From the JTA:
Top White House officials briefed Jewish community leaders about a Quartet statement urging Israelis and Palestinians to return to talks with no preconditions, a key Israeli demand.
"The Quartet reiterated its urgent appeal to the parties to overcome the current obstacles and resume direct bilateral Israeli-Palestinian negotiations without delay or preconditions," said a statement released Friday evening by the grouping of the United States, Russia, the United Nations and the European Union that guides Middle East peace talks.
Officials, including Dennis Ross, President Obama's top Middle East adviser, pitched the statement to the Jewish listeners as a major accomplishment in Israel's favor.
Seems some on the call still wanted more:
The Anti-Defamation League praised the call for talks without preconditions, but expressed reservations about a timeline and parameters.
"We believe the Quartet erred in setting a preliminary agenda limited to issues of security and borders and timetables for proposals," the ADL said in a statement. "By going as far as it does, the Quartet statement misses an opportunity to send the clearest possible message to the Palestinians that the sole path to statehood lies in direct negotiations with Israel."
quartet is a waste of time; it exists simply to internationalize and further legitimize israel’s tactic of obstruction and temporazation while its colonists grab ever more of the west bank and east jerusalem. Israel will stretch out negotiations forever if it can and the quartet is only there to help this happen.
Abbas should just forget about negotiations for the time being and concentrate on UN recognition; doing so may not work, it may backfire, but its the best of the bad range of choices facing him; hopefully and independent Palestine will be able to gain its fast disappearing leverage for dealing with israel and the us
The quartet is totally a waste of time. Half the quartet is biased in Israel’s favor. Tony Blair is a Zionist shill on Rupert Murdoch’s payroll, he’s Murdoch’s daughter’s godfather even.
The quartet aren’t getting anywhere with Israel.
The diagnois is the same as it has always been. Zionism has gone too far and has to be defeated just like apartheid was defeated . It’s going to drag Judaism down with it, of course.
seafoid: “It’s going to drag Judaism down with it, of course.”
An interesting story has it that a new rabbi was talking to the president of his synagogue and asked if he should talk about (strict) sabbath observance in his sermon. NO! Strict kosher observance? NO! [something else]? NO! Then what should I talk about? Judaism! (Nowadays, [how we all love and support] Israel.)
What’ll they talk about when Israel folds? Dersh? Anybody? Any ideas?
Abbas made it very clear. The line in the cement is stop the illegal settlements. Period. Otherwise two state solution looks like it is over
Watch this documentary about Tony B-Liar as a “peace” envoy for the Quartet:-
link to youtube.com
“Since resigning in June 2007 Tony Blair has financially enriched himself more than any ex-Prime Minister ever. Reporter Peter Oborne reveals some of the sources of his new-found wealth, much of which comes from the Middle East.
On the day Tony Blair resigned as Prime Minister, he was appointed the official representative Envoy of the Quartet on the Middle East. By January 2009 he had set up Tony Blair Associates – his international consultancy – which handles multi-million pound contracts in the Middle East.
It is so secretive we don’t know all the locations they do business in. Dispatches shows that at the same time as Blair is visiting Middle East leaders in his Quartet role he is receiving vast sums from some of them. If Blair represented the UK government, the EU, the IMF, the UN or the World Bank, this would not be permitted”.
The bottom line is this: the conflict will NEVER resolve under American or Israeli mediation. It was undoubtedly justified for the Palestinian leadership to internationalize the conflict via UN recognition due to intentional meddleing by the US to prevent any progress. The sole hope for a fair and just peace is through the international community. Period
i agree.. removing peace talks from who have been doing it for the past however many years would be better then what has happened to date… lets see if the international community can get beyond having it’s chain yanked by the same powers…
I agree. Expecting Israel to reform is naive. Just look at the alternative to the current government.
“Just look at the alternative to the current government.”
Exactly. This goes for both Israel and US govt. Israelis has just elected Shelly Yachimovich to lead the labor party who believes “building settlements in the West Bank is not a sin but a right.” Ron Paul has a better chance of being elected president than Israel has of reforming
And as far as the US… Perry? Bachmann? Romney? Really? Iran…..here we come!
I agree, Real Jew. For Israelis, Iran is Nazi Germany despite utter absurdity of this faith in face of objective reality. Question is, how long will US MSM be able to keep reality from American masses? Here’s a summary of awakening (“emerging US Spring?”) how US blank check 2 Israel is not in US interest (except 4 US elite)–growing # of average Americans know it despite press muzzle: link to t.co
The memo has not reached Obama/Beiden or any of the Republican contenders, who claim there’s no “sky” (Beiden, same guy dissed by Bibi when he told Bibi Israel was harming US interests) or “space”
(all contenders @ Orlando except Ron Paul) between US and Israel.
Great link Citizen. Hit the nail right on the head. Thank you.
“By going as far as it does, the Quartet statement misses an opportunity to send the clearest possible message to the Palestinians
The Palestinians sent the Quartet a message. The declaration attached to its membership application to the Security Council reminded that the Road Map (which it adopted) contains conditions:
See A/66/371–S/2011/592
link to un.org
Bibi blared he told Abbas he was ready to sit down right there at the UN & start negotiating; he told Obama’s re-recruited Dennis Ross contingent of “Israel’s lawyers” that “no conditions” meant no terms of reference. It’s like the big neighborhood bully lout, with his boot on the little kid’s face, looked up at Uncle Sam the cop, saying, “I’m ready to talk but the little bugger just won’t agree–he keeps babbling about laws & whining I stole his bike and my family is trespassing–can you believe it? It’s driving me crazy! What a crock!” Obama is suppose to be Officer Friendly in the neighborhood. “Lemme know if the little brat bites you,” he says, and walks off, shooting the bully a sincere look.
