‘September: The Threat of an Opportunity’ – Israeli settlers plan to confront Palestinian demonstrators

Israel/PalestineUS Politics
on 0 Comments

KM Ben-Ari of the National Unity Party has announced a call to action for Israeli settlers in the West Bank to march out and confront anticipated Palestinian demonstrations later this month, which he describes as delegitimizing provocations by “Arabs” and the “far-left.” He has prepared an outline for his campaign titled “September: The Threat of an Opportunity – Changing the Rules of the Game.”

Although the IDF is providing both training and weapons to Israeli settlers, Ben-Ari anticipates a scenario where the security forces will be overwhelmed, and thus cut and run: “[I] doubt that the security forces can effectively protect every settlement, in the event that demonstrations break out simultaneously all across the region. In such cases, the result will be [a retreat] – resulting in the abandonment of Jewish territory, looting [by Palestinians], property damage, and worse.” Ben-Ari has said that the settlers who flock to his banner must make every effort not to give an inch in the face of the “enemy” -  that is, both Palestinians and the Israeli government, which he accusses of being willing to let the West Bank to become a “terrorist state” rather than endure the “burden” of the settlements any longer.

Below is an English translation of Ben-Ari’s manifesto as reported on by Arutz 7 (it is not entirely clear if the Hebrew text presented on the site is Ben-Ari’s report itself, or condensed version edited by Arutz 7):


The [Palestinians’] September demonstrations present an opportunity to tell everyone, whether they want to hear it or not, that Judea and Samaria are our home:

We’re here! This is the legacy of our forefathers!
We’re here to stay forever!
We’re here! For the people of Israel!

The security forces have amply demontrasted that going into the anticipated September protests [by the Palestinians], they do not share the settlers’ concerns. Undoubtedly, this is the result of a political consensus that views the settlements as a “burden.” Even though the security forces have the option of working with the settlers to protect their homes and property, there has been minimal preparation by the security forces to mobilize them.

This is the settlers’ chance to declare that they are here!

There are 330,000 settlers in the West Bank (excluding East Jerusalem)! Settlers’ [security] squads, security coordinators and patrol vehicles are permanently on alert. And settlers have knowledge of the area and know the weaknesses of the [Palestinian] enemy.

We believe that if the settlers do not act to defend the settlements, no one else will. Ehud Barak and Netanyahu desire the establishment of a terrorist state on Israeli soil; they will not defend the settlers.

The plan is to organize hundreds and even thousands of kids, children, women and old men (with the assistance of reinforcements) from the settlements and walk right up to the Palestinian demonstrators, waving Israeli flags as we march across Israeli territory.

These actions will repeat themselves across Israel; the settlers will face down the opposing forces. No more [Israeli] soldiers and border guards in front of groups of Arab women and children. But children with children, boys with boys and women with women – it will destroy the “effect of September” and this will change the equation on the ground forever.

[Snip]

The campaign staff will include representatives of all relevant bodies, mayors, community leaders, and residents’ committees . . . representatives of the hilltop youth, and the like. When this goes down it will run effectively, but we will struggle in some areas:

The headquarters unit will be headed by an operations officer and team coordinators. Staff will unite all the existing workforce . . . [and] will prepare an operational plan based on the independent agenda of the settlers, and [staff will] organize marches and mass rallies outside the villages but also will be responsible for sending a response force for each locality where the event takes place against the terrorists.

The logistics team will ensure the supply of equipment for the marchers and a regular supply of food and water. The equipment provided will include legal “self-protection equipment” which would allow activists to defend themselves and retaliate in case of assault.

Much of the enemy’s campaign is going to take place in the media. Arabs run the media campaign, and at the disposal of the Arabs and leftists are not only most of the media establishment, but also many skilled speakers. The communications team will be based primarily on the Forum speakers in the West Bank with the assistance of the observation unit.

Lawyers and jurists that will handle legal challenges arising from the defense minister should he try to argue that these actions will harm the residents of Judea and Samaria. If any settlers are arrested during the events, the legal team will come to their assistance.

The Arutz 7 reporting obliquely references the necessity of reaching out to foreign organizations to carry out this campaign. It is not clear what organizations Ben-Ari and his supporters have in mind, though the French Jewish Defense League has announced that it is coordinating the dispatch of volunteer “guards” who have military training with five West Bank settlements.

No Responses Yet

  1. Avi
    September 12, 2011, 3:43 pm

    This is shaping up to be a massacre of large proportions. Providing the colonists with weapons and training is essentially a carte blanche to kill at will.

