Okay, so it's not the best reporting. It gets a number of crucial facts wrong, and everyone seems much more concerned about how the reporter smells than anything else, but isn't it still a sign of progress? Bil'in is becoming such a well known story even Fox News is there. And factual mistakes aside – doesn't the real story still come through?
(h/t to Matt Duss for the video)
I am against the fence. It serves to wall in Jews and impose de-facto borders limited Jewish rights to towns and areas beyond the barrier. However I do think "activist" is a better term than "peace" activists for the people protesting.
The Israel Project's 2009 Global Language Dictionary recommends these arguments to discuss the wall: Chapter 11 Pages 69-74. http://www.philipweiss.org/mondoweiss/2009/07/no-...
Interesting how the Israelis want everyone to be educated while the Arabs just want to spread propaganda and hate.
This is pure poetry: "However I do think "activist" is a better term than "peace" activists for the people protesting. " I think you would really prefer the words: helot, slave, serf.
Absolutely. And the Zionists believe in peace. It's amazing how many children the people who believe in peace actually kill.
In fact I'm not sure what a helot is and I'll have to look that up. I do think "activist" is a more neutral term and should be used in this case.
Here a link to help you out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helots
P.S. Don't you think we should refer to the Israeli Defense Forces by another, more neutral term? For some of us, the IDF doesn't defend anything. But they are attacking lots of people.
Mythbuster, I already looked it up a while back though from the article the status of the helot people seems to be under question, that being said these ancient people don't have much to do with the conversation. Concerning the IDF, that is the name of the official army of the State of Israel. I think many countries now use Defense, instead of War because it simply sounds better. Like the US changed the War Department to Department of Defense.
So if the peace activists register themselves as peace activists that would be kosher with you?
And you said: "these ancient people don't have much to do with the conversation." I agree. No ancient people have anything to do with the question, including all those Ancient Israelites who claim an Iron-Age God gave them the Promised Land. They are irrelevant.
Mythbuster, I don't agree with your last statement and I'd like to clarify. There are no more spartans or Helos. There are however Jews and we have returned to our native homeland. I know that is hard to swallow. It's hard to believe. It's hard to accept. But we are back and we will cling to our land.
No that would not be kosher with me. I think that the media should report the activists at simply that and that should be reflected in the official journalistic style guides. The Guides already have acceptable terminology related to naming conventions of armed forces which by the way could also use some changes.
To answer Phil's ending question: Yes, the story does come through–certainly it's a plus that Fox News finally came through with even this much on cable news. Now where's the PEP MSNBC rival on this issue? As a small gift, I give you a look at an Israeli drunk cousin of those drunk American Jewish kids Jerusalem in the video clip that was taken off the internet, just to show you that the American tax dollar does some unifying good in both lands–you know we share the same values, etc: http://www.evtv1.com/player.aspx?itemnum=6595
RE: "…but isn't it still a sign of progress?" MY COMMENT: We're talking about the Murdoch/Ailes Fox News. I smell a rat (or two)!
RE: "There are however Jews and we have returned to our native homeland." SEE: "Ancient Israeli Myths Deter Peace", By Robert Parry, 07/09/09 (EXCERPT) The rationale for formally designating Israel a Jewish state – as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu now demands – rests on three religious-political pillars: God’s purported covenant with Moses instructing the ancient Israelites to conquer the land, the injustice of the Roman-era Diaspora that supposedly removed them centuries later, and the brutal persecution of European Jews in the Holocaust. Yet, two of these pillars – Moses conveying God’s covenant to the Israelites and the Roman Diaspora – appear based on almost no historical reality, the stuff of legend and possibly even lies that crumble under any serious scrutiny. Normally, such ancient stories might be regarded as harmless tales that some people treasure as part of their Judeo-Christian faiths, except that Netanyahu’s new demand means that these myths now threaten peace in the Middle East and conceivably could push the modern world into more bloody warfare. Therefore, they must be given fresh examination…. ENTIRE ARTICLE – http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/070809.html
Hahahaha… How pathetic. I confess I was laughing for most of that video, despite the inherent realities of what that settler probably does on a daily basis, the terror he undoubtedly inflicts on his Palestinian neighbors, the subsidies the Israeli government gives him to live illegally in Palestinian land, et cetera. He seemed so insecure of himself and his place in the world, to have to constantly shout about his "God-given" rights and make hollow threats towards the filmmakers and the absent millions of Palestinians. "We killed Jesus, and we're proud of it!"
