Earlier this year a friend told me that we have a megaphone here and we should use it to build support in the leftleaning community for Obama to put pressure on the Israeli government over the key issue of settlements as he forges the two-state-solution. Other friends of mine were more contemptuous of Obama’s efforts, but I thought my friend was right because a certain amount of falling-into-line is important in politics, which after all is the art of the possible. Today’s news from Jerusalem fills me with sadness and rage, and a sharp edge, too, that I don’t want to be made a fool.
Another point before the news. At a panel at J Street last week on what it means to be "pro-Israel," Jonathan Chait and Matthew Yglesias, who both declare themselves to be pro-Israel, mentioned me as a bridge too far. Chait said It’s fine if this group wants to criticize Israel some, but don’t get outside "the mainstream," don’t go near the Phil Weiss position. I’m told that Yglesias somewhat echoed the point, mentioning me; and I am sure that moderator JJ Goldberg shares the view, too. I have news for that panel: In my political community I am actually a moderate/softie, because I have some compassion for the Israelis as creatures of imperialist history, just like the rest of us. But almost everyone I talk to about these issues is to my left. Many of those teachers are younger than me–Adam Horowitz, Antony Loewenstein, Anna Baltzer, and Seham–and I would argue that they are driving the conversation, and the conversation is moving leftward because the right and center are bankrupt, they have produced nothing but dispossession and permanent war. Why, this morning on NPR, host Jacki Lyden in an interview with J Street’s leader said that AIPAC has "long had a huge role in determining America’s relationship with Israel." I remind you that just two years ago realists Walt and Mearsheimer were railroaded as alleged anti-Semites for saying as much, and today their assertion is mainstream--because of the reality, the news from Jerusalem in my headline. So to you writers and critics who prophesy with your pen: don’t speak too soon, for the wheel’s still in spin, and there’s no telling who that it’s naming.
From the New York Times:
[Clinton] also markedly softened her tone on whether Israel should cease all settlement construction, something she and Mr. Obama have demanded since early in the administration. While Mrs. Clinton said the administration’s desire to see a complete freeze had not changed, she characterized Mr. Netanyahu’s offer of “restraint” on settlements as “unprecedented.”
And she conspicuously avoided criticizing the demolition of Palestinians’ houses in East Jerusalem, though she said her opposition to it had not changed. In March, on her first visit to the Middle East as secretary of state, Mrs. Clinton strongly condemned the demolitions, which Palestinians say are aimed at squeezing them out and would hamper the creation of a Palestinian state.
In recent days, the municipal authorities in Jerusalem have ordered the demolition of more houses.
HR 867 denouncing Goldstone and latest the resolution on Iran are positive proof that the AIPAC forces* are controlling the US Congress. It’s simply not deniable anymore.
*including J Street, by now very obviously
What amazed me is how fast Congress can act on a bill. With all the issues Americans have before them: credit card interest still at 30%, overdraft fees through the roof, people losing their homes, and joblessness as the winter hits . . . and Congress takes up a bill in the Halls of Congress to silence accusations of war crimes and possible crimes against humanity to protect a foreign country from even independent investigation.
Yep, MRW. Same as Congress recently resolved to economically punish Iran even more–passed like greased butter. How recently has Iran instigated anything like
OP Cast Lead, or Shrub’s shock and awe? Do you recall how FDR blocked Imperial Japan from oil?
Well, we had a great country while it lasted, didn’t we? Sort of.
You mean, until the European settlers showed up in the 15th century?
Whom the Americans kicked out in 1776 to create this country.
Touche. Could we settle for maybe having been a good country, then?
I’m also socialized into the “left” community, and I am considered alternately a visionary and a turncoat, particularly around sustainability issues.
A visionary for articulating an integrated approach to realize an actual sustainable society, a turncoat for including business prominently in that articulated vision.
A visionary for coherently arguing for a regional decentralist socialist economic orientation, a turncoat for emphasizing the macro-regional economy (New England) over the local.
A visionary for urging that Israel today cease all settlement construction, and for successfully (with a very limited audience) why the green line with a treaty is more secure than any fortress Israel without.
A “turncoat” for regarding Zionism as currently relevant, a work in process, that needs reformers investment in its reform (its completion) rather than divestment of its reform in reaction (the root of reactionary) or despondency.
Would you mind maybe quoting where you’ve been called a visionary? By anyone except yourself, I mean.
witty, i think you’re a weasel, just like clinton… you are free to think what you want..
“I’m also socialized into the “left” community, and I am considered alternately a visionary and a turncoat, particularly around sustainability issues”
We have a advice-column writer in our local Seattle Weekly who writes in the character of “The Uptight Seattleite”
I hope he doesn’t read this blog, if he sees that Witty has both mastered and surpassed all the pretentious condescension and phoniness he tries to put into his column. He’ll be relieved Witty is completely lost to any of the irony, anyway.
And again Witty gives me something to replace ipecac in my medicine cabinet, especially if I need to throw up in my mouth, a little.
Nothing like being a legend in one’s own mind.
If Witty was on TV he’d be the postal worker on Seinfeld reruns.
In a way, that’s an insult to Newman (the postal worker).
Do you think Nazism or South African simply needed reform too Witty?
There’s only one answer: BDS. Start making Avery Label stickers on your home computers (actually, better to use self-serve at Kinkos because of microscopic code printers leave as identifiers…dont ask me…dont ) and attach them to everything as you go about your day.
and attach them to everything as you go about your day.
I like that idea.
Over two years ago, I bought a few platic containers for starting seeds at the dollar store. I never got around to using them. Two weeks back, I turned one over to make holes in it for drainage and a “made in Israel” label stared back at me. Of course I was disgusted. But too late for returns.
Who would have thought they made stuff for the dollar store?
Check those labels people. Don’t buy shit that’s made in Israel if you can help it.
Phil,
The next question is what are you going to do with that anger?
You could get more vociferous, more in line with your community. Or, you could get more thoughtful, distinguish what you think IS valid, from what is not, and urge reforms particularly, compellingly.
