The Netanyahu insult to Joe Biden is the greatest thing that ever happened. It has woken a lot of people up, maybe including Joe Biden, who is streetsmart, and will allow the mainstream press in the US to finally question the special relationship and what it is doing to the American interest. You say I’m smoking something. Here is Laura Rozen at Politico:
People who heard what Biden said [to Netanyahu behind closed doors] were stunned. “This is starting to get dangerous for us,” Biden castigated his interlocutors. “What you’re doing here undermines the security of our troops who are fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan. That endangers us and it endangers regional peace.”
The vice president told his Israeli hosts that since many people in the Muslim world perceived a connection between Israel’s actions and US policy, any decision about construction that undermines Palestinian rights in East Jerusalem could have an impact on the personal safety of American troops fighting against Islamic terrorism.
Fox News gets the story here: Biden trip is filled with snubs, cold shoulders and mishaps. Foxman likens Biden to Mearsheimer and Walt. Exactly. Mearsheimer and Walt were right. This is not in our interest to be supporting ethnic cleansing!
Obama really is a sucker; or else, Rahm has him by the short hairs, threatening Israel First policy goes right along with any hope of getting a health insurance bill passed. Not to mention the MSM could, it it wanted to, that is, if AIPAC pressed it a bit, tear Obamacare a new asshole by publishing dirty details so far ignored. Or, Obama is really naive, thinking he could send his VP over there and the VP wouldn’t get the bronx cheer, just as Obama got it after his Cairo speech and did–nothing.
Foxman doesn’t actually deny that Israeli actions endanger US forces in the Mideast, he just doesn’t want anyone to say so.
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Why would Biden be insulted or give priority to American interests? Was not he who baosted during election campaign: “I don’t have to be Jewish to be a Zionist”. At least his daughter-in-law is Jewish.
Biden is certainly among the people Michael Scheuer calls “America’s Fifth Column”:
link to rehmat1.wordpress.com
His super ego confused him for a brief moment–his hair-plugged vanity was ruffled.
Phil is right. This is the best news. This is highly significant on two accounts: what was said, and the fact that it was reported. Here in the US.
Biden wasn’t talking out of his hat. He had Obama’s permission to twist some balls.
I wonder about that, MRW–Biden can be a hot head despite all his political years in office–I think he took it personally, his vanity and hair plugs were momentarily stirred too much. His response petered out at the end; and it was more than offset by all his
promises the US would hang tight with Israel, no space between them.
Here’s the tepid petition J Street is sending to Obama apropos the slap to Beiden–J Street is taking signatures now if you think it will dent Rahm Emanuel, err, I mean Obama:
Oops forgot the petition, which you can reach on salsa if you want to sign it:
“We applaud your Administration’s early commitment to achieving a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the appointment of Special Envoy George Mitchell.
As pro-Israel, pro-peace Americans, we urge you to take even stronger action to achieve a two-state solution and to proceed with an urgency of purpose suited to the danger of the moment.”
We believe success will require that the U.S. provide a clear time frame for talks, commit to propose solutions when the parties can’t close gaps, be willing to state publicly when the parties are not living up to their responsibilities, and be ready to demonstrate real seriousness of purpose to reach a two-state endgame.
Not to defecate on the parade, but… I’m not going to be impressed until people like Biden are willing to say that in front of cameras, instead of behind closed doors.
Because Israel knows that as long as they exert control the course of American foreign policy to the point where Biden has to kiss Netanyahu’s ass whenever there’s a camera on the two of them together? It’s all just talk that’s almost as empty as an Obama campaign promise.
I’m with you on that score chaos.
The real fucking story should have been about how a bunch of Americans got together in New York two nights ago and raised TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS FOR A FOREIGN ARMY!
The temirity of the zionist is hitting psychosis levels – whereas in the past they used to do this kind of shit on small scale in basements, now it’s right in our faces fucking Vegas style.
That no one in the mainstream media blinked an eye at such a treasonous event does not surprise me – I’d weep at this but my tears are all dried up.
I would love to know the names of all the ‘donators’ of that nefarious night. I would love to name and shame them by sticking their individula names and faces on giant billboards across America with the slogan: “This American and his/her friends raised twenty million dollars in a single night and donated it all to a foreign army.” I’d love to know what Midwestern Mack, Joe and Gus would make of this.
When you can raise twenty million overnight – now that’s power!
The kind of power that no American president can overcome or offend – no matter the cause-celebre of the fundraiser.
Pretty scary shit!
Because the backlash to all this insanity is bound to be devestating.
