Note Israeli flags at silent march in Paris Monday honoring Toulouse victims, from AFP
Agence France Presse PARIS:
Palestinian missions in France on Wednesday condemned the "hateful" attack two days earlier on a Jewish school in the southwestern city of Toulouse in which three children and a rabbi were killed. Palestinian diplomatic missions "condemn in the strongest possible terms the hateful attack carried out in Toulouse," a statement said.
"All racist crimes are attacks on humanity in general and on the republic in particular."
"It appears the weapon used in that massacre is the same as that used previously against three French soldiers of different origins, which leads one to suppose the killer is driven by a multifaceted racist hatred," it said.
The statement was issued in the name of the Palestine Liberation Organization, the Palestinian Authority, and Palestine's missions to France and UNESCO, which is headquartered in Paris.
In Jerusalem, the Guardian's Phoebe Greenwood was at the funeral for the four Toulouse victims (Rabbi Jonathan Sandler, his two sons, Gabriel and Arieh, and seven-year-old Miriam Monsonego). There is a tape of her report at the Guardian site:
There was a long list of very emotional speakers from both France and Israel and all have spoken with deep emotion about the shootings in Toulouse. The chief rabbi broke down in tears as he vowed that there would be vengeance for their deaths; that God will avenge their deaths. And as he wept he said our enemies shouldn't think we're weak because we cried... During his speech there were wails from the crowd."
One mourner told Greenwood that the murders would make many Jews worried about security in Europe consider moving to Israel. An Israeli woman said: "Many of the people who are thinking about moving to Israel now certainly will."
Greenwood continued, The message from the French community in Israel to the Jews of Toulouse is, "Come to Israel, your place is here now, this attack is evidence that you think you're safer in Europe, in fact you're safer here among your own people in the Jewish state, where you'll be protected."
And in a French television report, this is a quote from the president of the Consistoire Central Israélite de France (the central organization for French Jewry), Joël Mergui, speaking to BFMTV from the funeral in Jerusalem today:
Of the presumed killer, Mergui says he is not a man, but "a barbarian, a savage, an animal"
"A new page has turned in the history of our people... Here in Jerusalem I have heard the mother of two children and the wife of a rabbi crying, crying whilst saying that she had left Jerusalem believing that this could only happen in Jerusalem - attacks that target women and children savagely, and in the end this attack was perpetrated in Toulouse, in France, on our soil."
Also, there is a piece in the Forward by Robert Zaretsky, a professor at the University of Houston, blaming xenophobic statements by French leaders, including Sarkozy, for the climate in which the killer or killers functioned:
we must know what these three related acts of homicidal fury aimed at French Jews and Muslims make clear: They are two communities that, vulnerable yesterday and today to stigmatization and discrimination, have more in common than they sometimes believe. As last year’s horrific massacre in Norway reminds us, the West has no need to seek monsters abroad: We have, all too unhappily, the capacity to create our own.
“Come to Israel, your place is here now, this attack is evidence that you think you’re safer in Europe, in fact you’re safer here among your own people in the Jewish state, where you’ll be protected.”
Remember if you don’t speak Hebrew you won’t get a very nice job !
Pay your taxes to the settlers !
Move to Beit Shemesh and have the locals spit at your daughters. !
Bring your teenagers and have them indoctrinated into the IDF . They probably don’t hate Muslims now but they sure will once they’re done !
Your family may win the ultimate prize by providing a fallen soldier for Mount Herzl cemetery !
The idea that sociopaths like Liberman, Zippy , the Hebron settlers and Bibi would be “my people” would be too much for me. We never even torture farm animals in our family.
I would like to get a personal opinion from the authors. What do you personally think about what had happened there?
Brejvik murders got some many opinion pieces here- I’d be happy to get at least one on the murders of not just Jews and Muslims, but Jewish children shot in the head in pointblank range and Muslim French soldiers executed by their fellow Muslim countryman.
Please give it try at least.
The guy is claiming to be a member of Al Qaeda.
link to latimesblogs.latimes.com
Palestinian representatives have condemned the killings, Dim.
And obviously, MW is reporting on the issue since you’re responding in this thread.
His motivations are spelled out in the article above. We’ll find out more as the standoff ends.
Ok. That’s all fine and maybe true for now-but were is the condemnation or perhaps the rationalization of his acts? When Brejvik was done, so much fury and outrage had flown here, “showing” his connection with Zionism and explaining why he had done those killings.
there is no rationalizing for murders like this dimadok. why would anyone here do such a thing?
