I can hear the US consulate protest from here. Imagine if the same happened in Tehran. JPost:
The Justice Ministry declared Sunday that no indictments will be filed against police in the case of [Tristan Anderson] a US activist who was hit by a tear gas canister and left comatose during a violent demonstration in the West Bank last year.
They have released all the suspects arrested in the mosque arson, too. And pardoned most of the rioters from the evacuation of the Gaza settlements.
In short, Jews have legal impunity from any crime in Israel, unless they are leftist protesters, in which case they are dishonorary Arabs, who can be arrested, detained, beat up and killed at a whim.
most of the rioters in the gaza pull out where under 18 at the time of the pull out, and were arrested for crimes of minor civil disobedience – i.e. causing a headache. they were all removed in the end without too much trouble. no rocks, no assaults, no bombs, nothing but a bunch of chanting kids sitting on the ground and screaming a bunch.
as far as the mosque arson, they are being released to house arrest while the investigation is pending because their remand was already extended 3 times!
to act as if nothing is being done to them is dishonest.
“Sukkot and Gelberd were released without charges, but ordered to remain under house arrest for 60 days pending results of the investigation against them.
The court had extended their remand three times prior to their release on Sunday”
they aren’t free to go where they want… even if that’s what you wanna believe… dishonest!
most of the rioters in the gaza pull out where under 18 at the time of the pull out, and were arrested for crimes of minor civil disobedience – i.e. causing a headache. they were all removed in the end without too much trouble. no rocks, no assaults, no bombs, nothing but a bunch of chanting kids sitting on the ground and screaming a bunch.
Except all the acid they poured at Israeli soldiers. Oh those peaceful colonists.
Are you the designated troll from Arutz Sheva here today?
“Except all the acid they poured at Israeli soldiers”
source that shows any of the pardoned were acid throwers
please?
i was reading in hebrew, the ones pardoned were pardoned for minor offences.
they weren’t all pardoned.
so. source?
And we were told by the Israeli Army that one of the protestors actually threw acid in the face of one of the soldiers – they showed us that soldier, actually, and he had both his eyes bandaged up – so things could have been getting a little bit nasty today, but they’ve cooled down for now.
ABC News Australia
I’m sure I can find plenty more in 5 minutes of Googling.
link to abc.net.au
Settlers burn army equipment.
They sound like nice guys:
link to ynet.co.il
That would easily pass for terrorism under the purview of “destruction of state property”.
excuse me
i asked you to provide me with a link
that any of the released did this
and you come back with this link?
come on i’m not dumb
Only if they were Arabs.
Show me a link that shows that those who threw acid are still in custody!
dude!
you said acid throwers were released, not me
i can’t believe i am playing this game with you.
but heres the english article
link to haaretz.com
“The legislation will formally pardon about 400 of 482 people against whom minor criminal charges were filed – mainly teenage boys and girls. Most of those convicted have already completed their sentences
“It does not pardon those accused of crimes that endangered human life, and involved use of explosives or serious violence, or those who had a previous criminal record. “
SOURCES are a must especially when you are spewing BS opinions like yours
link to haaretz.com
link to haaretz.com
HEY DORK, YOU ASKED FOR SOURCES!
BUMP, where is the Zio?
you are turning into quite a child Avi, is this your token argument? You don’t drink the Mondolies Kool-aid so you must be a hired troll?
yonira! I thought you’d show up here about now, with a new Zionist troll coming around for you to fawn on and ass-kiss.
So predictable.
hey look, i figured out yonira’s strategy
yonira – being completely ignorant about the I-P conflict – will not comment on the subject matter himself.
he will wait until someone else says something that he agrees with ideologically, and jump in to ‘assist’ superficially (that’s the extent of his intellectual heroism)
You just hit on the reason I always think he is a she. Thanks.
Exactly, he joins in like a screeching harpie.
Oh, how brutal! Their remand was extended 3 times! And if you think the police are going to stop them from leaving home to conduct more terrorism, it only proves the Zioncaine poisoning has rotted your brain cells.
Jewish terrorists get to roam around free under the smokescreen of “house arrest” while Arabs who are arrested for nonviolent demonstration against illegal land confiscation are locked away for months as “security prisoners.”
you make these statements
and provide no sources
until you do, i smell BS
you got called out.. release and house arrest are two very different things, no?
If you’re going to go on a source diet, at least back up your lies with SOURCES.
The onus is on you, genius.
Not for Jews in Israel.
Soon, quietly, the charges will be dropped and the terrorists will go on to become IDF generals or hatemongering rabbis.
as far as the mosque arson, they are being released to house arrest while the investigation is pending because their remand was already extended 3 times!
to act as if nothing is being done to them is dishonest.
You seem incapable of comprehending a simple phrase such as “equal treatment before the law”.
When was the last time any Palestinian was released and put under house arrest for arson?
He would have been charged with terrorism and sent to the gulag to spend the rest of his natural life behind bars.
And I’m not even talking about Palestinians who are NOT citizens of Israel. I’m talking about Palestinians who are citizens of Israel and make up 20% of the state’s population.
Back in 2000, 13 Palestinian citizens of Israel were beaten, shot and killed for protesting Israel’s oppressive policies.
Meanwhile, schmucks like you go and burn a mosque and they’re sent home.
You want dishonest, try this on for size: See what happens when a Palestinian burns a synagogue in Tel-Aviv. He’d be shot on sight and the shooter would face no repercussions.
