I get a circle-the-wagons feeling from Israel's defenders in Washington. Thomas Friedman's column the other day was unhinged, lumping Oliver Stone with the British Prime Minister, and not acknowledging what has changed world opinion, the slaughter of civilians and denial of human rights to Palestinians for decades. Richard Cohen, who wanted to sing Hatikvah when he read Walt and Mearsheimer's book, is equally unbalanced in The Washington Post.
The piece is about two English writers viewing the Arab world: an unsigned review in the Economist of a biography of Islamic fundamentalist Sayyid Qutb and a book called The Arabs by Eugene Rogan of Oxford. Cohen says both scant Qutb's anti-Semitism. "Can it be that a mere 65 years after the fires of Auschwitz were banked, anti-Semitism has been relegated to a trivial, personal matter, like a preference for blondes -- something not worth mentioning?"
Cohen jumps to anti-Semitism throughout the Arab world, and anti-Zionism. Is it true, as Cohen states, that racism against Palestinians inside Israel doesn't approach the invective against Jews in the Arab world? I don't know, and I don't know that it matters; both must be condemned. More important, which is the applied prejudice? Palestinians must wait at checkpoints and cannot go to the beach, 1.5 million of them live in an open-air prison camp, their villages are wiped from the map. Cohen ignores this while imagining a second holocaust perpetrated by Arabs. This is an important column because it demonstrates what motivates so many American Zionists, emotion, fear of being wiped out. Is it rational? And important too because it demonstrates that Cohen, who once acknowledged that Partition was a "mistake," and Friedman are reduced to the essential job description of the Israel lobby, to defend by any means fair or foul. Cohen:
Critics of Israel frequently accuse it of racism in its treatment of Palestinians. Sometimes, the charge is apt. But there is nothing in the Israeli media or popular culture that even approaches what is openly, and with official sanction, said in the Arab world about Jews. The message is an echo of Nazi racism, and the prescription, stated or merely implied, is the same.
The Economist and Rogan are insufficient in themselves to constitute a movement. Yet I cannot quite suppress the feeling that the need to demonize Israel is so great that the immense moral failings of some of its enemies have to be swept under the carpet. As Jacob Weisberg pointed out recently in Slate, the "boycott Israel" movement is oddly unbalanced -- so much fury directed at Israel, so little at countries like China or Venezuela. Can it be that the French philosopher Vladimir Jankelevitch was prescient when he suggested years ago that anti-Zionism "gives us the permission and even the right and even the duty to be anti-Semitic in the name of democracy"? The line between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism, a demarcation I have always acknowledged, is becoming increasingly blurred.
“both must be condemned.”
We’re waiting.
One of the reasons that there is not “applied” anti-semitism in Saudi Arabia, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, Egypt, etc. is because there are so few Jews remaining. In green line Israel there are 20% Arabs. There is no other country in the world with 20% Jews, to test your thesis of “applied” anti-semitism against.
It would be honest to name it as a guess, a suspicion, not an observation.
The description of 1,500,000 in a prison IGNORES that that condition exists in context of violence. The context of violence does not excuse the tragedy of their experience, but it does ALTER the explanation of cause and remedy.
Dissent is barely a starting point. “This is wrong.” Yes, we all agree.
“This should be done. This is how we will get it done.”
No, we don’t agree.
Iran has the second largest Jewish community in the ME, Witty. Explain that. Ahmadinejad has a point when he claims that he’s not an anti-Semite. Anti-Zionist Jews like neturei karta from Israel or elsewhere get along with him just fine.
The Jewish community in Turkey does just fine as well.
I wonder sometimes whether the confrontational course Israel has taken towards Turkey at least partially aims at the Jewish community in Turkey – to increase anti-Semitism and emigration to the ‘safe Jewish homeland’. Do the Turkish Jews have a better pedigree than the Russian Jews?
You are joking about Jews in Iran Antidote.
There are now 20-25,000, (down from ten times that number, down from 6 times that number at the time of the revolution) all in Teheran and one other city. Every four years or so, they arrest some on suspicion of spying in conspicuous racially tinged PR threats.
Neturai Karta is a fringe of a fringe group. “Some of my best friends are Jews, you know Neturai Karta”.
The point to Phil was that it is easy not be “anti-semitic”, when the population is token. Who could the Iranian Jews for example threaten, at .06 of the Iranian population. Its apples to oranges.
I’m not joking Richard. Iran does have the second largest Jewish population in the ME, whether the numbers are down or not. I know NK is a fringe group. No, none of my best friends are NK. So what? None of my best friends are Palestinians either. Why do Jews become a threat once they make up a certain percentage of the population? At what percentage do Jews become a threat? Jews and threat – now that’s apples and oranges. No, I’m not joking.
Who do you think is treated better Richard: Iranian jews in Iran, or Palestinian muslims and christian in Israel/OPTs?
The point to Phil was that it is easy not be “anti-semitic”, when the population is token.
That’s quite an ignorant “point”, Richard. The German population in 1933 was 66 million. 600,000 were Jews. Under 1% of the total population. You keep pulling “points” out of your *ss that have no relation to reality.
Antidote- to cite a relatively stable Jewish population (stable since 1955) like Turkey’s despite its small size has validity in demonstrating that tolerance exists in at least one place in the Muslim world. Citing Iran’s Jewish population which plummeted after the Khomeini revolution, shows an absolute lack of seriousness on the subject. People naturally stay where they were born. The fact that one sixth of them stayed is not a sign of welcome but a sign of the human desire not to move.
There is no justification for less than equal due process under the law in all locales. Jews don’t get it in all Islamic countries currently, including Iran.
Phil’s comment was on Cohen’s noting the double standard on Israeli anti-Arab sentiment and application (definitely more than is right) vs Cohen’s observation of often state and religion-promoted anti-semitism and institutionalized subordinated status in Arab and some other Muslim countries.
If “relatively good” (or not even) is good enough for Jews in Turkey, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Iran, why should it not be enough for Palestinians?
Its a dumb question. “Relatively good” should not be enough for anyone anywhere.
Jews at any percentage are not a threat.
Neturai Karta is not a fringe group in Israel. It is part of the large pre-Zionist Jewish community, most of which is represented by the Edah Haredis, and all of which is vehemently antiZionist. These are the people that actually control Jerusalem by means of fanaticism.
