Update: Here is Lee's full hour of footage:
Update: Iara Lee has posted 14 minutes of her footage from the Mavi Marmara:
Here is the description from her website Cultures of Resistance:
On the night of Sunday, May 30, showing a terrifying disregard for human life, Israeli naval forces surrounded and boarded ships sailing to bring humanitarian aid to the blockaded Gaza Strip. On the largest ship, the Mavi Marmara, Israeli commandos opened fire on civilian passengers, killing at least 9 passengers and wounding dozens more. Others are still missing. The final death toll is yet to be determined. Cultures of Resistance director Iara Lee was aboard the besieged ship and has since returned home safely.
Despite the Israeli government’s thorough efforts to confiscate all footage taken during the attack, Iara Lee was able to retain some of her video recordings. [Above] is 15 minutes of raw footage from the moments leading up to and during the Israeli commandos’ assault on the Mavi Marmara.
Filmmaker Iara Lee on Democracy Now! this morning. Lee will be holding a press conference at the UN later today to share all her footage.
I watched these few minutes, and it really shows the absurdity of the “we were ambushed” line.
But it also makes me think: Why even demand an investigation? The U.S. should say, “Never mind the investigation. Just return the cameras and the unedited footage to their owners.”
I brought that up when the US announced it prefers for Israel to handle the investigation. I wrote then that now the IDF had a reason to hold onto all electronic equipment – it evidence for a US-approved investigation.
Is any media other than Democracy Now covering the UN presser?
Give the evidence to the UN
My comments were about the short part on DN, not the longer one, which I haven’t watched.
I think it’s Edward Peck who said that (really not sure) but there’s no need for an investigation, just look at the fact : boarding a boat in international waters and killing people is a crime. Point.
I spent quite a lot of time sifting through machine translations of Turkish press in the days after the raid, trying to find out who these Turkish victims were. And even that minimal degree of familiarity with them makes these images difficult to watch.
The man being carried below decks, barely alive and bleeding heavily, at 37:51 thru 38:04 (repeated at 43:08), is Çetin Topçuoglu, the former Turkish taekwondo champion and coach of Turkey’s national team. The distressed looking lady following him as he is carried below is his wife, Çigdem. This is them with their gold medals at the World Taekwondo Expo in 2008.
Look how they adore each other.
In her first interview after she was repatriated, Çigdem Topçuoglu described how her husband was shot and eventually bled to death as she sat with him trying to comfort him. She did it very matter of factly, because she would never give the Israelis the satisfaction of making her cry.
Two days ago, she was mentioned peripherally by a translator who was interviewed in Haaretz by Amira Hass, and who described the experience of translating between the ship’s passengers and IDF interviewers. The translator described one woman, something to do with taekwondo, who was being questioned about why she was trying to conceal a cellphone. And it turned out the cellphone was her husband’s, and she wanted to keep it as a souvenir of him, because he was one of the dead on the ship. And everyone had been surprised, because till she hadn’t let on that they had killed her husband.
At her husband’s funeral, she and their son, Aytek, gave a speech that nobody is to cry, but must be happy because her husband is home, and at least his death is making people wake up to what is going on in Palestine. And the pictures of the funeral are of them smiling for the guests. They’ve already both volunteered to be on the next Turkish ship to Gaza.
She has shown enormous dignity, but in our discourse she just an “al qaeda terrorist”, because Israel knows it can get away with smearing people like that when it is lying to an American audience about dead Muslims.
fix typo: “She did it very matter of factly, because she said she would never give the Israelis the satisfaction of making her cry”
I hate how propagandists use these kinds of images as “proof” that Muslims don’t care about their dead as much as we do. I’m sure she broke down as soon as she was alone, and I’m sure she feels an unspeakable ache every evening when he’s not next to her.
We mistake their strength for apathy. Most Westerners — most people who’ve never found themselves on the wrong end of the guns andbombs — will never understand what you have to do to survive in a world where racism and injustice and vilification and violence are heaped on you for no good reason, and you have nothing but dignity to fight back.
Yes, even as I was writing that comment I was thinking that there would be people who would look at those pictures and crow “See they hate us more than they love life!” etc etc.
I think you can see from the glimpse of her in the video just how she really feels about the loss of her husband.
i was reading one woman’s interview yesterday (excuse me i can’t recall who..perhaps from scotland) she said as they were held in detention they called in one turkish woman whose husband had died on the flotilla, she said they had wrapped him and she had said her goodbye to him onboard. they called her in and showed he photos of her dead husband to identify and his body had been left outside exposed for days and was bloated almost beyond recognition. she threw up and collapsed. she said the cruelty was unbelievable.
Being from a muslim family and having lost my father not so long ago, I can tell you that it’s in our culture not to cry and mourn for too loong. It’s said to be bad luck for the dead person to shed tears in front of his body. In addition, we have this concept that is really powerful : mektoub (“it was written”). Everything that happens is God’s will, and you can’t fight against it. I know there’s almost the same thing in Christianity (“God works in mysterious ways”, etc…) but to muslims, mektoub is more than pure destiny : you can’t fight it, so you don’t have to be sad, you must be joyous that it has happened. In the case of a dead relative, you should be happy that he/she is know free of the burden of life and corpse.
That idea figures prominently in the movie Lawrence of Arabia. The Arab characters keep saying such and such things “are written.” Lawrence, having accomplished an extraordinary feat, says in a thirst-parched voice, “Nothing is written.”
Then there are the lines in Fitzgerald’s translation of the Rubaiyat:
Extraordinary interview. I watched this clip with deep suspicion, thinking that Iara Lee had filched bits from the original Mavi Marmara livestream.
She hasn’t done so. Her video is very different (if not quite so exciting – you can’t be on the frontline with multiple cameras all the time). She did smuggle it out, and it’s strong evidence aginst the IDF propaganda.
I’m not really sure what this footage provides that others don’t? We’ll have to wait for the full hour of unedited tape that she has. But based on the democracy now interview it doesn’t seem like there is anything different. it’s new, as Richard says, but it doesn’t shed new light on things. Or am I missing something?
Twin Cities Indymedia just twitted that they’ll host the HD footage from Iara Lee in about 30 minutes.
link to twitter.com
There are rumors that footage of an Israeli commando shooting an activist in the body then rushing to him and shooting him further in the head at close range, execution style – ie shoot to kill, not to disable and arrest.
Just goes to show you that you can get frisked by the berserk gestapos yet still manage to smuggle shit through right under their noses.
Fucking bastard IDF – I really hate them, low and high-ranking file!
Here is Iara Lee’s video :
link to tc.indymedia.org
Hum, I’ve watched the video, seems to be edited. Iara said on Democracy Now there was a whole hour of footage, this video is only 15/16 minutes.
One thing though, what is this list of people ? Anyone speaking Hebrew care to translate ?
Images of the list grabbed from Lee’s video here : link to img816.imageshack.us
its something like a 20 year old algerian, 10 members of parliament and 4 something i can’t quite read it.
Here’s an interview from Grit TV. It’s a first hand account of what happened on the Freedom Flotilla from retired U.S Military Colonel and U.S. State Department Official, Ann Wright.
link to grittv.org
More GRITtv
It is yesterday ‘s news. Nobody cares.
Just like no one will care when you expire. What are you now, 192 years old?
Don’t be so juvenile!
Ohh, but you are soooo wrong, Rachel. You think its first-line news. But this is the real news in the making.
As Robert Mackey, ex-military and strategic war planner, pointed out last week:
And people far more sophisticated about news and intelligence and the upcoming international investigations of this event know that this is gold.
There is not a word about it in the Toronto Star, on CNN, and on BBC.
Here it is all about the G 20 summit and the BP clean up.
Well, saying that CNN and the BBC are not talking about it is a sign of its non-importance isn’t playing for you, you know.
Well, its in the Victoria paper. All those grandparents in Canada’s Miami telling their grandkids about what Kevin Neish is saying.
link to timescolonist.com
Footage viewable in Washington State and Vancouver.
“B.C. activist took photos of deadly Gaza flotilla clash”
link to vancouversun.com
STFU rachel you fucking creep!
Taxi! Be careful, your blood pressure!
rachel! Be careful, your mascara!
rachel you twit, I set you up so you would say exactly that you fucking moron! I so predicted your EXACT WORDS even!
I figured you said what you said so callously cause you wanna be spanked by an angry hand.
You just love the abuse don’t you?
Well the Turks and the Palestinians don’t enjoy your brand of casual sadism/masochism you craven boot licker!
All you ever do is come round here drunk and demanding to play your stupid tic-tac-toe game while everyone else here is sober and already playing chess.
So STFU and fuck off – your contributions suck eggs!
Taxi,
is that how you treat all women?
Well what do you think asshole with your asshole question?
You absolutely sure rachel is even a women and that I’m a man? Of course not!
So STFU yourself!
“is that how you treat all women?”
Are you justifying rape and murder Menachem? When did you stop beating your wife?
menachem, when i encounter a bitch sometimes i bitchslap her, if i’m in the mood.
it’s “yesterday’s news” rachel, because, no doubt, you’re ready to defend and run interference for the next round of war-crimes, horrors, inhumanity, racism, murder, and all manner of the unspeakable your beloved ziofascist regime is planning
Only Israelis care. They can’t talk about anything else. Probably the overwhelming sense of guilt.
“Only Israelis care”
And so they should! It has nothing to do with you though. It is only your pet obssession.
So because I live in France, I am not able in any way to speak about the I/P conflict, I should only speak about France related stuff ?
Well, let me say that : France reaction to the I/P situation is unacceptable and French media coverage of the flottilla “incident” and the whole I/P issue is making me puke.
I don’t even know why I’m wasting time answering, though.
pet obsession? i love your transparency rachel. speaking of pets, remember when i treated you like kitty prey. the way i batted you back and forth like a trapped mouse til i exhausted you and you started screaming racist obscenities?
that was fun.
It has nothing to do with you though.
It has everything to do with is. We Americans politically, financially, militarily, and diplomatically subsidize Israeli ethnic cleansing and colonization. We are fighting two Zionist wars in the Muslim world and neocon traitors are doing their best to get us embroiled in a third.
When Israel throws a temper tantrum, Americans die. Perhaps our war casualties ‘slipped your mind’. They haven’t slipped ours, and your incessant warmongering, murdering, torturing, and plundering is a threat to us and will remain our business until you cease and desist involving us in it. Live with it.
