‘I will not cooperate with any Israeli institution while Palestinians are denied basic human rights’

Two friends of mine, both professors at prestigious universities, have refused to review research proposals for the BSF (United States-Israel Binational Science Foundation), a high level grant-awarding institution, established by the governments of the United States and Israel in 1972, to support cooperative research projects of mutual interest and for peaceful purposes. (For info on the BSF). The texts of my two friends’ letters are appended below, they gave me permission to post the letters if I left out names of the scientists. Perhaps it will inspire others to do the same. 

1. Dear Prof. X,

I am an admirer of a great many Israeli scientists and will collaborate with them individually by hosting them or collaborating with them on specific research projects. However, I will not cooperate with any Israeli institution while the State of Israel continues to deny basic Palestinian human rights, and I must therefore decline your invitation to review a grant for the Israeli Science Foundation. I, along with many others, believe that we each should do all we can to pressure Israel to change its unlawful behavior. One means of doing that is to work to isolate official Israel from the international community.

Sincerely,

2. Dr. X

Executive Director, United States-Israel Binational Science Foundation/ Jerusalem, Israel

With regret, I decline the invitation to review this grant proposal, the topic of which I regard as interesting and significant. I do this because I do not approve of the State of Israel’s policies which deny basic Palestinian human rights, the evidence of which has become more and more obvious to all in the world. I am sympathetic to a growing world wide movement which argues that the only way to stop unlawful Israeli behavior is to isolate it from the international community. The thought is that you, citizens of Israel, will then work to change your own governments policies.

Withdrawing support of of Israeli science is no exception.

As such, I can no longer in good conscience continue to cooperate with official Israeli institutions, including universities. I will attend no scientific conferences in Israel, and I will not participate as referee in hiring or promotion decisions by Israeli universities, or in the decisions of Israeli funding agencies. 

However, I will continue to collaborate with, and host, Israeli scientific colleagues on an individual basis. 

If you have questions or comments regarding this, please feel free to c/ontact me.

Sincerely,

Z

Posted in BDS

{ 0 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. They think that they are not shunning by the choice of “institutional” boycott, but in fact they are.

    Politics then supercedes their commitment to collegiality.

    • Chaos4700 says:

      So you would have been against BDS of Nazi German scientists, huh?

    • Les says:

      Ethics supercedes their commitment to collegiality.

      • Chaos4700 says:

        Well now you’ve just invited Witty to up ethics in air quotes right alongside justice and verbally attack and debase yet another pillar of modern civilization.

    • eljay says:

      I admire their willingness to continue dealing with the people they respect (imagine that!) and I like how this forces the institutions to put pressure on the Israeli government.

      True, it’s not green yarn and these people haven’t suffered “long-term exile”, but it’s pretty damned admirable just the same. :-)

    • Chu says:

      Profound, Richard…
      How do you do it?

    • MRW says:

      Witty, you fail to delineate the elements correctly.

      Personal ethics and values supersede institutional allegiance, which is as it should be, unless you support the idea that the US scientific community’s first allegiance is to groupthink.

      Collegiality does not supersede justice, human rights, nor right or wrong, by any twisted definition.

    • Shmuel says:

      Collegiality? I must have missed that supreme value in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

      • RoHa says:

        I thought that Finkelsteain was denied tenure because he displayed insufficient “collegiality”, so it must be something terribley important.

        What ever it is.

  2. It’s called momentum.

  3. DavidSiden says:

    Richard let me ask you about these 2 professors.
    Have they protested Hamas destroying dozens of houses in Gaza At gunpoint.
    2 links about this.
    link to backspin.typepad.com
    link to news.bbc.co.uk

    Is this what Rachel Corrie died for?
    Actually yes she did. Human rights movements are for the part a cover for fascist tyranny.
    From the article.
    Hamas wrecks ‘illegal’ Gaza homes
    Hamas, the Palestinian movement which controls the Gaza Strip, has forced residents of a southern town from their homes and demolished their houses.
    The radical Islamist group says people living at the edge of the town of Rafah had built their homes illegally on government land.

    Where is the BDS on this? Its amazing their silence.
    Where is Philip Weiss, Amira Hass, Gideon Levy, and the so called left?
    More proof their hypocrits and just haters of Israel.
    How about this, lets have every Friday a protest against Hamas for these 50 houses they destroyed.

    • MRW says:

      Hamas is the democratically elected government of Gaza. These houses, according to the BBC, were built on government land. What action do you think the City of New York would take if someone were to build a house inside Central Park? How about Battery Park?

    • demize says:

      Tell us how you really feel bubbie.