gangsterism — QED
when the usa isn’t selling peace agreements it is selling military arms… not sure where this country is coming from on the export front…
when the usa isn’t selling peace agreements it is selling military arms… not sure where this country is coming from on the export front…
The United States has been violating General Assembly resolutions adopted after its 9th Emergency Special Session for years. For example, when the Security Council failed to sanction Israel after the annexation of the Golan, the Assembly finally adopted these measures:
13. Calls once more upon all Member States to apply the following
measures:
(a) To refrain from supplying Israel with any weapons and related
equipment and to suspend any military assistance that Israel receives
from them;
(b) To refrain from acquiring any weapons or military equipment from
Israel;
(c) To suspend economic, financial and technological assistance to and
co-operation with Israel;
(d) To sever diplomatic, trade and cultural relations with Israel;
link to un.org
The White House claimed that President Barack Obama had vowed to hold Israel and the Palestinian Authority “accountable” for any actions that “undermine trust” during a new round of indirect peace talks.
link to voanews.com
Although Netanyahu refused to halt illegal demolitions and construction in East Jerusalem, Obama offered him a squadron of free F-35s in exchange for a 90-day moratorium and promised never to ask again. He also punished Israel by vetoing a Security Council resolution on the illegality of the settlements. Nuff said.
thanks hostage… the hypocritical role that the usa has played in the ””’peace”” process is duly noted by anyone with half a brain who hasn’t given the other half over to zionism…
Yes, Obama, inter alia, promised Bibi 20 free state-of-the-art F-35s at $3 million apiece (R & D costs courtesy of USA taxpayers & selected NATO taxpayers). Obama definitely not Ike: link to lewrockwell.com
That was around the time Bibi dissed Beiden for briefly bringing up the subject of settlements and Americans soldiers at risk.
those are some cheap f-35s Citizen, were they model airplanes?
You are correct, DBG. My serious mistake. An official at the JSF program office said Lockheed’s $65 million price tag claim is “disingenuous” because it does not include the Pratt & Whitney F135 engine that powers the jet. So Obama jumped at the chance to give Israel 20 @ $65 million each plus cost of said engine–anybody, how much is that (which Bibi flatly rejected)?
Hard to pin down the price. Last thing I read was $130 million plus $20 million for engine=$150 million each x 20=
Not punished, Hostage, rewarded!
“Not punished, Hostage, rewarded!”
It was sarcasm, me thinks, John.
Halting all settlement expansion is not a precondition. It is both common sense (pizza analogy) and an Israeli obligation according to the Oslo Accords.
I’m sure that Dershowitz would argue that building on Palestinian private and public land and moving hundreds of thousands of Israeli citizens into the West Bank does not actually change its “status”, but any idiot can see that Israel has been violating both the letter and the spirit of that article for almost 16 years to the day (signed 28 September, 1995).
Shmuel,
Common sense says that if you are really bothered about the pizza being eaten, you would negotiate faster. Just saying that you will not negotiate until the other side stops eating puts you in a worse situation.
eating someone elses pizza says a lot about the one eating the pizza too… i think someone owes the other the pizza… i thought you folks ate hummus instead of pizza?
Common sense says that if the other side eats all the pizza you make sure he doesn’t get any money in his bank account.
That’s called BDS.
Common sense says that if you are really bothered about the pizza being eaten, you would negotiate faster.
Common sense and customary international law actually dictates that you never conduct negotiations or renounce any rights when there is either a threat or coercive force is actually being used to intimidate one of the parties. See Article 52, Coercion of a State by the threat or use of force” in the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties:
link to untreaty.un.org
It’s ludicrous when the Quartet doesn’t even insist that the IDF pullout of the areas of the West Bank that it reoccupied after the Oslo Accords. The primary judicial organ of the UN advised that Israel is under an obligation not to raise any obstacle to the exercise of such rights in those fields where competence had been transferred to the Palestinian authorities. The latest Quartet statements actually violate the principles of repatriation and non-renunciation contained in Article 8 of the 4th Geneva Convention. link to icrc.org
remind me to keep eee off the invite list for my next pizza party.
eee,
In America, when we sit down to share an uncut pizza, nobody takes out his or her own knife and starts boorishly and greedily cutting off pizza and gobbling it up before or after the person designated to cut the pizza commences cutting, and either distributing the pizza as pieces are cut off, or until all the slices are cut for everyone at the table to take a slice. Must be different in Israel; they must like recipes for a food fight over there.
Also, one can be bothered as hell about someone is doing right in front of you, but if you are small and they are big, prudence may dictate you try to cautiously negotiate with the bully. You know, like the Jews did in Germany once upon a time in the West?
eee, you really do think just like a Nazi back in the day with your version of “common sense,” belittling the Palestinians for not negotiating faster while they are being robbed and bullied about by Israel.
Citizen,
According to this blog the way a pizza is shared in the US is like this. First, your bought Congress decrees that the pizza supports Israel. Then AIPAC give half the pizza to the politicians. Then the MSM interviews the pizza but publishes what it says if it is pro-Israel. Then the Native Americans claim the pizza but are ignored. And then the rest of the pizza goes to medicare and medicaid.
And of course believing that greater Jerusalem should be part of Israel is behaving like a Nazi. You really need to eat in that ORGANIC restaurant in Ramallah with Phil.
Hasbara talking point #512: “organic restaurant.”
Buck up, kiddos, we’re going to be subjected to this ad naseum for a solid MONTH before the come up with some fresh bullshit to rake over.
you forgot to mention who bought congress…. that little detail skews the crap out of your stolen pizza…
“And of course believing that greater Jerusalem should be part of Israel is behaving like a Nazi”
Why, eee. Do you believe otherwise?
If Israel and the U.S. insist on no preconditions and Israel can do whatever the hell it wants while negotiating: steal, uproot trees, destroy and demolish property, imprison activists and children unjustly and kill indiscriminately, then Palestinians can go back to resorting to violent resistance to defend themselves against the Israelis’ criminal behavior.
Or does “no preconditions” swing only one way??? If so…TOUGH SHET!
only one side can be called terrorists kalithea… it is not allowed to call those who “steal, uproot trees, destroy and demolish property, imprison activists and children unjustly and kill indiscriminately” terrorists…
this is the way the mainstream media (who have regularly ignored these ”salient” points) have defined it.. thank you nyt and wapo and etc. etc… when we figure out how to stop the bullshit press, we will be a step ahead…
I’ll say this for Obama, he’s gotten really good at rearranging the deck chairs on his personal Titanic.
