Uri Avnery has written one of the most chilling articles I have ever read, titled "Dogs of War." It is about the dimensions of potential violence looming after the UN vote in what Israel has dubbed "Operation Summer Seeds". Avnery fears this will kick off a third intifada and I am afraid those fears are not unwarranted. He reports the media is psyching up Israeli society. "All our TV stations have reported on them at length and lauded their effectiveness and ardor." By them he means the Dogs of war.
Citing the defense establishment document about the operation acquired by Haaretz Avnery sounds the alarm:
This week it announced that it is training the settlers, too, and telling them exactly when they are allowed to shoot to kill. Thus it confirms what we all know: that there is no clear distinction between the army and the settlers – many settlers are officers in the army, and many officers live in settlements. “The army defends all Israelis, wherever they are,” is the official line.
One of the scenarios the army is preparing for, it was stated, is for Palestinians shooting at soldiers and settlers “from inside the mass demonstrations”. That is an ominous statement. I have been at hundreds of demonstrations and never witnessed anyone shooting “from inside the demonstration”. Such a person would have to be insanely irresponsible, since he would expose all the people around him to deadly retaliation. But it is a handy pretext for shooting at non-violent protesters.
It sounds so ominous, because it has happened already in the past. After the first intifada, which was considered a Palestinian success story (and brought about the Oslo agreement), our army diligently prepared for the second one. The chosen instruments were sharpshooters.
I am afraid that the preparations for the third intifada, which is anticipated to start next month, are proceeding on the same lines.............
THE SETTLERS and their dogs loom large in the upcoming scenarios.
That is quite logical, since the settlers now play a pivotal role in the conflict. It is they who prevent any peace agreement, or even meaningful peace negotiations.
Unlike the iconic photo above I fear the settler dogs will be unleashed and the leadership in Israel will not be fuming about them either. I recommend the entire article.
The settlers are unlawful enemy combatants now, and they should be treated as such.
And for the record? I’m not Israeli, so I view the settler’s children as civilian hostages being held by their abusive, militant parents, NOT as viable military targets.
These small settler boys are being trained to shoot Palestinian kids. I think the UN has a few things to say about child soldiers.
link to imemc.org
The large dad squashing a kid looks awfully like settler attack dog man.
i’m sure they don’t see it as being like child soldiers in africa. more like american settlers in the wild west, where boys become man of the house when dad is out getting food or cash for his crops and cattle. you never know when wild savages will invade the home, raping and stealing and scalping.
That might be the image they flog to the US and the rest of the west with the terminology, but the fact is they’re teaching their kids to murder, and if it happens they’ll be forever deeply damaged. And someone else will be either dead or maimed.
Indeed, with the IDF openly arming them, they are all either enemy combatants or terrorists and thus, all legitimate targets.
I don’t buy Averny’s concern. I know he is well-intentioned, but his position on the conflict has become outdated. Violence is nothing new to Palestinians; they have endured it on all three levels — direct, structural, and cultural — for over six decades, and have demonstrated that no amount of Israeli punishment can break their will.
Palestinians have proven themselves to be able to live with, even prosper in many respects, in spite of Israel’s massive iframework of violence. The question is, if it gets to that point, can Israelis handle the violence that comes their way? The second intifada proves they cannot, that fear, not pragmatism, motivates their (re)actions.
In my opinion, the third intifada will be the the turning point in the history of the conflict. The foundation for a massive Palestinian non-violent movement has been laid (though Palestinians practice non-violence every single day). When the world sees this, much like the first intifada, they will mobilize in favor of the Palestinians, and there is nothing Israel or the US can do about it this time. There will be no compromise on Palestinians’ aspiration for justice; no empty promises of getting back to the so-called peace process. Once the conflict shifts to a civil rights struggle, which it already has, there will be no turning back.
The question is: how long will the governments of the world sit and watch before forcibly stopping Israel from what we all know it is planning to do…
can Israelis handle the violence that comes their way?
i think the appropriate question to ask is if israel can handle the non violence that comes their way.
Annie,
Israelis, in different respects, can neither handle the violence nor the non-violence that comes their way. Israeli Jewish citizens (within Israel-proper) certainly cannot handle violence. Data demonstrates that their support of repressive measures taken by their government correlates with the direct violence they experience. So when incidents of suicide bombings rose during the 2nd intifada, for example, Israelis began to support oppressive, brutal, and racist measure by their government (e.g. the apartheid wall) in greater numbers.
The Israeli government cannot handle non-violence; it is a public relations disaster. Just look at the lingering affects of the Flotilla incident. The government understands this reality and knows it can only “spin” facts for so long before world opinion begins to affect the official policies of Western powers. This is precisely why Israel has taken a strategy that intends to provoke Palestinians, like arming and training settlers. As you know, Israel (the government) much prefers violent resistance to non-violent resistance because it helps advance it policies/agenda/narrative.
