This is the graphic at the start of a piece by Spencer Ackerman at Tablet decrying the use of the term "Israel firster."
Hitler graphic at Tablet for Israel firster piece
I would point out only one absurd statement in Spencer Ackerman's argument:
On Tuesday, writer Max Blumenthal used a gross phrase to describe Goldberg: “former Israeli prison guard.”
Does Ackerman actually believe this? Goldberg himself wrote a book called Prisoners. I will quote you the cover of the galley when Knopf published it in 2006:
They met in 1990 during the first Palestinian uprising. One was an American Jew who served as a prison guard in Ketziot; the other was his prisoner-- a leader of the PLO.
As always, Haaretz is more intelligent. Here is Mairav Zonszein of +972 wrestling with Israel firster and finding some merit in the expression:
When progressive entities like the Center for American Progress and figures like M.J. Rosenberg use the term "Israel-firster," they are attempting to deconstruct and challenge the notion that being "pro-Israel" means demanding unchecked support for Israeli policies, even when they directly conflict with the U.S. administration's stated positions and its declared role as an arbiter in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Such people are trying to dismantle the equation between opposition to Israel's current reckless agenda, and concern for Israel's long-term interests and impact on American geopolitics. They are identifying those, whether Jewish or Christian, Democrat or Republican, who, as Rosenberg put it, "consistently - and without exception - thwart the efforts of U.S. presidents to achieve Middle East peace." "Israel-firsters" are not those who put Israel first, but rather those who put an Israeli right-wing agenda first, even at the expense of American interests.
Or as a Jewish speaker at last night's event for Jack Ross in Brooklyn said, The issue of dual loyalty is at the heart of the suggestion by the publisher of an Atlanta Jewish newspaper that Mossad agents based in the U.S. assassinate Barack Obama because he is too tepid on Iran.
So what are we supposed to think when an American says something like this…
“In a talk to an Israeli group in July, 2010, Adelson said he wished he had served in the Israeli Army rather than the U.S. military—and that he hoped his young son would come back to Israel and “be a sniper for the IDF,” a reference to the Israel Defense Forces.
(YouTube video of speech link to youtube.com
“I am not Israeli. The uniform that I wore in the military, unfortunately, was not an Israeli uniform. It was an American uniform, although my wife was in the IDF and one of my daughters was in the IDF … our two little boys, one of whom will be bar mitzvahed tomorrow, hopefully he’ll come back– his hobby is shooting — and he’ll come back and be a sniper for the IDF,” Adelson said at the event.
link to firstread.msnbc.msn.com
Wow.
Those are some amazing quotes. Thats that kind of thing that enrage just about any American. The sniper bit is just disgusting.
“I am not Israeli. The uniform that I wore in the military, unfortunately, was not an Israeli uniform. It was an American uniform, although my wife was in the IDF and one of my daughters was in the IDF … our two little boys, one of whom will be bar mitzvahed tomorrow, hopefully he’ll come back– his hobby is shooting — and he’ll come back and be a sniper for the IDF,” Adelson said at the event.
“All we care about is being good Zionists, being good citizens of Israel, because even though I am not Israeli born, Israel is in my heart,” he said toward the end of his talk.
you’re not kidding it’s an amazing quote. it’s so amazing that i just learned the msn link is blacklisted at JJ.
i guess this is just more of the politically promiscuous, “open relationship” Newt. only question is, who will he do first, America or Israel ?
iamuglow say”“All we care about is being good Zionists, being good citizens of Israel, because even though I am not Israeli born, Israel is in my heart,” he said toward the end of his talk.”
But you know you are not allowed to distill it and express it succintly in word like “israeli-firster”.It is an interesting tactics that work very well for attention deficit American who has penchant for one liner. An Americans will not remeber the details .Adelson can describe all his fealty and Anti US activities in gruesome details but his tribe and beneficiaries will not allow it to be described in one word .Allowing that will generate mass consciousnes. The market has long been cornered by the Zionist who in turn sees evry activities on the part of the people questioning Israeli activitis as Antisemitism which then kindle the visceral fear and hatred among the people who cherish a greater Israel having authorities to intervene in the affairs of any of its neighbours , demnad money and arms from the West to carry that out anytime it wants , keep on building settlemnts,and asks to be recognized as an honest broker in peace process dedicated to peace in ME .
it astonishes me that US Christofascists and Israel firsters support and defend Israel up the wazoo, and will shout, cheer, and vote for candidates who pledge their fealty to Israel.
They will simultaneously decry “socialism” and “government handouts” and they despise support for gays despise abortion rights.
Do they realize that the model for Israel is socialism, that Israel supports many of its citizens with handouts, that American Jews are in the forefront of supporting gay and reproductive rights?
do the two sides of their brains ever communicate with one another?
”.It is an interesting tactics that work very well for attention deficit American who has penchant for one liner.”
Controlling the language is the best way to control how people think. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. Of course that is what Goldberg et al are really afriad of.