I suppose it would be too much to expect FOX, or any other MSM network in this country for that matter, to even make short mention of Bassem Ibrahim Abu Rahma? Maybe they could've played up the reporter's heroism even more so by mentioning Bassem, as they talked about the IDF's "non-lethal" weapons; for example: "Although these are 'non-lethal' weapons, in April, a Palestinian protester was killed at this very site when he was hit in the chest with a tear gas canister" "Wow, Reena, you mean you could be hit with a tear gas canister and die!? You're really brave to be there!" At least Bil'in is getting some coverage here…
The West Bank Palestinians created the West Bank barrier. They were offered a state of their own, they responded with the second Intifada. Israel created the wall as a reactionary effort to protect their citizens from random, indiscriminate violence and dismemberment – after all attempts at diplomacy and negotiation were refused. The number of terrorist attacks on civilian has since declined. The whole issue isn't black or white- but I see the dysfunctional, toxic Palestinian leadership and culture as has having created an enormous amount of suffering for themselves. If they ever wanted real peace and a dignified life of their own they could have it iummeadately – but the unstated cause of the Palestianian agenda is to destroy Israel and implement a one-state (Arab) solution…. and as long as they is their real position, it's going to create a lot of mutual hardship for the entire region.
Dickerson, The Jewish people have a long historical connection with the land of Israel. I disagree with the article by Robert Parry.
The Palestinians might not have stones and whatever, but they are hateful anti-semites (and the Israelis with them are self-hating Jews, if that concerns you). And since I established this fact persuasively, you should now forget about what's in front of your eyes, remember the images of the holocaust you've seen more often than this in college, equate Israel with Jews and Judaism, think a bit, utter some neutral and meaningless answer like "both sides have a share of the responsibility" or "religion is so terrible," and then get back to paying taxes that arm and vote for the perpetuation of the situation and to ice cream.
I come from a prominent, early Zionist family and we unquestionably believe in peace. and we do not hate Arabs. We just want to live in a tiny sliver of our historic homeland, free from the violence / hatred and ethnic cleansing our Arab neighbors seem intent on hashing out on us. There are 52 Arab states taking up 642 times the land mass on Israel – but it seems the Arabs find it untenable that they can't cleanse the Jews out of one tiny last area or turn them into dhimiis. We just want to live peacefully – and are happy to have Arab "settlements" (villages) and holy sites of all religions – but the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians are defined and led by absolutist zealots who will not regonize basic historical facts (that Jews come from israel and have always lived there, and that more Jews that live in Israel are viticms of ethnic cleansing from Arab countries (800,000+) in 1948 than there were Palestinian refugees 650,000)
Wow, that response was textbook hasbara.
But we're Jews. We just want to live peacefully in a tiny tiny tiny sliver of land. Remember the Holocaust? Remember what happened? Can't the so-called Palestinians just disappear for us because of the Holocaust? Are they so selfish? I mean, they got tons of countries! And who cares what they think, remember the Holocaust? We Jews can only live peacefully in Israel, the homeland of the Jewish people. Israel is a democracy. We are a free and open society. The Palestinians only worship death and just want to destroy us. They don't want a country. They want to commit another Holocaust on us. We were just minding our business this entire time and they attacked us. Why? Because we're Jews.
Ice cream is good.
Exactly. The people we occupy should do like us and go live amongst their racial group, whom we determined to be "Arabs." In fact, this is what the whole world should do. Wait!