That’s a hogwash of an attempt on your part. At least you tried your best. Next!
palestinains aren’t tried by israeli courts
they are tried in military court
israeli arabs are and yes, they do get house arrest as well. do you read hebrew? prison is expensive.
hosue arrest is common in israel while investigations are pending
prison is expensive and israel isn’t that rich
link to ynet.co.il
the issue is you make sweeping claims
and obviously don’t speak enough hebrew to verify them
When Palestinians are tried at all, they are tried in military courts where their rights are drastically limited. How often do Palestinians get released to house arrest?
House arrest is common in Israel because the authorities are afraid to lock up Jews, which is why Israel is overrun with criminal mafiosi whom the police never seem to be able to touch.
“House arrest is common in Israel because the authorities are afraid to lock up Jews”
excuse me?? source? this is why teitel was just arrested?
“which is why Israel is overrun with criminal mafiosi whom the police never seem to be able to touch”
nonsense.
you can say anything you want about israel
“israel is this and that” without knowing how to speak the language, and without a source
the issue is you make sweeping claims
and obviously don’t speak enough hebrew to verify them
Hey, numbnuts, I speak and read Hebrew. And unlike your tortured English, I can handle both just fine.
But, more to the point, why don’t you go educate yourself with the Or Commission Report.
Then come back and lecture us about “sweeping claims”.
The earth is flat.
Source?
The earth is round.
Source?
The earth orbits around the sun.
Source?
Gravity kills.
Source?
הגיע הזמן שתעוף מכאן.
hosue arrest is common in israel while investigations are pending
prison is expensive and israel isn’t that rich
That’s a solid argument as any.
אתה ממש יכול לקרא עברית ואתה עדיין מסוגל לאומר שמתנחלים שזרקו חומצה שוחררו??
אתה לא יכול לקרוא עיתונים?
לא משנה אם אתה תומך במתנחלים. לאומר את זה, זה לשקר
ברור. רק צריך לקרוא לראות את זה
המידע הוא בעברית ואנגלית
זה אמת או אתה עוד ג ‘וקר עם גווגל טראנסלאית?
Your Hebrew is actually a tad bit worse than your English. That’s interesting.
Teitel ran free for years while the authorities ignored his activities, this is hardly a good example for you to cite.
If he’d confined his activities to blowing up Arabs, he’d probably still be free, but he made the mistake of sending a bomb to a Jew, even if he was a Messianic Jew.
lol, I agree. I am glad that we can agree on that Avi!
אני עובד
אני חייב לרוץ פה
אולי אתה יכול להתמודד עם מה שאמרתי
במקום לעשות צחוק מהאנגלית שלי
Hey smndoerksen, if the basic point here is lack of accountability then let’s just look at various Yesh Din reports.
Israeli crooks get out of jail very quick when their crimes involve Palestinians.
my basic point is all the bs here
acid throwers being released is one example
this isn’t a place where people discuss israels shortcomings to improve the situation
this is a bashing arena for people who hate israel ideologically
mafiosos overrunning israel because jews don’t go to prison is another example…
the claim that house arrest is a smokescreen to protect jews is another..
Really, and what is the ideology?
In fact, I have yet to ever see a book, blog, article, WHATEVER, written by an anti-Zionist that wasn’t subjected to at least one accusation of ‘anti-Israelism’ (hey, there’s an ideology!).
The title of this blog is appropriate. A War of Ideas.
Did you expect us to be nice to one another, given the subject-matter?
And if you step outside yourself for one moment, go over to pro-Israel blogs and to YNet/Haaretz talkbacks and judge the kind of things said there against what the regulars here say.
There is no comparison. We are much more polite and compassionate.
I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve tried to be nice to yonira or WJ. I’ve tried to be civil with Witty and just civil in general. This conflict polarizes people and you can’t help but get emotional.
But put things in perspective.
The reason you don’t like it here is because it’s an anti-Zionist blog. It’s not ‘ideological’ in any exceptional sense. It’s no more ‘ideological’ than a blog that frames things from the Zionist perspective.
If there is a middle ground, it exists after we go back and forth.
Or you can sit there and whine.
שיהיה לך יום טוב מצטער על התגובה שלך על אנגלית
this place is where people who hate israel dig through it’s dirty laundry.
thank you for the clarification
to avi
או קי עכשיו העבודה גמרה
אולי עכשיו התגובות שלי יהיו מספיק טובות
אתה נמצא כאן כדי להשפיל את ישראל ויש כאן אנשים שמסכימים איתך
בסדר
אבל אל תשפיל אותי
גורם לך להיראות טיפש. יותר מאנגלית גרועה
There’s no need to dig. It’s everywhere.
No one has to like Israel. Israel is a State. A political entity.
Israel is not a benign power. Zionism is not just an ‘idea’.
Zionists often frame dissenters as being ‘anti-Israel’ (whatever-the-fudge-that-means) or ‘against’ the right of ‘Jews’ (who?) to self-determination.
Well, again, Zionism is not just an idea.
You couldn’t have a Jewish State in a region that was mostly Arab. Hence, the conflict, hence the interest for all sorts of intellectual reasons.
Deal with it chump. You don’t live in Luxembourg. You live in Israel, a colonial settler-State. Still stealing and colonizing land in the 21st century.
you are right about that SMN. The commentators feel very threaten by anything but hatred for Israel. It’s really quite comical. Facts need not apply, if you have anything to say which doesn’t explicitly illustrate your hatred for anything Israel you will be labeled a troll and be accused of being paid by Israel for your services.
Once they start calling you a Nazi and accuse you of killing babies, you know you’ve gotten on their nerves!
And you live in America, Cliff, also both a colonial and settler-State. Both won their independence by fighting a war. This is much more than you can say for ANY Arab country surrounding Israel. I would argue Israel is the only State which isn’t the outcome of some lines drawn by Western colonial powers.