“I am not Israeli. The uniform that I wore in the military, unfortunately, was not an Israeli uniform. It was an American uniform” – He’s not the only one that thinks this way ,…
Los Angeles, Alta California – November 14, 2003 – (ACN) The Jewish Journal of Greater Los Angeles made a startling revelation today when writer Phil Shuman wrote, “Only some 3,000 out of 1.4 million active duty servicemen and women are Jewish, about two-tenths of one percent. When it comes to Marines, the numbers are even more startling. It’s one out of 1,000. One-tenth of one percent.”
link to jewishjournal.com
The United States Marine Corps includes just under 203,000 active duty Marines (as of October 2010) that means according to the article Jewish Journal article ‘The (Very) Few, the Proud’ there’re almost twice as much an American Jews in IDF than in US Marines.
Over 300 US Jews in IDF ,…
link to jewishjournal.com
So much for patriotism and greatefulness ,…
So much for patriotism and greatefulness ,…
The military has no idea if you are a secular Jew or not. I spent 21 years in the USAF (Religious affiliation: None).
In more recent decades, even the religious service members probably don’t want to wear ID tags that indicate any affiliation if they are subject to deployments in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, & etc.
‘secular Jew or not’ – It’s not the case of secular or not it’s the numbers . Over 2% of US population is represented by 1/1000 % in US Marines ,…
‘secular Jew or not’ – It’s not the case of secular or not it’s the numbers . Over 2% of US population is represented by 1/1000 % in US Marines ,…
Well less than 1/1oooth of the military get to serve as Assistant Commandant of the Marine Corps, Chief of Staff of the Air Force, or Head of the National Guard, but in 2008 Jews held those positions. link to forward.com
One more time. The Office of Management and Budget does not collect data on persons of Jewish ethnicity in the first place. So, your statistics are only reflecting those service members who have chosen to record a religious affiliation in their personnel records.
FYI, the DoD has been sued dozens of times for openly discriminating against Orthodox and other Jews. It only seems to care about us when one of us files a lawsuit against the Department. Orthodox Jews know that they have to destroy their careers or chances of future promotion in order to practice their religion or to fight unnecessary discrimination. See for example, Air Force Sued Over Religion link to cbsnews.com
When I was in the service, the US Air Force threatened Orthodox Jews with court-martials for wearing a yarmulke or facial hair. Goldman v. Weinberger went all the way to the US Supreme Court. Goldman was denied the right to wear a yarmulke when in uniform on the grounds that the 1st Amendment’s free exercise clause applied less strictly to the military than to ordinary citizens. Even after the Congress adopted legislation that allowed “neat and conservative” religious apparel, the Air Force continued to haggle on a case by case basis over the subjective application of its grooming standards and refused to allow Orthodox Jews to wear beards.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Last year the Army finally allowed an Orthodox Chaplain to wear a beard after a two year legal struggle and Congressional intervention, but that example doesn’t apply to service members in other military occupations. link to armytimes.com
The Draft and Universal Military Training ended with the Vietnam war. A lot of religious Jews believe that they can’t practice their faith in the US Armed Forces without suffering discrimination – and the DoD has gone to great lengths to make them feel that way. It really doesn’t have anything to do with “patriotism and greatefulness” (sic).
Alike in G. Britain,… coincident ? You can spin it anyway you want but it’s only a spin ,…
Christian – 183,000
Muslim – 305
Hindu – 230
Buddhist – 220
Sikh – 90
Jewish – 65
link to news.bbc.co.uk
You can spin it anyway you want but it’s only a spin ,…
LoL! The British Empire had Buddhist, Hindu, Muslim and Sikh subjects all along, but only officially welcomed their first Chaplains of those faiths in the 21st century? You can spin that any way you want, but it’ll probably take a while before this new found trust and comradeship actually encourages more people from non-Christian faiths to join their Armed Forces.
I’ve illustrated that Orthodox Jewish Chaplains are still fighting legal battles with our DoD in order to practice their religion in uniform. So its no surprise if they won’t bother to volunteer in greater numbers. You can spin that any way you want, but nobody has an obligation to serve in a department of the US government that discriminates against them. In any event there’s really no shortage of people serving the DoD in civilian roles, like Perle, Wolfowitz, and Feith that we’d be better off without.
BTW there are around 300 000 Brits identifying themselves as a religious Jews. The number is closer to half a million, large portion is unaccounted for because it didn’t respond to the ethnic group question in 2011 Census.
Norton Schwartz, born in 1951 supposedly wasn’t drafted and didn’t volunteered during Vietnam War, supposedly participated as a chopper crew member in an evacuation of Saigon, an AFA graduate that never flew a combat plane in action having multiple chances (Libya, Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm) a typical paper pusher at the steering wheel and a reason why people like Schwarzkopf or Petraeus (to name couple) are “retiring”, why we’re losing wars and our prestige.
You could have mention Adm. Nimitz, but he doesn’t fit your “Jewish State” über alles mold, does he ?,…
Norton Schwartz, born in 1951 supposedly wasn’t drafted and didn’t volunteered during Vietnam War, supposedly participated as a chopper crew member in an evacuation of Saigon,
What’s up with all of this “supposedly” crap? Of course he volunteered during the Vietnam war. He went into the Air Force Academy right out of high school with no idea where he would eventually be stationed – just like everyone else. BTW, people weren’t drafted into the US Air Force during the Vietnam war era.
