Rob Browne responds to a post I did the other day about Trader Joe's stocking Israel goods to counter the boycott movement:
I just read an article from the North Jersey Jewish Standard about local NJ Jewish motorcycle clubs trying to stand up in support of Trader Joe's. I found it both sad and amusing. Well intentioned people, who appear to refuse to deal with the complexities of the conflict, offering simplistic knee jerk support of Israel. If this is how status-quo people are going to defend Israel, then progressive citizens and politicans have a great chance at chaning the dynamic for a just resolution to the conflict.
-Bob Nesoff, president of the New Milford Jewish Center and a member of Jewish motorcycle clubs Hillel’s Angels and Chai Riders, began coordinating the counter-protest last week. He has arranged paths along routes 4 and 17 with local police departments. And while the Trader Joe’s in Paramus carries only a small number of Israeli products, he said, he has been told that the store will stock up on those ahead of the ride. (The Jewish Standard was not able to confirm this.)
-“Our message is simply, ‘If you are going to try to harm Israel, we are going to do our best to help Israel,’” Nesoff said. “They’ve got to know that Jews and friends of Jews in Israel are not going to sit back and take it on the chin.”
-Participants in the ride will not speak about the state of negotiations or the two-state solution, Nesoff said. They will be there only to show support of the Jewish state.
My favorite part of the article:
-Despite the apparent inability of the (Don't But Into Apartheid) group to mobilize the boycott locally, Nesoff remained firm on the need to show support. “If [the boycotters] get away with this now, they’re going to go from Trader Joe’s to Target to Kohl’s to whomever else,” Nesoff said. “We feel it’s got to be stopped in its tracks.”
It made me think of the poem by Pastor Martin Niemoller:
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Related posts:
- I have a good short conversation about the situation with my mom
- ‘Anna in the Middle East’ Is Latest Target in Generational War Over Zionism
- OK, let’s admit South Africa and Israel are equivalent moral cases, says Stanley Fish
- Israel stops US basketball players from coming to Palestine
- We make The New Republic again
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The one and only comprehensive scholarly history of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories is a book called "Lords of the Land", by Idith Zertal and Akiva Eldar , which has just been translated into English. This quote explodes the myth that Israel GAVE away the Gaza Strip. "After Israel withdrew it's forces from Gaza, in August 2005, the ruined territory was not released for even a single day from Israel's military grip, or from the price of the occupation that the inhabitants pay every day. Israel left behind scotched earth, devastated services, and people with nearly a present or a future. The Jewish settlements were destroyed in an ungenerous move by an unenlightened occupier, which in fact continues to control the territory and kill and harass it's inhabitants, by means of it's formidable military might." Israel have had Gaza under siege since the day it pulled out and have never let go on the air, land and sea access to Gaza. Over the 12 alone months that followed, Israel fired 7,700 shells int Gaza. As for Hamas: 1. They, unlike Israel, have said they support a 2 state solution. 2. They, unlike Israel, have said they support the Arab peace initiative, signed by 22 Arabs states, which offers to recognize Israel as per the 1967 borders and even normalize relations with Israel. 3. The Hamas leader has said the 23 year old Hams Charter is no longer relevant. Gazan's have not declared war on Israel. They have asked for the blockade to be lifted, Israel agrees that it woudl do so as part of the 2008 ceasefire, and then reneged on that agreement from day 1. Hamas still stuck to the ceasefire, even though Israel weer violating it, until Israel broke the ceasefire on November 4th. That should put and end to the lies of Jake in Jerusalem.
Yeah, a touch of Israel's own medicine,
There is no such thing as a boycott "boycott" that is open ended as long as Israel exists". The only boycott is the one demanding that Israel lift it's illegal and inhumane blockade of Gaza. After all, according to Israel, a blockade is an act of war.
They have been doing that for centuries carnas. Hitler, Stalin, Israel…
"It is an unfortunate truth. Christians have proven it many times over the last several centuries." If ti were a truth, the majority of Jews woudl be in Israel, not enjoying a much higher standard of living is countries that are predominantly Christian.