    Israel is hoping that the violence the colonists inflict on Palestinians will be so enormous as to push Palestinians to strike back, thus justifying a harsh response from the military, one that will be equivalent to Gaza 2009 or Jenin 2002.

    And, depending on how Israeli thugs will play this, this has the potential of turning into a large scale violent clash, possibly involving Palestinian refugees in neighboring states. Pushed far enough, people in Jordan could very well take to the streets. The monarch would be risking his position.

    • seafoid
      September 12, 2011, 4:12 pm

      The settlers have lost the international support they need to keep the settlement project alive.

      The Palestinians are under intense lobbying not to bring Israel before the International Court of Justice. That is how bad the YESHA project is. It has no leg to stand on. That is how the politics look now. YESHA was never legal and a weakened US can’t prop it up in a region that hates it.

      The settlers can kill thousands of Palestinians if they want but it will only bring forward the inevitable.

      Israel can’t afford to dismantle YESHA. It can’f afford the lawsuits. It can’t afford civil war.

      YESHA was designed to be too big to fail.
      It is about to fail.

    • BillM
      September 12, 2011, 4:40 pm

      Unfortunately, you are correct, Avi. There is going to be massive bloodshed with settlers instigating attacks and then the Israeli forces moving in to “separate” the two sides.

    • justicewillprevail
      September 12, 2011, 4:44 pm

      Israel is deliberately inciting civil war against the Palestinians, using armed settlers and the IDF against defenceless people. No doubt their strategy is to drown the push for statehood in an orgy of violent headlines, where of course, the propaganda machine will go into full swing to portray it as violent Palestinian terrorists encouraged by the vote. The cynicism is appalling, the indifference to life disturbing. No doubt some zealots in the government imagine a chance to push the Israeli lines further, dispossess more Palestinians and take their land, and surround them in more confined spaces than ever. Never underestimate the Israeli appetite to use violence to further its long term goals of a greater Israel without the indigenous people. Where is the so-called threat to the settlers? There is no evidence of it, except in the hysterical Israeli mindset, one stoked by people who have manipulative, cynical aims to use the chaos they are fomenting for political ends.

      • anonymouscomments
        September 12, 2011, 11:41 pm

        The settler fringe was always heavily armed. What more did they need, grenades? I suppose now the majority of settlers, those for economic reasons alone, with less/no ideological motives, have been given some more arms. But the fringe is all I expect to leave the settlements themselves, hence conflicting with unarmed palestinian demonstrators…. with a very loose trigger finger.

        But as long as all those activists and Palestinians I know with cameras in the west bank are ready, the sporadic killings and even mini-massacres will be a (tragic) blessing for the cause of justice.

        Though the news and video will rarely grace US media, Europe and the world should have some sick images to digest.

        They can try to incite a violent third intifada… but Egypt was inspiring and the political benefits from settler murder will strengthen the nonviolent resistance.

        …. but two forces might (will?) try (and succeed?) to carry out or incite violence in the west bank… fringe groups more extreme than Hamas and not under their control… and paid collaborators effectively carrying out false flag attacks for israel (either paid Palestinians, or nutter Israelis themselves firing on Israelis or placing bombs).

        Also, expect israel to concurrently bomb a good deal of civilians/militants/political figures in the strip to incite some rockets for propaganda material, or even to get Hamas or gazan groups to activate the minimal assets they still have in the west bank.

        I suggest someone on MW document the timeline of all attacks and violence from both sides. The strategy will be readily apparent, though the media will ignore it. Just like the second intifada which was sparked off with Israeli brutality on Israeli Arabs…. which killed a good number of Israelis (but Arabs… the kind that don’t count, and so many Israelis tell me are better off dead or in Jordan)

        Let’s just hope the Palestinians can swallow the senseless bloodshed they are dealt, to further their cause. Violence from the impotent side has only helped israel, hence why they incite incite it- even pre 1948/israel. I think all the informed members here know of Ben Gurion’s history and all the Jewish terror and/or “reprisals”.

  2. annie
    September 12, 2011, 3:44 pm

    The plan is to organize hundreds and even thousands of kids, children, women and old men (with the assistance of reinforcements) from the settlements and walk right up to the Palestinian demonstrators, waving Israeli flags as we march across Israeli territory.

    oh this is just hunky dorie. on the pretense of ‘protecting settlements’ (which, as far as i know, palestinians are not planning on marching into) they are going to march across Israeli territory into the palestinian villages i presume because that is where palestinians normally protest, and walk right up to them.

    this is just outrageous. is the idf going to protect palestinians from this kind of confrontation/provocation?

