‘Peace Now’ calls on Israel to end blockade but says flotilla is playing ‘dangerous game’

Israel/Palestine
on 61 Comments

Americans for Peace Now statement on the flotilla echoes their usual line, that the United States must place pressure on Israel. But how can the U.S. place pressure so long as the Israel lobby remains monolithic and in Obama’s face? The problem is that Peace Now, out of feelings of ethnic cohesion and allegiance to the conservative strains in the Jewish community, refuses to resign from the Conference of Presidents of  Major American Jewish Organizations, which says Israel has a right to do anything it pleases. And so Peace Now must echo those sentiments in this statement.

Now Israel is facing another flotilla, and it appears that another potential debacle is in the making. 

Let there be no doubt: the organizers of the flotilla are seeking to provoke a confrontation with Israel. In doing so they are playing a dangerous game. None of us knows what the consequences of their actions will be.

…Israel can and should choose a different role – by making the long-overdue decision to end the blockade and allow the boats to pass. Such a policy shift would avert a pointless confrontation and remove the pretext for future similar provocations. APN renews its longstanding call on Washington to engage the Israeli government to achieve this.

In the event that a confrontation does occur, APN calls on both participants in the flotilla and Israeli forces to avoid violence and ensure that the tragedy of 2010 is not repeated.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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61 Responses

  1. seafoid
    June 29, 2011, 9:09 am

    The hasbara . I presume eee , Witty and Hophmi can vouch for it.
    This is vile.

    link to israeltheviewfromhere.blogspot.com

    2. THERE IS NO HUMANITARIAN CRISIS IN GAZA. The International Red Cross has said so.
    You only have to search Google Earth to view spectacular pictures of modern day life in Gaza with beautiful homes, gorgeous squares and broad avenues, luxury hotels, fine restaurants, new sporting facilities, several splendid shopping malls. So what is all this nonsense of coming to rescue and free the poor people of Gaza?
    The gates are open between Israel and Gaza with aid, goods, money, and services finding their way into the Strip in an orderly and supervised fashion. There is full cooperation between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. All goods and services are checked by both parties and, as long as there are no weapon grade materials, everything flows into Gaza unhindered. Since the upheaval in Egypt the border between Gaza and Ehypt is now also open. The rush of Palestinian wishing to leave has been surprising. Only an average of two hundred and fifty people care to “escape” Gaza daily.
    If their motivation was to bring human rights and an expression of love and humanity to people in Gaza why did they refuse to make contact or demand that Hamas release Gilad Shalit. This Israeli boy was kidnapped in Israel, dragged across the border into Gaza, thrown into a dark room, been kept isolated from the world for five full years. Hamas has refused to offer any sign of life. They refused access from the International Red Cross. They cruelly taunt Shalit’s family. Yet, the “humanitarian” cruise passengers refuse to confront Hamas and demand the immediate release of Gilad Shalit from Gaza should they get there. Alice Walker! Where is your compassion now?
    Readers should research not only the level of prosperity in Palestinian society with an economy growing at a rate of 12% annually. They should also compare Palestinian lifestyle with other areas of the world. Life expectancy if longer than people in Africa and Asia. Child mortality is lower than those regions. Obesity is greater than those places. All signs of a healthy, wealthy, society.
    So why aren’t these flotilla radicals not taking their aid to places where it is desperately needed? Because the starving in Africa are not the poster child of the radicals, nor do they interest the Arab Muslim world. They have no interest in following the lead of stars such as Bob Geldorf and Bono who are genuinely trying to help the genuine needy of this world. Israel helps these people, as it helps improve the lives of Palestinians. The flotilla mob, however, are using their pet project as a club to beat Israel. That, ladies and gentlemen, is the bottom line, the profound truth, about what this flotilla joke is all about.