When Brejvik was done, so much fury and outrage had flown here, “showing” his connection with Zionism
well, as the story unfolded it became apparent he was an islamophobe. plus, the setting of the murder was a political camp..so it was logical it was politically motivated. but as many have pointed reports are still unfolding on these murders. no one in their right mind could justify them.
Dimadok said:
What do you mean, Dim?
Killing innocent people because of what Israel is doing to the Palestinians as the rationale? Sure, I think that rationale is bogus.
But what I think you want is something more. You want ‘us’ (anti-Zionists) to say that Israel isn’t killing innocent Palestinians intentionally OR that Israel get’s a free pass when it ENDS UP killing innocent Palestinians because it is ‘always’ collateral damage.
I think you want more ideological concessions.
In a way, I understand. You felt that the Norway serial killer’s actions demonized Zionism. That is why you were joyous that some psychiatrist in Norway found Brejvik to be a schizo. You also said that Berjvik would have preferred to hate and kill Jews but since they were much smaller in numbers in Norway – he deferred to Islamophobia instead.
I think Zionism is bad as it is, Dim. I think Zionism demonizes itself just fine without serial killers in Norway.
That’s the real answer you want, so there it is.
dimadok, this post is about political points being scored on the back of an inhuman, criminal act. I cannot even begin to comprehend the anguish of the parents of these children. What we cannot do is fall for evidently dangerous and false propaganda along the lines that ‘the Jewish people will only be safe in a Jewish homeland, protected from the Muslim/Arab menace at any cost’.
Thank you for clarifying that for me. However that is the ONLY post devoted to Toulouse killings and my comment belonged here. However should anyone take the task of writing another post with his opinion about the actual acts-I’d be happy to see that.
Dimadok,
This story just broke. Why are you coming to MW for coverage on this issue?
that is the ONLY post devoted to Toulouse killings
i wasn’t sure if we would be covering it because i wasn’t sure how it fit into the context of our coverage here. at first i found it very confusing there was a killer loose who had also targeted soldiers who happened to be muslims. so that seemed like a odd combination. then i wondered if the next victims might be catholic.. they seemed like murders possibly not connected politically. however they now have a suspect and according to some reports this is sounding political.
but as far as it being the only post, it’s still early. we only wrote 2 posts on the afghan murders, so far that is.
i read this morning some official in israel is demanding the EU rep ashton step down when she made reference to other murder of children including the norway massacre and children in syria and gaza. not sure what that was about.
Annie, about Ashton “remarks” :
Ashton: Toulouse remarks distorted
Europe’s foreign policy chief Cathy Ashton has tried to defuse a growing row with Israel over remarks interpreted as linking the killings of school children in France with deaths in Gaza.
Baroness Ashton highlighted various tragedies taking the lives of children when she addressed a Palestinian refugee youth conference in Brussels.
After being urged to resign as EU High Representative by Israel’s defence minister, she told MEPs her words had been distorted.
She prefaced a scheduled address on foreign policy to a European Parliament committee by declaring: “I want to begin by saying something that is very, very important to me because I am really saddened by the distortion of my remarks yesterday at the UNRWA (United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East) event.”
She went on: “I condemn unreservedly the terrible murders at the Ozar Hatorah school in Toulouse yesterday and extend my sympathy to the families and friends of the victims, to the people of France and to the Jewish community.
“At yesterday’s event I drew no parallel whatsoever between this tragedy and events elsewhere in the Middle East.”
Earlier Israel’s defence minister Ehud Barak insisted: “The comparison made by Ashton between what is happening in Gaza to what happened in Toulouse, and what is going on in Syria every day, is outrageous and has absolutely no grounding in reality.”
In her remarks on Monday Baroness Ashton mentioned a range of tragic events involving children, from last week’s Swiss coach crash in which 22 Belgian schoolchildren died, to the Norwegian massacre by a lone gunmen last year.
She said: “We remember young people who have been killed in all sorts of terrible circumstances – the Belgian children having lost their lives in a terrible tragedy and when we think of what happened in Toulouse today, when we remember what happened in Norway a year ago, when we know what is happening in Syria, when we see what is happening in Gaza and in different parts of the world, we remember young people and children who lose their lives.”
The issue raised immediate Israeli sensitivities because of the recent death of at least one Palestinian child in renewed conflict between Israeli forces and Gaza Strip militant groups, bringing to 13 the estimated tally of under-18s in Gaza said to have been killed by Israel forces.
Israeli foreign minister Avigdor Lieberman said Baroness Ashton’s words should be publicly retracted, while interior minister Eli Yishai said she should resign as a compromised “honest broker” in the Middle East conflict.