“It is yesterday ’s news. Nobody cares.”
Is the Holocaust yesteday’s news too Rachel?
Is the Holocaust yesteday’s news too Rachel?
So predictable!
What happened Rachel? You seemed genuinely upset right after this occured. You even got some good words from some of your dedicated adversaries.
yes, it is just so predictable we would equate others executions w/past war crimes. silly us. no worries rachel, the never again lesson has been thoroughly incorporated into modern day sensibilities, we won’t let israel go full throttle, the global mindset won’t stand for it.
Logic does tend to be predictable Rachel.
Bingo, Shingo
Rachel and the zionists love the Holocau$t because it has paid such political and monetary dividends over the decades
i never mix the words love and holocaust. let’s just say they show no compunction abusing the memory of all those people when it serves their zionist agenda.
if it’s so meaningless, rachel, why are you so afraid of it?
besides, don’t you value truth?
From the updated video it’s impossible to reconstruct the timeline of events. The original video from the camcorder should have a timestamp, date, etc..
We’re getting bits and pieces of an incident that lasted about 4 hours.
Yeah and if Israel had not confiscated all of the activist footage , photos etc the puzzle would be much easier to put together, If Israel was so sure that what they were doing was within legal bounds…let the cameras roll
they executed 9 activist
IDF buggers stole Italian journalist’s credit card and used it.
that’s just tacky.
no class.
Is there a Nobel prize for tacky?
Is there a Nobel prize for tacky?
LOL
LOL, where did you come up with that, are you pulling news out of your kiester?
If there was a noble prize for tacky then surely Netanyahu and his wife Sara would get it for being caught with the prime-ministerial silverware in their possession after leaving office first time round in 1999. They had to give it back under the glare and scrutiny of the media. (makes you wonder, doesn’t it, how any sane people would vote in as their leaders, a family of known silverware thieves?)
Let’s not even mention how Sara Netanyahu’s maid recently took her to court accusing her of unfair wages, ie: paying her UNDER minimum wage- tsk tsk tsk Sara.
No wonder Michelle Obama refused to receive her when she was here in the USA last year.
No class.
Menachem,
Yeah, he just whipped it up right out of Haaretz:
link to haaretz.com
It’s reported in the Israeli daily Haaretz.
From the updated video it’s impossible to reconstruct the timeline of events.
avi, Ali Abunimah attempts some timeline reconstruction in this post from photos stamps. i’m sure if and when enough footage surfaces it can be coordinated, especially video w/sound. several people (besides ali) have stated the attack started during muslim prayers.
You can see the sun rise in the east, and the Mavi Marmara is steaming west to get away from them. In retreat. And the IDF bastards are chasing them.
Smart move to release it at the UN. Satellite feeds had this around the world instantly.
It’s immaterial what the US thinks of this. Any hoe to the israeli party line damages the US more. Good luck to our troops in Afghanistan.
Wow, nice observation, MRW. I guess you’re talking about the footage starting at 11:58, where you can clearly see that the sky is pink/orange behind the boat and a lot darker in front.
That corroborates the works by Ali Abunimah where you can see the route of the boat thanks to it’s GPS signal.
is that the same GPS signal which was scrambled by the IDF before boarding the ship?
Yeah, the one that Ms. Lee said this AM they had an extra one of, and of course the satellite signal that Al-Jazeera used to broadcast after two dead before that went dead as well.
Sorry, it’s the Automatic Identification System signal, as recorded by the website marinetraffic.com
As you can see, AIS works using the VHF transponder, so blocking the satellite communications doesn’t interfere.
I don’t think that Hamas nor Israel have any shares of the stock of marinetraffic.com, so I consider this data accurate.
“is that the same GPS signal which was scrambled by the IDF before boarding the ship?”
Yes. What’s your point? That the ship had manged to travel 70 miles between the timer the last GPS signal was transmitted and the IDF pirates boarded them?
I don’t think that Hamas nor Israel have any shares of the stock of marinetraffic.com, so I consider this data accurate.
some rich zionist will probably make them an offer they can’t refuse asap. there goes the neighborhood.
I did not approve of the raid, but you are flogging this to death. This is what the world is talking about today! And it does not revolve around Israel!!!!
Iran to review nuclear watchdog relations
Obama meets families of men killed in BP rig blast
Tight Dutch election leads to coalition talks
Norwegians sentenced to death in Congo
S. Korean rocket may have exploded in flight
Charges against polygamist leader dismissed
Chavez lifts electricity rationing in Venezuela
Mexico condemns Border Patrol shooting of teen
ICC prosecutor wants accused Sudanese arrested
US teen’s police beating brings calls for probe
Celebrity adviser faces upped fraud charges in NY
From the mondoweiss.net about page :
From the list above, except Iran, we have nothing to say about all those other subjects here on Mondoweiss.
Melka, if this website is supposed to carry a diversity of voices, then why is mine censored when I do not violate the comments policy?
I’m neither an administrator nor a long time user of the site, so don’t even ask me : no idea.
Ok let me try again and see if my comments need to be moderated, is everyone elses moderated?
Hmm yes I am being moderated and censored, even though I haven’t violated the policy, that’s so strange, I think I saw Julian say that too? Are all dissenters moderated?
yo max, we’re hearing you loud and clear.
rachel daaarling, i always love your transparency:
you are flogging this to death. This is what the world is talking about today!
by all means go to some iran, BP rig, Dutch election , Congo
S. Korean , polygamist, Chavez , Border Patrol , Sudanese , teen’s police beating , or Celebrity fraud sites or relax and join the crowd. admit it rachel, you’re obsessed too. you know what they say about the inevitable? relax and enjoy it. taking down israel is our gift to you. appreciate it. the truth will set you free.
You’d like us to talk about ANYTHING other than the murderous assault your disgusting little Zionist state wrought upon unarmed humanitarian aid volunteers, huh.
That’s a nice spin on “they suck.”
Some originality from you Hasbarats wouldn’t be bad either.
>> but you are flogging this to death.
Poor choice of words, don’t you think?
And pre-Goldstone, you likely also though Gaza was yesterday’s news too, dinch ya?
Since Lebanon in 1982, Israel’s fall from grace in world opinion has been nothing short of breathtaking. And all this after all Israel’s efforts at obfuscation and spin. This trend only seems to be accelerating, perhaps in conjunction with the flattening of media channels.
You guys are screwed.
You
So Rachel if you get raped, a month later we shouldn’t care because it happened 4 weeks ago and there has been no justice. I am a good looking white young southern guy and if you have a mate(highly unlikely judging from your anger) he’s the unluckiest poor bastard in the world.
Rachel, go use your disinformation tactics on a site that cares and doesn’t know the difference.
here’s what Israel is talking about today, Rachel:
Italian flotilla journalist: My credit card was used after IDF confiscated it (Haaretz)
South Korea protesters greet Peres with cries of ‘killer’
Seventh Suicide at Ayalon Prison
“ova law” will allow young women in Israel to donate an ovum to couples who suffer from fertility problems, in return for payment – thus putting an end to the lucrative business of ova donations from abroad that has generated millions of shekels in the past few years.
Fire erupts at Bnei Brak shawarma restaurant; police suspect arson (Ch. 10)
Israel to restrict Temple Mount entry Friday due to intel on possible protest (Haaretz)
Stratfor: “Kadima Party leader Tzipi Livni’s motion of no confidence was denied by Israel’s parliament, but her action may signal other opposition efforts to come.”
Here’s what Finland is talking about:
Foreign Minister Alexander Stubb said that he was deeply shocked at Israel’s attack on a convoy of aid ships heading for the Gaza strip.
“All violence directed at civilians must be condemned. This should not happen,” he told the Finnish News Agency.
Stubb said that Finland would summon the Israeli ambassador to provide an explanation and added that he had also communicated with the foreign minister of Turkey, from where most of those injured or killed in Monday’s attack were from.
psycho g, that ovum law sounds sicko
Couples who wish to marry, when one of the partners was born from a donated ovum, will be able to check with the registrar ……. will make it possible to match the donor’s and recipient’s religion
wouldn’t want to find out your fiance was only 99.9% jewish. tsk tsk.
that operation is devastatingly painful btw, from what i’ve heard.
I’ll spot you one from the Guardian:
link to guardian.co.uk
Ideas to end the blockade to be put forward to the EU on Monday, since most of the countries want tougher action.
Can you imagine what is on those cameras and video cameras, phones that they Israeli soldiers confiscated from the activist? What happens if Israel destroys all of the evidence? What am i saying If.
Israel is destroying itself
More footage at Juan Coles of an execution on the ship. 30 bullets in 9 people many of those people shot in the back of the head. Now the world sees what the Palestinians have been going through for decades..the brutality of the Israeli soldiers unleashed
Video Shows Israeli Commando Executing American
Posted on June 10, 2010 by Juan
link to juancole.com
Just an hour ago when you googled Iara Lee it was one page now it is up to 9 pages
I cant find any coverage of the news conference yet. ALjazeera, RT, PressTV. Has anyone found anything yet?
This moderation business is a pain in the tuchis!
How are these comments moderated? Arbitrarily? This is a good way to get rid of a pest like me. Ciao!
I’m guessing that all members of the Israel whoreship cult are moderated. Maybe it’s something they said, I donno..
Am I the only one under moderation who is not complaining about it, then?
off topic:
South Korea protesters greet Peres with cries of ‘killer’
Peres’ trip to Seoul downgraded to ‘working visit,’ trip to Hanoi cancelled.
Christian Clergy in Seoul lead demonstrations condemning Israeli raid on humanitarian flotilla, demand end to Gaza blockade.
South Korea protesters greet Peres with cries of ‘killer’
Wow. Just wow. South Koreans don’t do that to visiting heads of state. “Killer?” Wow. They demonstrate before the visit, they demonstrate after. There are rules of decorum in Korean society that even we dont honor.
awesome, it’s a global protest.
Italian flotilla journalist: My credit card was used after IDF confiscated it (Haaretz)
Wow. I expected Israel’s agenda to be damaged by the flotilla whether they attacked it or whether they let it through, but it’s doing more damage with them attacking it then I would have thought possible.
There’s apparently even more depravity going on in the IDF than even I’d imagined.