    There is also this

    As part of the rise in living standards, Gaza merchants focus on importing more luxury goods such as tropical fish, bicycles, camping gear and plasma TVs, which come straight from Israel. Once a week, some 70 Gaza traders travel to Israel to look for potential merchandise to import. Even the export market, albeit still in small quantities, has boomed recently with strawberries, flowers, potatoes and cherry tomatoes being sold to Jordan and the Persian Gulf states. Gaza tradesmen now plan to resume exports of Furniture and textiles to the West Bank, as was done four years ago. “–

    “‘Relative freedom if Hamas not provoked’ The Gazan summer is in full swing and the beaches, just like in Tel Aviv, are swarming with bathers. Families with children and hijab-clad women dip into the cool waters of the Mediterranean Sea. On the warm evenings, people sit at coffee shops and internet cafes that are becoming abundant. One hand grasps the water-pipe while the other is typing status updates on Facebook. In the background, large screens are broadcasting live soccer matches from the English and Spanish Leagues. “-

    link to ynetnews.com

    • eee
      June 29, 2011, 9:43 am

      This the truth, deal with it. There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. There are many people in Gaza who are well off. There are many poor people also. Just like in any other third world country.

      • seafoid
        June 29, 2011, 9:56 am

        It is because so many Israeli Jewis think like you that it is very hard to see a future for a Jewish state in the Middle East.

        • Chaos4700
          June 29, 2011, 10:00 am

          It’s also apparently very hard for many Israeli Jews like eee to consider Palestinians as human beings with human rights and human needs. Or for them to have the comprehension skills to read UN reports, apparently.

      • Chaos4700
        June 29, 2011, 9:59 am

        “The Holocaust didn’t happen!” Or something similar.

        Irony.

      • patm
        June 29, 2011, 10:12 am

        Give it a break, 3e. You’re spouting hasbara lies.

        • eee
          June 29, 2011, 12:19 pm

          There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza. It does not matter how many times you say the contrary. The images and facts on the ground are clear.
          Why would the International Red Cross lie?
          In fact, a significant part of the population is well off.

        • hophmi
          June 29, 2011, 12:36 pm

          I’m not sure why you harp on this point. There’s no humanitarian crisis. There are a lot of people who talk of a humanitarian crisis some day in the future.

          Again, perfectly good talking point for you, but you can’t resist the lie.

        • annie
          June 29, 2011, 12:39 pm

          ‘the international red cross’ did not lie. one uniformed bozo made a stupid statement. the people are still living in rubble for heavens seake eee. do you costantly have to blather your intolerance for humanity all over these threads? you should have to pay to make these kind of statements.

          take him to the cleaners! charge him an arm and a leg!

        • Woody Tanaka
          June 29, 2011, 1:11 pm

          “There is no humanitarian crisis”

          Typical israeli bullshit.

          link to icrc.org

          “Gaza: no end in sight to hardship and despair”

          If you see a distinction between “humanitarian crisis” and what is described by the ICRC here, then it does nothing but emphasize that you, and the demonic bastards that run your shitty little state, have no humanity to speak of.

        • eee
          June 29, 2011, 3:46 pm

          Annie,

          People living in tents or make shift houses is not a humanitarian crisis. Otherwise, many slums of large cities would be labeled an “humanitarian crisis”. People starving is a humanitarian crisis. In fact, there are many people in Gaza that are very well off. Most people even have internet access.

        • Shingo
          June 29, 2011, 5:30 pm

          In fact, a significant part of the population is well off.

          Where did you get the “fact” eee?

        • Chaos4700
          June 29, 2011, 7:49 pm

          Stupid Zionists. Really now.

      • American
        June 29, 2011, 2:02 pm

        You have to be kidding me.

        Israel has bombed Gaza how many times now?
        Does Cast Lead ring any bells?
        They destroyed how many Palestine power plants , hospital, schools, police buildings, homes?…on purpose.

        And you cretins screech like banshees and yell holocuast when one rag tag rocket falls in Israel.

      • Hostage
        June 29, 2011, 9:10 pm

        This the truth, deal with it.

        In fact the signatories of the Geneva Conventions have formally accepted the legal competence of the ICRC to act as a “Protecting Power” and as a “watchdog of international humanitarian law”. See for example the discussion of the role of ICRC in section 6.2 Enforcement Of The Law Of Armed Conflict, “6.2.1 The Protecting Power” and “6.2.2 The International Committee of the Red Cross” (page 6-3) in “The Commander’s Handbook On The Law Of Naval Operations Edition July 2007 (United States Navy, Marines, and Coast Guard)

        The ICRC is also one of the”Protecting Powers” cited in Article 103 of the San Remo Manual on International Law Applicable to Armed Conflict at Sea. The ICRC has declared that Israel’s blockade is an illegal form of collective punishment and deprivation that cannot be addressed by simply providing humanitarian aid. So, the ICRC has declared the blockade to be illegal. That’s the truth and you Israelis need to deal with it.