Now Chaos, hold yourself now. Titanic was a beautiful ship. ;)
It’s not very pretty right now, is it?
An American administration sells something as “good for Israel.”
In related news, a plane has just taken off from Logan Airport, here in Boston.
At this point, a “win” for Israel is really a “loss” – all of these “wins” just add to the eventuality of one state, and only act to expedite it. So, have at it.
Israel “wins” now, Zionism “loses” later.
Netanyahu said that 9/11 was good for Israel…
”It’s very good.” ”Well, not very good, but it will generate immediate sympathy.” “We are benefiting from one thing, and that is the attack on the Twin Towers and Pentagon, and the American struggle in Iraq,”
Zionism will definitely lose eventually. The ‘liberal Zionists’ defending Zionism have a different definition of what it is. They view it as Jewish Nationalism and self-determination, a safe haven on the same land written about in scripture, surrounded by a culture that they can relate to.
That isn’t what Zionism really is. Real Zionism is a fascist political ideology created by atheists (and some say Sabbateans) contradictory to Judaism. I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out that it was designed from the start to destroy Judaism really. You got dispensationalism and rapturous fundies wanting as many Jews as possible to emigrate to Israel. You got birthrate and Zionist camps trying to get as many Jews as possible to emigrate to Israel. Then you can Israeli leadership and state-sponsored terrorism dragging them into illegitimacy.
Charon, I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but don’t you think the Old Testament is soaked with what may reasonably now be characterized as Fascism and its dirty deeds, and has been so characterized by some scholars? Blood and soil ideology, taking “living space” and violently getting rid of the locals is a biblical leitmotif. Of course back then nobody was wearing belt buckles embossed with “Gott Mit Uns.”
Also there are two bipolar versions of what being “chosen” means. The test of virtue is power.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if it turned out that it was designed from the start to destroy Judaism really.”
It was, Charon:
“The new movement took the Star of David from the synagogue, the candlestick from the Temple, the blue-and-white flag from the prayer shawl. The Holy Land became a homeland. Zionism filled the religious symbols with secular, national content. The first to detect the falsification were the Orthodox Rabbis. Almost all of them damned Herzl and his Zionism in no uncertain terms.”(Avnery, 2010)
“It was the Zionist threat that offered the gravest danger, for it sought to rob the traditional community of its very birthright, both in the Diaspora and in Eretz Israel, the object of its messianic hopes. Zionism challenged all the aspects of traditional Judaism: in its proposal of a modern, national Jewish identity; in the subordination of traditional society to new lifestyles; and in its attitude to religious concepts of Diaspora and redemption. The Zionist threat reached every Jewish community. It was unrelenting and uncompromising, and therefore it met with uncompromising opposition”. (cited in Rabkin, 2006, p. 2)
Uriel Zimmer, an Orthodox Jew and former United Nations reporter for several newspapers, states the ultimate goal of Zionism:
“The real aim of Zionism is the one stated innumerable times by the various Zionist thinkers and ideologists from its earliest conception until this day. From the essays of Achad Haam to the speeches of Ben Gurion, we can hear definitions of one goal, in various versions and phrases but with never-changing content:
TO CHANGE THE IDENTITY OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE!”
That’s very interesting john h, I’ll have to read more into it. It isn’t surprising at all once you start reading between the lines.
If that was their aim, they have been successful. The identity of the Jewish people has been changed forever. The hexagram is one example of this. It did not become the official symbol of Judaism until it appeared on the Zionist flag. Ashkenazi were already using it but this usage doesn’t date much farther than the French revolution. Before that time it was only used to represent a few families. The menorah is the real symbol of Judaism. Not the ‘what is up is also below’ hexagram of pagan and mystery beliefs.
The hundreds of Holocaust museums in USA and around the world are Zionist churches. AIPAC is their Vatican state?
Here is some more on this, from an article by Yakov M Rabkin in 2009, called “Demystifying Zionism” (informationclearinghouse):
“The historical Jewish people was defined neither as a race, nor as a people of this country or that, or of this political system or that, nor as a people that speaks the same language, but as the people of Torah Judaism and of its commandments, as the people of a specific way of life, both on the spiritual and the practical plane, a way of life that expresses the acceptance of … the yoke of the Torah and of its commandments.
Zionism rejected the traditional definition in favour of a modern national one. Thus Zionists accepted the anti-Semites’ view of the Jews as a distinct people or race and, moreover, internalized much of the anti-Semitic blame directed at the Jews, accused of being degenerate unproductive parasites. Zionists set out to reform and redeem the Jews from their sad condition.
In the words of Professor Elie Barnavi, former Israeli ambassador in Paris, “Zionism was an invention of intellectuals and assimilated Jews… who turned their back on the rabbis and aspired to modernity, seeking desperately for a remedy for their existential anxiety”. The founder of Zionism, Theodore Herzl, considered anti-Semites “friends and allies” of his movement.
Zionism has been a rebellion against traditional Judaism and its cult of humility and appeasement. It has been a valiant attempt to transform the meek pious Jew relying on divine providence into an intrepid secular Hebrew relying on his own power. This transformation has been an impressive success.
There is little wonder that the Zionist idea provoked immediate opposition among traditional Jews. “Zionism is the most terrible enemy that has ever arisen to the Jewish Nation. … Zionism kills the nation and then elevates the corpse to the throne”, proclaimed a prominent European rabbi nearly a century ago.
Rabbis were also concerned, long before the declaration of the state of Israel, that “the Zionists would ultimately create a Judaism of cannons and bayonets that would invert the roles of David and Goliath and would end in a perversion of Judaism, which had never glorified war and never idolized warriors.”
Grafting traditional Jewish symbols on essentially secular Zionism, however incongruous, is very potent. Zionism has replaced Judaism as a new religion for millions of secular and atheistic people. They reflexively reject disapproval of Israel and avoid unpleasant facts about it. Believing to act as good Jews, they cherish and cheer on an ideal, virtual Israel.