He was serving on his first permanent assignment after graduation in a Tactical Airlift Squadron at Clark Air Base, in the Philippines when he flew those missions to help evacuate people from Saigon. FYI, he was a C-130E Hercules aircraft commander at the time and is a command pilot with more than 4,400 flying hours in various aircraft. He is not just a paper pusher.
an AFA graduate that never flew a combat plane in action having multiple chances (Libya, Grenada, Panama, Desert Storm)
No he had a half dozen assignments in Special Operations units flying AC-130 Spectre gunships, a very effective combat plane. He was actually one of Schwarzkopf’s field unit commanders during the Gulf War. He served as the Chief of one of the Joint Special Operations Task Forces during operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm.
You could have mention Adm. Nimitz, but he doesn’t fit your “Jewish State” über alles mold, does he ?,…
I could have mentioned tens of thousands of Jews who’ve served in the military since the days of Nimitz. You’re pretty clueless. The two hundred thousand Marines you mention above constitute less than 1/1000th of the US population. By adopting participation in the Corps as your benchmark, you must figure that the majority of Americans are somehow unpatriotic or ungrateful, because they’ve never joined the Marines.
I happen to be a staunch anti-Zionist. You’ve been working overtime libeling the contributions made by Jewish people who actually have served in the armed forces. You’ve obviously attempted to claim they didn’t volunteer or were only paper pushers, & etc. We get it, you enjoy saying dickish things about Jewish people.
“In any event there’s really no shortage of people serving the DoD in civilian roles, like Perle, Wolfowitz, and Feith that we’d be better off without”
That’s what I mean those bottom feeding opportunists never served in armed forces but nanaged to hijack the most influential positions in US government and enjoy to send others to do their evil job for them ,…
Can we deport him?
‘Can we deport him?’ – Not before we confiscate his fortune and his wife dump him ,…
All this prostration before the golden calf of Zionism for Jewish money and Evangelical votes
link to haaretz.com
Governor Mitt Romney said on Thursday that the Palestinians are not interested in a two-state solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict, rather that they are interested in the elimination of the State of Israel.
The leading candidate in the race to become the Republican candidate for presidency was prompted by a question posed by a Palestinian-American Republican at a CNN-sponsored debate in Jacksonville, Florida on Thursday night.
What do you think of Romney’s remarks? Visit Haaretz.com on Facebook and share your views.
“Israelis would be happy to have a two-state solution. It’s the Palestinians who don’t want a two-state solution; they want to eliminate the State of Israel,” Romney said.
Romney was responding when the man asked, “How would a Republican administration help bring peace to Palestine and Israel, when most candidates barely recognize the existence of Palestine or its people?”
Romney went on to say that “whether it’s in the political discourse that is spoken either from Fatah or from Hamas, there is a belief that the Jewish people do not have the right to have a Jewish state.”
“I believe the best way to have peace in the Middle East is not for us to vacillate and to appease, but is to say we stand with our friend Israel; we are committed to a Jewish state in Israel; we will not have an inch of difference between ourselves and our ally Israel,” he added.
Romney attacked President Barack Obama’s policy saying,”This president went before the United Nations and castigated Israel for building settlements. He said nothing about thousands of rockets being rained on Israel from the Gaza Strip.”
“This president threw Israel under the bus with regards to defining the ’67 borders as the starting point of negotiations. I think he disrespected Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Bibi Netanyahu. I think he has time and time again shown distance from Israel, and that created, in my view, a greater sense of aggression on the part of the Palestinians,” Romney added.
Former Speaker of House Newt Gingrich, who was asked to comment on his statement calling Palestinians “an invented people,” stood by his controversial remarks.
“It was technically an invention of the late 1970s,” Gingrich explained. “Prior to that they were Arabs.”
And prior to 1776 we were Englishmen.
I bet Newt would have been a Tory.A suck up to power.
“.. we were Englishman”. Speak for yourself.
There is an ancient piece of pottery found somewhere in Central Europe with “Piotr” written on in which shows that I have a right to create a state in Central Europe. Presently I am in USA but it is really hard to maintain ethnic and religious identity as piotr or even Piotr (they are pretty fascistic about insisting on capitalization of the first letter of the given name, and piotr-hatred is rampant, you should hear how their maliciously mispronounce that name).
“and piotr-hatred is rampant” – No kiddin, did you ever consider to change your attitude and conduct? After all Eastern Europe was not the only place where couldn’t capitalize using your name and got your ass kicked quite few times during the centuries ,…
Palestinians are not Arabs Newt. They are Levantines. Culturally and Linguistically Arabized. If Americans started speaking Dutch as was almost the case (or was it German) I forget, would all Americans be deemed as such? The man has sold his soul for payola.
