Is Greece being blackmailed to put the brakes on Gaza flotilla?

Israel/Palestine
on 250 Comments

Medea Benjamin of Code Pink, who is sailing on the US boat to Gaza, sent out an email last night. An excerpt:

It appears that the Greek government is bowing to intense pressure from the Israelis—and possibly the U.S. government—to try to block the flotilla. The American passengers on the U.S. boat, called The Audacity of Hope, are pushing the Greek government to do a quick inspection, as they are convinced the ship would pass muster. “The boat we are leasing for this journey has been worked on for months by qualified technicians and is ready to sail,” said organizer and passenger Ann Wright. “We do not believe it needs to be re-inspected, but we are open to the Greek authorities doing this quickly so that there will be no further delays.”

The move to block the U.S. boat is just the latest in a flurry of recent activity designed to thwart the flotilla. Israel has publicly stated that it is pressuring countries around the world to stop their citizens from participating. Its pressure on the Turkish government was so intense that the Turkish ship, the Mavi Marmara, the same ship that was so violently attacked last year, recently announced that it would not be joining the flotilla. 

Several boats in the international flotilla are now docked in Greece. To its credit, the Greek government has taken a position that the blockade on Gaza must be lifted and many people in the government are sympathetic to the aims of the flotilla. But Greece is being battered by a severe economic crisis that has wreaked havoc within the government itself. The passengers speculate that Israel, which has extensive trade and investment ties with Greece, is callously taking advantage of the economic hardship the Greek people are experiencing right now to put the screws on the Greek government. 

They also see the hidden hand of the United States behind this, as the Obama administration has been publicly railing against the flotilla, calling it a “provocative act” against Israel and issuing harsh travel warnings to Americans against any attempts to reach Gaza by boat. The U.S. passengers speculate that the Obama Administration is using economic blackmail on the Greek government. Greece’s economic and political crisis is a result of extreme austerity measures imposed by the European Union and the largely U.S.-controlled International Monetary Fund (IMF). The United States may well be using its leverage at the IMF over the implementation of an ongoing bailout of European banks with massive Greek debts to compel the Greek government to block the U.S. boat. 

“Greece is not going to be able to meet the targets that it is pledging to the IMF and the European authorities. In this situation the IMF and therefore the U.S. government will have enormous leverage because these institutions will decide what will be acceptable benchmarks for Greece to receive future tranches of IMF/EU funding,” said Mark Weisbrot, Co-Director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington DC. 

Passengers on the U.S. boat are asking Greek government officials to clarify the situation. “Is our boat being blocked from leaving Greece because of an anonymous request of a private citizen concerning the seaworthiness of the ship, a situation could be easily dealt with by a quick inspection, or is this a political decision by the Greek government in response to economic pressure?,” asked passenger and political analyst Robert Naiman.

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250 Responses

  1. Chaos4700
    June 26, 2011, 8:41 am

    The United States is burning up its imperial power at Israel’s whim. Not that I’m not happy to see the streak of imperialism that’s infected the US be cauterized for good but it’s sad that we’re doing it on marching orders from Tel Aviv.

    The Greek people are sitting up and taking notice that the US and Israel are using them as their pawn. Not even specifically with regards to the flotilla but with the austerity measures that are being forced on them by our business interests.

    • yourstruly
      June 26, 2011, 4:08 pm

      the u.s. is burning up its imperial power at israel’s whim?

      catch 22 for empire?

      stay the course?

      doomsday

      pretend to stand up for the people?

      after how many lives and trillions of dollars have been wasted?

      who’ll believe them?

    • Kathleen
      June 27, 2011, 8:15 am

      Parasite eating its host

  2. Richard Witty
    June 26, 2011, 8:42 am

    The path to lifting the blockade on Gaza is:

    1. Unification of PA (Hamas has a moratorium on that effort in opposition to Fayyad as temporary prime minister)
    2. Negotiation with Israel
    3. Formation and consented ratification of Palestinian statehood

    2 and 3 are most effective if they occur together.

    If that statement is true, which I believe it is, then the most effective use of dissent would be to attempt to persuade Hamas to accept Israel, accept the PA, and renounce the self-fulfilling status of “resistance”, in favor of assertive negotiation.

    In the current status, the blockade of Gaza itself is not illegal, but may be relative to the extent.

    Hopefully, the recently allowed transfer of building materials (through internationally credible NGO’s only) will be normalized.

    Normalization is a two-way requirement.

    • Chaos4700
      June 26, 2011, 9:09 am

      So basically you’re saying that Israel is helpless to lift its own blockade? Or are you saying that children will starve in Gaza until their parents submit to the will of Zionism?

      I don’t know why you think you’re helping Israel by making the case that their very existence and the nature of it means they can’t not violate both international law and basic human decency. You know, me not being Jewish, my self-determination doesn’t require anyone to starve. You haven’t exactly made the case that the same applies to you, personally.

      • RCCA
        June 26, 2011, 7:59 pm

        This is so absurd, even Hamas admits that no one is starving in Gaza — in fact the problem they have is obesity. Gaza has one of the highest rates in the world.

      • Chaos4700
        June 26, 2011, 10:11 pm

        Higher than Wisconsin? Try again, Hasbarat. I’ll take the word of UN personnel on the ground over the word of an Israeli Goebbelist, thank you very much.

    • Cliff
      June 26, 2011, 9:11 am

      Stop spamming your nonsense in every single thread. You have posted this exact message over and over. Stop trolling.

      • annie
        June 26, 2011, 11:08 am

        Stop spamming your nonsense in every single thread. You have posted this exact message over and over. Stop trolling.

        i couldn’t agree more. it’s a total highjack, again. quit feeding him people.

      • Donald
        June 26, 2011, 4:19 pm

        Almost all of Richard’s comments are meant to distract attention from the point of the post and put nearly all the blame for Israel’s behavior on some combination of Hamas and “dissent”. (What little blame he has left he will award to the far right Zionists and none at all to liberal Zionists like himself.) It’s spamming, since he does this over and over again and the solution is to delete some of his posts. Not all, since it is useful to see how low he can sink, but we don’t need to see it multiple times per day. Telling people not to feed trolls almost never works, because there will always be people like me who either get angry and respond or feel like the argument should be refuted, but of course with RW one ends up refuting it over and over and over and over.

      • Cliff
        June 26, 2011, 6:27 pm

        I have to give props to our Mondoweiss community for being able to handle the anti-mascot (as well as the other haters and trolls) with such patience.

        You guys rock.

    • Shingo
      June 26, 2011, 9:56 am

      The path to lifting the blockade on Gaza is:

      1. Unification of PA (Hamas has a moratorium on that effort in opposition to Fayyad as temporary prime minister)
      2. Negotiation with Israel
      3. Formation and consented ratification of Palestinian statehood

      2 and 3 are most effective if they occur together.

      But Witty,

      Likud and Kadima both

      1. Reject any Palestinin unity government
      2. Refuse to talk to Hamas
      3. Reject the notion of Palestinian statehood

      So by your own standards, Israel is the problem, not Palestine.

      • Richard Witty
        June 27, 2011, 6:12 am

        The three are unavoidable by Israel is the PA is supported and persists in institution-building, diplomacy and negotiation.

        It is true non-violent civil disobedience, persistent, determined, with no possible obstacles.

        Militancy is the only possible obstacle to the success of that approach.

        So, in that sense you step right into it.

      • Shingo
        June 27, 2011, 7:39 am

        Please re write than in English Witty. No salad dressing please.

      • Richard Witty
        June 27, 2011, 7:55 am

        Again,

        ANY militancy, ANY deviation from the calm, deliberate, institution-building and state-affirming diminishes its effectiveness.

        It conveys to the Israeli populace, to the Israeli state, to the world’s states, to the world’s street, that Israeli defensiveness is necessary.

        Militancy, even “non-violent” surges on borders or the flotilla, feeds the likud argument.

        Violations of borders accompanied by statements of “we will never recognize Israel” are NOT the way to accomplish a change in the relationships.

        That is a way to repeat the former.

      • Bumblebye
        June 27, 2011, 7:57 am

        Witty’s first language is Nonsense.

        It doesn’t translate well. James North, resident expert, must be on vacation.

        Which in turn, has let RW slip back into his more prolific comment-casting bad habits.

      • Richard Witty
        June 27, 2011, 8:30 am

        The institution building and diplomacy is a path to Palestinian success.

        The flotilla and enabling of Hamas is a path to Palestinian failure.

        Too deep for you?

      • Shingo
        June 27, 2011, 8:42 am

        ANY militancy, ANY deviation from the calm, deliberate, institution-building and state-affirming diminishes its effectiveness.

        Translation: Militancy is unacceptable unless perpetrated by Isael, in which case, it is perfectly justified. Jews are superior to all, especially the Arabs.

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 8:45 am

        No, Witty, the way to repeat the former is to keep building Israeli settlements.

      • Bumblebye
        June 27, 2011, 9:00 am

        RW
        You are saying that Palestinians should take their “punishment” from Israel in stoic silence. Which would simply be seen by Israel as stoic acceptance of their diminished/diminishing lot, so nothing would change – except their exer shrinking share of the pizza. Did stoic silence bring about the end of slavery? Or Civil Rights? Or the end of Apartheid? Whenever you post such rhubarb you should first think it through from the perspective of the european Jewish population in 30s and 40s Europe. How many advocated not aggravating the situation, not rocking the boat like you do? How many thought their once seemingly civilized neighbors would come to their senses? And what hell was unleashed on them? The way things are going, the Palestinians can look forward to a mixture of carnage, mass expulsion and bantustans!

      • Shingo
        June 27, 2011, 9:15 am

        The institution building and diplomacy is a path to Palestinian success.

        Based on the history of institution building and diplomacy, one would have to conclude that you have spent the last 4 decades on another planet.

        The flotilla and enabling of Hamas is a path to Palestinian failure.

        Israel were the first to enable Hamas, but the blockade is illegaland a crime against humanity, and therefore must be overcome. The rediculous lenghts that Israel is going to aver the sugegsts it is already a success.

        Or is that too deep for you?

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 9:19 am

        Too deep for us, Witty? No. Shallow as Project David’s lesson to all fledgling & ineffectual hasbarists on how to handle critics of Israel: Talk in generic moral/ethical abstractions and never get into substantive details. And attack the messenger.

      • Richard Witty
        June 27, 2011, 10:31 am

        I’m saying that Palestinians should succeed, not get distracted by adrenaline rushes.

        Success necessitates peace, not victory.

        The two communities are not disappearing. The only options are to learn to mutually accept each other.

        It starts at home, with “I”, not with “them”.

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2011, 11:02 am

        The two communities are not disappearing. The only options are to learn to mutually accept each other.

        Once more Richard how does this latest motherhood statement interact with your desire that Israeli jews permanently reserve the right to ethnically cleanse Israeli Palestinians as they see fit? That’s not acceptance. Need me to quote you? You know I can.

      • Richard Witty
        June 27, 2011, 11:36 am

        Sumud,
        The only quote you could come up with to support “ethnic cleansing” is of academic speculations made relative to events that occurred 6 years before my birth.

        You will not find a quote advocating current ethnic cleansing, because it doesn’t exist.

        You will find numerous quotes here advocating the forced removal of EVERY Jew from the West Bank however, and also many that advocated for the return of Jews to their homes in Europe (ignoring that the majority of Jewish Israelis were born in Israel and lived their whole lives there).

        Program, not “motherhood”.

        Is the question that Kathleen referred to on another post:

        1. Freedom fighter
        2. Healer

        Healer is the only choice where people live in proximity.

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 27, 2011, 11:48 am

        “Healer is the only choice where people live in proximity.”

        Tell that to the Israeli Jews. Until they are prepared to put down the gun that the hold to the head of Palestine’s children, Palestine’s adults will do what they can to strike back, as is right and as is their right.

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2011, 11:59 am

        You will not find a quote advocating current ethnic cleansing, because it doesn’t exist.

        The problem with liars and propagandists is they get all tangled up. You should know by now I don’t make assertions I can’t support. Follow the links my dear:

        Richard Witty supporting current/future ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Israelis, May 27, 2010:
        I believe that Israel should be “gerrymandered” to retain a Jewish majority.

        Richard Witty supporting current/future ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Israelis, March 15, 2011:
        I’ve stated that if a Jewish majority in Israel was threatened, that I thought that the will of the people expressed electorally should determine if they wish to change their political form to a single state, or revise boundaries to comprise a Jewish majority.

        Richard Witty supporting current/future ethnic cleansing of Palestinian Israelis, March 16, 2011:
        I personally don’t see a conflict with intentionally adjusting boundaries if the demographics change considerably to create a smaller Israel that is Jewish majority.

        As I’ve stated more than once your position is even more extreme than Avigdor Liebermen. He advocates a single instance of ethnic cleansing be part of any peace settlement, you want it to be a permanent option for Israeli jews.

        Now please answer my question about how ethnic cleansing interacts with mutual acceptance in your dream-state.

      • Richard Witty
        June 27, 2011, 12:55 pm

        You can call it extreme if you like.

        It has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing, but only the importance of self-governance over the feeling of being governed by an external entity.

        ALL suggestions of jurisdiction are contested in this case. Is the “rational” single state only Israel and West Bank or does it also include Gaza? Does it also include the East Bank of the Jordan?

        If Palestinians that reside in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan wish to associate with West Bank Palestine, is there a path to?