Before Baroness Ashton spoke out, her spokesman insisted: “In her remarks, the High Representative referred to tragedies taking the lives of children around the world and drew no parallel whatsoever between the circumstances of the Toulouse attack and the situation in Gaza.”
She was backed by Tory MEP Charles Tannock who told Baroness Ashton: “I have seen the comments in the Israeli press and read your speech and entirely agree with your statement that you were either misunderstood or unfairly misrepresented.”
Belgian MEP Annemie Neyts told her: “I was present at yesterday’s UNRWA youth conference and can confirm that Israeli foreign minister Lieberman has completely misrepresented you and was very ill-inspired in his comments.”
link to web.orange.co.uk
Very few people in europe really understand the zionist mentality as expressed by someone like Lieberman. We don’t live in the 18th century here.
Dimadok, these murders of Jews in Toulouse are making me very nervous. And my neighbors are giving me dirty looks and muttering curses ever since I got that puppy.
So where do you think a Jew like me will be safest? I mean, I don’t want to get shot, or shot at, but neither do I want to get exploded by a “rain of rocket fire”
So tell me Dimmy, where will I be safest, US, France or Israel? Don’t worry, if need be I can brush up on all my prayers and stuff, and take a quick course in the Israeli language.
Your input on this would be appreciated, thanking you in advance.
“This story just broke. Why are you coming to MW for coverage on this issue?”
‘Mondoweiss? I can’t stand that site! The information is all poison, and the stories are too short!’
how do i feel? sick inside, imagining the terror experienced by those three children, one minute feeling safe and comfortable within the confines of their school, the next minute point blank shot dead. oh that there are no more repeats of this nightmare, nowhere, never again.
thanks mig
>> What do you personally think about what had happened there?
A crime. An immoral act. A grave injustice. The perpetrator must be tried and, if found guilty, convicted. No excuses.
On a side note: I wonder when the Jewish state will halt its 60+ years, ON-GOING and offensive (i.e., not defensive) campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction and murder. No excuses.
but Jewish children shot in the head in pointblank range
any children shot in the head is horrendous, any child. gruesome. in fact we’ve had 2 other posts here quite recently about 9 such children murdered at point blank range, gunshots to the head and then their bodies burned. for anyone who missed these threads if you’d like to express how abhorrent it is for you here they are:
link to mondoweiss.net
link to mondoweiss.net
Only a psychopath would murder children by shooting them at point-blank range in the head.
I won’t entertain what you were trying to go for, dimadok. But I will say this: Anytime an event like this happens, I really wish people would question everything and see if it all added up. To me, it does not. I know many of you don’t believe it, but Al Qaeda is an ambiguous entity which has been proven on several occasions to not exist as we have been told. The BBC did a report on this. It is a Western-invented blanket term for ‘terrorist.’ In this guy’s case he has a questionable back story, was under surveillance for a months, was supposedly dirt-poor yet had two flats, a motorcycle, and a weapons cache.
He is Algerian and killed soldiers (who were also Muslim) and he hunted down the victims at the Jewish school including the children. Pre-meditated murder. The MSM claims he did it because of Palestinian children, yet any monster who murders like this doesn’t care about anybody. Not Palestinians. Obviously not children. And Palestinians want nothing to do with this.
The timing of the election in France, the Syria thing and France’s connection to Syria, the Iran rhetoric, and the fact that all of this distracts the public from the I/P situation. IMHO, this guy was a trained psychopathic assassin. He took care of military and civilian targets. Pre-meditated. Hunted down. Point blank range. All on a motorcycle. Originally they said Neo-Nazis, now it’s an Al Qaeda asset. IMHO, there is more to this story than we will ever be told the same with ‘lone wolf’ Breivik.
Human beings are not capable of committing such acts of violence. I know it’s frowned on here, but I blame the corrupted intelligence network. I have reason to believe it is corrupted. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, but I’ve seen enough strange anomalies and MSM lies to believe that things are not as they seem. The real terrorists of the world are in the shadows.
@Dimadok
Let’s compare your response here in this discussion to your response to the Norway serial murders:
link to mondoweiss.net
link to mondoweiss.net
link to mondoweiss.net
link to mondoweiss.net
—————————–
SOOOOO! To conclude:
You were quick to absolve the Norway serial killer’s political motivations of their connection to Zionism when he was diagnosed as being schizo.
It had nothing to do w/ his other political beliefs. It was simply his support for Israel and Zionism that compelled you so urgently to absolve him.