Conflation of Israel with Jews and their history serves to muddle and throttle rational discussion. This is why it is so important to make distinctions between the following concepts: Zionism and Judaism; Israel as a state, as a country, as a territory, and as the Holy Land; Jews (Israelis and others), Israelis (Jews and non-Jews), Zionists (Jews and Christians) and anti-Zionists (again Jews and Christians). Israel should be treated as any independent country: according to its own merits and faults, without references to the Holocaust or the pogroms in Odessa.
To avoid anti-Semitic overtones in discussing Israel, it is important to remember that Zionism has been a daring revolt against Jewish continuity, and to dissociate Jews and Judaism from the State of Israel and its actions.”
I don’t think Bibi or the US Congress ever got Rabkin’s memo, nor did, it almost goes with saying, AIPAC & the Establishment Jewish community in the USA. BTW, Atzmon said the same thing in The Wandering Who about Zionism–and much more succinctly. It’s arguable that his book over all could have been less inflamatory, but there’s a lot of very realistic gems in it, actually supported by much more intensive scholarship beyond what his few footnotes suggest. Then again, it’s more like an extended essay than a scholastic tome. I think the main point of his book is that until Jews think of being human first, rather than second, after being a Jew, it might help everybody. That’s why he starts off the book with the question: What does it mean to identify the self as a Jewish self first?
If I want to buy a house, I typically employ a broker. But no matter how “good” (or impartial or energetic or honest) my broker is, it the owner does not want to sell, the broker is irrelevant.
Israel does not want to sell a “just and lasting peace”.
The quartet is, at best, another broker. Maybe better than USA, but seems not to be. Nevertheless, only a broker.
If QTT demands that Israel and Palestine make peace before 12/31/11, the demand is likely to fall on deaf ears, perhaps on both sides, because each side must hear an offer they can “buy” before they tell the broker he has been a success.
If there is to be a “sale” here, the external circumstances for Israel or Palestine or both must change. Israel must WANT to sell. Palestine must WANT to buy.
I recommend to our side (i.e., pro “just and lasting peace a la 242″) that we CHANGE ISRAEL’S CIRCUMSTANCESS by encouraging the nations, the members of the UN, the signatories to the Geneva Conventions, that they employ gradually increasing BDS pressure on Israel until Israel removes all settlers and dismantles all settlements and the wall (or makes peace) (or ends the occupation entirely, which means removing the army in addition to the rest).
As a practical matter the only one who has enough leverage to encourage Israel towards a just and lasting peace is the USA–by virtue of asking anyone educated in just how much aid (both direct and indirect) we have given, and continue to give to Israel.
Nothing good will happen until lots of everyday Americans have a real grasp of what Israel does, and does with just how much of our tax cash. It’s just possible the escalating presidential debates about Israel a la the Weiner empty seat make more real details go national, so much so that
even AIPAC’s lacky US MSM starts really giving unbiased data to Joe & Jane Public.
“Top White House officials briefed Jewish community leaders”
I’m sure that “Top White House officials” also briefed Arab and/or Muslim community leaders, too, right?? Right??
“Israel does not want to sell a “just and lasting peace”.”
Zionism is eternal war. It’s the cult of militarism ,the absence of a constitution, the fact the country has no fixed borders, the centrality of hasbara , the shoddy education system.
I am comforted by the collapse of Lehman. The Zionists are too sure of themselves and it’s all going to come crashing down. And MJ Rosenberg is right. Bibi is a moron.
America, israel, the quartet AND the EU are all in it together – opposing Palestinian Independence.
The EU for the first time in it’s history, is actually trying to block a people/entity from using the ICC, ie the Palestinians:
link to tvnz.co.nz
Sharameet!!
“a Quartet statement urging Israelis and Palestinians to return to talks with no preconditions”
…besides the same old preconditions in their minds, of course, which will result in the same old preconditions being spoken out within the first five minutes, which will result in the same old stalemate.
“The EU’s foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton, went to the Middle East this week to mediate between Israel and the Palestinians with the aim of reviving peace talks and averting a Palestinian statehood bid at the UN General Assembly”
So she’s expecting them to give up a considerable chance of actually achieving something important in favour of the ___th session of the above outlined discussion. I think the West has spent too much time consuming their own media excretions that they’ve successfully convinced themselves that the Arab world is inept in every way. How else can this grade-A insult to the Palestinian’s intelligence and common sense be explained? Hardly surprising though seeing as the EU as a whole were always going to play along with the US’ stance on this.
“Sharameet”
Kalba!
No preconditions; but Palestine must recognize Israel as THE JEWISH STATE (or “a Jewish state”). [someone should persuade Khazaria, whatever it is called these days, to re-establish itself as “a Jewish state”, and be sort of Iran-ish about it. Put Israel to shame. Another state for the Jewish people.
Well, what repercussions are the little pissants going to cause?
What are they going to do…attack someone, blow up something?
JERUSALEM: Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said on Sunday there would be “tough repercussions” if the United Nations approved a Palestinian application for statehood.
Lieberman did not spell out what action Israel would take if the world body backed the application made on Friday by Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas at the U.N. General Assembly.
If the Palestinians will indeed pass a one-sided resolution if not in the Security Council then the General Assembly, that would bring us to an altogether new situation and this would have repercussions, tough repercussions,” Lieberman said in an interview on Israel Radio.
“Any unilateral step will bring an Israeli reaction,” Lieberman added”
(The Daily Star :: Lebanon News :: http://www.dailystar.com.lb)
Lieberman would cut off his own penis if he thought it would scare the Palestinians and secure the settlements for another few hours.
He is the greatest asset the Palestinians have ever had.
I was just looking at the most recent 100 comments and it is like viewing a factory where hasbara is rendered . Eee, lli and hophmi bring in the entrails and the team processes with industrial efficiency. And the 3 clowns think they are doing the work of Hashem! They are like the aphids that ants enslave.