    • Mooser says:

      “Human rights movements are for the part a cover for fascist tyranny”

      My Goodness Gracious! I never saw that before, but he’s right! Just think about it, all those fascist tyrannies that swept in under cover of human rights movements! Yes sir, when you see a human rights movement, look for the fascist dictator crouching in the wings!

  4. DavidSiden says:

    Where are these same 2 professors on this.

    link to solomonia.com
    Hamas Bear Urges Children to Become Martyrs —

    For all the people that deny that Hamas doesn’t incite their children to die, you must read this article.
    Its truly child abuse at its highest.
    Its time Avi, Philip Weiss, Annie, Citizen, Richard Parker speak out against these Hamas child abusers.

    • MRW says:

      Ha! MEMRI TV bullshit. [Made in Israel] They manufacture that stuff so people like you will hyperventilate. Go comment on the David-Horowitz-wannabe’s site you got this shit from.

      • jonah says:

        MRW

        There is not only MEMRI that provides us with enough evidence about the true intentions of the Palestinians. In fact, MEMRI and also PMW refer mainly and directly to Palestinian and Arab sources such as Al-Aqsa TV (Hamas), PA TV (Fatah) or Al-Manar TV (Hezbollah) and many many other media in the Arab and Islamic world. And they are pretty professional, despite your trivial attempt to disqualify them as “b***”. But if you, in your preconception, don’t want to trust them why not have a look directly with your own eyes at the truth of the Palestinian original sin, the will to destroy Israel at any cost and anyway, even if they are about to start new peace talks. This is the official Fatah-webside, in the english traslation (yes, google allows us to read the english traslation from Arabic, didn’t you know yet?):

        link to translate.google.ch

        (click on Fatah, Part III of the Rules of Procedure of the Fatah movement ( مبادئ وأهداف وأسلوب حركة فتح ) (Principles, objectives and method of Fatah movement)

        “Basic method of the Fatah movement
        المادة (17): الثورة الشعبية المسلحة هي الطريق الحتمي الوحيد لتحرير فلسطين.
        Article (17): an armed popular revolution is the only way is imperative for the Liberation of Palestine.

        المادة (18): الاعتماد على الشعب الفلسطيني كطليعة وأساس وعلى الأمة العربية كشريك في المعركة وتحقيق التلاحم الفعلي بين الأمة العربية والشعب العربي الفلسطيني باشراك الجماهير العربية في المعركة من خلال الجبهة العربية الموحدة.
        Article (18): dependence on the vanguard of the Palestinian people and the basis of the Arab nation as a partner in the battle to achieve effective synergies between the Arab nation and the Arab Palestinian people by involving the Arab masses in the battle through the united Arab front.

        المادة (19): الكفاح المسلح استراتيجية وليس تكتيكاً والثورة المسلحة للشعب العربي الفلسطيني عامل حاسم في معركة التحرير وتصفية الوجود الصهيوني ولن يتوقف هذا الكفاح الا بالقضاء على الكيان الصهيوني وتحرير فلسطين.
        Article (19): armed struggle is not a strategy and tactic of the armed revolution and the Arab Palestinian people a critical factor in the liberation struggle and liquidation of the Zionist entity will not stop this fight, but the elimination of the Zionist entity and the Liberation of Palestine. ”

        Still all b***, MRW?

        • jonah says:

          I forgot to quote the interesting Article (12) in the same Fatah-charter:

          total liberation of Palestine and the liquidation of the Zionist entity economically, politically and militarily and culturally.

        • MRW says:

          I’m partial to Shmuel’s assessments on Hamas and Fatah, Jonah. He’s Israeli, he grew up there, and he was in in the IDF.

          He also happens to be fucking smart, funny, and fair.

        • RoHa says:

          “total liberation of Palestine and the liquidation of the Zionist entity economically, politically and militarily and culturally. ”

          Since the Zionist entity is evil in conception, evil in creation, and evil in conduct, liquidation of the entity seems appropriate.

        • jonah says:

          RoHa

          “Since the Zionist entity is evil in conception, evil in creation, and evil in conduct, liquidation of the entity seems appropriate. ”

          So why are you surprise and why do you cry when Israel defends herself against this murderous ideology and its deeds you admit to agree with? This is incitement to genocide, HoHa.

          And let’s be clear: the quoted article 12 constitutes a integral part of the basic Principles, objectives and method of Fatah movement. Can’t imagine what does Hamas & Co. aim at.

        • RoHa says:

          I am not surprised that Israel defends itself. When did evil ever give in lightly?