More than a decade or two has passed since WWII and there is no evidence of Jews being persecuted in friendly nations.
Strahl's just pissed because he has no power. A WASP with no sting
What is wrong with collective punishment for israelis—a group of slime-balls who are clearly collectively guilty? Did Netanyahu materialize out of thin air? He exists as an expression of the Nazi israeli mindset, just as menachem begin and all the OTHER israeli leaders since 1948 exist as an expression of the Nazi israeli mindset. Are you unsure about what the Nazi mindset IS? We are honored to have several representatives of the israeli Nazi mindset right here on this forum. They are quite clear: people carrying toys for traumatized Arab children should be attacked. That is the israeli point of view. It's totally consistent and there are no dissenters to speak of. So it is NOT wrong to collectively punish the israelis. It's not wrong to wipe the israelis off the face of the earth. That would be a service to humanity and above all, a service to Jews who have been hideously disgraced by these monsters from hell. That's why decent Jews hate the Israelis even more than Arabs hate the israelis.
an israeli tank shell killed a palestinian girl today.Sorry ,i meant a terrorist girl.
Go read their web page: http://www.bdsmovement.net/?q=node/52 "Right of return" aka Israel for the Palestinians and the gas chambers for the Jews.
If you had made the statement that it would be hard for Bush/Cheney to attack Iraq if the israel lobby were steadfastly against it, perhaps I'd agree. To say the assault on Iraq was impossible without support of the israel lobby is nonsense. Where is the evidence? …and one more thing. Calling a far-right career psychotic like Podhoretz a "lefty" is really quite ludicrous. Why not label Gilles de Rais a "lefty" ? It makes about as much sense.
In our church records in nazareth my family history goes at least 250 years back.And i beleive we always spoke arabic.And as far as i know we've always been there.But the natives must be the polish,russian,romanian,american,german,and other emmigrant scumbags.I mean here is a thug like leiberman,can come to my land from moldovan shit hole,and tell me I have no rigth to my land.Got a nuke?
Dunno, I let my friends make up their own minds. Though I have been in a Trader Joe's recently. They didn't seem to be hurting for business. BTW, asking whether a product is made in Israel is only a protest if it makes you less likely to buy it. As for which of us is more persuasive in writing, it depends on the audience. For an audience of mostly Aryan brothers like you find on this web site, probably you. For an audience that has all its marbles and isn't anti-Semitic, probably me. In person, most likely whichever one of us is more attractive. Cynical, moi?
Actually, Israeli science is a catastrophe. Smart Jews of the diaspora want nothing to do with that shithole and routinely decline invitations to participate in Israel's "intellectual life." Jews of the diaspora CRUSH all the shitty literature, all the shitty non-art and all the half-assed science of Israel. The state of israel has always had an inferiority complex, because their contribution to Jewish culture has been ZERO. All they can do is act like Nazi assholes and flex their muscles. Jews of Europe and America laugh in their Nazi faces.
I believe I mentioned that you are an individual, not a government at war. I don't remember the source but "if people acted like governments, you'd call the cops". It is easier to destroy than to create. That is why a civilization needs rules about what is and is not acceptable behavior. That is why we have courts and laws. If you are pissed off at someone you could easily burn down their house. Of course, they could burn yours down in revenge and then you are both far worse off than if you hadn't started it. There is a fine line between civil disobedience and promoting anarchy. What you are proposing is anarchy. Suppose anti-Muslim forces started blocking shipments of goods from Muslim countries? Or any other idiot with a gripe could do it? Then nobody gets what they want. Within a governmental system, the law rules and can arbitrate who gets what and who can do what. The law isn't magic, it exists only as a consequence of the power of the government to enforce it and the willingness of the population to obey it. That is why all these people talking about "illegal" settlements are so funny. They live in systems with more or less fair laws and so they think that anything they think is bad is "illegal". Illegal just means whatever the controlling government wants to make against the law. In the West Bank at the moment, the controlling government is the Israelis. If Israel says the settlements are legal, they are legal. Which is not to say they are a good idea. The American Revolution was illegal as are all Revolutions. The problem is that when two groups disagree on which system should govern, the laws of the two systems can't tell you which system should govern. Each points in a different direction. At that point diplomacy and war make the determination.