Haggai Ram could have used you for a case study of Israeli “moral panic,” Witty.
link to eastwest-review.com:
“…I would be the last person to deny that there had been discriminatory policies against Jews in Iran and persecution. But that is something that happened in the distant past. There about 30 thousand Jews left in Iran, it is the largest Jewish community in the Middle East outside of Israel. Their reluctance to come to Israel shows two things: that these arguments equating Iran with crude antisemitism and even with Nazi ideology are exaggerated and are spread for propaganda reasons in Israel and abroad. A couple of years ago the leader of the Jewish community in Iran said “We are Iranians first and then we are Jews.” In other words, this is their homeland, this is the country of their origin, this is where they have all their emotions and all their material and spiritual attachments to. This is it. So however hard it may be for them to live under an Islamic regime, it is not an option for them to leave Iran. Because Iran is where they live, this is their country, this is their homeland, where their families are, their friends, businesses and they could not think of any other place where they could live. So, again, there is a sort of antisemitic trend within Iran, but it is not as harmful and injurious as many people would have us believe. On the other hand, yes, these people are first and foremost Iranians and then they are Jews. There is one more thing that should be emphasized – even after the revolution, when many thousands of Iranian Jews chose to flee, they couldn’t at all imagine coming to Israel, because to them Israel was the Orient, the backwards, stagnant place, which is why these Iranians ended up in countries of Europe and on the West and East coasts of the United States. This is also something the Israelis could not understand, Israel is supposed to be a haven for the Jews after the Holocaust, this is where the Jews should come and be sovereign, but nevertheless, after the 1979 revolution, only a very limited number of Jews, around 10 thousand decided to come to Israel. The great majority spread around Europe and the United States. Another interesting phenomenon is that there are Jews who had emigrated to Israel after the revolution and then after a couple of years, 5-7 years they went back to Iran. Precisely because they could not stand the discriminatory attitudes against them by the majority of Ashkenazi Jews, and on the other hand, because of their deep attachment to Iran, which they could not overcome. So I think that this phenomenon of Iranian Jews living in Iran completely defies the allegation that modern Iran is a new Nazi Germany.”
Neturai Karta is a fringe group in both Israel and in the US.
The largest group that is anti-Zionist is the Satmar sect. Most of the haredi groups were anti-Zionist until 1948 (accepting reality, even if not desiring state oriented Zionism).
I don’t know which ultra-orthodox group(s) are responsible for the 50 or so buses in Jerusalem that demand women to sit in the back. No more appealing to secular Israelis and the average European/American Jewish immigrant, male or female, than the ‘Iranian threat’. The disproportional demographic growth of the ultra-orthodox increases the pressure to attract new immigrants in order to prevent Israel from becoming a theocratic and anachronistic society.
link to youtube.com
It’s a coalition, which includes NK as well as the Satmar. And it is all antizionist.
RW is, as usual, distorting truths he finds inconvenient to his zionist cause.
As far as I know, NK is an organization that consists almost entirely of Satmar Chasidim.
One would think that besides interviewing Jews who remained in Iran, one would interview Jews that left Iran. Jews in Iran are a hostage group. Jews who left Iran would probably be more honest.
Because obviously the only honest Jews are the ones who are loyal to Israel, huh? And any Jew that remains in his actual homeland is obviously surrounded by murderous villains, huh.
Seriously. Zionism is racism. Here we are, racist comment, right here on Mondoweiss. Someone going to do something about it?
WJ – “People naturally stay where they were born”
No argument here, see also my post below (citation of Haggai Ram).
My point about Jews in Muslim countries was simply this:
not all Muslim countries are the same, and the ones that have demonstrated hostility to Jews generally also display such hostility to other ethnic and religious minorities. The Islamic revolution not only drove away Jews, but they often stand better chances to be able to emigrate to Israel, NA or Europe than other minorities in Iran.
Witty wrote:
“Every four years or so, they arrest some [Jews] on suspicion of spying in conspicuous racially tinged PR threats.”
Fine. Proof of what? Anti-Semitism? How about Sunni Muslims, Christians, Zoroastrians, Bahais and others?
Anti-Semitism has somewhat dominated research and public discourse on religious/ethnic discriminiation in Iran. Yet even reports to the US congress and recent announcements by the State Dept. point out that the Bahais, who are not even protected by the Iranian constitution, are much worse off than Jews, Sunni and Christians. In addition, the discrimination and government harassment of Iranian Jews appears to be the result of an anti-Israel/Zionist rather than an anti-Jewish bias
link to iranpresswatch.org
link to state.gov
“Jews in Iran are a hostage group. Jews who left Iran would probably be more honest.”
I could imagine the same being said about ‘Jews in Israel’ or ‘Iranians in Iran’, and it would be just as true/untrue
Honesty and objectivity are like apples and oranges
Neturai Karta is a distinct sect from Satmar. They don’t get along as far as I know.
5/6 of Iranian Jews left. That 1/6 remained says little.
It is an ignorance to dismiss the fear that is intentionally spread through the Jewish community when individual Jews are conspicuously rounded up on politically trumped “spying” charges.
There is then popular violent agitation against the Jewish community.
It makes the Dreyfus debacle look tiny, insignificant.
1/100th of American Jews left. That says more.
Yes Witty, Iran DOES have the second largest Jewish community in the Middle East.
There are 25,000 Jews in Iran, up from 10,000 right after the 1979 revolution. None of them have agreed to accept the bribes from Israel to mirgate to Israel.
One was arrested on suspicion of spying since 1979. When Roger Cohen of the Ney York Times visited Iran, he said he felt more welcome in Iran as a Jew than any part of the world.
“It makes the Dreyfus debacle look tiny, insignificant.”
Ironically, it was Zionism and the creation of Israel as the alleged homeland of all Jewish people that greatly increased the credibility of old anti-semitic charges regarding the issue of ‘dual loyalty’.
“No, we don’t agree.”
Correct, because as a faux-liberal you don’t have anything of worth to offer Palestinians (or Israelis for that matter), and resent anybody and everybody who wishes to alter the status quo using standard non-violent tactics.
Do I need to recap on your famously useless suggestions on how to solve the Palestine/Israel conflict?
1. Green yarn on the green line
2. Talk
>> Dissent is barely a starting point. “This is wrong.” Yes, we all agree.
>> “This should be done. This is how we will get it done.” No, we don’t agree.