Keep forwarding the “News From Outside the Bubble,” as one particular wise Jewish man of good conscious puts it, PG. Though, maybe include links if you can? It’s only fair that I ask that of you if I’m going to demand such from people I expect far, far less of. ;)
Oh. You actually did post a link in the first of those two posts. I retract my browbeating. ;)
What a dumb move to allow the military to play into an ancient anti-semitic stereotype. What are they smoking in Israel?
Well, it’s consistent with their misuse of people’s passports.
Maybe that’s how they’ll deter further freedom flotillas: let people know their documents will be misused.
Of course, it will also hurt their tourism trade.
Yeah, let’s see Brand Israel try to set up another tacky beach in Central Park this summer.
There smokin some outdoor schwag.
they’re kids. some idiot had access to credit cards. sfw. frankly w/9 people dead a stolen credit card is the least we have to worry about. they’re training children to murder. this is the sort of stuff that happened in Ishaqi, except it wasn’t a ‘mistake’. revenge? maybe. idiots w/power, access. don’t forget we killed thousands like this in iraq. trainer killers, youth. bad combination.
First coverage of news conference I have seen (kindly sent by Sharon)
link to ipsnews.net
Unfortunately a bit wishy washy “The footage released by Lee appears to confirm elements of both accounts”
What needs to be shown/explained is the time line. The 15min edit shows blood on ladder in the first 2 minutes, but no explanation of where blood came from. Then later shows commandos rappelling down …
From what I have seen so far, appears to support time line that people on board ship were dead or wounded before any commando set foot on deck. link to twitter.com says more footage will be released tomorrow.
If video shows that people on board were dead or wounded before any commando rappelled down that supports every single survivor testimony.
It also means, more ominously, that the IDF deliberately provoked passengers to ensure a confrontation when they rappelled down.
That video is pretty suspect. Also what kind of rifle are the Seals using? I don’t believe there is a tactical rifle on the market which requires a pumping action, but there are many paintball guns which do…….
Who knows though, that video is pretty indistinguishable.
Also the ‘unedited video’ what is that proving? That the ‘peace activists’ shot slingshots at the choppers, they kidnapped israeli soldiers, and they israelis were aiming at the legs at one time during the confrontation.
Yes, all so tra-la-la, isn’t it.
The blood is that of Israeli soldiers which were beaten upon arrival on the ship also. This beating and kidnapping is why their commander gave the order to use live fire and ‘shoot to kill’
Not too worry it will all come out, along with Erdogan’s association w/ IHH and their association with terrorism.
Bring on the international probe, this is one of the few times where Israel doesn’t have anything to hide and the truth will be on their side.
”The blood is that of Israeli soldiers which were beaten upon arrival on the ship also”
Is that what the IDF, who confiscated all video on cameras told you?
“Not too worry it will all come out, along with Erdogan’s association w/ IHH and their association with terrorism.”
We look forward to it, if the IDF ever decide to release the video footage they stole and refuse to release.
As for IHH association with terrorism, if there was any evidence to supper it, why hasn’t Israel, who is making the charge, released it?
“Bring on the international probe, this is one of the few times where Israel doesn’t have anything to hide and the truth will be on their side.”
Tell that to Israel that is hiding evidence and rejecting an international probe.
Evidently, they have a great deal to hide.
…seeing as how you were on that ship…
Probe :
link to haaretz.com
Menachem, you need to “Begin” to shut yer piehole cause your getting on my nerves. I’ve got nothing constructive tonight. Try the veal…
“this is one of the few times where Israel doesn’t have anything to hide and the truth will be on their side.”
That’s so obviously untrue. Multiple flotilla survivors have said the first priority for commandos after hijacking the boats was to confiscate all recording media: cameras/memory cards, videos/tapes etc.
If Israel has nothing to hide – then stop hiding it!
You might try one of these for your viewing pleasure, Einstein.
REMINGTON LAUNCHES LINE OF TACTICAL RIFLES – INCLUDING MODEL 700™ LONG RANGE TACTICAL AND MODEL 7615™ PUMP ACTION CARBINE
Specifically, the Model 7615 Tactical Rifle.
link to remington.com
LOL MRW, so they brought on long range rifles onto the flotilla? you are funny dude.
I guess you are unaware that a carbine is a standard police patrol issue in the US.
LOL MRW, why would a special forces soldier choose to use a pump action instead of a semi-auto/auto rifle? I am sorry dude but you are really stretching here.
There is not an army in the world, let a lone a special forces unit, that would use a pump action rifle in combat. LOL!!!!!!
what do you know about rifles anyways? other than a google search?
For those who have no clue about weaponry:
link to isayeret.com
do you know what carbine means MRW?
Weren’t you the ones who said that you boarded the ship without being prepared for a big fight, just a little protest ? In this case, why would you bring Uzis and stuff ?
huh? it is a paintball gun or some other time of non-lethal gun, hence the pump action melka.
“huh? it is a paintball gun or some other time of non-lethal gun, hence the pump action melka.”
That would explain the 4 bullets that ended up inside teh victim’s skull.
Aren’t paintball guns supposed to have a huge reservoir full of, hence the name, paint balls ? As you said, i’m no expert at weapons, but please show me one withouth any container to put the balls.
And don’t forget that any kind of non-lethal weapons, like the flashball, are non lethal from a certain distance. At close range, it can kill. Those guys are shooting at almost point-blank.
If you read the comments carefully (on the other post) you’d see that we are not saying those “soldiers” are killing someone, we are trying to understand what happened, unlike you and the other hasbaratistas.
I looked at the video again, are you guys sure something is being discharged? wouldn’t there be some sort of flash at the end of the barrel?
there are so many holes….. so many holes………
Usually not.
Muzzle flashes last milliseconds, and video only runs are 25 or 30 fps. If you ever saw a camera flash on a DSLR recoded on video,. you’d know that most of the time, the video won’t pick it up.
Any more asinine arguments you want to bring up?
Menachem, from what I’ve seen here, Shingo is a pretty tough customer, so you might want to save yourself the embarrassment. Just saying.
Sorry Shingo, but that makes absolutely no sense at all. Keep on trying to convince yourself though, it’s fun!
I might not make sense to someone who knows nothing about the subject, but as someone who works in feature film and advertising visual effects, I can assure you it is a major issue.
Ask anyone in post production and they’ll tell you that in commercials when they need strobes to appear on frame or on feature films where they need muzzle flashed to appear, they always add it in post production.
Sorry to burst your hemeticaly sealed Zionazi reality bubble.
aren’t you a nuclear scientist also?
Do you want to recruit Shingo ? I think Israel have enough advance in the nuclear field, they don’t need another Oppenheimer.
“aren’t you a nuclear scientist also?”
I used to be a nuclear engineer yes.
I got bored of that and made a career change.
So what was your last name on this forum before you got banned?
By the way I’m still waiting for the picture of the paintball gun without reservoir (or hopper, as I learnt how it’s called) and that needs to be manually pumped (are the IDF finances so bad they can’t afford gas cartridges ?)
eeeeeeeeeeee
9people are dead and your talking about paint balls? Did gilad shalit get captured with paint balls?
How did at least four of the dead end up – according to autopsies carried out on them – with multiple bullet wounds to the head including the top of the head shot from close range? And if they were resisting and posing a life to the danger of the soldiers involved how come the were not moving around but were still long enough and close enough for so many bullets to be emptied into their skulls. You and your ilk disgust me beyond belief.
danger to the life of the soldiers. I’ve just woken up
“eeeeeeeeeeee”
Damn!You beat me to it!
Melka
link to youtube.com
Look @ around 51 seconds. There is your hopper.
As for the pumping of the gun in the other video, who knows. was the gun even being fired? was it a non-lethal projectile? No one knows, the video was poor and without context. But somehow you guys all believe it’s the execution of a 19 year old Turk.
Ok, so there’s a hopper on the video you linked.
But is there a hopper on the video of this post ? That’s the video we’re talking about. You said, repeatedly, that the weapon on THIS video was a paintball gun or another non-lethal weapon. Now we agree it’s not a paintball gun (I still don’t see no hopper here), but that doesn’t mean it’s a non lethal weapon.
Flashball at point blank range can be lethal, I already told you that.
If you only spent some time reading what we are writing instead of trying to “score points” (which is, as written in the Hasbara Handbook, innefective on forums where people try to think by themselves), you would have seen that we mostly agree that this video shows nothing but 2 Israeli “soldiers” beating someone and then shooting him/her with an unidentified weapon at point blank range. We also condemned the use of text on the video and the short editing, because we don’t want to use the same methods as Israel.
Now please kindly stop using Method 1 and apply Method 2.
they kidnapped israeli soldiers
And then proceeded to treat their wounds…
And, one cannot “kidnap” soldiers who illegally land on a vessel in international waters – the activists, however, WERE kidnapped when they were taken to Israel, and thrown into confinement, with little telephone access, and their material destroyed.
“Also the ‘unedited video’ what is that proving?”
1. Shots were fired from the helicopter before any Israeli commandos boarded the ship.
2. That the passengers had NOT set a trap or a lunching.
3.
That the ‘peace activists’ shot slingshots at the choppers, they kidnapped israeli soldiers, and they israelis were aiming at the legs at one time during the confrontation.
Kidnapped Israeli soldiers? Are you out fo your Zionism fucking mind? The IDF thugs stormed the ship, in international waters, firing semi automatic weapons at unarmed passenger you fucking dip shit.
BTW MEnachem Who decided to name you after a terrorist?
Shingo,
I don’t get it, so Israel came in firing, but still managed to get three of their soldiers taken hostage by unarmed individuals, who were being assaulted by attack helicopters?
Am i missing something? seriously is that how you think it happened? There are some major issues with your guys’ theory here, i’d like someone to fill in the wholes.
How does a group of unarmed peace activists take control over elite special forces soldiers who are shooting to kill while still on the helicopter?
how do we think it happened? Because an ex-US military marine was the one who took him down, took his handgun, and removed the bullets, or didn’t you see that clip as well? You know, the guy who was beaten up in the Israeli prison and called a “terrorist.”
Of course, did you see the shape two of those IDF-finest were in? Pillsbury doughboys.
There are some major issues with your guys’ theory here, i’d like someone to fill in the wholes.