Newt is looking for fundi votes and Jewish money
Jesus can’t touchdown and kick off the Rapture with the whore of Babylon if the Palestinians have civil rights and most of dumb red America knows that.
link to rose-publishing.com
link to youtube.com
“Palestinians are not Arabs” oh yes they are, what do you think arab means, arab has never meant arabian, the canaanites say they came from the gulf, egyptians are arabs algerians are arabs, our identity was not set 4000 years ago, “Abba Arami Obed”, from genesis i think, for the aramaic scholars amongst us. we set our identity not you, are the Khalidi’s arabs. Sadly many seem not to know what arab means, please lay of with this ignorant BS, what does Levantine mean for ffs, and how does it exclude urubiyya what does arab imply about our rights to our homes and our identity. iraqi jews are/were arabs, its not so bad i’ve never minded being one, even though i could be something else, and quite a few arabs tell i am nothing of the kind, my language skills are poor, are there any americans or are they americanized teutons etc, what does that imply. Newt can kiss my chuddies. find me a Pict or a Goth or a Hun or a Vandal before any one talks about arab levantine identity in these ahistoric terms,
“whether it’s in the political discourse that is spoken either from Fatah or from Hamas, there is a belief that the Jewish people do not have the right to have a Jewish state.”
If you attempted to establish a Jewish State here in the United States – on either a religious or ethnic basis – there would be insurmountable legal objections on the ground of either 1st Amendment “establishment” or 14th Amendment “equal protection” considerations.
The President and the Congress are creatures of the Constitution. They really have no delegated authority to do anything beyond our borders that is prohibited by that instrument. So Truman explained “We could not undertake to impose this solution on the people of Palestine by the use of American troops, both on Charter grounds and as a matter of national policy.” link to avalon.law.yale.edu
It’s too bad that his successors eventually began demanding that another nation recognize the establishment of “the Jewish State of Israel” in their own homeland while pretending to seek a peaceful solution.
this is a hugely helpful statement, Hostage
Adelson probably paid him to say exactly that. Maybe it’s just me but it sure seems that the tone and context people use when they say “Arabs” is derogatory. Similar to Israelis calling them “Pals”
There have been Levantine Arabs in Palestine for over 1,400 years. Newt’s abusing the definition base on a technicality. The term was used before the late 70s. The only reason we heard it more often was because of the occupation and all the refugees in camps outside of Israel. Israelis are an invented people though. Prior to 1948, most of them were called Polish, Russian, and German, etc.
I was looking for references to Israelis prior to 1947 and I couldn’t find any. Just fancy that !
“whether it’s in the political discourse that is spoken either from Fatah or from Hamas, there is a belief that the Jewish people do not have the right to have a Jewish state.”
Oh, do they also have the right to have it in the USA? Has a minority always the right to seperation against the will of the majority in any country? Do the Palestinians in the Galilee or the Bedouins in the Negev have the right to seperate from Israel? Is there a belief that the Bedouin people do not have the right to have a state of their own? Or are Jews more equal than equal for Romney?
If there had been a region in Palestine – let’s call it Jewsland – and the majority of it’s residents wanted seperation, because the majority of Palestinians violated their human rights, then and only then they may have had a right for seperation assuming all of the residents would have automatically become citizens of the new state.
This was in so many ways not the case in Palestine.
“It was technically an invention of the late 1970s,” Gingrich explained. “Prior to that they were Arabs.”
Do your homework Gingrich. The people of Palestine were Palestinians since the territory was detached from the Ottoman empire and formally since the Palestine Citizenship Order in the 20s.
There are some interesting articles regarding Palestine on Wide Asleep in America. The Ben Hur correction gives a clear historical basis for Palestine:
link to wideasleepinamerica.com
link to wideasleepinamerica.com
“Palestine Citizenship Order in the 20s”. which excluded about 40’000 Palestinians not actually present in the territory at the time, it was done to exclude the maximum number of arabs from citizenship and include the maximum number of colonists.
And karma had the last word, literally telling the Jews of Eastern Europe: “Sooo, you want to create a Jewish state, huh? Well, meet the Palestinians.”
Hence all the hypocrisy and shit that followed.
Glen Greenwald has a good column about this:
“The predictable aftermath of the anti-CAP smear” at
link to salon.com
thanks for the link tom, he mentioned and linked to phil in the second paragraph. and then blockquoted him.
glen’s bold.
Glen’s so wise, as long as he doesn’t get to writing good about Ron Paul, riiight?
I pity any fool who evokes the eloquent yet searing wrath of Glenn Greenwald. But here I make exceptions.
You know you’ve been reading too many books on the Nazi Era and Second World War when the first thing you think in looking at that graphic is that it must be flipped because Hitler’s part is on the wrong side…
It just ought to be remembered in talking about this what the Spencer Ackermans on this issue are effectively saying: To wit, that no matter how true it is that a jewish person puts Israel first in all things—that indeed no matter if they stand up and say “I’m an Israeli Firster!,” you cannot call them that if they are jewish because that plays into “an anti-semitic trope.”
In other words, jews have a special dispensation: One should not be able to properly, validly identify them in a certain way no matter how indisputably or even admittedly true it is.
And, it should be further noted, Ackerman is a smart guy. He knows full well this is what he’s saying. And he knows full well that it is that he believes jews simply have some superior moral status than everyone else. That, in essence, in this regard at least, he is a “Jewish Firster.”
The only thing he doesn’t say is all the other things he believes jews are entitled to as a result of their superior moral status and what other double standards that he believes jews should enjoy—with his silence of course leading to the implication that he grants none of them in his writings.
But, on the other hand, in keeping with his belief that jews simply can’t be properly identified in some ways no matter how valid, it isn’t hard to believe that, being jewish, he also sees no obligation to tell us what special dispensations he grants to jews and jewish issues in his writings either.