  2. eGuard
    June 29, 2011, 9:17 am

    So Peace Now is guided by … “ethnic cohesion” and “allegiance to the conservative strains in the Jewish community”. Colors showing. It’s another “we Jews” organisation.

    Suggested namechange: “Peace Now but …” (suggestions welcome).

  3. GalenSword
    June 29, 2011, 9:21 am

    Americans for Peace Now has always been an adjunct of the Israeli Labor Party.

    It cannot be taken seriously as a genuine pro-peace organization.

    It remains critical of the Likud and Likud-related parties but only because the dominance of this Zionist faction has generally denied power to the Labor Zionist faction and not because there is any genuine distinction in policy among the various Zionist factions.

  4. Kathleen
    June 29, 2011, 9:24 am

    Norman Finkelstein
    focus on Israel’s habitual commitment to breaking international law
    link to youtube.com

    Israel is trying to break Palestinians down in the Gaza for voting for Hamas

  5. Chaos4700
    June 29, 2011, 9:30 am

    Now Israel is facing another flotilla, and it appears that another potential debacle is in the making.

    So wait a minute. It’s a “debacle” for a nation when another nation they’re not friendly with gets a ship full of food? I don’t recall anyone ever talking about what a “debacle” for Iran or Lebanon it is that Israelis can get regular shipments of foodstuffs from the rest of the world.

    This is a real problem for Israelis, and for anyone who’s even a little bit Zionist. You all are basically saying, “My political beliefs require people of certain nationalities to starve, and if you try to feed them, we will wage war on you.”

  6. Kathleen
    June 29, 2011, 9:31 am

    Peace Now should change their name.

    Rogue State: Israeli Violations of U.N. Security Council Resolutions
    link to foreignpolicyjournal.com

    Wondering if folks could contact the BBC’s world service. Hopefully right now while they are on air live. Ask them why they have not covered the US boat to Gaza “The Audacity of Hope”? The flotilla, Secretary of State Clintons response to the flotilla…international law and international waters etc

    Please ask now
    [email protected]
    link to news.bbc.co.uk

  7. Eleanor Kilroy
    June 29, 2011, 9:46 am

    Peace When We’re Ready (which is not quite yet)

  8. Bumblebye
    June 29, 2011, 9:56 am

    Peace Maybe

    or

    Peace Sometime

  9. Bumblebye
    June 29, 2011, 10:03 am

    Meanwhile in London, Sheikh Raed Saleh has been arrested:
    link to guardian.co.uk
    Apparently, there’s some kind of travel ban involved, but nobody bothered to tell him, nor did the Border Agency bother to stop him. Farcical!

  10. Kathleen
    June 29, 2011, 10:08 am

    Over at Chris Matthews Hardball blog. Chris and Team ask what is “catching your eye” this morning. Let them know clearly they are not able to open their eyes or cover the flotilla, the I/P issue etc

    link to hardballblog.msnbc.msn.com

  11. hughsansom
    June 29, 2011, 10:11 am

    As others have noted, flotilla participants are “provoking a confrontation” no less so than did African Americans who sat at lunch counters, road in the front of buses, entered public schools in the segregated American South of the 50s and 60s.

    In that time, apologists for segregation — and those who were just not willing to press for change, like New York Times editors — blamed blacks and whites activists for “provoking confrontation.”

    Israel and its American apologists have repeatedly asserted that Gaza is “free,” that Israel withdrew. Meanwhile, if they do not expressly support the atrocities of blockade, they grossly downplay the misery (e.g., Ethan Bronner). If they are right, then what possible problem could there be in a boat carrying medicine docking in Gaza?

    If, as is in fact the case, the flotilla is acting to assert the rights of Palestinians, and if that provokes a confrontation with Israeli war criminals, so be it.

  12. Richard Witty
    June 29, 2011, 10:19 am

    I disagree with Peace Now on this, and with Bradley Burston.

    I don’t think that Israel should permit the flotilla to reach Gaza.

    It does however need to clarify the status of Gaza, whether it is occupied or not.

    But, Hamas needs to proceed on its responsibilities to responsibly join and participate in the PA, negotiate with Israel and achieve recognition by the world and immediate neighbors, so that transit to Gaza can be normalized.