I love how this woman seems unable to make even the most toothless statement. She was tear-gassed to the point of not being able to breathe or see, and all her comment is that the demonstrators "felt that it was a bit of excessive use of force by the Israeli army." If she had had a leg amputated due to a tear-gas canister hitting her in the knee, she would problably say "some pro-Palestinian activists are being reported to claim that the Israeli Army might be allegedly engaging in behavior that might lead to eventually possibly costing someone a limb." She also reports that the peace activists "say they were unarmed." Did SHE see any arms? If she didn't, can't she bring herself to say as much?
Wow, that reply was textbook powerless WASP.
Did she search them for arms? That's like believing the shit Strahl spews.
It's typical of the MSM to characterize everything we and our allies do as being in quotations. So she will imply that a Palestinian child shot through the forehead by a Nazi IDF soldier, SAYS he was shot through the forehead. Notice how they send a dark skinned reporter to cover the ME. The chick is Indian lol. That's Fox News for you! I'm sure they could have gotten the token Christian Arabs or Persian Jews to pose as 'Arabs' and 'Iranians' who comprise the 'majority'. Kind of like having an Israeli Arab on TV here, telling us that most Israelis want a bi-national democratic State for all peoples.
To each and every hasbara-bot, I will post the following story from YNET that describes how Israel is hiring people to post Pro-Israel propoganda on sites like this one? Remember now, this is YNET so you can't come back with Israel-government sponsored accusations of anti-semitism: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3744516... Are you a hasbara-bot? You sure sound like it, and perhaps you should be paid for your hard work.
Are you a hasbara-bot or part of a "an “Internet warfare” squad", lol? Perhaps you should be paid for your hard-work? Read this and contact the IDF today! http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3744516...
To each and every hasbara-bot, I will post the following story from YNET that describes how Israel is hiring people to post Pro-Israel propoganda on sites like this one, Remember now, this is YNET so you can't come back with Israel-government sponsored accusations of anti-semitism: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3744516... Are you a hasbara-bot? You sure sound like it, but if you are not, perhaps you should be paid for your hard work.
Sorry, the link was not working. Here you go: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3744516...
If I want the neighbours not to come on my land I build the fence on my side not on the neighbours land. The sad thin for you Brett that in the end you must demolish that fence + settlements and put it on the 1967 borders. You say :toxic Palestinian leadership and culture as has having created an enormous amount of suffering for themselves. I would say that the toxic Israeli leadership and Zionist culture has created enormous amount of suffering for others and has even managed to make others to pay for their racist and brutal behaviour.
MONAZI! also known as Elsa shewolf of the SS!
"Interesting how the Israelis want everyone to be educated while the Arabs just want to spread propaganda and hate. " Even more interesting is that you believe that.
When I first came on this site a year ago I argued that anti semitism was not a prevelant as the zionist claimed. However now I see, not anti semitism – hatred of jews for just being news, but a real dislike and resentment of Jews on the street, caused by the actions and potty mouths of the zionist and Israel. And the little hasbara-bots add to the publics perception that jews are a problem for the world. If the zionist and the litle baby zios and Israel keep esculating their aggression and hubris insanity there won't be any discrimination laws or congresspeople that can protect them from the ire of the pubic…the jews will be right back where they started…outcast and reviled.
'52 Arab states' If I found such a painful inaccuracy in a hasbara textbook I'd burn the publishing house.
totally, he even slipped in the new 09 hasbara addition of 'ethnic cleansing'. funny that a people that has ethnically cleaned the previous inhabitants is now propagandizing the illusion they are being 'cleansed' from the neighboring territories they are trying to steal. they certainly aren't lacking in cajones. i loved the 'basic historical facts ' lingo. basic biblical 'facts' maybe..