Oh, and (as I have said to other anti-Semites here). Thanks for outing yourself. Jews don't drink blood, tommy. That is just a lie spread by Jew haters like yourself. Blood isn't kosher. Human tissue of any kind isn't Kosher either (I wonder if biting my nails counts). Can't concoct Kosher cannibal cookouts.
Supporting Arab charities is only illegal if those charities in turn support terrorist organizations. Buying bread for Hamas frees up funds so they can buy more missiles.
There is no law governing what the Palestinians have to wear (no Israeli law anyway, Palestinian laws I'm not so sure). No Israeli law against Palestinians owning businesses, teaching, owning property or marrying anyone who agrees to marry them. There are many mixed marriages in Israel between Israeli-Arabs and Jews. Even a few between Palestinians and Jews, though the immigration is a bit tricky. Do you believe what you are saying? If so, where are you getting this nonsense from?
No one said mass killings in pursuit of Communism was justified. I said the pursuit of anti-Communism was rightful. After all, it murdered tens of millions before America even took an anti-Communist stance. Its death toll thus far is probably around 100 million, at least. Far worse than "hillbillies and gangsters." What is your opinion of Communism?
The founding Nazi Ben Gurion was quite clear on this point when he said he'd rather save only half the jewish children from the holocaust by sending them to Israel than save ALL the Jewish children by sending them to England. The israelis care nothing for the jews. The Israelis are walking puke. They are the ENEMIES of the jews. We need to wipe them out completely.
Walt and Mearsheimer called the role of the Israel lobby in instigating the Iraq war “decisive.” Jewish Zionists Feith and Wolfowitz used the Office of Special plans to “stovepipe” false evidence used to frame Iraq to top levels. http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/Cd... Many believe that false evidence originated in Israel. Israeli Jewish Zionist Meyriv Wurrmser, wife of Cheney aid David Wurmser, declared that “the objective was to change the face of the Middle East.” http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/ArticleLayout/Cd... Much of the intellectual architecture for a US removal of Saddam originated from Jewish Zionist Israelis and Jewish Zionist Americans, including A Clean Break, co-written by the Wurmsers, Feith and Richard Perle. Bush and Cheney were greedy, stupid, and grandiose go-along-with-a-wink useful idiots for the Zionists, who were the primary instigators, IMO.
LOL. Israel has mad science skillz. And skills in mad science MWAHAHAHA. Physics, medicine, agriculture, electronics, etc. Imagine how much further they could have gotten if they didn't have to spend so much time effort keeping the Palestinians from trying to kill them. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technolo...
Tell it to the Vietnamese, Cambodians and Laotians, massacred with napalm and high explosive in an American anti-communist rampage that makes the holocaust look like a weekend in the Hamptons. That's not hyperbole, that's a fact. I think it's possible to be a devoted communist and a decent human being. There are so many inspiring examples. I am NOT convinced it is possible to be a devoted capitalist and a decent human being. You want to highlight crimes under particular manifestations of communism (NOT communism, per se) while ignoring the monstrous, blood-soaked crimes of capitalist garbage dumps like the united states. It's absurd. i point out again that Iran's democratic, SECULAR leader was destroyed in anti-Communist zeal. The record is quite clear on that. Anti-communism, like Zionism, is a disease.
I think American involvement in Vietnam was atrocious, but I don't know what capitalism or communism have to do with anything. Russia gave up real communism before the revolution was even over, and the U.S. has been heavily managed economically and socially since before WWII.
Hyperbolize much? Palestine was one of the /safe/ places for Jews in the world during WW2. You guys get all wigged out when Israel is compared with Nazi Germany (and you know what? Gaza /has/ become the new Warsaw Ghetto) but you guys are willing to equate everyone and their grandmothers with Nazis. Hypocrites.