          But how is calling for the disbanding of a state an incitement to genocide?

        • jonah says:

          I understand now the true sincere goals of the Palestinians:

          they want to destroy the economy, the istitutions, the army and the culture of the state of Israel, but the inhabitants of Israel – Jewish people – will continue to stay and live there under the new democratic and peaceful Palestinian-Islamic rule without any fear that a single hair of their head may be harmed.

          Thank you RoHa for the profound insight.

        • RoHa says:

          Glad to have helped.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          Funny how you can replace “Germany” with “Israel” and “Jews” with “Palestinians” in jonah’s rhetoric and — lo and behold! — it’s recognizable for its earlier historical precursor.

    • Les says:

      Where are you on Israel’s occupation and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians?

    • Chu says:

      Failed Messiah or the Jewish Press may be your style.
      Rubashkin trial is delayed:
      link to failedmessiah.typepad.com

      Free Rubashkin! Free Pollard!!@

    • Shingo says:

      “I forgot to quote the interesting Article (12) in the same Fatah-charter:
      total liberation of Palestine and the liquidation of the Zionist entity economically, politically and militarily and culturally.”

      Which reads like the Likud Charter, only any mention of liquidation of the Palestinian entity is redundant.

  5. DavidSiden says:

    MRW are you blind to the Palestinians hate?
    Ofcourse you want to deny this.
    Thats what the left’s agenda is.

    • Mooser says:

      “MRW are you blind to the Palestinians hate?”

      Okay, Dave, why don’t you tell us why the Palestinians shouldn’t dislike, or even hate, Israel and the Zionists?
      Or is that just not allowed?

    • potsherd says:

      What often surprises me is the willingness of so many Palestinians to make peace and reconcile with their oppressors.

      I’ll just bet that our Daniel Pipes disciple here is all full of love and forgiveness for the Nazis.

  6. DavidSiden says:

    link to palwatch.org…20May%2017.pdf

    29 pages, PDF: A summary of how the Palestinians honor mass murder and incite more of the same.
    This is who the crazy leftists on here support.

    • Howard says:

      Of course the Israelis would never do anything like this would they?

      British anger at terror celebration

      ‘The rightwingers, including Binyamin Netanyahu, the former Prime Minister, are commemorating the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of British rule, that killed 92 people and helped to drive the British from Palestine. They have erected a plaque outside the restored building, and are holding a two-day seminar with speeches and a tour of the hotel by one of the Jewish resistance fighters involved in the attack.

      link to timesonline.co.uk

      And don’t forget about Baruch Goldstein, an American-born Jewish Israeli physician who perpetrated the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in the city of Hebron, killing 29 Muslims at prayer there and wounding another 150. His gravesite has become a pilgrimage site for “Israeli extremists”; a plaque near the grave reads “To the holy Baruch Goldstein, who gave his life for the Jewish people, the Torah and the nation of Israel.” At least 10,000 people have visited the grave since the massacre.

      link to en.wikipedia.org

    • Mooser says:

      DavidSiden, if you don’t mind, what’s the left-right connection here? How is a critical stance on Israel’s actions and intransigence related to, I don’t know, single-payer medical insurance schemes, or enviournmental regulation? Are yopu willing to go all the way and say that those who condemn Israel are the same people who would make the state owner of all industries, or do away with private property entirely?
      Or do you basically see human rights as “crazy leftist” concerns?

      All of you guys have been slinging this “leftist” slur. Whagt, if anything, is behind it?

  7. DavidSiden says:

    Here’s the right link, link above on 14 is wrong.
    link to palwatch.org

    • potsherd says:

      Do you actually suppose that anyone is paying attention to your propaganda?

    • David Samel says:

      So, you claim that Palestinians name public squares and schools after mass murderers? And what of Israelis who elect as prime minister people who have far more dead bodies on their ledger? Sharon himself led the infamous 1953 raid on Qibya that murdered 69 innocent civilians in the middle of the night, and 30 years later he supervised the killing of tens of thousands in Lebanon. What is your point, anyway? That Palestinians do not deserve equal rights in the land of their birth with people from Brooklyn who have superior ancestry? That those who support equal rights and deny Jewish supremacy necessarily support attacks on Israeli civilians? Worst of all, you cite an organization dedicated to smearing Palestinians and defending Israeli killing of them. We’re supposed to be impressed?

  8. Howard says:

    I don’t know if this troll is worth responding to but I don’t want him to go unanswered. If he thinks that Israeli Jews possess some innate moral superiority, over the Palestinians perhaps the teachings of a settler Rabbi in a recent book, “The complete guide to killing non-Jews” might open his mind a bit, although I doubt it. The book appears to have received warm recommendations from right-wing elements, including recommendations from important rabbis.