You’ve called people here Nazis. And you’ve accused me once of wanting to kill every Jew or wanting another Holocaust. yonira, it’s not just this issue, I’m sure if we were talking about video games or sports, I’d end up calling you a douchebag.
Your douchebaggery transcends the I-P conflict.
By that definition, if a bigger more powerful fish came along, and kicked all the Zionists out of I-P, would you complain?
Could I then use your argument against you?
The difference between then an now is kind of obvious, don’t you think?
We don’t live in the same time period. There is television, internet. Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Human rights groups. Solidarity groups.
Equality, etc.
Your argument just sucks.
It’s as compelling as that analogy you made about Holocaust reparations going to offspring of Holocaust survivors. You basically implied it was the same as Palestinian refugees born after their families were ethnically cleansed.
Except, Palestinians are born into that tragedy. Last time I checked, the Holocaust is over.
Similarly, we don’t live in the dark 1400s or 1500s or 1600s or blah blah blah.
The social consciousness has changed.
Oh wait, actually nvm – you’re right yonira.
Let’s revert back to slavery since, you know, it existed back then.
No one living in a country that had slavery at one point, can fault us. Want to go catch some slaves? Trust me, with your stellar defense, no one will stand in our way.
You deny that the Israeli criminal mafia is running free all over Israel, with the police seemingly powerless to do anything about it?
You’re kind of butt-ignorant, aren’t you?
HEY DORK, YOU WANT SOURCES?
link to articles.latimes.com
Israel is the consquence of Western colonial powers giving away Palestine’s land.
potsherd
You deny that the Israeli criminal mafia is running free all over Israel, with the police seemingly powerless to do anything about it?
You’re kind of butt-ignorant, aren’t you?
you are completely insane. this is what it means to be blinded by hate.
the claim regarding the mafia was that it was running loose because the israeli police don’t want to arrest jews.
kapish? scroll up and read.
this is insane. this isn’t a discussion, this isn’t a debate. this is you deriving some sort of strange emotional fixation from traumatic conflict.
it’s an opportunity to behave as a mob with anyone who disagrees with you.
fuck you guys, you are insane.
one last note.
“You couldn’t have a Jewish State in a region that was mostly Arab. Hence, the conflict, hence the interest for all sorts of intellectual reasons.”
israels jewish population is itself roughly half descendant from arab countries. they left behind am arab world with an atrocious minority rights record. from history and from today.
for the most part they live in israel. and for the most part they have no intention of leaving. the arabs will have to deal with making peace with israel, because such a massive segment of israel is from the middle east. israel is the middle east. not europe. and the arabs have to deal with its existence.
fuck you guys.
I think I am with SMN, fuck you guys, your hatred is fucking disgusting. This is why the Palestinians don’t have shit and will never have shit, you guys are obsessed with hatred more than you are for the well-being of Palestinians.
Its funny how you guys just fucking feed off each other, SMN has been here one day and you guys drive him off, you drive anyone off who doesn’t buy into your made up fantasy of whats going on in the Middle East.
The more publicity this blog gets the more people are going to know exactly how rabid you people are.
Cliff, maybe you can follow in the footsteps of the great Max Blumenthal and have your daddy buy you a 1000$ plane ticket so you can go to Egypt and join the vermin on one of these Gaza misery tours. See what its like being brainwashed by a terrorist organization, you are 3/4 of the way there already.
What is your SOURCE for the absurd claim that posters here are completely insane?
Isn’t it rather obvious that if known Jewish criminals are running free all over Israel, attacking each other with firebombs and rockets, the police aren’t doing a whole lot to arrest them? Or to keep them in jail once arrested?
Imagine what would happen if a gang of Arabs set off rockets in the middle of Tel Aviv and killed a bunch of Jews. Would they still be running free, shooting up the place, months later?
But the Israeli police have always given a low priority to Jewish criminals, more or less ignoring their behavior and letting them get away with, literally, murder as well as other crimes, like drugs and prostitution.
You know what’s really insane – anyone who would want to live in such a fucked up country, where the cops ignore the organized crime and let religious fanatics get away with throwing shit on them.
yonira will miss you, Dork, until the next sacrificial Zionist sheep comes along.
yonira, you always suck up to ANY hapless Zionist troll who appears on this site. They love you and leave you, every time.
Israel throws its shitty laundry in the face of the world and then demands that they pay the cleaning bill. No need to dig.
can it – what you have here is mob behavior. You aren’t interested in debating shit –
“Isn’t it rather obvious that if known Jewish criminals are running free all over Israel, attacking each other with firebombs and rockets, the police aren’t doing a whole lot to arrest them? Or to keep them in jail once arrested?”
such is the nature of organized crime. the top people are known, but tough to indict, guess what – arabs have organized crime rings too
and they are tough to crack. this is true in canada, america, israel.. all over..
that’s hardly the point. there is no reasoning with you. you are rude, degrading, and most of all stupid. suck on my balls.
i’m gonna remind you once more asshole – the jews of the middle east are heavily invested in israel.. so what.. the arabs chased them from countries they’ve lived in for 2000 years to build a new life in israel and now you want to rob them of that as well?
you don’t address anything is say.. just shout overtop HEY DORK
like grade fucking three
glad you have something to give purpose to your life
even if it’s a stupid as this
choke on my dick
Ah, Dork, I thought you fucked off yesterday. Just can’t stay away, huh?
You show up here with delusions of superiority, right out of the chute declaring the posts here “dishonest”. Now you’re offended when people point out your bullshit and hand you the sources that you demand – I don’t fault you for not noticing them because the software on this site sucks, but because of this is has become customary in a post to address it to whom you are replying.
Now you’ve gone off onto a new tangent about the Jews invested in Israel, totally irrelevant. Nobody gives a shit.