    It can’t be without recognition and negotiation with Israel.

    The obstacles to Israel having to negotiate on the basis of 67 borders needs to be removed as the EU, Obama, UN, Arab League have been insisting.

    Hamas’ ambiguity/animosity continues to comprise a fundamental obstacle to the path to Palestinian sovereignty.

    The difference between a forced Palestinian sovereignty and a negotiated one is the difference between a state of war and a state of peace.

    Negotiations should be assertive, and Israel should cease settlement expansion as a prerequisite.

    Both likud and Hamas are the parties that need to change, not one, but both. The flotilla delays that.

    I DARE anyone here to declare that a state of war is a more progressive outcome for Palestinian civilians than a state of negotiated peace.

    • Woody Tanaka
      June 29, 2011, 10:34 am

      Notice here that Witty is basically asking everyone EXCEPT the Isralis to bend and twist and change, and he says not one word about the ethno-supremicist ideology of Zionism which is the heart of this entire conflict?? And yet he claims to be a liberal.

      • Richard Witty
        June 29, 2011, 11:34 am

        And I am accused of not reading posts.

        • Woody Tanaka
          June 29, 2011, 3:19 pm

          Yes, you are. Because the only thing that you call on Israel to do is to stop doing things which are illegal and/or they are obligated to do anyway, but refuse to do.

        • Shingo
          June 29, 2011, 5:54 pm

          And I am accused of not reading posts..

          That’s exactly what your posts is arguing

    • anonymouscomments
      June 29, 2011, 11:52 am

      I DARE you to get a brain, drop the hasbara, and realize that what you are asking for is a return to the fruitless peace “negotiations” where the palestinians have zero leverage. Also you unilaterally dismiss “1967″ borders as the basis. You know…. cause forget the issues from 1948, you are just happy to let Israel unilaterally expand and steal water resources. I DARE you to realize YOUR “ideas” simply lead to continual conflict, even if some characters are sitting at a table talking.

      I appreciate the fact that you point out things Israel should do… yet you do not realize Israel MUST do those things and more, yesterday. Once Israel reigns in the violent settlers, stops the regular bloody wars, and ENDS all settlement expansion, then the stateless Palestinians will regain their buried hopes, and sit at the unbalanced table (once again).

      Of course Israel would never do such…. so we have endless conflict, while they keep expanding. The focus should be on Israel, and in response to changes from Israel [the only state actor], the nature of the Palestinian side will change for the better quicker than I write this comment. But Israel will not change, partly due to people like you who keep demanding things from stateless hopeless divided occupied people, when ALL the focus should be on Israel. We are on the Jewish/”Western” side, and Israel is our collective monster. Don’t condescend and dictate everything the natives must do… they can take care of themselves as soon as Israel stops effing with them.

    • American
      June 29, 2011, 2:16 pm

      I don’t pretend to understand most of your thought processes but some thing are beyond dispute.

      Number One – If Palestines had not ‘violently’ resisted Israel’s land theft all of Palestine would now be Israel. That’s just a fact.

      Number Two – No one can negoatiate with Israel, Israel does not want ‘peace’, they want ‘conquest’, they want it all. That’s why they have played the ‘stall game’ for decades while they gobbled up more land.

      Number Three – Therefore any end to this has to be forced or imposed.

    • Shingo
      June 29, 2011, 5:52 pm

      I don’t think that Israel should permit the flotilla to reach Gaza.

      Why Witty? Weren’t you opposed to the siege on Gaza? Have you changed your mind again and now favor it?

      It does however need to clarify the status of Gaza, whether it is occupied or not.

      Israel and the UN both agree it is occupied, so what’s left to clarify?

      But, Hamas needs to proceed on its responsibilities to responsibly join and participate in the PA, negotiate with Israel and achieve recognition by the world and immediate neighbors, so that transit to Gaza can be normalized.

      What makes you think these are Hamas’ responsibilities?

      It can’t be without recognition and negotiation with Israel.

      What if, as Israel has always said, they would never negotiate with Hamas?

      The obstacles to Israel having to negotiate on the basis of 67 borders needs to be removed as the EU, Obama, UN, Arab League have been insisting

      This is the first time you’ve suggested the 1967 borders are an obstacle, even though it was Israel’s position until Likud came to power.