    A sampling:

    “In any situation in which a non-Jew’s presence endangers Jewish lives, the non-Jew may be killed even if he is a righteous Gentile and not at all guilty for the situation that has been created.”

    Or this gem:

    “There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults.”

    “In addition, the children of the leader may be harmed in order to apply pressure to him. If attacking the children of a wicked ruler will influence him not to behave wickedly, they may be harmed.”

    See link to coteret.com

    • MRW says:

      And to think this book was handed out to the IDF in the Gaza massacre as a policy to follow.

      Of course, the Rabbi has simply quoted or rewritten the Sanhedrin portion of the Talmud, the part the goyim were never supposed to see, and never did before the net. Just vile prehistoric thinking, like institutionalized medieval Catholic Inquisition bullshit.

      Except this is 2010.

      • annie says:

        MRW this book was handed out to the IDF in the Gaza massacre as a policy to follow

        my recollection is ‘the king’s torah’ (the baby killing book) haaretz didn’t hit the bookshelves til sometime last fall way after the massacre of gaza. i did hear about an inflammatory pamphlet handed out to the idf before going to battle. was this the same script? haaretz reports the book is 230 pages.

        Yet, both Metzger and his Sephardic counterpart, Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar, have declined to comment on the book, which debuted in November, while other prominent rabbis have endorsed it – among them, the son of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, Sephardic Jewry’s preeminent leader. Also, despite the precedent set by previous Israeli attorneys general in the last decade and a half to file criminal charges against settler rabbis who publish commentaries supporting violence against non-Jews, Attorney General Menachem Mazuz has so far remained mum about “The King’s Torah.”

        “Sometimes the public arena deals with the phenomenon and things become settled by themselves,” Justice Ministry spokesman Moshe Cohen told the Forward.

        A coalition of religious Zionist groups, the “Twelfth of Heshvan,” named after the Hebrew date of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin’s assassination, has asked Israel’s Supreme Court to order Mazuz to confiscate the books and arrest its authors.

        “You open the book, and you feel that you read a halachic book. And it’s a trap,” said Gadi Gvaryahu, a religious Jewish educator who heads the coalition. It was, in fact, “a guidebook [on] how to kill,” he charged.

        this rest of the article includes some chilling factoids.

    • eljay says:

      When “we” (the Israelis, the US, the West, the “good guys”) hate and kill and instill hatred and murder in others, it’s righteous, it’s noble, it’s justifiable.

      When “they”(the Palestinians, the Ay-rabs, the “terrrrrists”) do it, it’s evil, it’s barbaric, it’s “existentially threatening”. Clearly, they hate us for our freedoms.

      I’m sure that Mr. Witty will soon appear to chide DavidSiden for condemning Hamas instead of extending to them the other end of the length of the green yarn of peace and friendship which he holds in his hand.

  9. GreatLeo says:

    Israel boycotts Palestinian academia all the time, by preventing students from leaving, preventing Noam Chomsky from lecturing at Bir Zeit. It also boycotts Palestinian academia by shelling schools and killing students.

    But heaven forbid that any Israeli’s feelings get hurt by a boycott.

  10. olive says:

    Easily one of the most disturbing photographs I have ever seen:

    link to mpacuk.org

    Its pictures like this that do nothing to lessen Arab anti-Jewish sentiment.

    • annie says:

      that is horrible olive. i found it on the WSJ picture of the week page. much clearer. i am surprised WSJ is carrying this photo.

      • David Samel says:

        Yes, the photo is disgraceful. But did you notice the WSJ caption? It’s hard to put any positive spin on this, but they manage to soften what is obviously reprehensible taunting by Israelis to a “Palestinian woman … arguing with Israelis.” Isn’t it interesting how much this picture tells? Even though no one is physically hurt, its story is as graphic as photos of Palestinian dead and wounded.

        • annie says:

          david, phil has put this on the front page. i think you should make the same comment over there, it is a powerful message.

        • demize says:

          Visually it is a perfect semiotic analogy to what Palestine has been contending with vis a vis The State of Isreal.

      • potsherd says:

        The comments are almost all about this photo.

    • demize says:

      These guys are punks. Would it be wrong to say I’d love to kick the shit out of them?