Let’s recapitulate the actual issue here. It is justice. Specifically, the lack of justice in Israel and the territories. The fact that there is one method for dealing with Jewish settlers and military and another for dealing with Palestinians and their supporters, such as Tristan Anderson. The fact that settlers and the Israeli military are almost never held accountable for their crimes but Palestinians are subject to arbitrary imprisonment without trial.
This is the issue. If you wipe the froth off your face (or is that cum?) you might be able to see it and address it in a rational manner. I won’t hold my breath, however.
blah blah blah
you talk that way now
i bet when you are talking face to face it is very difference. i am sure you open your mouth like this in public.
please.
organized crime in israel isn’t because the police don’t want to arrest jews.
house arrest isn’t a smoke screen, and yes arabs can get house arrest in israel as well
“Now you’ve gone off onto a new tangent about the Jews invested in Israel, totally irrelevant. Nobody gives a shit.”
right. you have your cause, and that’s what you care about. the conditions of the people living in israel is irrelevant. whether or not they get sucked into another dysfunctional arab blood bath like the one in iraq or the one in lebanon is irrelevant to you.
which is what makes this scavenging on the dysfunction of the middle east, and not productive debate.
nothing productive is happening here
it’s an excuse for you to talk tough behind a keyboard.
Then ‘fuck off to Europe’ if you don’t want an ‘Arab bloodbath’.
Racist douche.
A Zionist talking about toughness?
Don’t you have some more Palestinian kids to kill? Some more grandmothers to harass?
You’re a coward and a thief.
Not surprised you’d make this statement:
Peace out tough guy!
Weren’t they recently bugging Germany for more reparations?
yes, indeed, I’m sure that when you employ sweet reason to convince your own interlocutors in debate, you invite them to “suck on your balls” and “choke on your puny dick.”
As for “the condition of the people living in Israel” I suspect it would be greatly improved if they lived under a rule of law instead of a police state, where criminals were made to suffer the consequences of their actions instead of being let off because they are politically connected, members of the armed forces, or members of some religious cult. I suspect that the people living in Israel would be better off if the police were busy arresting criminals instead of being deployed in the thousands to protect politicians aginst the consequences of their provocative racist acts.
Since you like sources, here is one that shines a light on the rule of law in Israel, an issue that ought to matter to the people living there: link to haaretz.com
Maybe if you put your gonads back into your pants and stopped spraying them around, you could consider these matters instead of working yourself into a froth trying to defend the indefensible.
LOL
So smndoerksen – run already, will you?
As for making fun of your English – and hebrew – it’s all in a day’s work.
Besides, in either language the logic is tortured – such of it that exists. Since your own ‘reasoning” skills leave something to be desired, Avi properly called you to rely on someone’s else’s source. fair enough. maybe you didn’t sign up to this much work though, did you?
In the meantime, could you perhaps explain to the rest of us what “house arrest” exactly consists of?
When in doubt, “blah blah blah”, right Zio? Too bad the truth is anti-Zionist, scumbag.
“As for making fun of your English – and hebrew – it’s all in a day’s work.”
i’m glad you engage yourself in such productive “work”
did you go to university for that one?
Cliff
you say fuck off to europe
i’m sure the million and some jews of iraq will be eager to “return” to britain, you racist asshole
or iraq
they can go back and get bombed out of existence just like the assyrians.
the arabs destroye 2000 year old jewish communities in iraq, egypt yemen libya algeria.. they know it.. and israel is the price they will pay for it.
rule of law is an issue
israel isn’t syria, there is a court, and a newspaper to report on the corruption of the government
and there are tensions between the different branches of government
but that’s irrelevant
you aren’t interested in improving israels legal system, combating organized crime, or discussing the merits/cons of house arrest. you aren’t interested in finding a solution to the complex dysfunctions of the middle east.
israel is here to stay
mostly because of the arabs that drove all the jews of the middle east to israel.
they are never leaving. you won’t make them “go back to europe”
link to criminal.co.il
full house arrest – only not in prison!
alternative detention is an alternative to imprisonment until criminal proceedings are completed
it is an alternative to holding someone in remand which costs hundreds of dollars a day
Hey moron!
I put both ‘go back to Europe’ and ‘Arab bloodbath’ in quotations to point out YOUR racism.
Oh? Who are ‘the Arabs’? Tell us how ‘the Arabs’ destroyed the Jewish communities in those countries.
The Palestinians were the ones who suffered. They were Arabs, but they weren’t ‘the Arabs’.
You are such a moron.
So are the Palestinians. A big fuck-you to Zionism.
of course the palestinains will stay
who are the arabs?
the arab nationalist camp that was spearheading the anti-zionist movement
nationalistic and religious leaders in yemen iraq egypt and libya (among others) completely destroyed the jewish communities of those countries.
the arabs who rampaged around baghdad during the farhud and things like that, that took place prior to israels creation
they had nowhere to go but israel
they weren’t gonna stay in iraq
just like the minorities of iraq are fleeing today again
The Palestinians were the ones who suffered
and the jewish communities who were destroyed, despite existing in those lands since before mohammed rose are what?
nothing to you?
Gee wizz! What a nifty idea! A great alternative for Israel to keeping locked up all the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians that it drags out of their houses at night, with or without charges? Think of all the money it would save!
yes ending the occupation would be an economic boost
assuming things do not return to the post oslo period
that would be worse
when the busses became a killing arena
remember?
before the wall?
israel does. don’t expect them to forget
What do the Palestinians have to do with any of that? The Palestinians didn’t force anyone to leave their homes, much less Jews from any country.