      Are you a Likudnik convert Witty?

      The difference between a forced Palestinian sovereignty and a negotiated one is the difference between a state of war and a state of peace.

      Why is that Witty?Because Israel is so irrational and volatile,that not getting it’s way 100% will cause Israel to start yet another war?

      Negotiations should be assertive, and Israel should cease settlement expansion as a prerequisite.

      And if they don’t…are you simply going to blame it on Hamas?

      Both likud and Hamas are the parties that need to change, not one, but both. The flotilla delays that.

      What was taking place prior to the flotilla that signaled Likud was about to change? Hamas signed a unity agreement with Fatah, so clearly all the right moves have come from Hamas.

      IDARE anyone here to declare that a state of war is a more progressive outcome for Palestinian civilians than a state of negotiated peace.

      I dare you to explain how anyone who is not completely deranged would believe that Israel can be negotiated with in light of the Palestine Papers and Susan Rice’s admission that any  ensure of Israel would lead to Israel behaving dearth rivet and irrationally.

    • libra
      June 29, 2011, 6:24 pm

      RW: “The obstacles to Israel having to negotiate on the basis of 67 borders needs to be removed as the EU, Obama, UN, Arab League have been insisting.”

      Richard, if Israel withdrew to its 67 borders, then it could very quickly make peace with the Palestinians and all its regional neighbours, thus securing the future of the “Jewish state”.

      What are these “obstacles to Israel” other than the Jewish settlements on land they have stolen? Are you advocating withdrawal from the settlements? Up to now, you have perversely described any such withdrawal as “ethnic cleansing”. Have you changed your position or is this another attempt to disguise hardcore land-grabbing Zionism by wrapping it in the wooly language of an oh so reasonable “liberal”.

      • Richard Witty
        June 29, 2011, 7:01 pm

        I’m advocating the same as I’ve always, that the 67 borders are the rational border definition (consented modifications are their reasonable).

        That both Israel and Palestine should endeavor to afford full and equal civil rights to all residents (letter of the law and application of the law).

        That displaced Palestinians from 48 and 67 have their day before a color-blind court, to determine current title status and restitution to perfect title status (from contested to consented).

        And, that current residents of settlements be afforded the choice to remain in Palestine as Palestinian citizens abiding by Palestinian law, or to return to Israel. Those that would remain would be obliged to similarly compensate for any needed perfection of title.

        To forcefully remove 500,000 that share an ethnicity, even if the stated reasoning is some other, is ethnic cleansing. Similar logic is applied to Palestinians. “You don’t have a building permit.” for example, when most Palestinians don’t is both legal and ethnic cleansing.

        • libra
          June 29, 2011, 7:52 pm

          RW: “That displaced Palestinians from 48 and 67 have their day before a color-blind court, to determine current title status and restitution to perfect title status (from contested to consented).”

          Richard, I suspect you’re the only person in the world who understands what this means. But whatever the details, it sounds an extremely complicated and lengthy process. I really don’t think this helps. What is needed in IP is simplification not further complication. In comparison, a single state would be far simpler to implement and with a much greater chance of long-term success.

          But to argue that the removal of illegal settlers from land they have stolen is ethnic cleansing because they share the same ethnicity is absurd. How can a group of people be excused an illegal action and the subsequent restitution to the victims of their crime just because they share an ethnicity? Really, if this is the best reason you can come up with against withdrawing to the 67 borders to secure the “Jewish state” then you neither seriously want nor deserve this ethnocentric entity.

        • Chaos4700
          June 29, 2011, 7:53 pm

          You’re lying. You’ve said over and over again that you want some of the settlements to say, so by definition you DO NOT support the 1967 borders.

          And you’ve also said you openly endorse what Israel is about to do to use military force against the flotilla. If Israel does kill any more Americans this time? I will quote this post at you EVERY SINGLE TIME you accuse anyone else of supporting or conducting terrorism.

        • RobertB
          June 29, 2011, 9:39 pm

          Richard Witty …said

          ” I’m advocating the same as I’ve always, that the 67 borders are the rational border definition (consented modifications are their reasonable).”

          ~~~~~~~~~~~

          RWitty…

          Where are Israel’s Internationally recognized borders ? Pre-June 1967 or what?

          Israel currently (pre-June 1967) has 80% of the original Palestine land.

          Israel occupies the rest of the 20% of Palestine’s land called the “Occupied territories”. As you know, Israel has built over 235 settlements & paved roads that are “for Jews only”. One must be Jewish to be able to live in those villas…that are paid for by the broke American taxpayers. Plus Israel has a total grip on water resources & hundreds of “humiliation” checkpoints/road blocks restricting/preventing Palestinians from reaching their schools, hospitals, relatives, farms…an oppressive brutal occupation indeed… But NO restrictions on Jews going to/from their settlements, swimming pools, parks…etc…

          With all the Israeli “for Jews only” settlements & roads..etc…this makes the “Occupied territories” 10% – 12% plus for Israel…with no plans to return. So what is going to be left for the Palestinians? 8%…10% ???

          How much more do the Palestinians have to lose/give up? They have already lost so much & they keep losing their land/resources, dignity, human rights… on a daily basis…right there in broad daylight & right from under their feet.

          @@@@@@@@

          Click on link & scroll down for details/information/graphs:

          Current Illegal Settlements on the Other’s Land

          Israel currently has 236 Jewish-only settlements and ‘outposts’ built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land. (View Sources & More Information)”

          link to ifamericansknew.org

        • Richard Witty
          June 30, 2011, 3:10 am

          The point remains that the only successful improvement in Palestinian objective or subjective status occurred by sober institution and relationship building.

          Consistently, the militant approach has pushed Palestinians steps and steps backward.

          There is no way to force Israel to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza (in the way that it is occupied) without normalization of relations, meaning to accept that Israel exist and permanently.

          Storming borders, shelling civilians, ranting at demonstrations even, flotillas, are vain. The oppossite is needed from dissent.

          In the absence of any prospect of peace, Israel does NEED defensible borders. In the presence of a sincere prospect of peace, Israel needs to rely primarily on good relations, and can.

          It is a continental divide. It is irrational for likud to unnecessarily provoke. And, it is irrational for dissent to unnecessarily provoke.

          Lets change the wheel, rather than go over and over and over the same circle.

        • Shingo
          June 30, 2011, 3:41 am

          The point remains that the only successful improvement in Palestinian objective or subjective status occurred by sober institution and relationship building.

          Based on what historical precedent Witty? The Palestinian objective or subjective status has consistently declined since 1967, regardless of what direction they took.

          Consistently, the militant approach has pushed Palestinians steps and steps backward.

          The Palestinians have been pushed back with or without a militant approach, so again, you’re theory falls apart under any scruitiny.

          You are right, that there is no way to force Israel to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza, nor is there any way to negotiate such a withdrawl. When Israel withdrew from Gaza, they did so uniltareally, not as a result of negotiations.

          Storming borders, shelling civilians, ranting at demonstrations even, flotillas, are vain. The oppossite is needed from dissent.

          Why Witty? So that Israel can carry on doing what they have been doing in peace?

          In the absence of any prospect of peace, Israel does NEED defensible borders.

          Nor does it need them now. The whole carnard about defensible borders is a ruse, seeing as there is no such thing as defensible borders.

          Lets change the wheel, rather than go over and over and over the same circle.

          Atta boy. Tell it like it is Witty. better wheels, rounder circles, better argument, more green yarn, and blue dots. before you know you, you’ll have yourself a time machine.

        • alec
          June 30, 2011, 5:31 am

          Here’s how it works Witty.

          The Palestinians and Europeans build institutions and do nation building.

          Then the IDF/IOF come and blow them up. Operation Cast Lead first targets: the police academy and UN schools.

          Yes, really, let’s change the wheel.

          On another topic, what should one call a lying liar?

        • Koshiro
          June 30, 2011, 6:43 am

          “To forcefully remove 500,000 that share an ethnicity, even if the stated reasoning is some other, is ethnic cleansing.”
          And killing 1400 people that share an ethnicity, even if the stated reasoning is some other, is genocide. Right?
          Similarly, every crime committed is a hate crime, because every victim has an ethnicity, correct?

        • RobertB
          June 30, 2011, 10:59 am

          Richard Witty …said

          “In the absence of any prospect of peace, Israel does NEED defensible borders. In the presence of a sincere prospect of peace, Israel needs to rely primarily on good relations, and can.”

