AJC dismisses white phosphorus attacks and destruction of flour mill as ‘Oliver Stone’ fantasy

Israel/PalestineUS Politics
on 21 Comments

Shame. The American Jewish Committee attacks the Goldstone report and for not one instant examines factual allegations: that white phosphorus was dropped indiscriminately in civilian areas, that the chief food production of the strip was willfully destroyed, and so on. The indifference of a Jewish organization to these actual factual statements is simply staggering blindness. And look at this attack on the Gaza Community Mental Health program, and Eyad El-Serraj. From Ed Rettig of AJC:

[Goldstone’s] panel often neglected the most basic examination of
the testimony it heard.  Transcripts reveal the credulous atmosphere
in which the commission did its work. When a psychiatrist, Dr. Iyyad
el-Sarraji, suggested that "inside Israel there is an identification
with the aggressor, the Nazi," no one challenged the extraordinary
charge. that thThe credibility of the Goldstone Report, then, resembles that
of an Oliver Stone movie, a problem that its author either cannot see
or chooses not to address.

Well 95 percent of Israelis supported the slaughter. If you don’t think we have psychic work to do involving our projection of the Nazi experience, you should read Avraham Burg on this subject.

Also in this piece Rettig attacks Leonard Fein of the Forward for this piece without mentioning his name. Seems like a dis. (Inside Jewish baseball– sorry!) To his credit, Rettig also goes after the University of Buffalo Hillel’s decision to invite General Effie Eitam, an Israeli propagandist and racist.

we have the UB Hillel’s invitation to a decorated Israeli general, whose hard-line approach in the Knesset was epitomized in a 2006 declaration at the funeral of a fallen IDF officer: "We cannot be with all these Arabs, we’ll have to expel the overwhelming majority of West Bank Arabs from here and remove Israeli Arabs from the political system."  The attorney-general of Israel informed him that this constituted incitement and that he would be prosecuted if he repeated it. He has not done so, and yet he has never recanted or apologized, nor gave any reason to suspect that these are not his genuinely held beliefs. Why this particular Hillel thought that someone who has advocated the transfer of Arabs out of the country was an appropriate speaker on Israel-related issues is a question I hope the board of that institution is pondering.

21 Responses

  1. marc b.
    November 11, 2009, 10:32 am

    we’ll have to expel the overwhelming majority of West Bank Arabs from here and remove Israeli Arabs from the political system.

    Translation of the General’s comment: “We’ll need to keep some sand n#gggers to wash the dishes and scrub the toilets.”

    • Citizen
      November 11, 2009, 11:18 am

      cont’d “And we’ll use US dollers to pay for the help. No skin off our backs. Plenty more where those dollars come from–you don’t see Obama nodding; we all do.”

  2. MRW
    November 11, 2009, 11:39 am

    I’ll say it again. If this is how the AJC treats information that we were able to see on TV and can review on YouTube, then what does it mean about what it says about the Holocaust numbers? [And yes, I am specifically referring to the change after the Soviet archives were discovered in 1989, and Yehuda Bauer, respected head of Vad Yashem in Israel, dropped the number of Auschwitz Jewish dead to 900,000 from 4 million…although the plaque now reads, if I can remember without checking, 1.1 to 1.5 including Jews, Christians, Roma, Garani, Russian Orthodox, Muslim, etc.] The six million camp figure is wrong. Or, have they decided to haul in war dead in Russia. That was shooting on the fields of battle; either way it’s despicable to inflate to maintain a point.

    • potsherd
      November 11, 2009, 12:09 pm

      I don’t see how this is relevant to the issue at hand.

      • Nolan
        November 11, 2009, 1:19 pm

        It illustrates the hypocrisy of “If it happens to us, it’s true. But, if it happens to them, we reserve the right to call it a myth”, regardless of the number of casualties or the methods by which people were killed.

    • Michael Weiz
      December 2, 2009, 10:12 am

      MRW, there is no excuse for commenting like that. Yes, it’s atrocious people are thrown in prison for denial – but they really are complete idiots. Almost the only part of the entire Holocaust Industry that is valid and genuine is the 6 million (or, upwards of 5.1 million, anyway) deaths.

