Well I'm glad this discussion is coming to the U.S. A group of Israel supporters is erecting a bomb shelter in Washington Square Park in NY today-- complete with sirens and orders to get inside within a certain interval--so that Americans will understand what Israelis have to live with because of rocket attacks. So says the Birthright Alumni organization, which is behind the project. There's a demonstration planned against the scare operation at 2 p.m.
The mock shelter is an obvious effort to counter the Israeli Apartheid Week activists who put up walls on campuses to dramatize the Palestinian experience. So the Birthright folks are saying that's justified, I guess. And it raises the question: How long should Americans take one side in a cycle of violence that arose predictably, 63 years ago, from land confiscation and expulsion? How many more decades do Israelis and their supporters expect Palestinians to accept siege, blockade, checkpoint and sequestration?
i wonder of they had to get a permit for this and if that’s the case can we also erect a wall and checkpoints in washington square park?
Relabel it GAZA
Great idea, Potsherd2. If I still lived there, I’d go down with a spray can and do it. CODE PINK! WHERE ARE YOU?
A few people playing Israeli’s should be seen launching the rockets into “Israel.”
OT
Do not miss Grant Smith’s droll takedown today of Dan Señor and Saul Singer’s “2009 Council on Foreign Relations book brimming with anecdotes, assumptions, and advice:” Start-Up Nation: The Story of Israel’s Economic Miracle
link to original.antiwar.com
Señor and Singer claim Israel invented more than cherry tomatoes. Grant Smith decimates their claims and omissions…with links. This review is a keeper to offset the Harbara oom-pah-pah crowd we often get here.
None of the talking heads will ever be having Grant Smith on their Sunday morning so called news programs
On Meet The Press during the round table Bob Woodward, Ted Koppel, Tom Ricks, Savannah Guthrie mentioned Syria, Bahrain, even whispered about Saudi Arabia not being on the “why not” militarily invade coalition list. We also heard what eveyone (talking heads and callers into Washington Journal) brings up as why no to little response to the “massacres…slaughters” in Rwanda, etc list. But what we never ever hear any of the talking heads bring up is why no US or UN coalition forces response to the Israeli “slaughter..massacre” (again using their language) of Palestinians in the Gaza.
Why no UN coalition against the Bush administrations invasion and “slaughter…massacre” in Iraq. All based on a “pack of lies”
Gloria Borger was the very worst host on Sunday morning stepping in for Fareed Zakaria on CNN’s GPS. She led all of the guest right down the path to Iran. Just where the I lobby wants the US and international community to militarily intervene asap. Not a whisper about how there have been “slaughters” in the Gaza. On going demolition of Palestinian homes etc in the West Bank. Illegal settlements. That have had the whole region up in arms about for decades. When will they discuss this humanitarian crisis on our MSM? When
On ABC’s This Week the program had Donald Rumsfeld on again. Who the hell cares about what this war criminal thinks about Libya. Come on enough of the recycling of what these warmongers think. Who cares?
If you read the 9/11 Commission Report you will read that US support for many of the dictators in the middle east is what has pissed so many people in that region off for decades. As well as US support for Israel no matter what they do. No matter how many UN resolutions that Israel is in violation of, how many other international agreements and decisions that they ignore etc.
Not this is not new information we have been hearing about this from leaders in that part of the world, former CIA analyst Ray McGovern, former head of the CIA’s Bin Laden unit Micheal Scheuer, former IAEA weapons inspector Scott Ritter, former President Jimmy Carter and many others.
When will Gloria Borger, Christiane Amanpour, Fareed Zakaria, and the rest of the talking heads start discussing this critical issue and the humanitarian crisis there… instead of leading the guest on their programs right where the I lobby and Israel want them to go…Iran?
Oh well! Maybe they could erect a mock flying checkpoint, a mock apartheid wall (“For security!”) and a mock settlement that just vents raw sewage down the hill. Might as well give people the full taste of everything Israel has to offer.
By Allah, we Gothamites are such clucks it’s not to be believed.
No doubt that the same clowns who voted to renamed the Queensboro Bridge after former mayor [and arch Zionist] Ed Koch [why can't his buddies in the Knessett come through and name an illegal West Bank Settlement after the the former mayor and would-be movie and restaurant critic?] will no doubt fall all over themselves to get this little peicce of propaganda inflicted upon the rest of NYC.
I must second Annie’s suggestion that a security barrier/fence/wall/euphemism-of-your-choice be erected to complement said propaganda.
Failing that, perhaps I’ll sponsor an open competion among NYC’s many graffitti “artists” to “tag” that structure. I’ll spring for the spray paint. and the bail money, as needed. No doubt i’ll be charged with providing material assisstance to “terrorists.”
At least the Israeli’s have bomb shelters. Guess those 1400 Palestinians who were “slaughtered” (using Secretary Clintons language describing Gaddafi’s actions) in the Gaza did not make it into shelters. Because they do not have any..
On today’s Democracy Now, former Afghan member of parliament, Malalai Joya mentioned the use of white phosphorous by the US against its Afghanistani victims. I presume this is the same high quality white phosphorous Israel uses to melt Palestinians. Will Israel’s supporters include a demo of its effects in Washington Square Park?
A better analogue would have been mock F-16 planes and Apache helicopters dropping white phosphorus and 1000 pound bombs on Palestinian civilians.
Then, a mock Israeli siege can show how Israel prevents cement from reaching Gaza, thus preventing Palestinians from building bomb shelters.
In addition, organizers can put on display full-size mock Qassam rockets alongside full-size 1000 pound bombs.
This, as opposed to this and this.
To counteract this hasbara, protesters should have several large posters topped with the words THEY HAD NO BOMB SHELTERS. Under these words should be a multitude of photos of the bodies of Palestinian children murdered by Israeli missiles, bullets and white phosphorus. About a dozed of these oversize posters might show the true face of this conflict.