Are you kidding? Teva., Israel's largest drug maker is 90% genetic drugs…lifted I might add from other companies patents. Israel's Teva has been sued by every major drug maker in the world for "copying" their drugs. Israel doesn't have much of a drug research record….if they fell off the face of the earth tomorrow no one in the health and medical field would miss them.,,and it would save the "real" drug companies from having to sue them every month for stealing their work. You should read the business papers instead of whatever Israeli propaganda you are reading.
Yeah, as if you weren't already.
This. Isn't helping.
I didn't know that Tree, that Israel actually delayed processing visas. The most detailed thing I read about Israeli/Junta relationship was this obviously apologetic dirge that makes little reference to names of people actually saved other than Jacobo Timmerman. One part says Begin was for rescuing even anti-Israel Jews and another part says all living persons the Jewish Agency sought to release actually was. There's also some outrightly sinister moments, when it doesn't question Videla's assertion that Israel was privileged in access to detainees as opposed to other nations. It has some very mealy mouthed descriptions of junta anti-semitism, basically saying Jews were a higher ratio of detainees but they were arrested for being leftist, not Jewish. Basically what's clear even from that vague litany of excuses is that Israel sold weapons to a regime persecuting Jews. That kind of defeats the purpose of Zionism. http://www.jcpa.org/jpsr/jpsr-mualem-s04.htm
Obviously, there's no chance Israel could've saved Jews from the Holocaust in 1939 and there's no way it will now. Anything powerful enough to enact another one is probably powerful enough to destroy Israel and it's probably the USA. I'm convinced people who look at Jewish history as an upward curve of persecution, culminating in the shoah, aren't really interested in history or any analysis of Euro-Imperialism. There couldn't have been a Hitler without Europe's grand tradition of conquest and economically-minded enslaving of the natives. And the industrial revolution, so important to today's standard of living, wasn't very respectful of human life in general. Hitler is a scapegoat for the callousness and greed of imperialism (as Ward Churchill put it, what was done in the Americas, Africa, India Hitler did to whites) and the isolation of Jewish persecution not only exonerates European powers for their own genocides, it also absolves the Nazi regime of genocide against Gypsies, Polish, Russians…
It actually is: lovelyisraelis is the perfect exemplar of the mindless freaks on this blog.
"More than a decade or two has passed since WWII" – It's been 60 years, moron. And there is plenty of evidence that Jews continued to be targeted even after the holocaust. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-war_pogroms_in_...
Todd I can definitely agree with your point. To a point. But I also think people like chomsky have shown persuasively that where a real model of healthy, functioning communism attempts to emerge, it is swiftly targeted by the United States for destruction. The threat of the good example has always been intolerable to our hegemonic mindset.
As Yeshayahu Leibowitz, one of the VERY FEW brilliant Jews Israel has ever produced insists, the israelis are "Judeo-Nazis" (his term). Philip Roth quite agrees: "Who are these provincial NOBODIES? Jailers! To turn Jewish kids into jailers and jet bomber pilots. THAT is their great Jewish achievement. I spit on them! I spit on them!"
hi ed…good, reasonable points. I certainly would never deny that the zionists in the US and Israel were licking their chops to destroy Iraq. I don't deny that they happily contributed whatever propaganda expertise they thought would further their cause. i don't deny that feith, wurmser, abrahms , pearle et al had zionist motivations which made them particularly rabid on the topic. Clearly, they helped facilitate this abomination but i don't agree that bush/cheney–who had ALSO harbored longstanding ambitions to attack iraq REQUIRED zionist assistance. Do you believe that was also the case with Desert Storm? If not, why not? ..and what of the fact that the zionists have been far MORE rabidly behind a military strike on iran and have gone totally overboard to gin up phony intel and yet, the US has basically told them to fuck off?
as u know…Walt and Mearsheimerr are not without their critics (no, I'm not talking about imbeciles like dershowitz). many find the "we did it for israel" thesis unpersuasive…chomsky/finkelstein among others. We wanted to smash any potential opposition to US dominance in the region. That too, is longstanding US policy. We certainly had our eye on the largest untapped source of oil. Even Bush Jrs personal obsession with revenge against Saddam for a supposed attempt on Bish Srs life (how awesome it would have been if THAT had succeeded!!) was probably greater motivation for the war than pleasing Israel and the stateside zionist cabal.