My own view towards that is to simultaneously describe the respect for the association of the Jewish people and the respect for the association of Palestinians. And, in arguing to the Jewish community, define how reconciliation is simultaneously more secure and more humane than fortress or veiled expansionism.
That is DIFFERENT from any formula that “Zionism is racism”, which I equate to my friends’ efforts in 1973 outside of Eugene, OR, to form a federation of communities to economic and cultural cooperation, and to buy as much of the land in the few towns south of Eugene that we could, and “take over”.
Which was responded to local rednecks by periodic harrassment and even random gunfire at buildings on our community on two occassions.
We were ecotopian. You know “Zionists”. Colonialists.
Mister Witty, what is a “redneck?”
Do they live in some Ecotopia too?
Mister Witty, what is a “redneck?”
Do they live in some Ecotopia too?
“We were ecotopian. You know “Zionists”. Colonialists”
Sure you were, Witty! I bet you moved into Oregon, just like the Zionists moved into Jaffa!
I Googled “1973 Communes Eugene Oregon”
So Witty was with the “The Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh: An Indian Commune in Oregon”? Who’d a thunk it?
The Rajneesh commune in Oregon started in 1980, in a town 65 miles east of Portland.
So much for your web research.
I lived in a town called Creswell, near Loraine and Drain. There were 10-15 communes within five miles of us, and we shared farming equipment, logging equipment, work, parties.
We were changing the world. A good thing.
I saw the press conference yesterday. I couldn’t help but get infuriated when Clinton backtracked on the demand of a settlement freeze and failed to correct Netanyahu when he said settlements are a non-issue when it comes to peace negotiations. If Obama’s the great hope for peace in the Middle-East, then God help us.
Gideon Levy – America, Stop Sucking Up to Israel
link to haaretz.com
Sorry, Gideon, but there’s no chance. Congress and the WH have been either bought or intimidated into silence.
Blackmailed. Every phone call, every cell phone call goes through Israel since CALEA in April 1994. if you bombed Amdocs in Tel Aviv, no one would get their phone/cell bill in the USA.
Watch the banned Fox News series for those who’ve never seen it:
link to informationclearinghouse.info
The report [concerning the AIPAC staffers espionage case] came after revelations about a wiretapped conversation during which California congresswoman Jane Harman had promised the powerful lobby to help nullify the accusations in exchange for aide for assuming the headship of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence.
Herman has denied having held any such conversation and denounced the eavesdropping as “abuse of power”.
link to presstv.ir
Imagine the Clintons talking in their closet, in their chosen darkness, the stained blue dress hanging behind them, those papers that were shoved down in those old pants.
Never saw politicians so craven till I saw Hillary and Bill during the last primary.
Thanks, Phil: you’re right, “Today’s news from Jerusalem fills me with sadness and rage, and a sharp edge, too, that I don’t want to be made a fool. ”
After unconscionably paying with U.S. billions for every bit of the Israeli Occupation, the “American” President Obama has just let Clinton stomp again on the imprisoned people of Palestine.
You’re right Phil, quoting lines from Bob Dylan at the end of your article definitely makes you a ‘softie’.
Unfortunately you and Bob are there to soften the hammer’s blow but not to stop it.
The skull of Palestine has been cracked open for 42 years – how much longer do you think we can wait before some nice Jewish doctor can come with bandage and morphina?
Some of us aren’t here to ‘spin’. Some of us are here to tell it just like it is.
Let’s keep things in perspective. First, the Obama administration was not the huge break from business as usual it advertised itself to be. Second, the emergence of even centrist organizations like J Street does indicates a frustration with the standard approach to Israel. Our job is to keep an eye on the real issues and to make both political enemies and friends aware of what we see. Did anyone really expect Clinton to say anything different? Apparently “unprecedented concessions” to the Secretary of State means a reduction from Israel’s grand larceny to reduced levels of larceny. In the administration’s Alice-in-Wonderland world, this is apparently something to praise. But are you really surprised? How many times has Clinton made aliyah to AIPAC conventions? Probably more than the combined ages of my adult children.
It’s clear now that J Street was set up to divert and deflect the growing frustration with the US capitulation to Israel. Bait and switch.
That’s exactly it. J Street is being used to divert attention from the global Boycott Divestment and Sanctions movement.
Any person of conscience and self respect should ignore J Street and get behind the BDS movement.
“Earlier this year a friend told me that we have a megaphone here and we should use it to build support in the leftleaning community for Obama to put pressure on the Israeli government over the key issue of settlements as he forges the two-state-solution. ”
There is an element of negligence on Phil’s part for going quiet on this megaphone, in favor of more diverse anti-Zionist approaches. Rather than put his weight into succeeding at one thing, he (collectively) failed at the many that he attempted.
It’s kind of ironic that you’re establishing yourself as some sort of authority or expert on failure, Witty.
I’ve seen and been in some leadership roles in movements, efforts that succeeded, and I’ve seen some fail.
Failure can be in the result (“We accomplished the tactical goal that we set out to, but it fucked up the world more in achieving our success”.)
Or, failure can be in not achieving the goal. (“We didn’t accomplish a single-state solution as a result of BDS”.)
The only goal I see in your rhetoric is legitimizing and apologizing for Israel’s crimes by, among other things, poisoning dialog among Jewish Americans on the left end of the American political spectrum.
Which, incidentally, will be a practical lesson in failure for you, I predict.
We’ll see Chaos.
I don’t know your name, so its unlikely that your anonymous either victory or recanting will bear any weight to anyone.
While we’re speaking of victories, Witty, how’s the job hunt going? Do rubber-stamping auditors get unemployment, out of curiosity?
My goal is to persuade Israelis and American Jews to choose policies and behaviors that are benevolent, enhance the prospect of peace.
I regard persuasion as necessary because I note that the Israeli community is so determined to remain Zionist, and is strong militarily, and therefore a military or terror assault or orchestrated isolation campaign, would have worse consequences than the current wrongs. (In the form of additional Israeli excessive military efforts, actual dispossession en masse of Palestinians from the West Bank, and continued terror on Israeli civilians. All of that, I desire to avoid.)
