Meanwhile, in Israel . . .

by on August 31, 2011 82
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About Adam Horowitz

Adam Horowitz is Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.
Posted in Israel/Palestine

{ 82 comments... read them below or add one }

  1. GuiltyFeat says:
    August 31, 2011 at 10:35 am

    I’m looking forward to the response this six week old non-story gets.

    @0:52 – Go Nadia!

    • Dex says:
      August 31, 2011 at 11:59 am

      Look everyone how this Zionist is laying the foundation to use the…drum roll…”anti-semitism” card.

      It’s a dirty little trick to bait people into making political comments about this story, which, of course, is interesting, if for anything, its lack of a Palestinian presence, so he/she can charge people with the you-know-what card!

      Israelis (or should I say American transplants) in the video pretending to be progressive is pretty funny though…

  2. Woody Tanaka says:
    August 31, 2011 at 10:49 am

    “I’m looking forward to the response this six week old non-story gets.”

    How about: Nothing mixes like hippie music and Zionist fascism!

    Or something.

    Zionism is racism.

    • GuiltyFeat says:
      August 31, 2011 at 11:36 am

      That was a classic “iceberg, Goldberg” response.

      Woody, sweetie, can you identify for me please the people in this video who were a) Zionists and b) fascists?

      Or do we all look alike to you?

      • Woody Tanaka says:
        August 31, 2011 at 11:50 am

        “That was a classic ‘iceberg, Goldberg’ response.”

        It was nothing of the sort. Who the hell do you think you are accusing other people of bigotry? Shame on your parents for raising you up so poorly or you for not listening if they did.

        It takes place in Jerusalem, right? That is the alleged capital of a Zionist fascist country. I did not say these particular hippies, musicians and children were either fascists or Zionists (but given the distinctly American accents among these people, I’d be hard-pressed to come up with any non-fantasy reason, other than that they are Zionists, for them to be so far from their homeland.)

        So learn how to read before accusing other people of anything.

        • GuiltyFeat says:
          August 31, 2011 at 12:02 pm

          As usual you’re just making an ass out of u and mption.

          I’m laughing at your sour response to being called a bigot when your post called everyone in the video, about whom, you know nothing, fascists.

          Woody, you are a bigot. Haven’t you got anything better to do than call people at a rock concert “fascists”? Silly nonsense.

        • Woody Tanaka says:
          August 31, 2011 at 1:24 pm

          Again, dummy, I didn’t call them fascists, I called their country fascist. Piss off.

      • Chaos4700 says:
        August 31, 2011 at 8:48 pm

        How many of them live in settlements on the West Bank?

  3. Bill in Maryland says:
    August 31, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Ersatz nostalgia for an event 40 years ago in a different country, so that Nadia @0:52 and her friends can put their consciences to sleep for a few hours to better enjoy life in their ersatz democracy.

  4. annie says:
    August 31, 2011 at 11:56 am

    lol. adam, you crack me up. how did you run into this video? i don’t know what to say, another day in the life i guess.

    • Adam Horowitz says:
      August 31, 2011 at 2:34 pm

      I should have said in the post itself, but it was sent out today over the Israeli government’s Twitter account – link to mobile.twitter.com. They highlight the quote “it’s, like, we’re leaving our troubles at the door.”

      • annie says:
        August 31, 2011 at 4:57 pm

        thanks adam, i didn’t originally realize it was a hasbara video for those of us on the outside produced by the goi. just checked their youtube page. another amusing feature of this event, notice the poster they display in the video? the date is j14!

        it seems while the hippie party was rocking out some people in tel aviv had something else in mind besides leaving their troubles at the door. i wonder how many people at that festival ended up joining the j14 protests.

  5. GuiltyFeat says:
    August 31, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    “another day in the life i guess”

    Finally, someone gets it. Thanks Annie. What’s up with all these other commenters today?

    • annie says:
      August 31, 2011 at 1:37 pm

      i don’t know. but we had several 40 year anniversaries celebrations of the summer of love here in the bay area and i went to one. lots of old hippies. of course we had the advantage of having many of the original musicians.

      one thing about israel that i really found disconcerting, i couldn’t quite get used to it….people are just going about their lives sunbathing on the beach, playing hackysac, lollying away as if they had not a care in the world. if you don’t bring up politics you wouldn’t know there was any.

      i think about this same thing here too. i will be in a crowd or shopping at the super market and i look around and think to myself “kids are getting slaughtered in the middle east right now because of us and we can just be hanging out having a grand ol time”. and that’s the way it is in israel too, it’s just so close with them. just on the other side of that wall.