Gee, how nice. A journalist openly telling us that he would refuse to report accurately as to at least some people regarding some things. And all us stupid goyim are supposed not to notice any of this, ha ha ha.
“The only thing he doesn’t say is all the other things he believes jews are entitled to as a result of their superior moral status and what other double standards that he believes jews should enjoy”
link to haaretz.com
First comprehensive study in a decade also shows that 70 percent of Israelis believe the Jews are the ‘Chosen People.’
How many US Jews buy this “chosen” lark ?
“”Israel-firsters” are not those who put Israel first, but rather those who put an Israeli right-wing agenda first, even at the expense of American interests.”
Mairav Zonszein at +972 is tying himself into logical knots trying to make this into a left/right issue. Can’t there be left-wingers who put Israel’s interests ahead of American interests?
It’s about tribalism, not theories of government.
“It’s about tribalism, not theories of government.”
Yes, but let’s be kind and state that it’s about: tribalism gone amok. But then that’s the result you get when you put the tribe before humanity.
Geez, now why couldn’t the laws of the universe be clearly spelled out? Oh wait…in the beginning…
Nice picture. So now I guess the message from zionist is that any American who objects to putting or recognizes when anyone puts a foreign country’s interest ahead of our own is a Hitler on top of being anti semites. lol
The tortured logic of liberal zionist:
“Israel-firsters” are not those who put Israel first, but rather those who put an Israeli right-wing agenda first, even at the expense of American interests.
So Israel-firsters are not Israel-firsters ‘even’ if they put Israel- first, as long they advance the Israel left wing instead of the Israel right wing.
Hummm….I could dissect that but it would take too long.
The tortured logic of liberal zionist:
Exactly, and Silverstein does a number on him and his ilk:
link to richardsilverstein.com
Great point! I believe it goes much deeper than mere “tortured logic”. But yes, people like to talk down the little voice inside with their tortured logic.
I’m always suspicious about people who refuse to embrace the truth fully. In other words they always find some way to protect the idea that has proven itself indefensible.
Thanks Phil, great story. What do guys like Chris Matthews represent? How do they fit into the story?
The golden calf of Israel, is this the part in the story where moses comes down from the mountain.
Nope Moses was the first chance, Jesus was the second and the end of the line comes next.
Hitler golem?
Golem = uncultivated person.. A barbarian..
From Krakow to Krypton <— Jews and comic books:
link to books.google.no
The current supergolem is Yahoo!
He can fly (in a US built jumbo jet) and make every-one jump up and down 39 times clapping their hands.
They should be folding their hands and pray that he is not satan…
That’s why power and security are illusive fortresses that spawn more evil than good. Faith, hope and love comprise the best offense.
writers who talk about israel-firsters are creating a hitler golem?
nonsense, israel firsters themselves are creating it
by their israel can do no wrong attitude, even when the settler entity is determined to pull the u.s. into a war against iran, a conflagration which not only would endanger thousands of sailors aboard u.s. naval vessels in the strait of hormus, but risk bringing on wwiii en route to doomsday.
and as the body bags come home, knowing that israel-firsters had a lot to do with pulling america into this war, antisemitism could flare up as never before
an outcome for which israel firsters will be to blame, being that for years they’ve been preaching that israel represents not just its own jews, but all jews.
which is a lie but, alas, so ill-informed is the public about matters pertaining to the mideast conflict, how is the public to challenge the israel firsters’ claim that israel speaks for all jews?
so there , might not be any challenge
instead, not just israel firsters of whatever religious or political persuasion could be targeted by a recrudesent antisemitism, but all jewish-americans, including those jews who had tried, albeit unsuccessfully, to expose israel firsters for the traitors that they are.
so don’t blame us, israel firsters, when, as always, the truth turns out to be the opposite of what you say, with you the enemy of america & those of us who oppose you the real patriots.
Whenever a Zionist even thinks of comparing any opposition to Nazism, he should always and immediately be challenged with an itemized list of what is common to Zionism and Nazism, from their common Romantic-Prussian nationalist origin to racial supremacism, from Lebensraum “justifications” to their comntempt for human life and international law, their love of war and their common propaganda methods.
ackerman, meet Mike Godwin:
Dear Vegetarian,
You know who else was a vegetarian, don’t you?
If one goes by the rule ; ‘the first to mention hitler loses the debate’, has this piece not lost the argument at first sight.
the reason they are belching over this word is because, contrary to whatever they claim, it is relatively new in american discourse and they want it shut down. maybe they should concern themselves more with the impact of israel firsters on american discourse than the definition we afford these people.
seriously, they should grow up.
the reason they are belching over this word is because, contrary to whatever they claim, it is relatively new in american discourse and they want it shut down.
The author appears to be channeling Wilhelm Marr, who popularized the use of the term anti-semetic. So he must be a card carrying member of the ignoratti to complain about the alleged pedigree of the term Israel-firster. Goldberg displays his own brand of ignorance by trying to pull-off the claim that the membership and supporters of the America First Committee were particularly anti-semetic, e.g. Presidents John Kennedy and Gerald Ford, Peace Corps director Sargent Shriver, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart, author Gore Vidal, novelist Sinclair Lewis, poet E. E. Cummings, Alice Roosevelt Longworth, and actress Lillian Gish.