        All unanswered questions. To name a particular speculation as “racist” is really to engage in a prejudicial effort, Sumud.

        The concept of self-governance is a critical one, no?

        Mutual acceptance is constructed. It does not emerge by magic. But, it only gets constructed if there are intentional efforts to do so. The natural areas of mutual acceptance occur when people are highly motivated, care, about some aspect that is cross-cultural.

        Examples include art, literature, intellectual discussion, ecology, medicine, business.

        BDS deconstructs and prohibits mutual acceptance specifically in those fields.

        The animosity laden political approach is counter-productive to that effort.

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 1:37 pm

        Witty, your key quote is the one where you advocated ethnic cleansing in the past and possibly in the future, just not at the present time since presently it’s not necessary; you admitted if you had lived in that past you imagined, knowing your self, that you couldn’t do it yourself, but would allow it, looking the other way.

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 1:47 pm

        Dick Witty:

        “Success necessitates peace, not victory.

        The two communities are not disappearing. The only options are to learn to mutually accept each other.

        It starts at home, with “I”, not with “them”.”

        Treat for today (and everyday), does Dick get an A, B, C, D, or F
        grade on his hasbara spiel homework as per the lesson plan? See
        his mentor David Bernstein, Executive Director of The David Project:
        link to israelcampusbeat.org

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 27, 2011, 1:49 pm

        It’s a lost cause, Citizen. Witty’s a judeo-supremicist who simply hasn’t been able to admit it to himself.

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 2:12 pm

        You’re right Dick Witty, the importance of self-governance over the feeling of being governed by an external entity is precisely why every real American should read, digest, and spread the realistic contents of M & W’s The Israel Lobby. Glad we agree.

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2011, 6:04 pm

        Richard you haven’t address my question at all, but you dig yourself deeper and deeper in that jewish-supremacist hole.

        Stop waffling please. You’re an American jew whose rights are protected by law. This is an extremely basic concept. Imagine what America would be like if Jefferson had written:

        We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men except jews are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, except jews.

        Cultural, scientific and economic ‘mutual acceptance’ is just window dressing without a solid legal foundation.

        Some wretched creatures need to experience their own ideas in reality before they understand how rotten they are. When America finally turns on Israel there will be a degree of anti-semitism that surfaces. The most extreme will call for the elimination of jews from America. I’d like to know how you’d feel about all American jews being forcibly transferred to Hawaii, and Hawaii then being granted independence, ie. gerrymandered out of America. You will be stateless.

        Go ahead, tell me that speculation isn’t anti-semitic, and that action isn’t ethnic cleansing.

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2011, 6:10 pm

        Citizen ~ I won’t grade him but I had noted the correlation between Richard’s attitude and Bernstein’s advice. Nobody presents racism more smoothly than RW.

      • pjdude
        June 27, 2011, 11:05 pm

        It has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing, but only the importance of self-governance over the feeling of being governed by an external entity.

        right and thats what you support an out side entity foreign jews “self governing” over palestine at the expense of the palestinians. jews have no right to palestine. you need to deal with your sense of entitlement and admit the reality. not that you’ll respond.

    • stevieb
      June 26, 2011, 10:11 am

      Normalization is a two-way requirment?

      No kidding?

      You have a long way to go Mr. Witty…

    • kalithea
      June 26, 2011, 10:32 am

      This post is a red-herring meant to steer the discussion away from the fact that Zionists control foreign governments through blackmail and other pressures or bribery.

      • Bart
        June 26, 2011, 3:38 pm

        Explain this conundrum, please. On the one hand, there are numerous postings about how various govt and non-govt entities are bought and purchased by Israel via outright bribery (see above) and other “financial incentives”. On the other, there are nearly as many postings about how US (mostly military) aid of roughly $3B to Israel is the only thing standing between it and imminent collapse.

        Seems to me you can’t have it both ways. Either they have substantial wealth by which to influence many others, or they are paupers. One or the other, folks.

      • RoHa
        June 27, 2011, 8:15 am

        “Either they have substantial wealth by which to influence many others, or they are paupers. One or the other, folks.”

        Not difficult ot work out. Israel gets huge sums (far more than $3bn) from the US. It send some of that back to bribe individual politicians. Still makes a tidy profit.

      • Donald
        June 27, 2011, 8:30 am

        There’s no actual contradiction between them. It’s perfectly possible for Israel to bribe some and take charity from others. I think the idea that Israel would collapse without 3 billion dollars in aid is an exaggeration, but obviously they take US support very seriously, not just the monetary aid, but the diplomatic support as well. They seem to get very upset when the US isn’t completely supportive of everything they do. That doesn’t come from Israeli bribery, but from supporters within the US pushing policies that prevent a just solution and that pressure doesn’t really fit into either side of your false dichotomy.

      • Shingo
        June 27, 2011, 8:43 am

        Donald,

        The 3 billion in aid is nut the tip fo the ice berg. Don’t forget that on top fo all that, there is suplemental aid, loan guarantees and a trade agreement with the US that decalssified documents describe as a $10 billion annual grant to Israel.

    • pineywoodslim
      June 26, 2011, 3:01 pm

      Witty would have pulled for the thugs who beat up the freedom riders in 1963.

      Segregation was 100% legal in the South during that time–just as you say the blockade is legal. So, the freedom riders deserved what they got, right? After all, as on the flotilla, the freedom riders were mostly outside agitators.

    • Les
      June 26, 2011, 3:32 pm

      Just as the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto were personally responsible for the Nazis forcing Jews into the Ghetto and then for the Nazi blockade that kept goods from getting into it, so are the Gazans responsible for poor Israel’s necessity to blockade them. All of which is true if we accept Witty strange argument that ending a blockade is a two way responsiblity though only one side has the power to enforce the blockade.

    • Kathleen
      June 27, 2011, 8:17 am

      All ready been done…Internationally recognized 67 border. Israel out of the West Bank totally out of E Jerusalem. Thieves flat out thieves. Period

    • Erasmus
      June 27, 2011, 9:58 am

      Witty-charges per word of Spam – as suggested by seafoid:
      This contribution costs RW 132 X per word charge rate !!

      Question to Adam: Has the spam word rate already been fixed?

  3. Taxi
    June 26, 2011, 9:12 am

    “The path to lifting the blockade on Gaza is”:

    Dismantle the Apartheid state of israel.

    This would work for me and ooooh about several billion other human beings.

  4. mig
    June 26, 2011, 9:13 am

    Shortages of drugs and medical disposables in Ministery of Health’s Gaza – WHO – Report (20 June 2011)

    link to unispal.un.org

    And Dick, blockade is illegal….

    • RCCA
      June 26, 2011, 8:07 pm

      shortages because of Israel? not really. According to the link you provided: The shortages in Gaza are compounded by shortages faced by the MoH in the West Bank where 150 drugs were reported to be out of stock. This is because suppliers have held back deliveries to the MoH due to uncertainty about receiving payment in the aftermath of the political reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas in late April.

      • Chaos4700
        June 26, 2011, 10:12 pm

        You mean because Israel is penny-pinching money that belongs to the Palestinian people. Right? You forgot to mention that.

  5. seafoid
    June 26, 2011, 9:16 am

    The Greek bond default is hardly likely to have anything to do with Gaza. I don’t buy it. What kind of pressure can the Zionists put on Greece ? Is a boat sailing or not going to bring the 2 year yield down by 1000 bps? I don’t think so.

    • Citizen
      June 26, 2011, 9:57 am

      seafoid, you are naive if you think international banking entities and economic organizations can’t be swayed by the quiet zionists therein–go back and study the Rothschild dynasty and bring it up to the present world of usury and the power of, e.g., Goldman Sachs.

      • seafoid
        June 26, 2011, 10:42 am

        Citizen

        Greece is f***ed and has been since Feb 09 and the state of its budget deficit has nothing to do with Zionism.
        If or rather when Greece does default the reverberations could be very bad for Israel.

        The modern day Rothschilds in charge of organisations like GS are not in charge. Nobody is in charge in the world of global finance and very few people know what is going on, IMO.

      • Citizen
        June 26, 2011, 1:37 pm

        seafoid, do you also think that the fact that GS is the #1 donor to both the main US political parties is of no significane? Do you think the fact that Obama chose not to reinstate the wall between commercial banks and investment banks is of no significance here? Do you think the fact that the disparity between the haves v the have nots, as graphed by the rising income/asset gap around the world in every country is of no significance? I didn’t say the Rotschild clan is in charge today; they merely set the template regarding said graph. Take a look at who are the key handful of wealthy people in the world and what they do, and, if you’re an American, look closely at who’s at the top at the Fed/Treasury and in, e.g., hedge funds.

      • seafoid
        June 26, 2011, 4:32 pm

        None of them have a clue, citizen. They all believe in the cult of infinite growth. Which is a crock of ****. Take out the assumptions of future growth out of the valuations of the Fortune 500 and you could buy the whole market for less than 10% of its current valuation.

        The system is going to collapse within 50 years and GS is going to go down with it .

        Israel has no chance long term.

        I still don’t believe GS has anything to do with the flotilla.

      • yourstruly
        June 26, 2011, 7:02 pm

        humpty-dumpty sits on a wall

        the big fall?

        on account of its being isolated & alone

        a huff & a puff

        all it’ll take

        could happen any time now

        by popular demand

  6. Taxi
    June 26, 2011, 10:15 am

    All these beefy world honchos being forced to address the petite Gaza flotilla is a clear testament to the momentous and TANGIBLE power of it’s peace activism. Amazing civic feat from world citizenry if you think about it. Just think of all that political hyper-activity in so many national and international halls of power that’s being spent on the flotilla’s behalf – or against it’s behalf I should really say. Clearly the flotilla has made the emperor and so many of his ring-kissers visibly nervous and reactionary.

    Wow!

    The implications of Medea’s article is that international zionist brigades are in effect threatening to sink both the Grecian AND european economies over the flotilla’s passage. Man, that is blind desperation if I ever saw any!

    Every vile, coercive and corrupt political maneuver that international zionism makes, attracts the attentions and objections of more decent world citizenry, putting the Gaza issues squarely on the world’s round table for a deeper examination – which is one of the declared goals of the flotilla.

    Not to understate the grave difficulties that the flotilla passengers are facing every second of this venture, but it sure looks to me like they’re gaining and all their efforts are actually paying off some.

    What I mean to say is that regardless of what happens to this flotilla in the next few days, there will undoubtedly be a third, forth, fifth, etc. till their mission of lifting the blockade on Gaza is completely achieved.

    Nothing can stop them. Last year’s brutal and fatal violence against them certainly hasn’t.

    Ultimately, eventually, good wins over evil. Just ask any holocaust survivor.

    • eee
      June 26, 2011, 12:18 pm

      What BS. In WWII evil won. 1.5 million Jewish kids were killed, if that is not a triumph of evil, I don’t know what is.

      But evil will not win again when it comes to the Jewish people.

      • Taxi
        June 26, 2011, 12:41 pm

        Really now eee you ingrate! Millions of goy died to save the euro jews and stop the EVIL nazi holocaust AND THEY WON!!!

        I don’t see gas chambers or hitler’s party ruling and holocausting the euro jews no more.

        You’re a pathetic WANNABE victim. Not a real victim! All you’re doing is cynically using the tragic memory of holocaust children to hide the crimes of isreal. Shameful and typical!

      • Citizen
        June 26, 2011, 1:43 pm

        Taxi, not only did eee discount goy lives lost, which Zionists always do, but eee is claiming those innocent Jewish kids died so that Israel could dump white phosphorus on Palestinan kids. He’s not even orginal; Himmler took the same attitude when he addressed his SS men, essenttially telling them that it was heroic to exterminate all Jews, including Jewish babies–otherwise, they likely will grow up to be
        a threat to the good life in Germany.

      • eee
        June 26, 2011, 2:18 pm

        Taxi,

        Millions of Europeans died because the Europeans decided to fight each other, not because they were trying to save Jews.

        From a Jewish perspective, evil certainly won. Only an insensitive ignoramus can call getting rid of the Nazis a “victory” for the Jewish people over evil when 1.5 million Jewish children were murdered. Maybe your insensitivity get get around the fact that putting in jail or killing the person who murders your kid is not a victory over evil. The evil of a dead child is not abolished. You want a victory over evil? Bring to life those 1.5 million kids.

        I am not a victim and not a wannabe victim, and I don’t plan being one in the future. That is why I proudly served in the IDF for many years and I much prefer making mistakes from a position of power than being the victim of others more powerful than you.

      • Taxi
        June 26, 2011, 7:54 pm

        eee,

        There should be a tempest of human spit on your ungrateful stolen settler home!

        I repeat: MILLIONS of goy DIED to SAVE THE EUROPEAN JEWS in world war 2!!! Only a bastard would refuse to accept this FACT. The evil of nazism was eventually DEFEATED! Just like the evil of your zionism will be defeated too. Probably even more of a spectacular defeat for the zionists, I’ll give them that!

        Also, this 1.5 million european jewish children you talk about, well I think they would certainly NOT appreciate a criminal thug like you who has no qualms burning Palestinian children with White Phospherous even though they had nothing to do with the holocaust of these 1.5 million european jewish children.

        People like you should not be allowed anywhere near children as a matter of fact! You’re NOT the defender of the helpless and innocent, you’re a racist a war criminal who should be bunking it up with wotshisface from Serbia.