Then you brought up Russia or something. This was an attempt to muddy the water. But all it means is that the guy admired Putin AND Zionism/Israel among other things. Big deal!
The third quote of yours talks about how the Norway killer was simply anti-social and xenophobic. Yet, he singled out Muslims. You actually dismiss the profundity of his Islamophobia by proposing that he hates Jews more but there simply weren’t enough of them around for him to be anti-Jewish immigration!
Here again, you dismiss his political motivations even though the guy took a lot of time and care to spell it all out.
And finally, you make sure we know that Israeli politicians condemned the Norway killings.
Now, I want you to acknowledge that Palestinian politicians have condemned these killings in France.
Oh and to put the icing on the cake, let’s resort to the typical Zionist meme of counting corpses.
In Norway, the serial murderer killed 77 people and injured 151! That’s far more than what happened in France! So stop whining and singling out France!
Cliff, you actually went to the archives, and are looking for some kind of consistency between what Dimadok said yesterday, and what he says today?
Cliff, I’ve never seen anything so anti-semantic!
Good job, BTW.
@cliff: You have said “Palestinian representatives have condemned the killings” and then you said “Palestinian politicians have condemned these killings in France”. I have seen some good words from the moderate Salaam Fayyad but nothing from Hamas, Isjamic Jihad and the governments across the Arab world.Where are the condemnations from the extremists who have been using their complaints against Israel as justification for crimes as horrible as those in Toulouse for decades?
Sorry Mayhem, I mist have missed the condemnations of the massacre from Lieberman, Shas and the right wing in Israel. In fact, what I do remember were screeds from Israeli fanatics supporting and defending Breivik’s actions and either justified or understandable
@Shingo; You use the tactic if throwing up a smoke screen of crap when you cannot counter an assertion that splits your case apart, For your information Israel Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman was “deeply shocked”. I am seeing any sympathy from you, just belligerence.
In fact, what I do remember were screeds from Israeli fanatics supporting and defending Breivik’s actions and either justified or understandable
That’s not correct, shingo, I think that is really a step to far. Correct is, the culture-clash-promoters initially tried to pin it on Islamist networks, while it was exactly the other way round that Islamphobes inspired the deed.
Shingo isn’t being far-fetched.
Check out the early articles about the Norway massacre over at YNet or Haaretz.
Granted, Zionist commentators are generally obscene and hateful and all-around horrible at those two websites – this was especially awful.
They were happy that ‘the Leftists’ got what was coming to them.
Sympathy?
Why does Shingo have to express sympathy TO YOU? That is what you want.
You feel a sense of entitlement regarding this tragedy.
I can feel sympathy for the killing of these innocent children without having to legitimize Zionism or the on-going colonization of Palestinian land.
That is what you really take issue with.
You’re the same person who said a Palestinian children’s art exhibit was propaganda.
So cut the b.s.
Gideon Levy:
Israel must never be compared to anything else – not to apartheid and not to other oppressors of freedom around the world, not to other occupation regimes and not to other colonialism. We’re always something else. The children of Sderot must not be compared to the children of Gaza, the children of Toulouse must not be compared to other children who are slaughtered elsewhere in nationalist hate crimes.
Our children are different, not only to us – that’s natural. But they must be different to the whole world. That’s our uncompromising demand. Neither must the Palestinian struggle be compared to any other fight for liberation elsewhere around the world. Anyone who dares compare Israel to anything else – their fate is sealed.
The Ashton mini-storm will be forgotten in a day. Israel will celebrate another minuscule victory, but the residue will build up. It wasn’t Ashton who lost her senses, but rather Israel, which is playing the role of the eternally offended party, once again seen in a maudlin light. And this happened just as the world was responding compassionately to the victims and was remarkably empathetic toward Israel.
link to haaretz.com
They were happy that ‘the Leftists’ got what was coming to them.
Ok, the moment read comments like that, I immediately flee comment sections of places I do not know well, I admit. They also seem the ones that immediately catch my attention.
So, sorry Shingo, maybe my attempt to sit on the fence is ultimately doomed, since this type usually blindly supports power. Which I desperately hope won’t win nevertheless; against better knowledge, that is. My workroom urgently needs a thorough clean-up operation anyway. So you’ll finally rid of me and my idle chatter, anyway.
Nothing you are suggesting splits my case apart.
Even if Lieberman said he was “deeply shocked”, that’s not a statement of sympathy by any means .
I have enormous sympathy for the victims and their community in France. I have none for Israel because nothing was done to Israel.
You’re every bit as cynical as Netenyahu.