Don’t make me commit any crimes even more horrible than those I’m committing daily today! Please, don’t make me do it! (Or is is, “don’t throw me in the briar patch” ?)
God’s Away On Business
I’d sell your heart to the junk man baby
For a buck, for a buck
If you’re looking for someone
To pull you out of that ditch
You’re out of luck, you’re out of luck
The ship is sinking
The ship is sinking
The ship is sinking
There’s leak, there’s leak,
In the boiler room
The poor, the lame, the blind
Who are the ones that we kept in charge?
Killers(Sharon), thieves(Bibi), and lawyers(Dershowitz)
God’s away, God’s away,
God’s away on Business. Business.
God’s away, God’s away,
God’s away on Business. Business.
Digging up the dead with
A shovel and a pick
It’s a job, it’s a job
Bloody moon rising with
A plague and a flood
Join the mob, join the mob
It’s all over, it’s all over, it’s all over
There’s a leak, there’s a leak,
In the boiler room
The poor, the lame, the blind
Who are the ones that we kept in charge?
Killers, thieves, and lawyers
God’s away, God’s away, God’s away
On Business. Business.
God’s away, God’s away,
On Business. Business.
Goddamn ther’s always such
A big temptation
To be good, To be good
There’s always free cheddar in
A mousetrap, baby
It’s a deal, it’s a deal
God’s away, God’s away, God’s away
On Business. Business.
God’s away, God’s away, God’s away
On Business. Business.
I narrow my eyes like a coin slot baby,
Let her ring, let her ring
God’s away, God’s away,
God’s away on Business.
Business…
link to youtube.com
As long as the ‘negotiations’ are all that exist as a peace process, Israel/US has complete control of the situation. Nothing happens except explicitly what they allow. Israel controls the whole of the West Bank and Gaza, as far as they are concerned the WB is Israel, so what in reality is there to negotiate about? A few enclaves which will be sealed from the outside world and patrolled by Israel.
No wonder they are hysterical and desperate to preserve this status quo, where the Palestinians have no rights whatsoever, only those which Israel allows them, and can be withdrawn at any time. What bothers them is that Palestine has refused to play along with the charade which guarantees their extinction. The Quartet farce only seeks to continue this process of oblivion for Palestine. However Palestine as a recognised state, even if only notional, gives them some rights which takes the complete control that Israel exercises away, in some measure. Israel depends and exploits the statelessness of Palestinians, occupying territory which they then claim is ‘disputed’, taking water which they pretend is up for grabs, and treating them like foreigners in their own land. Attacking key institutions and symbols of the state is also part of the strategy to demolish any of the statehood which guarantees rights. No wonder the heartless bastards don’t like the Palestinians doing what they did themselves.
“What bothers them is that Palestine has refused to play along with the charade which guarantees their extinction”
This. The game is up and Zionism will not survive in the long run nor will Zionist Israel. The Holy Land will still be there and it will retain its Jewish character, the citizens will just have to share it with the indigenous people who they’ve pretended were biblical enemies for the past few decades. Not that Israel should have come into being anyways (not the way that it did) but it will wind up being what it should have been this entire time.
The only state that Bibi is willing to concede are those little enclaves and not even the international community or the USA will allow to happen.
“The game is up and Zionism will not survive in the long run nor will Zionist Israel.”
Love this from Richard Silverstein’s summation of Barak Ravid’s column on the two UN speeches:
“Ravid describes the reception of Netanyahu’s UN speech as a sorry affair. Many of the delegates had left and the minutes-long applause that greeted Abu Mazen’s speech was withheld from the Israeli leader. The only applause he received was mainly from his own delegation and other Jews who were in the hall at the time.
Ravid even says of Bibi: he refused to ask himself why it is that people throughout the world don’t believe a word that comes out of his mouth.
After comparing the warmth and effusiveness of the reception that greeted Abbas and the coldness that Bibi experienced, Ravid closes by saying:
For anyone who had any further doubt: this [Abbas' reception] is how a political tsunami looks and that [Bibi's] is how international isolation feels.”
So, does anyone have a report revealing how the UNGA reacted to Obama’s speech so obviously parroting Bibi’s POV?
US opens the door to the Gulf countries
link to haaretz.com
A U.S. Congressmen said Monday that the Palestinians should think twice about their bid to gain recognition at the United Nations,urging the Palestinian Authority to “reverse course” and get back to the negotiation table.
Speaking at a gathering of Congressmen and leaders of Jewish organizations outside the United Nations headquarters in New York, Rep. Gary Ackerman, member of the House Subcommittee on the Middle East and South Asia, stressed that “There may need to be a total cutoff of all aid to the Palestinians for pursuing this course of action which is very dangerous and ill advised.”
“There may need to be a total cutoff of all aid to the Palestinians for pursuing this course of action
Abbas and the PLO have made it clear that the PA has only one function, independence. They have also made it clear that if it can’t achieve that goal, it should not exist. As far as they are concerned Gary Ackerman is subsidizing the costs of the occupying power and he can put his “aid to the Palestinians” where the moon don’t shine.
“dangerous and ill advised” IOW
Yeah, it’d be a shame if, god forbid, something untoward should happen to your family. I’m just trying to help.
The US Congress sells protection: hi-class gangsterism, just like Smedley Butler described.
Yeah, Smedley laid it out on the table but Dick & Jane never bothered to dine there. Instead they went to see Paul Newman play a Jewish colonialist, and followed up later with a night watching Fiddler On The Roof. Both good shows, as far as they went, but therein lay the rub. By now even Dick & Jane feel a bit sore from the rubbing.
if there are no preconditions to peace, then it seems pretty obvious that proceeding with the UN statehood bid is no impediment to peace. Palestine can return to the negotiating table with its upgraded status, and Israel will have no problem with this because there are no preconditions.
Unfortunately, Israel sees the UN statehood bid as a provocation. That and Israel does have a precondition – they insist on being recognized as the Jewish State. The Palestinians will never agree to that and they also have a precondition which is to cease settlement construction activity which Israel will never agree to. Therefore, negotiations are not going to happen. The quartet is wasting their time. At least that’s my opinion on it.