You got an excellent idea there Jan. Like fotos of the 412 murdered gaza children who had no shelter to take refuge in.
That’d be a good campaign: Build Bomb Shelters for Gaza’s children!
Because the Israeli blockade of building materials means they have none.
One of the major weapons in this propaganda war against Israel is the “Remember these Children” website which compares the numbers of Arab children who have been killed in the conflicts to the number of Jewish children murdered by terrorists. The Arab list totals 1,437 since 2000 and the Jewish list totals 130. Not withstanding that such reporting is unsubstantiated, After visiting the site, I noticed that according to this report, most of the Israeli children were murdered in drive by shootings and human bombs exploding themselves in restaurants, buses and markets. In other words, the Arab terrorists targeted those children and murdered them in cold blood. For all of the Arab children, on the other hand, the site identifies the causes of death as gun shot wounds or explosions during the firefights with Arab Hamas fighters. What were their children doing in the middle of a war zone? That is clear and convincing evidence that the Hamas thugs where using the local children as human shields. Soldiers are trained to return fire when fired upon. The bushwhacking urban guerrillas who fire at enemy troops from a neighborhood full of children are the ones causing the deaths of those children. More at http:moshesharon.worpress.com
I would like to start by pointing out your ideological bias. “Arab” children are actually Palestinian. Try as it might to erase an entire people’s national identity, Israel and supporters like you will not succeed, no matter how many “Arabs” Israel kills.
Secondly, it is rather instructive that you describe “Arab” children’s killings as “killing”, while you use the “murdered by terrorists” description when referring to Jewish kids.
I do not condone violence, but I also do not recall German Jews calling themselves “terrorists” when certain groups used violence against the Nazis.
In addition, statements made by Israeli officials prior to, and during, the assault on Gaza, are clear indicators that Israel’s military apparatus was inclined to inflict mass civilian casualties. Subsequent investigations by international bodies — the UN — confirmed Israel’s premeditation. Testimonies by soldiers in the Israeli media further corroborate those findings. But, worse yet are those t-shirts which many an Israeli military personnel purchased bearing the image of a pregnant Palestinian woman in the crosshairs of a rifle scope with a caption that reads: “One shot, two kills”.
Finally, in addressing your false allegation that the statistics are erroneous, I recommend you visit Btselem.org, an Israeli human rights organization. There you can verify the statistical data for yourself.
More in this Mondoweiss post.
———————-
Incidentally, I ask that you stop spamming the website with the same false claims. It stifles debate.
****************
“I ask that you stop spamming the website with the same false claims.”
Has he done it before? I don’t recall seeing him before.
We do seem to be getting a new crop of exceptionally crude hasbarists. I wonder why.
Yes, a cut-and-paste job. Spam. And it’s the only thing he posts here.
Out with him!
Has he done it before?
I saw the exact same post on another thread yesterday. Can’t remember which one.
We do seem to be getting a new crop of exceptionally crude hasbarists. I wonder why.
Birthday presents?
Yesterday here:
link to mondoweiss.net
comment at 9;06pm mar 27
link to mondoweiss.net
“Birthday presents?”
Makes sense. I never get what I want.
“In other words, the Arab terrorists targeted those children and murdered them in cold blood.”
Human bombs do not target specific people. They expect to kill some of the people around them, and these will include children, but this is not the same as the IDF practice of deliberately aiming a gun at a child and shooting.
Too late for this demonstration, but if such a thing happens in the future, I would suggest instead that counter demonstrators set up informational pickets letting the New Yorkers know that if they aren’t Jewish they don’t get to go into the bomb shelters. The non-Jewish Arab citizens of Israel living in Arab towns do not have access to public bomb shelters and usually don’t get adequate notice of an incoming rocket.
From Jonathan Cook, reporting on the 2006 Israel-Lebanon War.
link to jkcook.net
Further information on this here:
link to jkcook.net
For anyone interested in reading the Arab Association for Human Rights report “Civilians in Danger”, referred to above in Jonathan Cook’s piece, it is available here in summary:
link to arabhra.org
a snippet:
The full report can be assessed by download as a word doc from that page.
According to Jonathan Cook, the situation with respect to proximity to military installations and the lack of public bomb shelters has not improved fo the Palestinian citizens of Israel in the 4 and a half years since the Lebanon War.
So Isreal is using its Arab citizens as human shields.
Indeed for Palestinians in Israel, there were never public bomb shelters as the Israeli government has reserved such infrastructure investment for Jewish towns.
But, the fact remains that most Israeli military installations are either within or in close proximity to civilian population centers.
For example, the Israeli military headquarters is located in the heart of Tel-Aviv, home to several command and control facilities.
In addition, biological and chemical warfare facilities are located in several coastal cities like Haifa, Hertzeliya and Rehovot.
In fact, with a handful of exceptions like the Dimona facility and a few airbases in the Negev, the vast majority of Israeli military installations are located within dense population centers that in essence serve as human shields.
Note: Far more detailed information is available in the public domain, and can be found in various non-Israeli newspaper snippets, websites and in several books.
Avi, prove it. You are supposed to be the premiere source of all things that are Israel, but I am calling BS on the majority of it.
That’s the best rebuttal you have? “avi ur a lying poopyhed!1″
What exactly are you asking me to prove? What I wrote above is common knowledge to many Israelis — with the exception of Olim who know very little about Israel.
That you are under the impression I posted some revelatory secret information is indicative of your own lack of knowledge. And for that, I’m afraid you only have yourself to blame.
this seems stupid as most people know very little about the conflict. creating a situation where people would ask them selves why Israel is being rocketed wouldn’t go well for them.