Remember when Barack Obama sparred with Hillary Clinton during the Democratic primary race over engaging with countries considered hostile to the United States? This is from a CNN report about a July 2007 debate during the primaries:
The question was a simple one but it elicited one of the few differences between Sens. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama so far in the race for the 2008 Democratic presidential nomination: "Would you be willing to meet separately during the first year of your administration, with leaders of Syria, Iran, Venezuela and others to bridge the gap between our countries?"
Obama said he would be willing to have such meetings. "The notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them - which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration - is ridiculous," explained Obama.
That sounds like a sensible policy. If only President Obama governed the same way candidate Obama said he would, then we might have had someone in the White House who included Hamas in discussions about the way forward in the Middle East. Hamas is an important player in Palestinian politics, and won free and fair elections in 2006 to represent the Palestinian people. Mahmoud Abbas' emergency governing mandate has ended, and Prime Minister Salam Fayyad was illegally appointed as Prime Minister by Abbas after the dissolution of the Fatah-Hamas governing coalition.
The Gaza government confirmed reports Monday that it had reached out to the US administration in written letters, denying, however, that notes were related to a ceasefire deal.
"The government sent a letter to US president Barack Obama a few months ago calling for an end to Israel's siege and an end the double standards [America] employed while dealing with the Palestinian cause," de facto government spokesman Taher An-Nunu said via news release on Monday.
The comments followed a report in Hebrew language Israeli daily newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth, which said de facto government Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh had written to Obama two weeks ago saying he was prepared "recognize Israel within the 1967 borders in exchange for a ceasefire agreement."
Don’t hold your breath for a response from the Obama administration. They’ve made clear that they will continue to support Israel’s policy of separating the West Bank and Gaza from each other and of propping up the Palestinian Authority and isolating Hamas.
The only question is whether he was lying from the git-go or corrupted by the office.
Obama got the blessing of Aipac in June 2008 when Aipac’s favorite girl, Hillary, didn’t stand a chance of winning the primaries, and in order to get that blessing and Emanuel’s last-minute endorsement, he had to grovel at their feet and read the Aipac script prepared for him declaring that he was for an undivided Jerusalem and committed to the remaining commandments that Aipac has chiseled in stone for all members of Congress and future Administrations to obey.
Unrelated, but I think this perfectly sums up US and Israel’s approach to ‘defense’.
link to whitehouse.georgewbush.org
It’s so much easier dealing with an unreasonable terrorist group like Al Qaeda which won’t reason and is bent on mindless violence.
When a group like Hamas actually has a case – however much you disapprove of their ideology or modus operandi – and can be reasoned with then it would mean the US looking at its own shortcomings and the faults of Israel. Black and white is a much easier scenario to deal with than shades of gray.
Hamas can be reasoned with?
Well then Alex, take Phil and together go meet Haniya in Gaza or Meshal in Damascus and interview them for this blog and prove to us that they can be reasoned with.
Why don’t you read some of the numerous interviews with Meshaal and Haniyah that are available on the internet rather than bugging Alex and Phil?
Care to present one such interview that says that Hamas is for the two state solution? Or are they just in favor of a hudna, instead of peace.
Care to provide the Google search terms you used to find the California incident? You are avoiding answering the question that could prove your bonafides. Why?
Because I have already played this stupid game with Danna the crack whore and Avi the liar. First they said I didn’t know Hebrew. Then they said my Hebrew was too good and that was fishy. Then they said I copied my personal information from a facebook page.
No proof would suffice for you.
You are avoiding the question. You said you found the California incident from 2003 by doing a Google search. You can absolutely prove that by telling us the search terms you used, because we can use those same terms and find the same incident. If you want to be believed here then its in your interest to provide the easily determined proof of what you claimed.
“Because I have already played this stupid game with Danna the crack whore and Avi the liar.”
Ah, yes, “eee” the commenter who is always respectful to other commenters.
Barring mistakes, I always try to be respectful to commenters that are respectful to me. Neither Avi the liar nor Danna the crack whore have been respectful.
“Barring mistakes, I always try to be respectful to commenters that are respectful to me.”
And damn it, you know the difference! Especially when anti-Semites ask “the wrong questions”
I still cannot really believe you are for real. I’ve met plenty of obnoxious Israelis, but you seem to be some kind of uber parody of Israeli obnoxiousness. Still not convinced you aren’t an anti-Zionist who has dedicated himself to making Israel-supporters appear as bad as possible.
Although the “atheist Jew” schtick is a clever twist, I’ll give you that.
eee is all the proof we need of the depravity of the Zionist apologist.
Keep it up, fella.
You have to be blazingly clueless to think you deserve any respect after throwing crack whore as an insult.
The most that Obama could do would be to pass on communication from Hamas to Israel. The US is not a party to the question on Israel’s blockade.