Goldberg complains about “Bashing Jews for their supposed disloyalty to their nation”, but fails to mention that we are just channeling Jacob Schiff and Louis Brandeis:
*“Speaking as an American, I cannot for a moment conceive that one can be at the same time a true American and an honest adherent of the Zionist movement.” — Banker and Philanthropist, Jacob Schiff
*“There is room here for men of any race, of any creed, of any condition in life, but not for Protestant-Americans, or Catholic-Americans or Jewish-Americans. . . . Habits of living or of thought which tend to keep alive difference of origin . . . are inconsistent with the American ideal of brotherhood, and are disloyal.” — Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis
For more details see A. T. Mason, Brandeis: A Free Man’s Life (New York, 1942), Naomi Cohen, “Reaction of Reform Judaism to Political Zionism, “Publications of the American Jewish Historical Society, 40 (1950-1951), and Joseph P. Steinstein, “Reform Judaism and Zionism, 1895-1904.” in Herzl Year Book, V.
“*“There is room here for men of any race, of any creed, of any condition in life, but not for Protestant-Americans, or Catholic-Americans or Jewish-Americans. . . . Habits of living or of thought which tend to keep alive difference of origin . . . are inconsistent with the American ideal of brotherhood, and are disloyal.” — Supreme Court Justice Louis D. Brandeis”…….Hostage
Hallelujah!!!
But if I said that a Donald or Slater would pop out and say it was anti semitic.
Or a liberal would say I was ‘insensitive’ to other identities and people had a right to self identify…whatever that means.
Or a conserative would say I am anti religion.
Well, you can’t satisfy everyone can you.
As a former logic prof, I like to spot patterns of reasoning. Here’s one:
Critic A (of Likud policies) states “X” or uses the phrase “Y”.
Past antisemites have stated “X” or used the phrase “Y”
Therefore: Critic A is an antisemite
Recall Dershowitz’s minions culling antisemitic websites to find ideas or words that Walt and Mearsheimer had stated or used. Ackerman links to an article that dredged up earlier uses by antisemites of “Israel firster” so Philip Weiss will be convinced never to use the phrase. Do I dare announce that I’m hungry? It’s surely a stock pronouncement of David Duke. My goodness, I’d be channeling David Duke!
The logical fallacy of evaluating an idea by its “pedigree” (as Ackerman put it) appears in every logic text and will be easily spotted by any freshman logic student.
omg, here’s goldberg:
nazi accusations are like the gift that keeps on giving. and where does he come up with these theories?
heavens to mergatroid.
I notice Goldberg is now allowing comments at his Atlantic blog. Is this the first time? I assume they are being heavily edited, but the general tenor is critical of Goldberg’s position.
Goldberg manages to combine a character assassination of Glenn with every hasbara talking point.
My two favorites:
*3) It is an inaccurate way to describe American Jews who support Israel and support a strong Israel-U.S. relationship. It precludes the possibility that the person who supports Israel is doing so precisely because he or she feels that it is in America’s best interest to support Israel
*The assumption among some people is that these folks aren’t even dual-loyalists, that they’re loyal only to Netanyahu. But though I’m not one of them (I’m accused almost every day of being in the tank for Obama), I think it is perfectly plausible to believe — and I’ve talked to right-wing American Jews who say exactly this — that pro-Israel Americans, Jewish or otherwise, are motivated to support Israel because they are Americans, and see in Israel a cause worth America’s effort.”
LOL..yep I am sure that Jewish and non Jewish zionist support for Israel is all because it is ‘good for America’.
And the moon is made of cheese.
Um says the guy who served in the Israeli army while maintaining his US citizenship.
Andrew Sullivan seems to be giving some credence to this slur.
“heavens to mergatroid” indeed. I posted a comment on the Josh Block thread and now find I can use it again here:
I think the term Isrsel Firster is a pretty safe one. It takes you in a different direction, one that gets quickly to the question of loyalty, not religion. The Zionists can jump and scream but the term is a long way from Jew hater.
***
And here’s Spencer Ackerman jumping and screaming about Hitler. What a stretch!
I suspect Ackerman would also object to “liberal about everything but”
It seems more and more that Zionism is intellectually exhausted. Other than repeating a few tired cliches, the most they can do is denounce their critics as anti-semites. All of their energy goes into building psuedo logical arguments linking criticism X to some historical example of real antisemitism.
It is similar to Israeli government policy. It is not guided by any sense of a strategic plan, just blundering from one contingency to another. Pushing for war against Iran is the perfect example. It makes no geopolitical sense. Israel does not have the ability to accomplish anything there other than starting a larger war. It is very difficult to see it benefiting even from that. They have simply run out of ideas.
the psychological dimension — or dementia — of zionism has got to be fully appreciated.