Israel does have a precondition – they insist on being recognized as the Jewish State.
We’ve been there before. The 1988 Algiers Declaration of the PLO explicitly noted the fact that UN General Assembly Resolution 181 (1947) partitioned Palestine into two states, one Arab, one Jewish – and that this Resolution still provides the conditions of international legitimacy.
Israel reacted by unilaterally declaring the resolution null and void, but the General Assembly and ICJ cited it as a “relevant resolution” in the 2003-2004 Wall case. UN General Assembly Resolution A/RES/48/158D, 20 December 1993. para. 5(c) stipulated that the permanent status negotiations guarantee ‘arrangements for peace and security of all States in the region, including those named in resolution 181(II) of 29 November 1947, within secure and internationally recognized boundaries’. Israel doesn’t want to touch resolution 181(II) or its minority rights provisions with a barge pole, but that is likely to be the only recognition of a “Jewish state” that it will ever obtain.
The Palestinians will never agree to that and they also have a precondition which is to cease settlement construction activity which Israel will never agree to.
That end of settlement activity is actually a requirement of international law and it is a Road Map obligation that has been cited in Security Council resolutions that are binding upon all member states in accordance with Articles 24 and 25 of the UN Charter.
Provocation, however, is not a pre-condition. Either is “No Provocations”. In my book, apart from being violations of international law, the settlers and settlements and wall are “provocations” and removing them entirely is something very much [in my viewe] like a pre-condition. all the talk about “freezing” settlements was a crock. The issue was (or should have been) removing them. not freezing them.
I agree, pabelmount. It is an index to Bibi & his friends that they gave Obama the finger to his offer of 20 F-35s inter alia, in addition to the usual foreign aid, the biggest US chunk of it annually, when all Obama asked for was a 3 month moratorium on settlement building, and Obama added that would be the only time he would mention settlements to Israel! Israel does not even see that Uncle Sam is doing them another a big favor already by not conditioning all foreign aid and UN vetos in behalf Israel on Israel’s total withdrawing of ALL settlements. I can see future Israel demanding POTUS to pressure Jordan to accept all Palestinians as exercising their ROT.
When the quartet statement was first released it sounded ominous, like the quartet states were doubling down behind the US and Israel.
However, looking more closely, the statement was just a lot of fluffy words without much substance. I suspect that the quartet members realize that they are quite irrelevant and probably are simply following Hippocrates advice: first, do no harm (unless the US is willing to pay a big enough bribe or major diplomatic concession to justify the harm).
Somewhere I read: that the USA tried for a sterner statement, but UN and Russia refused, so the “statement” was a poor compromise from the USA’s viewpoint. But, anyway, Palestine don;’t need no broker, the USa’s a dishonest broker, the quartet ditto (because both ALLOW the settlements, while faintly tsk-tsk-ing them (praising them with faint damns). We don;’t know if the UNGA (or its members individually) can be made to take any real sort of action, but either as individuals or as a collective, it is time for nation-level BDS, and everyone knows it. Perhaps Turkey will lead the way.
I read that some Jewish Establishment organizations dissed the quartet’s statement because it inflicted a timetable on Israel. So they don’t want any substance (terms of reference) or process (timetable) inflicted on Israel. They might OK a Mike Myers coffee klutch, “Talk amongst yourselves!” (old SNL repeated sketch)
Is there anyone out there who thinks Tony Blair should not be in the dock as a war criminal? The U.S. and Israel are playing a stalling game in the hopes that all Palestinians will die or go away or lose interest. That’s their entire strategy. Obama has shamed himself for electoral advantage and has divested himself of hope and will run on fear. But he’s the best president since George Bush.
Is there anyone out there who thinks Tony Blair should not be in the dock as a war criminal?
As the old saying goes: “The wheels of justice grind slowly but exceedingly fine”.
There has been some recent activity in the ECHR ordering Iraq war crimes investigations and the UK Iraq Inquiry is still putting evidence into the public domain (where prosecutors from other countries can easily review it).
link to humanrightsinvestigations.org
Plutarch’s Moralia (around 100 CE) has ‘the mills of God grind slow but sure’ but the original metric form was ‘grind late but fine’. Only in the last 100 years or so, as far as I can see, did the wheels of human justice seem to acquire this divine attribute.
Only in the last 100 years or so, as far as I can see, did the wheels of human justice seem to acquire this divine attribute.
The notion of individual criminal responsibility arising under international law for wars of aggression, genocide, war crimes, and crimes against humanity only came into existence in the last last half of the 20th century. The permanent international court, with its own legislative body, was only established in 2002 – and its first trials only began in 2005. Prior to that, the wheels didn’t grind much at all. Like any other penal or judicial system, it will evolve and mature over time.
Not only Abbas but all those capable of thought should ignore the quartet as one would the anal expulsion of intestinal gas in polite society. The solution to this intractable problem will be brought about in time by internal dissensions provoked and fed by BDS.
Another snippet from my current reading
“Jerusalem was originally founded by a Canaanite chieftain called in the vernacular ‘King of Righteousness’ for such he was. He was the first to build the Temple and in its honour to give the name of Jerusalem to the City, previously called Salem… The Canaanite inhabitants were driven out by the Jewish king David, who settled his own people there”.
The Jewish War by Joseph ben Mathias (AD 37 – AD 100), known as Josephus, by birthright a priest, and on his mother’s side the descendant of kings.
‘King of Righteousness’ = ‘Melchizedek’ as per Genesis 14 (treated as King of all Canaan and called priest of God Most High) and Psalm 110, where it is stated that the king in succession to David is ‘a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek’. One of the indications of continuity in the royal cult between Canaanite and Israelite times.
The quartet and the US empty efforts were bulldozed over by Abbas, Ashwari, Erdogan. ENOUGH ENOUGH ENOUGH. If Israel does not agree to stop building illegal settlements and actually stop….no negotiations. Period.
The Palestinian Authority could dissolve. Then the push for a one state solution. Israel loses.
Dennis Ross being in there not negotiating represents failure.