  11. Amar says:

    Just last week I visited a well-known high school in Jerusalem. A good many of the students I spoke to told me appalling things. They said: When we are soldiers, we will kill old people, women and children without giving it a thought. They said: We will expel them, we will put them on planes and fly them to Iraq. We will fly hundreds of thousands of them. Millions. And most of the students in the audience applauded those opinions. They supported them even when I pointed out that that is how people talked 60 years ago in Europe.

    Avraham Burg, former Speaker of the Knesset:
    On the eve of destruction

    • jonah says:

      Amar

      You have of course some evidence for you story, isn’t it?

      • annie says:

        jonah, the reason haaretz interviewed burg is because he was at one time one of the fastest rising political stars in israel, i think the youngest member of the knesset or something. he is an orthodox jew and was speaker of the house. if you choose to challenge the integrity of burg, go ahead but doesn’t it go without saying we don’t have ‘evidence’ or the ability to fact check every allegation made by everyone who’s interviewed by haaretz.

        • jonah says:

          Sorry annie, but Avraham Burg sounds to me not really balanced in his opinion. He speaks out of fear about Israel’s future and he tends to exagerate, to use too many hyperboles for his own uneasiness. He falls into and displays a nearly hysterical Israeli self-castigation that pervades throughout the interview and his thinking.

          If we want to be a bit more equidistant than him we have to admit that both the Israelis and the Palestinians are in the current status quo trying to pull the robe on their side, both can be the winners and the losers, on both sides is fault and both need to find a compromise. Not only Israel. I can understand the Palestinians’ frustration for the ongoing settlements, but on the other side I can understand Lieberman too when he says that Israel’s gestures to the Palestinians are met with ‘slaps in the face’.

          There must be a real convergence. As long as the Palestinians keep only claiming without giving some strong gestures of reconciliation and show a true desire of peace, the position of Israel will necessarily remain locked. This is not hasbara, it’s the simple the truth. Try to understand.

        • “There must be a real convergence. As long as the Palestinians keep only claiming without giving some strong gestures of reconciliation and show a true desire of peace, the position of Israel will necessarily remain locked. This is not hasbara, it’s the simple the truth. Try to understand.”

          “That dull knife just ain’t cuttin’ it.
          Just talkin’ loud, and sayin’ nothin’
          And sayin’ nothin’
          And sayin’ nothin’…”
          - James Brown

          “This is not hasbara”

          Epimenides paradox :
          This is not a lie.

          “All Cretans are liars.” (Epimenides was Cretan)
          So was he lying or telling the truth?
          link to en.wikipedia.org

        • Shingo says:

          “I can understand the Palestinians’ frustration for the ongoing settlements, but on the other side I can understand Lieberman too when he says that Israel’s gestures to the Palestinians are met with ’slaps in the face’.”

          Israel’s gestures to the Palestinians have been little more than giving them the right to choose the size of their own open air prison or offering them a small percentage of the proceeds from the sale of the property that was stolen from them.

          “As long as the Palestinians keep only claiming without giving some strong gestures of reconciliation and show a true desire of peace, the position of Israel will necessarily remain locked.”

          They did.  For 4 months in 2008, the Palestinians stuck to a ceasefire that Israel broke.

          They have offered a long ceasefire with Israel, which Israel rejected becasue as Tzipi Livni  put it, it was “not in Israel’s strategic interests”

        • yonira says:

          They did. For 4 months in 2008, the Palestinians stuck to a ceasefire that Israel broke.

          not exactly:

          37 projectiles fired into Israel during the ‘cease fire’

          link to en.wikipedia.org

        • They just keep coming out of the woodwork…

          The graph fails to specify who fired the projectiles.
          Do you seriously think that Hamas controls every single projectile fired out of Gaza?
          Do you know what a qassam rocket is?

        • yonira says:

          So was/is there anarchy in Gaza with no government to control the people there?

        • yonira says:

          They just keep coming out of the woodwork…,

          someone needs to counter the circle-jerk of lies and deception, aka the Mondoweiss comment section.

        • Shingo says:

          Israrl itself admits none of those rockets were fired by Hsmas znd that Hamad were arresting militants who were firing then, yet Israel claimed it went into Gaza to stop Hamas firing rockets.

        • “someone needs to counter”
          Isn’t that what you’re trying to do?

          “the circle-jerk of lies and deception”
          Watch it, you’re losing your temper, that doesn’t help.
          I personally don’t mind being contradicted if you can show me that I’m wrong.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          The false Jew continues to bear false witness. I wish I could say I was surprised. That certificate there? Not worth the ink that was wasted printing your name on it, yonira.

          Reigniting Violence: How do Ceasefires End?