We live in extreme times indeed.
Hey, you are right, that’s 20 million could have helped our GIs in their veteran hospital beds, or paid for 20 US grunts overseas–that’s how much each one is costing us–big business, the MIC Ike warned us about.
If it takes insults to get the truth to see the light of day I hope the insults keep flying … I would love to see Joe become the point-man in a street brawl with the israeli-thug regime – what a spectacle!
And did Elin hit Tiger on the head with one of those gold clubs? How on Earth did Tiger’s team come up with Ari Fleischer to handle his coming back PR ???
Welcome to Israel, Joe!
link to vsthepomegranate.blogspot.com
sure wish I could speak/understand Farsi: I’d love to know what the mullahs are saying between their bursts of laughter.
Maybe Mahmoud could give Biden lessons on staring down Israelis.
Actually, it’s pretty depressing that Beiden only suddenly realized that what Israel does with the Palestinians has an impact on US grunts overseas in the Middle East. We are over there, it is claimed my our government, due to 9/11 in the case of Afghanistan, and due to “spreading democracy” in the case of Iraq (no WMD, the original reason). Does anyone think Beiden ever read the original draft of the 9/11 Commission as to terrorist motivations? Did he read how the terrorist testimony pin-pointing rubber-stamping of Israel’s actions as motive was sanatized into the generic
notion that foreign policy always has some blowback?
Anyone have a clue? I’d guess he never read the 9/11 Commission Report, let alone
the original draft which contained the terrorist motives specifics.
Anyone notice that there’s be no comment from Witty? Witty, who keeps insisting that great strides are being made by Obama and that only gentle caressing will persuade the Israelis to reform?
I’ve noticed that he’s been long gone since he called you a coward, and then fled from your responses to his nonsenses.
Congrats, Shingo! Though I’m sure he’ll slink back in sooner or later.
Thanks for the compliment Chaos, but Witty is impervious to facts.
What scares him are headlines. He usually stays away when there are a run of headlines that are morally indefensible. These ones in particular make an absolute mockery of his “humanism”, “mutual respect”, “self governance” and “eye on eh prize catch phrases”.
Just to be fair, Witty has often told us he is not for the settlements, at least for settlement expansion over the last couple years. OTH, he has never said all the settlements should be disbanded. Rather, there is apparently some time cut off in his mind as to which “facts on the ground” should be allowed as bargaining chips
by Israel, and which should not be allowed as such. Or maybe not. As you know, Richard Witty likes to speak abstactly; he shys away from such details, all the while advocating we keep our eyes on the prize of mutually acceptable and respectful peace.
oops: abstractly
You know, Citizen, everyone credits Reagan with “tearing down that wall” in Russia when it was Gorbachev. Gorbachev, like Obama with congress over Israel, faced an entrenched military government that did not want to see any changes to the status quo. So, Gorby, used his head and attacked another way, in an unseen way. He gave the kids their music. Remember Billy Joel going to Moscow in 1985, and what a big deal that was? At the same time, he allowed the old people to practice their religion, whatever it was.
So all of a sudden, the young and the old were singing Gorby’s praises at the dinner table and the middle, his government officials, couldn’t even get support at home. It broke up the Russian society, so that Gorby could introduce Glasnost. It was Gorbachev’s chauffeur telling Margaret Thatcher’s chauffeur about what Gorbachev had done, and Thatcher subsequently telling her buddy Reagan that caused the huge break in the Cold War.
Obama’s problem is Congress. It’s the bottleneck. But the WH is no doubt aware of MJ Rosenberg bitching about the Israelis, and reporters like Nir Rosen, and phone calls to the White House from voters complaining about money sent to Israel that should go to our tent people and schools. (I know this because I have called to complain and the WH operator said she was getting a lot of calls about it.) And C-Span callers are expressing their displeasure with US/Israeli coziness. The point being Obama’s bottleneck is different than Gorbachev’s but the shape of it is not. The American people are miles ahead of Congress on this issue; they’re like the kids in the Gorby example. US congressmen rely upon Jewish donor dollars and represent the pinch in the middle and they’re not going to give that up without pressure. Biden, as the second most senior official in the country, is on the other side of the congressional bottleneck where only someone of his stature can get through the US press logjam that refuses to publish anything not immediately flattering to Israel. THAT’s why this is significant. Biden got through, and he got through with a message that Israel is a now danger to the United States of America! And he invoked it’s threat to the US military.
This is geopolitical press, pal, and this is how it’s played.
“everyone credits Reagan with “tearing down that wall”
I’ve never heard anyone credit Reagan with that. Maybe they just did it in America.