You forgot to quote Noam Chomsky. How about Osama bin Laden? When it comes to lies, Hamas rules. Of course, trust Eldar to print it. And you fall for it? Would YOU believe a Jihadi terrorist organization with your life???? Is their kidnapping and hiding of Gilad Shalit in violation of Geneva Conventions consistent with your "peaceful" description? Bring some real sources next time. Or go home to mommy. I present facts – and it bugs you no end. Tough.
Hamas shell. Read up.
1) Christians live in Israel in significant numbers. 2) Christians in Israel are diminishing in numbers. 3) Christians in Israel are being pushed out by their Muslim neighbors, not their Jewish neighbors. Nazareth and Bethlehem are excellent cases in point. 4) That Muslims hate Christians is not the fault of the Jews.
IMO, most of what you say is true, except this: “i don't agree that bush/cheney–who had ALSO harbored longstanding ambitions to attack iraq REQUIRED zionist assistance." Who facilitated the Iraq war in the Democratic party? Who facilitated it in the mass media? It was primarily the Jewish Zionists, and hence couldn't have been pulled off without them. Read this from Wikipedia: “Prior to the 2003 invasion of Iraq [gentile Democrat Moran] told an antiwar audience in Reston, Virginia on March 3, 2003, that "If it were not for the strong support of the Jewish community for this war with Iraq, we would not be doing this. The leaders of the Jewish community are influential enough that they could change the direction of where this is going, and I think they should." http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/5925.ht... Moran was quickly rebuked by the Democrat establishment. Many Zionist Democrats have continued to rebuke him for pointing up AIPAC power since. http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0907/5925.ht...
Philip, how about investigating the charges that have been bandied about online that Trader Joe's German owner* Theo Albrecht was in his youth a member of Hitler Youth and later a German soldier during WWII? If it's true, I would want it publicized. It would throw Zionists in a tizzy. But of course I wouldn't want to defame Mr. Albrecht if it was false. *Apparently he's not exactly the owner, but the grantor of the trust that owns it. Any which way, he benefits from its sales.
"Jewish motorcycle clubs Hillel’s Angels and Chai Riders" Ugh. This kind of schlock makes me ill. Shows a serious lack of self-respect, in my opinion.
The ones who replace factual analysis with emotives? Yeah, between him, Jake, Katie, you, they're crawling all over here.
The settlements are illegal under art. 49 of the 4th Geneva Convention : The occupying power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian occupation into the territory it occupies. Israel is a signatory and in the 70's made a pretense of obeying the Geneva Convetion. And the UN considers these territories occupied. Even if I took it on good faith that Israeli law only matters, it was never extended into the West Bank. Israel does not even pretend to follow its own civil law in that territory. You said it yourself: "when two groups disagree on which system should govern, the laws of the two systems can't tell you which system should govern. Each points in a different direction. At that point diplomacy and war make the determination." Boycotts are necessary to make Israel obey int'l law. And everything in Israel is built on Palestinian blood. A bit too poetic for a serious analysis but not inaccurate.
No it was an Israeli shell. Hamas shells don't hit their targets.
"When it comes to lies, Hamas rules." Hamas weren't the ones banning froeing journalists from entering Gaza to report the facts. "Would YOU believe a Jihadi terrorist organization with your life????" No more than I would trust an Israeli terrorist organization. "Is their kidnapping and hiding of Gilad Shalit in violation of Geneva Conventions consistent with your "peaceful" description? " Capturing a soldier is much less a crime that capturing a civilian, and Irael has done that thousands of times, including the 2 civlians Israle kidnapped from Gaza the day before Shalit was catpured. "I present facts" You never have and never will. Stop sucking your thumb and remember to stop soiling yourself in public. It's embarrasing.