          You know, I merely have to keep re-posting that over and over again, because I know I can always rely on you to have no response other than a frothing at the mouth attack on my sexual orientation to divert attention from your embarrassing failure to forward a lie.

        • yonira says:

          which rocket are you referring to? Israel went into Gaza during Cast Lead to stop Hamas rockets.

          Israel broke the cease fire Nov 4th because of a tunnel being built by Hamas which was deemed a threat.

          The Israeli military described the operation as a “pinpoint” raid to destroy a 250-metre tunnel that it said the hardline Palestinian movement was digging under the border to try to kidnap an Israeli soldier – as it did in the summer of 2006.

          link to timesonline.co.uk

        • “So was/is there anarchy in Gaza with no government to control the people there? “
          I have the impression that the Gazans on the whole have been remarkably calm and patient considering the conditions under which they have been living, but you’d have to ask someone who knows the place better.
          And “anarchy” doesn’t necessarily mean “chaos”, just for the record.

        • yonira says:

          Chaos, can you actually add to the debate, rather than ad hominem attacks and then claiming to a victim? The huffington post expose doesn’t count, you’ve over played that card.

        • yonira says:

          while were at it, could you explain this false Jew thing, or stop saying it please?

          I am asking you man to man, to explain what you mean, to tell me what a false Jew is.

        • Shingo says:

          “Israel went into Gaza during Cast Lead to stop Hamas rockets.”

          No they went into Gaza to start a war on Nov 4th.

          No one, not even you, believes the BS about the tunnel being a threat to Israel. 

          “The Israeli military described the operation as a “pinpoint” raid to destroy a 250-metre tunnel that it said the hardline Palestinian movement was digging under the border to try to kidnap an Israeli soldier”

          It’s quite a feat of mental gymnastic to accept the absurd rationale that it was more convenient to conduct a raid on Gaza, and threaten a return to hostilities, than it was to move the soldiers out of harms way.

          “as it did in the summer of 2006″

          In 2006, Israel started that conflict too by kidnapping 2 Palestinians from Gaza city the day before Shalit’s capture.

          it’s j the same old theme, where Israle justify the earlier actions on the basis of  events that follow those attacks.

          Surely, not even you are that dishonest Yoni.
           

        • Chaos4700 says:

          A false Jew is someone who converted to it barely five years ago because it opens doors for careers and social climbing and such, but then doesn’t live by the tenets of Judaism at all.

          At least your grandfathers fought for ideals both American and Jewish. You are neither, yonira, not in any meaningful sense. You’re just a foul-mouthed brutish white rural hick who decided he needed something to set himself apart from the other dead-enders loitering amongst the amber waves of grain.

          You ignored the link that made you out to be a liar. Nice try, but we’ve already toppled your idiotic sham of an argument.

        • yonira says:

          LOL, can you tell me about the career advancements and social climbing? I’d like to take advantage of that.

          Chaos tell me, did my being a fake jew help me when i convinced Bush to invade Iraq or when I caused the Holocaust? I am still trying to wrap my head around all of your accusations. You blamed me for global warming once too didn’t you?

        • yonira says:

          Shingo, what are you talking about man? I am honestly having trouble following. Israel broke the ceasefire on november 4th, and invaded Gaza in December because of the Hamas rocket fire. Here i’ll link to Chaos’ notorious ‘answer for everything’ link. I am sure you’ve seen it before.

          link to israelpolitik.org

          Everyone thank Chaos for the data I linked to above!

        • yonira says:

          those are quite the accusations Chaos, well you continue with your bullshit accusations and I’ll do the same. or we can act like civil human beings and quit accusing each other of things we know not to be fact.

          its up to you, can you be the bigger man?

        • Chaos4700 says:

          Israel fired first, killed six people and ended the ceasefire and you still blame the “donkey-painting rocket-making” Gazans for being slaughtered under a hail of thousands of bombs and white phosphorous shells.

          The Nazi comparisons really write themselves around yourself at this point, Herr yonira. Keep laying on the glee about Gleiwitz.

        • Chaos4700 says:

          its up to you, can you be the bigger man?

          That goes without saying. On every measure.

        • yonira says:

          Chaos, why the obsession with my penis and Nazis?

        • Israel broke the cease fire Nov 4th because of a tunnel being built by Hamas which was deemed a threat.