what i find odd is the implication that this video was taken on the border to israel, it isn't. it is deeper into the west bank. this land is being appropriated totally illegally, even by israeli court standards (yes, bil'in went to israeli court and won). wiki "Bil'in (Arabic: بلعين) is a Palestinian village located in the Ramallah and al-Bireh Governorate, located 12 kilometers (7 mi) west of the city of Ramallah in the central West Bank." make no mistake, this is not about protection of israel! this is about another land grab. wake up people. more from wiki "Moreover, on September 4, 2007, the Israeli Supreme Court ordered the government to redraw the path of the wall because the current route was deemed "highly prejudicial" to the villagers of Bil'in. Chief Justice Dorit Beinish wrote in the ruling, "We were not convinced that it is necessary for security-military reasons to retain the current route that passes on Bilin’s lands.""
another thing, this is also about Israeli Supreme Court vs IDF law. the military in israel has their own rules. it isn't necessarily in conjunst w/israeli regular laws. this is all a total mind fuck.
This has far more implications than you think. Lately FOX has been showing some cracks in its usual biased reporting. Is Rupert having a vision ?
Sure, any unarmed individual stopped by the cops and harassed by them always pats down the cops for arms after making them bend over spread leg. Please, ismail, you are making us paid hasbara agents look foolish. Israel just offered lots of US tax dollars to all of us, so we could patrol the web even more. But we can't give you your share unless you upgrade your product.
True. I hope readers here don't make the mistake of thinking the Israeli Supreme Court is supreme in any sense as the US Supreme Court is. Compare the US Constitution and the immense string of cases interpreting it as the the law of the land with the fact Israel has no Constitution, but only rudimentary and inconclusive "Basic Laws." The US Military is not one of our main branches of government, while in Israel the IDF is.
Get a Christian Arab to pose as an Arab? No one is questioning why we consider you an idiot.
For a time you will cling to Palestinian land – and then you will be removed kicking and screaming as fanatics will do – and then there will be peace.
I wonder if that's what you'll be saying when Israel is shunned and broke and at the mercy of 1.5 billion Muslims. That will be most interesting…
He doesn't believe that – but he thinks if he post it that somebody else just might., And they told me that the jews were smart…
Actually I consider you an idiot 'Ismail' because you didn't get that, but heck: whatever makes you happy.
eitan, You keep repeating the same line that you disagree with oposing arguments, but have failed to provide a counter agrument, other than to say you don't agree. The fence already cuts into Paelstinian land, and from the Israeli prespective, gives access to land that does not belong to Israel.
So true Annie, These propaghandists seem to have missed the part about enthnic cleasing requiring one ethnic group removing another. In the case of dismantling the settlements, it would only take place if the Israeli government agreed and would thus be conducted by Israel, not the Palestinians. Jews forcing Jews to leave by definition is not enthnic cleasing. We keep being reminded that Isrle unilaterally widrew from Gaza, so this would be another unilteral withdrawl.
You're right. We're not "peace activists", we're "freedom fighters". "peace" would imply that there are two equal forces here. We were unarmed, we opened a gate, two of my friends arrested and after I was skunk juiced, they fired over 80 gas grenades into a panicked and dense crowd. Is that's the best commentary you can dish out on the most biassed network on satellite?
Yes, I'm very worried about this as well. The protests don't get mentioned at all in israeli media unless someone dies. To see it on FOX of all networks… it's a head trip. It's strange they were on the Palestinian side, to begin with. and even stranger that the army didn't know (when they bring the media, they tone it down tremendously- that's how we know)
If she was being honest maybe she'd tell you how violated she felt by this "excessive" violence. Maybe she'd tell you, that even though she's well trained and have inhaled gas before, on a weekly basis, this time she couldn't shake the thought that she was dying as she ran to find a place that had fresh air.
And add to that, that the Basic Law of Human Dignity and Liberty basically violates itself (http://www.servat.unibe.ch/law/icl/is12000_.html)... "Section 8 Violation of rights There shall be no violation of rights under this Basic Law except by a Law fitting the values of the State of Israel, designed for a proper purpose, and to an extent no greater than required or by such a law enacted with explicit authorization therein."