        Not a single teardrop from my eyes will be shed for the corpse of Apartheid israel. Pack your bags already settler man!

      • eee
        June 26, 2011, 11:28 pm

        Taxi,

        You can repeat falsehoods forever they are still false. Britain entered the war against Germany because of its alliance with Poland, not to save European Jews. The Russians cut a deal with the Nazis and didn’t fight them until Germany attacked them. Russian actions had nothing to do with Jews, and they were of no concern to Stalin’s policy. The US joined the war only after being attacked by the Japanese. Nobody was fighting to save Jews. It was a welcome side effect. The millions of non-Jews that died, died for their own interests, not to save Jews. The Jews were a mere after thought to the great powers fighting the war. The Jews were severely defeated in WWII. Again, anyone that calls losing 1.5 million children any kind of victory is insane. The results speak for themselves, as far as the Jews are concerned, evil won.

        I know you will not shed a tear if I have to leave my house. As Jews we had to deal throughout history with wolves in sheep skins as you are. But with the Jews now having a state and having enough power to protect themselves we have the luxury to laugh as you howl at the moon. People like you are exactly the reason why a Jewish state is so necessary.

      • Shingo
        June 27, 2011, 12:32 am

        The Jews were severely defeated in WWII.

        Who were “the Jews” at war with?

        Again, anyone that calls losing 1.5 million children any kind of victory is insane

        The russians lost 20 million fighting WWII. Does that mean they lost?

        People like you are exactly the reason why a Jewish state is so necessary.

        That would explain why more Jews are leaving Israel than arriving.

      • annie
        June 27, 2011, 12:45 am
      • pjdude
        June 27, 2011, 1:00 am

        You have to remember EEE thinks that because other people’s didn’t put the jews existence ahead of their own they didn’t do enough. for him nothing will be good enough until we all bow down to the superier jewish religion.

      • pjdude
        June 27, 2011, 1:03 am

        No, EEE your just a selfish whiny brat that wants to discount the efforts of those who defeated the Nszis because it didn’t happen in a day. and if the jews don’t view the defeat of the nazis as evil losing. well than that is a problem of selfishness with jews not evil winning.

      • pjdude
        June 27, 2011, 1:05 am

        So because the allies were trying to save everybody they weren’t trying to save the jews?

      • Taxi
        June 27, 2011, 1:05 am

        War criminals like you are exactly why israel is doomed eee, not because of goy this or that.

        Oh don’t worry mister settler, jews will always be in the middle east, but not zionism – never in a million years!

        And you trash the memory of millions of world war 2 martyrs, again just to score a point for zionist exceptionalism.

        I’d like to know, what great jewish army single-handedly defeated the nazis and freed Auschwitz etc? Oh do tell us how terrible the goy will always and forever be.

      • straightline
        June 27, 2011, 3:25 am

        “If I knew that it would be possible to save all the children in Germany by
        bringing them over to England and only half of them by transporting them to
        Eretz Israel, then I opt for the second alternative.” (David Ben-Gurion,
        1938)

      • Antidote
        June 27, 2011, 6:28 am

        seriously, taxi, liberating or saving Jews was no war goal of any of the allies, nor was it a war of good versus evil. It was a war between various imperialists seeking to maintain and/or expand their empires and spheres of influence at the expense of millions of people and unprecedented destruction of cities and countries. Are you by any chance trying to score a point for American exceptionalism? I recommend the Pinky show to fill you in on the history of American Imperialism

        link to hawaii-nation.org

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 6:31 am

        eee, since you like to make blanket statements, when was the last time Jews fought in any military force when their principle motivation was not directly or indirectly to save themselves and their own people first of all? The test of virtue is power. Where is the Gypsy state? Can they settle in Israel? With eventual UN approval of course.

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 7:22 am

        Antidote,
        You’re right. Roosevelt de facto declared war on Japan long before Pearl Harbor; the US had been doing its best to cut off Japan’s oil supplies for a number of years before that attack. Even while Roosevelt was running on an isolationist ticket he was working to instigate war with Japan, as a backdoor to war with Germany. His key political operatives knew this all along, and it worked out well for Roosevelt and his special cronies.

      • Kathleen
        June 27, 2011, 8:18 am

        Common pathology

      • Taxi
        June 27, 2011, 9:45 am

        Antidote,
        I lost family members in world war 2 and both of them had personally stated to the family that they were fighting the nazis to halt their brutal military expansion and free the suffering german jews. Now you can add the layer of imperialism blah blah blah and your neighbor can add the layer of democratic blah blah, convoluted histories etc, but the fact remains that in the minds of MILLIONS of soldiers, they were fighting ‘the good war’, fighting an immense and terrible evil and they won.

        Now why would you and eee wanna take away from and dismiss goy good intentions? Seriously, why would you wanna do that? Their martyrdom is meaningless to you guys?

        Some of us live through history and others just read about it, or it seems in your case Antidote, watch it on some small screen somewhere out there in some desert. I do recommend you stop recommending the Pinky show – start recommending the Disney Chanel for a more comprehensive course on good and evil. Why not? It’s all there simplified and broken down to it’s alchemical essence.

        And for a course on what’s really shameful and disgusting, just observe how many jews dismiss the millions of deaths of ww2 goy. So like only jews died for jews in ww2, only jews saved jews? I think we all know the answer to that.

        When a world war breaks out, it’s for many, many, complex reasons. Imperialists take advantage, capitalists take advantage, religionists take advantage – heck EVERYBODY takes advantage!…. Except the soldier on the front line, truly believing he’s a living force of good and actually betting life and limb on it. Don’t lump this soldier in with the imperialists and shimperialists architects – he don’t belong in that snake pit.

        Never forget, Antidote, that in war there is ugly politics, and there is true and soulful humanity too.

      • eee
        June 27, 2011, 10:09 am

        The lesson of WWII is simple enough. Every country or people first take care of their own interests. Therefore, the Jews need to be organized in a state to take care of their own interests.

        The Jewish population in Israel is growing significantly each year.
        What are you guys mumbling about?

        The Jews lost WWII. Only an insane person can believe that losing 1.5 million children can in any way shape or form be considered a victory. What is so difficult to understand?

      • Taxi
        June 27, 2011, 10:22 am

        eee,

        Hitler’s long gone and the euro jews got Palestine because of it: you know, got their own chance at being the bully bastards of the region. But go ahead stay stuck in 1939. (Boy are you over-ripe for therapy or what?!)

      • Mooser
        June 27, 2011, 10:28 am

        “You’re a pathetic WANNABE victim.”

        He needs to study the three R’s.

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 27, 2011, 10:30 am

        “The lesson of WWII is simple enough. Every country or people first take care of their own interests.”

        Wrong. That mentality which was responsible for the Holocaust. The real lesson of WWII is simple enough: the human and political rights of all must be respected by all, regardless of whether they are part of your “people” or not.

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2011, 11:20 am

        Berating America for it’s indifference during the onslaught on Gaza two years ago, Chris Hedges said it perfectly:

        The lesson of the holocaust is not that jews are special, it is not that jews are unique, it is not that jews are eternal victims.

        The lesson of the holocaust is that when you have the capacity to halt genocide and you do not, no matter who carries out that genocide, or who it is directed against, you are culpable
        America: The Silence of a Nation.

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 4:15 pm

        Easy Taxi. Don’t want you to blow a gasket. Eee’s spiritual mentor is Himmler. And his conclusion regarding “Never Again” mirrors Goering’s. And like Nazi Germany, which originated in the unfair Treaty of Versailles, the state of Israel, which was given practical life by the Shoah thanks to goy guilt, whether deserved or not, yes, that Jewish state will vanish one day, for the same reason the Nazi state vanished. Kharma.

      • pjdude
        June 27, 2011, 11:11 pm

        the lesson I take from WW2 is that standing together as human’s is our greatest strength. the selling out of Eastern Europe and the creation of Israel at the native’s expense when people acted the way you feel they should have are the problem.

      • Antidote
        June 28, 2011, 4:38 am

        thanks, citizen. And then there’s Roosevelt I who planted the seed (see Bradley’s Imperial Cruise)

      • Antidote
        June 28, 2011, 6:00 am

        “Some of us live through history and others just read about it, or it seems in your case Antidote, watch it on some small screen somewhere out there in some desert.”

        I’m actually in Berlin right now, spending most of my days at the Staatsbibliothek and the German Historical Museum. I could easily post a few thousand pages here, but the Pinky show offers a pretty good summary of the basic issue re American imperialism (which started long before WW II), and the point I was going to make. But you’re quite right. Like most people alive today, or posting on blogs, I did not live through WW II, and rely on second-hand information. I suspect there are not too many octogenarians commenting on Mondoweiss, nor do I believe that their testimony would necessarily be any more comprehensive, objective or accurate just because they were contemporaries.

        “I lost family members in world war 2 and both of them had personally stated to the family that they were fighting the nazis to halt their brutal military expansion and free the suffering german jews. Now you can add the layer of imperialism blah blah blah and your neighbor can add the layer of democratic blah blah, convoluted histories etc, but the fact remains that in the minds of MILLIONS of soldiers, they were fighting ‘the good war’, fighting an immense and terrible evil and they won.”

        I just spent a few days in Dresden, and if your family members had anything to do with that or the bombing and destruction of dozens of other German cities, it doesn’t surprise me that they would cite more noble motives for their involvement, nor do I doubt that they truly believed they did the right thing even at the time. But that alone doesn’t make it right. According to the Dresden city archives, about 5000 Jews lived in Dresden at the beginning of the Nazi period. In 45, there were 12 survivors. The rest emigrated during the 30s, or were killed in concentration/death camps during WW II, or even during the Allied bombing raids. At least 25 000 civilians were killed in Dresden in one night. That must feel really good to kill those evil Germans, most of them women, children, old people and refugees, for the sake of saving Jews? Blah, blah, blah indeed, I don’t even have to add ‘layers of imperialism’ to debunk the view that this was necessary to halt German military expansion. In February 1945? Dresden was a slaughterhouse for civilians, like other German cities, and this was a deliberate allied bombing strategy. Of course Churchill and Roosevelt both lied to the British and Americans about the purpose of ‘strategic bombing’. I don’t question the ‘good intentions’ of your relatives, or mine (mine would be German and American). But you know what they say about good intentions. The only thing my mother (born in the late 30s) remembers about the war is the Allied plane, en route to massive bombing of the provincial capital towards the end of the war, snipering a young girl who happened to cross the street of her small Black Forest village. Her guts were spilled all over the pavement. There were, no doubt, better ways to end the war, and at a much earlier date. The Allies refused any of those possibilities. Their main aim, insisted upon by Roosevelt, was unconditional surrender, i.e. surrender of German sovereignty. The Germans (and I mean the general population) had every reason to fear such an outcome, and the conditions of peace imposed by the Allies thus only prolonged the war. How many lives you think would have been saved, Jewish and other, if the war had ended in 42 or 43? Only imperialistic interests can explain why this war drew in as many nations as it did, and why it lasted as long as it did. What you call ‘true and soulful humanity’ more often than not is co-opted by ‘ugly politics’. Israel is a good example of this, too.

        “Except the soldier on the front line, truly believing he’s a living force of good and actually betting life and limb on it. Don’t lump this soldier in with the imperialists and shimperialists architects – he don’t belong in that snake pit.”

        That’s also true for the German soldiers. Most of them were not foaming-at-the mouths racists and expansionists, nor were they fighting for settling their families in Poland or elsewhere in the East. Most of them just wanted to go home, to Bavaria, or Prussia, or other German states and cities under Allied bombardment. By percentage, the German army had the highest casualties (30%, versus 25% for the Red Army, 5% for the British, and 2.5 % for the US). As with Stalin, the first victim of Hitler was his own people. I realize that WW II historiography is still largely shaped by memories of ‘relatives’. Millions died, and their descendants have an emotional need to justify such losses on high moral or patriotic grounds. This is why Stalin still ranks high in Russian memory. Does that make him the good guy? I think not. The Germans feel the need to justify losing the war, and a great many of their people, including 25% of their territory, among other losses, by disowning their past and everyone who was a member of the NSDAP or a soldier in WW II. Two sides of the same coin, really.

      • Taxi
        June 28, 2011, 9:41 am

        Thanks for your considerations, Antidote.

        I could happily trundle along with everything you said except:
        “Millions died, and their descendants have an emotional need to justify such losses on high moral or patriotic grounds. ”

        My friend, first of all, you make the mistake of thinking that good and evil can easily be divided into a simplistic black and white. Evil is complex yes, but ‘Good’ is even more complex than evil – Stalin being one case in point. Here a quick study of any ‘dictator’ would demonstrate the weird morphing tango of good and evil inside such a man.

        And as regards your above quote, don’t you think you’re being just a tad cynical and presumptuous (never mind insensitive), again boxing millions of people’s complex reasons and motives into ONLY TWO categories. You don’t think some ‘relatives’ of WW2 victims can be ‘objective’ about their own kith and kin? Really? You think they’re all emotional basketcases forever cuz their siblings died in WW2?

        BTW I personally abhor what the Allies did to Dresden and the general German civilian population at the end of the war – and NO my relatives did not perish in Berlin as you ‘presumed’.