      • RoHa says:
        September 1, 2011 at 1:19 am

        “lots of old hippies”

        Tautology?

        • annie says:
          September 1, 2011 at 2:11 am

          not really. obviously you don’t live in northern california. believe me, it’s got a growing youth movement where i live. berkeley, fairfax, bolinas, stinson, muir beach, pt reyes, olema, sebastapol, cotati, santa rosa, healsburg, stretching up thru all regions of sonoma and mendocino county albion, arcadia, humbolt garberville, willits and laytonville, my shasta , inland to chico, nevada city, grass valley, ashland and eugene oregon, olympia washington (rachel n cobain country) is a stronghold as well as all the olympic peninsula and on thru the san juans, friday harbor, vashon, bainbridge, all the way up into vancouver canada and beyond. once a hippie always a hippie. we rule these parts and the kids are not falling far from the trees. hippies kids dominate oregon country fair and make a serious dent @ burning man. they even have websites where you can buy gear. don’t be shy!

        • CigarGod says:
          September 1, 2011 at 10:03 am

          Annie, you hit me with some real homesick pangs.
          I’m missing another abalone season at Red Barn, Salt Point, etc.

          But, even here in my 1400 pop. Wyo. town…tie-dyes, dreads, artisan breads, farmers market, , and head shop…counter-culture abounds.

        • RoHa says:
          September 1, 2011 at 8:30 pm

          Wow! I’ll dig out my old flares, stick some flowers in my hair (what’s left of it) and start grooving again.

    • Mndwss says:
      August 31, 2011 at 1:41 pm

      -it’s such a perfect day, I’m glad I spent it with you.
      -you’re gonna reap just what you sow…

      Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

      Meanwhile over at the Freedom Theater your friends are sowing the seeds of your destruction. (People that are not chosen are not allowed to have any fun!!!!!)

      God will not be merciful to his chosen people for behaving like this.

      Maybe he will choose another people?

      The tables are turning… (With the help of BDS)

      • GuiltyFeat says:
        September 1, 2011 at 4:10 am

        “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

        Meanwhile over at the Freedom Theater your friends are sowing the seeds of your destruction. (People that are not chosen are not allowed to have any fun!!!!!)

        God will not be merciful to his chosen people for behaving like this.”

        How is this any less annoying and irrelevant that the settler god-botherers who claim the land was given to them thousands of years ago?

        This is just the flip side of a broken record. Find something else to beat Zionists up with other than “God’s not gonna like what you’ve done”.

        • Donald says:
          September 1, 2011 at 8:47 pm

          “Find something else to beat Zionists up with other than “God’s not gonna like what you’ve done”.”

          Why? Assuming you believe in God (for some reason I thought you were religious), do you think He’d like the settlers? Social justice is kind of a big theme in the Hebrew Bible.

        • GuiltyFeat says:
          September 2, 2011 at 2:05 am

          I do believe in God and I am a practicing orthodox Jew. But writing crap like this buys into the settler BS that God wants them there in the first place and that God has a clear idea of what he thinks the secular State of Israel should look like.

          I don’t think God gives a good god damn about any of that. My belief and worship are not bound by political entities and their squabbles over borders. If Israel becomes a Bahai country, I will still have a religious obligation to live here. The Torah, in my opinion, is not something most of the Israeli government concerns itself with, no matter what they tell you.

          Do I think God would like the settlers? Who cares? I don’t like the settlers and I’m the one voting, not Him.

        • CigarGod says:
          September 2, 2011 at 8:15 am

          That is an encouraging comment. But, the Torah contains some pretty settler like commands from God. I always like to test myself…would I start building an alter if I heard a voice?

  6. jonah says:
    August 31, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    I love this. Mondo should show some more videos about normal people 0f all colors and backgrounds living in the Jewish state. This could scratch the surface of ideological hatred and deep prejudice that dominates the anti-Zionist discourse toward everything that smells of Israel. We need to build bridges, not digging ditches.

  7. Michael W. says:
    August 31, 2011 at 4:07 pm

    Kraft Stadium? Kraft, as in the owner of the New England Patriots? I guess no one here is a Pats fan anymore.