U of Penn professor of poli sci Ian Lustick discusses Israel’s perpetual state of PTSD here, with Hillary Leverett and Paul Pillar; and here, sponsored by Richard Silverstein, together with AIPAC’s Keith Weissman
Avigail Abarbanel has also written about Israel’s state of deliberately induced PTSD, here, ‘Israel’s Growing Insanity,’ and here, ‘Israel’s Trauma Psychology and the Attack on Gaza’
In Hollow Lands, Israel’s Architecture of Occupation, Eyal Weizman exposes the way zionists shaped Israel’s built environment to reinforce the fear factor in zionist ideology and sustain Jews in a persistent state of anxiety and threat –
ps. one more argument against heavy moderation — creating these comments is more than a cup of coffee for those of us in the anonymous blogosphere who are extremely concerned. It’s a hell of a lot of work. This comment, for example, should be a ‘sticky’ — it’s a link-rich resource for understanding a key element of the problems that must be dealt with in order to resolve I/P and to prevent an Israeli attack on Iran.
Interesting pieces teta.
Especially the psychologist Avigail Abarbanel on Israel Trauma and the Gaza Assault.
“The psychology of trauma is treacherous and filled with inner contradictions. It is precisely why the world must intervene decisively in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict: to save the Palestinians from Israel and the Israelis from themselves, and possibly spare us all a much bigger war. Without mature, assertive and clear-thinking intervention this cycle of trauma and the violence it breeds will continue until one day it will exhaust itself because enough people will have died, or a final blow will have been cast somewhere by someone, from which there will be no return”
She doesn’t seem to hold out much hope Israelis (and US zionist) will cure themselves of their self perpetuating trauma. I don’t either, you can’t change the mentalities/ways of thinking of a separatist collective group because the separateness and collective nature reinforces group thinking.
Absent some shocking event that makes them have to I don’t see any change ever coming about. Which means, as she said, if they keep on feeding on it sooner or later a point of no return will be reached.
Also absent a US President or some other world leader with the guts to intervene in Israel’s madness that point of no return could mean no return for a lot of peoples, not just Israelis.
American, we have discussed Avigail’s articles before on MW I recall – back a year or so ago (I believe it may have been PG or Dickerson who first brought her essays to my attention). I’ve been pretty much using her psychological analysis as guide on what may or may not work in dealing with a near-insane collective entity, and probably commented on that a few times along the way. great of teta to remind us all. The bottom line is that Israel is well past the point of friendly logical persuasion (per my – and others’ much worn counter-pointer to Witty, made entirely to avail). The only thing IMO that could work at this point is behavioral therapy. Hence my firm belief in BDS (the maximalist version) brought to bear by the people of the world. many would have preferred pressure from America but unfortunately that form of therapy has been neutralized.
Unfortunately, BDS will take a long time to gather enough steam to work properly. The effects are however likely to be amplified thanks to internal pressure in Israel itself. Mostly due to demographic shifts towards ever increasing orthodoxy. As israel moves further towards theocracy -with its attendant anti-democratic effects – more segments of world Jewry will be peeling off, and greater fractions of the peeled off portions will no longer find BDS so objectionable. Alas, I wish I could say things will improve for the Palestinians in the process but unfortunately the opposite is more likely to be true.
Actually a capable friend helped me worked up a mathematical expression to describe this scenario – I think it is so predictable that a quadric polynomial may do. Will perhaps unveil one of these days (ie, once we figure out the magnitude of the coefficients, no mean task, especially with Iran as a complicating factor; darn…).
I am so in sync with Avigail, she knows what she is talking about.
Everyone should read this (and teta’s links above) to understand that catering to and pacifying Israel will not work, will make it worse. They can’t be dealt with as rational in normal political ways.
link to avigailabarbanel.me.uk
“But the only way to interpret Israel’s behaviour during the past 61 years is through understanding the psychology of its society and its leaders. To ignore Israel’s psychology is dangerous because it means that any intervention based only on political considerations, will miss the mark and risk being irrelevant.”
agree, avigail arvabanel’s articles are very illuminating. might not a severance of the u.s.-israel special relationship along with forceful world intervention be just what the good psychologist has prescribed? and wouldn’t exposing the anti-americanism of israel-firsters be the most direct way of turning the public against said special relationship?
Abarbanel’s articles are always illuminating (is she back in England? I thought she was in Australia for a while). I remember when I first read Israel’s Growing Insanity. It was so dead on. And especially in her astute observation
These linguistic quibbles over “Israel-Firster” and other terms the self-proclaimed American Israel-First gatekeepers of journalistic and blogger discourse are attempting to stuff into the antisemitic girdle in order to control the discussion are, ultimately, going to have the effect Abarbanel is writing about.
I’m hearing people who intoned sotte voce not two years ago about the sanctity of our relationship with Israel now heaving with disgust at the constancy of its bitching and warmongering [Israel's push for war with Iran is sinking in] and unending ploys for attention over its imaginary security problems. These are salt of the earth people who use their computers to play Fantasy Football, not nimble urban types who crave their NYT or would blog on MW. It’s derision; however, I don’t hear antisemitic remarks. (I hear an ennui, or a complaint that congress can’t get its act together to deal with economic problems, or the crack I heard last week about ‘Hey, you notice how everybody in the movies now is Jewish?’) They’ve all had to go through raising teenagers and dealing with their dumb repetitive mistakes, hyperbolic emotions, and subsequent bad judgment calls. . . . and Israel is feeling about the same to them, a major pain in the ass. And they’re switching over to sports in the bar when Hannity or another Fox News pundit is discussing Israel in the crawls.