    • Bumblebye
      September 12, 2011, 4:03 pm

      IDF protect Palestinians??? Annie! When have they ever done that? And anyway, they’re seen as “the enemy” or “terrorists” on Israeli soil. Those words are used in this ‘manifesto’. Here’s little kids being taught how to use “legal sef-defense equipment”:
      link to imemc.org

  3. tod
    September 12, 2011, 3:49 pm

    Looting?
    I don’t get it. Why would the Palestinians loot their own homes?

  4. Chu
    September 12, 2011, 4:03 pm

    A Kosher Jonestown Death March. Wish I had a video camera for that day. What a horror show it would be. A little studio editing, and it could be my first independent horror flick.

    Settlers coveting thy neighbor’s house. Why doesn’t Netanyahu get these losers on a back to work program? Get them out of the colonial dress and back to being productive members of society and the world. They’ll thank him for it decades later. But we know he’s only looking at the short term gains, the problem with Israel politics. These settlers are serious losers and squatters to boot. And all the Zionist’s do is protect them, as do the US democrats and their brethren republicans. They defend the worst side of humanity for political favor. That’s the core of it…

  5. Real Jew
    September 12, 2011, 4:10 pm

    I am absolutely shocked! Not because of the obvious insanity of a “democratic” country arming civilians to fight other civilians, but because the IDF is actually giving up the chance to “legally” shoot Palestinians. Considering they have proven to the world that this is one of their favorite past times I’m shocked they aren’t jumping at the opportunity.

    Maybe, just maybe, they’ve realized that it looks bad when you kill your own nonviolent citizens. Damn you Syria! So what do they do……let the settlers do it instead!

    This viciously irresponsible act by the IDF is giving an already violent and uncontrollable population (settlers) a green light to kill Arabs! Wtf?! Why isn’t the international community speaking up about this?

    • eee
      September 12, 2011, 4:50 pm

      Real Jew,

      Settlers get shot at on the roads and in their homes. I know you think they are occupiers and that Palestinians have a right to shoot them. But by doing so, they give the settlers a very good excuse to be armed. How can the IDF deny them weapons? It can’t be everywhere all the time. And what can the international community say? Is anyone willing to be responsible for the death of settler children because they denied their parents guns?

      • Chu
        September 12, 2011, 5:07 pm

        Settlers expansionary desires, makes them targets. They want a free lunch at the expense of the Palestinians. It’s sad you defend them.
        Is this God’s plan?
        In reality, you cannot occupy your neighbors lands and houses and not expect retaliation from them. Send the settlers back to Tel-Aviv to work in factories. They’re not even effective at occupying. They’re sucking away the nation’s profit.

      • eljay
        September 12, 2011, 5:21 pm

        >> It’s sad you defend them.

        Q. You’re stealing and occupying someone else’s land. You encounter resistance. What do you do?
        A. Get the f*ck off their land.

        eee’s answer: Arm yourself to the teeth and kill the bastards. After all, it’s a “required” evil for a “greater good”!

        His hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist “common sense” never fails to amuse and/or mystify.

        • eee
          September 12, 2011, 6:50 pm

          Eljay,

          The problem with your answer is that if we apply your way of thinking to 1948, you would deny the Jews in Israel the right to fight for their independence. And of course it is common sense that the Jews in 1948 had every right to defend themselves. Yes, many settlers need to leave the West Bank as part of an historical compromise with the Palestinians. But only negotiations will do the trick. If you shot at them, they will shoot back. That is just common sense.

          People that use common sense accept the world as it is as a first step to solving problems and changing the world. People who reject common sense look at reality and ignore it because it doesn’t fit their world map. And the reality in this case is simple. Human nature is such that if you shoot at people, they shoot back unless you kill enough of them. And that the Palestinians have not been able to do. And neither have the Israelis. So what is left? Negotiations. There is no other solution.

        • NorthOfFortyNine
          September 12, 2011, 7:21 pm

          And of course it is common sense that the Jews in 1948 had every right to defend themselves.

          In Central Greenland, with the permission of the Danes, maybe. -N49.

        • lysias
          September 12, 2011, 7:37 pm

          The problem with your answer is that if we apply your way of thinking to 1948, you would deny the Jews in Israel the right to fight for their independence.

          I think it ought to be clear by now to most people who know anything about the history that everybody, including the Jews of Palestine and the Palestinian Arabs, would have been better off if the plan that people like Judah Magnes and the chief U.S. diplomat in Palestine at the time were pushing, for a binational state, had succeeded.