  8. jonah says:
    August 31, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    If the situation is so desperate for arabs living in Israel’s “apartheid”, as you want me to believe, then you need to explain why the Arabs of East Jerusalem and neighborhoods still prefer to live under Israeli rule than in any other “free” Arab country, including a Palestinian state, if they had the choice to decide.

    link to ynetnews.com

    link to pechterpolls.com

    • john h says:
      August 31, 2011 at 8:37 pm

      I’ll spell it out for you. Read this slowly, with understanding.

      IT IS THE LAND OF THEIR FOREFATHERS.

      link to sanity.comprehendo

    • annie says:
      September 1, 2011 at 12:38 am

      it is their homeland jonah. you recognize the significance of that don’t you?

    • Sumud says:
      September 1, 2011 at 1:05 am

      …then you need to explain why the Arabs of East Jerusalem and neighborhoods still prefer to live under Israeli rule than in any other “free” Arab country, including a Palestinian state, if they had the choice to decide.

      It is the noble concept of sumud, which I chose as my MW handle as a gesture of solidarity with Palestinians:

      Sumud (Arabic: صمود‎) meaning “steadfastness” or “steadfast perseverance” is an ideological theme and political strategy that first emerged among the Palestinian people through the experience of the dialectic of oppression and resistance in the wake of the 1967 war. Those who are steadfast, that is those who exhibit sumud, are referred to as samidin, the singular forms of which are samid (m.) and samida (f.).

      With the passing of the years since 1967, Palestinians have distinguished between two main forms of sumud. The first, static sumud, is more passive and is defined by Ibrahim Dhahak as the “maintenance of Palestinians on their land.” The second, resistance sumud (in Arabic, sumud muqawim) is a more dynamic ideology whose aim is to seek ways of building alternative institutions so as to resist and undermine the occupation.

      You better learn about this jonah and quick fast.

      The struggle for civil rights in South Africa gave the world the word ‘apartheid’, and the same struggle in Palestine gives us ‘sumud’; it completes the circle by going beyond the acts of the oppressor to the steadfast resistance of the oppressed.

      I want this word and it’s noble meaning to become known the world over.

      • john h says:
        September 1, 2011 at 6:01 am

        That is really something special, Samud. It reminded me of a quote I posted here yesterday, which tells us, I suggest, its source and why it won’t stop and will be successful:

        “The Israeli army will lose. The settlers will lose. Israel will lose. On the road to that loss they will wound and displace countless Palestinians, but at the end they will lose. And they will lose because they do not understand what they are contending with, despite the fact that it is in plain view, before their very eyes.

        Sometimes you need a tremendous, superhuman effort to see that there is a human being before you. And then you need another effort, no smaller than the first, to see that what you ask him to relinquish – in contrast to what you must relinquish – is the recognition of his own value as a human being. And that, he will not relinquish.”(+972, Idan Landau, April 19)

        • Sumud says:
          September 1, 2011 at 11:02 pm

          That is really something special, Samud.

          It is :-)

          Great quote from +972, thanks.

          I link to here to some Ynet articles on the spine-chilling mindset of many Israeli youths with regards to Palestinians.

          It will take a superhuman effort to change the opinions of these people. I hate to say it but that may not happen before one or more mass killings of Palestinians occur. Again, I *hate* to say that, but I think we must look pragmatically at the direction Israel is heading in. I don’t think attempts at genocide can be ruled out.

          Human rights crimes perpetrated by Israel are so widely documented I will NEVER accept the excuse “we didn’t know what was happening”.

          You might also find this interview with ex-Israeli psychotherapist Avigail Abarbanel interesting. She assesses Israel as though it were one of her patients, and worries that because of the mindset of many Israelis, she can’t conclusively rule out that mass killings of Palestinians (and others) by Israelis may occur.

        • Shingo says:
          September 1, 2011 at 11:10 pm

          That podcast is excellent Sumud. I’ve listened to it a number of times and it explains a great deal about why even the most empathetic of Zionists are still racist to the core.

    • pjdude says:
      September 1, 2011 at 1:13 am

      they don’t its just a lie people like you love to repeat. just because Israel illegally annexed where they live doesn’t mean they like living there more. their is a major cost to moving and its not something people do lightly. I bet you if you asked those people if they would rather live in the illegal state of Israel or have their homes be in a palestinian state that controls all of what is legally palestine they would say palestine in a heart beat.