I firmly belive the 3rd intifada will take on a largely massive non-violent character, which means the pressure on Israel will likely come from outside. However, if Israeli provocations turn out to be too much, and Palestinians decide to respond violently inside Israel-proper, I think Jewish-Israelis will finally break from their traditional mode of thinking and begin to pressure their own government for change (at least I hope this to be the case).
Either way, I think Israel is in for a rude awakening.
thanks for your response dex, i agree i think israel is in for a rude awakening.
this implies repressive measures, oppressive, brutal, and racist during the 2nd intifada were a response to palestinian violence.
” So when incidents of suicide bombings rose during the 2nd intifada, for example, Israelis began to support oppressive, brutal, and racist measure by their government (e.g. the apartheid wall)”
Imagine that! Israelis refusing to have themselves blown up by homicide bombers in pizzerias, markets, buses, restaurants, universities, Passover dinners, and basically anywhere, ask their government to build a wall to keep the terrorists out and it works. Contrast this with the US that reacted to a terror incident by invading 2 countries and fighting there for over 10 years. Cost is thousands of civilians, US and allied soldiers, Abu Ghraib etc. Fix your own country first.
“So when incidents of suicide bombings rose during the 2nd intifada, for example, Israelis began to support oppressive, brutal, and racist measure by their government (e.g. the apartheid wall)”
” Israelis refusing to have themselves blown up by homicide bombers in pizzerias, markets, buses, restaurants, universities,”
The original quote was misleading, in that Israelis were using brutal measures before the suicide bombing started.
The original quote was misleading, in that Israelis were using brutal measures before the suicide bombing started.
thank you donald, that is what i meant when i said “this implies repressive measures, oppressive, brutal, and racist during the 2nd intifada were a response to palestinian violence” . obviously “oppressive, brutal, and racist measures” were happening decades before suicide bombings.
Imagine that ! Israelis refusing to blow out entire neighborhoods; Israelis refusing the shelling of white phosphorous bombs, Israelis refusing to build wall on somebody else’s land, to destroy houses on another country’s soil, to build roads abroad for Jews only, to man checkpoints in an occupied country, to protect racist thugs (aka settlers).
Image LLI … Just imagine for a sec … Israelis refusing to take part in target assassinations (I mean murder), refusing to destroy, raze bedouin villages … No Imagine LLI … Imagine, can you just “imagine that” ? Israelis refusing to shoot innocent people harvesting along the border in Gaza ? Israelis refusing to arrest Palestinian children in the middle of the night ? Israelis refusing to use clusters bombs in civilian areas, Israelis refusing to let a few hundred fanatics destroy the old city of Al-Khalil, refusing to steal land and kill and destroy on such a scale … Oh and just imagine …
Imagine Israelis fixing their country …
Donald and Annie,
You are both, obviously, correct. Brutal, oppressive and racist measures by Israel were in place well before the 2nd intifada; that goes without saying, but I guess for Zionists indocrinated with fairytales and myths like this “longliveIsrael” person, it must be stated
But the quote is accurate, in that, Israelis tend to support their governments miserable policies to a greater degree when they, themselves, feel the impact of the conflict.
The key to the quote was “….in greater numbers”
It always amazed me how Israelis can be so geographically close to the conflict, but, at the same time, be so disconnected from it.
Careful, these ideas are dangerous.
Wow, total arrogance. Build a wall – with my child’s money. Arik, Barak and Bibi wrote op-eds in OUR newspapers during the run up to the Iraq war pushing hard for us to depose Saddam. YOUR current prime minister lies to us telling us Saddam is going to send people here with suitcase nukes to blow us up. AIPAC cheerleaders lobbied our politicians to vote for the resolution.
Hey, if you’re unhappy with America’s moral direction, why not stop accepting the welfare checks? Yeah, didn’t think so.
Too bad you all can’t survive without your (Christian) U.S. mom and dad, and us American Jews.
longliveisrael
“Imagine that! Israelis refusing to have themselves blown up ”
Uh? Israel built a wall OUTSIDE of Israel on even MORE Palestinian territory. Tell me why wouldn’t the wall work on Israeli soil?
I don’t buy Averny’s concern. I know he is well-intentioned, but his position on the conflict has become outdated.
did you open the operation summer seeds link? how is this ‘outdated’? it was published last week and cites an official document. and do you think avnery is inaccurate when he says “All our TV stations have reported on them at length”? have you read the whole article?
Violence is nothing new to Palestinians; they have endured it on all three levels — direct, structural, and cultural — for over six decades, and have demonstrated that no amount of Israeli punishment can break their will.
what does this mean that violence is “nothing new”. do you mean to suggest loosing loved ones and being massacred and clawed by dogs is something one could get used to? i agree it will not break their will but i don’t think people get accustomed to enduring violence.