        • eee
          September 12, 2011, 9:51 pm

          Yes, yes. My and Richard’s views are pretty much mainstream in Israel and in the Jewish community in Israel. Therefore according to you most Jews are “hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist”. Face it eljay, you are an extremist.

        • Chaos4700
          September 12, 2011, 10:34 pm

          Eljay doesn’t belong to a community mainstream that wages pogroms by torching olive farms, nor uses white phosphorous on schoolchildren, nor murders people in international waters.

          Eljay’s not the extremist and 98% of America would agree if they were allowed to see what you are really doing, eee.

        • RoHa
          September 13, 2011, 12:01 am

          “if we apply your way of thinking to 1948, you would deny the Jews in Israel the right to fight for their independence.”

          The Jews in Palestine in 1948 had no right to fight for the creation of a Jewish State.

          “And of course it is common sense that the Jews in 1948 had every right to defend themselves. ”

          They weren’t defending themselves. They were creating a Jewish State.

          (Incidentally, it is interesting that you employ the moral notion of rights, and yet reject morality.)

        • RoHa
          September 13, 2011, 12:04 am

          ‘My and Richard’s views are pretty much mainstream in Israel and in the Jewish community in Israel. Therefore according to you most Jews are “hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist”. ‘

          If the Jewish community in Israel does share your views, then they are hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists.

          If most Jews (not just the Israeli ones) share your views, then most Jews are hateful and immoral Zio-supremacists.

          You may not like to hear that said, but truth is truth regardless of your likes and dislikes.

        • anonymouscomments
          September 13, 2011, 1:03 am

          face it eee, israel is an extremist NATION (come on, i know you admit you have your share, but can you admit it is a national policy at this point?). having lived there for 4 months, recently, with family, i sadly found out the majority are, and i can quote you quoting someone else, “hateful and immoral zio-supremacists”. nuanced and variable in their “logic” but same main conclusions, regardless how their tortured minds and logic gets there. and i found the palestinians, at least those i really knew on the “seam line” in which I lived for 2 months (yes, unrepresentative) remarkably tolerant, nonviolent, and full of concessions just to stop the BS. i lived next to a bar israelis went to 2x a week in area A, “illegally” (you know AIC?). and every night drinking in the west bank i was with 1/3 jews, and palestinians thought NOTHING of it. i was much more aware of the beautiful coexistence.

          you live in 1984…. the world is always infected with 1984 ideas to variable degrees. but israel has got it by the book, literally (US in close second but ahead in the body count by orders of magnitude; please stop giving us lessons in the manufactured clash of civilizations you require our participation in). enjoy your next war for for peace. and you were always at war with eurasia (iran), right? except when you were dealing arms with them…. and i mean the current regime in iran (again, obviously applies to the US as well). wake up… your elites are screwing with you just like the elites always screw the populace. yet you spend you time on “leftists” who threaten you sooooo much.

          the house of cards will collapse regardless of us getting the truth out…. try to stop the building of the next level of cards, and the next. the cards are so high now they might kill as they reach terminal velocity, due to the near vacuum of morality they will be falling through, which you helped create. your head is not covered… is that why you spend so much time trying to prolong a house of cards with words of the same level of substance?

        • eee
          September 13, 2011, 1:25 am

          RoHa,

          Painting the majority of Jews in the world as “hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist” is plain crazy. But you know that. You just can’t help biting the bullet when the consistency of your argument is in jeopardy.

          I use the language of rights for brevity, though I find the notion of rights extremely vague and indeterminate upon reflection. Several million Jews say that you wrong about the fact that Jews should not have tried to create a Jewish state. Why are you right and they are wrong and what are you going to do about it? Nothing, thus showing that the Jews should have created a state.

        • eee
          September 13, 2011, 1:28 am

          Lysias,

          After the Hebron Massacre of 1929 the bi-national state lost all its support in the Jewish street. It is not clear if the bi-national state had any support in the Arab street since the Palestinians so themselves as part of the Arab nation and wanted to be part of Syria initially.

        • eee
          September 13, 2011, 1:31 am

          Chaos,

          You are an American no? According to YOUR standards the US has killed many more civilians than Israel by far. Are most Americans “hateful and immoral Ameri-supermacists”?

        • eee
          September 13, 2011, 1:34 am

          N49,

          Jewish self determination is a bitch isn’t it? We don’t have to ask anyone’s permission. I know you don’t like that, but that exactly is what the Jewish state is for, so Jews can decide their own destiny. You see, it is not your call. It is the call of the millions of Jews world wide and we have decided.

        • tree
          September 13, 2011, 4:32 am

          You see, it is not your call. It is the call of the millions of Jews world wide and we have decided.