I haven’t you express any sumpathy for the vecyims BTW. You could care less about the victims, you’re only concerned about how this tragedy can be exploited to Israel’s advantage.
there’s a really good post i highly recommend
link to frustratedarab.com
Annie,
That is a very true quote, unfortunately.
However, when someone says they are doing something in the name of a religion or ideology it then brings legitimate scrutiny on that belief system and other adherents are obligated to clarify, as has been the case thankfully from, for example, Fayyad who said that killing children in the name of Palestine is a disgrace.
Things done in the name of Islam, Judaism, Zionism, The American Way, all bring legitimate scrutiny to those categories.
absolutely grotesque what has been done. one of the oddities about this case is that french authorities had put in place special security measures to secure potential ‘jewish’ targets of terrorist/racist violence, apparently managed by f*cking incompetents given the recent attacks on other minorities in toulouse, allegedly by the same perpetrator.
from le monde of yesterday:
LE MINISTRE de l’intérieur, Claude Guéant, a demandé que soient renforcées les mesures de sécurité aux abords des écoles juives, lundi 19 mars au matin, immédiatement après la fusillade qui a fait quatre morts devant un collège-lycée juif de Toulouse. Depuis 2005, dans la foulée de la flambée d’actes antisémites du début des années 2000, le gouvernement a lancé un plan de sécurisation des bâtiments de la communauté juive. Il s’agissait de protéger l’accès et les alentours des synagogues, des écoles, des crèches ou d’associations communautaires sur l’ensemble du territoire en installant des grillages, des barrières, des caméras de surveillance, des systèmes d’alarme ou des portes blindées . . .
sorry, had the whole article up yesterday, but it’s now only available to subscribers.
“en installant des grillages, des barrières, des caméras de surveillance, des systèmes d’alarme ou des portes blindées . . .”
What happened to liberté, égalité, fraternité ?
i like that seafoid. has a nice ring to it in these times. grillage, surveillance, portes blindées doesn’t rhyme quite as well as liberte, etc. but we’re turning into collective illiterates anyway.
and this from le monde:
Selon des sources policières à la direction centrale du renseignement intérieur (DCRI) le suspect est un terroriste confirmé qui aurait été formellement confondu pour son rôle dans les trois attentats, mardi. Il a effectué plusieurs séjours en Afghanistan et au Pakistan, dans des camps d’entraînement d’Al-Qaida, notamment dans la région de Kandahar où il aurait été arrêté, fin 2010, par les autorités pakistanaises, pour des faits de droit commun. D’obédience salafiste, il appartiendrait à l’une des branches les plus radicales de l’islamisme combattant. Il aurait effectué au moins deux voyages dans la zone frontalière pakistano-afghane, en 2010 et en 2011. Cette année-là, au retour de son dernier séjour, il aurait été repéré par les services de la DCRI. “Il fait partie des profils que nous surveillons, a indiqué au Monde une source du renseignement intérieur. Nous l’avions dans le collimateur.” Toujours selon cette source, l’homme avait été ciblé parmi d’autres suspects, au lendemain de l’attaque contre les trois parachutistes de Montauban.
so this guy has been under surveillance apparently for years, flying in and out of pakistan and afghanistan, training in al-queda camps in kandahar, and was suspected of involvement in the previous attack against french paratroopers, and what . . .? this is beyond words. sarkozy’s head should be on a pike.
Sarko was always more about image than substance.
One thing I was thinking about Afghan-Pak. When the Taliban take over again there could be a lot of footsoldiers returning home to the Middle East and a few to Europe. I was in Bombay when the Taj Hotel was occupied by some of these guys and they destroyed the local police. In places like Waziristan they kick the ass of anyone who tries to dislodge them.
Israel really should patch it up with the Palestinians pronto because the next wave of Fedayeen, version 2.0 , will be a very different challenge. And remember the Israelis haven’t been anywhere other than turkey shooting at Gaza recently.
Afghan Officials Deny French Suspect Escaped Their Prison
KABUL, Afghanistan — Countering reports that the suspect in seven killings in France was one of hundreds of men who escaped from an Afghan prison in 2008, Afghan officials said Wednesday that a man by the same name had indeed escaped then, but was a citizen of Afghanistan, not France.
The suspect has been identified in French media reports as Mohammad Merah. The Afghan authorities said that a Mohammad Merah was arrested on Dec. 19, 2007, and convicted of planting bombs in and around the southern city of Kandahar, which is the area where the Taliban movement began.