“When the world sees this, much like the first intifada, they will mobilize in favor of the Palestinians, ”
I’m a little more cynical. I think the world, such as they mobilize, is already mobilized in favor of the Palestinians. It’s mainly the western powers who are not, and as such Israel propaganda is aimed at westerners.
There are of course cracks being opened, people being made aware. I just wish there weren’t so many of us who’s racism is open to being exploited.
not could, will lead to unspeakable violence … because that’s all that israel knows how to do … the world will be aghast at the overreaction, the cruelty, the mass-scale of the crackdown … israel will be right up there with Assad’s Syria … we know it’s coming
That is an ominous statement. I have been at hundreds of demonstrations and never witnessed anyone shooting “from inside the demonstration”. Such a person would have to be insanely irresponsible, since he would expose all the people around him to deadly retaliation.
And therein lies the false flag operation that could ignite all this.
“shooting “from inside the demonstration”. Such a person would have to be insanely irresponsible, since he would expose all the people around him to deadly retaliation.”
This tactic, along with sniper fire from “outside” has been widely used by insurgents in Libya, Syria and Iran. It is the simplest and most effective method by which an insurgency can be created by a minority.
Where it is used it is almost certain that the insurgency is being fostered by the West as the reward is headlines in the Western press, justifying “regime change.”
‘One of the scenarios the army is preparing for, it was stated, is for Palestinians shooting at soldiers and settlers “from inside the mass demonstrations”.’
That’s it, MRW. We are going to see “shooting from inside the demonstration”, and even when we don’t, the IDF will assure us that it happened.
Dogs of war and the hounds of hell
Together… they don’t go so well
The world should unite and tell the palestinians:
“Who so ever… touches one hair on yon grey head…dies like a dog.
March on!!!” – SAHB
Or maybe just unite and make laws and an organization that can enforce the laws.
An organization that is very much NOT like the UN.
” Settlers are people like us.”
The sad reality is there is no difference between the settlers and ordinary Israelis. They all live in a bubble of Jewish supremacy . Avnery himself fought to dispossess the Palestinians in 1948. It has been violence all the way.
Meanwhile Bibi tells Israelis that they can’t have a decent standard of living because the settlers are more important.
link to english.themarker.com
“We have the power to solve the problems I mentioned tonight. I don’t know if we will solve them all. It’s impossible to solve everything. I know that the public has demands: ‘We want this and that.’ But that isn’t how things are in the real world. One always has to make choices. One can solve the biggest problems or most of the problems, but it’s impossible to solve all the problems and impossible to meet all the demands.”
Israel has made the choices alright and now is going to pay for them.
they say every picture tells a story.. this one could be a wake up call for any card carrying zionist, not that they are interested in waking up, but wow.. the parallels are uncanny…
This is the violence and war which is waged at a low but constant level every day against women, children and every Palestinian. Here is Israel’s chance, like Cast Lead to make it overt, under the usual ruse of ‘self-defence’. I have no doubt that they see this as another opportunity to change some more ‘facts on the ground’, claiming more land, caging more Palestinians in to ghettos, destroying more buildings, schools and infrastructure and generally doing their best to make Palestinian life unliveable. Another irreversible notch in the slow ethnic cleansing. Here is their chance to make the settlers the new model army, a vigilante militia like the IDF, but present it to the world in the usual utterly false way, with lies and manufactured stories, provoking the Palestinians as much as possible. Violence they relish, they have a US supplied mountain of arms and technology against teachers, doctors, farmers and the unemployed. Like Cast Lead and the Marmar a turkey shoot, after which they will award themselves medals and peddle more blatant lies. It’s easy, they have a track record, they know what to do, and they couldn’t care less what anybody thinks. And their little lackeys in the US will do their bidding and cover for them, supporting whatever they are told to do.
RE: “Avnery says UN vote could bring violence/crackdown to West Bank” ~ annie
A LITTLE CONTEXT FROM URI AVNERY (9/02/11) AS TO WHY HE FEARS THE WORST (which would not have made it past the IDF censors at Haaretz):
ENTIRE COMMENTARY – link to counterpunch.org
It is a good idea to listen to our village elders…who have been there before.
Eerie, the same tactics are used by the Syrian regime:
“Regime snipers carefully selected their targets on the basis of specific criteria (filming demonstrations with cell phones, using megaphones, carrying banners, etc) designed to incapacitate mid-level organizers. It took nearly three months for the death toll in Syria to surpass the number of people murdered by Egypt’s government in just 18 days—an extraordinarily large bang for the bullet.”
link to nationalinterest.org
If the Israelis are all ready with violent responses the best tactic would be to inflict an anticlimax on them. Though no doubt there are plenty of provocateurs available.