          I missed the point where “millions of Jews world wide” got to vote on this. Israel just usurped it, and didn’t ask world wide Jewish permission to do it. Doesn’t sound like “Jewish self-determination” to me. It sounds like a scam. If being able to oppresss Palestinians and deny their right to live in their homes based solely on their ethnicity is “Jewish self-determination” how is that any difference from “Nazi German self-determination”? Seriously.

        • eljay
          September 13, 2011, 10:47 am

          >> Face it eljay, you are an extremist.

          Believing in peace, justice, accountability, morality and human rights makes me an extremist. I don’t know how I can live with myself. Actually, I do: I’m not a hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist.

          eee and his “common sense”, hard at work. Too funny.

        • Bumblebye
          September 13, 2011, 11:18 am

          eeeee
          You should not be permitted to even mention the Hebron Massacre without also mentioning the local Palestinian families who sheltered and protected over 400 Jews. Obviously, zio-supremacism requires noting of onlythe deaths,to preserve the ‘persecution’ meme, not the saving of many others to promote coexistence. Shame on you.

        • RoHa
          September 13, 2011, 9:40 pm

          Painting the majority of Jews in the world as “hateful and immoral Zio-supremacist” is plain crazy.

          Why?

          “Several million Jews say that you wrong about the fact that Jews should not have tried to create a Jewish state. ”

          Which shows that they are immoral Zio-supremacists.

          And I am right because my view is based on morality, not tribal obsession.

      • tree
        September 12, 2011, 5:47 pm

        Palestinians get shot at on the roads and in their homes. I know you think they are terrorists and that Israelis have a right to shoot them. But by doing so, they give the Palestinians a very good excuse to be armed. How can the IDF deny them weapons? It can’t be everywhere all the time. And what can the Israeli community say? Is anyone willing to be responsible for the death of Palestinian children because they denied their parents guns?

        Your double standard slip is showing again, eee.

        • eee
          September 12, 2011, 6:52 pm

          Where do you see double standards? Where did I deny that it is common sense that Palestinians want to shoot at settlers? There has been enough violence to lend each side many reasons to want to protect themselves and shoot the other.

        • tree
          September 13, 2011, 4:23 am

          Your double standard is on justifying the IDF giving weapons to the Jewish settlers. Israel is an occupying power. Therefor it must see to the protection of those under its occupation-i.e., the Palestinians. If it makes sense to you for thr IDF to provide weapons to the settlers for protection then it should likewise make sense for the IDF to arm the Palestinians to protect themsleves.

      • Real Jew
        September 13, 2011, 8:40 pm

        Eee, based on your response to my initial post you seem to believe settlers deserve to have security. Well I don’t disagree but your clearly viewing this issue strictly on the surface

        First off, I don’t believe Palestinians have the right to shoot settlers because they are viewed as occupiers. I don’t know anybody who would. And as an American, I do acknowledge settlers’ right to bear arms, for protection. But the problem is, and I think we can both agree, the settlers are consistently becoming more extreme and violent. These despicable “price tag” attacks carried out against innocent Arab civilians are increasing in both numbers and severity. And has even spread to attacks on other Israelis such as the police force and the recent attacks on an IDF base causing vehicle and property damage.

        Now, considering this dangerous trend that has befallen the settler community, it is grossly irresponsible for the IDF to provide weapons to such an unstable and hateful community. Further more, settlers being armed by the government will in a sense legitimize or justify violent behavior toward their Arab neighbors which will only increase attacks of aggression, not defense.

        So….do you consider Israel’s aggressive policy of denying Palestinians their right to bear arms total hypocrisy or not?

  6. American
    September 12, 2011, 4:12 pm

    Article in Haarezt says the JDL in France is sending ‘Jews with fighting experience” to defend the settlements and some have already arrived in Israel to prepare. The JDL isn’t listed as terrorist org in France as it is here the US.
    Israel really pulling out all the stops to get some violence going aren’t they?

    Something else in Haarezt. Very silly and absurd article.
    As if anyone believes that Israel would send one of their commanders to jail for ‘accidently’ wandering into an other country’s waters. I suppose we can guess why this silly story even appeared.
    To let the other countries guess which one of them was violated undetected so they will tremble at Israel’s easy breach of their radar?
    To try and show it was such an “accident”, so unintentional that the officer responsible for the ‘accident’ had to be jailed. LOL
    God, these people are so stupid with their amateur disinfo it gives me a headache.