Pretty much, RoHa. Pretty much. He’s virtually a venerated saint among Republicans (and certain wayward conserva-Dems)
Absolutely, RoHa. Reagan is credited in the US as being the only genius in the world to scream at Gorbachev to “tear down this wall.” And, of course, Gorbachev obeyed him. Google it: Reagan Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall
Gorbachev tore down the wall. Reagan simply told the world to notice it.
It was complete theatre and it was completely choreographed. Reagan couldn’t tell Gorbachev to do something in Russia; the Politburo would have screeched. So they used East Berlin, which caused the Russians to ask East Germany to help ‘ease tensions’ with the Americans, and how it was ‘harming relations’. The East German communists opened the Wall, and THAT cause the Politburo to realize their days were numbered.
That’s why I am of the mind that its possible what happened with Biden in Israel could have been choreographed to give Netanyahu cover with the settlers, etc.
Especially if Biden is made to look like a freier, a sucker.
Which he was. I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said–Reagan was a consumate actor and it’s true the average American has been shown Reagan screaming at Gorbie to tear down that wall forever; and since the wall came down; without any real details the average American thinks Reagan did it–even the liberals give Reagan kudos for that. I do agree that announcing more settlement expansion while Bideen was in Israel was choreographed by
the Israeli regime–they had every reason to push the envelope further in light of Obama’s backtracking since his Cairo speech and the track record of Israel First maintained for decades by the US congress. OTH, I also agree with you that Biden got through, and he got through with a message that Israel is a now danger to the United States of America! And he invoked it’s threat to the US military. I don’t think the Israeli regime expected that as
part of its script; what remains to be seen is–will the USA MSM pick up on Beiden’s connection as between the stubborn settlement expansion and
it’s indirect threat to US troops stationed in the Middle East? I haven’t seen any evidence of that yet? Krauthammer and ilk will downplay Beiden’s
condemnation of Israel’s actions; he will probably argue that Israel is a great security for US grunts in the Middle East–and Matthews will giggle, and
Obermann and Maddow will ignore the whole spat. And so will Beck, and
O’Reilly. Any takers?
And just for the record, Citizen, I’m not making this up. A highly-connected Romanian-based diplomat told me this story 21 years ago in Manhattan when he was explaining how geopolitical theatre works, and how sometimes they have to plan things four years out to get it all to work. The shit he told me most people wouldn’t even believe. I’ve had two decades to adjust to the reality of it.
This is geopolitical chess, pal, and this is how it’s played.
I’d love to hear a recording of Biden’s statements to assess his tone of voice. I wonder if he seriously believes that the Israeli political establishment doesn’t know that they are “[undermining] the security of our troops who are fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan [and] endangering [the United States] and … regional peace.”
Of course they do, and so does the leadership of the Israel Lobby. I suspect it’s not that they care or don’t care, but that they view the United States military as their mercenary force, an Israeli Foreign Legion (that they don’t have to fund themselves) whose purpose is to support Israeli foreign policy objectives.
In their eyes the US military is paid to be in danger and to take risks, and as long as they get their tasks done, their security is subordinate to other Israeli objectives such as preempting unwanted negotiations with the Palestinians and making an example out of Pres. Obama so future American presidents will see that the penalties for less than slavish devotion are painful and humiliating attacks that will gut the credibility and effectiveness of their administrations likely ensuring a miserable and embarrassing political legacy.
I can’t find a link for it, but I’m sure some readers will remember the (IIRC) Congresswoman who said something like “It is the job of Congress to support whatever decisions Israel makes.”
It was the odious and cringe-inducing Anne Lewis, Colin Murray, who said that. She’s Barney Frank’s sister. Her voice alone makes me want to put her head under water for a week.
I can’t find a link for it, but I’m sure some readers will remember the (IIRC) Congresswoman who said something like “It is the job of Congress to support whatever decisions Israel makes.”
It’s this kind of slavish support from the Congress which makes me question why anyone can deny the grip of the Israel lobby on American politics. Chomsky, a vehement denier of the power of AIPAC and the Israel lobby, regularly marginalizes the effects of these organizations by stating that Israel is merely an agent, one of many, unquestionably carrying out the commandents of the ‘Godfather’, America. It’s statements like these, however, which transparently show that the opposite is true.
And we all know that Kennedy’s attempt to require AIPAC’s former self to register
as a foreign lobby agent was dumped–Americans in general never even knew about the issue, and they still don’t. All the zionists had to do was rename their lobby entity and
make their financial clout less direct in terms of donations.