        Come on Antidote, you can do better than that. Yes we all know imperialism started in the cave-age and all that’s happened is that it’s changed scary animal headwear for a nuclear bomb to ‘impress’ the little people with. But that’s not the ONLY layer of life taking place. History is not two dimensional either: it’s a three dimensional tapestry woven by millions of bickering hands.

        I really don’t think you’re getting a good enough education watching the Pinky Show – but heck, I could be wrong ’bout that too, right Antidote? Just like I’m wrong to think that some goys actually died to save the euro jews from the evil nazis in WW2.

      • Stone
        June 29, 2011, 3:12 pm

        Yes, exactly and so was WW1. The British, especially, never wanted Germany to become a strong country at all. Even after the fall of the Wall, British politicians were not keen on reunification. Also racism was involved with the US. The US had quite racist immigration policies towards the Japanese for many years. So it was oil, racism and pure imperialism throughout the Pacific that led to the conflict there.

      • Citizen
        June 29, 2011, 5:46 pm

        No doubt about it, Stone, further, British fear of German rivalry grew like Topsy as Germany’s navy grew; the military-industrial-colonial competition between the two was a big factor in leading up to the outbreak of WW1. Bismarck’s Germany made the Brits really fear they might not always rule the seas.

      • kalithea
        June 26, 2011, 1:07 pm

        Oh, here we go…the victim card rears its ugly head. Using the Holocaust to score a cheap point, are you?

        What you really mean to say here is that Zionists will go as far as using “evil” to get their way because no one believes better than Zionists that the end justifies the means and I mean NO ONE. How sad that you must stoop to using the Jewish people in general and the Holocaust to further your drama and as a means of manipulation. You must think emotional blackmail is real clever.

      • Chaos4700
        June 26, 2011, 1:42 pm

        So who wins when Israel is allowed to starve children, or set them on fire with white phosphorous or heard them into concentration prison camps?

      • Shingo
        June 26, 2011, 5:23 pm

        In WWII evil won.

        If you’re referring to Zionism, ethnic cleansing in Palestine and colonialism, you have s point eee.

      • kapok
        June 26, 2011, 7:04 pm

        triumph of evil? like cast lead?

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 27, 2011, 7:36 am

        Exactly. The Israeli is the Nazi to the Palestinian.

    • Bumblebye
      June 26, 2011, 2:02 pm

      Did the Israelis threaten economic warfare some time ago, in response to potential bds?
      Maybe they’ll use Greece as a test-run, expecting Uncle Sam to help pick up the pieces when the blowback hits them. Forgetting that such action would undoubtedly slap Uncle in the face (and pocketbook) too, finally (dream on, me) stepping well over the line.

      • ritzl
        June 26, 2011, 7:36 pm

        Yup. Dynamics far beyond simply stopping a few ships sailing toward Gaza are being put in play by whatever pressure and threats the US-backed Israeli power-play is designed to narrowly achieve. Effects that would touch US voters that don’t necessarily pay attention at this point.

        Greece has a play and/or a bluff to call if they’re disposed to let the Flotilla sail in a pressure-free context.

    • pineywoodslim
      June 26, 2011, 4:00 pm

      @Taxi

      “All these beefy world honchos being forced to address the petite Gaza flotilla is a clear testament to the momentous and TANGIBLE power of it’s peace activism.”

      Very well said.

      • Mooser
        June 27, 2011, 2:12 pm

        Notice this: “eee” thinks he owns “the Jews”.

  7. kalithea
    June 26, 2011, 11:04 am

    If this blatant attempt at sabotage of this humanitarian mission to Gaza doesn’t expose the fact that Zionists want to control foreign governments to the advantage of Israel then I don’t know what will. It’s obvious to any idiot that Zionists exert pressure of all kinds on EU countries to get their way. I won’t even mention Occupied Congress since we got proof of Zionist control of Congress during Cast Lead, and on other issues such as the Goldstone Report, but more clearly than ever when “yahu” was in town. But Zionists are busy working to expand their lobbying and hasbara network in Europe and they use various tactics ranging from blackmail to bribery to massive propaganda in between. They’re masters at worming their way into power by pouncing on weakness and using political rivalry to gain support. They, themselves admit to trying to pressure EU governments to vote against Palestinian statehood through aggressive lobbying in Europe and elsewhere but they go much further than that.

    Zionism is a scourge on civilization tearing away at the fabric of democracy that is supposed to protect human rights and the dignity of man. Zionism is attempting to coerce countries to compromise their values, their conscience and IN FACT Zionists are manipulating others to look the other way while they undermine and twist the Law to suit them.

    We are on a dangerous path if we allow Zionists to trample our sovereignty and hold hostage governments to prevent them from doing what is legal and morally right.

    I feel outraged at being rendered evermore so powerless and having the Democracy I hold dear undermined by these greedy, selfish saboteurs!

    • annie
      June 26, 2011, 11:22 am

      But Zionists are busy working to expand their lobbying and hasbara network in Europe and they use various tactics ranging from blackmail to bribery to massive propaganda in between.

      electronic intifada recently posted Israel lobby group outlines dirty tricks against campus Palestine activists which catalogs many of their tactics. nothing we’re not already familiar with but informative none the less. my favorite being don’t focus on…arguments…. Instead, accuse them… of “academic malpractice” .

      iow, leave the facts at home, just lavishly slander.

      • kalithea
        June 26, 2011, 12:22 pm

        Interesting article. I hadn’t seen it, thank you. However, someone should do an investigative study on how Zionists operate in foreign countries; something really extensive like Walt and Mearsheimer’s “The Israel Lobby” which focuses mostly on Zionist control in the U.S.

        The “occupation” that happened in the U.S. is expanding into other countries. Someone should expose it before it’s totally rooted. Maybe Walt and Mearsheimer should work on a sequel: The Israel Lobby -International Network, something like that. They should interview politicians, professors, activists everyone and anyone who has had the misfortune to get in the way of Zionists and suffered professional setbacks or a “name and shame” campaign against their reputation or find individuals who will admit to having been pressured by subversive tactics whether it be campaign financing or smear threats.

    • eee
      June 26, 2011, 12:25 pm

      What a hateful comment. What you write is so biased and so hateful it beggars belief. But you have a right to say and believe what you want. This time around we have the IDF if you plan to do anything more than talk.

      Israel has a right to use diplomacy just as much as any other state and it does not use it differently than any other state.

      • kalithea
        June 26, 2011, 12:49 pm

        “This time around we have the IDF if you plan to do anything more than talk.”

        Hey-hey now, stop throwing you weight around. What kind of a stupid comment is that?

        Diplomacy, my eye! Are smears, threats, destroying careers, interfering in foreign government policy by issuing demands in letter form and influence peddling what Zionists consider “diplomacy”?

      • ddi
        June 26, 2011, 12:58 pm

        “This time around we have the IDF if you plan to do anything more than talk.”

        O yes we all know that the mighty IDF is expert at murdering civilians, no need to remind us.

      • Chaos4700
        June 26, 2011, 1:43 pm

        “Hateful” is boarding a ship in international waters and murdering people execution-style.

      • American
        June 26, 2011, 2:02 pm

        “This time around we have the IDF if you plan to do anything more than talk.”

        Oh man, that is so delusional.
        On the world stage Israel and the IDF are pipsqueaks, a street gang…..any power you have derives from the US….without that you are nothing.

      • eee
        June 26, 2011, 6:16 pm

        Israel does not claim to be a world power nor aspire to be a world power. But we can very much hold our own in our neighborhood, and if we have to, we can manufacture and develop by ourselves any weapons that we need (including planes) and the only country that can defeat us in war is the US. We cannot project power, but nobody in the world except the US can project enough power to beat us. And that is good enough for me. That is exactly what the IDF is for. For the first time in 2000 years, Jews do not have to worry about being attacked without severe cost for the attacker.

      • annie
        June 26, 2011, 6:19 pm

        we can very much hold our own in our neighborhood

        not without help from your special friend you can’t.

      • Shingo
        June 26, 2011, 7:09 pm

        Israel does not claim to be a world power nor aspire to be a world power.

        Israel has simply settled for corrupting law makers of the world’s largest power, though like any parasite, Israel doesn’t know when to stop.

        But we can very much hold our own in our neighborhood, and if we have to, we can manufacture and develop by ourselves any weapons that we need (including planes)..

        No you can’t. You’re basing your false assumption on the statu quo – which is Israel puncinh far above it’s weight due to free arms, unlimited money and the unhidered flow of intellectual property/military>secrets/technology from the US.

        …and the only country that can defeat us in war is the US.

        Alogn with India, Russia, France, Britain, and Hezbollah.

        .For the first time in 2000 years, Jews do not have to worry about being attacked without severe cost for the attacker.

        So why are your leaders lyhing about Iran posing a threat to Israel?

      • eee
        June 26, 2011, 7:18 pm

        Really? Based on what do you say that? Continue with your wishful thinking. Certainly, it would be more difficult but quite feasible. The US did not give Israel significant support till after 67.

      • annie
        June 26, 2011, 7:39 pm

        The US did not give Israel significant support till after 67.

        when did israel start stealing nuke ideas and materials? do you really think if that was any other country we wouldn’t retaliate? are you going to pretend this wasn’t discovered? and what about the lobby that doesn’t have to register as a foreign agent? certainly that was going on before ’67. are you telling me israel could defend itself just fine w/out the constant thieving off the american public? then why the f do they do it eee, just because they can? i doubt that. israel depended on the US from the get go. don’t forget that.

      • Citizen
        June 26, 2011, 7:41 pm

        eee, the US stopped England, France, and Israel in their tracks under Ike. Israel has never fought a real military power. Today, either England or France could defeat Israel easily. Israel would drop way below on the list of powerful nations without the USA’s endless support in every way conceivable. It couldn’t defeat Hezzbollah, and Nixon saved it in ’73.

      • Shingo
        June 26, 2011, 7:45 pm

        Continue with your wishful thinking. Certainly, it would be more difficult but quite feasible.

        With all the technology, military secrets Israel has stolen from the US, it might be feasible to build a prototype, but Israel has no resources to pull it off.

        BTW. Wars need oil. Israel has none, hence without US support, Israel cannot maintain a war for more than a few days.

        The US did not give Israel significant support till after 67.

        False. Withjout the US, Israel would never have been recognized and without the US support.
        Without US green light, Israel would never have stared the 1967 war,

        Without US support, the fighter planes that came to the aid of the Liberty woudl nothave turned back and Israel would have been smashed

      • ritzl
        June 26, 2011, 7:46 pm

        Didn’t the US have to resupply Israel in Lebanon/2006 and also during Cast Lead? Israel couldn’t sustain a month long “war” against an vastly weaker opponent (Lebanon). Why? Because they/you spend all their military aid largesse/money on Occupation.

        That simple fact alone should cause you to become an activist for ending the Occupation if you want to have a slim chance to credibly keep up this militaristic bravado, let alone have enough money and manpower to fight brush fires without Palestinian help.

      • Citizen
        June 26, 2011, 7:57 pm

        Really, eee? Truman would be hurt if you said that to him. Looking at things today, he might even feel: Too bad I let that arrogant, obnoxious Zionist rabbi back into my Oval office because I had an old business pal that happened to be Jewish.

      • RobertB
        June 26, 2011, 9:59 pm

        annie…This is a BBC Documentary on Israel’s undeclared “WMD’s”. This film was aired on LinkTV not too long ago. It was the only channel that would put it for American public viewing.

        A must watch…video!

        link to video.google.com

        Israel’s Secret Weapon (Secret Nuclear Weapons

      • annie
        June 26, 2011, 10:29 pm

        thanks rb

      • American
        June 26, 2011, 11:03 pm

        “but nobody in the world except the US can project enough power to beat us. And that is good enough for me. That is exactly what the IDF is for”

        Hump…more delusion.
        Have you ever read the US War College assessments of the capabilities of the IDF as a fighting force? They say the IDF is undisciplined and under trained, not a “military’ force but operates more like police swat teams…that you have a deficit of mature, well trained and combat experienced officers. That your only superiority in a war would be military equipment….BUT WAIT…even that has now changed…Saudi bought 39 BILLION….yep THIRTY NINE BILLION ….in US fighters and bombers and weapons last year…with their own money, not on the US taxpayers Credit card.
        Egypt could whip your ass and Turkey could whip it even faster if the US refused to ship Israel replacement equipment as the Egyptian or Turks ate it up. And both those countries have dozens millions more fighting age men to call upon in a war than Israel.
        The Israelis are not ‘warrior’ material, they are too concerned about a lose of Jewish numbers–the Arab countries don’t have that concern….in a ground war, after they have attrition-ed out your air power, they would slaughter you.

        And what would Israel do if the US wouldn’t come to their aid in a war? You think people hate you now? Wait until more Americans hate Israel even more for screwing this country by trying to or getting us into a war…then you will know what real hate is honey….it will be the kind you don’t come back from.

        Truly, you are insane to even think the way you do….unless you have a suicide wish…which evidently Israel does.
        Delusional is actually too mild a word to descibe what ails you and Israel.
        But go ahead…..”suicide is painless , it brings about many changes”

      • American
        June 26, 2011, 11:19 pm

        Yes, we sent Israel three shipments of US jet fuel before and after that time. It was sent from refineries in Texas.
        Plus Israel used stockpiled US equipment that is suppose to be for US military use if they need it, but we all know that the so called US Stockpile is in reality just another give away to Israel. Israel had as well surplus war equipment from our invasion of Iraq shipped to them, some of which they kept and some they resold.