    Diplomacy & DefensePublished 22:06 12.09.11
    Latest update 22:06 12.09.11
    Israel Navy ship accidentally enters waters of neighboring Arab nation
    Commander sent to jail after a navigational error caused his reconnaissance vessel to cross several hundred meters into neighboring waters before being ordered back by Israeli radar station.
    By Anshel Pfeffer
    Tags: IDF Israel Navy

    An Israel Navy reconnaissance vessel accidently entered the territorial waters of a neighboring Arab nation last week, in an incident first reported by Channel 10 on Sunday.

    According to a probe by Israel Defense Forces, the ship’s commander reputedly committed a navigational error, which caused the “Dvora”-class ship to enter 700 meters into the neighboring country’s waters.

    The infiltration was not detected by the neighboring country’s forces, with an Israel Navy radar warning the vessel and directing it toward international waters.

    An IDF spokesperson said in response that the military conducted “an operational investigation in which the ship’s commander was tried and sentenced to prison,” stressing that the ship “went over by only a few hundred meters.”

    The incident took place only two days after another naval mishap, one which caused seven Israeli employees of a private security firm to be briefly arrested by the Egyptian Navy near the Straits of Tiran in the Red Sea.

    The four security men and three other crew members were arrested on a yacht Wednesday after they reportedly threw their personal weapons overboard in a fright upon noticing a nearby Egyptian naval patrol.

    The Israeli yacht was escorted into the Sinai port city of Sharm el-Sheikh, where the Israelis were interrogated. At that point, official contact between the Israeli foreign ministry and its Egyptian counterpart began in order to clarify what the Israeli side said was a misunderstanding.

    Following several hours of detention, the seven were released early Thursday morning, and made their way to the southern city of Eilat.’

    • annie
      September 12, 2011, 4:18 pm

      Article in Haarezt says the JDL in France is sending ‘Jews with fighting experience” to defend the settlements

      american, as far as i know that story broke a week ago, on mondoweiss Alert: French JDL is recruiting ‘militants’ to travel to West Bank in 2 weeks.

    • eee
      September 12, 2011, 4:44 pm

      American,
      You really know nothing about the IDF. This story about the dvora is most probably true. Many times soldiers are sentenced to jail for being careless.

      • American
        September 13, 2011, 3:41 pm

        eee

        I don’t recall the any IAF being sentenced to prison for the attack on the USS Liberty.
        Dont’ recall any sentenced for the “accidential, careless’ killing of Rachel Corrie and others.
        Don’t recall any Israeli assassins being sentenced for missing their target and killing some civilians instead.
        How long did the IDF Col. get for shooting the 13 year old Palestine girl 25 times? A month?

    • lysias
      September 12, 2011, 7:20 pm

      Interesting that the Ha’aretz article doesn’t identify the neighboring Arab country into whose waters the Dvora penetrated. Military censorship? I think it’s pretty obvious it’s got to be Egypt, especially with the language at the end of the article about the yacht and Egypt.

      As for the Dvora, I wonder if the captain’s arrest is just cover for a covertly authorized recon mission.

      • DBG
        September 13, 2011, 11:42 am

        It most certainly isn’t Egypt, it was most likely Lebanon. This wouldn’t have been as big of an issue because Egypt and Israel are at peace, where Lebanon and Israel are still in a state of war.

        • lysias
          September 13, 2011, 2:46 pm

          Richard Silverstein this morning identifies the country as Egypt: Israeli Warship Violates Egyptian Waters, Captain Imprisoned:

          Israeli censorship prevents the naming of the country whose waters were violated. But an Israeli source confirms that it was Egypt.

          I guess I’m better at reading between the lines imposed by Israeli military censorship than you are.

  7. eee
    September 12, 2011, 4:13 pm

    You cannot see two steps ahead. I have been telling you that this is coming. You seem to think that Palestinians will choose a strategy and that Israel or the settlers will just accept it. The Palestinians will call what they are doing non-violent, the settlers will call what they are doing non-violent, and all that is required is one idiot from either side to cause a blood bath.

    Just negotiations will bring a peaceful solution. This is not like South Africa where 10% of the population is living among the majority. This is Yugoslavia. “Non-violence” works when one group can overwhelm the other in size. When there are two groups that each use “non-violence” they call it civil war, and that is what you strategy will bring.

    • NorthOfFortyNine
      September 12, 2011, 4:27 pm

      eee,

      Are you advocating a pogrom? Or just justifying one?

      -N49.

    • seafoid
      September 12, 2011, 4:40 pm

      eee

      The New York Times wants negotiations too. That bus left 20 years ago.
      Israel went on the YESHA bus instead. It got stuck in some crowd trouble in Cairo Saturday, I heard. The bus was surrounded. Calls to the traffic police went unanswered.