Shame on you, RW, for rejecting something just because it’s not perfect. Ah, the rejectionist hypocrisy of it all…
No proposal again, just ridicule?
No wonder we’re stuck.
Who is stuck, Richard?
More and more people are coming to understand what Israel is *actually* about, and the BDS Movement is growing in leaps and bounds.
Excuse me? You come around here and mock Phil Weiss, Max Blumenthal, Ali Abumilah (sic probably, apologies), Norm Finkelstein, Medea Benjamin, Edward Said, etc. ALL THE TIME.
Don’t go lecturing people about ridicule, you troll.
>> No proposal again, just ridicule?
>> No wonder we’re stuck.
We’re stuck not for a dearth of valid, balanced proposals but, rather, because of your insurmountable hypocrisy regarding many (most?) aspects of the I-P issue. You have earned the ridicule you receive.
The description of six million Jews in a prison IGNORES that that condition exists in context of violence. The context of violence does not excuse the tragedy of their experience, but it does ALTER the explanation of cause and remedy.
Again, the Zionist applies vicious standards to his victims, while demanding that the world shed tears at his own narrative.
The prescription for Israel to save itself from delegitimization is to remove the double standards that pervades its ideologies and supporters, and in practice of government, the apartheid state of Israel.
Critics of South Africa frequently accuse it of racism in its treatment of black Africans. Sometimes, the charge is apt.
Yes, and no one of substance made the claim that criticism of apartheid South Africa was anti-white racism, as Cohen is insisting with regard to criticism of israel and “anti-semitism” in his op-ed.
Here we go again. The old “everyone hates the Jews” line trotted out to avoid the real issues.
Well, there goes cohen’s reputation for “even-handedness” and “open-mindedness” re the Israeli-alestinian problem. My only wonder is how he wasableto keep the mask from slipping all these many years.
Remember Cohen (and WAPO columnist Mary McGrory, now deceased) leaping to proclaim that Colin Powell’s lame United Nations speech convinced them of the need to attack Iraq? Within days, Powell’s speech was debunked – mobile biological weapons labs, indeed. I watched the speech and it was obvious while Powell was full of BS; he was playacting OUTRAGE and it was obvious how weak he was on facts.
How do people like Cohen and his ilk in the Washington elite become so easily convinced? They’re going along with something. They decided they have a right to do that, for their own careers and personal preferences, go along and not think even if its promoting a war. What has to happen for them to have any humility?
I think you may be confusing Richard Cohen (WashPost) with Roger Cohen (NYT). Roger’s about the best we’ve got in the mainstream while no one ever accused Richard Cohen of being even-handed or open-minded!!
Cohen is a shameless propagandist. His articel denying that Israel was becomming an apartheid state was a farce, especially comming so soon after Barak’s warning that this is where Israel was headed.
Do the US and the West subsidize China, North Korea, and Burma with billions in financial and military aid every year?
Do the US and the West look the other way when China, North Korea, and Burma sell top-secret US military technology to hostile foreign powers?
Do the US and the West excuse and defend every human rights violation by China, North Korea, and Burma?
Do the US and the West veto every UN resolution condemning China, North Korea, and Burma, regardless of the merits?
Do the US and the West subvert their national security interests to those of China, North Korea, and Burma?
Do the US and the West hold the rest of the world to a higher standard than China, North Korea, and Burma?
Do the US and the West excuse as “mistakes” attacks by China, North Korea, and Burma on US Navy ships that kill 34 and would 175?
Do the US and the West rewrite history to justify the actions of China, North Korea, and Burma?
Do the US and the West reflexively condemn UN investigations into human rights violations by China, North Korea, and Burma before even reading the reports?
There would be no need of a BDS movement were the US and the West to hold Israel to the same standards as every other nation. The BDS movement is a result of one thing, and one thing only: our blind favoritism towards Israel, a favoritism extended to no other nation.
Hold Israel to the same standard to which we hold other nations and the BDS movement will wither away.
Unfortunately, and I’m sorry to say this, but American politics and American media both revolve around the notion of Jewish privilege — and presently, it’s Zionist who get to dictate what Jewish interests are supposed to be.
I’m not saying that as a bout of anti-Semitism. I’m saying it because it’s definably true and statistically recognizable. At one point the Senate had fourteen Jewish Senators representing a 2% minority. African Americans, meanwhile are a 15% minority and they’re lucky if they’re even represented by one Senator at any given time.
Surely is just a coincidence that two of the 43 Black members of the 111th Congress are being investigated for ethics violations.
Further coincidence that both of those Black representatives are outspoken opponents of war.
Even more coincidental that as Repub. caucus was working on H Res 1553, greenlighting Israel’s attack on Iran, Rangel once again tabled his Bill calling for a Draft of all Americans between 18 and 42. Rangel’s message: If you vote for war, you are going to have to vote for the blood of YOUR children to be spilled. THINK.
I wonder if the guy they’ve arrested in Atlanta for those attacks on blacks in Michigan, Virginia, and Ohio on black men as he was trying to board a flight to Tel Aviv is an Israel First fanatic unhinged by hatred of Obama. Man in custody in serial stabbings. He is thought to have killed five men, as well as wounding several.
Rangel knows what war is. For his bravery in combat in the Korean War when his unit was surrounded, he was awarded a Bronze Star with Valor, as well as a Purple Heart.
He appears to have an Arab-Israeli name so in that case he is probably not a member of Israel First.
“I don’t mean to be anti-semitic, but Jews control America”…
i think it is 5 black members being investigated.
I only wish the Black Caucus were outspoken against Zionist racism.
has he been labelled a terrurist yet, or is that reserved for Muslims?
He stabbed 20 black people in 3mos. time. In media reports before his arrest he was said to have ties to white supremacist sites, etc. Now no mention of that. News crawls say “Israeli citizen”.
I read he was an Arab Israeli with US residency–and a violent streak.
“Elias Abuelazam, an Israeli citizen living in the U.S., was arrested on suspicion of involvement in a string of 20 stabbings that left five dead.”
Seems to be a whack job.
link to haaretz.com
Does the US Congress pass a resolution that China, Burma or North Korea are wonderful, wonderful friends and allies and the greatest thing since sliced bread every time one of them commits some bad act? No. But thats what they do when its Israel. What a smug attitude it is that with warmonger Israel, everyone is supposed to shut up and take it.