So, if you have to persuade Israelis and American Jews, the next question is what is the most effective means to do so?
I don’t regard threat alone as effective in the slightest. Phil’s “success” at persuading American Jews to renounce Zionism and Israel, to threaten Israel in some form, won’t affect Israel in the way that he or you imagine. They will still be funded, armed, powerful, committed, more committed.
It will only divide, but not for a purpose.
But, I KNOW Jews. They are fearful certainly, and at the same time they are compassionate. If you ask Phil about his mother’s attitude toward the issue that he’s alluded to as an example of a generation, you will certainly discover that she hopes (literally) for Palestinian improvement in life, but NOT in an zero-sum either/or manner.
So, if there is a win-win that can get constructed confidently, American and Israeli Jews will adopt it. If it is constructed of Palestinians win, Israelis lose, it will be rejected and fought, rationally.
The starting point is difficult, with now almost a century of cumulative distrust.
One of my theses is that WE co-create our future. So, the tenor of our comments, IS important. If we invest in either/or approaches, that will reverberate. Options that could have been pursued will be impossible.
Better that we make good options possible, and be very concise about what we object to.
Reform in a word. Agitate if you like, but concisely, strategically, successfully, rather than punitively, angrily, and ineffectively for the untrustworthiness of anger only.
I’ve seen nothing of compassion in your own words, Witty, merely partisanship toward the failed racist ideology that is Israel.
How many international laws has Israel violated? How many UN resolutions have they defied? And you still think they need to be “persuaded” and “negotiated with.” And in the mean time, Palestinians are still getting their homes demolished and their farms razed.
Does it bother you at all, Witty, that this century it’s the Jews who are leading the pogroms?
Gah. Did I really just say “the Jews?” See how easily this rhetoric gets poisoned by Zionism? Jews of all kinds were victims of pogroms but it’s only Zionist Jews who are leading them now.
So Chaos,
How do you propose that the razing of farms cease?
Do you think giving Netanyahu the room to be accountable to no one accomplishes it?
Also, If you don’t discern compassion in my comments (BOTH to Israelis and Palestinians), they you’re not reading very well.
You throw accusations around so cavalierly.
Chaos, have you noticed the similarities between the aforementioned hack and J Street? I’m sure you have.
The part where Witty tried to twist Phil Weiss’ arm at the last minute to goad him to announce unequivocal support for J Street was a dead giveaway to me.
Witty, the IDF is using American money and equipment to do what it does. I think the answer is pretty simple — we collect on our debt, here and now, from Israel.
I think it’s pretty sad that you keep goading a response to me when you have no answer. More to the point, you don’t seem to care that the Israeli government is committing crimes against humanity. You propose that military action against Hamas is necessary for far, far less but you don’t apply your own rationale to Israel?
Do you? You vindicate military action against Hamas for rockets which cause a tiny fraction of the death and destruction that the Israeli occupation machine wreaks. Do you vindicate military action against Israel, then?
Or will you reveal yourself to be a hypocrite yet again?
BDS is the only way regular people can take action against the Apartheid, racist and colonialist State of Israel.
Israel is the enemy. This is not a misunderstanding between two peoples. This is one people destroying another people.
This is not about reconciliation. This is about justice.
And just because it is about justice, does not imply people have to be killed.
This is about bringing a powerful, racist, immoral State to it’s knees in order to bring about change and a resolution to the conflict.
Just as racist SA was subjected to BDS. Israel – should be as well.
We need to stop chewing the fat and wasting time w/ these worthless rhetorical games. People are suffering. The occupation is a DAILY act of violence against an entire people.
Israel aims to slowly over time, destroy the Palestinians. Israel is not misunderstood. The US is not misunderstood. These are long-term strategies.
Rome was not built in a day. Think back to the civil rights movement or the abolishment of slavery.
Why – WHY – do we have to think of the Israelis or the organized Jewish community as our FRIENDS who we should be reconciling with? They are not our friends. They are carrying out ethnic cleansing, and mass murder. They are stealing homes and land and resources. These people are CRIMINALS.
Just because Palestinians aren’t being held in shackles does not mean they aren’t slaves.
Just because Palestinians aren’t being thrown into ovens and gas chambers, does not mean they aren’t being destroyed.
This site is a good way to be informed and to see the glimpse of the other side (Witty). Zionists are playing the waiting game.
I have said this for years on this website. Witty is a microcosm for Zionism and the Iron Wall strategy.
He is a goddamn liar who will inundate this forum w/ bullshit rhetoric that is aimed at DELAYING and DISTRACTING.
When you equate both sides of the conflict, the Zionists win. Because the REALITY – is that Jewish identity and power are powerful social taboos that cannot be questioned as it is.
Jews on the Left are themselves gatekeepers. There was a Palestinian who spoke here on this blog and he made a good point when he said (I think) even Jews on the Left don’t see Palestinians as human beings but clay of Jewish humanism.
All this back and forth we do here is meaningless if it doesn’t convert into ACTION.
What Witty wants is more talking. Endless talking. But you all need to think about the logistical result of your ‘talking’.
Mooser is as annoying and as distracting. How often is it that he comes here and makes lameass jokes? And when he IS serious, he’s busy disassociating Jewishness from Zionism. The gist of which I agree, but he does it completely. It’s such bullshit.
Witty and him are alike. Both are distractions.
I donate money. I participate in BDS. I do what little I can, but if we ALL do that much, it’s a lot in the end.
Stop participating in these STUPID rhetorical games. It’s not funny. I don’t see why we should give a shit about the self-righteous over socialized Jews on the Left. Who constantly act as parameters for what is alright to say.
That’s why Finkelstein is liked. Because he speaks the UNVARNISHED truth.
Witty’s language is infuriating. One, because he’s a pathological liar and hypocrite. And two, because is whitewashes the OVERWHELMING and DAILY abuses by the Zionist State against a virtually defenseless population.