    • thankgodimatheist says:
      September 1, 2011 at 6:46 am

      “you need to explain why the Arabs of East Jerusalem and neighborhoods still prefer to live under Israeli rule than in any other “free” Arab country, including a Palestinian state, if they had the choice to decide.”

      Because it’s simply their home. Their fathers’ and mothers’ and ancestors’ and that goes back to more than 3000 years.

    • jonah says:
      September 1, 2011 at 7:47 am

      “IT IS THE LAND OF THEIR FOREFATHERS.”

      My dear G-d, buddies, not so emotional and a bit more accurate please: It’s NOT about the piece of land on that these Palestinians are now living and hopefully will continue to live in the future – it’s about the choice of their citizenship, the Israeli or the Palestinian. The majority would prefer to keep their Israeli ID.

      link to mepeace.org

      Sorry, try it again, but this time cum grano salis.

      • Shingo says:
        September 1, 2011 at 9:03 am

        The majority would prefer to keep their Israeli ID.

        And the 25,000 Jews in Iran woudl prefer to keep their Iranian ID than move to Israel, even afer being offered a $50,000 bribe. Has is crossed your Ziofastist mind that perphaps people simply want to remain where they feel their home is?

        • jonah says:
          September 1, 2011 at 10:18 am

          So, according to your own logic, the Palestinians of East Jerusalem want to keep their Israeli ID because they feel that there is their home. Has it crossed your Islamofastist mind that perhaps many Palestinian people simply prefer to remain in the Israeli Jewish “Apartheid” rather than live in a “democratic” Arab-Palestinian state?

        • Sumud says:
          September 1, 2011 at 10:43 am

          Has it crossed your Islamofastist mind…

          Maybe you’d be more at home on Pamela Geller’s blog jonah?

          I don’t actually recall Shingo ever disclosing his religion, agnosticism, or atheism.

          …that perhaps many Palestinian people simply prefer to remain in the Israeli Jewish “Apartheid” rather than live in a “democratic” Arab-Palestinian state?

          See below. The key point is that what Israel envisions is NOT a democratic Arab-Palestinian state but, at best, Gaza conditions for the whole of the West Bank: bantustans, with no water resources. ‘State-minus’ is the (generous) euphemism.

        • Shingo says:
          September 1, 2011 at 5:44 pm

          Palestinian people simply prefer to remain in the Israeli Jewish “Apartheid” rather than live in a “democratic” Arab-Palestinian state?

          So Jonah, I take it you believe the Iranian Jews would rather live under anIslamofascist, anti Semitic dictatorship than a “democratic” Jewish state?

        • jonah says:
          September 1, 2011 at 6:49 pm

          There is a fundamental difference between Iranian Jews and Palestinians. The former feel to be part of the Iranian nation, although they face discrimination, the latter don’t see themselves as part of the State of Israel. Or maybe yes, despite all anti-Israeli rhetoric?

        • Shingo says:
          September 1, 2011 at 8:59 pm

          The former feel to be part of the Iranian nation, although they face discrimination, the latter don’t see themselves as part of the State of Israel.

          You’re talking garbage Jonah.

          Your argument is irrelevant. Persia became Iran 13 years before Israel was carved out of Palestine, so the Jews in Iran are not wedded to the state entity.

          We’re comparing the merits of each political system and society. The Israeli Palestinians regard the territory as their home, regardless of what state entity is in power.

        • jonah says:
          September 2, 2011 at 10:13 am

          Denying the evidence is your task, Shingo. It’s not about land on which they live, it’s about the choice of which citizenship on that very land.

        • Shingo says:
          September 2, 2011 at 10:24 am

          Rubbish Jonah,

          Even the poll you cited make no such claims. The reason given by Palestinians for wantign to remain in Israel is freedom of movement, not political affiliation or nationalism.

          Similarly, the reason given by Iranian Jews for remaining in Iran is that Iran is their home, not because of any allegiance to the government of Iran.

      • justicewillprevail says:
        September 1, 2011 at 9:24 am

        You don’t get it, do you? An old and jaded hasbara talking point which ignores the issues of citizenship, identity and nationality and occupation – not something you would expect a teenage hasbarist to understand.

      • annie says:
        September 1, 2011 at 10:09 am

        It’s NOT about the piece of land

        uhuh. would that be true for jewish israelis too? that it’s not about the land?

        this should be interesting. and hey lil buddie, not so emotional.