But, Hamas could have written then letter to Israel themselves. Anything less is PR only.
There are now two reputable mediating bodies between Hamas and the PA, Turkey and Egypt. That is their path.
Israel is not looking for a temporary cease-fire agreement. If he is offering permanent confident peace, then maybe Israel will respond.
Anything less is PR only.
Indeed Witty, it is PR only if not followed by actions.
Did you plan your green yarn laying trip already?
“Israel is not looking for a temporary cease-fire agreement. If he is offering permanent confident peace, then maybe Israel will respond.”
Your clutching at straws Witty andmaking up shit as you go. Tzipi Livni saud that a long ceasefire was contrary to Israel’s strategic interests so why would permanent peace be any different?
It inevitably adds a level of confusion to Israel’s agreement to negoitiate with the PLO as the “sole representative of the Palestinian people”.
It is a truth that the offer of a temporary “cease-fire” is saying literally nothing.
Even if offering a permanent peace, Hamas has a long uphill walk for credibility, to be trusted.
“It is a truth that the offer of a temporary “cease-fire” is saying literally nothing.”
Especially given Israel’s propensity to violate them.
“Even if offering a permanent peace, Hamas has a long uphill walk for credibility, to be trusted.”
As opposed to Likud/Kadima, who’s credibility is spotless right Witty?
The US is not a party to the question on Israel’s blockade.
We pay twice for Israel’s blockade. We give Israel money, weapons, and diplomatic protection to run it, and we (and others) pay to keep Israel’s Palestinian victim’s on life support. Or do you think the Israeli government and people pay a plugged nickel for the food, medicine, fuel, power, coriander, etc that Israel deigns to let through their ‘blockade’?
When an American President finally decides (I suspect that I might actually live to see the day) that we should be a party to the ‘Israel blockade question’, i.e. the problem of Israeli ethnic cleansing and colonization, then we will regardless of Zionist protestations that it isn’t any of our business. My people are dying for Israel. That makes it our business.
Godo point Colin,
How does one deny that the US is party to Israel’s blockade, when the US is vetoing or opposing calls to end it?
Good points, both Colin and Shingo. Another is that Egypt’s large annual dole from the USA, second only to Israel’s freebees has a large US string attached: it can’t mess with Israel.
>> Israel is not looking for a temporary cease-fire agreement. If he is offering permanent confident peace, then maybe Israel will respond.
What about green yarn on the green line? Apparently, as utterly ridiculous as that sounds, it’s supposed to work poetic wonders.
>> But, Hamas could have written then letter to Israel themselves. Anything less is PR only.
Where are the letters from Israel to Hamas? Where is the “better argument”? Where is the poetry and green yarn? Or is Israel only supposed to receive offers from peace – and not seek peace – from the people its f*cking over?
Where are the letters from Israel to Hamas? Where is the “better argument”? Where is the poetry and green yarn? Or is Israel only supposed to receive offers from peace – and not seek peace – from the people its f*cking over?”
Don’t forget eljay, letters themselves are not enough. The letters would have to compelling and sincere and convince the Israelis that they really wanted peace. If the Israelis decided to attack Gaza again, then that would prove that Hamas’ letters weren’t sincere enough.
“…. and prove to us that they can be reasoned with.”
Who the fuck is ‘us’, huh Mr. Apartheid?!
I hope Hamas keeps biting the hands that created it: Israel!
I see you are in this for revenge and not for the benefit of the Palestinians. Nice.
Cause the benefit of the Palestinians is Israel’s first order of business, “eee”?
So what if I wanna see that turdy little country flushed down the toilets of history?!
You don’t like it? Then ef-off!
Exactly, Taxi. It never occurred to “eee” that revenge for Israeli intransigence might become a big motivating factor? Of course, when you are as diplomatic, fair, and moderate in character as “eee”, I guess you can smooth anything over, and disarm anyone with pure charm.
Not as much as you’re in this for revenge and not for the benefit of anyone but the pariah Zionist regime.
“Hamas has accepted Israel’s right to exist and would be prepared to nullify its charter, which calls for the destruction of Israel, Aziz Dwaik, Hamas’s most senior representative in the West Bank, said on Wednesday.”
link to davidmartinabrahams.co.uk
“The day Hamas won the Palestinian democratic elections the world’s leading democracies failed the test of democracy. Rather than recognise the legitimacy of Hamas as a freely elected representative of the Palestinian people, seize the opportunity created by the result to support the development of good governance in Palestine and search for a means of ending the bloodshed, the US and EU threatened the Palestinian people with collective punishment for exercising their right to choose their parliamentary representatives…..