Let me return the compliment
“I don’t get it, so Israel came in firing, but still managed to get three of their soldiers taken hostage by unarmed individuals, who were being assaulted by attack helicopters?”
You’re assuming that the IDF soldiers aren’t pussies with big guns. They got their asses handed to them by Hezbollah, who were much more poorly armed in 2006 didn’t they?
“Am i missing something? seriously is that how you think it happened? ”
The IDF have gone soft and are only used to dealing with unarmed Palestinians. it som happened that there was a former US commado who taught them a lesson or two.
“How does a group of unarmed peace activists take control over elite special forces soldiers who are shooting to kill while still on the helicopter?’
Liek I said. Having big guns doens’t make you good at your job, especially when most of them are cowards.
“How does a group of unarmed peace activists take control over elite special forces soldiers who are shooting to kill while still on the helicopter” Because their pussies? Is that it, or is it multiple choice?
Sorry I didn’t see that my theory had been covered already.
“How does a group of unarmed peace activists take control over elite special forces soldiers who are shooting to kill while still on the helicopter?”
I believe Hizbollah have already given you the answer, TWICE OVER!
Why don’t you read wikipedia’s article on the paratroop assault on the airfields in Crete in 1941, a few hundred miles from where this happened.
One is awfully exposed and vulnerable, when descending from the sky against people who are prepared to stop you, even if the latter have no firearms. In Crete, local farmers scythed the Germans as they hit the ground. Ouch!
A lot of NZ soldiers who butchered the German paratroops eventually underwent PTSD from that more than any other battle they endured in WWII.
Melees like this are testosterone driven. Having watched and read about this happening in real time, I might understand why there had been a few minutes of blood lust in the time between the obvious intent by the Israelis to forcefully board and the moment when the bridge capitulated. But, looking at the IDF video, there isn’t. It is a fairly typical ad hoc resistance to capture of a vessel at sea.
While I was watching the intermittent live feed and live blogging it, following the large volume of twitter messages, I noticed the flotilla participants’ traffic indicating they would not to continue to approach the coast overnight. That turned out to be the case.
As I remember reading then, the MV Marmara radioed the IDF that they were not going to get closer overnight, long before the final assault was initiated.
The chances of a fuckup in any night op, even by well-trained troops, for an operation like this are immense.
The bottom line is that we now know for sure that:
1. The flotilla was not approaching the coast at the time of the assault.
2. The IDF opened fire from the air, before the insertion.
3. The assault was resisted after the firing, rather strenuously, and probably for no more than 15-20 minutes.
4. IDF members were captured. At least three, possibly more. None were killed. Rather, they were protected and medically treated if possible.
5. After the capitulation, it is being alleged through statements, forensic exams and somewhat ambiguous smuggled video, that the IDF performed assassinations on at least one of the Turks.
====
There doesn’t seem to be enough outrage at the IDF confiscation of passengers’ possessions, particularly the tools they brought to tell the story.
There was no way to know how this might have turned out before hand. I paint both the flotilla organizers and the IDF planners fools.
The next flotillas need to try to deploy the best off-the-shelf anti-electronic warfare techniques available to mankind.
The probable payback assassination of the Turk taikwondo champ troubles me. He may have been the most effective organizer of the topside resistance. While that would have made him an important sniper target from the choppers, he is reported to having survived uninjured past the capitulation. I’d like to know more about this. Cetin Topcuoglu is going to become a hero among the Turks, no matter how much we additionally discover, though.
“How does a group of unarmed peace activists take control over elite special forces soldiers who are shooting to kill while still on the helicopter?”
I believe Hizbollah have already given you the answer, TWICE OVER!”
Evidently, the meaning of elite has lost it’s relevance in Israeli society. Little wonder that more than half the students in Israel fail their finals.
The next flotillas need to try to deploy the best off-the-shelf anti-electronic warfare techniques available to mankind.
Assuming they don’t have the finances to get all this fancy equipment, shouldn’t the next flotilla just sail across the Egyptian border, in Egypt’s territorial water, to go into Gaza’s territorial water ? I know there’s a lot of diplomatic and legal issues with such a plan, first one being getting the authorization to enter Egypt’s water, but could that work ? Or maybe there are authorized Israeli forces enforcing the blockade in Egypt’s water too ?
I think the moral of the story is that the IDF should stick to doing what they do best. Attacking unarmed civilians, preferabley women and children. The (highly-trained, well-armed and elite) Israeli commandos should absolutely avoid attacking men even those armed with sticks as they obviously don’t have the balls, the spine, or the moral fortitude to deal with people who can fight back. Even if their opponents are armed to a fraction of the degree that they are.
First sucessfu Falschirmjeager deployment. Worst parachutes ever designed, dove face first too. Single line on the harness hard to control. Sorry I’m a Fallie buff. Tough bastards.
for your edification dip shit (menachem), described here as What is most shocking is the tactical and operational incompetence of the Israelis
…..is getting their ass handed to them on a platter by one aging ex marine.
what? no kids w/rocks? bumerella. guess who’s laughing at the ‘commandos’??
Check out the comments in this post and read the reactions — many of them from U.S. and allied officers, who make up a large portion of this blog’s readership
this is a COIN blog (counter intel) from center for a new american security. yer a joke. if all those people weren’t DEAD it might even be funny. enjoy the graphic (cartoon).
ps, from the comment section of my last link
Martin van Creveld needs to bitch slap the entire IDF establishment for this one.
gee, ya think.
Great link!!
I love this comment in particular:
” In Lebanon, friends of mine refer to the Israeli army as “The Gucci Army” since they all kids drafted after high school and walking around in designer gear with not a clue.
This just adds to the weight that the Israeli military is incompetent. They cannot even send commandos onto a ship without getting beaten up by hippies and peace activists. The clip of one Israeli “commando” getting thrown over board is painful to watch in its humiliation.
Exactly the same in the case of the assassination in Dubai. The “secret agents” managed to get there faces plastered around every media outlet in the world for weeks. It seems Dubai police have problems directing traffic in an half efficient way but can still successfully identify Mossad assassins.
The attempts the “crush” Hezbollah also play into this narrative that Israels leadership (at a systemic level) don’t the the slightest clue when it comes to performing military operations. At the end of the Day that is probably what will cause Israel the most damage.
Jesus, imagine if these incompetents actually tried to bomb Iran if they cant even deal with a ship of human rights activists…”
Oh that’s Web-Gold Annie. Lulz!
Shingo, this guy is a disinfo plant. We shouldn’t be feeding him. Me included. He wants to add ink to keep everyone off the topic with Alice-in-Wonderland arguments.
I totally agree with you, MRW, but it’s kind of fun :)
Menachim is eee
488Mb HD Download Link of footage released so far:
link to gazaflotilla.delegitimize.com
link to cbc.ca
Flotilla Forensics – Eyewitnesses
“CBC interview from a couple of days ago with Mavi Marmara, Vice-Chair of Turkey’s Council of Forensic Medicine. It would appear that there is one non-bullet brain wound of packaged lead-shot.
It bothered me to no end the official spokesmen emphasis on paint-ball guns, as if for a moment that it is believable that commandos would bring toys. It would appear that the description is a misnomer and a rancid one at that. It appears that a riot control weapon was used to kill.” – YYSyd
@joesphp –
Issue I see is the IDF claims they acted in self-defense and have had their version of events and their video played the world over of commandos rappelling down and being attacked.
The 15min released so far, shows in the first 2-5min unexplained blood stains on a ladder, sounds of gunfire, commandos rappelling down from a helicopter. If the blood on the ladder is a passengers blood, wounded or dead before any commando set foot on the ship, that supports every single survivors testimony that they were attacked before being boarded.
It means, irrefutably, that the IDF deliberately provoked the passengers in order to achieve the outcome the IDF and the US-Israeli Gov wanted, a confrontation leading to murder, mayhem, and pre-determined justification of ‘self-defense’ by the IDF
The IDF, AIPAC, the US congress, Jon Stewart, Glenn Beck, ABC, BBC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, NBC, SkyNews, etc etc ad nauseam propagandists have barraged the world with “Israel acted in self-defense” Same old story. This video potentially destroys that completely. Thats why have to see it in its entirety.
It will be ignored by Israeli controlled media/politicians and get little exposure, make no mistake, but it is potentially irrefutable to someone who cares about the truth
You know, sayanim/hasbarats like rachel and menachem provide a name to which israeli/zionist war crimes can be attached. They provide people with some insight to the racist and criminally defective nature that is israel itself. it’s kind of like opposing the nazis, but being disgusted with in an abstract way, until…you finally meet one and they open their mouth and provide you will all the reason in the world to why the freaks should be opposed. And put down.
Now I see where the Turkish stories about the israeli hit lists originated from and that they are in fact are real. The captured list was shown in this video. I had wondered how how the info was smuggled out of gestapo hq, er…sorry, israel.
Thanks for posting this here, BTW.
hayate,
If you’re referring to the 16′ video, I could be wrong, but I’m not sure those are assassination “hit lists”, just the IDs of the passengers on the boats – which is in itself a problem, because it means they had informants (unless everything was made public).
Anybody reading hebrew can translate those texts ?
Image here : link to img816.imageshack.us
A lot was made public before the
“elite IDF units”assassins and clowns left the tarmac. I watched it. Hundreds of web sites, thousands of facebooks and hundreds of thousands of tweets were out there. The IDF’s job was to monitor these. They probably did a better job than the IDF EW jammers, who failed even worse than the commandos.Yeah, that’s just a list and photo ID of the passengers, there are many there that weren’t killed – but I can’t help with the Hebrew…
This doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a hit list, though.
The document shown in this video is way too small to include all the members on the Mavi Marmara. It’s not a passenger list. There’s only about 4 pages with around 6 people per page. Take a look at the video, it’s shown soon after minute 5. A man who speaks English holds the document up and flips through the pages to give a clear image on the camara. Someone who reads Hebrew should be able to translate the larger print on it. The pages are also shiny, reflect light, so it appears to be laminated.