      • Sumud says:
        September 1, 2011 at 10:17 am

        My dear G-d, buddies, not so emotional and a bit more accurate please: It’s NOT about the piece of land on that these Palestinians are now living and hopefully will continue to live in the future – it’s about the choice of their citizenship, the Israeli or the Palestinian. The majority would prefer to keep their Israeli ID.

        What are you actually trying to prove with your sound-bite quote of that poll jonah?

        The answer to your question is contained in the very article you quote:

        When asked to provide the top reasons they chose one citizenship over the other, those who chose Israeli citizenship stressed freedom of movement in Israel, higher income, better job opportunities and Israeli health insurance.

        No-one is arguing that Palestinian Israelis are not better off than Palestinians enduring a belligerent military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza.

        What is missing from that poll is any sort of qualification about what shape a theoretical Palestinian state might take. Evidently Palestinians believe that any Palestinian state that Israel permits to come into existence will be severely limited – and with the kind of controls Israel wishes to exert over any Palestinian state who can blame them?

        Example: as well as keeping nearly all of the land over the West Bank aquifers, Netanyahu wants Israel to control a Palestinian state’s borders, sea and airspace, even electromagnetic spectrum – basically this would amount to an imposition Gaza-like conditions on the whole of the West Bank, and Netanyahu is documented in a Wikileaks US Embassy cable boasting that Livni basically agrees with him on this.

        With that in mind, if I were Palestinian and responding to that poll I’d also choose Israeli citizenship. However, if the question was qualified with an outline of a truly independent Palestinian state in full control of borders, sea and airspace etc. then that would definitely change my mind.

        That is your grain of salt.

        I also will assert again the important of sumud. It may seem melodramatic and emotional to you that Palestinians have a significant attachment to their land – but you don’t seem capable of thinking about Palestinians as human beings, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

        • jonah says:
          September 1, 2011 at 12:04 pm

          Sumud -

          “Evidently Palestinians believe that any Palestinian state that Israel permits to come into existence will be severely limited”

          You have a fervent fantasy with regard to Israel’s all-present evil control, but there is no evidence that a future Palestinian state will be “severely limited”. Or maybe you can give me the source of your informations. Natanyahu asks that the Palestinian state should be demilitarized to avoid the risk that it could become a lauching pad for Iranian Grad and Qassam rockets as Gaza is today.

          Fact is that Ramallah is booming even today under Israel “occupation”, so why it shouldn’t in a future indipendent Palestinian state? Israel is a democracy that offers its citizens a range of services, including free, as well as civil rights, while the Palestinian state might be a failed state – because of political divisions, corruption, lack of a peaceful intent toward Israel, therefore political violence despite the establishment of a indipendent state. No coincidence that the opinion poll survey shows that 41% of respondents believe that the armed struggle against Israel would continue even when Jerusalem was divided between Israel and Palestine.
          link to pechterpolls.com (page 31)

          I don’t deny the Palestinian attachment to the land, as strong as the Jewish, but the real question is if the this attachment is also supported by proper political objectives which agree with the fundamentals of compromise, peace and security.

        • Sumud says:
          September 1, 2011 at 1:39 pm

          You have a fervent fantasy with regard to Israel’s all-present evil control, but there is no evidence that a future Palestinian state will be “severely limited”. Or maybe you can give me the source of your informations.

          You should know by now I do not fabricate or fantasise.

          Here is the link to the US Embassy cable describing Netanyahu’s desired Palestinian “state”, and Livni’s agreement, and here is the exact text for your edification:

          Netanyahu said his government is reviewing Israel’s
          policy toward the Palestinians. There is a consensus in the
          government and among 80% of the Israeli public that the
          Palestinians should be able to govern themselves. The only
          limits on Palestinian sovereignty would be elements that
          affect Israel’s security. A Palestinian state must be
          demilitarized, without control over its air space and
          electro-magnetic field, and without the power to enter into
          treaties or control its borders. Netanyahu concluded that he
          and opposition leader Tzipi Livni “only disagree about the
          name,” i.e. the two-state solution.

          As I said, such a Palestinian “state” would represent the imposition of Gaza-like conditions on the West Bank, though probably trade would be somewhat less restricted – but without control of their borders Palestinians would exercise no control over that.

          FYI, I thought “severely limited” would be understood as an understatement. I should have written “totally fucked” I suppose.