On one of their stops on their initial book tour, Mearsheimer and Walt concluded their speeches with the recommendation: “The US should treat Israel like any other state in the world with whom US has relations.”
You would have thought M&W proposed the sacrifice of the firstborn of every Israeli family. My the wailing and gnashing of teeth: “Israel is surrounded by people who hate us.” “We need security.”
Great. This is the truth serum that needs to be injected to get Cohen speak the truth.
Also Cohen should thank Economist for highlighting on a disoreinted angry Egyptian. Cohen should mourn over the facts that so many books and articles have been written by wellknown academics on Israeli duplicity but not been reviewed by Economist nor by its genre.
Excellent comparisons, Gaius.
Here’s my version</a of the same meme, with hyperlinks attached.
Israel claims Operation Cast Lead was good and necessary for Jews as was the attack on the Gaza Flotilla. The failure of Jews in our media, such as David Remnick, to report on Jews who oppose occupation and ethnic cleansing, can’t help but lead people to think that Israel’s Jewish leaders are representative of Jewish thinking. Rather than pay attention to this media vacuum, the guilty party — our media, covers over its failure by explaining it away as antisemitism.
The failure of Jews in our media, such as David Remnick, to report on Jews who oppose occupation and ethnic cleansing, can’t help but lead people to think that Israel’s Jewish leaders are representative of Jewish thinking.
and what of journalists who are not jewish? the idea of a ‘jewish thinking’ or an ‘arab thinking’ or a ‘white thinking’ or any other kind of ‘ethnic thinking’ belies a falsehood wrt the way human nature works.
no amount of media or propaganda could ‘lead me to think’ there is such a thing as ‘ethnic thinking’ because i know better. personal experience aside , common sense and education ‘leads me to believe’ there are jews who oppose occupation and ethnic cleansing just as there are people in every walk of life who oppose such things.
furthermore there are jews all over the place making very loud noises opposing this stuff, percentage wise far more than the rest of the population of this country sitting on their asses doing nothing about this except signing the check. it’s the responsibility of all of us as citizens to stop this injustice. the crime, the wound in that region..as an americn i am an accomplice as is every american jewish or not.
there’s a growing swell of americans opposing this atrocity and i think it’s important we speak in a voice, a voice of american resistance joining the global resistance. the frontlines of that resistance need people from all corners. we’re all responsible.
Jewish journalists in our media who complain about the antisemitism of critics of occupation and ethnic cleansing, who, at the same time, deliberately don’t report on Jews who are in opposition, contribute directly to the very problem they complain about. Jews are members of a religion not an ethnicity. The problematic journalists operate as if there were such an absurd thing as “Jewish thinking.” My problem is not with how they do their job, but with the fact that they don’t do their job as journalists.
cohen is a total hypocritical peace of shit.
Jewish journalists in our media who complain about the antisemitism of critics of occupation and ethnic cleansing, who, at the same time, deliberately don’t report on Jews who are in opposition, contribute directly to the very problem they complain about.
of course, in fact journalists in our media who complain about the antisemitism of critics of occupation and ethnic cleansing, who, at the same time, deliberately don’t report on Jews who are in opposition, contribute directly to the very problem they complain about.
this is nothing new. it’s no different than deflating the numbers at peace demonstrations during the vietnam war. they always hide the anti war brigade. aipac and ziocaine groups always try to portray themselves as representing the masses, and not just jews either. the entire msm narrative is pro zionist. it’s certainly isn’t confined to jewish journalism. where are all the non jews w/balls too? that’s all i’m asking.
what israel does hurts jews, i’m totally down w/that concept. i’m not trying to disagree w/your point i’m just trying to spread the responsibility to outside the jewish community and that goes for congress too. whoever’s drinking the koolaide is responsible. i don’t care if it’s christian zionists or nancy pelosi or richard cohen. anyone peddling israel’s bs is bad for israel, bad for jews, bad for palestinians and bad for our world.
I agree we are all responsible, annie. I keep trying to get people I know to care, but most don’t. If I keep pushing them they think I’m obsessed with an issue not as important as what they care about, which are in a nutshell, the usual tea party issues. They don’t even think about foreign policy except many take the attitude we have to fight terrorists over there so we don’t have to fight them here, and they honor the troops verbally, sentimentally (and neither the oldsters nor the youngsters ever contemplated joining the military service). Mostly they ignore all my attempts to get them involved and never comment on the I-P situation when I email them something on that subject, or on Facebook, etc.
Does Richard Cohen speak either Hebrew or Arabic to know what is often discussed openly in Israeli or Arab media, or does he merely rely on propaganda organizations like memri and camera — or perhaps his own prejudiced assumptions?
How would Cohen characterize the systematic stereotypes and prejudice peddled by both Israeli media and the Israeli school system?
How does Cohen feel about Holocaust denial? He’d most likely be against it as would any decent human being. But, what would Cohen call Nakbah denial? Is the fact that the mere existence of Palestinians in historical Palestine omitted from school textbooks in Israel and in the media a non-issue for Cohen?
Surely, if Israel and Cohen can hide behind all sorts of justifications and excuses in explaining away the Nakbah, then so can the average Nazi in regard to the holocaust and the extermination of Jews, Ukrainians, Poles, gays and the mentally challenged. Is Richard Cohen prepared to do so? Is he prepared to peddle the typical Zionist propaganda in explaining the absence of the Nakbah from Israeli media?
Palestinian school textbooks, those which are issued by the Palestinian Authority, discuss the holocaust. They may not discuss it at length dedicating several chapters — and entire textbooks — to the event, the way Israeli textbooks do, but they do discuss it as part of the atrocities committed leading up to, and during, WWII.
As for the so-called Arab world at large, Cohen needs to understand that the people of the region understand, acknowledge and comprehend the difference between a non-Zionist Jew and a Zionist Jew. In discussing Israel and its policies toward the Palestinians and neighboring countries, many in the Arab media often use alternative names. Some refuse to recognize the state as a legitimate political entity, especially since it was founded on the destruction of an entire people. Thus, they avoid mentioning the name “Israel”. They refer to it as the “Zionist state”, a name that is quite apt, I might add.
Yet, others, refer to Israelis as “Jews”, on the one hand recognizing the religion of Judaism and its adherents, but refusing to recognize the political entity that is Israel. Therefore, in the absence of a political entity known as “Israel”, the Jews of the Middle East would merely be “Jews”, hence the usage.
