You have a one-track mind – Israel Uber Alles!
You never contribute to discussion here. Jews have been killing and dispossessing Palestinian Arabs since 1882. It's a Zionist cultural thing; you understand it very well and approve.
AIPAC is an entity funded by a fifth column in the USA; it sends US tax dollars to Israel via the USA's whore Congress and Israel in turn sends the US tax dollars back to the USA to replenish AIPAC's minion NGOs in the USA. That's a Zionist recycling joint venture designed to drain the USA to insure Israel Uber Alles; the negative impact on Gentile Americans and, indeed, the Gentile World is merely collateral damage.
Israel kills on averga about 10 children for every Jewish child killed.
And you seem to exist as a zionazi.
1) Palestinians have been called Palestininas since at least 1920. Poor Jakes doesn't realise that NY, New England, Midwest, Texas, California all share the same border. Jake doesn't read much you see. 2) Jake can't think of any, but is trying to pretend he can.
Israel and genocide forver right Eitan?
And that includes the UN resolutions for Partition, and for recognizing Israel. Hence Israel is no more a valid regime than Charlie Manson's family declaration of existence at Spahn Ranch.
Jake says I don't deserv e areply, which is his way of saying he doesn't have one. Hey Jake, you said a week ago that you were ignoring me. That plan didn't work out so well did it? 1) No arabs have no have been attacking, stealing from and murdering Jewish otherwise, they would have more land than they have. Before the state of Israel, Jew sand Arabs got along fine, but I'm sure you do understand about land theft. It's how Israel was born. 2) It's Israle that routinely bulldozed or sets fires to farms, when they've not builsing 10 m concrete walls between Palestinian farmers and their crops. That Arabs may usually be the victims is probably news to you, seein gas you don't read. The reason we don't hear when Arabs commit such crimes is because they dodn't. Perhaps you should start reading period. Perhaps start with children's books to get your confidence up.
"There is no such law and don't bother with UN resolutions they are not binding on international law. " Tell that to Iraq. You are desperately ignorant.
He's a self confessed Jewish extremist, what do you expect? The irony of him calling other people anti-Semites and terrorist. I've got a feeling this guy's a settler
Thank you for clarifying, once and for all, that the General Assembly resolution that "partitioned" Palestine was worthless.
So to simplify, Jews rule america and their tenticles reach around the world to trick Gentiles. Nice
Any reference to Jews as Nazis shows the inability to have a rational argument.
Israel doesn't need UN mandate to exist. We existed long before Islam and we will exist long after
Agreed. We should have all of Palestine Mandate
In fact Jews are the rightful owners of the Land and the Arabs are squatting.
Here we see a few mosaic elements put together. 1) Zionazi: Jews as Nazis, irrational argument meant as a "low blow" towards Jews and scathing reminder of the horrors of the holocaust even when the argument at hand has nothing to do with it. Entices us to feel "guilty for being victims" 2)Eitan drone: Jews as animals, Monkeys, Sewage or "bots" "drones" anything "less than human" deligitimazation as a first step…
You may, provided that you safeguard "the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion. " I.e., you can have all of Mandatory Palestine, so long as you give all Arabs living there the vote. In other words, you're endorsing a one-state solution. Who would have said you and I would agree on this?
Ah, you gave yourself the internet pen name. The Eitan is in fact a a specific Israeli military drone, a mindless machine of destruction programmed by the Israeli Military machine.
Right. And Joshua did not invade the land of another people and massacre them.
If the actual shoe fits, wear it. I invite all readers of this blog to investigate and come to their own conclusions.
If the shoe fits, wear it–the only reason there's no gas chambers for Palestinians that we know of is that Israel is dependent on US tax dollars, so PR is needed; in comparison, Nazi Germany built itself up by its own bootstraps–it prospered even without any world mark recognition via barter. If Israel had to depend on barter it would sink into the Dead Sea tomorrow.
Especially the UN resolutions that recognized Israel, and prior thereto, the Partition.
Like vampires.
right, the whole world in fact; because Jewry is the master race–what was Hitler thinking?