      You got your 20 years of procrastination and now its time to pay the piper.

      • DBG
        September 13, 2011, 11:43 am

        without negotiation there is war.

        • seafoid
          September 13, 2011, 12:35 pm

          Try it, DBG. What good is war going to do Israel ?
          Just another nail in the coffin of the Jewish state.

        • DBG
          September 13, 2011, 1:47 pm

          what are you talking about? If it isn’t negotiations or war, what are the other alternatives?

        • seafoid
          September 13, 2011, 3:07 pm

          Economic sanctions.

          What was the point of negotiating with Israel, DBG?

          What did Israel do for peace since 1991 ?

        • American
          September 13, 2011, 3:44 pm

          “without negotiation there is war”

          LOL….. that’s funny DGB
          Israel has been making war for decades and calling it negotiations.

        • seafoid
          September 13, 2011, 3:50 pm

          “Without negotiation there is war”.
          Sometimes there can be mutual respect, there can be tolerance , there can be decency, fairness, justice.

          Not under Zionism, obviously.

    • Shingo
      September 12, 2011, 4:48 pm

      Negotiations will only bring more land theft and ergo if cleansing eee – that practice that you endorse so passionately.

      Do you think negotiations would have created Israel?

    • Bumblebye
      September 12, 2011, 4:55 pm

      e(gocentric)e(mbittered)e(ejit)
      You really don’t understand, do you? We and the Palestinians know *exactly* which side the the first shots are most likely to come from. Your “idiots” are orders of magnitude more dangerous than theirs.

      As for negotiations – what has been the purpose except their perpetuation while your compatriots simply carry on stealing, destroying and killing? 44 YEARS and nothing gained on the Palestinian side, only further losses. And where has been the progress in resolving ’48 issues? Like compensation or RoR? That’s 63 years outstanding. Why should anyone in the world, let alone the Palestinians, have any faith in continuing “negotiations”! To go back to that table would be the height of stupidity.

      You fear the “blood bath” because YOUR side will commit it, and the world is far less likely to sit back and let you reward yourselves for it.

      • eee
        September 12, 2011, 6:59 pm

        The height of stupidity is to pursue strategies that will make their situation worse. And what Palestinians plan to do will make their situation worse. You sound like the Palestinian leaders in 1947 who said that accepting the UN partition resolution would be stupid. 64 years later, they look foolish indeed having basically sentence generations of Palestinians to refugee camps. The Palestinians can only have a peaceful future by negotiations. You want to risk a civil war with the settlers? Go for it.

        • annie
          September 12, 2011, 7:02 pm

          eee, it doesn’t mean they won’t still have an opportunity or ability to negotiate. it will just strengthen their hand in negotiations.

        • justicewillprevail
          September 12, 2011, 7:14 pm

          Exactly. Israel has been avoiding substantive and serious negotiations for years, so posturing now that negotiations are the only way is only condemning them to more of the same. What was good for Israel – declaring a state at the UN – is just as good for their fellow countrymen. There is no threat of violence in it all – the threat of violence is only coming from one side, who seem desperate to deny the Palestinians the thing they pretend to want to negotiate about. It is hypocrisy and lies. Israel could have had peace years ago, had it been serious about returning the West Bank. It never was.

        • eee
          September 13, 2011, 1:44 am

          Annie,

          The Palestinians thought violence would strengthen their hand in negotiations. It just had the opposite effect. And so will these marches. If the Palestinians stay within the confine of their cities and villages, nobody will care about the protests because they will not bother anyone. So, there will have to be provocations which means marching on a settlement or something of that nature. So good luck confronting the settlers. I hope you have thought your strategy through but I doubt it very much.

        • Cliff
          September 13, 2011, 6:41 am

          eee,

          The Palestinians failed at violence because they don’t have the military capacity to inflict serious damage.

          The Palestinians are currently being fought for their non-violent resistance as well. And it remains to be seen whether they will be victorious or not. They certainly have scored several victories though, in and of itself.

          The Palestinians have every right to resist their subjugation, violently or non-violently.

          You have made similar comments about Palestinian resistance before. No one knows what will happen for sure. We know that Israel is violent and cracks-down on protests by Palestinians and their supporters with extreme violence. Running over an American in a BULLDOZER is a good example. Shooting gas canisters AT people, is another.

          Let’s establish one thing since you side-step it often:

          The Palestinian struggle is noble. No one would accept Zionist colonialism if they were the ones losing their land to it. NO ONE.