Mooser is just a clown.
I agree with most of what you say. However, Mooser is not a clown and personal attacks are inappropriate. I think a few minutes of cool-down time is in order after writing when you ire is up, to allow for a final editing of personal attacks or other violations of the comments policy. Please help keep the site civilized.
cliff, i agree with your overview…
Ignoring zionist trolls is the only way to deal with them.
Life is too short.
I would suggest additional, more overt acts (tho they will require some courage).
A synagogue on a main road just outside Washington, DC, has a large sign on its front lawn that says, “We support Israel.” Fair enough, free speech and all that…
So I will hang an Iranian flag next to the American flag at my house and declare, “I support American friendship with Iran.”
Because I do. I believe friendly relations between US and Iran are in the best interests of the American people, Israel, and much of the rest of the world.
Do you support friendly relations between the US and Iran? Are you willing to say so publicly?
Cliff, what on earth are you on about? Look, if you want to go along the line that Zionism is the result of some essential failing in the Jewish character, please, go right ahead, try and sell it along those lines. You will probably have a lot of success with people who have no real (or even historical) knowledge of what colonial projects are like, or those, like our fiend America Fust-Cless, who have no objections to slavery and discrimination, it just bugs them when Jews do it. You will have great success, more likely among those who know few, or hardly any Jews.
“Mooser is just a clown.” Thank you, very much! I love to make people laugh, if I can! I have brought a smile to your careworn cheek, and relieved you for a moment from your oppresive sense of Jewish domination, my day has not been in vain!
“How often is it that he comes here and makes lameass jokes?” Sorry Cliff, but my mail, phone calls, e-mails and reviews all say you are wrong. And all my jokes are registered sockdolagers, nifty boffo yoks like Mother makes, and just the stuff to give the troops. I am a charter member of Jest-of-the-Month Club, and read Joker’s Digest.
And when have I ever argued against BDS, by the way? I’m all in favor of it! Give ‘em the BDS, says I, and with the full faith and fervor!
(Check state and local laws before doing so, and as always, knowing and trusting your partner(s) is the best way to avoid unfortunate consequences)
“Rome was not built in a day.”
Cliff, whether it took a day, a week, or a decade to build Rome it was entirely built by slave labor. I’m pretty sure many of them might have been Jews, too.
Rome, feh!
I agree, Mooser is just a clown, and actually a really bad clown like Borat–in fact a racist clown just the same. He’s not even slightly funny; actually Witty is funnier
because he’s not even aware of the implications of what he says–he shares that with Shub, the former POTUS for 8 years. OTH, if Witty really is aware, he’s just a NAZI disguised as a Zionist. Goebbels and Streicher love Witty and Mooser from their graves.
Psychopathic god,
True story: My friend, who is non-political and doesn’t even vote, was so mad about Gaza that she got busy making an A4 sign that read: ” Shame on Israel” and stuck it on the window of her car. Well someone with a bigger car tried to run her off the highway while she was driving in the slow lane. She was in too much of a shock to take down the license plate number. She took the sign down soon as she got home.
Free speech?
More like costly speech is you critique Israel.
And Witty wonders why I’ve learned to be anonymous on the internet when I can afford it.
“I agree, Mooser is just a clown, and actually a really bad clown like Borat–in fact a racist clown just the same.”
What on earth are you talking about? Hey, I know, for a start, why don’t you tell us who I am “racist” towards. I will gladly confess to not liking you and the ideas you often espouse (at second-hand, I’m convinced, which makes them more contemptible if somewhat less deeply seated, thankfully.)
Anyway, I’m all agog and ready to hear about my “racism” from you. Don’t forget to include the toll it’s taken on you, and your race.
Mooser, you are a goddamn clown.
And you’re proving me right when you purposefully straw man my point when referring to the phrase “Rome wasn’t built in a day.”
It has nothing to do w/ slave labor or whatever. I’m not saying Rome is great.
I’m saying that these are long-standing policies. That people are focusing on the trees and not the forest.
Bottom-line: No one is looking at the bigger picture.
People are getting wrapped up in these intellectual and purely academic debates about antisemitism like it even fucking matters. It doesn’t.
We need to convert all this verbiage on both sides into logistics. We need to appraise the value of our rhetoric as it relates to action and effectiveness in that action.
And BDS is the only option for regular people. I never said you were against BDS. I said, you come here and make stupid jokes when none of this is funny. None of it is.
And you only get serious when someone is being anti-Jewish.
I mean, I think I was pretty clear. ‘Rome was not built in a day’ means that these policies are tactics of a long-term strategy. Kind of like running out the clock in a sporting match. It’s all strategy.
People are PROJECTING human qualities on to this strategy. It doesn’t work that way.
Structural changes have to take place first. Then the individuals in a community can build bridges on their own to another people who are willing to accept them and vice versa.
Without those structural changes, you take 1 step forward and 2 steps back.
So my frustration with you is that you come here and do your song and dance. You don’t say one thing to do w/ the subject. Usually even when you do dismiss people, you do it in the SAME kind of way a Zionist does. Little substance, citation – more of those insults. Like playing w/ someone’s user name.
That’s what Michael L. did. A lot of the intellectual characteristics of Zionist trolls here, you share as well.
I don’t even know WHY you’re anti-Zionist. Why are you? Anyways, carry on, clown.
Guys? Let’s not start a circular firing squad here.
Mooser, anyone who comes here regularly can read your comments. I will let them
decide if you are a stupid racist clown, or not.
Shaykh Hamza Karamali, a Canadian Islamic scholar, makes a good point that I should be reflected upon by those of us who are frustrated with certain people who apologize for Zionism. Although the Shaykh is not talking about Zionists or politics, if you were to replace the word “books” with the words ” text comments”, you will see how what he says is relevant to this discussion:
“The point of writing books, though, is to convince readers, not to gratify one’s own ego by refuting them. If a reader is treated with respect, his ego will give way; if his ignorance is brazenly exposed, his ego will protest even if it knows that it is wrong”
A synagogue on a main road just outside Washington, DC, has a large sign on its front lawn that says, “We support Israel.” Fair enough, free speech and all that…
The one off Connecticut Avenue across the street from the Uptown Theater? Yes. I’ve seen that shameless sign. It was put up while the massacre in Gaza was taking place, as if to tacitly approve of such barbaric slaughter.