        If Israel was left on their own they wouldn’t be able to export and sell their 7.2 billion in arms manufactured in Israel, they would have to use their own for their wars and since their arms exports are a major government revenue for them they would then be economically dead in the water.

      • RoHa
        June 27, 2011, 12:05 am

        “the US stopped England, France, and Israel in their tracks under Ike.”

        No, Citizen. The US stopped Britain, France, and Israel…

        “…Today, either England or France could defeat Israel easily. ”

        No, Citizen. Today, either Britain or France could defeat Israel easily.

        Why is this so hard for you?

      • Taxi
        June 27, 2011, 12:52 am

        Israel has fought all it’s wars riding on the backs of the French, Brits or Americans.

        Hizbollah kicked their ass, twice. I kid you not I actually saw footage at the time of idf soldiers lining up at the Lebanon border, wearing those funny looking camouflage shower-caps, getting a blessing from a rabbi then a glass of milk and a cookie before running off to battle with big guns in hand. Glass of milk and cookie – like isn’t that what you give kids at bedtime?

        Our military was rolling it’s eyes to the ceiling when israel asked them for further amo to be shipped out after only some four days into the conflict – the idf were using copious amounts of armory and producing zero results. And even more embarrassingly, in those first four days, the WHOLE WORLD could see with their own eyes that hizbollah was holding steadfast and CONTINUOUSLY outsmarting the idf on the battlefields. Unable to catch up with the hizb, all macho over-armed israel could do was target civilian structures and neighborhoods, killing over one thousand civilians (R.I.P.).

        I blame the idf’s loss of the 06 war on their immobile state of arrogant delusion. So long as israelis are bolted to their delusions, they will keep losing. And they’ve been losing a heck of a lot since the 06 war actually – that’s really when the tides began to turn against them.

        They shoulda learned their lesson the first time round: don’t mess with the Lebanese, they’ve been around longer than you have!

      • Shingo
        June 27, 2011, 1:34 am

        Unable to catch up with the hizb, all macho over-armed israel could do was target civilian structures and neighborhoods, killing over one thousand civilians (R.I.P.).

        And upon returning, they were crying like babies.

        Walid gives a very good account of the IDF Dough Boys now being able to hold heir poistions for more that 48 hour without being relieved of duty, while the Heabollah guys were bunkered down for 30 days.

        The Pentagon’s J-8 Directorate for Force Structure Resources and Assessment, which among other duties conducts analysis, assessments, and evaluates strategies for the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and some special American friends, agrees with Israeli military planners and Hezbollah on at least one subject–The next Hezbollah-Israel war will not see Israel using many ground forces outside of armored personnel carriers once they enter Lebanon. The reason is that all three agree with the Pentagon’s J-8 Directorates’ opinion that based on previous battlefield performance, it will likely require 5 Israeli soldiers to offset one Hezbollah defender’s battlefield acumen.

        I also recall reading a military blog, where US servicemen ridiculed and poked fun at the IDF commandos who atatcked the Mavi Marmara. None of the them were buying the al Qaeda argument and all of them were rolling their eyes at thje ineptitude and weakness of the IDF seals.

        The IDF ain’t what it used to be,

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 6:37 am

        Direct US aid to Israel brings as much income to Israel as its arms exports. And if you count indirect aid to Israel, e.g., US “loan guarantees” aka grants, double the income to Israel brought in by its arms export sales. Israel’s “feisty independence” is the same as a baby sitting atop the shoulders of an adult (Uncle Sam) in the water, fighting another baby alone in the water, way down there.

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 6:53 am

        Shingo: Bingo! Johnson sought to shore up his shaky Vietnam war by enlisting the Jewish Establishment and core portion of the MSM’s voice. The quid pro quo was to overlook what happened to the USS Liberty & muzzle its survivors.

      • RoHa
        June 27, 2011, 7:37 am

        And that’s not all, Citizen. I’m no expert on the topic, but there is this calculation by Stephen Zunes at
        link to wakeupfromyourslumber.com

        These figures are thirteen years old. As far as I can tell, they don’t include the huge sums sent by Jewish “charities” (a net loss to the US) , the cheap military equipment, and the subsidised jet fuel.

        Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

        Foreign Aid Grants and Loans $74,157,600,000
        Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid) $9,047,227,200
        Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments $1,650,000,000

        Grand Total $84,854,827,200

        Interest Costs Borne by U.S. $49,936,680,000

        Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers $134,791,507,200

        #Sums like these don’t grow on trees.

        You’ve got a pick a pocket or two, boys.

        You’ve got a pick a pocket or two.#

        (Lionel Bart)

      • Cliff
        June 26, 2011, 6:26 pm

        eee, you’re the only hateful person in this exchange.

        Your fascist worldview is made public now. Anyone can search your comment history and see all the stupid, racist and bigoted stuff you’ve said on this blog.

        No one takes you seriously. Get lost.

      • eee
        June 26, 2011, 7:20 pm

        Cliff,

        You are an antisemite and a liar. Since you are losing the argument, you are trying to shut me up.

      • Cliff
        June 26, 2011, 7:39 pm

        eee,

        You are a delusional pathological narcissistic; a megalomaniac.

        You use Jewish identity cynically to further your political opinions and ideology.

        You’re a racist, a bigot, and clear to everyone here (and anyone who does not share your distorted worldview) – an imbecile.

        As I said, get lost hater.

      • Taxi
        June 26, 2011, 9:04 pm

        Don’t forget to call us all holocaust deniers eee.

      • kapok
        June 26, 2011, 7:07 pm

        Goebbels, rolling in his grave, “Dang, we should have used words like ‘evil’ and ‘hate’ instead of honestly calling Jews scum; then we might have gotten away with it.”

      • Haytham
        June 27, 2011, 7:06 am

        instead of honestly calling Jews scum

        I don’t understand. I don’t subscribe to the term “anti-Semitism,” since I think we should resist all discrimination but what is the meaning of the above statement? Are you saying Jews are “honestly scum?” Or are you attributing this thought solely to Goebbels?

        Please clarify.

      • Mooser
        June 27, 2011, 10:31 am

        “Are you saying Jews are “honestly scum?”

        Ever met me?

      • Mooser
        June 27, 2011, 10:32 am

        Well, it might not be practical for us to meet, so just ask “EEE” about me.

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2011, 11:29 am

        Haytham ~ I think kapok is attributing the thought to Goebbels, not stating his/her own opinion. It is in quote marks after all.

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 27, 2011, 7:39 am

        LOL. eee complaining about another person being “hateful.” How precious.

        “Israel has a right to use diplomacy just as much as any other state and it does not use it differently than any other state.”

        Yes, it does. It uses it to keep its evil system of Zionism in place. No other state does that.

      • Mooser
        June 27, 2011, 2:13 pm

        “This time around we have the IDF if you plan to do anything more than talk.”

        What you mean-um “we”, paleface?

    • Citizen
      June 26, 2011, 1:47 pm

      kalithea, you are not alone here in the USA; our numbers grow by the day although you’d never know it listening to the likes of Frau M Bachmann.

  8. LeaNder
    June 26, 2011, 11:08 am

    there obviously is political pressure on Greece, but, that the “economic and political” crisis is caused by the austerity measures, is a very peculiar idea, considering that the state of Greece is on the verge of bankruptcy. And don’t you worry, Europe can’t allow that to let that happen, no matter what kind of stupid theories are floated at the moment: Like first and second grade European union membership.

    The European Union doesn’t have any fiat money yet. And since there are other countries that are in danger, it better watches closely and doesn’t pour it’s emergency funds into a potentially bottomless pail. As ironically most of the bad debts are already seem to be held by the European bank, or here in Germany by one bank that had to be saved by being taken over by the state, thus by the German state. So to stay with the scenario, ultimately the state would need a bailout. But the taxes are flowing in quite well over here in Germany at the moment it seems.

    Besides in a couple of years there will be an emergency fund of about 700 billion, does anyone have doubts that speculators watch this closely and already develop ideas how one can skim a little of it?

    • Citizen
      June 26, 2011, 1:51 pm

      Sure, LeaNder, GS has a special team working on skimming that moola; and Chelsea Clinton’s hubby is working on it too for his hedge fund firm.
      It’s called building the American Dream, which is, as Frau Bachmann tells us, the other side of the Israeli dream. So how are your billonaire German citizens doing on this? I imagine the same thing ours are doing.

      • LeaNder
        June 27, 2011, 2:32 am

        I do not know what GS is supposed to mean.

        Obviously the billionaires/millionaires aren’t paying the bill neither in Germany nor in Greece, nor in any other place in the world. As you know the average citizen has no expert tax avoidance schemes. Among the most critical voices, by the way, over here in Germany are people of Greek origin. Corruption and tax avoidance seem to be wide spread.

        Here in Germany during the depression the rigorous saving policy was disastrous. It may not be the best way for Greece either. But why should you worry, if there are taxpayers that can pay? And from a political perspective it is: après moi le déluge.

        Fact is, I do not know what and how exactly this happened. They already raised sales tax to an unbelievable 23% last year. Which suggests there weren’t enough taxes to pay back loans already then.

        Greece doesn’t have much industry. And yes, the Germans have a huge interest in stabilizing the Euro, after all they are the main export nation. A shared currency is important to be able to remain competitive.

      • Citizen
        June 28, 2011, 11:09 am

        GS is Goldman Sachs et al.

  9. Sin Nombre
    June 26, 2011, 11:14 am

    Funny thing: Much of Israel’s anger over the Goldstone Report wasn’t disputing the facts of what happened on the ground, it was the imputation of guilt for same on Israel collectively.

    But when it comes to the collective guilt of the Gazans…

    You know, after observing the behavior of Israel and its partisans long enough you begin to wonder if there is even one teensy, tiny issue where they don’t insist on their right to always and everywhere be judged differently than everyone else.

    Like some kind of belief in divinely granted uniqueness that everyone must bow down before.

    • Mooser
      June 27, 2011, 2:17 pm

      “Like some kind of belief in divinely granted uniqueness that everyone must bow down before.”

      How many times do I have to say it? The ultimate Zionist wet-dream is to prove to the world that there is no common humanity between the Jews and the rest of the world. If they can inspire enough rejection of the Jews, prove to the world that the Jews cannot be tolerated as equals, that would probably (in their dreams) leave the Jews with nowhere to turn except the Zionists.
      That’s what is at the bottom of all “eee”s comments: the idea that Jews cannot live with others.

  10. kalithea
    June 26, 2011, 11:32 am

    I wonder how Zionists got the UN to state in their report on the Mavi Marmara Massacre that this blockade is LEGAL, when the UNHRC has been denouncing this blockade for years and demanding that Israel lift the blockade???

    I wonder how they got the U.N. to slant their report against Turkey alleging an association between the Turkish government and the IHH and stating that the Turkish government is to blame for the outcome on the Mavi Marmara?

    • Citizen
      June 26, 2011, 1:54 pm

      Simple, Turkey did not stop the first flotilla. It has learned its lesson. It won’t be involved, even though all but one of those murdered were Turkish citizens. US is now copying Turkey, and so is the EU and the Brits.

  11. dbroncos
    June 26, 2011, 11:52 am

    If the flotilla sails from Greece and is intercepted by Israel’s Navy the ‘light unto the nations’ brand will suffer another blow. If it’s denied permission to sail it will also suffer. Either way we are witnessing the desperate thrashings of a Zionist strategy to convince the world that an exclusive Jewish State is necessary and that Palestinians don’t matter. The strategy isn’t working.

    • seafoid
      June 26, 2011, 12:22 pm

      There is going to be a flotilla every year until the siege is broken .Every time Israel kills activists it shoots itself in the foot. Israel’s PR image in Europe, which was built up painstakingly over 60 years, is being strangled by Lieberman and Bibi. And we buy the majority of Israeli exports, remember.

      • Citizen
        June 26, 2011, 1:56 pm

        seafoid, I don’t think the EU got your message; they’ve basically mirrored the US, saying in effect, “You’re on your own, but we will help you bring the casket back.”

    • kalithea
      June 26, 2011, 12:40 pm

      Yes, but you have to admit that grounding the Flotilla and aborting its mission will fizzle in the press.

      The powerful irony intended in naming the U.S. ship “The Audacity of Hope” will sink like a lead balloon if this ship is prevented from attempting to break the barrier of injustice and hopelessness with its cargo of hope.

      • Citizen
        June 26, 2011, 1:57 pm

        Next time around the US boat should be called USS Liberty.” No irony there.

  12. eee
    June 26, 2011, 12:30 pm

    Stopping the flotilla from leaving Greece using non-violent means is completely fair and something that most Israeli citizens expect their politicians to do. It is telling that you don’t even approve of Israel using diplomacy.

    • kalithea
      June 26, 2011, 12:42 pm

      You call this: Israel using DIPOMACYYY? Is this your pathetic attempt at humor or are you trying to insult our intelligence?

    • Chaos4700
      June 26, 2011, 1:44 pm

      Your idea of “diplomacy” is to threaten Greeks with poverty? “Do as your told or we’ll do everything in our power to make you live like Gazans under siege!”

      • eee
        June 26, 2011, 2:20 pm

        We don’t know for a fact how Israel is pressuring Greece, but yes, political and economical pressure is diplomacy. It is called soft power.