Prior to Zionisms entry into Palestine, Jews in Arab countries lived relatively well with their Muslim and Christian neighbors in most countries in the Middle East, which is in sharp contrast to the condition Jews were forced to endure in Europe during the same period of time.
Furthermore, your making the racist assumption that all Jews of Middle Eastern origin in Israel are refugees, a term that many Mizrahi resent as it implies that they were never committed Zionists in the way that the Ashkenazi were.
In any case, many Mizrahi were coerced into leaving due to political or economic pressure, some were coerced into leaving forcifully, while many others also decided to immigrate to Israel of their own free will.
This is contrast to the Palestinians who had no choice in the matter, who were forced to leave their homes because they were deemed to be a demographic threat to the new Israeli state built upon the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people.
The Palestinians didn’t destroy those communities, you psycho!
And please, cite some sources. Give us more than a few lines. You’re a shitty troll. You can do better, believe in yourself!
so? israel was the only place those jews had to go. what did you want them to do?
vanish? had the arabs not rampaged around destroying ancient jewish communities israel never would have held. of course their rampages always have bad impacts but that doesn’t stop it
in lebanon, or iraq.. or yemen
as far as source, heres one.
link to lebanese-forces.org
ben zakai is an iraqi jew
his views are fairly average
translate it
and another one
link to youtube.com
interviews with survivors
القدس “المحتلة” هههه حلوة.
يروشلايم عاصمة يسرائيل غصب عن عين هادول من الإسلام والعرب. إحنا بعد ما شوفنا القتل والسجن والعذاب والتنكيل ونهب آموالنا وممتلكاتنا وآراضينا وتجاراتنا وإسقاط جنسياتنا،وفصل آلاف اليهود من مهناتهم والخدمة المدنية والحكومية، عندما فرهدوا باليهود في شوارع بغداد وشتى آنحاء العراق بسنة 1941، وإغتصبوا البنات والنساء قدام عائلاتهم، وقطعوا صدورهم وشقوا بطون الحوامل وطلعوا الجنين من آحشاء إمو وإرهاب اليهود بتهمة “جريمة الصهيونية” والتنصت على مكالماتهم وأخرتها قطعوا كل خطوط تلفون اليهود، وشنق كبار التجار اليهود. بعد كل هاي الفظاعات وصمت كل المفكرين والسياسيين والناشطين والقوميين العراقيين والعرب عامة، عندما إنقلب الكثير من المسلمين على جيرانهم اليهود بعد عشرة السنين، والذين وقفوا ودافعوا عن اليهود ورفضوا كراهية الغوغاء، كانوا موجدين، ما حد يقدر يقول ماكو كان في مواطنيين شرفاء يخافون الله، ولكنهم ما كانوا إلا قلة. للأسف إنجرف الكثير من العراقيين نحو قومية عربية ضيقة الفكر والرؤية لا تقبل بوجود الآخر. عندها وصل اليهود العراقيين، بعد وجود دام آكثر من آلفين عام في آرض بابل، إلي قناعة بأنوا ماكو إلنا مستقبل بهالبلد إللي كانت وطن إلنا. أهل أبوي وإمي طلعوا بعد ما فقدوا عشرات من الأهل في حملة الذبح بالفرهود. لما راحوا للشرطة وملابسهم مقطعة وملطخة بالدم قالولهم “أش تريدون؟؟ يلعن دينكم روحوا، إرجعوا بلدكم (يعني فلسطين ) يا نجسين يا أولاد القحاب قبل ما نساوي فيكم غير شغلات” ” وفعلا راحوا عايسرائيل بجنطة واحدة. في المطار أخدو كل ذهب ستي وسفر التوراة مال معبدهم (جدي كان حاخام ببغداد) ومزقوا صورهم العائلية وقالولهم لازم تمضوا علي وثائق تسمح للحكومة العراقية بتأميم كل أموالهم ومدخراتهم بالبنك ويللا روحوا بلا رجعة
راحوا ليسرائيل وفي ايدهم أقل من عشرين دولار. سكتوا وبلعوا ألمهم ومهانتهم وما آخدوا غير ذكرياتهم. عاشوا في المعبروت (مخيمات اللاجئين ) في وصت الصحراء مع ثلاث عوائل بخيمة. أبو أبوي مات بعد ستة شهور بنوبة قلبية من الصدمة بعد ما فقد كل إشي وترك ستي آرملة تربي ٩ أطفال لحالها. الجالية اليهودية البغدادية إتشتت مثل باقي الجاليات اليهودية الشرقية. أهل إتفرقوا من آولادهم، آخوان من آخواتهم، منهم ما قدروا يتركوا العراق أو خافوا يبدو حياة من أول جديد. منهم أعتقلوا علي أيدي المخابرات السرية ومصيرهم مجهول إلى هذا اليوم مثل آخو ستي، كان اسموا حسقيل مرزوق بن صيون، وسخرية الحياة آنو كان قومي عراقي، بس في الأخر كان يهودي إبن يهودية. باقي العائلة كانت تقليدية وبعيدة عن السياسية. هيك كان حالنا. العراق اليوم آسواء بكثير والشعب متآلم كثير والفظاعات بتنعاد كل يوم في أرض دجلة والفرات. بعد كل المحن الاجتماعية والاقتصادية الشافوها آهلي في يسرائيل، صارت بيتهم ووطنهم الجديد، بكل آخطاءها و تقصيراتها ومضوا بالحياة. آني اتولدتوا بيسرائيل وكبرتوا و اتربيتوا فيها بس آتمنى يوم آشوفه لبغداد، مطرح ما عاشوا آجدادي وماتوا وانقبروا. بس آعرف آنو هاد حلم غير واقعي. شخصيا أني بفتكر آنو الإعتراف بخساراتنا وتهجيرنا آهم من آي مصاري آو تعويضات. بس هال قرار مو إلي، مشان مو عشتوا هال التجربة المريرة.