Israel is reduced to lobbying Congress to prevent the Palestinians from gaining their human rights.
It is a long way from Clean Break
link to en.wikipedia.org
“Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right — as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions.”[1]
“While the previous government, and many abroad, may emphasize land for peace— which placed Israel in the position of cultural, economic, political, diplomatic, and military retreat — the new government can promote Western values and traditions.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Instead of trading land for peace, the neocons advocated tossing aside the Oslo agreements that established negotiations and demanding unconditional Palestinian acceptance of Likud’s terms, peace for peace. Rather than negotiations with Syria, they proposed weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. They also advanced a wild scenario to redefine Iraq. Then King Hussein of Jordan would somehow become its ruler; and somehow this Sunni monarch would gain control of the Iraqi Shiites, and through them wean the south Lebanese Shia away from Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria.”
The total failure of the neocon project thanks to the loss of Iraq to Iran , the Arab Spring and the loss of the power of the Turkish military are three hammer blows to the Zionists, however well they try to spin it.
Israel is out of its depth.
The UN GA vote will show how bad things are.
“They also advanced a wild scenario to redefine Iraq. Then King Hussein of Jordan would somehow become its ruler; and somehow this Sunni monarch would gain control of the Iraqi Shiites, and through them wean the south Lebanese Shia away from Hezbollah, Iran, and Syria.”
LOL I can only imagine the notes doodled down at them neocon ‘strategy’ meetings with the word “somehow” used often by everyone there.
Heck “somehow” I’m gonna make everyone submit to MY ‘visionary’ vision of the middle east LOL!
Neocons are such dumb nuts! They got no ‘foresight’ cuz they operate and configure WITHOUT the mindfulness of Cause and Effect.
Their motto: Buy Now and Someone Else Pays Later.
“Heck “somehow” I’m gonna make everyone submit to MY ‘visionary’ vision of the middle east LOL!”
Taxi
did you ever come across “get your war on”?
link to mnftiu.cc
And attacking Iran is still high on their list. So far they basically have the MSM so well trained to roll over or repeat the unsubstantiated claims(Terry Gross, Rachel Maddow, Andrea Mitchell, Diane Rehm, etc etc) without any simple and challenging questions they seem to still be committed to stir up a military confrontation with Iran
If Israel does go after Shia Iran the attendants at Arlington National are going to be very busy. The US is very exposed in Shia Iraq.
What can Israel realistically do to Iran anyway ? Other than bring a barrage of Hezbollah rockets on itself .
They couldn^t beat Hezbollah and they failed to dislodge Hamas. What can they do differently in Iran?
Thanks for the link seafoid – there’s some talented funny dark shit out there!
Taxi
If you like that you should buy the book GYWO 01-08.
link to amazon.com
I’m reading it at the moment. It is iconic.
The best WoT book I have ever read.
I would just love to see the same cold eyed sarcastic jaded realist cynicism applied to Israel. Because it is the same clowns and the same delusions.
Thanks for the tip seafoid – i just put it on my amazon account wish list.
Hey I’m going to the mideast in a few days – I just took six months off work to do a bit of Arab Spring tourism. But first I’m going olive picking with my friends in the South of Lebanon – staying there for five weeks – till it starts to get wintery and then I’m off to Jordon, Syria, Turkey, Egypt, Tunisia, Morocco, Dubai and the Sultanate of Oman – visiting and staying with old family friends in all these countries. It took me four months to organize all this – phew!
I shall happily soon be heading to the Fatima Gate in south Lebanon to point my proverbial middle finger southwards at idf observation towers.
And while I’m down that way, I thought I’d take a little drive from there to Bint J’bail – there I’m hoping to get together with that Robert Werdine from MW: a hasbarado who claims to be from Bint J’bail LOL – well I did ask if he would like to meet there and he declined but I’m hoping he’ll change his mind and have coffee with me eh – heh heh heh…
Israel takes the absolute piss
link to mfa.gov.il
“In two and a half years, we met in Jerusalem only once, even though my door has always been open to you. If you wish, I’ll come to Ramallah. Actually, I have a better suggestion. We’ve both just flown thousands of miles to New York. Now we’re in the same city. We’re in the same building. So let’s meet here today in the United Nations. Who’s there to stop us? What is there to stop us? If we genuinely want peace, what is there to stop us from meeting today and beginning peace negotiations?
And I suggest we talk openly and honestly. Let’s listen to one another. Let’s do as we say in the Middle East: Let’s talk “doogri”. That means straightforward. I’ll tell you my needs and concerns. You’ll tell me yours. And with God’s help, we’ll find the common ground of peace.
There’s an old Arab saying that you cannot applaud with one hand. Well, the same is true of peace. I can not make peace alone. I cannot make peace without you. President Abbas, I extend my hand – the hand of Israel – in peace. I hope that you will grasp that hand. We are both the sons of Abraham. My people call him Avraham. Your people call him Ibrahim. We share the same patriarch. We dwell in the same land. Our destinies are intertwined. Let us realize the vision of Isaiah – [Isaiah 9:1 in Hebrew] – “The people who walk in darkness will see a great light.” Let that light be the light of peace.”
1100 new houses for Jewish settlers in East Jerusalem
link to haaretz.com
Bibi shorthand: “Let me piss on your head and all the heads of your people and tell you and the world its raining peace.”
>> … a simple truth: The core of the conflict is not the settlements. The settlements are a result of the conflict. The settlements have to be – it’s an issue that has to be addressed and resolved in the course of negotiations. …
Hmmm…‘The core of the struggle between the rapist and his victim is not the rape. The rape is a result of the struggle. The rape must be – it’s an issue that has to be resolved in the course of negotiations.’
Bibi appears to suffer from the same debilitating “common sense” that afflicts other Zio-supremacists: We stole, colonized, oppressed, destroyed and killed…but it’s not our fault. We continue to steal, colonize, oppress, destroy and kill…but it’s not our fault. Gosh, all we want is peace. Now, please excuse us, we have to go steal, colonize, oppress, destroy and kill. But it’s not our fault.