Somewhat off topic, but still related to the topic at hand is the subject of religion. From a religious perspective and as a general rule Muslims revere and consider holy, Jewish prophets and Christians ones (Excluding the concept of the Trinity). Meanwhile, neither Christians nor Jews revere or consider holy, the Muslim prophet Muhammad. Nonetheless, the propaganda often peddled in the west claims that a Muslim’s duty is to convert non-Muslims or kill them if they refuse to convert. While a handful of fanatics in the remote mountains of Afghanistan or in the squalid slums of Cairo, may subscribe to that belief, one based on twisted religious dogma, the vast majority of Muslims do not subscribe to such fringe beliefs.
As an side, when discussing either politics or the role that which religion plays in politics, one must make a distinction that is applicable to both Israel and the Arab world. That is to say that religion is sometimes used to achieve political goals, be it in Israel, Jordan, Colorado, Wasilla or Bangladesh.
The last pope pointed out that Islam is an “Abrahamic” religion. But, you know what, it doesn’t get through to people, not here in the US, anyway. I wonder if most people don’t see religion as some kind of “label” and tune out, i.e., don’t think about it.
Natan Sharansky anchors zionist Jewish identity in the Exodus story, that is, in Moses and by extension Joshua and the conquest of Canaan.
As I read “Iranophobia,” it was impossible not to hear the theme that Israelis seek desperately to reject their Abrahamic roots: Israelis seek to be WESTERN; oh, does Israel yearn to be Western; Western Europe, THAT is the affirmation Israel craves. Iran and Palestinians (conflated in the Israel that Haggai Ram perceives) represent barbaric, uncouth, dirty Oriental Middle East people, (to the extent that those other can be classed in the same category people as WE, European zionist Israelis).
Israel is undergoing an identity crisis of massive proportions: Is Israel Abrahamic or Mosaic?
In Der Judenstaat, Theodore Herzl wrote, “We are ONE PEOPLE.” “We are ONE PEOPLE.”
In practice, Israel has appended a footnote to Herzl’s declaration:
But THOSE Jews, those Mizrahi, Abrahamic Jews, THEY are not one of US.
Robert Fisk’s new piece talks about how Israel has for all practical purposes become an undeclared member of the EU.
Aren’t members of the EU bound to observe the European Convention on Human Rights, and subject to judgments of the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg on whether they are observing the convention?
“Allah” is the word used for “God” by both Christian and Moslem Arabic-speakers. In fact, essentially the same word was already used in Syriac, an ancient Christian liturgical language, by Syriac-speaking Christians soon after Christianity was born (and still the liturgical language of many Christians in the Middle East). Syriac is a dialect of Aramaic. I would be interested to learn if, as I suspect, this is also the word for “God” in classical Aramaic, and thus the word that Jesus used for “God”.
I believe “Elohim”, the word for “God” in Hebrew, is cognate with “Allah”.
“I believe “Elohim”, the word for “God” in Hebrew, is cognate with “Allah”.”
Exactly..Arabic for god as in a Greek god for example is ‘Elah’..Elahi is “my god”. Also when a Muslim appeals to Allah he/she says ‘Allahum’ which again is a reminder of one origin.
They both derive from “El” the ur-semitic word for “god”.
What we have is geopolitical conflicts fueled by religion, same as it ever was. You can describe all Abrahamic religions as humble and peaceful, but there has not been a single ‘peaceful’ Christian, Muslim or Israelite/Zionist ruler in history between Saul and Netanyahu, Constantine and Obama, Abu Bakr to Ahmadinejad. So what else is new?
Religion is secondary; it is merely the by-product wedge issue of the geopolitical conflict, mostly on the Israeli side. The Judaization of “Judea and Samaria” and East Jerusalem comes to mind.
In general, however, you are correct as far as human behavior goes. But, it’s not limited to religion or geopolitics. Go to any schoolyard and you’re bound to find a group of kids taunting or bullying the kid with the freckles or the red haired kid, or the “book nerd”. It’s an issue of power, “Us” vs. “Them”.
antidote, fueled by religion w/massive amounts of propaganda thrown into the mix. there are lots of seculars fueling this madness too.
oh, i see avi’s just made the point much better.
I don’t disagree with either one of you. We tell our kids that bullying the freckled kid is wrong, and then need to spin things to justify bullying on the world stage. That’s where propaganda comes in: turning the outsider into a threat to justify aggression
check out this podcast:
link to cbc.ca
Cohen’s point is to associate Hamas with the Holocaust, via Qutb:
All we’ve gotten for the last 9 years is Muslim hating and specifically Muslim hating instigated in large measure by Jews like that Pam woman with the website (“Atlas something”). From 10:30 AM September 11, 2001, all we’ve gotten is Muslim hating and demonizing the Muslim Religion.
I remember an Ashley Banfield show on MSNBC (she got canned for being too evenhanded) with young Israelis and young Palestinians and one of the young Palestinian men said that the “72 Virgins” crap was something that Israeli media had always used to dehumanize Palestinians. Remember the video that was played instantly all over TV of Palestinians celebrating 9/11 and it turned out to be a set up, someone was handing out candies or something.
Why wouldn’t Arabs hate Jews? Its 60 plus years of living under Zionist terrorism, warmongering, stealing, false flags to instigate attacks on them, demonization, bribing US politicians to give Israel weapons to terrorize, double standard treatment at the United Nations, etc. Yes, there are some Jews who speak out against it . . . a little.
That’s Pamela Geller, the self-depicted (and heavily made up) live Super action figure who loves all European and American fascists so long as they hate Arabs and the Islam religon:
link to wn.com
The larger, the overwhelmingly larger reality, berthe, is that Arabs DO NOT hate Jews.
Consider Izzeldin abu Laish, whose daughters were killed by IDF in Gaza, who, the day after his daughters were killed in Gaza was verbally attacked by Israelis and told that, essentially, his daughters must have deserved to die, and STILL, Izzeldin abu Laish tells anyone who will gather to hear him: I DO NOT HATE.