Since I noticed sayanim menachem is spamming bs about the captured ss, er…sorry, israeli commandos, I’ll post this account of their capture in full:
June 7, 2010 Reflections by a Former US Marine on the Mavi Marmara On Cowardice and Violence
By KEN O’KEEFE
Istanbul
In 2002 I initiated the TJP Human Shield Action to Iraq because I knew that the invasion of Iraq had been planned well in advance, that it was part of a ‘Global Spectrum Dominance’ agenda as laid out by the Project For A New American Century. I knew that protests had no chance of stopping the invasion, and that largely these protests were just a way of making us feel better about the coming mass murder; by being able to say “I protested against it.” With that understanding I argued that the only viable way to stop the invasion was to conduct a mass migration to Iraq. A migration in which people from around the world, especially western citizens, would position themselves at sites in Iraq that are supposed to be protected by international law, but which are routinely bombed when it is only Iraqi, Palestinian, generally non-white, western lives who will be killed. I felt 10,000 such people could stop the invasion, or at the very least, expose the invasion for what it was from the start, an act of international aggression, a war crime and a crime against humanity.
I have for many years understood that we, people of conscience, are the true holders of power in this world. Frustratingly however we have largely relinquished that power and failed to reach our full potential. Our potential to create a better world, a just world. Nonetheless I have conspired with others of like mind to reveal and exercise our true power.
When our two double decker busses travelled from London to Baghdad through Turkey, it was ever clear that the people of Turkey also could sense the power of this act, and they were the biggest participants in it. In the end we did not get the numbers required to stop the war, with at least one million Iraqi’s dead as a result, but I remain convinced that it was within our power to prevent the invasion. A massive opportunity lost as far as I am concerned.
In 2007 I joined the Free Gaza Movement with its plan to challenge the blockade of Gaza by travelling to Gaza by sea. From the moment I heard of the plan I knew it could succeed and ultimately I served as a captain on the first attempt. The Israeli government said throughout our preparation that we were no better than pirates and they would treat us as such. They made clear we would not reach Gaza. And still I knew we could succeed. And we did. Two boats with 46 passengers from various countries managed to sail into Gaza on August 23, 2007; this was the first time this had been done in 41 years.
The truth is the blockade of Gaza is far more than three years old, and yet we, a small group of conscientious people defied the Israeli machine and celebrated with tens of thousands of Gazans when we arrived that day. We proved that it could be done. We proved that an intelligent plan, with skilled manipulation of the media, could render the full might of the Israeli Navy useless. And I knew then that this was only the tip of the iceberg.
So participating in the Freedom Flotilla is like a family reunion to me. It is my long lost family whose conscience is their guide, who have shed the fear, who act with humanity. But I was especially proud to join IHH and the Turkish elements of the flotilla. I deeply admire the strength and character of the Turkish people, despite your history having stains of injustice, like every nation, you are today from citizen to Prime Minister among the leaders in the cause of humanity and justice.
I remember being asked during the TJP Human Shield Action to Iraq if I was a pacifist, I responded with a quote from Gandhi by saying I am not a passive anything. To the contrary I believe in action, and I also believe in self-defence, 100 per cent, without reservation. I would be incapable of standing by while a tyrant murders my family, and the attack on the Mavi Marmara was like an attack on my Palestinian family. I am proud to have stood shoulder to shoulder with those who refused to let a rogue Israeli military exert their will without a fight.
And yes, we fought.
When I was asked, in the event of an Israeli attack on the Mavi Marmara, would I use the camera, or would I defend the ship? I enthusiastically committed to defence of the ship. Although I am also a huge supporter of non-violence, in fact I believe non-violence must always be the first option. Nonetheless I joined the defence of the Mavi Mamara understanding that violence could be used against us and that we may very well be compelled to use violence in self defence.
I said this straight to Israeli agents, probably of Mossad or Shin Bet, and I say it again now, on the morning of the attack I was directly involved in the disarming of two Israeli Commandos. This was a forcible, non-negotiable, separation of weapons from commandos who had already murdered two brothers that I had seen that day. One brother with a bullet entering dead center in his forehead, in what appeared to be an execution.
I knew the commandos were murdering when I removed a 9mm pistol from one of them. I had that gun in my hands and as an ex-US Marine with training in the use of guns it was completely within my power to use that gun on the commando who may have been the murderer of one of my brothers. But that is not what I, nor any other defender of the ship did. I took that weapon away, removed the bullets, proper lead bullets, separated them from the weapon and hid the gun. I did this in the hopes that we would repel the attack and submit this weapon as evidence in a criminal trial against Israeli authorities for mass murder. I also helped to physically separate one commando from his assault rifle, which another brother apparently threw into the sea.
I and hundreds of others know the truth that makes a mockery of the brave and moral Israeli military. We had in our full possession, three completely disarmed and helpless commandos. These boys were at our mercy, they were out of reach of their fellow murderers, inside the ship and surrounded by 100 or more men. I looked into the eyes of all three of these boys and I can tell you they had the fear of God in them. They looked at us as if we were them, and I have no doubt they did not believe there was any way they would survive that day. They looked like frightened children in the face of an abusive father.
But they did not face an enemy as ruthless as they. Instead the woman provided basic first aid, and ultimately they were released, battered and bruised for sure, but alive. Able to live another day. Able to feel the sun over head and the embrace of loved ones. Unlike those they murdered. Despite mourning the loss of our brothers, feeling rage towards these boys, we let them go.
The Israeli prostitutes of propaganda can spew all of their disgusting bile all they wish, the commandos are the murderers, we are the defenders, and yet we fought. We fought not just for our lives, not just for our cargo, not just for the people of Palestine, we fought in the name of justice and humanity. We were right to do so, in every way.
While in Israeli custody I, along with everyone else was subjected to endless abuse and flagrant acts of disrespect. Women and elderly were physically and mentally assaulted. Access to food and water and toilets was denied. Dogs were used against us, we ourselves were treated like dogs. We were exposed to direct sun in stress positions while hand cuffed to the point of losing circulation of blood in our hands. We were lied to incessantly, in fact I am awed at the routineness and comfort in their ability to lie, it is remarkable really. We were abused in just about every way imaginable and I myself was beaten and choked to the point of blacking out… and I was beaten again while in my cell. In all this what I saw more than anything else were cowards… and yet I also see my brothers. Because no matter how vile and wrong the Israeli agents and government are, they are still my brothers and sisters and for now I only have pity for them. Because they are relinquishing the most precious thing a human being has, their humanity.
In conclusion; I would like to challenge every endorser of Gandhi, every person who thinks they understand him, who acknowledges him as one of the great souls of our time (which is just about every western leader), I challenge you in the form of a question.
Please explain how we, the defenders of the Mavi Mamara, are not the modern example of Gandhi’s essence? But first read the words of Gandhi himself. I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence…. I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honour than that she should, in a cowardly manner, become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonour. – Gandhi And lastly I have one more challenge. I challenge any critic of merit, publicly, to debate me on a large stage over our actions that day. I would especially love to debate with any Israeli leader who accuses us of wrongdoing, it would be my tremendous pleasure to face off with you. All I saw in Israel was cowards with guns, so I am ripe to see you in a new context. I want to debate with you on the largest stage possible. Take that as an open challenge and let us see just how brave Israeli leaders are.
Ken O’Keefe is a former US Marine and Gulf War veteran.
link to counterpunch.org
He’s 100% correct about israelis being cowards. The only things more cowardly than israelis are known as klu klux klan. Note both israeli ss and klu klux klan wear masks over their faces when they attack their victims. Coincidence? Nah.
So first they fired from the helicopters?
Next they stormed the ship, with rifles and cover fire from the helicopters.
Did the soldier O’Keefe disarmed have a rifle? Or did he have a non-lethal projectile(most likely a paintball gun as they are obviously seen in the initial IDF video released) and a 9mm on his hip like the Israelis claim. The more you read his story, the more it is obvious the Israeli’s version was the truth and he is lying about his ‘brothers’ being killed first.
Why isn’t anyone bitching about his dual loyalties, wait i guess he renounced his US citizenship, NM.
The guy is a traitor and a liar, no one other than the far left conspiracy ‘news’ sites give his tail a minute of publicity.
Another Pallywood superstar if you ask me.
Wouldn’t this dipshit be numero uno on Israel’s hitlist? why didn’t they just kill him?
If you guys are going to make outrageous claims, you need to fill in the wholes you swiss cheese looking douchebags
So first they fired from the helicopters?
Next they stormed the ship, with rifles and cover fire from the helicopters.
Do you even proof-read what you’re writing ? Don’t you see you’re once again contradicting IDFs claims that they did not shoot before boarding the ship ?
Ok, O’Keefe had at one point a pistol, then a rifle in his hands. Maybe other passengers on the marmara touched these weapons. Where are the forensics reports and photos showing bullet wounds on the Israeli commandos ? There may be some but I haven’t seen them, so please provide a link.
And I’m still waiting for the paintball gun picture I asked you, menachem…
אתהש קר ן כ מו כ להחב רים הר וצח יםש לך
“Did the soldier O’Keefe disarmed have a rifle? Or did he have a non-lethal projectile(most likely a paintball gun as they are obviously seen in the initial IDF video released) and a 9mm on his hip like the Israelis claim. The more you read his story, the more it is obvious the Israeli’s version was the truth and he is lying about his ‘brothers’ being killed first.”
On the contrary,. The more you read thsi story and the more of Israel’s version of events fall apart, the more obvious the the Israeli’s version is bunk.
So far:
1. The Israelis were caught doctoring audio
2. The Israelis confiscated all video and photo evidence.
3. The Israelis retracted stories abotu guns on the ship
4. The Israelis retracted stories about Al Qaeda links
3. The Israelis blocked all radio signals and seized mobile phones.
It is clear who has is lying and who has somethign to hide.
“Why isn’t anyone bitching about his dual loyalties, wait i guess he renounced his US citizenship, NM”
Because it’s entirely irrelevant. Dual loyalties are a problem when someone has influence in country A but usess that influence to benefir country B. O’Keefe doesn’t fall into that catergory.
“The guy is a traitor and a liar, no one other than the far left conspiracy ‘news’ sites give his tail a minute of publicity.”
He ir neither tratori not a liar. Hisstory is entiely ocnsitent with the evidence and what’s more, he kicked Israli faux commado butt.
“Wouldn’t this dipshit be numero uno on Israel’s hitlist? why didn’t they just kill him?”
He will be on their list now. They already killed one American and only got away with it becasue he wasn”t a white guy.