Nolan -
hmm, Connecticut Ave too.
I was thinking of the one on Old Georgetown Road in Bethesda, just a stone’s throw from hdq of Lockheed Martin.
as if to tacitly approve of such barbaric slaughter.
“Tacitly?” Nothing tacit about it – that’s explicit, overt, shamelessly open complicity.
The trashing of Mooser here is both wrong and a waste of time. I don’t enjoy his humor, but it’s one thing to dislike his brand of humor and quite another to denounce him as harshly as a couple of you are doing. He’s an anti-Zionist Jew who is also allergic to any whiff of antisemitism. This seems like an eminently sensible position to me.
I actually like Mooser and his humor myself, and other than that difference I have to agree with Donald on everything. Like I said, we don’t need the circular firing squad.
Phil “failed at the many that he attempted?” Really. And where is your successful blog? Seems to me you’re sucking daddy’s thumb here.
Are you joking? Mooser is a clown? Can you please cite an example of when Mooser was all “ZOMG Palestinians are thirsty and its their own fault!”
Mooser’s brought a lot of intelligent commentary to this blog and to many other blogs that debate the I/P conflict. Just because he identifies with Judaism does not make his opinions any less valid.
Phil, i would consider being called out like that as a badge of honor. J Street might just be a fabrication to provide context for white-house policy, which seems to be: aggressively seal deal with uncle-tom to sell out Palestinians, retain a zionist state, and create bantustan-west bank . There’s little concern from the white house that Abbas has no credibility, let alone the ongoing flagrant oppression of Palestinians in all quarters.
The real left acknowledges “jewish democracy” as an oxymoron.
…and yes to BDS! Witty would drain all of our energy with rhetoric that we could be using on BDS campaigns.
Yes, that is exactly what Witty tries to do. The BDS campaign does not ignore reality, while Witty does–too bad Witty’s never had a private talk with any congressmen regarding what happens if you criticize Israeli policy. Well, it wouldn’t matter to Witty anyway. He likes things as they are and simply wants to maintain the status quo.
It is the Wittys of this world that enable Israel to continue its criminal course, knowing that no force will be applied to stop or punish them.
i agree andrewfelluss.. the fact phil is drawing this kind of attention speaks volumes… a voice that makes a difference and holds to a different position frightens many of these self appointed mouthpieces… they are paying attention! phil has something very relevant to say…
MY, andrewfelluss, you do have a way of getting down to the nitty-gritty. I’ve not seen you post a comment here before. Please continue to do so.
This is why I adamantly refused to vote for Clinton. She is an AIPAC’er through and through. Thanks be to God that she isn’t sitting in the Oval Office, or we would almost certainly be at war with Iran and in a global depression worse than 1929.
I recall talk when HRC was considering taking the Secretary of State job that she might do so in pursuit of a Nobel Peace Prize for forging a just final status agreement in Palestine/Israel. The assumption behind this theory was that she was had no fundamental loyalties, and would turn against the wishes of the Israeli Lobby if it became in her interest to do so since they would no longer be supporting her Senate career.
I was skeptical. However, if true it must stick in her craw that Pres. Obama got a Nobel for doing absolutely nothing, and she is left with a job which is at this point, with respect to actually accomplishing anything but routine maintenance of the status quo far beneath her own abilities, pretty much a joke. Maybe she is trying to reestablish her pro-colonial Zionist credibility for a return to election politics.
BDS is such a simple act. It requires no organization. It requires no meetings. No treatises or manifestos, or swearing allegiance to anything other than personally objecting to what you see and hear that you dont like.
And it is inexpensive to carry out: Make labels. Slap BDS labels on everything you can get away with. It’s not destructive. Someone can take the labels off; they’re not permanent, like those bright orange things the police put on car windows.
But they are more effective than anything you can possibly imagine. Just as serious marketers in the Internet age have discovered — I dont have a link for this actual study — the cheapest and most effective way of being sure to reach people in your market is the lowly postcard. Everyone looks at postcards in their mail. Everyone. Before they pitch it, before they keep it: they look at it. Postcards have a 98% eyeball rate; the 2% allowing for bad addresses or misnaming of recipients.
So buy yourself a 100-label pack of of 2“x2” labels and fire away. You want to get your personal campaign going big-time? Use labelsonline.com, which we use in our work for mailouts because of the variety and price. [I have ZIPPO to do with this company...zilch...just used them for a decade.]
I’ve done s few of these campaigns in my time over local issues and I stick these things on the toilet paper holders in public bathrooms, on the side facing the occupant if its one of those honking black things that holds huge rolls, or inside the metal case if it holds just one roll. Most janitors never take them off. They think it’s a brand label.
When you really piss me off and it’s a product, I get clear labels and stick them on the back of products in stores. Not in huge amounts, but maybe two or three at a time, when I go to the store. The buyer sees it when he gets home.
You can’t get more grassroots than that…and it keeps my considerable temper down. :-)
I’m amazed at how enamored you are with lawlessness, in the name of supporting international law.
Lawlessness? How about civil disobedience? Better a label than a Bill that abrogates human rights, that outlaws war crimes and crimes against humanity.
The label is my proxy. It’s like showing up in person and bitching.
bds frightens you so go ahead and try to relabel it… think up something stupid as you have here, like lawlessnes! as if you are concerned about ”’lawlessness”’ lol…
Put another way: sticky pamphleteering.
Witty, my labels dont kill people. My labels dont advocate stealing land, and rendering a people destitute and starving. My labels are removable (even when they say permanent, which is what I use) …the acts of governments are not, not without huge effort and cost.