Our message to the Israelis is this: we do not fight you because you belong to a certain faith or culture. Jews have lived in the Muslim world for 13 centuries in peace and harmony; they are in our religion “the people of the book” who have a covenant from God and His Messenger Muhammad (peace be upon him) to be respected and protected. Our conflict with you is not religious but political. We have no problem with Jews who have not attacked us – our problem is with those who came to our land, imposed themselves on us by force, destroyed our society and banished our people.”
link to guardian.co.uk
We must adjust our distorted image of Hamas
“Last week I was in Gaza. While I was there I met a group of 20 or so police officers who were undergoing a course in conflict management. They were eager to know whether foreigners felt safer since Hamas had taken over the Government? Indeed we did, we told them. Without doubt the past 18 months had seen a comparative calm on the streets of Gaza; no gunmen on the streets, no more kidnappings. They smiled with great pride and waved us goodbye.
Less than a week later all of these men were dead, killed by an Israeli rocket at a graduation ceremony. Were they “dangerous Hamas militant gunmen”? No, they were unarmed police officers, public servants killed not in a “militant training camp” but in the same police station in the middle of Gaza City that had been used by the British, the Israelis and Fatah during their periods of rule there.
This distinction is crucial because while the horrific scenes in Gaza and Israel play themselves out on our television screens, a war of words is being fought that is clouding our understanding of the realities on the ground. “
link to timesonline.co.uk
See? Witty is right! All those policemen were unwilling to make that “long uphill walk” to credibility.
Of the ~1400 killed in Gaza during the massacre 255 were policemen – I can’t see that as anything else than an attempt to destroy law and order and push Gaza into total chaos.
I saw footage in real-time of the fresh massacre. It was unbelievable and so horribly sad seeing a shocking mass of young cadets in uniform, all fresh and young faced, all writhing on the blood-soaked ground, passing out, groaning and moaning with eyes either closed or in confused shock: all bleeding to death – one of the dying cadets kept saying in Arabic: “My mother my mother take care of my mother”.
I’ll never forget him.
Neither will the people of the region as they too saw the same footage.
And we wonder why they hate us?
Taxi how did you come to see that? Do you mean you saw video after or did you see the graduation broadcast live?
You know of all the obscene and horrible visuals that came out of that hideous event its the photos of the Gaza policemen that I have found the most haunting. I haven’t seen any video. There were images worse in every way but those police – I just can’t forget it. I think somehow their fate encapsulates the extraordinary power imbalance in the situation. There are no massive signs of destruction, no bomb craters- just that grey ash on the ground. Half of them show no sign of any wounding. What weapon kills like that? It’s like someone just clicked their fingers and the whole lot fell over dead, and in formation. There was no warning. There was no chance of escaping, or of fighting back, or of *survival* even.
Stupidly it reminded me of the climax of Goldfinger where a nerve gas is sprayed around Fort Worth. The entire population falls over – it looks so ridiculous and corny and staged – and just like that police graduation ceremony.
Fort Knox, duh.
Sumud,
I was watching Aljazeera and Press TV live on the internet during Gaza – remember they were the only journalists sending live feeds from Gaza’s ground zero. Within minutes of the massacre, these two stations had live feeds at the scene.
It was gruesome and tragic and came on suddenly as ‘breaking news’. I was in utter shock, having just witnessed young Palestinians taking their last breath. I couldn’t watch any more after that: I followed the news through the written word.
And I decided the following day to cancel my ‘irrelevant’ cable subscription – the mainstream media here hadn’t even uttered a word on the Gaza developments that day – Keith was silent, Rahael was silent and I thought: FUCK ‘EM ALL FOREVER!
I had a similar feeling (not the same at all, not “fuck em all”) when Phil neglected to post on the resumption of shelling of Israeli civilians in December, 2008.
Why is this omitted?
“I had a similar feeling (not the same at all, not “fuck em all”) when Phil neglected to post on the resumption of shelling of Israeli civilians in December, 2008.”
But obviously not over the November 4th Israeli attack that killed 6 Palestinians. But we know where you stand on this Witty. If Hamas had been a real army and not a militia, then the shelling would have been fine with you.
“Why is this omitted?”
Because it was half the story and because the Palestinian, not Israelis were being massacred.
Were you born this intellectually lame and boring?
Or is your current state of mind the tragic result of a long lost weekend back in 1969?
“Why is this omitted?”
One answer might be found here:
link to en.wikipedia.org
>> “Last week I was in Gaza. While I was there I met a group of 20 or so police officers who were undergoing a course in conflict management. They were eager to know whether foreigners felt safer since Hamas had taken over the Government? Indeed we did, we told them.
…
Less than a week later all of these men were dead, killed by an Israeli rocket … in the same police station in the middle of Gaza City that had been used by the British, the Israelis and Fatah during their periods of rule there.”
See what happens when you forget to put green yarn around your police station? I bet they hadn’t even bothered to recite any poetry.
Witty will tell you that they were kille becasue they didn’t try hard enough to convince the Israelis that they wanted peace. In fact, they should have cut to the chase and written a letter of apology for being Palestinian.