Why does this forum allow poster names like the one above?
Another Anti-semetic posting, this time Jews are vampires. Reported
Eitan is my name. Eitan is the third most popular boys name in the United States and a biblical figure as well.
And some of that Nazi Germany barter in the 1930's was with the Jewish Agency in Palestine, via the Haavara Agreement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
Why does this forum allow poster names like the one above?
ShingoLiar stil doesn't understand the difference between kill and murder.
You still don't appreciate what murdering a child is. You are in no position to moralize to anyone.
I did. You didn't read. Differences between Americans in "dialect, culture, diet, religion," as well as history and geography. And Americans STILL consider themselves to be one nation. With the imaginary "Palestineans" the very same families live in the Jordanian-Occupied East Bank of Palestine but the West Bankers think that THEY in the WB are a separate nation. Oh, Yasser Arafat himself saw Jordan as Palestine. This is why he started his first Intifada to liberate Jordan from Occupation. Lookup Black September of 1970.
ShingoLiar thinks that California shares a border with… New York. Somebody, please help the poor ShingoFool.
Jan, Your statements on murder are not supported by hard evidence. You are propagandizing. Not helpful. Good bye.
Joe, babbling again?
You fail to differentiate between murder and killing. Typical. You will never understand the Middle East – and you don't want any one else to understand. MondoFool.
Joe, you have no evidence for such slander. THat is why it is properly called slander. That is also why you are properly called a bigot.
ShingoLiar, it is not me who is ignoring you. It is everyone else. WHen you are shown, again and again and again, to be a lying idiot – and by so many other posters – YOU lose credibility. Perhaps a ShingoLiar won't understand something like that. Too complicated for Shingoites. 1) Arabs have been murdering Jews in the Middle East since long, long before 1948. But that is history, another topic you don't have a good grasp of… and are apparently incapable of mastering. 2) All lies. Never a reference for any of your lies (except for a few which you actually made up yourself!) Typical Shingo. This is why you are ShingoLiar.
Murder is killing by intention. Every Palestinian child is killed because an Israeli inteneded to kill him. That's murder.
Jake doesn't understand that interstate borders are meaningless. The only border of any consequence is the US border.
1) Some Arabs may have murdered some Jews and some Jews may have murdered some Arabs in teh ME before 1948, but by an large, Arabs and Jews got along fine until the Azkenazim began arriving. 2) It is a proven fact that Israel routinely bulldozes and sets fire to farms, as well as homes. IDF soliders have testified about the fact that Palestinias property is routinely destroyed without rhyme or reason. It is all part of the ongoing and systemaic enthnic clesing that is Israeli policy. Jake hates fatcs.
in today’s Sydney Morning Herald,article about West Bank Israelis uprooting olive trees in reaction to a caravan on a hilltop being removed by I.D.F. Is this Intifada III – only by the other side this time?
Below it,a smaller article on how Hamas is turning to more artistic methods instead of rockets.This was encouraging because ‘doing their own thing’,showing their positive talents expressed through plays drama;is an important departure from the usual of airing grievances,however true,about the other side.
Once the move is made a little bit away from constant dwelling on a victim mentality
will speed their emancipation.
The ‘Jarrah development in E. Jerusalem a former Moscowitz property,is where the line-in-the-sand is being drawn.
Moscowitz also is in the tunneling under Al-Aqsa. These tunnels are the beginning of
(Netanyahu’s) Third Jerusalem Temple construction plan.All part of the New World Religion.Linking up with Rome.
Did some of those u/ground passageways exist in the 1200’s when The Knight’s Templars were there for the Crusades.
In 2005,when it was said that Sharon was giving up Gaza and shifting attention to West Bank and giving evicted from Gaza homes in west Bank;so that he could destroy Gaza with no Jews there anymore if he felt it was needed- I could not believe.
Three years since,esp. Gaza ‘08/’09 have proved the prediction.About Ariel’s motive and tactics/strategy & real commitment or otherwise re. ‘peace’ with The P.Auth.
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