What a bunch of ignoramuses these Israelis are! They just approved 1100 new colonialist homes in East Jerusalem, construction to begin in 60 days.
link to abcnews.go.com
link to desertpeace.files.wordpress.com
How stupid can they be!! This should help the Palestinians in their bid for Statehood. Keep digging that hole Israel…keep digging!
Googled two state solution is over a year ago pages around 25 pages. Almost doubled now
link to google.com
Here you go Phil, Annie, Adam etc. Just finished. A must read.
link to walt.foreignpolicy.com
Mearsheimer responds to Goldberg’s latest smear
Posted By Stephen M. Walt Monday, September 26,
Ever since John Mearsheimer and I began writing about the Israel lobby, some of our critics have leveled various personal charges against us. These attacks rarely addressed the substance of what we wrote — a tacit concession that both facts and logic were on our side — but instead accused us of being anti-Semites and conspiracy theorists. They used these false charges to try to discredit and/or marginalize us, and to distract people from the important issues of U.S. Middle East policy that we had raised.
The latest example of this tactic is a recent blog post from Jeffrey Goldberg, where he accused my co-author of endorsing a book by an alleged Holocaust denier and Nazi sympathizer. Goldberg has well-established record of making things up about us, and this latest episode is consistent with his usual approach. I asked Professor Mearsheimer if he wanted to respond to Goldberg’s sally, and he sent the following reply.
This paragraph jumps out
“Atzmon’s basic point is that Jews often talk in universalistic terms, but many of them think and act in particularistic terms. One might say they talk like liberals but act like nationalists. Atzmon will have none of this, which is why he labels himself a self-hating Jew. He fervently believes that Jews are not the “Chosen People” and that they should not privilege their “Jewish-ness” over their other human traits. Moreover, he believes that one must choose between Athens and Jerusalem, as they “can never be blended together into a lucid and coherent worldview.” (p. 86) One can argue that his perspective is dead wrong, or maintain that it is a lovely idea in principle but just not the way the real world works. But it is hardly an illegitimate or ignoble way of thinking about humanity.”
Thanks Kathleen. I’m starting to depend on you to monitor the media for me. :)
By the way, this was a coordinated attack on Mearsheimer and Atzmon from the Jewish communities on both sides of the Atlantic. The day before Goldberg launched his smear, London’s Jewish Chronicle published this on Sept. 22.–
“Mearsheimer Backs Book by Antisemite”
link to thejc.com
And of course the Harry’s Place crowd of “full-time Jews” picked it up and ran with it. Then it was Goldberg’s turn on Sept. 23–
“John Mearsheimer Endorses a Hitler Apologist and Holocaust Revisionist”
link to theatlantic.com
They’re VERY similar.
Atzmon’s site is here–
link to gilad.co.uk
It’s really lovely to see Mearsheimer deftly turn their attack back against them and bring up the idea of a lobby–
The one idea they wanted to keep out of all this!
Tom Friedman did not use the expression “Jewish lobbies”, nor did Walt and Mearsheimer for that matter.
And who are “they”?
“They” are the people who are attacking Mearsheimer and Atzmon. Might even include you, I’m not sure. But I am sure that they are almost entirely Jewish. Is that controversial?
“They” are the people who are attacking Mearsheimer and Atzmon. Might even include you, I’m not sure. But I am sure that they are almost entirely Jewish. Is that controversial?
But who are the people “attacking Mearsheimer and Atzmon”, besides Goldberg and those who have argued all along that M&W are anti-Semites?
I have not attacked Mearsheimer but expressed the view that he made an error in judgement, which may have far-reaching repercussions for the Palestinian solidarity movement. I have also argued (not for the first time) that Atzmon likes to flirt with anti-Semitism and anti-Semites, and is therefore a liability to said movement. I have no problem with Walt and Mearsheimer’s book.
Or perhaps you are referring to anti-Zionist authors who have expressed their dismay at the fact that their progressive publisher (Zero) decided to publish Atzmon’s book, and that Mearsheimer and Falk have endorsed it: link to leninology.blogspot.com
Not that it really matters, but at least some of these authors are obviously not Jewish. I’m guessing that the authors don’t have a problem with W&M’s research either.
Schmuel, here’s what Friedman said, in context:
“The crumbling of key pillars of Israel’s security — the peace with Egypt, the stability of Syria and the friendship of Turkey and Jordan — coupled with the most diplomatically inept and strategically incompetent [I would put 'U.S.' here -- ed] government in Israel’s history have put Israel in a very dangerous situation.
This has also left the U.S. government fed up with Israel’s leadership but a hostage to its ineptitude, because the powerful pro-Israel lobby in an election season can force the administration to defend Israel at the U.N., even when it knows Israel is pursuing policies not in its own interest or America’s.”
So you are technically correct, but readers here who have read W & M’s The Israel Lobby know that their book details how “the lobby” is actually a network of Establishment Jewish Israel First organizations, some of whom they name additional to the umbrella orchestra AIPAC, plus complicit media. Nobody who read the book comes away with the notion of a single Jewish organization that alone lobbies in behalf Israel; it’s a matrix of lobbies, sometimes coordinating, sometimes not so much. So why do you contest the fairness of refering to”Jewish lobbies?”
Schmuel, do you object to what Atzmon says, or that he says it in public?
“The crumbling of key pillars of Israel’s security — the peace with Egypt, the stability of Syria and the friendship of Turkey and Jordan — coupled with the most diplomatically inept and strategically incompetent [I would put 'U.S.' here -- ed] government in Israel’s history have put Israel in a very dangerous situation.”
Daniel Pipes says Turkey has to be taken out
link to danielpipes.org
These people are insane.
Oh gosh yes, seafoid. Be very grateful these race-hating nutjobs aren’t bending the ear of your government. I really don’t know what we’re going to do over here in the US. The level of corruption and subversion of our government, versus its foundational values, is reaching toxic proportions.
Schmuel, do you object to what Atzmon says, or that he says it in public?
What are you insinuating?
thanks kathleen, i will check it out now