      How can we be so sure? Well, look at Raul Hilberg’s work documenting the Holocaust – he did all of that against the opposition of people similar to those who now worship and push this new religion we’re all beholden to, “TheHolocaust”. There’s been an immense blizzard of schlock covering many miles of book-shelves since, but the basic numbers are in no serious doubt.

      • MRW
        December 2, 2009, 11:01 am

        Michael Weiz,

        Raul Hilberg documented the Holocaust before the Soviet Auschwitz archives were discovered in the 80s, and when he first wrote The Destruction he didn’t have access to archives and records. To his enormous credit he edited it about 25 years later; Hilberg was a careful historian.

        Look, I’m on this board getting pissed because 1400+ Gazans were killed during three weeks almost a year ago. It’s not the numbers. It’s the racist murder. And that’s what happened in WWII. Jews were killed for being Jews. For fucking biology. Dont, ever, under any circumstances think I condone or doubt that.

        But the greater issue here is the accuracy of the numbers, and when people are thrown in jail for even bringing the topic up — for crissake, they’ve even kept the 17 million Soviet docs secret — I want to know why. Does it make what happened in WWII less appalling if only 300,000 were killed vs 3 or 17 million? These weren’t soldiers, but hounded civilians, and those numbers need to be honored and counted, not exaggerated or diminished.

      • Michael Weiz
        December 2, 2009, 11:33 am

        Hilberg’s work is based on the German documents and he got the number 5.1 million first-class Holocaust victims. Other researchers get somewhat more, some of them over 6 million. The USSR records are, I’d have thought, unlikely to add much. The Soviets murdered a lot of Poles while they were there (their behavior may have been worse than that of the Nazis), but they were less selective (less racist?) about murder.

        Now, there is the appearance of funny business, because the number “6 million” was being thrown round in 1919. Yad Vashem can only find 3 million names, and Israel has multiplied the number of survivors by 10 (from 100,000 to 1 million) in order to cheat real survivors and buy friends. But there’s no good reason to doubt the 6 million number – and some of the people doing so are more than just stupid.

        Remind the racists what Miles Lerman, Chairperson, United States Holocaust Memorial Council said in 1995: “Auschwitz teaches us that we cannot remain indifferent, that we cannot look the other way when atrocities take place, that we must always be ready to speak out against evil no matter where it takes place and no matter who the victims are.”

      • MRW
        December 2, 2009, 11:50 am

        Michael Weiz,

        I agree.
        Since no one is going to come to this thread, allow me to copy an op-ed from the LA Times that the excellent Benjamin Schwarz, literary editor for The Atlantic Monthly wrote. I add it here because of your mention of the Russians. He wrote it in response to Tom Brokaw’s The Greatest Generation. The link probably doesn’t work because it was behind a fee firewall, which I paid to access.

        link to articles.latimes.com

        Archive for Thursday, June 22, 2000

        A Serious Case of Mistaken Identity
        By Benjamin Schwarz
        June 22, 2000 in print edition B-11

        Each June, Americans rightfully honor the bravery and sacrifice of the men who invaded Normandy in 1944. Recently, however, this celebration has too often lapsed into a solipsistic and deeply flawed revision of the U.S. role in World War II, which leads to equally self-congratulatory but far more dangerous conclusions about America’s purpose in the world today. If Americans are to get a more balanced view of their history and their global role, we should remember another June anniversary: today, the 59th anniversary of Germany’s invasion of Russia.

        A national mythology has emerged that in 1941 the United States, appalled by the horrific policies of the Nazis, deliberately embarked on a crusade to rid the world of Hitler and to stop the Holocaust. D-Day was, according to this version of events, the decisive point in the “Good War,” when American troops, piously aware of the noble cause for which they fought, began the military operations that defeated Nazi Germany. Having beat Hitler and made possible a better world, the United States remains to this day what Secretary of State Madeleine Albright declares “the indispensable nation.”

        Some reminders are in order.