Consider also this poem which is a kind of anthem for the Iranian people (Iranians do Islam in a unique way — with an Iranian accent; Islam inflected by Iran’s far older indigenous culture and Zoroastrian principles (as well as festivals and traditions). That’s one of the tensions in Iranian culture, by the way — between secular/Iranian culture and too-harshly imposed Islam. Most Iranians come down somewhere in the middle — accepting of a government with Islamic principles in its structure but without government forcing oppressive practice that are, ironically, neither mainstream Islamic nor culturally Iranian). What was my point — this: this poem is emblematic of Islamoranian value set. When zionist propagandists distort the Iran reflected in this poem, the Iran that I know and cherish, it makes my blood boil.
one more thought: in the US, poetry is incidental; in Iran, poetry is central to culture. Every Iranian thinks and speaks in the poetry of Iran; it shapes their mental architecture as well as their lived spaces.
The Guest House
This being human is a guest house.
Every morning a new arrival.
A joy, a depression, a meanness,
some momentary awareness comes
as an unexpected visitor.
Welcome and entertain them all!
Even if they’re a crowd of sorrows,
who violently sweep your house
empty of its furniture,
still, treat each guest honorably.
He may be clearing you out
for some new delight.
The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
meet them at the door laughing,
and invite them in.
Be grateful for whoever comes,
because each has been sent
as a guide from beyond.
~ Rumi ~
Good post. Not all Israelis are Zionist propagandists, and one reason why the admirable Izzeldin abu Laish was able to not hate indiscriminately is that he worked in hospitals in Israel, and had much more opportunity of positive interaction with Jewish Israelis/Zionists than the average Palestinian in Gaza or even the WB. See also:
link to haaretz.com
Is Cohen even accurate about Qutb? His entire brief seems to be that the New York Review of Books called Qutb’s views “as extreme as Hitler’s.” Cohen provides a link to a NYRB article, but I did not find that quote there. Qutb might have been an extreme anti-Semite – I have no idea – but I wouldn’t take Cohen’s word for it. He seems to assume this Hitler-like attitude, and asks how two writers could have writted extensively about Qutb without mentioning it, but unless I missed it in the NYRB article, Cohen’s only source does not back him up.
When I mentioned Cohen’s piece on another thread here on Mondoweiss yesterday, somebody pointed out to me that the Economist review in fact does mention Qutb’s anti-Semitism (which presumably means that the book being reviewed did as well). Cohen seems to have gotten that wrong as well.
Paul Berman’s “Liberalism and Terror” discusses Qutb’s Jew hating views at some length.
“Liberalism and Terror,” huh. Sounds suitably right-wing kooky.
Interestingly, the NYRB article linked by Cohen as support for his claim is a very negative review of Berman’s two books, including this one. Of course, if Cohen is going to quote someone and gives a link, that quote should appear in the link. Even assuming Qutb was a genuine anti-Semite, which from my perspective may or may not be true, Cohen’s thesis is that his anti-Semitism was so extreme and Hitler-like that he could not be discussed at any length without mentioning it. At best, Cohen was sloppy with his link but generally accurate about Qutb. Given that this was a jumping off point for hysteria about Arab genocidal intent against Jews, I see no reason to give Cohen the benefit of the doubt.
The NYRB reviewer, Malise Ruthven, seems to start by endorsing the Qutb/Hitler equation and praising Berman (Cohen may not have read beyond this point) but to proceed in a long essay to cast serious doubt on it and upon Berman’s general credibility. One of those ‘all very complicated’ things.
Qutb was the ideological forefather to Al-Qaeda. To present his views as a representation of the views of the Arab world is disingenuous at best.
‘The Power of Nightmares’ by the BBC is a documentary I’d definitely recommend. It has a lot about Qutb/Jihadiism and the parallel neo-con movement that developed in the US.
so, according to cohen and sanctioned by wapo the message in the arab wold is an echo of Nazi racism.
nothing like ratcheting up the discourse.
“nothing like ratcheting up the discourse.”
..and not providing any sources or actual evidence to back up his vague statements.
Like any other journalist who publishes online Cohen has the opportunity to link to content to support his statements. Glenn Greenwald (for example) does this so extraordinarily well and has a mountain of my respect as a consequence. In his piece on Goldberg from a few weeks ago I count links to no less than 36 sources;
‘The Jeffrey Goldberg Media’
link to salon.com
Cohen manages 4 (only just – he links to The Economist twice), and sees fit to make the arab/nazi statement without providing a scintilla of evidence. How condescending. How very Witty to make unsupported statements.
Cohen –> go to hell you racist dinosaur, and take a copy of the Arab Peace Initiative with you as reading material.
any day now tablet’s smith character will be writing an article accusing cohen of ‘arab baiting’ and carving out a piece of wapo’s ass/not.
If only Annie, if only.
The Guardian on growing islamaphobia in the US:
‘Ground Zero mosque plans ‘fuelling anti-Muslim protests across US”
link to guardian.co.uk
One of the hotspots of islamaphobia, and person most responsible for the campaign against Corboda House (the “Ground Zero mosque”) is one-woman hate machine Pamela Geller: faux-objectivist, zionist, and former contributor to religious zionist settler rag Israel National News (Arutz Sheva).
She’s responsible for the anti-mosque bus ads, and with Robert Spencer runs the groups “Stop Islamisation Of America” & “Freedom Defense Initiative”. At her own blog (Atlas Shrugs) she’s advertising a SOIA/FDI-run anti-mosque protest at Ground Zero on Sept 11, with speakers such as John Bolton, Newt Gingrich and dutch hater Geert Wilders.
This whole anti-mosque/muslim campaign smacks badly of some Karl Rove-style splinter campaign designed to hijack mainstream discourse even further to the right. Thomas Frank dealt with Rove and his hijinks in the 2008 book “The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule”.
Again, note the attendance of Newt Gingrich (the GOP on their way to adopting islamaphobia as party policy) and John Bolton (founding member of the Friends of Israel Initiative, islamaphobia in the US being good for Israel). Likewise, Geert Wilders is a huge fan of Israel..