          Well, Shingo gave a good answer (as usual), so I don’t need to respond, and I’m sure this has been discussed to death already here (for people like you!).
          As to why an extremely powerful, armed-to-the-teeth, US-backed state attacks a place like Gaza –

          1. Discredit Hamas totally by radicalizing it, and by destroying the Gazan infrastructure (thereby “proving” that Abbas and the Authority are the only “legitimate” representatives of the Palestinians, and that Hamas is somehow bringing violence on their own population)
          2. Stop the rocket fire.
          3. Show the world that Israel and the IDF were capable of going totally berserk, thus restoring Israel’s “deterrence capacity”.
          4. Possibly striking fear into the hearts of Palestinians, hoping it will provoke some exodus of the population out of the WB (like the settlers are doing in Hebron) and into neighboring Arab countries? (speculation)

        • Chaos4700 says:

          I’m an artist. When I see two things that are metaphors of each other, I am naturally inclined to make a gestalt.

          Nazi Germany was desperately self conscious about compensating for size, too, after all.

          Oh, and by the way? Totally hasn’t escaped notice that you’re dodging away from your fake, idiotic argument. Israel broke the cease fire and went on to slaughter a hundred fold over Hamas’ actions in the same period, conservatively. I understand you want to David-Duke those facts into oblivion, but it ain’t working.

        • Shmuel says:

          jonah,

          Neat psychoanalytical dismissal of a heavyweight like Burg.

          If we want to be a bit more equidistant

          I would hope that we would want to be fair, not “equidistant”, which presupposes the equal validity of all positions, rather than the existence of objective facts.

  12. demize says:

    What is blockade but the most severe form of boycott? It is a boycott that iothers are compelled to honor. And its Avraham Burg’s story and the link is right there you aren’t to bright are ya?

  13. Dear Jonah,
    please help me to understand. What gestures? What slaps in the face?

    Israel has not made any meaningful gestures. The level of oppression within the West Bank remains extremely high. Construction of illegal settlements remains at an all time high, with a marked expansion in occupied Jerusalem. “new construction” is limited, but not to the point that actual construction was reduced. No colonies have been removed, not even those that are self defined as illegal even to Israel. There was a minor reduction in roadblocks, but the overwhelming majority remain in place. Murder, kidnapping and low level abuse of palestinians has not been reduced. Uplifting of water has not slowed. Fencing off of westbank farm land and villages has not slowed.

    In contrast, the current palestinian leadership have accepted the loss of the majority of their state, got firm agreement for a wider peace for Israel with all arab states, if a deal can be achieved, prevented violent protests at the cost of being seen as major quislings, and are working hard to establish the institutions of a modern state. How is this not an outstanding effort by an occupied nation?

    • eljay says:

      >> How is this not an outstanding effort by an occupied nation?

      The Palestinian leadership forgot the most important thing: Green yarn on the green line. According to Mr. Witty, that is the magical solution to all of the Palestinians’ woes.

    • jonah says:

      hi southernobserver,

      “In contrast, the current palestinian leadership have accepted the loss of the majority of their state, got firm agreement for a wider peace for Israel with all arab states, if a deal can be achieved, prevented violent protests at the cost of being seen as major quislings, and are working hard to establish the institutions of a modern state. How is this not an outstanding effort by an occupied nation?”

      so can you please explain me why do the moderate Palestinians (let alone the radicals) keep on force in May 2010 those controversial articles of their Charter which explicitly and openly call for the “liquidation of the Zionist entity”.

      link to translate.google.ch (Fatah, Part III of the Rules of Procedure of the Fatah movement ( مبادئ وأهداف وأسلوب حركة فتح ) (Principles, objectives and method of Fatah movement)

      Is this compatible with their hard work to establish a modern viable state that should live side by side in peace and security with the “Zionist entity”, commonly called Israel? Can someone explain me?

      • Shingo says:

        ”so can you please explain me why do the moderate Palestinians (let alone the radicals) keep on force in May 2010 those controversial articles of their Charter which explicitly and openly call for the “liquidation of the Zionist entity”.”

        Can you explain why the Likud Charter states that the establishment of a Palestinian state will constitute a fundamental and substantive violation of the agreements with the State of Israel and why the the government will adopt immediate stringent measures in the event of such a declaration?

        Can someone explain me?

        • jonah says:

          Because you can’t read or you read selectively, Shingo.

          The exact wording in the Likud charter is:

          Palestinian “Declaration of a State.
          A unilateral Palestinian declaration of the establishment of a Palestinian state will constitute a fundamental and substantive violation of the agreements with the State of Israel and the scuttling of the Oslo and Wye accords. The government will adopt immediate stringent measures in the event of such a declaration. ”

          If the Palestinian try to force on Israel a UNILATERAL declaration of the stablishment of a Palestinian state without a durable peace agreement reached through direct negotiations (that the Palestinians are up till now trying to avoid), Israel will adopt the necessary coutermeasures.