Says the guy who refuses to acknowledge that the murder of over a thousand innocent Palestinians during Operation Cast Lead (and the harm and deprivation of every soul imprisoned in Israel’s seige and perioidic bombing campaigns for that matter) as a crime.
You’re such a complete and utter phony, Witty.
To the car that you stick it on, its lawlessness.
You think that you are making a statement? Putting words in someone else’s mouth?
Better that you develop the credibility that your words have meaning, rather than the powerlessness of such juvenile “anarchy”.
Again, there are two “anarchies”.
1. Mutual aid
2. Juvenile destructiveness pretending to be political analysis
MRW,
You do know that what makes civil disobedience effective is that the disobedient IS willing to take personal responsibility for the “crime” in defense of the greater good.
That is different than your anonymous pamphleteering.
In 1980 and 81, I wrote for and edited twice-weekly a daily progressive newspaper in DC, that we posted on government buildings, busstops, banks even. We did a daily reading of the paper in Lafayette park.
We put our names, our addresses, our phone numbers on the papers.
Is stealing Palestinian water lawless? How about spraying white phosphorous on children?
Were that you were genuine, Witty, that you actually cared about the rule of law. Because then you’d be in the front of the line calling for sanctions against the Israeli rogue state, instead of defending her at every turn.
Witty: “To the car that you stick it on, its lawlessness.” I never advocated that. Go back and read. I wrote: “Someone can take the labels off; they’re not permanent, like those bright orange things the police put on car windows.” The bright orange things are put on cars. I said put them in public bathrooms. You know, you can take a little shit with your shit.
And dont buy Starbucks. They fuel the settlements with dough.
“And dont buy Starbucks. They fuel the settlements with dough.”
And they put out the worst slop and call it coffee, too! And I have (and still could) buy my latte at the coffee shop at the Starbucks corporate headquarters! And it’s still the same overly acidic, burnt stuff. Really, in a way, it’s sort of a wonders-of-the-Universe thing, you know? I sit there, trying to force the stuff down and think “with this, they built a coffee empire?”
Buy American and support local business, anyway. I go to a locally owned non-franchise coffee shop, myself.
Gee, I make my own coffee with cheap coffee I buy at the local grocery store. Any coffee is good after my years of getting US coffee in the US Army field. I do understand that simple peanut butter has lots of cache blusters–next thing will be
which soda crackers do you buy.
Mooser. And it’s still the same overly acidic, burnt stuff.
I couldn’t agree with you more. Hot acid water for 5 bucks a pop.
BDS is not as simple as it would seem.
Recently I was prescribed a medication for a skin irritation caused by poison ivy. My insurance paid $77, I paid $30, for the tube of creme manufactured by the Taro company.
According to Taro’s website, it was established in Israel by Israeli physicians who dedicate their efforts to the support of Israel. I resent having contributed not just my tax dollars but even my health care dollars to support Israel.
I don’t support Israel. By the way, that doesn’t make me a bad person; I’m an American, so are my children; I support the United States and will extend MY efforts to a renaissance that will reclaim the Enlightenment vision of the founders of the US Constitutional experiment.
Check the ingredients on the web and replace it. Israelis didn’t invent poison ivy cream. There have been home remedies (baking soda and water was used for eons) for centuries.
“Enlightenment vision of the founders of the US Constitutional experiment”
“Enlightenment vision”? I suppose you could say that if you were pushing for a system of slavery, indentured servitude, aristocratic privilege, no consumer protections and no labor solidarity. You could probably get away with it, too, and best of luck to you!
Mooser, to be fair there was a diverse range of opinion (and morality) among the founding fathers of the US. It would have been nice if, say, Benjamin Franklin was the sole author of American governance… but it begs the question as to how practical it would be to field a democracy on the authorship of a single man, no matter how intelligent, moral (where it counts…) and egalitarians. Because that in itself contradicts the notion of democracy.
The strength of democracy is that it’s (supposed to be) capable of rapid (on historical, political time scales) improvement. The problem is, the United States stagnated some time ago, and now were backsliding — because the mechanisms of democracy in our government have been attacked and subverted.
Well yes, Mooser, all you say punching holes in the “Enlightenment vision of the founders of the US Constitutional experiment” is true.
We all know that the founding fathers, and the early Presidents were slave holders,
and we all know how hard it was to found and push forwared the civil rights movement which took hold in the 1960s. The test of virtue is always power. Why don’t you tell us what historical state that ever existed you hold up as your standard
for appropriate ethics & morality of power? Anyone can piss on the USA flag, and with good informed reason. What flag would you uphold? What vision do you want us to see since you reject Psychopathic god’s?
There’s also TEVA which markets non-generic brand pharmaceuticals. That’s another one I avoid.
When it comes to electronics, I avoid Sandisk. They are an Israeli company that – as you may know – makes flash memory, USB memory sticks and music players.
Boycotting takes time and trouble. Every single item has to be checked for country of origin on the label. Here’s a cue: the bar code for Israeli-made goods begins with 7 290.
Nolan, are you in Israel or here? I thought from some of your other posts that you were overseas. Anyway, thanks for the heads-up on Sandisk. They are off my shopping list. Any others you know about?
Phil and Adam should start a link to BDS products. I went to the BDS site and christalmighty, they dont get to the point. I just want a plain list with a sales pitch. I’m already sold.
MRW,
Here’s a list of Israeli companies or companies that are part of Israeli conglomerates:
* United Technologies Corporation (heating and cooling systems)
* Comfortmaker (heating and cooling systems)
* Bryant (heating and cooling systems)
* Carrier (heating and cooling systems)
* Otis elevators
* BASF
* Equity One (real estate)
* M-Systems Flash Disk
Other companies like HP, Dell and Motorola make major contributions and investments.
Motorola, by the way, sells Israel the bomb fuses.
Other such companies include: Newscorp and all its subsidiaries like Harper Collins, New York Post, DirectTV, National Geographic, Wall Street Journal, Dow Jones, Photobucket and MySpace.