What is the purpose of Zionism? What is the purpose of the Jewish State? Can Jews live and culturally develop in geographic Palestine without the need of a state? The problem is insisting on a state and then saying one can be wiped out if one can’t keep it. This suggests an enormous lack of confidence among many Jews and their supporters. This lack of confidence leads to a great amount of violence. Violence in defense of Idolatry of the State. It is this idolatry, this absolutely only solution of Jewish presumed morale building in Biblical Palestine, this violence that upsets Arabs, Palestinians, in their relations with Jews, Israel. When Palestinians defend themselves violently, as the Israelis defend themselves, or the Palestinians defend themselves non-violently as in the village of Bilin, Israelis claim to be threatened. The “crime” here of the Palestinians is to defend themselves at all. Those Jews better versed in Judaism than I am know the prayer shawl and any other Jewish objects can become an idol rather than a means. Why not the same with an idea, with this State? Idolatry blinds the eye, as religious Jews say in Synagogue every week. The State is not the essential part of Jews being in Biblical Palestine. The essential part is Jewish presence there in a cultural flowering for those Jews that want to be there. Surely on day one of serious negotiations the State need not be tossed out. Two states may be necessary for a period given that one state is not attempting to control the other. It may very well be the Jewish population of this area will never be high enough to maintain a unitary Jewish State in the medium term. The only security that can follow from this is to build healthy political, economic and social relations with the Palestine Arabs in one State. That is what at least nearly all the Palestinian Arabs want anyway. What is there to be scared of here? The idolatry should stop, this blindness should stop, and peace pursued.
Baruch, I’m not sure I understand or agree with everything you say, but I do love the following remarks: “The problem is insisting on a state and then saying one can be wiped out if one can’t keep it.” “The State is not the essential part of Jews being in Biblical Palestine. The essential part is Jewish presence there in a cultural flowering for those Jews that want to be there.”
As a Jewish American, I and every Jew I know has had the opportunity to be as Jewish as we want to be, even though we are only a tiny percentage of the US population. Why can’t Israeli Jews, whose percentage of the entire area’s population is at least half, enjoy the same freedom I have without the apparatus of a Jewish State? Why is it necessary for Jews to claim “sovereignty” and “self-determination” when those are just code words for domination over people of different ethnic backgrounds?
“As a Jewish American, I and every Jew I know has had the opportunity to be as Jewish as we want to be, even though we are only a tiny percentage of the US population.Why can’t Israeli Jews, whose percentage of the entire area’s population is at least half, enjoy the same freedom I have without the apparatus of a Jewish State?”
David, are you sure that you can compare U.S. with the Arab world?
I’m not sure at all.
Of course you’re not sure, AT ALL.
Your prejudices would get in the way of facts and real life experience.
Unlike the typical American Zionist, even those who live in the Middle East stay in their ‘gated communities’ like the wonder bread WJ who behaves like the prejudiced white man of the 1970s, lost in Harlem, scared stiff expecting them black folk to walk up to him and stab him in the face as soon as he walks north of 96th street.
Go visit Damascus, then spend some time in Dubai and then take a drive up to some remote village in Saudi Arabia, you’ll get the same experience as you would if you visited rural America, urban America and the Bible Belt.
Just make sure you don’t wind up on some Al-Qaeda video. I hear they tend to hide under every bed, behind every door and around every corner.
If you go as single person and you keep your Jewishness for yourself, no problem. If you go in group or you dare to show your Jewishness – not sure at all.
I’ve now read Cohen’s article, prompted by lysias here a couple of days ago, and also now the allegedly offending Economist review. I have no plans to read the works of Sayyid Qutb.
The book, as presented by the review, pictures Q as a rather sad person, not an advocate of terrorism, unjustly persecuted by Nasser, struggling with Western culture. The reviewer draws attention to Q’s view that the ME was under attack from an alliance of ‘Crusaders and Jews’. I would have thought that almost every reader of the Economist would treat that as an anti-Semitic phrase and thus be notified – without any explicit comment to the effect that ‘This is anti-Semitism!’ – that there was an anti-Semitic strain in Q’s thought. So it isn’t basically true that Q’s anti-Semitism is just overlooked.
Q’s anti-Zionism isn’t much emphasised in the review. The emphasis is on Q as a lost soul in the Egypt of his time, first attracted by its secular ideology that he then abandons, interested in but basically repelled by the West and all it stands for.
Cohen’s own presentation of Q as an anti-Semite is contained in minimal snippets, which don’t amount to serious argument. He says that Q blamed Jews for ‘atheistic materialism’ and ‘animalistic sexuality’. It’s possible that Q is commenting on Spinoza and Marx as influential atheists – which may be a little crass in a number of ways, but doesn’t amount to a serious insult. ‘Animalistic’ – what’s that in Arabic? – sounds more insulting and racist but without context we do not know what is really being said – we might face no more than a rather overwrought comment on Freud.
Well, perhaps Q was in reality an utter monster: as I say, I’ve no plans to read his voluminous work. I don’t think Cohen proves that he was a monster, or even that he was much worse than he is painted in the Economist.
Cohen then goes on to suggest that it’s increasingly doubtful that there could be anti-Zionism without anti-Semitism. If anyone even hints that known anti-Semites had reasons for anti-Zionism that are independent of anti-Semitism that person must be anti-Zionist and an anti-Semite. Any objection to Zionism must be conveyed amid fairly frequent references, and much stronger objections, to anti-Semitism. This seems to be a rule that makes any unreserved objection to Zionism impossible and thus makes the range of acceptable attitudes to Zionism run from moderate to enthusiastic approval.
Mhughes976,
I think this comment might reflect your — and out — cultural learning.
Here is Jeffrey Blankfort from a few week ago describing the fact that the term “Jew” in Israel is the accepted description of nationhood when it is the case. Why would you expect Qutb to think or speak any differently, coming as his does from the region. As Jeffrey Blankfort July 26, 2010 at 10:19 pm makes clear
And that is so true throughout Northern Africa; ever been to Morocco?
Blankfort has many thoughtful and factual comments on that thread:
link to mondoweiss.net
Of course, I mean “and our.”
What Chaos said.
Chaos4700 August 12, 2010 at 9:26 am
“Unfortunately, and I’m sorry to say this, but American politics and American media both revolve around the notion of Jewish privilege — and presently, it’s Zionist who get to dictate what Jewish interests are supposed to be”
Totally true. Ever run into a teacher’s pet in grade school? Who ‘enjoyed’ being the teacher’s pet and lorded it over the other students.
That’s the mentality of the zionist and too many Jews. We are ‘special and entitled to special treatment…so there.
As the holocaust recedes they are desperate trying to hold onto their ‘special treatment”…so it’ anti semitism and holocaust 24/7.
Everyone is sick of it. Especially because of what they DO on their holocaust get out of jail free card.
So count me as not sympathic to the screeching and demanding and whaling.
Sickening.
Just for reference.
Today is Phil’s birthday, 55.