          ~~~~~~~~~~~~

          RWitty… Hmmm…Inresting Indeed ! “Israel does NEED defensible borders”…Does a Palestinian state NEED defensible borders?

          As we all know Israel is armed to its teeth & much more. Its the ONLY country in the Middle-East that has large stockpiles/warehouses of undeclared Nuclear & Chemical weapons …and NO outside inspections of its WMD’s arsenals.

          If Israel were to withdraw to the pre-June 1967 borders, according to UN Resolution 242…which the US supported & voted for, and compensate the Palestinian refugees for their losses, there would be peace in the area similar to the Peace treaty with Egypt & Jordan.

          We all know that Israel does NOT want to withdraw from the “Occupied Territories” to the pre-June 1967 lines…if there is peace, then that $3-5 billion dollars that Israel receives annually from the American taxpayers …all in one lump sum…with no questions asked…might be cut or too risky to continue…

          Israel desires an on-going conflict so can it can continue to sell its zionist propaganda to the US/ Europe/world…that it needs defensible borders & preferably the post June 67 lines…and of course this ensures the non-stop aid $$$ coming in—NO risks on the table for a long time to come.

          When Israelis talks (hasbara) about the desire for peace, they mean peace with NO Palestinians existence…at all.

          Your beloved Israel has massacred thousands of Palestinians/Lebanese/Arabs and most of them unarmed civilians…and their hasbara has been Israel has a right to defend itself.

          Do the Palestinians/Lebanese have rights to defend themselves?

          To have a lasting peace in the ME…Israel needs to withdraw to the pre-June 1967 borders…according to UN Resolution 242 !!!

        • hophmi
          June 30, 2011, 12:34 pm

          “Does a Palestinian state NEED defensible borders?”

          Who does Palestine need to defend itself from? Not any of the Arab states. And Israel is always going to have a military advantage. And if it’s Israel Palestine wants to militarize itself against, well, that’s a good reason for Palestine to be demilitarized.

          Israel, on the other hand, has been threatened by its neighbors many times.

          “As we all know Israel is armed to its teeth & much more. Its the ONLY country in the Middle-East that has large stockpiles/warehouses of undeclared Nuclear & Chemical weapons …and NO outside inspections of its WMD’s arsenals.”

          True. And funnily enough, none of its neighbors seem to really fear it; they fear Iran much more. Ask yourself why that is.

          “We all know that Israel does NOT want to withdraw from the “Occupied Territories” to the pre-June 1967 lines…if there is peace, then that $3-5 billion dollars that Israel receives annually from the American taxpayers …all in one lump sum…with no questions asked…might be cut or too risky to continue…”

          Eh? I can pretty much assure you that if Israel signs a peace agreement, aid will likely increase, not decrease.

        • Hostage
          June 30, 2011, 3:46 pm

          Who does Palestine need to defend itself from?

          Wow! If you even have to ask that question you are a real knuckle-walking mouth breather.

          True. And funnily enough, none of its neighbors seem to really fear it

          The Palestinians do. They have repeatedly nixed the idea of Israelis being part of any peacekeeping force stationed on their territory. They have asked for a NATO force to keep Israel on its side of the border.

        • Woody Tanaka
          June 30, 2011, 4:00 pm

          “Who does Palestine need to defend itself from?”

          The fact that the pro-Zio side asks that question is proof enough that they should have any and every weapon necessary to defend themselves against the Israelis.

  13. Miura
    June 29, 2011, 10:33 am

    Excerpts from a Chomsky interview from around the time the “Peace Process” was in its early, nebulous stages:

    One good thing that has happened in Israel is that for the first time, a significant, authentic peace movement has developed. I don’t mean Peace Now, which is largely there in order to convince American liberals that they should continue to support Israel…As far as Peace Now goes, I met with their activists while I was there, and I read their literature. They refuse to take a position. They are extremely evasive. They say things vaguely like “Palestinians have rights.”…They say something, and then they retract it. But Peace Now does much worse. Their statements are much more evasive…Peace Now is a very establishment group. They say in private that they see their role as ensuring that American liberals and liberals in the American Jewish community don’t give up on Israel. I consider them very damaging. They are very harmful for the cause of peace. I have told them that many times.

  14. hophmi
    June 29, 2011, 12:44 pm

    Let me know when the Palestinians start a Peace Now.