“All I can say is that we have this guy Mohammed Merah in our records, but he’s an Afghan citizen,” said Brig. Gen. Abdul Raziq, the police chief of Kandahar Province. “He’s certainly not French.”
He was sent to serve his three-year sentence at the city’s Saraposa prison, said Ghulam Faruq, the chief of the detention facility, citing prison records. That is a high-security prison on Kandahar’s southern outskirts.
“We have this name in our book,” Mr. Faruq said. “He was registered in 2007 and he was brought to the prison and he was convicted for planting bombs and I.E.D.’s inside and outside Kandahar city.”
A spokesman for the government of Kandahar Province, Zalmai Ayoubi, said that the man was from Kandahar and that officials even knew his father’s name — Ahmad Shah, also a citizen of Afghanistan.
The Afghan Mr. Merah escaped on June 13, 2008, when a Taliban fighter drove a fuel tanker to the gates of Saraposa, jumped out, dodged a few bullets fired by the prison guards, and then from a distance launched a rocket-propelled grenade into his vehicle. The enormous explosion killed the guards and blew a huge hole in the prison’s walls, allowing about 900 prisoners to escape.
Officials said at the time that about 350 of the escapees were Taliban or allied insurgents, and Mr. Faruq said on Wednesday that Mr. Merah was among them.
The prison break was one of the worst breaches of security in Afghanistan since 2001, when American forces helped oust the Taliban.
link to nytimes.com
When this heinous crime occurred the first suspicions were that it had been committed by right wing elements. There was no finger pointing or hounding of Muslims.
Every day you turn on your TV or radio your will hear news items about Muslims killing both Muslims and non-Muslims. What should the casual observer make of all this?
Your islamophobia is not so subtle, mayhem.
But let us take your (un)logic one step further: how come sooooo many terrorists are of the male gender? Surely this means ALL men should be regarded as violent killers – assholes at best.
@taxi: your evasiveness and bluster is not subtle. You are willing to ignore facts that are staring you straight in the fsce because it suits your political agenda.
The facts Mayhem, are that a vicious psychopath/ terrorist/ whatever killed some innocent Jewish school children. The fact is the State of Israel does this also to Palestines and to Palestine children–on purpose, not as an accident.
The sympathy here belongs only to the families, not to Israel.
That we’re civilized and they are bloodthirsty fanatics, even the ones who are killed themselves. Because obviously that’s what you think.
And every day you turn on your TV or radio your will hear news items about Israel killing Palestinians.
Right now they are doing it in Syria with weapons supplied by Israel.
Mayhem :
Right, because few days earlier, evidently same shooter killed north-african origin French army soldiers. They were muslims.
That casual observer takes notion only news where muslims kill. I guess that you haven’t heard places like Iraq, Afganistan and Libya. Where non-muslims kill muslims day by day.
And if casual observer kindly look these videos :
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
link to youtube.com
But i guess you get same information from TV & Radio….
“The chief rabbi broke down in tears as he vowed that there would be vengeance for their deaths; that God will avenge their deaths. ”
I think it’s time Israeli Jews gave up on vengeance. It doesn’t make anyone safer.
Vengeance brought the US the war in Afghanistan and the failure in Iraq and $3 trillion in debt.
One mourner told Greenwood that the murders would make many Jews worried about security in Europe consider moving to Israel. An Israeli woman said: “Many of the people who are thinking about moving to Israel now certainly will.”
Eleanor, since you clarified that your goal was to show how political hay was being made out of the murders, I’d add that the quote above is standard Israeli thinking. During the 2nd Intifada, in the worst days of violence against Israeli citizens, Israeli news broadcasts led with reports of anti-Semitic outrages in Europe. One of Zionism’s tenets is that the Jews are not safe anywhere but in the State of Israel. If things are bad in Israel, then a priori, things are worse elsewhere.
The belief does not need a rationale to justify it, just an event to hook it on. The murders in Toulouse will do nicely.
On your caption, drawing our attention to those two Israeli flags in the crowd (held by the same person/family?) – I understand what you are getting at here, and yes, of course that’s true. But remember, the teacher who was murdered was Israeli. If an American were murdered in a foreign country and there was a rally in his memory, you would expect to see some stars and stripes out there too.
From that image you showed, the rally looks remarkably dignified and notably flag-less.
So, I think you missed the mark with that note in the caption.
That’s exactly what they want. That is how Zionism has always worked, viz they incite anti-Semitism and then they present themselves as the “saviors”and claiming Israel is the only place Jews can be “safe”.
“Israel is the only place Jews can be “safe”.