“If you guys are going to make outrageous claims, you need to fill in the wholes you swiss cheese looking douchebags”
And if you are going to waste out fuckign time, then get the fuck on this forn you Zionacz bloodsucking scumbag
Or are you trying to get your self banned a second time?
The more you read his story, the more it is obvious the Israeli’s version was the truth and he is lying about his ‘brothers’ being killed first.
You must be reading about this story from the Israel Foreign Ministry then.
Very interesting video posted on Haaretz. Proving definitively that the “activists’ were prepared and armed for battle.
I wonder if democracy now is going to run the video? link to haaretz.com
It was the Israelis who stormed a ship in international waters you fuckwit. And they shot at the vessel and killed a passenger before setting foot on the vessel you fuckwit.
You get more pre meditated than that.
If course, Israel won’t release the footage they confiscated, so their guilt is all too obvious.
Right. Julian is Shocked! Shocked! that passengers on a ship who see armed pirates approaching would run get the kitchen knives and pull the railings down in order to defend themselves.
OF course if the passengers were Israelis Julian would come here and wave his willie about how brave and macho they were, kicking pirate ass.
Were you on the ship Shingo? That is a blatant misrepresentation of the truth.
Who did you get yourself from the terrorist Ken O’Keefe?
Why is he a terrorist?
Because he fought an IDF goon who invaded/hijacked the vessel he was on?
So if anyone – anyone – fights the IDF – they are automatically, terrorists?
Fuck you, fascist.
KO’K is a terrorist because of the people he associates himself with. His ‘story’ is pure fabrication also, the facts are not on his side. He claims that he subdued 3 Israel soldiers, after they fired from the helicopters and killed his ‘brothers.’ Why would the Israelis shoot from a helicopter and then after that land on the ship w/ paintball guns and revolvers on their sides. If they went on the ship with the intention to kill, why wouldn’t they initially board with rifles?
No one believes that shit, accept maybe the bots of Mondoweiss.
Gee, I’m totally surprised by this response! No one on that ship is a terrorist. He has no terrorist ‘ties’. I’m pretty sure if hypothetically he did ‘associate’ w/ terrorists, you’d have to define what ‘associate’ meant in that context.
So, judging by the circumstances, if he was ‘associating’ – that really just means he’s on a boat! Thus = terrorist.
You’re so dumb.
And all the other stupid shit you wrote is laughable.
I don’t know why the Israeli goons are so retarded as to grapple into a crowd of people who weren’t going to ‘greet’ them as liberators.
Everyone outside the heavily sedated American public is aware that Israel is a racist, European, settler-state that stole that land from the indigenous Palestinians.
The violence that Israel carries out, functions within the imperial/colonial framework.
This isn’t gang violence. This is a colonial conflict. Everything else is derivative of that framework.
Nothing you say is convincing or credible. We’ve had plenty of Zio-Trolls on this blog. I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re an old one w/ a new name. Enjoy your stay while you last, douche.
I still haven’t seen a picture of this hopper-less manually pumped paintball gun of yours…
I wouldn’t be surprised if you’re an old one w/ a new name.
Actually, he is. Watch a bit higher.
Oh lol. Yea I remember that guy (eee). Some crazy ex-IDF goon who used to troll here.
He began going nuts like BSD/UNIX and called female posters here ‘whores’ and such.
Welcome back psycho!
“’ Why would the Israelis shoot from a helicopter and then after that land on the ship w/ paintball guns and revolvers on their sides. If they went on the ship with the intention to kill, why wouldn’t they initially board with rifles?”
Easy.
1.There were no paintball guns.
2. They didn’t know there was a real commando on board and the Israeli dough boys obviously had no clue.
“No one believes that shit, accept maybe the bots of Mondoweiss”
On the contrary. Every government but the American and Italian governments condemned Israel’s actions, and the only reason the US media are such lame Iaraeli psycophanrs is because Israel confiscated all the video evidence and refuse to return it.
Every part of Israel’s version of events gas been debunked or retracted by Israel itself.
It looks like you and maximalist are on your own.
RIP Israel.
“Were you on the ship Shingo? That is a blatant misrepresentation of the truth.”
No it’s a blatan misrepresentation ofUsrael’s versionif events, which has already collapsed.
Were you on the ship Menachem? How would you know what the truth is? Because you believe the side that is hiding the
evidence?
There is obvious evidence there are paintball guns, its been posted on here a hundred times. For the 101st time Shingo, look at the 50 second mark.
link to youtube.com
Of course there were paintball guns – and?
And nothing, Shingo was denying they were there, I was proving they were.
Oh, they were attached to submachine guns too, by the way, according to a US ex-diplomat… small detail.
Shingo(Or should I call you Helen Thomas)
Where do you think the Jews of Israel should go?
There’s nothing conclusive there that suggests a paintball gun. The video quality is far to poor to make a judgement, though that hasn’t stopped Israeli propagandists insisting that they cann tell whether those sticks are made of wood or metal.
When was the last time paintball guns killed 9 people?
Are you joking Shingo, look at the hopper(the big plastic thing on top which is pretty obvious.) Do you know what a paintball gun is? Have you ever shot one? If that wasn’t a paint ball gun, what was it?
When you deny everything, even the most obvious of things, it makes every argument you make in the future suspect.
“Where do you think the Jews of Israel should go?”
Menachem (or should I say Avigdor?), why are you asking me when I never raised the issue?
Who are the Jews of Israel you are referring to anyway my Ziofascist scumbag?
You said RIP Israel, by advocating (or foreseeing) a ‘dead’ Jewish state, where do you propose the Jews go? If you are going to say RIP Israel, you need to explain it.
Avigdor Lieberman is an asshat, care to explain the comparison?
“Are you joking Shingo, look at the hopper(the big plastic thing on top which is pretty obvious”
How can you tell it’s plastic from the grainy IR footage and what’t to suggest it’s a hopper? Where are the images of paint splattered passengers?
Oh that’s right. Israel confiscated them all.
Menachem, not having a “Jewish” state does not mean that the Jews have to “go” anywhere. That’s a non sequitur.
That is fine but not assumed. When someone says RIP Israel, I’d like to know what they think whoever “kills” Israel would do with the Jews.
Blah blah Shingo, you are obviously delusional and arguing with you is futile. Have a good night.
Why does anyone have to “do anything” with the Jews?
And “RIP” doesn’t necessarily mean murder.
”
You said RIP Israel, by advocating (or foreseeing) a ‘dead’ Jewish state, where do you propose the Jews go?”
The end of Israel doesn’t mean the Jewish population need go anywhere, though they might have to get used to living in a secular democracy.
“Avigdor Lieberman is an asshat, care to explain the comparison?”
I think your explnation is adequate.
When someone says RIP Israel, I’d like to know what they think whoever “kills” Israel would do with the Jews.
One state solution, that’s all.
Blah blah Shingo, you are obviously delusional and arguing with you is futile. Have a good night.
el-oh-el
No it’s a serious question Menachem. How can you tell whether ghat black dot is made of plastic?
You are rather pathetic my dear free gaza activist.
Lies and hatred and pure, unadulterated lunacy. Why is that all you Zionists bring to the table?
Paul Woodward at War in Context (link to warincontext.org) often posted here, cast doubt on the Furkan Dogan Murder video today, so I sent him this:
Paul, I’ve been viewing your wise comments for a long time now, and you’ve become my No1 view.
So I was disappointed by your dismissal of the ‘Furkan Dogan Video’. (There is no non-sequential stuff that I can see).
The media team on board Mavi Marmara had a complex operation, streaming video from different sources, including a pool TV camera, ship’s security cameras, etc, and then broadcasting it (as it came in) to different news agencies, etc, including the IHH, which was what I saw, live. They used a secret frequency to try and avoid Israeli jamming.
The Turkish coordinator of all this was shot relatively early, from a helicopter, so it’s not at all surprising that there was great confusion.
Whether the person who was killed was actually Furkan Dogan or not (there is no visual evidence of who it was, and will be none while Israel holds all the passengers’ media) the fragmentary sequence shows a deliberate murder.
You can see testimony from a very involved eye-witness here:
link to youtube.com
I’m not suggesting that you have become a media whore, but I do feel you should consider your high standing in the blogosphere before you apply it to condemn a few out-takes of video, thereby casting doubt on perhaps all of the only true evidence we have.
Thanks, everybody should see this, barrage every newspaper editor and website with it.
Richard, I’m sorry but I have to agree with Paul Woodward here. The only thing I can conclude from this video is that 2 commandos are beating someone who’s lying down (cowardice, but we knew that) and then pointing something looking like a rifle and maybe firing. Let me explain :
- We just can’t know if it’s Furkan or another one of the 9 people dead (or maybe just injured)
- This weapon doesn’t seem to be a paintball gun, there’s no hopper (container for the paint balls). We see the “soldier” kind of pumping. Paintball guns have a CO2 cartridge, you don’t manually pump air, or at least I hope for them that the IDF doesn’t use Super Soakers. We can assume this is not paintball.
- The pumping motion may also be interpreted as loading a single bullet inside the chamber, but that’s a bit far fetched.
- We don’t see a muzzle flash and there can be various explanations for that. First, they may have used a supressor, in which case the flash is not visible. Another explanation is due to the fact that flashes are only a few milliseconds long, and the video is between 25 and 30 frame per seconds. I think it was Shingo that gave this explanation, but in cinema, you just add the muzzle flash in post production because it’s really hard to capture them on film while filming.
- This can be a kind of non-lethal weapon, like a flashball. Just remember that at this kind of range (maybe no more than 1m between the tip of the cannon and the person lying on the ground), flashballs can be lethal. So in this case, the “soldier” is being ruthless, maybe wanting to kill somebody already under control (read “beaten to a pulp”)
Just to be clear : I’m sure it’s not a paintball gun, and that the commando is acting like a huge ahole. But I just can’t be sure with these images that he’s in fact executing someone, granted I’m not a military expert.
If I can correct you, this is not “our only true evidence”, because of the way it was altered (music, visual commentary, etc…) that are just the work of someone who wants to point your mind in one direction and not let you think. This is using the same methods as Israel, and we should not do that, unless we want to be delegitimized ourselves.
(damn, I just realized I already wrote all of this on the same page, in different posts)
Israel’s defenders on this website are like circling vultures, coming in to pick on the remains of Israel’s savage attack, as if their beaks aren’t going to get bloody like Israel’s blood stained and murderous hands.