It’s why I say, and I could be dead wrong, but I sense something beneath the surface that could turn into an equivalent of the hatred for France at the start of the Iraq War when everyone thought Bush was telling the truth: French Fries idiotically turned into Freedom Fries. These salt of the earthers have got kids living at home because they can’t find good-paying jobs and they are worried about money, and saying things like ‘Nah, they wouldn’t be stupid enough to go to war with Iran’–said with apprehension, not assurance–which they know will devastate their pocketbooks with high gas, food, and food transportation prices. It might be the trigger that takes them over the top. Ron Paul is really popular in my neck of the woods, at the street level.
I submitted it to yo is this racist. I hope he gets to respond. Not like YITR? is an authoritative source on anything, but it’s fun.
A commenter on Ackerman’s article is proposing a phrase “Israel Favoritors”, which I have just googled and it is clean, free from compromising past, with no previous usage known to google.
““Israel Favoritors”…Eva
Brillant!!! Good work. LOL
Will a THORN by any other name, deny the truth?
let’s see, israel firster is out, hitler analagies are out (unless deployed by israel (oops) firsters, referencing the u.s.s liberty is out, mentioning the nakba (since it never happened) is taboo. what’s acceptable? anything written that’s in any way critical of israel has to receive prior approval. by whom? israel firsters, of course.
But yourstruly, my grandparents survived the Holocaust. They tried to destroy all my family and our religion. We need the state of Israel from protecting us from it ever happening again. So by criticizing it, you’re suggesting that there should be another Holocaust.
If this argument can be made in regards to any criticism, then you can’t say anything about them. If you do want to make a criticism, you have to say 4 nice things about Israel and 2 bad things about the Palestinians and neighboring Arabs in the same statement.
sorry, MLE but the state of israel just happens to be situated on the homeland of the palestinian people, who, by the way, never gave their permission for this land theft. as for protecting jews from another holocaust, what could be less safe than six million jews being situated in a tiny entity surrounded by 200 million arabs who strongly support the palestinian struggle to regain their homeland? and by the way said arabs are very angry at these nasty settlers, not because these settlers are jewish but because of how badly they treat the palestinians, so hey, if you’re seeking protection from antisemitism, since jews do so well here in america, the u.s. of a. is the place to be. what’ll it take for you to be safe in israel? working things out with the palestinians so that a society emerges in which there is equality with liberty and justice for all. best do it right away being that my country isn’t going to sponsor and protect yours forever. as for your new rule that any criticism of israel has to include 4 nice things about israel & 2 bad things about the palestinians and neighboring arabs in the same statement, will critics of, say, hamas have to reciprocate by pairing every criticism of this organization with kind words for it?
I was being sarcastic
alas, i realized it too late
But yourstruly, my grandparents survived the Holocaust. They tried to destroy all my family and our religion. We need the state of Israel from protecting us from it ever happening again. So by criticizing it, you’re suggesting that there should be another Holocaust.
No at the very best the Zionists simply moved Hitler’s intended victims to another ghetto or pickup location.
It was actually the Allied military operations in Northern Africa that spared the Jewish inhabitants of Palestine and Egypt from the Holocaust. Ever since then, they’ve been shreying that the world didn’t do enough to save them and bitching about all of the new existential threats that they’ve created for themselves. See:
*’Hitler’s holocaust plan for Jews in Palestine stopped by Desert Rats’ link to independent.co.uk
*Klaus-Michael Mallmann, Martin Cüppers, Nazi Palestine: The Plans for the Extermination of the Jews in Palestine, Enigma Books, 2009
link to books.google.com
“We need…Israel”? You forgot to add: at the expense of the Palestinians.
Lord, I hate to do this, but: What does it benefit a man who thinks he gained all the security in the world, and forfeited his soul?
Is it PTSD, or Pre-TSD? Not many actual survivors of the Shoah still alive these days.
Coming:
“Writers who ‘talk about’ Israel are Holocaust Deniers.”
That’s the kind of graphic that makes you want to run to the nearest Israeli Embassy and get your dual citizenship! But then…that’s the real goal, isn’t it?
I’m sure Zionists are comforted by the fact that they have legions of citizens pushing the Zionist agenda at the expense of their “host” (for lack of a better word) country.
No man can serve two masters: Zionism and God, and that’s where I think the deeper contradiction exists.
Oh and for those who don’t believe in God; you can replace “Humanity” for God, because even atheists can’t escape the Laws of the Universe.
I wonder who invented this ‘dual loyalty’ term ? There’s no such a thing like ‘dual loyalty’. I would like to see his/her face at the time his or her honey saying that he/she have a lover, but is still loyal to him/her ,…
Tablet sure ain’t no 972.
It’s like the Republicans accusing Democrats of class-warfare when they mention income descrepency as a destabilizing factor of American society. They can’t refute the facts and can only define and limit the words of the discussion–ignore it and it will go away. Lizard brain mentality.
That image isn’t so smart. It’s badly conceived. It could also mean that Israel-Firsters, the ones pushing for it, are Nazis.