        First, of course, such a view slights the anti-Japanese dimension of the U.S. war, which was the real reason the United States had gone to war in the first place. Nazi Germany declared war on the United States in accord with its treaty with Japan; only then did the U.S.declare that Germany was its enemy too. For most Americans, the purpose of the war remained to exact revenge on the Japanese.

        Second, stopping the mass murder of the Jews didn’t figure in any way in either American war aims or conduct. As for American soldiers and sailors, they fought the war, as historian and critic Paul Fussell declares, “in an ideological vacuum.” The war was “about your military unit and your loyalty to it.” Plainly put, they fought the war to end it so that they could go home, a point of view entirely reasonable and even courageous, but hardly high-minded.

        As far as the U.S. contribution to defeating the Nazis goes, even though Time magazine anointed Gen. Dwight D. Eisenhower as “The Man Who Defeated Hitler,” if any one man deserves that label, it’s Soviet Army Marshal G.K. Zhukov, or possibly Josef Stalin. The main scene of the Nazis’ defeat wasn’t Normandy or anywhere else Americans fought, but rather the Eastern Front, where the conflict was the most terrible war fought in history. It claimed 50 million Soviet civilian deaths and 29 million Soviet military casualties. But more to the point, Americans should recall that about 88% of all German casualties fell in the war with Russia.

        Until the Normandy invasion–from June 1941 to June 1944–almost the whole of the Nazi war machine was concentrated in the East; and even two months after D-Day, well over half the German army was still fighting the Soviets. Military historians date the war’s turning point two years before D-Day when, at Stalingrad, the Soviets eradicated 50 divisions from the Axis order of battle, or nearly one year before when, at the Battle of Kursk, the Red Army smashed the Wehrmacht’s strategic tank force, breaking the Nazis’ capacity for large-scale attack. And it was the Red Army that liberated Auschwitz and bore down on Hitler’s bunker.

        The moral narcissism that characterizes recent American discussion of our role in World War II breeds within too many of our statesmen a smug and reckless pride. After all, the thinking goes, if history has shown the United States to be so virtuous, then any that oppose us must be evil.

        Today, Americans need not honor the Russian dead as we do our own, but we should give credit where credit is due, and we must not make exaggerated claims for ourselves. In contemplating how our WWII role influences our conduct in the contemporary world, Americans should remember that self-righteousness is bad enough, but when it springs largely from a self-serving mythology, it is insufferable.

        79 million Russians died. Stunning.

      • Michael Weiz
        December 2, 2009, 12:23 pm

        The Russians did the lion’s share of defeating Hitler – including the final assault on Berlin, taking enormous numbers of casualties, while we stood back 60Km.

        I don’t know the details, but the Russians let us have our sectors of Berlin as they’d agreed – and we proceeded to cause chaos. One trick was to replace all the currency in West Germany only, completely undermining the economy of the East and triggering the Berlin blockade. We hired all the ex-Nazi spies under their leader Gehlen, who defended their interests (ie not facing justice!) by embarking on the Cold War. Nazi-hunting Simon Wiesenthal worked for US intelligence. “In over thirty years he had never criticized American intelligence for hiring Nazis. During the same thirty years, Soviet propaganda had frequently denounced Wiesenthal as an agent of Western intelligence, accusing him of hunting only those Nazis who were not on NATO’s payroll.” (from a weird book by John Loftus “The Secret War Against the Jews: How Western Espionage Betrayed The Jewish People” which also justifies Israel attacking and trying to sink the USS Liberty).

        Back to the Holocaust – histories of WWII in the immediate aftermath don’t mention it. Don’t mention Jews, gas-chambers or Auschwitz or any of the other things we’re told were so central to the story. Liddell Hart was a particular favorite of the Israeli military up until the 1960s – and he doesn’t mention the Holocaust either!

        However, it’s still dumb to doubt the “6 million” number because it’s near enough genuine and true.

      • Chaos4700
        December 2, 2009, 12:38 pm

        There’s also the odd fact that Russian extermination of Jews often goes unmentioned in Zionist perspectives — ostensibly, because Russia’s good graces and cooperation have been useful, both in making sure the US has to keep courting Israel and also because their cooperation was vital to importing more Jews — whether they were actually Jewish or not (but at least they were white, and that’s good enough for Israel)

      • MRW
        December 2, 2009, 12:40 pm

        Michael Weiz,

        “I don’t know the details.” I used to know them, because they were amazing, right up to the airlift. We betrayed the Russians in those two years after the war ended and we caused the Cold War as a result. No wonder we were known as The Ugly Americans.