        • Shingo says:
          September 1, 2011 at 5:09 pm

          You have a fervent fantasy with regard to Israel’s all-present evil control, but there is no evidence that a future Palestinian state will be “severely limited”. Or maybe you can give me the source of your informations.

          You have a fervent capacity for denial.

           It’s not as if Israel have not already provided an ample demonstration of how they would treat a Palestinian state.

          Just look at Gaza.

        • jonah says:
          September 1, 2011 at 6:33 pm

          “Just look at Gaza”

          Gaza isn’t a friendly entity to Israel. Even the UN has finally admitted it.
          link to jpost.com

        • jonah says:
          September 1, 2011 at 6:36 pm

          “Here is the link to the US Embassy cable describing Netanyahu’s desired Palestinian “state””

          A cable isn’t the result of final status agreements. It’s rumor.

        • Cliff says:
          September 1, 2011 at 6:56 pm

          A cable is not a rumor. You are not a credible person to discuss this issue with.

          You deny the Palestinian experience in the OT, by saying no testimony is valid. You deny all the NGOs and all the eye-witness testimonies that paint Israel in a bad light.

          And similarly, you characterize these cables as ‘rumors’ but really you mean, ‘they are irrelevant or probably lies.’

        • Shingo says:
          September 1, 2011 at 7:03 pm

          Gaza isn’t a friendly entity to Israel. Even the UN has finally admitted it.

          Rubbish. Israel officially designated Gaza an “enemy entity” after it had privately confided to the United States government that it would be “happy” if Hamas took over because the IDF could then deal with Gaza as a hostile state.

          link to wikileaks.ch

          The UN Report is obviously a whitewash, seeing as Israel’s own internal documents show that the blockade has nothing to do with security concerns.

          link to mcclatchydc.com

          There is no obligation for any entity to be friendly to Israel.

        • Shingo says:
          September 1, 2011 at 7:04 pm

          A cable isn’t the result of final status agreements. It’s rumor.

          The violation of the Road Map by Netanyahu reveals that Netanyahu has no respect for any final status agreements.

        • Chaos4700 says:
          September 1, 2011 at 7:08 pm

          Wow, the Gazans are pissed at Israel for taking the bread from their tables, turning their region into one big concentration camp and slaughtering their children wholesale. Fancy that, jonah.

          Oh, I’m sorry. Did my condemning your war crimes make me an “Islamofascist?”

        • Sumud says:
          September 2, 2011 at 3:25 am

          A cable isn’t the result of final status agreements. It’s rumor.

          That’s a bit desperate isn’t it jonah?

          The cable documented a meeting between Republican Senator Jon Kyl, US Ambassador to Israel James Cunningham, and Netanyahu.

          That’s hardly rumour is it? Who are you accusing of lying?

          Do you think Netanyahu is secretly gagging to end the Israeli occupation and finally let the Palestinians alone to build up a truly independent state of their own? Hmm, that just doesn’t seem plausible.

          Maybe you think the yanks were lying, but why would they?

          You asked me to provide a source and I have. You dismiss the content of the cable – so maybe it’s time for you to provide a source proving otherwise; that the Palestinian state (as envisioned by Israel) will not be “severely limited”.

        • jonah says:
          September 2, 2011 at 11:38 am

          Cables are records of momentary circumstances and decisions, not necessary political platforms. As long as the Palestinians and behind them the Arab world (including the IRI) are at war with Israel, Israel is obliged to take appropriate countermeasures to protect its citizens against current and future threats. This is a logical reflection of the current situation.
          Thus, the vision of a demilitarized Palestinian state placed under Israeli electronic surveillance is the result of a state of war and expressês the need for Israel to secure its borders. However, a genuine peace process, based on genuine mutual recognition in principles, could soften this position and military cooperation could be a valid alternative.

          Those who blindly believe in wikileaks and other whistleblowers , taking their information as gospel, resemble a child that looks inside the magician’s magic box, thinking he had discovered the truth of things.

          What matters are direct peace negotiations on the political stage, not the many whispering voices behind the scenes.

        • annie says:
          September 2, 2011 at 11:45 am

          oh goody, ‘direct peace negotiations on the political stage’ and israel might “soften” the position of “a demilitarized Palestinian state placed under Israeli electronic surveillance“.

          i’m so excited by these prospects. sovereignty here we come!