    • GalenSword
      June 29, 2011, 1:15 pm

      Let me know when the Zionist government reconveys all the movable and immovable property that it stole to the rightful Palestinian owners, let me know when the Zionists restore all the destroyed Palestinian villages and districts, and let me know when the State of Israel repatriates the native Palestinian population that were ethnically cleansed by Zionist forces.

      Even better let me know when Zionist invaders and interlopers return to their native lands.

    • Shingo
      June 29, 2011, 5:32 pm

      Let me know when the Palestinians start a Peace Now.

      Let me know when the Palestinians massacre1,400 Israelis for no reason

      • hophmi
        June 30, 2011, 12:34 pm

        “Let me know when the Palestinians massacre1,400 Israelis for no reason”

        It’s already happened. It’s called suicide bombing.

        • Shingo
          June 30, 2011, 7:17 pm

          It’s already happened. It’s called suicide bombing.

          False on all counts.

          1. There was a reason
          2. The deaths were not the results of a single attack. hence not a massacre.

          0 out of 2. Thanks for playing.

    • Chaos4700
      June 29, 2011, 7:54 pm

      It would be pretty silly for Palestinians to start an organization that is exclusively Jewish in character.

    • Cliff
      June 30, 2011, 6:16 am

      Hophmi is pathetic. Whining as usual. Denying and/or trivializing the Nakba.

      You’re no different from a Holocaust denying freak.

      • hophmi
        June 30, 2011, 12:35 pm

        “Hophmi is pathetic. Whining as usual. Denying and/or trivializing the Nakba.

        You’re no different from a Holocaust denying freak.”

        This is your response to my question about why there’s no Palestinian Peace Now?

        What was it that our glorious moderator said about posters like me not responding to points raised by people like you?

        • tree
          June 30, 2011, 4:09 pm

          Oh come on. Peace Now’s primary accomplishment is keeping track of illegal Jewish Israeli settlement activity in the West Bank. Is there a need to keep track of illegal Palestinian settlement activity in Israel that the world at large is unaware of? Go ahead, enlighten us all about the poor Israeli Jews thrown out of their homes by Palestinians building large exclusive settlements on these poor Jew’s land.

          If its just the name that is significant to you, then I suppose you likewise find it significant that there was no “Peace Now” in the struggle against apartheid South African, or “Peace Now” in the Jim Crow US South, and, for that matter, no “Peace Now” in the Warsaw Ghetto. Your “arguments” are in fact pathetic.

  15. RobertB
    June 30, 2011, 6:36 pm

    hophmi …said…

    ” Who does Palestine need to defend itself from? Not any of the Arab states. And Israel is always going to have a military advantage. And if it’s Israel Palestine wants to militarize itself against, well, that’s a good reason for Palestine to be demilitarized. “

    So hophmi & his beloved Israel want to always have the right to invade an Arab country because Israel…”is always going to have a military advantage.”… and that is why they are occupying the Palestinians & continue to build & expand “for Jew only” settlements & roads…because Israel needs defensible borders…eh!!! Nice hasbara …sense!!!

    “Israel, on the other hand, has been threatened by its neighbors many times.”

    Israel has invaded several Arab countries many times & slaughtered tens of thousands civilians & caused traumatic destruction to cities, towns, villages, schools, hospitals, UN centers, food warehouses…and on and on…

    “True. And funnily enough, none of its neighbors seem to really fear it; they fear Iran much more. Ask yourself why that is.”

    Hmmm…how funny can you get!!! How many countries has Iran invaded in the last 60+ years…when compared to your beloved Apartheid Israel?

    Which country in the ME has several hundred undeclared nuclear weapons in its warehouses/stockpiles…and with NO outside inspections?

    Its NOT Iran…Its NOT Iraq…—Its Israel!!!

    ” Eh? I can pretty much assure you that if Israel signs a peace agreement, aid will likely increase, not decrease.

    Don’t bet on it…more & more Americans are waking up from their long slumber & are getting their eyes opened to AIPAC & Israel’s massive deceptions. Those hard earned US taxpayers dollars that go to Israel each year are needed right here in these USA. Those spineless politicians can be voted out & replaced with ones who are loyal to the US each & every time and NOT to a parasitic foreign country…like Israel.

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