Then there’s Time Warner and all its subsidiaries, from CNN to Disney, Time Magazine, AOL and Time Warner broadband.
Hahaha – that’s a good one!
‘A one-man army moves faster than a million’ – famous Chinese saying.
Not really, I just made that up.
I’m into the sloganeering side of revolution.
But, your right that your labeling is not as bad as more violent approaches, including punitive oriented BDS, rather than reform oriented.
Hitler & Stalin ruled faster. FDR (like Wilson) had to go through the back door. Witty argues that the soda fountain “sit in” is a sin against jewish “continuity.”
Kind of sad, isn’t it? A significant number of Jews were involved in civil rights and anti-war protests many decades ago. I think we have our confirmation that Witty (assuming he’s old enough anyway) definitely was not one of them. I haven’t seen a form of protest yet that he doesn’t condemn.
thanks for sticking with this theme, Phil.
Here is a good label sticker for reproducing –
ISRAELI OCCUPATION
Knock yourself out
Pingback: Young Jews must lead the way or occupation will continue forever | Antony Loewenstein
As far as being “made a fool” there is a surefire way to avoid this, believe absolutely zero of what you are told – consider the source. If you have any belief that this current course by this government, or anyone who claims the same mantra of “change, hope” from this, toss it.
THEN THERE IS A GOD
The Obama administration reiterated emphatically on Wednesday that it viewed a complete freeze of construction in settlements on the West Bank as a critical step toward a peace accord between Israel and the Palestinians.
Speaking of President Obama, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said, “He wants to see a stop to settlements — not some settlements, not outposts, not ‘natural growth’ exceptions.” Talking to reporters after a meeting with the Egyptian foreign minister, Ahmed Aboul Gheit, she said: “That is our position. That is what we have communicated very clearly.”
link to nytimes.com
Yeah but it’s all talk and no action. Israel has shown, repeatedly, that they cannot be trusted to abide by previous agreements, let alone promises and this assumption that Israel’s violations of international law are somehow a “negotiation point” makes Obama a party to those crimes.
Obama’s lost his credibility to the rest of the world. He lost it rather definitely when it became known that he and his cadre leaned on the PA to get them to agree to have the Goldstone report buried. The United States, rather visibly, is not a neutral player. We do whatever Israel wants us to.
I’m curious to find out what happened that made such a stark 180 turn.
“Today’s news from Jerusalem fills me with sadness and rage, and a sharp edge, too, that I don’t want to be made a fool. ”
What exactly do you mean when you say “I don’t want to be made a fool”?
Do you mean that you don’t want to be lied to objectively?, or that you don’t want to appear to be a fool to your friends?
If that is the case, then I would hope that you become more courageous. I feared that you had pressures to conform, as I stated when you were reporting from Gaza.
Again, in thinking clearly and freely, you might conclude similarly to currently, or you might change your views.
I sincerely wish that you read the Sacher book “A History of Israel”. In your posts, I don’t discern a respect (or respectful criticism) of the effort and struggle that the Israeli people went through in the course of becoming a viable state.
If you haven’t in fact read thoroughly of the history, I suspect that it gives the you the cover of deniability (ignorance) to be so cavalier about the single-state, relative to Zionism.
One of the reasons that some more hardened Zionists comment about you in somewhat derogatory terms, is that they don’t get the sense that you understand the long struggle of Zionism, acknowledged in your posting.
If you had read thoroughly, your comments would likely have a different tone, but also carry more credible weight.
Many of your posse, clearly have not read thoroughly on the history, and are worse than dismissed outside of their safe conforming shelter.
Poor Israelis, such effort and struggle they went through to drive people from their homes and murder them when they tried to come back! Poor pitiful things!
America, stop sucking up to Israel
By Gideon Levy
link to haaretz.com
“In your posts, I don’t discern a respect (or respectful criticism) of the effort and struggle that the Israeli people went through in the course of becoming a viable state.”
“…they don’t get the sense that you understand the long struggle of Zionism, acknowledged in your posting.”
i am sure you say this about every person who disagrees with you and is jewish…
“”"gideon levy, i don’t get the sense that you understand the long struggle of zionism acknowledged in your writing… “” etc. etc..
they are all self hating jews, no doubt….
“I don’t discern a respect (or respectful criticism) of the effort and struggle that the Israeli people went through in the course of becoming a viable state.”
Substitute “German” for “Israeli,” Witty, and see if your “objectivity” holds out, huh? Do you respect the ethnic cleansing of three quarters of a million people? Ooooh…. I forgot. Your a Nakba denier — Israel can do no wrong because Jewish people are apparently guiltless to you as long as their “real” Zionist Jews.
Speaking from the out of work former finance industry accomplice who reads exclusively from the fathers and sons of Zionism, incidentally? You casting aspersions on anyone else’s credibility is laughable, Witty.
Read the book guys. You’re smart enough to make it through it without being brainwashed.
It is by no means a whitewash. A very well-written, informative history.
Howard Sachar – A History of Israel
Politically, ethically, it is NECESSARY to at least attempt to be informed, and not only from perspectives that repeat your prejudice.
Even if it irritates you.
I read Segev, Pappe, Khalidi, Hourani, Finkelstein, and they irritated me in ways, but I read nevertheless.
In fairness, Richard, you have a lot of time on your hands.
Witty? If the book doesn’t talk about davitkas and massacres and the bulldozing of villages that had been inhabited for generations? It isn’t just a white-wash, it’s propaganda of the worst sort.
REad, Find out.
Thanks but I hadn’t even quite finished Ilan Pappe’s book when the newest Amnesty International and HRW reports came out and ongoing atrocities take precedence on my reading schedule for obvious reasons. And I still need to get to the Benny Morris material after that. I’ll consider putting it on my list, though.
It looks like Netanyahu pimp-slapped Obama administration and has finally brought them into line. This has to be a huge embarrassment for BO & Clinton to have do a very public about face after explicitly calling for and end to the construction of new settlements.