I read the comments section at Huff Post to Foxman’s piece. At the time there were only 21 commentators, but all 21 came down on him hard. Not a single Hasbara plant in the bunch. Where is that organized Hasbara movement coming out of Israel we have been hearing so much about? Folks, I think we just might have the upper hand here– there are more of us than there are of them who are willing to take the time to post an personally composed response.
I’m inclined to think that it just missed their radar. No matter how rabid the Hasbara effort is, it’s premature to declare victory just because one piece of news didn’t contain their usual brand of propaganda.
there are more of us than there are of them who are willing to take the time to post an personally composed response.
Here’s the thing: we don’t work from precomposed and canned messages. The Hasbara effort OTOH is defined by the dissemination of the same information in a rather obnoxious manner. The public is getting increasingly aware of their activities, though, as in one piece of news Israeli posted on The Guardian, the same message was posted multiple times by some Hasbara lackeys under different accounts. Suffice it to say their readership was definitely alerted to the campaign.
I have no doubt, however, that their recent heavy-handededness, especially in regards to their efforts to curb the growing activism on colleges, is going to severely undermine their own aims. The tide is definitely turning against Israel, if the Hasbaradim in the American institutions continue to suppress the criticism of Israel, they are going to invite scrutiny of the Zionist establishment on a whole other level.
Yeah. You should have seen what happened when Max Blumenthal posted there. There were HUNDREDS of attacks on him. HUNDREDS. Most of them by new commentors who posted once, or maybe a couple of times on HuffPo, then vanished into the woodwork.
Keep an eye on it. You can literally see when the GIYUS alert goes out and the comments get washed out by hasbara spam. The timestamps always give it away.
Last year there was a number of very pro-Israel posts that showed up here at Mondoweiss. I copied a number of phrases from those posts and googled them. Often they were clear cut and paste jobs from other sources. Many of us challenged them as cut and paste jobs. They then stopped posting. The point is, it seems to me, that they do not have enough posters willing to compose original pieces. I do believe that those of us who support Palestinian rights are willing to take the time to compose a few sentences for that cause in whatever forum, it can be effective. Also, at the same time, google the other side in order to identify the organized spam responses and when those are revealed, point it out.
That has always been the modus operandi of most pro-Israeli commentators. I suspect it comes down to the sound bite tactic, where they believe a simplistic argument (based on worn out myths) will suffice. Until recently, the Zionist were accustomed to spouting their propaganda without being challenged, and suddenly they are finding that Israeli critics are pushing back, and they are floundering. Those that stick it out and try to get creative, like Witty, well, need I say more?
Being well informed about the topic has helped me a great deal, but I can honestly say I have yet to come across a Zionist argument that I have not been able to debunk by citing facts off the top of my head. They will enter a thread with guns blazing and once they are confronted, they either back down and feign ignorance, or dissapear altogether. Only recently on this blog, we were joned by an extremist settler who’s name eludes me (who was interviewed on the ABC), and in spite of actually being fortright in his interview (albeit deluded), he produced a surprisingly limp wristed response when I challenged his arguments. He stuck around for little more than a day.
As for original arguments, it never ceases to amaze me that given the resources the Israeli lobby has at it’s disposal (both financial and intellectual), they seem completely incapable of constructing arguments that are not supercial and shallow. Even the so called Zionist academics cannot string a thesis together without relying on copious hyperbole and hysteria. Dershowitz is a prime example.
On that piece by Richard Cohen at the Washington Post the other week (Re apartheid Israel) , I registered and enterned the debate. Not only was debunking Cohne’s piece like taking candy from a baby, but I was amazed at how poor the arguments were from the pro Israeli fraternity. And it was pleasatnyl surprising that among the resgistered commentators from this right wing new source, most were critical of Israel. This woudl have been unheard of in 2002.
I noticed the same trend on the Biden Politico piece and the NYT piece. The comments are overwhelmingly critical of Israel.
We might be getting ahead of ourselves, but I can’t help but agree that the tide is turning syvanen.
Back to the Combatting BDS paper that came out a few days ago. That was one of 5 reports from working groups, the other papers are here:
link to gfantisemitism.org
It’s worth taking a look at the WG3 paper about combatting antisemitism online. It’s definition of antisemitism is the highly problematic EU Working Definition, which seeks to collapse the distinction between antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiment. In fact, one if the suggested actions in the paper is to push hard to get that definition formally adopted by the EU. Otherwise there’s a lot of space devoted to pressuring and individual ISPsand websites and online forums.