          You can not afford that a unilaterally declared new-born Palestinian state in the West Bank becomes a nest of extremists and terrorists as it did in Gaza.

        • Shingo says:

          Jonah,

          You’re simply a hypocrite.

          “If the Palestinian try to force on Israel a UNILATERAL declaration of the stablishment of a Palestinian state without a durable peace agreement reached through direct negotiations (that the Palestinians are up till now trying to avoid), Israel will adopt the necessary coutermeasures.”

          Didn’t Israel force on the Palestinians a UNILATERAL declaration of the establishment of an Israeli state without a durable peace agreement reached through direct negotiations (that the israelis are up till now trying to avoid).

          The countermeasures of course, are a thinly veiled code word for shoah after all. 
           
          “You can not  afford that a unilaterally declared new-born Palestinian state in the West Bank becomes a nest of extremists and terrorists  as it did in Gaza.”

          Yes, and black men can’t be trusted to run their own affairs right KKK?

        • jonah says:

          Shingo,

          I’m realist.

          “Didn’t Israel force on the Palestinians a UNILATERAL declaration of the establishment of an Israeli state without a durable peace agreement reached through direct negotiations”.

          No, she didn’t. Israel made her declaration on the basis of UN-Resolution 181 – International Law! -, the Palestinian and Arab Leaders rejected and preferred to declare war to the new-born Jewish state instead of declare the establishment of a Palestinian state.

          Countermeasures mean the prevention of deeds that harm the security of the state of Israel, such as terroristic attacks and war.

          “Yes, and black men can’t be trusted to run their own affairs right KKK?”

          Why all these para-state militias on Palestinian side? A future state must have one police force, not a dozen of separate armed groups. The Palestinians must work hard to be trusted. That’s all.
          But here is the problem, indeed.

        • Here we go again with the BS…Yaaaaaaaaaaaawn…

        • Shingo says:

          “No, she didn’t. Israel made her declaration on the basis of UN-Resolution 181 – International Law! -, the Palestinian and Arab Leaders rejected and preferred to declare war to the new-born Jewish state instead of declare the establishment of a Palestinian s”‘

          False. Israel rejected Resolution 181 and has always rejected international law, which dictates that refugges be allowd to return to their homes and that it is illegal to buil settlements on occupied land.

          “Countermeasures mean the prevention of deeds that harm the security of the state of Israel, such as terroristic attacks and war.”

          Or, as Tzipi Livni told us, that prevent Israle from stealing all the land from Jordan to the sea.

          “Why all these para-state militias on Palestinian side?”‘

          How would you describe the Irgun, the Hagana and Stern Gangs?

          “A future state must have one police force, not a dozen of separate armed groups.”

          So given that Israel was founded by the above terrosit groups (seperate armed groups), are you suggesting that Israel is illegitimate?

          “The Palestinians must work hard to be trusted. That’s all.”

          How convenient that it is Israel, who drove out the Pelstrinians as they had planned to, while pretending to accept the UN Partion, who gets to decide if teh Palestinians can be trusted.

          “But here is the problem, indeed. ”

          Yes, it’s called Zionism.

        • jonah says:

          Take a coffee, thankgodi, it needs to be repeated again and again for deaf ears.

  14. DavidSiden says:

    southernobserver, maybe your left wing brain forgets, their was no peace from 48 to 67. What was the reason then?
    Read the PLO charter in 64, 3 years before the 67 war.
    The Palestinians have been rejectionists for 70 years.
    Israel offered the Palestinians a state, something no Arab or Islamic country ever did, even though no Palestinian state ever existed in history.

    • Shingo says:

      “southernobserver, maybe your left wing brain forgets, their was no peace from 48 to 67. What was the reason then?”

      Yes, what was left unresolved from the 1948 war that could have prevented peace? Nothing to do with 750,000 Palestinian refugees, or the Israeli attacks on Jordan and Egypt at the time I suppose?

      “Read the PLO charter in 64, 3 years before the 67 war.”

      Yes, and Israel had no problem dealing with them.

      ”The Palestinians have been rejectionists for 70 years.”

      So has Israel. After all, Israel never impemented teh UN partition.
      Meanwhile, Israle has been stealing land and ethnically cleansing for 70 years.

      ”Israel offered the Palestinians a state, something no Arab or Islamic country ever did, even though no Palestinian state ever existed in history. ‘

      No, they offered them a 90% of the 22% of their land and divided into basntustans making it impossible for any state to exist.

      ”even though no Palestinian state ever existed in history.”

      Nor did an Israeli one.