      • Chaos4700
        June 26, 2011, 10:14 pm

        So you’re saying that you might not be blackmailing Greece… but it’s good diplomacy that you are. Cute.

    • Citizen
      June 26, 2011, 1:59 pm

      eee, is, “I suggest you move to the left,” diplomacy?

    • justicewillprevail
      June 26, 2011, 2:25 pm

      It is telling you haven’t any idea what ‘diplomacy’ means. But do carry on trying to reinvent the English language. Orwell called it newspeak.

    • Walid
      June 26, 2011, 4:12 pm

      eee, for now, Israel is using non-violent means although economic blackmail is violent, but it has a past record of having sent a Mossad team to Cyprus in 1988 to disable the ferry bought by the PLO to take Palestinians to Haifa to make a stand about their RoR. The ferry was named “al Awda”, meaning “the return” and back then, Israel also used economic blackmail to short-circuit another sailing towards Israel. So if the non-violent way wouldn’t have worked in blocking the Hope, Israel surely had another more violent plan. Remember the Mavi Marmara, remember al-Awda.

      About the al-Awda that was sunk in port by Mossad to prevent its sailing to Haifa, from Wiki:

      “The 6,151-ton Sol Phryne was purchased in some secrecy by the Palestine Liberation Organisation and renamed Al Awda (“the Return”). The PLO planned to symbolically ferry 135 Palestinian deportees and, if they accepted the short notice invitation, hundreds of journalists and other observers, to the port of Haifa for a “journey of return” echoing the journey of the Exodus.[2][3]

      Israeli Defence Minister Yitzhak Rabin stated that Israel would oppose the voyage “in whatever ways we find,[3] while Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir labeled the journey “a declaration of war”.[4]

      A different, chartered ship had been scheduled to sail from Piraeus on 9 February, but the departure was postponed several times because Greek ship owners feared commercial retaliations from Israel if their vessel was used[3]. With this difficulty chartering a ship, on 13th Feb 1988 the PLO purchased the aging Sol Phryne in Limassol, Cyprus at auction for $600,000. By the time of the sinking the crew of the ship had not been informed of the new owners.”

      link to en.wikipedia.org

    • Shingo
      June 26, 2011, 5:29 pm

      . It is telling that you don’t even approve of Israel using diplomacy.

      Seeing as the Palestine Papers illustrated what “negotation” means to Israelis, eee might have a point – threatening destruction could well bea form of diplomacy.

    • kapok
      June 26, 2011, 7:10 pm

      Diplomacy? I lol’d. Extortion.

    • Cliff
      June 26, 2011, 7:41 pm

      Why should we care about Israeli ‘diplomacy’ when it is used to stop an aide ship that will ease the suffering of a besieged people AND bring awareness to Israeli crimes?

      Who gives a damn about diplomacy when it’s used to mask crimes of the State.

      All that means, if it is true, is that Israelis who support this ‘diplomacy’ are twisted sadists like you eee. Big surprise.

  13. jon s
    June 26, 2011, 12:59 pm

    At least this time the flotilla organizers seem to have dropped the pretext of “delivering humanitarian aid”, leaving it as a straightforward pro-Hamas propaganda stunt.
    Meanwhile Gilad Shalit is marking five years in captivity, a year and a half since the last sign-of-life. We won’t forget him.

    • ddi
      June 26, 2011, 1:59 pm

      Everything that isn’t GOI approved is a pro-Hamas propaganda stunt.

    • Citizen
      June 26, 2011, 2:06 pm

      So, jon s, the whole US Congress (except for a few like Kucinich & Ron Paul) stands up to kiss Bibi N 29 times, and US citizens cannot send sympathy & love letters to the people of Gaza? Are you an American? Shalit wore an IDF uniform when he was captured during a military exercise against Israel’s foes, but the thousands of innocent civilian Palestinians kids in Israel’s prisons did nothing but be born Palestinian on their own family’s land. Sure let’s free Gilad S & Pollard too! And nuke the Audacity Of Hope!

    • American
      June 26, 2011, 2:17 pm

      Leave to the trolls to bring out the old Hamas supporters propaganda.

    • justicewillprevail
      June 26, 2011, 2:24 pm

      At least you’ve dropped the pretence of having anything original to say, or remotely factual. He’s where Yahoo and Leiberman want him – a political tool to be used and exploited. Getting him out would deprive him of that, so they’re not exactly in a rush to negotiate his release, despite the offers. We won’t forget the thousands of Palestinians murdered and dispossessed by Israel, not to mention the thousands locked up without trial.

    • Sin Nombre
      June 26, 2011, 2:30 pm

      “Gilad Shalit is marking five years in captivity, a year and a half since the last sign-of-life. We won’t forget him.”

      No, and you shouldn’t. But then Israel somehow expects (officially even! with gov’t sanctions!) the Palestinians to forget Nakba Day. (Not to mention the thousands of P’s in the Israeli prisons. )

      Like I said above, you just start longing for Israel or its partisans to stick to just one standard for all.

      • Donald
        June 27, 2011, 8:40 am

        “Like I said above, you just start longing for Israel or its partisans to stick to just one standard for all.”

        Yep. But most of their self-image goes down the toilet if they do. People who have so much psychological investment in some ideology don’t give up on it easily. It’s why Jim Crow lasted as long as it did and on a different part of the political spectrum, it’s why so many Western supporters of communism took so long to realize what a disaster that system was.

    • kalithea
      June 26, 2011, 2:53 pm

      Where do you get the impression this is a Hamas propaganda stunt except in your own deluded imagination?

      These people are bringing messages of hope, sympathy, supplies and awareness to the plight of the people in Israel’s open air prison.

      You may not have forgotten Shalit but for your King Yahu, he’s out of sight out of mind and merely a convenient political tool.

      Where’s your sympathy for the thousands of Palestinians including children held captive by Israel?

    • Taxi
      June 26, 2011, 3:13 pm

      jon s,

      A single SOLDIER in captivity for 5 years DOES NOT EQUATE the occupation and imprisonment of some SEVEN MILLION PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS for the past SIXTY FOUR YEARS.

      Pathological ‘victims’ like you are mere wolves in sheep’s clothing.

    • pineywoodslim
      June 26, 2011, 3:48 pm

      At least you don’t buy into the official Israeli line that the flotilla is nothing but terrorists carrying weapons. If the peaceful delivery of letters to Gazans is perceived by Zionists such as yourself as a threat—so be it. And I would agree with you that it is a threat to Israel’s extremist and inhuman policies.

      And, as Shalit’s parents say, it’s Netanyahu who’s playing political games with their son.

    • yourstruly
      June 26, 2011, 4:35 pm

      One soldier of occupation in captivity for five years compared to how many palestinians imprisoned & for how long? Oh, forgot, only the occupier counts. Shades of the days of yesteryear when europeans occupied and destroyed one indian nation after another, though with a different ending this time – Delegitimization of the settler entity + justice for the natives – en route to peace on earth and goodwill to all living beings.

    • seafoid
      June 26, 2011, 4:35 pm

      “We won’t forget him”

      Of course you will, Jon. Just like you forget Ron Arad.
      As well as all the Israelis driven into poverty because of YESHA.

    • Shingo
      June 26, 2011, 5:02 pm

      Similarly Jon,

      We aperciate you dropping your so claim to being a called “post Zionist” , leaving it as a straightforward Likudnik.

      Meanwhile Gilad Shalit is marking five years in captivity

      And the 2 brothers kidnapped the day before, are marking 5 yers and one day in captivity – that is assuming they are still alive. You haven’t forgotten them because being Palestinians, they are not worth remembering right?

    • kapok
      June 26, 2011, 7:12 pm

      And I’ll never forget the wino with one leg who fell off his crutches and asked for a hand up.

    • Cliff
      June 26, 2011, 7:45 pm

      Jon, your racist apartheid State holds 1000s of Palestinian prisoners. Your racist apartheid State kidnaps innocent men, women and children – and the elderly.

      Your racist apartheid State, locks up non-violent protest organizers and activists for ‘incitement’ while portraying itself as the ‘only’ democracy in the ME.

      Meanwhile, you are only concerned about a soldier who has been captured and held prisoner. A soldier who served in the occupying army. The colonial army.

      You’re a joke. We won’t forget the thousands of Palestinians abused by the IDF on a daily basis. The thousands held prisoner. The thousands detained – many children. Etc. etc.

      Your ‘one’ soldier, is a publicity stunt. You don’t give a damn about him. You only use him to further your political demonization of Hamas (when you really are trying to demonize the Palestinian people).

    • Cliff
      June 26, 2011, 7:51 pm

      It’s typical that a partisan hack like Jon S, with no moral compass and sense of proportionality would use one Israeli prisoner – a SOLDIER – as some kind of symbol of human rights abuse.

      Israeli crimes in this area trump Hamas crimes 1000-fold.

      Yet, Jon will cry his Zionist heart out for Shalit as if it’s the end of the world.

      Let’s look at how Israel treats Palestinian children prisoners:

      link to time.com

      Under Israeli military law, which prevails in the Palestinian territories, the crime of throwing a stone at an Israeli solider or even at the monolithic 20-ft.-high “security barrier” enclosing much of the West Bank can carry a maximum 20-year-prison sentence. Since 2000, according to the Palestinian Ministry for Prisoner Affairs, more than 6,500 children have been arrested, mostly for hurling rocks.

      The report states that “the ill-treatment and torture” of Palestinian child prisoners “appears to be widespread, systematic and institutionalized, suggesting complicity at all levels of the political and military chain of command.” The group’s director, Rifaat Kassis, says the number of child arrests rose sharply in the past six months, possibly because of a crackdown on Palestinian protests in the West Bank in the aftermath of Israel’s military offensive in Gaza.

      Why does your racist apartheid State, torture kids?

    • Chaos4700
      June 26, 2011, 10:15 pm

      Don’t you have some Palestinian schoolchildren to go beat up, Mr. Settler? Or are Sundays the day of the week you go out to burn olive groves?

    • pjdude
      June 27, 2011, 1:11 am

      TRypical you spit on real victims while worshiping a thug who was legitmiately captured in his thug duties.

    • Woody Tanaka
      June 27, 2011, 7:44 am

      “Meanwhile Gilad Shalit is marking five years in captivity”

      Big deal. He’s a POW. He can be held until Israel agrees to end the conflict.

    • Mooser
      June 27, 2011, 10:42 am

      “Meanwhile Gilad Shalit is marking five years in captivity, a year and a half since the last sign-of-life. We won’t forget him.”

      Aww! Gilad Shalit with strings!

      • jon s
        June 27, 2011, 12:36 pm

        Mooser, you’re a real humanist.

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 2:08 pm

        jon s, you are correct, Mooser is a real humanist, which is precisely why he’s not addicted to Ziocaine.

      • Mooser
        June 27, 2011, 2:21 pm

        Thanks, it’s one of my most endearing qualities. With that, and almost constant kow-towing to Gentiles, a Jew can just about survive in America. That’s why I don’t move to Israel, where I would have to kow-tow to Zionists. Might destroy my faith in human nature.

      • Chaos4700
        June 27, 2011, 7:04 pm

        Shut up, jon. You’d rather Shalit was dead, anyway. That way Hamas would have nothing to trade for the thousands of civilians you keep in prison camps. It’s bad enough that you care more about one Israeli than you do about thousands of Palestinians but I think even that is extending too much credit to you.

  14. Sherri Munnerlyn
    June 26, 2011, 2:14 pm

    I was wondering if anyone has read about the possibilities of Th Audacity Of Hope passengers securing pasage on other ships, along with their letters and any other cargo they may have, if their ship is not allowed to sail from Greece. Last I read there were presently 20 ships planning to make up the flotilla, with other ships in Greece, as well. It seems to me there is certainly the potential for these activists to work closely together and make this a much more succesful joint venture/undertaking for all participants from all nations represented. Sherri Munnerlyn

  15. American
    June 26, 2011, 2:14 pm

    I think it is most likely that the US is using the IMF, and WTO as well, to exert pressure on Greece. We have done that before numerous times regarding Israel. Israel on it’s own doesn’t really have enough heft to pressure Greece.
    The pressure path would be the US pressuring the EU to pressure Greece.
    10 to one the calls Greece is getting on this are second hand from EU, originated by the US.
    The WTO has also been one of the US’s favorite back room tools for threatening member countries at the UN.

  16. Sherri Munnerlyn
    June 26, 2011, 2:22 pm

    Jon S, Did you read the article in Haaretz today entitled Noam Shalit to Netanyahu: You have no mandate to sentence my son to death? I see Gilad Shalit’s continued detention as mostly attributable to the Israeli leadership’s refusal to enter into a prisoner exchange with Hamas. Apparently, his own father sees it that way, too.

    • eee
      June 26, 2011, 6:21 pm

      Fair enough, I see Hamas responsible for the blockade because they won’t accept the Quartet conditions.

      • Shingo
        June 26, 2011, 9:56 pm

        Fair enough, I see Hamas responsible for the blockade because they won’t accept the Quartet conditions.

        In which case, you must surely be in favor fo BDS of all of Israel, seeing as Israel has violated the Quartet conditions.

      • Chaos4700
        June 26, 2011, 10:16 pm

        The Quartet isn’t imposing the blockade. Just Israel. You’re spouting nonsense (no surprise).

        The only people responsible for the blockade are Israelis. This is like blaming the Jews for Warsaw.