        Did you ever see the World Almanac figures for the number of Jews by country, supplied by the American Jewish Committee, for 1938 and, I think 1948 or 49? The deniers have glommed onto them, but I would love to hear a description of the discrepancies.

      • MRW
        December 2, 2009, 12:43 pm

        During what time period, chaos? WWII? or the Cold War?

      • Michael Weiz
        December 4, 2009, 4:51 am

        Is there evidence that the Russians selected Jews for murder? Is there evidence that the Russians selected Christians for murder?

    • America First
      December 2, 2009, 11:53 am

      Another “righteous gentile” runs afoul of the Holocau$t Industry:

      Say it isn’t so: Charles Johnson trivializes the Holocaust

      Holocaust denial is one of the few things that is either black or white.

      link to israelmatzav.blogspot.com

      Then again, Krauthammer said there was “moral clarity” in Gaza.

  3. Donald
    November 11, 2009, 12:01 pm

    “Or, have they decided to haul in war dead in Russia. That was shooting on the fields of battle”

    The “shooting on the fields of battle” in Russia that you are talking about was the massacre of unarmed men, women, and children. WTF is wrong with you?

  4. Nolan
    November 11, 2009, 1:13 pm

    Here’s an idea for an exercise in illustrating hypocrisy, call the AJC and ask them whether it’s true that Jews were actually killed during the Holocaust, then say, “It doesn’t make sense because in a war there’s so much confusion and it’s hard to tell who did what to whom”. Ask the AJC to explain whether the testimony of many Palestinians regarding their experiences in Gaza is pure fabrication. Ask them if they are prepared to throw the blame for the existence of the Jabalia Concentration Camp on the Palestinians as is usually the case with Hasbara.

    • Michael Weiz
      December 2, 2009, 11:12 am

      A quick google discovers that nobody else in the history of the world has ever refered to the “Jabalia Concentration Camp”. The Gaza strip is a concentration camp, many of the people there only arrived after pogroms, all have been further victimised by pogroms and the place is disturbingly reminiscent to the Warsaw Ghetto – but there’s no need to invent innacurate terms!

      In any case, a better display of hypocrisy can be exposed by asking almost any defender of Israel whether they want rocketeering Hamas militants prosecuted. There’s a mysterious reluctance to call for them to stand trial!

      • MRW
        December 2, 2009, 12:55 pm


        link to alternet.org
        Search the page for Jabalia. Looks like it was Nolan’s poetic license.

      • Michael Weiz
        December 3, 2009, 1:37 pm

        Not many, but a few of the people who wish to see justice for the Palestinians do harm by this kind of behaviour.

        We’re reminded of the Swedish “organ-harvesting” story. Israel is known to steal organs (from Israelis as well as from Palestinians), it’s known to be a major source of trafficked organs and it’s not impossible they did harvest organs. But there’s no evidence for it and the suspicions were all a long time ago. So why, when there is so much good evidence, come out with something so feeble and offensive?

        Mind you, Palestinians themselves are not much better – go to PalestineRemembered.com and find the entry for the village of Sirin. You’ll see almost nothing humanising in the article and it repeats the unlikely canard that it was evacuated under Arab orders. It’s unlikely because Sirin is so much off the beaten path on the border between two Mandatory regions, and unlikely because it’s known there were people there when it was destroyed. (At most, the the suggestion is that Arabs might have been ordered the people to leave and many went back). Why do Palestinians record this nasty piece of utterly worthless hasbara? Ilan Pappe has good information on the place, making it sound like a little Garden of Eden and noting that the ethnic cleansers didn’t want it and there are none there now.

  5. Chu
    November 11, 2009, 1:36 pm

    When you look at these statements (they’ve probably been going on for years, although unpublicized) they really seemed to have lost their way. They’ve turned so far from reality, they can’t get back on the road.

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