          This is not intrinsic to being a Palestinian. If you came to India and tried to make your Jewish State on top of me and my family I would fight you.

          If you came to Ohio (lol) and did the same, I’d fight you. It’s as simple as that.

          Now you have in other threads said stuff like ‘if you shoot rockets at my family, I will kill you’ – which I agree with.

          Except, you committed the original sin and you’re STILL committing it. You CYNICALLY say ‘I’m a 2nd gen. Israeli, I am not a colonist’ but aside from that fact, you support colonialism. You support the settlers. You make disgusting racist arguments and white-wash Israeli crimes in the OT.

          The list is endless. You are cut from the same cloth as the colonists and thus, are an apologist for the colonialism inherent to Zionism.

          So when you issue your moral outrage periodically here at MW, it means nothing. You are the problem, not the rockets. Zionism is the problem.

          And furthermore, the Palestinians will NEVER accept that they should give up all resistance in all forms and simply negotiate away their rights.

          As we speak, your racist apartheid State is building facts on the ground. It is within your interest to ‘negotiate’ with the Palestinians since they have NO cards to play at the table. It is only through BDS or those non-violent protests do they seem to be a threat to Israel.

          So they should continue on. They have suffered for so long, and will continue to suffer. The Palestinians should simply ask themselves one thing:

          Is it worth it?

          And I think the obvious answer will be yes. It is. No one should trust a Zionist negotiator. No one would choose to live under Zionist colonial rule.

          You keep thinking this is unique to Palestinians and Arabs.

        • DBG
          September 13, 2011, 11:44 am

          rocks, firebombs, and storming borders isn’t non-violence.

        • Cliff
          September 13, 2011, 2:23 pm

          And rocks, firebombs,and storming borders isn’t the non-violent movement in Palestine

    • libra
      September 12, 2011, 7:11 pm

      eee: just a couple of days ago you were complaining about the use of children’s art to make a political point. But now seemingly you have no complaint about settlers directly using their children to make a political point.

      Furthermore, having made clear in the past your contempt for Palestinians who send their children to throw stones at the IDF, don’t you find this planned use by the settlers of their children to confront the Palestinians just a little cowardly?

      And aren’t you just a tiny bit concerned for the safety of these children? Particularly as the settlers are clearly relishing the prospect of violence breaking out, and you’re certainly anticipating a possible bloodbath. After all, I recall the huge fuss you made earlier in the year about the settler children who were murdered at Itamar? Have the lives of Jewish children suddenly been devalued? Or are they just grist to your hasbara mill?

      • eee
        September 12, 2011, 8:40 pm

        Libra,

        What are you talking about, do you see me sending my children to these “non-violent” confrontations? As for being cowardly, going together with your children to demonstrate or throw stones is a less cowardly than just sending them. Of course I worry about these children, but I can’t be more worried about them than their parents. The responsibility is ultimately theirs.

  8. Paul Mutter
    September 12, 2011, 4:27 pm

    I should note that the Ben-Ari quotes in the second paragraph of this article also came from the translation of the Arutz 7 article linked to in the third paragraph (in case anyone was wondering where his statement about the IDF cutting and running had appeared – same place as his countermarch proposal).

  9. pabelmont
    September 12, 2011, 4:32 pm

    For years, Israel has treated (mere) demonstrations as a danger (or as violence, or as terrorism) to Israel. Now, they will allow settler thugs to attack demonstrators (as, of course, the army has been doing for years), but the settlers are not under the (quasi) restraints of military discipline.

    It’s pogrom time, and the video-cameras will get it and I hope Al Jazeera can air it in real time for the world to see.

    Best if the Palestinians hold up their demonstrations and stay indoors for a week or so after the UN vote. It’ll be frustrating, but frustrating chiefly to the settlers.

  10. piotr
    September 12, 2011, 5:05 pm

    To be sure, this is NOT a novel idea, and it actually works, up to a point.

    I think this describes quite well the situation in Darfur, to give an example. Or, indeed, former Yugoslavia.

    As far as “organizing women, children, old and decrepit” is concerned, I read a number of depiction of “prize tag” operations when they pelt Palestinians with stones. Without reinforcements with actual arms they would get beaten up, and with no much sympathy gained in the process, so not too clever. If they do it in too many places, reinforcements will be inadequate in most places. So you would need to have settlers matching really, really peacefully to gain at least “moral advantage”, and I think it is impossible, because “settlers” is a non-homogeneous group. I mean, the more extreme settlers would start some mayhem (e.g. throwing stones) and we are back to square one.

    I think than Ben-Ari is not the best strategist.