And the Palestinians aren’t going to forget that the land now called Israel was once where they had their homes, and how they were killed and driven out.
But Israelis have always expected that they would forget, slink quietly away, acknowledging the superior rights of Jews.
“The Palestinians didn’t destroy those communities, you psycho!”
but they launched a war to destroy israel
and that is what the communities were destroyed.
the arabs, the arab nationalist movements which dominated the middele east at the time tried to purge their nations of jews, then they tried to run the jews out of the last place they held.
israel.
not gonna happen :D
war is brutal and disgusting
“But Israelis have always expected that they would forget, slink quietly away, acknowledging the superior rights of Jews.”
no i don’t expect them to forget
but to remember that on the other side there are people
who suffered the same fate but dealt with it differently
who are in israel because they had no other choice
and who won’t leave what they’ve built now
i want the arabs to stop acting righteous
What do you mean ‘so’? Why do the Palestinians have to pay?
And are you saying the Jewish exodus from the Arab countries happened before and was the pretext for the creation of Israel?
That’s bullshit on so many levels. And you cited a forum. Cite some scholarly sources that back up your gross generalizations.
when the pretense that the arab world was always wonderful to it’s minorities is dropped it will eb a great day
when arabs start dealign with the copts, and the christians of iraq.. it will be a great day
it will make peace much more likely
because the arab speaking jews see how the minorities of the middle east
and will never agree to give up israel because of it.
they see how the copts live like dogs and there are no arab protests against it.. no one screams death to egypt for the state of the copts there..
i’m citing someone who lived it
you can watch the video instead
interviews with people who were there
“And are you saying the Jewish exodus from the Arab countries happened before and was the pretext for the creation of Israel?”
the rise of arab nationalism happened before and was the pretext for jewish exodus. it is why half of israels jewish population holds onto israel and will never “return” to iraq, yemen, morocco etc.
the farhud was years before israel became a state
the fez pogrom too
the incitement, and the violence, the instability that is the arab world drove them away
“Why do the Palestinians have to pay”
circumstance
life isn’t fair
their brothers drove the jews out and they paid the price
where did they think they would go? they would go to the only state that could accept them
and of course they would fight to hold it
they had nowhere else
back home they were screaming itbach al yahud
actually it’s a repeating theme with the palestinain cause
outsiders latched onto it for their own reasons and in the name of the movement sabotaged palestinian aspirations for their own position
arabnationalist.. islamist movements.. and you guys
playing the same game
latching onto the palestinains because you have an ideological ax to grind
turning to populism was the biggest mistake they amde
I can’t really engage you on this since I don’t know much about the Jewish exodus, but the way you talk about it is just racist. You keep saying ‘the Arabs’ this and that.
And I won’t doubt what the interviewees say reflexively, but it would be nice if you provided some scholarly sources and gave an argument that was more detailed.
I’m interested in hearing more, but I absolutely reject your racist framing of all this stuff as ‘Arabs’ plotting to kill ‘the Jews’.
And you still haven’t explained why the Palestinians had to pay for this – if it happened as you say it did.
i suggest you watch interviews with survivors
they talk about how the arabs related to the jews.
these are two distinct communities
an arab left a comment on the video.. translate it…
ايام الفرهود كانت بسبب حماقات مفتي القدس امين الحسيني وعقلية رشيد عالي ويوم قتل الملك غازي وظفت تلك العملية ضد يهود العراق الاصلاء نهبت المحلات وقتل المئات دون اي ذنب وسميت بالغوغاء الاعمى بعدها توقف شريان الاقتصاد. يهود العراق صاحب ثاني اقدم تلمود بالعراق.. فاضل شناشيل
the palestinains pay for it because the refugees had nowhere else.
it’s unfair
it’s a circumstance of life
they are paying for the mistakes of their brothers
reject framing it arab and jew all you want
that’s how it’s framed in the middle east these are two distinct communities with a gulf between them the size of the grand canyon to ignore it is to jam your head into the sand
“this is a bashing arena for people who hate israel ideologically”
Gosh, the world sucks, donnit!
“And you live in America, Cliff, also both a colonial and settler-State.”
Goddamit, Cliff, can’t you see that if Jews are not given leave to commit every historical crime, and in the name of Judaism, well, it’s worse than the Holocaust!
Great logic.
it’s what happened
you want to know why i told you
why did they go to israel? because there was no where else.
i never said it’s fair
war isn’t fair
they drove the jews against a wall and then tried to finish the job. this is how the mizrachim view it
and now they live in a state with jews from all over the world
and they won’t leave.
“Goddamit, Cliff, can’t you see that if Jews are not given leave to commit every historical crime, and in the name of Judaism, well, it’s worse than the Holocaust!”
israel isn’t a crime
israel is a necessity
can you explain to me how jews from iraq (and other arab states) will go to iraq (and other arab states) to live?
never mind that they don’t want to leave..
i have a quote for you
i am not here to tell you israel is righteous
just that it is not what you make it out to be.
israel and it’s complex conflict with the arabs brings you a feeling of righteousness.
this is what i see. the snide comments, the over bearing name calling. calling me “zio”…
educate yourself on the history of the jews and arabs
before israel
the jews have been there since before islam, the history is long
and here’s a quote to leave you guys with:
“Beware the righteous, for they are righteous when they are right, and they are righteous when they are wrong; they navigate by a missionary compass, and when it loses its North, they steer with conviction toward the South, unknowing”
“remember?
before the wall?”