This I think is a pretty clear acknowledgement that hasbara is ineffective within a forum situation and a potentially ominous shift in strategy to some heavy duty free speech limitations..
I forgot to mention the paper also, blissfully unaware of the irony, suggested some of the proposed legislation needs to be global in nature. I can’t help but smile when I hear Israel advocating the rule of international law.
From Joe Biden’s speech today :
“I appreciate, by the way, the response your prime minister today announced this morning that he is putting in place a process to prevent the recurrence of that sort of events and who clarified that the beginning of actual construction on this particular project would likely take several years – a statement he put out.
That’s significant, because it gives negotiations the time to resolve this, as well as other outstanding issues. Because when it was announced, I was on the West Bank. Everyone there thought it had meant immediately the resumption of the construction of 1,600 new units.”
So :
1. Since these housing units destined for E J’lem are only in their “Planning Stages” lets not worry about them, even though as we speak Israel is seeking to make another Hebron out of E J’lem. Yeah, well get to this later. Oh and keep on doing as you please, just don’t do on my vacation, to this, my favorite place on Earth. You might have to wait a while to eat your meal.
2. “when it was announced, I was on the West Bank. Everyone there thought it had meant immediately the resumption of the construction of 1,600 new units.”
Wow, how over presumptuous of the Palestinians to interpret Israel’s motives, who at every point at which they look upon the hills, there sits a settlement. Nope, Nothing to see here, move along.
More of the same hypocrisy from the U.S.
So Biden has basically just legitimized Israel’s whole endeavor with his comments.
My point exactly. It doesn’t matter what Biden says behind closed doors. The back room dick measuring contests don’t mean anything. The stuff that happens in front of the cameras? That’s what the public sees. And Israel knows that.
Except that you have to wonder WHY were backroom conversations between leaders leaked? That’s not normal. Furthermore, why leaked to a Hebrew/Israel daily tabloid, then translated for Politico? Politico is considered a conservative site, and bonafide on NBC, Fox, CBS, ABC, MSNBC. This was no accident.
No, it wasn’t an accident, it was damage control. For all we know, there was no Biden 90 min. delay or backroom BS. Without the leak, it looks as though Israel simply dictates policy to the US –and nobody wants to know that.
I’m more interested in hearing why Israel made such a public spectacle in the first place. Cui bono?
I chalk it up to Israeli internal politics–thumbing your nose at the Great Uncle Sam is loved by the Israeli right, very, very patriotic! Israel has its fair share of Rush Limbaughs. As for Beiden, in the except of his speech provided by yajujwamajuj above on this thread, he never acknowledged that any settlement
expansion is directly contrary to official US policy. He didn’t even speak up for his own country’s values! All he said, was, since the expansion won’t take place on the ground for awhile, it won’t interfere with the peace negotiations he is is pushing–he has just given yet another blank check to Israel–can he really be that stupid? Or that enslaved to Israel’s whims at his own countries expense, and incurring the increasing hypocricy of the USA in the eyes of the
world? Jeez. He’s really hopeless, as is Obama, his boss. Doesn’t Beiden have a young relative in the US Army in the Middle East? What a sucker. A real goyischkopf to use the appropriate lingo. Remember when he was caught red-handed plagiarizing a speech? Does he now think his hair plugs
are him? I don’t see any character manifest in Joe Beiden. He probably
lied about his own mother’s values too.
This kind of suicidal arrogance coupled with the distinct possibility that the next generation of Jews see Netanyahu’s vision as a total anachronism makes we wonder if this problem might not, to an extent, simply work itself out on its own.
Generations can change quickly and it seems that kids who drift from strict religious upbringing usually drift FAR from it.
The recent poll of Israeli HS students, the subject of a thread on this blog a few days ago, indicates that the fascist religious right in Israel gains more power by the day.
The likud/Israeli Beintanhu/Shas coalition is a disaster for the world, US, Israel, Palestine, Arab world, all included.
For those that “asked” where I was, I actually work. Three days a week, LONG days.
The likud/Israeli Beintanhu/Shas coalition is what Israel has become and yes, Israel is a disaster for the world.
I didn’t ask. I was just happy you were away from the keyboard. You don’t look a gift horse in the mouth, Witty.
Just think how many more hours you have to work to pay for taxes that fund aid to Israel, wars for Israel and bailouts of Jewish financial criminals.
Thanks MRW for the posts, especially:
That’s why I am of the mind that its possible what happened with Biden in Israel could have been choreographed to give Netanyahu cover with the settlers, etc.
I would have never considered this by myself. Hmmm.
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