1) Correction: Used to live in signifant numbers 2) Correct 3) It's the Jews that are abusing them, not th Muslisms. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?it... 4) Wrong
There is no specific law against bringing anything into Gaza. The blockade is illegal.
Hamas make most of their own missiles and liek Israel, they probably don't pay for their wepons.
I don't see it, ed. Naturally, you can point to various influential Jews who had a hand in this, but your thesis obliges you to totally ignore the very powerful non-Jewish actors…like our Sec of State who knowingly laid out the phony "evidence" before the UN security council. That was a giant step in the direction of war—probably the biggest. How about all the phony crap coming out of Downing Street…the dodgy dossier, etc? Was that the work of the Jewish lobby? How about the efforts to destroy those with conflicting data? The yellowcake affair? That was out of Cheney's office. And even the Jews who were involved…I mean, is Judy Miller really a part of this jewish AIPAC conspiracy, or is she just a shitty journalist and pathological liar who HAPPENS to be Jewish?
1) Journalists are IN Gaza at this moment, and also enter and leave. I KNOW some of them. It was, ummm, Hamas that KIDNAPPED a British journalist not long ago. Forgot? 2) Israeli "terrorist"organizations are outlawed. "Palestinean" terrorist groups are the govt! 3) there is a difference between kidnap by terrorists and arrest by police. IF you can't tell the difference between raping and being raped (as befits an Islamist-apologist like you) then this is not surprising. 4) I ONLY post facts. This bugs the heck out of you. I'm not surprised. MondoBigot.
YOu are correct. This HAMAS shell landed on a PALESTINEAN home. It did NOT hit it's intended target. Palestineans kill Palestineans and YOU blame Israel. Typical.
Ha! TWO reports of SPITTING in TWO YEARS. Compared to the INTIMADATION, SHOOTINGS and MURDERS of Christians by Muslims, this is nothing! Ask yourself: would a Christian want to live in a Jewish-run society or in a Muslim-run society? The THOUSANDS of LEBANESE CHRISTIANS who sought refuge in ISRAEL tells you the answer… Shingo's MondoBigotry knows no boungs… and no facts, either.
Andrew, there was a book written in Israel two decades ago by a correspondent from Yediot Ahronoth in Argentina, which detailed this. His name was Marcel Zohar. Tony Greenstein quotes from a Hadashot article of 1990 about this: "The Israeli government could have saved hundreds of Argentine Jews, who were murdered or kidnapped during the rule of the generals between 1976 and 1983, claims Marcel Zohar in his book Let My People Go to Hell, soon to be published by Zitrin. Zohar, who was Yedi'ot Aharonot [an Israeli evening newspaper] correspondent in Argentina between 1978 and 1982, describes how the Israeli government, the Jewish Agency and other official bodies refrained from processing immigration applications from Jews with left-wing background, in order to preserve Israel's good business and political links with the ruling junta. In the same period, arms sales worth about one billion dollars were concluded between Israel and Argentina. According to Zohar, both Likud and Labour leaders shared in the conspiracy of silence. His book recounts the struggle which took place between Danny Rekanati, the immigration official based in Argentina, and the Israeli ambassador, Ron Nergad. Rekanati tried to help persecuted Jews escape from the country, while Nergad, according to the book, complained about his activities. The unwritten instruction was to refuse any help to Jews defined as 'too left-wing'. The late Menahem Savidor, who was Knesset chairman at the time, admitted to Zohar that he had prevented a public Knesset debate on the situation of Argentina's Jews at the government's request in order not to harm Israel's crucial links with Argentina." (From Greenstein's blog: http://azvsas.blogspot.com/2009/02/arson-at-venez... I believe the original Hadashot article used to be posted somewhere on the internet, but I can no longer find it." ) I find it quite illuminating that the article you linked to mentioned Zohar as a critic but chose not to mention any of the specifics of his charges in its apologia.
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