Oh, yes, that wonderful wall.
link
As for the suicide bombings, they were terrible, but some liberal Zionists don’t seem to get so worked up when their bombs blow up larger numbers of Palestinian civilians. In fact, they often deny all responsibility.
Tell the Israelis to stop acting righteous. It was the Zionist drive to take over the entire land of Palestine that began the war. With no war, no Israel, the Mizrahim would have remained in their homelands.
Tell the Israelis to acknowledge their guilt, their responsibility, and that will be a beginning.
israel isn’t a crime
israel is a necessity
When you begin with a false premise, everything that follows is false.
When a state is born in sin, everything that follows is sinful.
The Copts and Christians of Iraq happen to be just as “Arab” as the rest of the Iraqis and Egyptians.
potsherd
go tell the assyrians in iraq they are arab
i’m sure they will be happy
and tell you how yes they are arab
despite the fact that they predate the arab expansion out of arabia
you know, not everybody identifies with arab nationalism. the minorities of the middle east are allowed to maintain an identity separate from the arabs. it’s not a crime for an assyrian, or a kurd to have their own identity.
berbers.. copts.. jews.. assyrians.. maronites
all predate mohammeds conquest out of arabia.
speaking english doesn’t make you an englishman
and speaking arabic doesn’t make you an arab
Dorkie, you need to work on your literacy. That’s why we use the irony quotes.
Egyptians, for example, are ethnically … Egyptians. You know, those pyramid guys. A lot of them coverted to Christianity, some of them never converted again to Islam.
Oh, and did you know that the Palestinians aren’t “Arab” either? That they are, in fact, ethnically about the same people as the Mizrahi Jews? Although some of them have been Christians for about as long as the Copts.
“Egyptians, for example, are ethnically … Egyptians. You know, those pyramid guys. A lot of them coverted to Christianity, some of them never converted again to Islam.”
egyptians are not an homogenous ethnic group. there are many ethnicities in egypt. influence from africa, arabia and the maghreb. the arab world as well is not the same in ethnicity. when the arabs spread they spread with them their language and culture and religion. some took it on and some did not. that’s a personal matter for the ones making the decision. not you.
today in the middle east copts, berbers, kurds, assyrians, jews and maronites, and kurds define themselves as separate from arabs. they hold for themselves ethnic identities that distinguish themselves from the arab majority. that’s their business.
go tell the assyrians they are arab.
they are not and they will tell you they aren’t
because they do not define themselves that way
and they choose to see themselves as a nation separate from the arabs
as many maronites do
and many jews do, so do the berbers.
how mizrachim define themselves is their business. not your.
i was just reporting how they identify. they tend to vote religious nationalist parties, they are not running to join the arab world
just because arab nationalism came and laid claim to everything middle eastern doesn’t make it true.
Ethnic minorities in Egypt are formed by Nubians, Berbers, Bedouins, Arabs, Beja and Dom.
in north africa the berbers do not identify as arab
in lebanon many maronites do not identity as arab
the assyrians do not as well
and neither do most mizrachi jews
you will learn to deal with it eventually. people define their identity. not others. i identify others as arabs when they identify themselves that way. i am not int he habbit of foisting my identity onto others.
Egyptians were not a homogenous ethnic group back when they were building pyramids, either.
It’s the Israelis who go around calling people “Arabs” in order to denigrate them and drive them out of their homes, because it would be embarassing if they admitted they were expelling the descendants of Jews.
?????
they call themselves arabs!! palestinains and israeli arabs do that on their own! they identify themselves as arabs nobody needs to do it for them. mizrachi jews do not! that is the difference.
good god…
Mizrahi Jews often call themselves “Arab Jews” although this was more common a generation ago.
And Palestinian citizens of Israel often take offense at being called “Israeli Arabs”. Possibly because in Israel, “Arab” is equivalent to “nigger.” They may not call themselves Jews but their ancestors were Judeans, nonetheless.
I almost look forward to seeing how you will manage to misread this comment, but the thread has gone past 100 comments, the point at which I abandon posts here, as the software can’t handle the volume.
You guys should have abandoned it earlier, because you let this guy threadjack the discussion into several different channels, all of it taking attention away from the original post. So rather than talk about Israeli human rights violations, he’s got you talking about everything else.
This guys source of evidence is linking us to the website of the Lebanese Forces…
The same guys who with the aid of the Israeli military committed the Sabra and Shatila Massacre.
What a clown…
if you can’t link to someone connected to the civil war you can’t connect to the lebanese!
everyone in lebanon has blood on there hands.. every political party.. don’t play make believe here…. no political party from the era is clean.
i was pointing to a post by an iraqi jew. the issue at hand was the claim that mizrachi jews went by their own accord, unlike the palestinains. it’s not true.
that forum sees hizballah supporters, aoun supporters, hariri supporters, gaegae supporters, apolitical people, arabs form across the arab world, israelis, americans.. everybody posting there. it’s an interesting place. lebanon is a complex place politicly.
but whatever
the thread began as a response to the false claim that the mosque arsonists had been released.
that was not true. they are on house arrest until their trial completes.
immediately it went to shit. i asked for a source, and got insults.
No.
You went to a site that is politically aligned to a fascist group that most Lebanese (I’ve actually lived in Lebanon) try to disassociate themselves from. We’re talking about a group of Lebanese many of whom were trained in the IDF in Israel and partook in the Sabra and Shatila massacre with Israeli assistance.
Furthermore, you didn’t even post a link to a credible source, you linked us to an internet discussion board (and a dubious discussion board at that) to try to prove your point.
Imagine if tried to give you a full account of the way European people all over the world felt by linking you to a discussion over at StormFront.
Its time you stopped embarrassing yourself.
i also linked to a documentary. go there if you like. or try talking to some mizrachi jews.
supporters from every party from march 14th and march 8th is present there
that’s what amkes it interesting. you can read the same sentiments on the oragne room, the tayaar forum.
“Imagine if tried to give you a full account of the way European people all over the world felt by linking you to a discussion over at StormFront.”
BS. kaeteb and lebanese forces have more seats than hizballah and as many as aouns movement.
they are nazis huh? what are the plo who committed the massacre at damour? and who is walid joumblatt? and who is nabbih berri. is he without blood on his hands?
finde the innocent, pacifist party form lebanons civil war years. please.
you can ignore them if you want. it’s hardly the point of my post. if you want to learn about the mizrachim you can. if not, you won’t
i also linked to a documentary. go there if you like. or try talking to some mizrachi jews.
supporters from every party from march 14th and march 8th is present there
that’s what amkes it interesting. you can read the same sentiments on the oragne room, the tayaar forum.
“Imagine if tried to give you a full account of the way European people all over the world felt by linking you to a discussion over at StormFront.”
BS. first of all i wasn’t giving any account about how lebanese people felt. at all. read the thread. i was pointing to a post in arabic by an iraqi jew. youa re twisting what i did. that’s one
two – kaeteb and lebanese forces have more seats than hizballah and as many as aouns movement. they represent combined as many christians in lebanon as aoun does. that’s two.
three – they are facists huh? what are the plo who committed the massacre at damour? and who is walid joumblatt? and who is nabbih berri. is he without blood on his hands?
finde the innocent, pacifist party from lebanons civil war years. they all fought. and they all committed crimes..
you can ignore them if you want. it’s hardly the point of my post. if you want to learn about the mizrachim you can. if not, you won’t
Israeli Jews have impunity for just about any crime under the age of 18, so the terrorist leaders send them out in front to commit their crimes, so they will just be released to sin all over again. If these were Arabs, of course it would be called “hiding behind human shields.”
But then, Arabs can be arrested at just about any age, even under the age of 16, which is the age that Arabs are subject to arrest as adults in the territories. And they need not be charged but can be held for years as “security prisoners.”
The US State Dept. spokesman in Tel-Aviv was interviewed on Democracy Now when Tristan was shot. The spokesman could have easily been confused for an Israeli government official: “We warn US citizens prior to traveling to any conflict zone, that they do so on their own risk blah blah….”
Rachael Corrie, we really don’t give a shit about you; we are the USA regime. GOYS with no honor.
Haaretz 31/01/2002 (Quoting AP report):
link to haaretz.com
The Justice Ministry declared Sunday that no indictments will be filed against police in the case of an American activist who was hit by a tear gas canister and left comatose during a violent demonstration in the West Bank last year.
Tristan Anderson, 38, of Oakland, California, was critically injured during a Palestinian protest in the West Bank village of Naalin last March. Amir Moran, spokesman for Israel’s Tel Hashomer hospital, where Anderson is being treated, said his condition has not changed.
Justice Ministry spokesman Ron Roman said the investigation determined there was no criminal intent in harming Anderson. The investigation was opened in May and closed several weeks ago, but results were made public only Sunday.
Human rights groups charge Anderson’s case highlights a culture of impunity toward Israeli forces, because incidents of harm against Palestinians and their supporters are rarely investigated and few reach prosecution.
The number of civilians harmed and injured and then the number of
investigations – a small minority of cases, and a tiny number of prosecutions – point to a very, very clear picture of impunity, said Sarit Michaeli of Israeli rights group B’Tselem.
There were around 400 protesters at the demonstration where Anderson was
injured in Naalin last year, the military said at the time. Some of them threw rocks at troops, who used riot gear to quell the unrest, it added, without elaborating.
Anderson’s family was not immediately available for comment
Charges will not be brought against the police officers who shot an American pro-Palestinian activist in the face, Israel’s justice ministry has said.
Tristan Anderson suffered severe brain damage when he was shot at a rally in the West Bank town of Naalin last year.
The officers did not have any “criminal intent” when they shot Mr Anderson, a ministry spokesman said.
Mr Anderson, 38, was in a coma for months and can only communicate with basic sounds, friends say.
The case was closed without indicting anyone after an internal police investigation because “there was no proof of criminal behaviour by the police”, Justice Ministry spokesman Moshe Cohen told the AFP news agency .
Regular clashes
Mr Anderson, from Oakland California, was among 400 people demonstrating against the building of the West Bank barrier.
The village is one of several places where stone-throwing Palestinian youths clash regularly with police.
Mr Anderson was shot by a riot policeman from between 60-70 m (213ft), it was reported.
The Anderson family’s lawyer said Mr Anderson had not been throwing rocks at police, according to AFP.
“The demonstration was actually for all practical purposes over,” said Michael Sfard, who insisted the family would appeal the decision.
A number of European or American activists have been killed or injured in demonstrations in the West Bank and Gaza.
Tom Hurndall, 22, was shot by an Israeli sniper in 2003 while at a demonstration in Gaza, he died in Britain nine months later.
Rachel Corrie, 23, was also killed in Gaza a month earlier when a bulldozer crushed her.
In 2004, the International Court of Justice in The Hague issued an advisory ruling that the barrier was illegal and should be removed.
Israel’s official position is that the barrier is a security fence, defending its citizens from attacks by Palestinians.
The Palestinians, on the other hand, view it as as a land grab as the route of the wall cuts deep into the West Bank in places.
Only 15% of the barrier follows the Green Line, the internationally recognised boundary between the West bank and Israel.
The barrier, is a mixture of fences, barbed wire, ditches and concrete slabs up to 8m (26ft) high.