Meanwhile here’s a video of America’s #1 leftist windbag, Noam Chomsky, doing what he does best: blowing smoke and throwing sand into the eyes of idealistic young lefties. As usual, Chomsky makes Israel out to be the puppet of the US. American backing of Israel is the problem but of course no mention of Zionist Lobby is made, nor is there any hint that US support of Israel might be detrimental to American interests.
Enjoy!
Chomsky: Palestine and the Region in the Obama era:
The Emerging Framework.
Queue, I can appreciate what you posted in regard to Noam, even though I still respect him he has a tendency to throw water on this issue. This is why I opted for a dual effort in regard to this issue, and have chosen to show it as a confluence of interests. I think Chomsky is depressed about the issue, and that has a tendency to block thought from viable alternatives. So I have not dropped the ball on either the side of the USA or Israel, and think they can be addressed by in tandem for maximum effect – apparently that was to much to think of for Chomsky…lol However, more power to him for everything he has done to expose and resist.
Petras exposes Chomsky as yet another tribal apologist and obfuscator:
Noam Chomsky and the pro-Israel lobby: Fourteen erroneous theses
link to petras.lahaine.org
It is now that Obama brings us the real “teachable moment.” POTUS, the most powerful individual in the world, is defeated by an even more powerful tribe. What’s the takeaway? We can continue to be defeated individuals. We can even continue to delude ourselves into thinking that we don’t suffer our own defeat, that the only losers are the faraway Palestinians. Or we gentiles can start to think like a tribe to defend ourselves against a tribe.
Chaos4700, you say, Do you respect the ethnic cleansing of three quarters of a million people?
You must mean all the Jews forced from the Arab countries.
Ooops thats a topic Chaos4700 doesn’t like to talk about.
‘You must mean all the Jews forced from the Arab countries.”
No becasue it never happened. The Jews in thoser Arab countries sold up and moved to Israel. Admittedly, because the environment in Arab countries after Isral’s ethnic cleasing of the Palestinians, was hostile, but they weren’t foreced to leave.
Of course, it was hostile to Jews in Arab countries in large part because of Zionist terror campaigns against Jews and non-Jews alike, which included things such as the Lavon affair all the way up to the bombings of synagogues.
Like I keep saying, the biggest threat Jews have, post-WW2, are Zionists.
The Palestinians aren’t free? Everytime the Israelis have come to the table and given them what they wanted they’ve been paid back with bullets. The same guns and ammo given to the Palestinian cops were turned on the Israelis after Oslo. The Israelis removed people from their homes in Gaza. They were greeted with missiles. The Israelis removed checkpoints. They were greeted with suicide bombers.
“Everytime the Israelis have come to the table and given them what they wanted they’ve been paid back with bullets.”
That would be because:
a) The Israelis were not giving them whwta they wanted on what they were legally entitled to, but what Israel were prepared to given them, which was akin to dividing a block of seiss sheese and giving the Palestinians the holes.
b) When the Israelis withdrew from Gaza, they fiored 7,700 shells at Gaza in lessthan 12 months. That’s the same number as all the rockets Hamas have fired in 8 years.
c) The Israelis have not removed amy checkpoints.
Here’s how the 2 state solution can work.
The Jews keep their state, and the Arabs give up 21 of their 22 states,
leaving them with one state, and then we would have a two-state SOLUTION!
Israel uber alles, huh?
How long can Nolan, V, Citizen, Chaos4700, DanKelly and potsherd be silent on the genocidal aims of the Arabs.
Then think, this is who these radicals want Israel to have a 1 state solution with.
Thank Goodness the Israelis dont think you like you people.
link to rightsidenews.com
Hamas Cleric Calls for Extermination of Jews
Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook
April 21, 2009
A Hamas cleric who once participated in an international conference of “Imams and Rabbis for Peace” — whose delegates vowed to “condemn any negative representation” of each other’s religions — has wholeheartedly espoused Hamas’s racist ideology in a recent Friday sermon on Hamas TV.
Ironically, this latest profession of Hamas’s genocidal racism was preached and broadcast at the start of the month in which the UN is meeting in the “Durban II” conference in Geneva to condemn Israel as being “racist.”
According to the Hamas interpretation of Islam, the Jews are inherently evil, seek to rule the world, and are a threat to Muslims and all of humanity. Therefore they are destined to extermination. In the words of Hamas religious leader Ziad Abu Alhaj, “Hatred for Muhammad and Islam is in their [Jews'] souls, they are naturally disposed to it…”
He asserts that because of the Jews’ inherent evil, the Jewish state, “Israel … is a cancer that wants to rule the world.” One can find the details of the Jews’ plan in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which he jokingly refers to as “The Protocols of the Imbeciles of Zion” (a play on words in Arabic). He concludes that the Jews are destined to be annihilated:
“The time will come, by Allah’s will, when their property will be destroyed and their children will be exterminated, and no Jew or Zionist will be left on the face of this earth.”
[Hamas (Al-Aqsa) TV, April 3, 2009]
He also claims that the Jews wanted to murder Muhammad.
“How long can Nolan, V, Citizen, Chaos4700, DanKelly and potsherd be silent on the genocidal aims of the Arabs.”
So if we were to quote a statement from an Israeli rabb, calling for the extermination of the Palestinians, or Lieberman’s call for nuking the Palestinians, that too woudl represent the genocidal aims of the Jews?
The same way we can be silent about yetis, Iraqi nukes and the threat that African American men are going to deflower our daughters and force themselves on our wives and mothers, Nomi. They’re all threats that don’t actually exist.
Come back when you can quote a site that isn’t overtly racist and lying.
I dont know how much longer leftist Jews can be silent.
www.aish.com/jw/me/48893452.html
A thirst for violence is being drilled into Palestinian children. How should Jewish parents respond?
“How should Jewish parents respond? ”
As opposed to thw way they have responded in the past you mean?
link to images.google.com.au
LOL! The site you linked to has a “Shopping” link next to the “Donate” one?! Seriously?