  17. Les
    June 26, 2011, 4:32 pm

    Ann Wright won’t be the only ex-US ambassador joining the flotilla.

    Samuel Hart, a Former U.S. Ambassador, Plans to Participate in Gaza Flotilla

    link to commondreams.org

  18. American
    June 26, 2011, 4:37 pm

    I’d like to see every fishing boat in Gaza, with the group below, set sail to meet the floatilla…hundreds of them or however many they have.
    The floatilla needs more boats, hundreds of them, an overwhelming numbers of boats…..raise more money, get more boats, cover the water with them and just keep going, put the passengers in bullet proof vest and life vest and just keep going…..I don’t see why this can’t be done.
    Let Israel try to handle that……let them decide which of a hundred boats to fire on.
    Think bigger.

    GAZA, June 8, 2011 (WAFA) – Civil Peace Service – Gaza (CPSGAZA) Wednesday launched the international boat, Olivia, to monitor human rights in Gaza waters, according to activist Ruqaia Samrai.

    She told WAFA that a group of international and Palestinian activists launched the boat Olivia as the first official mission in Gaza waters to document Israeli violations against Palestinian fishermen.

    She said Gaza fishermen “need protection and help to fish and feed their families.”
    Samrai insisted that the main mission of Olivia is to monitor the Israeli violations, stressing that they will also protect Palestinian fishermen and help them.

    CPSGAZA crew, which consists of citizens from Spain, U.S., Italy and Belgium, will accompany Gaza’s fishermen to monitor and document the Israeli violations of international law.

    • Citizen
      June 26, 2011, 6:10 pm

      They better watch out for those Messerschmidt 109s, oops, I mean F-16s. And can we get somebody from the Hemingway family to take notes?

  19. RobertB
    June 26, 2011, 5:33 pm

    jon s June 26, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    “Meanwhile Gilad Shalit is marking five years in captivity, a year and a half since the last sign-of-life. We won’t forget him.”

    ~~~~~~~

    Jon

    There are thousands of Palestinians in Israeli prisons…including women & children. Many of them have been there for years without any hearing or legal representation.

    Take a look at the statistics, details & graphs…below/link:

    Current Number of Political Prisoners and Detainees

    1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 5,935 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. (View Sources & More Information)

    Palestinian Prisoners

    Administrative detainees 207
    Female Prisoners 37
    Child detainees 209 (29 under 16)

    Palestinian Legislative Council members 10
    East Jerusalem prisoners 197
    1948 Territories prisoners 187
    Gaza prisoners 684
    Prisoners serving life sentences 798

    http://www.ifamericansonlyknew.org

    • annie
      June 26, 2011, 6:18 pm

      Palestinian Prisoners

      Administrative detainees 207
      Female Prisoners 37
      Child detainees 209 (29 under 16)
      Palestinian Legislative Council members 10
      East Jerusalem prisoners 197
      1948 Territories prisoners 187
      Gaza prisoners 684
      Prisoners serving life sentences 798

      robert, i can’t find these figures at your link and it doesn’t add up to 5,935 Palestinians, which is cited at your link.

      • RobertB
        June 26, 2011, 9:34 pm

        “robert, i can’t find these figures at your link and it doesn’t add up to 5,935 Palestinians, which is cited at your link.”

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~

        annie…The figures are there in the link that I provided…just scroll down to the “Current Number of Political Prisoners and Detainees” section. Then, click on (View Sources & More information) .

        @@@@@

        Here is the section & link regarding above.

        ======

        Political Prisoners in Israel/Palestine

        1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians,while 5,935 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.”

        link to ifamericansknew.org

      • annie
        June 26, 2011, 9:45 pm

        thanks robertb.

    • kapok
      June 26, 2011, 7:13 pm

      Stop the facts! You people are, are…EVIL!

      • jon s
        June 27, 2011, 12:46 am

        Gilad Shalit is a soldier seving his country and not accused of any crime. He was abducted from inside Israel, not while serving in an occupation.
        He has not been accorded his rights : no Red Cross inspections or contact with his family.
        As to the Palestinian prisoners: I don’t approve of administrative detention, but it should be pointed out that those cases are subject to judicial review.
        Those serving life sentences: what were they convicted of? Why not elaborate?
        Why does the list say “1948 territories”? I assume that you mean Israeli citizens.
        Don’t get me wrong: I’ve joined those urging Netanyahu to reach whatever deal necessary to achieve that boy’s release. I’ve expressed support and solidarity with the Shalit family.

      • Walid
        June 27, 2011, 7:10 am

        jon s, Israel says it’s in a state of war against Hamas, so stop saying the soldier was kidnapped and use the more appropriate “captured” term as this is what happens to soldiers. In any event, Israel doesn’t want the guy back as it passed up a dozen opportunities to get him back. He’ll eventually be released and he’ll write a book about his musings during his capitivity and make $20 million from it. You shouldn’t feel sorry for the guy as his continued captivity is helping Israel.

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 27, 2011, 7:50 am

        “Gilad Shalit is a soldier seving his country and not accused of any crime. He was abducted from inside Israel, not while serving in an occupation.”

        All of this is irrelevant. If he was a soldier as part of the force making war on the Gazan people, he is a legitimate target, as are all Israeli soliders and reservists, regardless of where he is at the time of his capture.

        And no criminal conviction by a Palestinians by an Israeli court is, in my opinion, free of reasonable doubt. The pervasive racism of Israel and of Israeli military supports that position.

      • Chaos4700
        June 27, 2011, 9:43 am

        Especially since people like jon did their damnedest to make a martyr out of him by bombing and shelling pretty much any building that Schalit might have been held within in Gaza (when they weren’t attacking mosques, schools, farms and UN warehouses, anyway).

      • Walid
        June 27, 2011, 10:47 am

        Chaos, Israel did the same thing in 2006 in Lebanon when it obliterated the parts of Dahia where the captured soldiers Regev and Goldwasser were most probably held. Israel either thought that they were held at one of the 5-star hotels that it did not bomb or that it was hoping of making martyrs out of them. It still got them back dead a couple of years later in an exchange for Kuntar which had been at the root of the whole mess in 2006 when Israel reneged on its promise to release him, which forced the capture of the 2 soldiers for the swap. Just before the Kuntar swap, Israel traded other Lebanese prisoners for the corpses and body parts of IDF soldiers that had been abandoned on the battlefield when the Israelis fled in 2006 for the corpse of the drowned Ethiopian Jew, Gabriel Dwait. Ironically, when the Israelis fled in 2006 from Maroun al-Ras, they still dragged with them back to Israel, 2 corpses and body parts of Hizbullah fighters to be used in a future swap, but abandoned the corpses and body parts of its own IDF soldiers in Lebanon. They sure don’t take care of their own.

      • RobertB
        June 27, 2011, 12:07 pm

        jon s…

        Your beloved IDF, child killers, shoot in the head & murder 9 & 10 year Palestinian boys/girls…And they Never Have to Spend One Hour in Jail…NOT ONE HOUR…Never for killing a Palestinian/Arab regardless of age and/or gender!!!

        Just serving their beloved Apartheid/Racist country…Israel…Eh !!!

      • jon s
        June 27, 2011, 12:34 pm

        Walid, Maybe you would like to change places with him?
        Seriously, “kidnapped” or “captured”, he’s being treated inhumanly and illegally.

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 27, 2011, 1:18 pm

        “he’s being treated inhumanly and illegally.”

        How do you know how he is being treated?

        But, who cares? Until the Israelis stop treating the Palestinians (both in custody and in custody-through-occupation) inhumanely, why the hell should I care about some gunman for the Zionist mafia-state?

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 1:29 pm

        jon s, he’s a POW and is being treated like a powder puff by the Palestinians (like Madoff & Pollard), but for trading purposes in accordance with the Hebrew saying that a single Jew’s fingernail is worth a thousand goy heads, or at least 6, 000 + innocent Palestininan heads, as is the actual case.

      • jon s
        June 27, 2011, 2:24 pm

        Citizen, Gilad Shalit is not being accorded his rights as a POW. His treatment is cruel and inhuman, an ongoing crime of the Hamas.
        I’d like to see the “Hebrew saying” about a “Jew’s fingernail”. Do you have the source?

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 27, 2011, 2:49 pm

        jon s,
        “Gilad Shalit is not being accorded his rights as a POW”

        The same is true of thousands of Palestinians. So why, again, should I care about one Israeli?

      • Walid
        June 27, 2011, 3:32 pm

        jon s, I have to disappoint you about how captured Israelis are treated. In 2004, there was a swap between Hizbullah and Israel that involved trading the Israeli spy and retired colonel, Elhanan Tannenbaum that Hizbullah had captured along with the corpses of 3 IDF soldiers captured on the occupied Chebaa Farms and 435 mostly Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

        On his arrival in TA, Tannenbaum was swamped by reporters wanting to know how his 4 years of captivity with Hizbullah had been. He said that all the time he was a prisoner, he was extremely well treated, ate good healthy food, was given plenty of books to read and had received the most courteous treatment. After this embarrassing episode on live TV, Israel whisked him off for “debriefing” but it was reported that he landed in an Israeli jail for a while. I would guess that Shalit is also being treated very well and as I said earlier, he’ll be making millions with his book. I wouldn’t trade places with an Israeli for any price because it’s nothing to be proud about.

      • Citizen
        June 27, 2011, 3:37 pm

        Jon s, please furnish documented support for your claim that Shalit is not being accorded his rights as a POW. We here don’t go for stuff you pull out of your tukas because it stinks of lies. As for the Hebrew saying regarding the comparitive worth of a jew and a goy,
        don’t you remember that famous Israeli leader who called goys “cockroaches?” Oh well, let’s try this for starters:

        Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburg declared, “We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy (cattle non-jews) are not the same thing.” (NY Times, June 6, 1989, p.5)
        Rabbi Yaacov Perrin said, ” One million Arabs are not worth a (single) Jewish fingernail.” (NY Daily News, Feb. 28, 1994, p.6).

        Other sources say the same kind of thing. But in different words. For example an article about a book: Israel Shahak’s Jewish History, Jewish Religion (1994) I found it on a Jewish education site.

        “Shahak further suggests that the Jewish tradition values Jewish life more than Gentile life. He cites Maimonides’ assertion that whereas one who murders a Jew is subject to the death penalty, one who murders a non-Jew is not (Mishneh Torah, Laws of Murder 2:11). According to another leading commentator, indirectly causing the death of a non-Jew is no sin at all….

        ….He quotes Maimonides’ statement that, “their [the Turks and the blacks] nature is like the nature of mute animals, and according to my opinion they are not on the level of human beings” (Guide For the Perplexed, Book III, Chapter 51). http://www.myjewishlearning.com...

        “The Talmud, particularly Tractate Avodah Zarah (Idolatry), discusses laws that govern interactions between Jews and non-Jews. Non-Jews are often not entitled to the same rights as Jews, reflecting a suspicion that gentiles would not reciprocate Israelite good will.” http://www.myjewishlearning.com...

        And jon s, aren’t you forgetting that recent book put out by that orthodox jewish israeli, the one so influential in current Israeli politics by those seeking to justify killing Palestinian babies since they might grow up to be mad at Jewish Israelis ( a la Himmler groupthink)?

      • Shingo
        June 27, 2011, 5:36 pm

        He said that all the time he was a prisoner, he was extremely well treated, ate good healthy food, was given plenty of books to read and had received the most courteous treatment.

        Much like the episode of the British sailors who were captured by Iran, and had to endure the humiliation of plaing table tennis and being sent back wearing cheap suits.

        After this embarrassing episode on live TV, Israel whisked him off for “debriefing” but it was reported that he landed in an Israeli jail for a while

        No doubt that was hs punishment for breaking his contract and not reading fro teh pre-prepared script of his horrible ordeal.

      • Chaos4700
        June 27, 2011, 7:01 pm

        It’s pretty stupid for you to be sitting there telling us how POW’s are supposed to be treated, jon, when you’ve turned Gaza into the world’s largest concentration camp and your country routinely engages in torture and assassination runs on other people’s sovereign land, and with falsified passports to boot.

      • RobertB
        June 27, 2011, 10:44 pm

        Citizen …This is a great post. This Jon S is attempting to sell his zionist’s propaganda that Israelis/Jews are the ultimate victims.

        Israel’s army & its brutal IDF killers, massacred about 1400 Palestinians & many of them were women & children in Gaza (December 2008/January 2009). They used the most sophisticated American made weapons on a mostly unarmed & helpless civilian population. Israel’s IDF even gunned down Palestinian civilians holding white flags. And to top it all, they used white phosphorus on Gaza civilians & neighborhoods. At first Israel denied using white phosphorus…then after the investigations results…Israel admitted that white phosphorus was used by its army in Gaza.