I’m glad someone’s still around and, ahem, off the leash to keep the creative metaphors at the forefront.
Very apt description.
They will quibble over small details in the hope that it legitimizes the murder of civilians in international waters.
I’m pretty sure these freaks were also justifying the organ trafficking as well.
That’s religious-nationalism for you.
Israel was founded by mostly secular Jews, you are confusing them with Hamas.
“Israel was founded by mostly secular Jews, you are confusing them with Hamas.”
Israel was founded by Zionist terror gangs and is now in the hands of religious extremists, exactly like Hamas, only more murderous.
Ken O’Keefe may be a bit of an exhibitionist. The tattoos, the unwashed bloodstained face, and the overwrought language, only help to give this first-sight feeling.
But his testimony, in every specific detail, is reinforced by the stories of other activists on board:
You can see testimony from a very involved eye-witness here:
link to youtube.com
(Excepting that every contribution by Ken O’Keefe is entirely missed out)
I hope the rest of Lee’s clip contains more incriminating evidence than the bit selected. From a legal point of view I don’t see how the Israelis can be nabbed on the footage shown above. There is nothing shown (for obvious reasons) of the actual clashes and confrontations between the Israeli soldiers and some of the protesters who fought back to show a) the soldiers shooting at people who posed no threat b) using excessive force c) what the protesters who fought back did. The footage of the wounded being cared for and other bits are not really relevant to the most controversial events under scrutiny.
I do hope so too. More important, we’ll maybe have a timeline of events, as everything we saw until now are bits and pieces occuring at different times, often without any timestamp of any sort.
Well said. Hopefully entire unedited footage will be released, with blurring rather than cuts.
Just to keep things in their proper perspective here:
“The attack took place in international waters against ships flying under national flags of countries with which Israel is not at war, namely Turkey, Greece and the United States.…
Since no state of war existed at the time, the attack on these vessels constitutes an act of war against those governments under whose flags the vessels were sailing.…
Because this attack was carried out in international waters, the status of the relationship between Hamas, or any other Palestinian body, and the state of Israel is of no relevance whatsoever. Likewise, neither the blockade of Gaza nor Israel’s claims and legal interpretations regarding it has any bearing on its acts of aggression in international waters.…
It is irrelevant what Israeli ministers, generals, admirals, or soldiers thought or intended. The test is in what they did. What they did was engage in acts of war using weapons of war in international waters against vessels that are protected not only in peacetime but also in times of war. Israel has therefore committed both crimes against the peace and crimes against humanity.…
Every single act carried out by the Israeli military forces in international waters on May 31, 2010, are unqualifiedly and absolutely violations of international law.”
In simpler terms, the israelis were committing multiple crimes and there is really no other legal way to view the attack. So whatever happened to these cheeseheads while they were committing those crimes, they legally deserved it. Legally the israeli leadership giving the orders and the individual members of that israeli ss unit are all liable and all could be internationally tried and convicted just like the WW2 nazis were at Nuremberg.
Israel will counter-argue that a state of war does exist between Hamas and Israel even if war wasn’t officially declared. It states that Gaza is a “hostile entity”. Apparently under the San Remo something or other treaty under certain circumstances a country can take offensive interception of a vessel in international waters if it believes that said vessel constitutes a security threat and is delivering weapons or fighters to a “hostile entity”. I know it is bullshit, you know it is bullshit. But apparently UN chief Ban ki Moon is still weighing the legal implications of Israel’s raid in international waters.
I think they conducted raid in international waters for a variety of reasons – claim no court has jurisdiction, make sure flotilla doesn’t film offshore gas rigs, and they can claim ‘self-defense’ of the ‘pirate ship flotilla’ in international waters.
No, it’s quite illegal according to everything I’ve read – the “legal” arguments always stem from a very selective interpretation.
It needs to be an ENEMY vessel according to the San Remo rules – it wasn’t, it was neutral. Secondly, Israel is not providing enough aid to the population of Gaza, so whether or not Israel is at war is irrelevant. And Gaza is not a state.
see:
link to original.antiwar.com
and :
link to antiwar.com
and read the comments section :
link to slate.com
I forgot to source that info I posted above:
“According to Jewish Peace News, Linda Brayer is “a human rights lawyer who specializes in the laws of war and international law in representing Palestinians and who lives in Haifa.”
link to dissidentvoice.org
lareineblanche, I think this post by Craig Murray is pretty much the only evidence you need.
Craig Murray is a former British Ambassador. He is also a former Head of the Maritime Section of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. He negotiated the UK’s current maritime boundaries with Ireland, Denmark (Faeroes), Belgium and France, and boundaries of the Channel Islands, Turks and Caicos and British Virgin Islands. He was alternate Head of the UK Delegation to the UN Preparatory Commission on the Law of the Sea. He was Head of the FCO Section of the Embargo Surveillance Centre, enforcing sanctions on Iraq, and directly responsible for clearance of Royal Navy boarding operations in the Persian Gulf.
And that too! In fact, it’s hard actually to dream up an interpretation where it WOULD be legal.
Israel appears pretty adept at that. Rewriting international law etc., playing the role of victim, fabricating and doctoring evidence, twisting, spinning and squirming. Don’t write Hasbara off just yet. But as the saying goes you can fool a lot of the people a lot of the time but not everybody always.
The problem with Hasbara, claiming self defense etc is that Ist
it’s wearing thin, just like anti semitism. Israel are using it gratuitously and fewer and fewer people are buying it anymore.
In the first interview I heard from one of the released activists, he said that the helicopter attack had come in 2 waves and the first was met with resistance from the activists on deck that overpowered the first 3 IDF guys coming down the ropes, disarmed them and dragged them down to the lower deck where they held them but had refused to use the confiscated IDF weapons. When the second wave began, it started with the IDF shooting from the helicopters and from the other ones that landed on the deck.
Does that mean that the IDF did not intend killing anyone but that the IDF guys lost it after the first 3 were captured and this is when the shooting actually started? I don’t know but I’m inclined to guess that this is what happened as I doubt Israel sent in the IDF to assassinate people. Had this been the case, there were more politically important people on the ships worth killing for Israel than the non politically involved Turks. This still does not justify the assassination of the 9 Turks or the random shooting of the other 45 activists. Israel’s past record of assassinating hundreds of people doesn’t help its case and as Erdogan said, it has to be punished for what it did. After they lost the first 3 soldiers, the IDF should have backed off instead of starting to kill people. If the story did develop as the guy being interviewed said, it may explain what triggered the shooting spree but it still doesn’t make it an issue of self-defense in any way as it’s being claimed. It was an Israeli massacre, pure and simple.
BREAKING NEWS: Canadian Government to put Pixies on list of “terrorist” organisations June 11, 2010
It has to be a hoax.
The people mentioned in the report have been in the news for being shills for the Israeli lobby in Canada, and they have managed to do some of its dirty work (diverting foreign aid from Palestinian refugee agency, banning a speaker from entering Canada that the Jewish/Zionist lobby was against).
Still, I am going to wait for some other sources. This is just too bizarre.
“It has to be a hoax.”
I doubt it. They are so far deep in their asses that nothing should come as a saurprise any more. Everything they do now is just pathologically motivated. Pepe Escobar has an answer as to those motivations: Fear!
“The method in Israel’s madness”
By Pepe Escobar
“There may be a very simple answer to all these questions: fear”
link to atimes.com
TGIA, the Asia Times link is not working for me; found your article on Huffington too:
link to huffingtonpost.com
I checked now..For me it works..
Israel continues on its path of getting hated everywhere. This is getting ridiculous especially after yesterday’s story of new laws being considered in Israel outlawing boycotts against it.
Dude….whoa…wwwait, hold on. I’m catching my breath here, nearly choking on my own tears as I try to contain my laughter….The Pixies on a terrorist list?
If this turns out to be accurate and true (i.e. not a hoax) then, WOW. Canada has gone NUTS.
Avi, Canada too had a clone of Bush and he’s the last one left standing, Harper.
Yes. I’m quite familiar with that psycho. Canada elected him twice, now the Netherlands has put the far rightwing racist party in power. This fascism seems to be going in cycles from continent to continent.
Canada has gone NUTS.
If anyone was going to do it, it’s Peter Kent. His involvement and comment are typical of his sucking up to the Israel lobby, which would put most Israel-Firsters in America to shame. That’s the only reason I believe the story is true; it’s really too absurd otherwise.
Peter Kent used to be a good reporter. Maybe he was affected by the neighbourhood where he lives. Frrom the G&M of this February:
“… Junior Foreign Affairs minister Peter Kent is suggesting Canada stands ready to throw its full military weight behind Israel, telling a Toronto publication that “an attack on Israel would be considered an attack on Canada.”
His office says Mr. Kent, the minister of state for Foreign Affairs of the Americas, was merely “paraphrasing” what Stephen Harper has said in the past regarding Israel. “
PressTV coverage of News Conference
link to youtube.com
IDF videos of captain and crew
link to terrorism-info.org.il
One is up on IDF Youtube
link to youtube.com
You can also find Iara’s 14 mins on youtube:
Part 1
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgZ_nbbXqB4]
Part 2
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku3TRxHGkIM]
More than a few very graphic first-hand British flotilla passengers’ testimonies are shown at link to counterfire.org
These are important; they are sober accounts of people’s own experiences, before they become ‘yesterday’s news’ as rachel and the MSM have determined.
One thing though, what is this list of people ? Anyone speaking Hebrew care to translate ?
On the back page it reads: “list of boats and passengers”.
This goes to support the theory that the IDF had planned to execute some of the passengers.
The official Israeli line is that they only used lethal force when they felt their lives were in danger. This video shows that lethal force was used in the second attack when the wounded soldiers were being treated below decks.
At that point, the Israeli military knew for sure that the passengers had nothing but sticks and slingshots. In order to achieve their goal of taking control of the boat and taking back their soldiers (without negotiating) they had a less violent option. If they’d sent in riot police in force, they could have taken control of the boat with no major injuries.
The Israelis willfully chose to kill.
This account about the second attack coming with bullets flying repeats the Interview I was referring to that said the same thing. The Israelis may have chosen to willfully kill but it does not confirm that they came to kill. I think it was due to their usual messing up but this time, 9 people died.