Cable Details Israeli Army’s Planned Abuse of Civilian Protesters
US Envoy: Israel Considers Any Protest an Excuse to Use Military
One of the WikiLeaks cables, however, shows that it was explicit military policy to abuse civilians engaged in non-violent protests.
link to news.antiwar.com
As Witty will say, it’s all Hamas’ fault.
The real problem will come from the outposts rather than the built up settlements. The outpost settlers are paranoid fanatics and they are all armed. Come September every Palestinian they see, man woman or child will be target practice time. These people will be the spark that ignites a real tragedy.
Somehow restraint is unmanly.
Restraint on the part of prospective intifada, restraint on the part of settlers.
Anyone here suggesting restraint? Please?
I disagree with Avneri regarding the necessity of removing settlers and settlements, instead preferring that they be allowed to stay where they, but under Palestinian sovereignty, as Palestinian citizens (renouncing their Israeli), and obeying Palestinian law (presumably that would compel the settlements to be integrated rather than segregated).
On a scale of one to 100, what are the chances of that occurring, Richard? Make that zero to 100, with zero being “none,” 100 being “absolutely for sure.”
I can’t think of a more unrealistic proposal.
Better not spread it around…a settler will shoot you.
i can just see witty having the temerity to take a trip to the westbank, lol… reality would take a tool on him in more ways then one…
Richard Witty said, ‘You have to pay close attention to what I say
‘On the surface, I look reasonable. But what I’m really saying is that Palestinians who want to march peacefully and nonviolently in their own country to celebrate the (possible) U.N. recognition should “restrain” themselves. I use the same word, “restraint,” for the armed and dangerous illegal Israeli settlers, the same kinds of people who slaughtered Palestinians who were praying in a mosque, one of whom murdered Israel’s prime minister.
‘My motive here is transparent. Once the Israeli shooting starts, I will blame BOTH sides for the deaths, and I will issue more pious, vague calls for “mutual humanization.”‘
I don’t know in realpolitik.
In the context of a peace agreement, it removes the settlers as an obstacle. It puts the ball in their court.
Do you love the land so much that you want to remain? or is the association with a Jewish state more important?
Puts the ball in their court and also rewards them for taking advantage of apartheid policies. If the Palestinians are willing to allow this, they should really make the Israelis (and not the international community or the US) pay for it. If the Palestinians aren’t willing to allow this, then they have every right to kick them out.
There will need to be some sort of agreement. hopefully after the Palestinians get statehood there can be honest negotiations.
Why should we believe that? You just said on another thread that Israel is prepared to cut off all aid to Gaza if Gaza gets aid from Turkey.
There is nothing honest about negotiations with you people. Case and point:
link to mondoweiss.net
link to mondoweiss.net
And what have the settlers traditionally done? Pogroms, pogroms and more pogroms? And what have you traditionally done, with respect to that? Demanded that the settlers be allowed to stay.
You don’t know the first thing about peace, Witty, because you openly reject justice. You just want your money’s worth out of Zionism, right?
What would you consider justice Chaos? justice w/ out compromise will be impossible.
You just want your money’s worth out of Zionism, right?
what kinda racist dribble is that?
Witty gets nothing out of Israel except a chance for cheap retirement property. His rights aren’t suppressed in the US. He’s not suffering any persecution here. He’s CLEARLY not motivated by social justice.
There was no compromise at the Nuremberg trials, and there will be no compromise for Israel’s crimes.
I was always a proponent of compromise. For example, there is a contentious dispute in some part of USA: should 10 Commandments be displayed in courts and other public buildings. Why can’t people compromise and agree to display 5 Commandments?
heh!
…and prayer…maybe 2 1/2 times a day…and a law that still lets you beat your wife…except only on fridays.
Gosh, Witty, does this mean the settlers have to take a turn at living downhill from the sewage ponds?
the rabbis wouldn’t allow it… that location is saved for the goyin.. all according to some holy religion we aren’t a part of.. of course you could sign up for zionism 101 and maybe that would entitle you to a piece of higher ground, lol..
Actually Rabbi Fomon (sp?) from a smallish settlement promosed just that, visited Abu Mazen and urged other rabbis to support Palestinian statehood bid. Judging on comments in JP, it is rather rare (roughly, 5 supporting, and 100 split: is he senile or insane?)
Most Rabbis in those parts will not tell you the name of their god, but it seems to be Huitzipochtli. But some follow deities that do no demand offerings of blood. (I do not mean passover matzos, but exhortation of Rev. Rontsky to soldiers departing for Jihad to show no mercy to the enemy, or Kings’ Torah.)