And when you have moved there, and probably, unless you are pretty damned affluent, don’t have an easy way back, they break it to you: “Israel is surronded by enemies! 22 countries full of Arabs ready to cut your throat, and Israeli Arabs you can’t trust. What, somebody told you it was safe here. I’m sorry you were misinformed…look, it’s raining rockets!”
That’s the kind of cheap protection racket I never thought anybody would fall for unless they were suffering from what you might call an ‘historical PTSD’ or something. But of course, every therapist and counsler will tell you that conditions of extreme mental stress and brutalisation is the best time to make life-changing decisions. And they’ll also tell you that once you have committed yourself to a course under that kind of stress and confusion, you are of course obligated to stick to it. Isn’t that what all the mental health experts say? So easy to see the Zionists have the best interests of Jews at heart, huh?
“they incite anti-Semitism”
Oh, there’s probably enough of that going around without any help from Zionists. I’m sure they don’t necessarily need to incite it. But the idea that because anti-Semitism exists, Zionism is the answer is a tough one to swallow.
Elliot
The teacher wasn’t Israeli. The Israeli National Insurance Institute disgraced itself
again
link to haaretz.com
” Meanwhile, Israel’s National Insurance Institute bowed to public pressure and Tuesday announced that the NII had reversed its decision not to pay for the transportation of Sandler’s body and his burial in Israel on the grounds that he was not an Israeli citizen. Sandler’s wife is Israeli, as are his children who were killed in the shooting.”
Also from the same article
“MK Danny Danon (Likud ) said at the committee meeting that he would work toward parliamentary legislation worldwide to impose the death penalty on murder in an anti-Semitic context. ”
Does Israel execute Jewish murderers of Jews ?
Zionism is for the birds.
Elliot, you make a valid point. However, the presence of Israeli flags at such a march and in this political climate can take on a greater significance, so it is worthy of remark. The same could be said for stars and stripes in a particular context.
The march seems to have been organised on the initiative of l’Union des étudiants juifs de France (UEJF) and, inevitably attracted a crowd of the Ligue de défense juive (LDJ). According to this write-up “Les drapeaux français côtoyaient les drapeaux israéliens”, which suggests there was more than one family holding a couple of blue and white flags. (Une marche silencieuse). All that said, it does seem to have been a very dignified, moving occasion.
“… The same could be said for stars and stripes in a particular context.
… All that said, it does seem to have been a very dignified, moving occasion.”
Furkan Dogan didn’t get no stars and stripes and Obama didn’t fly to Istanbul for condolences and campaign photos.
Eleanor, there’s nothing dignified in a foreign flag being flown in a country other than over the foreign country’s embassy. If the marchers wanted a dignified and solemn march, they would have gone to the holocaust memorial but going instead to the Bastille and stopping by the Kahanists hangout and creating a stir there showed that it was politically motivated.
There is nothing dignified in using this sad episode to hustle some immigrants to go to Israel to help with its demographic problems.
When Pope John Paul II died, St. Peters square looked like Poland had won the Vatican’s soccer campionship.
Similarly, Benedict brought the Germans out in force.
Israelis were murdered in a terrorist attack in a foreign country and two – just two – Israeli flags were spotted in a crowd of thousands.
There are plenty of worthy targets. This isn’t one of them.
Personally, I don’t care for any flags, but apparently others do. I’m cool with that.
More images of the march here: Photos : marche à Paris en hommage aux victimes de Toulouse
“Le cortège, composé de nombreux jeunes qui brandissent drapeaux français et israéliens, se met en branle. Direction la place de la Bastille…. Après quelques mètres parcourus, le cortège stoppe net et voit plusieurs dizaines de jeunes de la Ligue de défense juive passer devant l’Union des étudiants juifs de France, qui menait jusqu’alors le cortège. La marche silencieuse se transforme alors en course bruyante et en démonstration de force de la part du mouvement extrémiste, formant un cordon en tête du défilé, coudes serrés les uns aux autres. A mi-chemin, le calme revient et les marcheurs poursuivent leur avancée vers la place de la Bastille qui porte encore les marques rouges du grand rassemblement du Front de Gauche.”
I watched the video, and to the extent that it gives a quick sketch of the rally, it certainly supports my point: a couple of <de rigeurKach flags, several Israeli flags and many banners and placards of the French Jewish students union, other organizations.
There were likely many more Israeli citizens in the crowd than Israeli flags.
Also, appropriately, were Jewish symbols of mourning: skullcaps worn specially for the occasion and the lighting of candles.
A perfectly respectable and appropriate vigil.
Given that the family was Israeli the flags were not out of place.
I thought the Palestinian text above was the most dignified of all. Everyone deserves the same rights. Calls for vengeance are pathetic.
Eleanor, une marche silencieuse en hommage aux victimes ou plutôt une manifestation bruyante dirigée par un mouvement extrémiste Kahaniste avec drapeaux d’un pays étranger et affiches et banderoles à caractère politique et vocation électorale?
As shocking as this story is I cannot help but think of all the Palestinian children who have died at the hands of their oppressors and never a mention in any media as if their short tragic lives and fate were immaterial.
The bodies are barely buried in France and Bibi Netanyahu is using their blood to write his own prescription for reducing anti-Semitism: end the criticism of Israel. Hear that, mondoweiss, organizers of the one-state conference at Harvard and BDS at Penn? It’s your fault. “We must fight the extraordinary propaganda against innocent Israelis and Jews everywhere, that leads these people to commit such barbaric acts.” link to haaretz.com
Maybe we can make it illegal to accuse Israel of criminal behavior.
I think there’s a good PhD worth of material on the subject of Zionist conceptions of barbarism.
For Dimadok’s sake and to avoid any disappointments for him, I’m saying here that the killing of these innocent Jewish civilians in Toulouse is awful and I hope the killer gets caught and punished for it.
But I also have to add that I find Israeli and French politicians milking this sad event obscene and they should be ashamed of themselves. Their theatrics can only invite other crazies to commit similarly horrible acts.
… Ayoub Asaliya was on his way to school last Sunday, but there’s no political capital to be gained by Sarkozy or François Hollande because of it.
“I hope the killer gets caught and punished for it”.
He deserves imprisonment.
France won’t demolish his family’s house, Walid.
Neither is France likely to wipe out his family with a missile attack.
So it’s defintely not the same as Israel.
Here here Walid,
I am sickened, digusted, and heart broken by this outrage for a number of reasons.
First and foremost, because innocents were killed, especially children. This murdered was a coward and a discrace to humanity.
Secondly, because this outrage does nothing but hurt Palestinians and Muslims. Who the fuck does this evil man think he is perpetrating this act to avenge anyone? What did Jews have to do with the violence in Algeria? What on earth does think this will do to avenge anyone, let along help the plight of Muslims or Algerians?
On a side issue, I don’t recall seeing headlines when the Muslim soldiers were shot.
RoHa, i didn’t recall it either but right after hearing about the murders at the jewish school and the previous murders i googled ‘france soldiers killed’ and there were many reports although the hate crime aspect was buried. here’s one
link to nytimes.com
Horrendous crimes. Anyone noticing how our MSM is making the insanity case for the American soldier who allegedly massacred the 16 people (9 children in Afghanistan). Our MSM has once again dehumanized the murdered individuals in Afghanistan
“One mourner told Greenwood that the murders would make many Jews worried about security in Europe consider moving to Israel.”
I don’t know who disgusts me more. Someone who kills innocents, or someone who uses the deaths for the political agenda of a foreign country with a racist concept of citizenship.
By the way, I read that the four Jews were buried in Jerusalem. Was that their personal wish, or some publicity stunt? I imagine as citizens of France, they would have wanted to be buried there?
“By the way, I read that the four Jews were buried in Jerusalem. Was that their personal wish, or some publicity stunt? I imagine as citizens of France, they would have wanted to be buried there?”
Sounds like a publicity stunt to me. Are the parents of the dead children going to move to Israel to be near their childrens graves?
their mother is israeli, so it seems perfectly natural to me she would want her children buried there.
JP
I think they were all dual nationals, Israeli-French. Merah may have deliberately picked Israeli nationals in the same way he deliberately picked Muslims who served in the French Army.
Thanks both Annie (above) and Bumblebye, I didn’t know of the dual citizenship. And of course, on is free to get buried wherever one pleases. I just thought it was a little suspicious, given the Israeli government’s hunger for publicity stunts.
Mondo writes:
“The murders of four Jews outside a Jewish school in Toulouse, France, Monday are having reverberations among Israelis and Palestinians.”
Could you please mention tha the murders of thouse four persons are part of a larger killing spree? Not all victims have been Jews, so it would be dishonest to frame this simply as a “innocent Jews are dead!”-story.
It’s like when Gabriele Giffords was injured, everybody talked about her and few mentioned that there were several other dead(!) victims, among them a US judge.
“and few mentioned that there were several other dead(!) victims, among them a US judge”
And a 12 year girl was killed. But I didn’t hear the politicians talking about her.