        • Woody Tanaka says:
          September 2, 2011 at 12:51 pm

          ‘As long as the Palestinians and behind them the Arab world (including the IRI) are at war with Israel”

          Because nothin’ spells the Arab world being at war with israel quite like a peace deal ready and waiting, on the table, for Israel to pick it up… (And one would have to be a political moron to suggest that the Arab world was at war with Israel when two of the the biggest Arab states, including the biggest) is at peace. Sounds like of paranoid to me.

          “What matters are direct peace negotiations on the political stage”
          Yeah, because we’ve seen how effective they’ve been for the last few decades. (“What?” the Israeli lebensraumer says, “It’s been REALLY effective for me…”)

        • jonah says:
          September 2, 2011 at 2:10 pm

          Well, then wait for the white rabbit from the magician’s magic hat ….

        • annie says:
          September 2, 2011 at 2:15 pm

          the white rabbi? the white rabbit is israel’s “soften” position.

          no thanks.

        • Shingo says:
          September 2, 2011 at 5:03 pm

          This is a logical reflection of the current situation.
          Thus, the vision of a demilitarized Palestinian state placed under Israeli electronic surveillance is the result of a state of war and expressês the need for Israel to secure its borders.

          Tbhis is laughable of course, seeing as Israel is not securin it’s borders (which it refues to decalre anyway), but the occupation.

          However, a genuine peace process, based on genuine mutual recognition in principles, could soften this position and military cooperation could be a valid alternative.

          Provably false. The PLO has recognized Israel decades ago. When has Israel offered to recognize a palestinian state?

          Those who blindly believe in wikileaks and other whistleblowers , taking their information as gospel, resemble a child that looks inside the magician’s magic box, thinking he had discovered the truth of things.

          While those who take the words of Neetnyahu in public at face value are the mature and secnsible adults rights?

          What matters are direct peace negotiations on the political stage, not the many whispering voices behind the scenes.

          What matters Jonah, is that both sides stick to agreements they have signed, and Israel refuses to. Negotiations lead to agreements. What good are negotiations when Israel can’t be trusted to respect the agreements?

        • Sumud says:
          September 3, 2011 at 3:10 am

          Thus, the vision of a demilitarized Palestinian state placed under Israeli electronic surveillance is the result of a state of war and expressês the need for Israel to secure its borders.

          I have no problem with Israel securing it’s borders – it is Israel expecting to be able to control Palestine’s borders that I object to.

          However, a genuine peace process, based on genuine mutual recognition in principles, could soften this position and military cooperation could be a valid alternative.

          Arab Peace Initiative, on offer for nearly ten years now, and fully endorsed by every country in the OIC, including Iran.

          Those who blindly believe in wikileaks and other whistleblowers , taking their information as gospel, resemble a child that looks inside the magician’s magic box, thinking he had discovered the truth of things.

          I agree.

          I don’t blindly believe in all Wikileak’s leaks, but I think given their origin and purpose, there’s a very strong chance that the content of the US Embassy cables are accurate.

          Again, if you don’t believe that the description of Netanyahu’s thinking is accurate, who are you calling liars, him or the US diplomats? Netanyahu has long been hostile to the idea of an independent and sovereign Palestinian state. The content of the cable correlates with that.

          And now – I’ll repeat myself, and please actually respond this time:

          You asked me to provide a source and I have. You dismiss the content of the cable – so maybe it’s time for you to provide a source proving otherwise; that the Palestinian state (as envisioned by Israel) will not be “severely limited”.

      • Sumud says:
        September 1, 2011 at 10:50 am

        Sorry, try it again, but this time cum grano salis.

        I suspect you’re actually a little jealous jonah, that people find the concept and authenticity of sumud more appealing that Israel’s contribution to the debate: hasbara.

        Cynicism is not an attractive trait, it’s intellectually lazy and a cop-out. Sure, you need to be smart to partake, but it’s a dead-end street.

  9. Richard Witty says:
    August 31, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Anybody know the narrator? Its Harvey Stein, who posts here periodically.

  10. piotr says:
    August 31, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    jonah, not a novel idea, “hasbara comment no. 43″, but exactly because of that, it should be addressed. It may surprise some Americans, but actually most people in the world prefer to live where they were born, where they have siblings and friends. Actually, most Blacks in South Africa did not want to move away either…

  11. Sumud says:
    September 1, 2011 at 10:52 am

    A perfect metaphor.

    Fake Woodstock in a fake (astroturf) stadium, attended by fake Middle Easterners.

    No wonder it is pitched by the GOI as an escapist event.