  20. ig
    June 26, 2011, 5:38 pm

    Has anyone heard of the possibility of this Arab boat joining the flotilla?

    link to kuna.net.kw

    The only other mention of the boat I have found is:

    The Navy and Military Intelligence are closely tracking the flotilla as well as reports that a Jordanian ship with close to 200 Palestinian and other Arab activists might join the sail to Gaza.

    link to jpost.com

    • Citizen
      June 26, 2011, 6:34 pm

      Pro-Israel folks in Europe are trying to stop the Arab boat; they’ve been trying to put a wrench in the deal that made it available. On the Israeli front, Israel has told all its journalists if anyone goes on a flottila boat they will be banned from publishing anything in Israel for a decade and all their equipment will be confiscated. link to australiansforpalestine.com

  21. Egbert
    June 26, 2011, 6:04 pm

    A post by Dena Shunra on Craig Murray’s blog gives more information

    link to craigmurray.org.uk

    The seaworthiness complaints have been filed by the Shurat Hadin organization. Anyone know anything about this organisation?

    link to glz.co.il

    • Citizen
      June 26, 2011, 6:21 pm

      Shurat Hadin says it is an Israeli-based Israel Law Center and Jewish civil rights organization dedicated to fighting terrorists the world over–in court, and it boasts of bleeding the terror groups dry: link to israellawcenter.org

      The female head was educated in England.

    • munro
      June 26, 2011, 6:21 pm

      Bankrupting Terrorism – One Lawsuit at a Time
      Shurat HaDin – Israel Law Center is an Israeli based civil right organization and world leader in combating the terrorist organizations and the regimes that support them through lawsuits litigated in courtrooms around the world. Fighting for the rights of hundreds of terror victims, Shurat HaDin seeks to bankrupt the terror groups and grind their criminal activities to a halt – one lawsuit at a time.
      link to israellawcenter.org

      • justicewillprevail
        June 26, 2011, 6:46 pm

        Maybe they should start with the Israeli government then. The source of some of the worst terror operations for many years.

    • kapok
      June 26, 2011, 7:16 pm

      Awesome find. The Zionists seem to think we all get our news from the Hearst Corp. once a week in scratchy b&w newsreels.

  22. ToivoS
    June 26, 2011, 7:38 pm

    There is something else going on here that seems to have escaped attention.

    It is true, or if you do not agree then just assume, that Israel and Gaza has no bearing on Greece’s financial crisis.

    Let us also assume that Israel really does not have that much economic power over Greece.

    What is obviously true is that Greece is threatening default and that in order to avoid an unorderly messy default process, Europe will have to accept some kind of hair cut on Greek bonds. This puts Greece in a very powerful negotiating position. But please keep in mind that Greece right now, is in the middle of negotiations with not just finance ministries, the WMF, ECB but also numerous funds and investment banks.

    Given that doesn’t it seem just a little plausible there is some investment banker out there who is willing to offer the Greeks a little cut on interest rates in exchange for stopping the flotilla? Is it inconceivable that there might be an investment banker out there willing to trade some points for an Israeli political gain?

    Also, if I were a Greek negotiator representing Greek debt, wouldn’t I look to extract some points from the European banker in exchange for favors to Israel? Wouldn’t that be natural since we all know that the European antisemites already believe the Jews control the bond markets?

    • Bumblebye
      June 26, 2011, 10:05 pm

      Don’t forget Stanley Fisher of Bank of Israel applied for DSK’s old job at IMF!

  23. Bart
    June 26, 2011, 8:07 pm

    Explain this conundrum, please. On the one hand, there are numerous postings about how various govt and non-govt entities are bought and purchased by Israel via outright bribery (see above) and other “financial incentives”. On the other, there are nearly as many postings about how US (mostly military) aid of roughly $3B to Israel is the only thing standing between it and imminent collapse.

    Seems to me you can’t have it both ways. Either they have substantial wealth by which to influence many others, or they are paupers. One or the other, folks.

    (received no responses to this when posted mid stream above – may have been overlooked)

    • American
      June 26, 2011, 11:42 pm

      I think the closer truth is Israel has some very wealthy ‘friends’ and some ‘connected” friends….but the state of Israel itself, as in the government, is not wealthy. Despite all they say, almost all their economic gains have been from US help, courtesy of those same wealthy and connected friends, sliding US industry business their way and also arranging trade benefits for them not available to others.
      Israel has dipped their beak and siphoned from almost every single US industry, from IT to pharmaceuticals…..and congress has given those industries some very good breaks for being so ‘nice’ to Israel.
      But those economics only contribute to Israel tax revenue and Israel has a huge welfare base for the religious, immigrant incentives to build up their numbers and for the illegal settlements. Bascially Israelis are living way above Israel’s actual means.

      • Bart
        June 27, 2011, 9:58 am

        So, when it gets down to it “american”, it boils down to Israeli MAGIC!? Wow, that is so very insightful of you. Do you have any other wisdom for me? :)

      • Mooser
        June 27, 2011, 2:26 pm

        “Do you have any other wisdom for me? “

        Good God, how many people do Phil and Adam have tied up in that basement, innocent Zionists forced to read and comment on Mondoweiss? No wonder they need funds, it must cost a fortune to feed those guys.

      • Bart
        June 27, 2011, 3:49 pm

        No has me tied up. Its just i enjoy interacting with the crazies. This place is overrun with ‘em. So it works for moi!

        PS: I come across the ” Zionism” word in four posts here than I’ve ever heard it spoken in my forty plus years of life. Absolutely Hilarious!

      • Donald
        June 27, 2011, 6:33 pm

        “I come across the ” Zionism” word in four posts here than I’ve ever heard it spoken in my forty plus years of life. Absolutely Hilarious!”

        You know what is Even Funnier? A rather unintelligent troll who thinks it is shocking that a blog devoted to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict uses the term “Zionism” a lot. Try reading about the conflict sometime. You might see the word pop up several more times.

      • annie
        June 27, 2011, 7:11 pm

        I come across the ” Zionism” word in four posts here than I’ve ever heard it spoken in my forty plus years of life.

        yeah, ol bart just kinda strolled on in here from the innertubes (with his ‘special’ grasp of the english language) havin’ practically never heard that pesky lil zionist word, but damn he’s havin’ such a fun time hanging w/the crazies he’s decided to come back the next day! riggggggghhhhtieo that’s making a world of sense, aint it bart.

      • RobertB
        June 27, 2011, 10:18 pm

        annie…

        These are blistering jabs to Bart’s , the “hasbara troll”, infected skull. Bart’s agenda on these threads seems to be … divert, sidetrack, change the topic…etc…

      • annie
        June 27, 2011, 11:37 pm

        blistering! lovin’ it baby. we caught ourselves a live one.

      • Citizen
        June 28, 2011, 11:19 am

        Bart, you really need to depart for once from Homer’s house. It’s in Israel, right?

      • Bart
        June 28, 2011, 4:21 pm

        Ive never been to Israel, Citizen – or Homer’s house (?) either, sorry.

        I did once visit the Bard’s place at Stratford Upon Avon. It was fantastic! That was nearly 30 years ago, however.

        I grew up in Atlanta, ga. Episcopal but not religious. Played small college baseball at a southern liberal arts school. Currently reside in the Brookhaven section of Atlanta. Will be running the Peachtree Road Race on Monday July 4th.

        Is that enough info to convince you I’m here of my own volition? Probably not. You and your ilk don’t like when something doesn’t agree with your preconceived notions. Ah well, I tried.

        The truth is, you folks are so used to hanging out with the choir, you have no idea where most of us are on these issues. It’s not where you think, FYI.

      • Woody Tanaka
        June 28, 2011, 4:46 pm

        “Ive never been to Israel, Citizen – or Homer’s house (?) either, sorry. ”

        Really? You don’t get the Homer reference, Bart?

        Q: Is there ANY real, honest to goodness American, over the last 20 years, who wouldn’t get it if you put the names Homer and Bart together??

      • Citizen
        June 28, 2011, 5:26 pm

        He chose the moniker to make it seem like he’s just an average American. Not fooling anybody. Not even cute. Wooden Israeli trying to blend; “yeah, you blend.”

      • Bart
        June 28, 2011, 11:49 pm

        I forgot why I chose Bart. Maybe cause it rhymes with fart lol

        I’m not an average American. I am above average, of course!

        So basically woody/ citizen, you believe whatever you want to believe, and to hell with what people say. Must be nice.

        I graduated from Lovett High School. I used to party in Buckhead . I drive a 2010 Audi. My father lives in Charleston, SC, where I have many relatives.

        My guess is there is nothing that would convince you. The truth is so inconvenient at times, isn’t it? Tks al gore….

        Create a yahoo email. I’ll take a picture of that days Atlanta paper (Ajc) and email it to you. (even though I hate the rag)

      • lysias
        June 28, 2011, 4:43 pm

        Corporate donations to politicians in the tens of thousands of dollars get tax and other breaks worth many millions.

        I imagine the same calculus works for pro-Israel campaign contributors.

      • Bart
        June 29, 2011, 8:05 am

        Great IMAGINATION!

        LOL. (you said it)

  24. yourstruly
    June 26, 2011, 8:31 pm

    palestine, both free & just?

    on the horizon

    & beyond?

    the future coming towards us

    what kind of world?

    up for grabs

    the winners?

    all living beings

    • yourstruly
      June 26, 2011, 9:15 pm

      the losers?

      the status quo & its supporters

      those among them who committed crimes against humanity?

      “members of the jury, in the case of so & so, on the charge of having committed crimes against humanity, how do you find the accused?

      “guilty as charged, your honor”

  25. bijou
    June 26, 2011, 9:49 pm

    The real question is, why is this flotilla perceived as being such a mortal threat to Israel and the US? Why has Israel gone so apeshit hysterical and why is the US totally in on this hysteria? Imagine being willing to use all the possible economic and diplomatic leverage at your disposal, including threatening to arrest your own citizens!!! All over a little boat carrying some letters? What the hell is going on? What is at stake here? Can someone please answer this question?

    What I mean is, what are Israel and the US so bloody terrified of?

    • annie
      June 26, 2011, 10:35 pm

      it’s simple bijou, israel acts like a control freak. they want to own the narrative, completely. what’s the point of owning congress and getting the sec of state to eat out of your hand if they can’t stop the little engine that could. they want to stop the flotilla because they understand last years flotilla was a pr nightmare and they cannot be seen as backing down. these little boats drive them crazy.

      • yourstruly
        June 26, 2011, 11:23 pm

        they can’t be seen as backing down?

        despite flotilla 1 having turned out to be a pr disaster for them?

        they know that once flotilla 2 docks in gaza

        game over

        + new rules

        by popular demand

      • Sumud
        June 27, 2011, 5:12 am

        bijou, annie & yours truly ~ I’d say that what Israel fears most is a free, prosperous, happy, non-occupied, non-blockaded Gaza. It needs Gaza to remain a pressure cooker.

        I imagine if the blockade was truly broken on Gaza and Israel gave up controlling Gaza’s sea and air-space, borders and 50% of it’s arable land via the 1km buffer zone, the economy in Gaza would experience extremely high economic growth for many years, unemployment would drop dramatically and whatever is left of the various militant organisations would likely stop their activities such as the launching of the occasional home-made rockets.

        The flotilla(s) threaten to highlight the awful conditions Israel has created in Gaza in the short term but in the longer term they will contribute to the eventual lifting of the siege. When this occurs all Israel’s silly hysterics about the 1967 “Auschwitz borders” will be seen for what it is: tripe. All but a tiny majority of Palestinians don’t want to “push the jews into the sea”, they want to be left alone to live their lives, like any other people of the world. Once Gaza is free Israel will then face increasing international pressure to unilaterally withdraw entirely from the West Bank. By that stage though, I think it will be too late and the one-person-one-vote struggle will be underway. Beyond a certain period in time withdrawing to the June 4 1967 borders will not be enough. Only withdrawing to the UN Partition Plan borders could possibly halt that movement (1p/1v) when it finally takes off…

    • Kris
      June 26, 2011, 10:50 pm

      It is truly terrifying to fascists like the governments of Israel and the U.S. when fear no longer keeps the people subservient and powerless.

    • Citizen
      June 27, 2011, 6:47 am

      bijou, answer:
      Israel is afraid of the whole non-Jewish world. It (& AIPAC et al) is sick with a traumatic neurosis in the psychiatric clinical sense–& by ancestral proxy yet! The problem for America is that Jewish campaign donations purchases the US WH & Congress, and Zionists in the US MSM keep the American people as a whole ignorant of just how much the tail wags the dog. The US political leaders & their governmental appointees are terrified of not getting and keeping their jobs. And the US masses have been instilled with fear of the Arab boogyman by the enmeshed activity of both factors.

  26. dbroncos
    June 27, 2011, 12:25 am

    RobertB:

    “annie…This is a BBC Documentary on Israel’s undeclared “WMD’s”. This film was aired on LinkTV not too long ago. It was the only channel that would put it for American public viewing.”

    An excellent documentary. The BBC’s “Dead in the Water” detailing Israel’s assault on the USS Liberty is another good one that will never see the light of day on American MSM.

    • RobertB
      June 27, 2011, 11:10 am

      dbroncos…I have watched “Dead in the Water” & Yes…indeed it is another good one to watch.

      34 US sailors got killed & 171 injured from Israel’s fighter jets , napalm & torpedos. The attack was during daylight & with the USS Liberty ship in international waters…with a large American flag on its deck.

      The Israelis wanted to kill every American on board & sink the USS Liberty…then blame Egypt for the attack/act of war…with the goal/objective to get the US to attack Egypt.

      Its “By Way of Deception…Thou Shalt Do War”…Mossad Motto!

  27. Pixel
    June 27, 2011, 2:25 am

    “Is Greece being blackmailed to put the brakes on Gaza flotilla?”

    A rhetorical question.

  28. HCG diet
    September 1, 2011, 1:33 pm

    Indeed a rhetorical question :)
    link to bottled-hcg-diet.com

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