If there was a “kill” list, Cheikh Salah would have been at the top of it because he’s a big pain in Israel’s side. He wasn’t killed and neither were any prominent politicians. The list was probably to make sure these people and their belongings got scooped up in the arrests.
Sheikh Salah wasn’t killed because the goons shot Ibrahim Bilgen instead link to lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com.
Walid, you are being entirely too charitable. The Israeli goons had a hit list that was completed and printed perhaps only hours after the ships left Antalya. Every goon had a copy of the hit list, and knew he’d get a few points if he ‘got one’.
The ‘scoop’ was aimed at individual video, etc makers who might have seriously interrupted the official legend
Which they have done, anyway, thus emphasising the IDF goons’ incompetence.
it does not confirm that they came to kill.
Agreed. As I wrote, this does not conform that they came to execute anyone. However, the video that is circulating of the killing of Furkan doesn’t make sense to me as just messing up. Why bother with an execution when they could have subdued him with less than lethal force. Doesn’t taking the time to kill someone like that slow down a commando attack. What about all the people watching, including the videographer?
Those testimonies are very, very good. You will get nothing like this in America.
What is interesting, and convincing about them, are the small personal details of assaults and insults; adding up to an overall horrendous assault by trained goons, all spouting the new Israeli lie: ‘We have right to defend ourselves!
It is possible the list is a non-target list, those for whom the political fallout of a fatality might throw out the calculations of mad-dog-deterence/hasbara-needed. e.g. if they had ‘accidentally’ killed an ‘important’ American, like the Liberty survivor.
Could be, yes. Can anyone confirm that anyone on that list shown was one of those killed?
The only targets on that list are those that can be assassinated without public international outcry.
Hanin Zo’abi, for instance, who showed extraordinary courage and initiative in interviews, during interpreting sessions in the Mavi Marmara’s makeshift hospital, and in broadcasting surrender appeals over the ship’s Tannoy, was not on the list.
Otherwise, she would be dead, and not going through the shit she’s suffering now in the Knesset and elsewhere.
If anyone does, she deserves a Noble Peace Prize.
Jewish supremacists are trying to have her killed. I hope she remains safe. These freaks are truly disgusting to threaten this woman just because she wanted to deliver aide to fellow Palestinians in Gaza.
Maybe you could create a new post about the 1 hour video, so that we can start the commenting on a clean sheet ?
Why did the IDF goons and the Israeli government steal the media from the passengers? Their video/audio/pics/etc.?
Give it back if you have nothing to hide.
Let me spare Menachem the effort and take the role of the hasbara artist
See, it’s easy. That’s in substance what I read on The Lede comments.
Yea, I wouldn’t put it past the Zios to use that logic.
The inter-workings of the IHH according the the Captain of the Mavi Marmara.
link to youtube.com
Thank you Menachem, this first hand Account from the Captain of the Mavi Marmara teaches us a few things
1) That there was a highly organized and well equipment cell of IHH that were in control of the upper deck and prevented others from reaching this secured area
2) That the cell fashioned weapons consisting of metal poles and chains by cutting them off the ship itself.
3) That by correlating this Captains testimony with the video evidence, it is shown and proved that these are the same IHH cell members that lynched the commandos with the weapons they have fashioned, in fact the metal poles that the captain describes are clearly seen in the video.
Menachem, great job please keep this information flowing.
Again, I don’t know how long I have on this website to post the truth, dissent is heavily moderated and it’s very hard to get the truth through the information and free-speech blockade that is active on this website in abrogation of its stated comments policy.
Long Live Israel
Long live my arse.
it’s very hard to get the truth through the information and free-speech blockade that is active in Israel
There, I fixed it for you
Get lost you little Hasbara turd.
If IHH were such bad asses with such dubious motives, why uses pieces from the ship to defend themselves and not bring real weapons along for the fight?
Or is a fight with the IDF Gucci army only fair unless the odds are stacked 100:1 in favor of your dough boys?
Interworkings my ass. We see a victim of illegal kidnapping forced to answer illegal interrogators. Diffusing this video is also a violation of the Geneva statutes.
All he says, anyway, is that he didn’t see who cut some railings. Even if it’s not a crime not to understand Turkish, you didn’t even bother to read the subtly tendentious almost-mistranslation in the idiotic subtitles that amounted to zilch. Anyway, railings are none of the business of the Israeli SS. Passengers and crew had every right under the law to kill every single armed pirate during the invasion, and that insistence by Propaganda-Abteilung shitflies like you doesn’t change facts.
Diffusing this video is also a violation of the Geneva statutes.
I already saw this argument claimed, about the footage of the passengers on the port. Is this in the IVth Convention ? Any infos on this ?
Remember when the US made a big hoopla out of the few prisoners shown on Iraqi TV during the invasion (we were upholding Geneva IV, yarright!) Later it was brought to attention again when USGov did all that official pornography with the bodies of the Sadat family, then a number of prisoners.
Being no lawyer, I can see only this: Either Geneva IV applies, or the Israelis were committing pure and simple banditism instead of an act of war, in which case they should be treated as a private mafia instead of a state, and the Turkish criminal courts would be competent.
Watched the video and the other one of Mehmut Tuval, captain of the Mavi Marmara.
- Videos not released by the IDF or its spokesperson, but via the “Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center”. Nice move, trying once again to disguise people as terrorists.
- Once again, wildly edited footage, with no timestamp.
- I don’t speak Turkish, so I can’t say that the translations are false or right. What I can say is that IHH appears a lot inside brackets, like when they use arrows and text comments on a video to show you “look, here, we’re right, think like us”. Don’t forget we regreted that for the alleged “Furkan’s death” video.
- Are we even sure those 2 guys are really the captain and chief officer ? Can’t find anything about them, except hundreds of pages linking to this videos.
- The questions “did they control the ship”, “did they let people move around” etc… insinuate that they were controling the ship in a “bad way”, like imprisoning people. Weren’t they preventing people (like women and children) of getting on the deck when they knew IDF would attack, thus protecting them ?
- Only thing they “prove” in these videos is that there were people from IHH cutting parts of the ship with grinders. That goes along with their theory they were looking for a fight, so they must be skinheads looking to beat up some jews. It doesn’t prove nothing else, and certainly not the most important question I have : did the IDF shot live ammo before boarding the ship ?
Has you like to say, menachem : “So much wholes”
sorry about the link tag I forgot to close…
Does this general know that this ‘deterrence’ thing is a two way street?
Ok, I’ve watched the hour-long video from cultures of resistance. There’s not a lot to say.
- IDF clearly engaged the hostility when they fired paintballs on the passengers from the zodiacs + threw some stun grenades (around 36 minutes in the video). They also wanted to really frighten and provoke them : red paint balls ? Come on, don’t say you’re not looking for troubles.
- There are weird bangs starting at 38:25. They seem different from the sound the paintball gun made, but I don’t know what it can be or where they come from.
- What kind of weapon is the laser sight you see at 39:32, clearly coming from above (and almost 100% sure the helicopter), attached to ? I don’t quite understand what the man (Turkish photographer, it seems) is saying.
- Starting at 41:25, I see 2 ropes and being launched and 9 commandos sliding down.
- Loud bang at 42:47, quite different from the paintball sound, followed by somebody saying something sounding like “pistol” (not sure about the audio part, the man wearing the red keffyeh is talking arab or turkish)
- Once again, loud bang at 43:14, followed by somebody (the bald man) saying something in turkish sounding like “pistol”, shortly followed by the first casualtie being dragged inside
- At 43:34, I have no more doubt : 7 gunshots followed by 4 blasts (is this the good word ? rapid firing, like a machine gun)
- At 44:16, bearded man shows a list of people found on a commando.
Images here : link to img816.imageshack.us
- At 45:25, a commando is brought inside the ship. The bearded man says “here comes another soldier” and later “we hold 2 soldiers down there, bleeding and wounded”
- Around 47:05, french girl says “Why did they shoot, he’s got holes, he’s got holes in the belly” the second responds “that’s not real bullets, that’s marbles“, the first one says “in any case, marbles or not, it hurts you”
- Starting at 50:52, people are beind a door with a broken porthole, trying to protect it. There’s a laser pointing at the wall, seems to come from out outside via the porthole (I don’t see anyone with a laser pointer inside), then we hear 2 shots. Laser point continues to move on the wall, then a while later, more shots. Someone is saying “le hill allahi allah”. We don’t see any paint splatter on the wall, so we can assume that the laser pointer is not attached to a paintball gun.
- At 51:08 a bullet impact appears on the wall. Image : link to img257.imageshack.us
Sorry for the highlighting, I don’t like to point to evidence, but it’s not that visible, but just watch the video, this is clearly not self defense, just killing. At first I thought it was dust on the camera, but it’s always at the same place on the wall. One guy jumps on the floor, but we see him later, he doesn’t seem to be wounded. From the whole sequence, the only thing I can conclude is that those men are trying to protect the entry of the area where the wounded people are. They are doing so with wooden sticks, chains and metal poles, and they are fired upon via the porthole by the IDF.
- Starting at 55:00, we can see the sun is clearly rising from behind the boat. As MRW stated above :
That corroborates Ali Abunimah observation that the boat was fleeing and the IDF was clearly chasing them.
- At 56:00, we can see Ken O’Keefe and another man moving someone who seems to be dead on a stretcher while there are more gunshots.
My conclusion : the IDF clearly initiated the hostility (firing blood-red paintballs from the zodiacs + stun grenades). That may be non-lethal, it’s nonetheless illegal. We also know they used some kind of lethal weapon (rifle maybe) using a laser sight, and we saw laser points on the deck before the commandos boarded, so they had those lethal weapons in hand before sliding down the rope. Did they fire from the helicopter, I don’t know. But the more important point : when the guys were behind the door, they weren’t a threat to the commandos life, but they got shot at. This is clearly not self-defense, but just plain killing.
Sorry for playing my little Sherlock Holmes, but frankly, I wonder which media will take the time to watch the video and analyze it. I hope what I wrote could help.
Hum, over at Craig Murray’s blog, a comment suggest that paint balls doesn’t “explode” and leave such a huge splatter. It might be also that paint is thicker than blood, and leaves a more compact stain, something like that.
If anyone cares to translate what the photographer is saying.