May you live a long life, be healthy, in good relationships, and do good in the world.
You mocked and slandered me for pointing out the overbearing influence of the Jewish-Israeli lobby in US politics and then you turn around and tout your “special relationship” with the blog owners thereafter?
And you guys let him post this?! This got through moderation? You guys are letting him, basically, hang a lampshade on the exclusivity of Jewish fraternity and rub it in the rest of our faces?
Incidentally? This just proves the point I was making even further.
Just as some American writers & TV pundits are anti-Jewish (&/or anti-Black &/or anti-immigrant), no surprise that, likewise, some Arab are anti-Jewish. But what’s the evidence that this translates into anti-Jewish sentiment among the arab masses? Certainly not from what the many Jews who have stood beside the Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank over the past few years. With rare exceptions their experience can be summed up with these words, “The Palestinians were elated when I told them that I was Jewish”. That was my experience both in West Beirut during the ’82 U.S. supported Israeli invasion of Lebanon and in Gaza and the West Bank during the First Intifada. Outside the Dome of the Rock, one young Palestinian was sceptical as to whether it was possible for a Jew to side with the Palestinians. Otherwise, Palestinians sometimes would volunteer that they had no grudge against Jews, per se, only Zionists.
Some American TV pundits are anti-Jewish? Who? I can’t think one. And some contemporary American writers are anti-Jewish? Who? Name a few. Ditto re anti-Black.
You are right, anti-Jewish pundits are almost nonexistent but for the anti-black or anti-immigrant tune there’s Fox news.
Some time in the not too distant future the conversation about Israel is going to turn to the bottom line the zionist dread most…which is:
The US and the American people do not ‘owe’ the Jews anything.
The world does not owe the Jews anything.
No one is responsible for exterminating the Jews as well as all the others they exterminated in their camps except some long gone and dead nazis.
That is the bottom line truth and it’s time we put the holocaust propaganda about how everyone is guilty and responsible for the Jews out of business.
is Grover Norquist’s Wednesday group still meeting? iirc they used to meet in DC each week and discuss the talking points for the next week.
looks like Cohen, Greenberg are on a talking points list.
Unless I am mistaken, Cohen and Greenberg are both based in New York. And I don’t think Norquist would invite to his lunches people who have so signally failed to endorse his anti-tax obsession.
However, that needn’t mean that some Israel Firsters in New York have not decided to imitate his technique.
What Israel has done to earn the trust of Arabs?
“A predecessor, Yitzhak Shamir, admitted after his own defeat in 1992: “I would have conducted autonomy talks for 10 years, and in the meantime we would have reached one-half million souls in Judea and Samaria.” Concern over Netanyahu’s real intentions grew recently when a 2001 tape emerged of him saying, in essence, that he had played the Clinton administration for fools. “I know what America is,”-N Aruri-August 12, 2010 by the Providence Journal (Rhode Island)
David thank you for picking out the essence of what I wrote above and expressing it so in a reply. Jews and others have perhaps many reasons for why they must have a “Jewish State”, though much of that support is from in my view unreflective conformity. Your view appears to be unburdened by excessive history, unburden by old wounds.
Isn’t this just 2) They Suck and 4) Everything sucks
“Is it true, as Cohen states, that racism against Palestinians inside Israel doesn’t approach the invective against Jews in the Arab world? I don’t know, and I don’t know that it matters; both must be condemned.”
How honest from Philip to admit that he doesn’t has a clue about anti-Semitism in Arab world and how impartial from him to assert that both must be condemned. It is of course easy to blame those critical voices against the Palestinian and Arab mentality of trivial pro-Israel lobbying . But is even this not a clear prejudice, considering that the writer himself admits that he doesn’t know enough about the issue?
Well, maybe it’s finally time to open the eyes and take seriously the reality rather than continuing to grope in the dark of prejudice.
link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org
“Jewish virtual library.”
Talk about unintentional double entendre.
Incidentally, check out the mastermind behind it:
link to jewishvirtuallibrary.org
So does he know where the WMD’s are in Iraq? I mean Iran? Or did I mean Iraq?
“Is it true, as Cohen states, that racism against Palestinians inside Israel doesn’t approach the invective against Jews in the Arab world? I don’t know, and I don’t know that it matters; both must be condemned.”
How honest from Philip to admit that he doesn’t has a clue about anti-Semitism in Arab world and how impartial from him to assert that both must be condemned. It is of course easy to blame those critical voices against the Palestinian and Arab mentality of trivial pro-Israel lobbying . But is even this not a clear prejudice, considering that the writer himself admits that he doesn’t know enough about the issue?
Well, maybe it’s finally time to open the eyes and take seriously the reality rather than continuing to grope in the dark of prejudice.
Evidence hopefully to follow if it passes through the censorship …….
I’m sure your “evidence” will come from the most reputable of sources, like an academic study or a reliable poll. Right?
Have you seen jonah post links from anything other than sites run by AIPAC lobbyists or IDF soldiers?
If there is anti-Semitism in the Arab world, shouldn’t Jews be making efforts to show that they are not the monsters that the Israeli government makes them seem?
Avi, so you don’t believe that these Arab and Palestinian anti-Semitic cartoons are reliable, right?
And why this, if you are so kind to explain?
Islam accecpts the fact that people who are followers of Judiasm,Christianity and of Prophet John and do good will go to heaven.
Judaism cant respect Islam or Christianity in a religious sense for Islam and Christianity came after it.Accecpting them as legitimate in religious sense would undermine its own religious validity .The same applies to Christianity vs Islam. I guess this is the argument that could be applied to Islam vs religion that appeared after Islam had come.
Avi,
Maybe this can help you overcome your unbelief.
A letal obsession
We’re really asking a lot of Palestinians not to hate Zionist Jews. In fact, a lack of such hatred in any Palestinian would be tantamount to haven given up the fight, and quite suspicious for other Palestinians. And yet, how many Palestinians hate the Jews who live in Uruguay? Zionists have no choice but to wave the anti-Semite wand: they have no other magic, least of all “law” and “rational” thinking. Israel is a European State, the last great colonial project begun just as all the others were imploding. We’ll see what History’s Justice will do to it.
Krauthammer in today’s WaPo calls building the mosque at Ground Zero a “sacrilege”: Sacrilege at Ground Zero. Midway through the column, we discover Krauthammer’s real sore spot, the mosque imam’s refusal to condemn Hamas: