Ahmed Moor in Cairo spoke today to Phil Weiss.
The people who started the violence today were secret police. We know this because often they were caught and their ids were found. The method was, they would try to start problems-- these muhabarat-looking guys--and the protesters set upon them very quickly
Do pro-Mubarak protesters represent a real strand of public opinion?
No. Their objective is to redirect the narrative. Most of these people are policemen, people with interests in the current regime. Some of these people were wearing civilian clothing for the first time. Convoys of these people were directed into Tahrir Square. I felt it was coordinated from the top, calculated. I don’t think this is a legitimate segment of Egyptian society. Some rode in on horses, one on a camel, wielding sticks. They were subdued. It would have been a lynching if others hadn’t intervened. People would step in and say, No you can’t do that to them. There is a real effort on the part of lots of the protesters, to keep things peaceful.
I'm happy to say that I don’t think any of the animals were hurt. But we are galvanized by it.
We got very scary reports today from Tahrir, including the word massacre. How bad was it?
I just got back [at 8 p.m. Cairo time]. These clashes lasted from 3 to 6:30. There were lot of head wounds, caused by rocks, people throwing rocks at one another. But Tahrir square remains with the anti-government demonstrators. There are way more of us than there are of them.
At the north end of the square there was a lot of action: that arcade was filled with skirmishers, and the army was near the museum, not participating. Pro-gov't forces climbed one of the buildings and threw down rocks, flower pots, miscellaneous items. And anti-gov't forces used the army trucks as barricade. You had a kind of front, and people at the back were bringing stones to the front. They brought them in boxes and crates. Or they had blankets, four men holding the ends, filled with rocks.
This was going on for several hours. We held Tahrir.
There is anxiety on the part of people around the world who are on your side that these tough measures will break the democracy movement.
These are tough people. You have to remember that the regime started clamping down last Wednesday, and we overturned the police force even when they were using rubber bullets, sticks and live ammo. These people are not about to relinquish this space due to a gang of motley thugs. You have to remember Tahrir Square was taken by force to begin with.
Has the storyline changed? Is there doubt and demoralization?
The story line is not at all changed. What I’ve said is that this is a zero sum game. The moment that people decide we are going to play ball with Mubarak, the muhabarat will come back, the secret police will come back and seize people in the night. 'We saw you January 25, 26, 27, 28.' There will be a day of reckoning. That is the risk in anything other than Mubarak's ouster. Anyone on tv who has expressed an opinion or carried a sign is vulnerable.
We’re not talking about forgive or forget. There is no reason to expect Mubarak to forgive and forget. Last night we saw him contrite and conciliatory on tv. Those are generous words. In fact today we see again his forceful measures. He started the violence.
You are saying that people are undaunted?
People are undaunted in Cairo. Utterly undaunted. They've put all their eggs in this basket. They've put everything they’ve got into this movement, and there is no going back at this stage.
What's next?
Ok so what's next for the protesters is-- Mubarak get out. After that people want elections. I don’t see this ending in any other way. Mubarak has to leave. It seems that he's very reluctant to leave in an undignified way. The protesters are aware of that and they don't want him to get a dignified exit. The time for forgiveness is past.
Could Obama permit Mubarak to save face and leave?
I don’t see how. Mubarak set out his terms yesterday. He wants to stay until September. We know what this means. In period of intense social discontent, he pretends to make reforms, uses flexibility as a tool of his regime. He makes a token concession, and as soon as that crisis is surmounted, the concession is repealed immediately. People just don’t trust him.
Do people talk about a coup?
I've heard nothing about a coup to be honest.
Do they talk about Obama?
Not so much. One of the difficulties, this is the first day with the internet back. Al Jazeera is blocked. The focus isn’t really on the Americans. John Kerry’s statement was positive. But I cant tell you what people think about obama.
Is the joy and excitement still there?
We’ve reverted to the rage of the early days, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday. Over the weekend, there was exuberance, the sense of confidence at taking the square, a million plus showed up. And this morning things seemed more normal, shops were open, there were carts in the street. Then at 2 or 3 o'clock it all broke down.
People’s perceptions are, if the regime can do this in such a sleazy and underhanded way-- it just got people angry all over again. I'd be astonished if we don’t see masses of people on the street tomorrow.
What about the army's position?
There is confidence among people on the street that the military is committed to not playng an active role on the ground. And the feeling is, If you stay out of this, we can do this on our own.
What about dragging Mubarak out of his palace?
State institutions-- and we don't know if he’s in Cairo or Sharm?-- but the state institutions are surrounded by tanks.There's no going in and breaking into the parliament or his palace. Saturday, when the ministry of interior was burned, I saw three bodies in the street from clashes, young men trying to break in. Well the police were very entrenched Saturday, and then the military took over Sunday. I don’t think another institution will be taken again. Unless people decide to.
How important is international opinion?
International opinion is important to the extent that it impacts the regime. Look, there aren’t many people in the world who thought of Mubarak very highly. We’ve known the west relies on him. Does the west rely on him any less now? Can he convince people that he’s the best bet? We hear that Netanyahu is calling Europe and the U.S., do what you can to support Mubarak, we’re not going to get anyone better. People are angry about that.
Do you hear talk of the Israel/Palestine conflict in Egypt?
I have an accent, and so people ask me where I'm from. I'm Palestinian, from Gaza. So I have been hearing a lot about it. They say, 'You know what, this is the first step to the liberation of Palestine, this is the first domino. Once Mubarak goes we’re going to lead the Arab world again, and liberate Palestine.'
There is a feeling that Egypt is going to be redeemed and take its historical role on the Arab stage as a leader, and through that, Arabs will be redeemed. This is the Egyptian national mythology-- Nasser, 1973-- Egypt as the cultural beacon for the Arab world, and the leader economically and militarily. That is part of Egyptian pride. So I've seen that on the street. Watch-- when we take our gov't back, the rest of you will also benefit. This is the first step.
“The people who started the violence today were secret police. We know this because often they were caught and their ids were found. The method was they would try to start problems, get surrounded– these muhabarat-looking guys–and the protesters set upon them very quickly”
Sounds just like the methods used in the anti war marches against the war in Vietnam. Tried and true methods.
Ahmed I am not a twitter person. Anyway to get the international Twitter crowd to keep chanting to the anti Mubarak Egyptian protesters PEACEFUL PEACEFUL PEACEFUL. You folks have set the PEACEFUL PROTESTERS BAR VERY HIGH. So many of us support your PEACEFUL PROTEST.
Hopefulll someone will start a Twitter Peaceful chant. Have so much respect for the efforts to stay PEACEFUL. We are with you in your PEACEFUL EFFORTS.
Some observatios from watching CNN, MSNBC, Fox, Cspan for four days.
Jamie Rubin seems to the appointed spokesperson for Israel. Everytime he speaks he brings up bad bad bad Iran. Also keeps repeatig that El Baradei does not have the name on the Egyptian streets. Undermining El Baradei.
Richard Engel also seems to be undermining El Baradei.
Zbiniew Bryzinski (sp?) was on Morning Joe the other day. As is almost always the case he made so much sense. Talked about Mubarak’s history. How there needed to be a round table, a respectful way for Mubarak to step down. Wish we heard from him more often on the evening programs.
The MSM keeps bringing up protest in Yemen, Algeria, Jordan, etc but absolutely NO MENTION NOT EVEN A WHISPER ABOUT THE PROTEST THAT HAVE TAKEN PLACE AND CONTINUE TO TAKE PLACE IN PALESTINE.
No mention of how Mubarak’s support for Israel and the U.S. has PROVIDED COVER FOR ISRAELS ONGOING ILLEGAL EXPANSION OF ILLEGAL SETTLEMENTS. NOTHING
Andrea Mitchell, Richard Haas, Engel, others bringing up the Gaza. NOTHING ABOUT THE WEST BANK AND ILLEGAL SETTTLEMENTS.
The other day Andrea Mitchell said this about the Egyptian protest “all they want is freedom and accessibility” She is incabalble of extending that stance to Palestinians
If only Rachel Maddow were really committed to what she says she is about on her adds for her program “devotion to facts that borders on obsession” except when it comes to Iran and the Palestinians.
The other day Washington Journal put up the map of the middle east with Israel and their map of the West Bank. Not the reallity the West Bank with all illegal settlements breaking up the continuity of the West Bank. So manipulative. So dishonest
Cenk at the 6;00 p.m. MSNBC spot is getting the closest to the truth. He did an amazing segmet on the now VP of Egypt. Torture, rendition. Mentioned Jane Mayer’s new piece in the New Yorker about Suliman (sp?)
So clear that there is one issue that is not covered by all stations Fox, MSNBC, Fox, CNN including CSPAN. Do not mention Palestinian protest. Silence
“We hear that Netanyahu is calling Europe and the U.S., do what you can to support Mubarak, we’re not going to get anyone better. People are angry about that.”
Mubarak has provided cover for the expansion of Israeli illegal settlements for decades. Suliman (sp?) would continue to do the same. Interesting to listen to MSNBC’s Richard Engel and Jamie Rubin both who have been all over doing their best to undermine El Baradei. Keep repeating he has no real power or influence on the streets of Egypt. Really trying their best to undermine him. We can be sure Israel does not want El Baradei to rist to power. In his role of head of the IAEA he brought attention to Israel’s unwillingness to sign the NPT and to the illegal settlements undermining peace in the region.
Best statement yet of what is truly at stake here:
Ten days ago, this would have sounded like a nostalgic fantasy. Liberation happens first in the mind. That revolution in collective consciousness has already occurred in the Arab world, in one of those ‘tipping point’ moments when one suddenly realizes that the world has changed, shockingly and irrevocably. In one stroke, Israel’s claim to be the only enlightened, liberal-democratic polity in the region has been demolished, as it overtly sides with the Egyptian dictator to defend its colonialist settler state.
‘Once Mubarak goes we’re going to lead the Arab world again, and liberate Palestine.’ No more Quartet-imposed surrender terms in exchange for a crippled, bogus statelet. The objective has been reframed. Carry on, my man.
Best statement yet of what is truly at stake here:
That statement also stood out for me Jim. This is not just about overthrowing a dictator, but a seismic moment that will empower the Arab world and restore a pride they have been denied for over a century.
Thanks to Ahmed Moor for his work and for Phil and Adam for relaying his message.
Israel permitted Egypt to send 300 Egyptian soldiers to Sharam al-Shaikh a couple of days ago. Note that according to the peace agreement, the Sinai must remain demilitarized, hence the need for approval. The mere fact that 300 soldiers were mobilized to Sharam Al-Shaikh, despite there being negligible protests there, could very well indicate that Mubarak has sought refugee in that resort town.
The Egyptian army isn’t going to go back behind the suez canal again.
So much for israeli deterrence. They are afraid of the Bedouin gettting too uppity.
My point is that the soldiers may have been sent there to protect Mubarak while in hiding.
Avi, the local rumor mill locates him in Sharm. Who knows if it’s true, but it makes a lot of sense to me – would explain why he seems so completely disconnected from events in Cairo. Not sure how he could be filmed having meetings with his cabinet there though. And I thought it was 800 troops not 300. Perhaps I’m recalling incorrectly.
I went to bed last night full of fear for Egypt and am sorry to see that you good people are still in such danger. But congratulations for hanging on so undauntedly. The BBC is reporting copiously, but one of the correspondents was rather too busy assuring us that the support for Mubarak was genuine – ‘Look at the spontaneity!’ he cried, grinning all over his face. I don’t see how he can have known the truth of what he was saying.
Australian ABC reported with live video from Tahrir Square about half an hour ago. Molotov cocktails being thrown. The reporter seemed to be in Cairo. He said that there was a suspicion that the Mubarak supporters were police out of uniform. Also he suggested that the protesters were at that time driving the Mubarak supporters completely out of the square with help from the Army! I had the impression that the Army is there to stop things getting out of control.
From this afternoon’s tweet feed:
Clearly, Palestine will have to be liberated not only from Israel, but from the illegitimate Abbas quisling administration.
Why is this US-backed imposter still in office when his mandate has expired?
who would you recommend replace him? aren’t the same things happening in Gaza right now? There won’t a new authority in the WB or Gaza until there is unification. With Egypt in peril, this won’t happen all that soon.
Achtung, ve muss habe law n order!
Ordnung und Recht.
Abbas has an ambition to be a Quisling, but instead he is like a commandant of ghetto police (or head of Judenrat).
Abbas himself explained that in the face of Israeli intransigence maintaining PA is pointless and he promised to resign. But this would be too much of a pay cut.
wow, so good to hear the solidarity is as strong as ever. good to hear your words ahmed..and thanks phil and adam. huge thanks to all.
link to huffingtonpost.com
>> biorabbi February 2, 2011 at 9:18 pm
>> link to huffingtonpost.com
Wow, this is lame. You’re spamming this site with that link AND you’re covering ground that’s already been covered, ad nauseam, by your collectivist predecessors.
This site is about the I-P issue. You want to complain about life in Jordan, sign up to a “Democracy in Jordan” website. You want to pressure the U.S. to do better by Native Americans, join a pro-Native American forum site.
To drag those issues into this site in order to excuse Israel for its past and ON-GOING criminality and injustice is nothing more than, yes, deflection.
Bad little Zio-troll.
triple yawn
doesn’t he really mean:
this is so old school, so last century. dude the palestinian papers obliviated the ‘no partner for peace’ hasbara from israel. it’s clear now it’s the palestinians who have no partner for peace after the PA (who was fantastically referred to as an ‘ally’ of israel this week in the israeli press re mubarak ha!) surrendered jerusalem to livni and she turned down the deal. flat out turned down the deal.
ariana huff might buy this crap but the global community doesn’t.
btw, i noticed you did not apologize for linking to that lying video. in fact you defended lying as ‘freedom of speech’.
i really have no idea what the policy here is of accepting/retaining posters. frankly it serves the site and humanity to show the blatant racist character of extreme zionists (that would be you). but even i know most zios are not as extreme as yourself.
whatever. it’s much easier to battle the wackos but you don’t do israel any favors. maybe that’s the point of keeping you on if phil and adam decide to.
you should apologize and lick your wounds. you’re pathetic.
McCain beats Obama to the punch:
… while the Obama administration dithers:
How? By giving them a bonus, fresh horses, and better weapons? ‘If you don’t take the square tomorrow, boys, don’t bother coming back.’
The regime thugs – not just the upper elite, but some significant number of the estimated millions on the Mubarak payroll – also may be afraid of any day of reckoning. It’s probably not hard to find motivation among those in the great circle of complicity and privilege that surrounds a dictatorial regime.
Can we follow Ahmed on twitter, does anyone know?
A good piece by Rami Khouri in Lebanon’s Daily Star that puts this historic moment in the right context. Sorry for the long excerpt:
omg, this is the best summation i’ve read thus far. i knew when a started reading (khouri is my friend raghida’s bro so i’m already a massive fan) so i had to prepare myself for an element bliss. refilled my whiskey! sourdough (thin sliced) w/lightly sauteed marinated (palestinian olive oil w/ balsamic of course) mushrooms and avacado. then i read it slowly. very. repeating many lines. slowly. savoring every word along w/every sip and bite. still reeling.
ahh. splendiferous and sublime. thank you bijou and rami of course. ahh. heaven.
think i’ll go read it again.
Yumm Annie. Sounds like the perfect mix!
Reading the piece gave me chills too.
Clear, concise. Spreading this one to other sites
in liberation square
with the first counter-revolutionary onslought thrown back
confidence soared
that unity
in pursuit of a better world
can never be defeated
Live fire on the protesters in Tahrir right now…. pray for them; they are unarmed.
Is there something wrong with the formatting? The archives for feb seem to have dissapeared, and this is the only post appearing on the homepage.
Meanwhile, back in Ramallah: PA beats pro-Egypt protesters with clubs
and Amira Hass: Why Isn’t the PA Supporting the Egyptian Uprising?
Jonathan Cook: Can the Palestinian Authority Survive?
And Stuart Littlewood.
link to redress.cc
But the revolver in the study was for gentlemen. They may have gambled away the regimental mess funds, cheated at cricket, or brought ruin upon a substantial portion of the British Empire, but they were still men of honour.
Abbas?
Annie:
Your fervor and compassion shares light onto the bitterness of the darkest nights.