A lot of folks have been talking about Texas congressman Louie Gohmert’s staggering speech on the House floor last week saying that Barack Hussein Obama has created another Ottoman Empire through his failures in the Middle East.
I happened to watch Gohmert’s speech and was struck by his characterization of US Israel policy, and also of Zionism’s goals. Note two things in this speech. First, the resonance of the Democratic floor uprising over the Jerusalem plank in the platform– the fat is in the fire! And note that Israeli founder, the Labor Zionist Ben Gurion, is citing the bible in Netanyahu’s rendering. So Zionism has a religious claim to it, always; and I thought we wanted fundamentalists out of our politics! Gohmert:
Look what he has helped do in the Middle East. It’s a new Ottoman Empire. Thank you, President Barack Hussein Obama. This will be quite a legacy for you. I’m not one of those who says [Obama] is not a Christian. All I know is that’s between him and God. What I do know is he has helped jump-start a new Ottoman Empire and left our friend and ally Israel so vulnerable in this sea of radicalism that he has helped bring to the surface…
this administration thinks both the Occupy movement and the Arab Spring are a great thing, even though it’s brought to power radicals who want to destroy America, who want to destroy Israel. How frustrating for our friend Israel….
We were told during the conventions that the Republicans do not have a franchise on God. Everybody at the Democratic convention was saying, We love God; we worship God; we love Israel; we like Jerusalem as a capital. We heard all this stuff until there was a vote, and, holy cow, we saw plain and clear that everybody in the Democratic convention does not want God mentioned. They don’t want to hear about God. They don’t want to hear about Jerusalem being the capital of Israel. They don’t want it. They apparently side more with the Palestinians than they do those who were possessing and in that land 1,600 years before there was a man ever talked about named Muhammad is all you can figure. King David was there in Hebron, which now we’re told, Oh, do the Israelis have history in this land? It’s where David ruled for 7 years, about 16 to 17 centuries before anybody had ever heard of Muhammad. How would they not have a history in that land?
I was talking to Prime Minister Netanyahu about the history in the land. He mentioned the story of Ben-Gurion, who led the ragtag forces to fight their way back to Jerusalem after overwhelming forces had driven them out. The story was–and this was the first I had heard it, was when the Prime Minister mentioned it to me, but I’ve heard it a number of times since. He said Ben Gurion was challenged with, What is your voucher for claiming this land? And Prime Minister Netanyahu used the word, “Bible.” I’m sure it was a Torah. He said that Ben Gurion held up a Bible and yelled, This is my voucher.
Do they have a history in the land? How blind do you have to be to not see it?
The more that religious Zionists are provided with a platform to espouse their bizarre cult views, the more they reduce Zionism and Judaism to utter claptrap, superstition and nonsense.
Louis Gohmert’s rambling, fact-free and logic-free thoughts are a perfect illustration of the problem. In some ways, even Scientologists are able to make more sense than Gohmert, Robertson, Brog, Hagee, Huckabee, Bachmann, etc.
Gohmert is actually a religious zealot, very simple minded. I signed up for his congressional office e mail messages for a while after one speech he gave that caught my attention just to keep up with and see how much of a nut this guy was…. his stuff was crazy drivel.
What is interesting is, according to the US census done on religious affiliation, church and religious affiliations and identifying have and are going down in the US overall…fewer people involved in any religion.
So what this religious fetish and accentuating in government, elections and politicians means is that the ‘fringes”, those firmly attached to a religion are the ones running for office and being voted in.
Probably due to the same game politicians play on other niches….singling out one niche or the niche you belong to and counting on their support and contributions to get in office.
So totally against all the warnings and ideas of the founders on keeping religious persuasions out of actual government policy that was part of the reason of separation of church and state.
These f’ing primitives take us backwards every day.
A century ago Judaism was not about “vouchers.” Since the rise of Zionism, many of my fellow Jews can’t seem to tell the difference, constantly conflating Israel with Jewishness, prescribing Birthright tours as the elixir to prevent estrangement of our youth, who are fed a diet of pro-Israel B.S. and endless Holocaust memorialization. No wonder they’re estranged. And even the rabbis of the mainstream movements cannot bring themselves to criticize Israel, the “Jewish state” — as if all of us were in agreement about the aims of this country. At some point we’ll all have to ask ourselves if Judaism can survive — has survived — Zionism. I don’t want to belong to a “voucher-based” religion that believes in real estate deeds more than justice.
thanks bob, great comment. i think netanyahu is good for american jewry that way
Voucher is just another word for entitlement. Paul Ryan could be roped in to end Jewish entitlements .
The Muslim Brotherhood is a monolithic and a deeply homophobic, misogynic force.
It’s a mendacious development.
But it was also created in 1929.
As far as I know, even birthers admit that Obama wasn’t born back then(whichever country you prefer).
Obama is at once an amateur, a dimwit who is failing at everything, yet he is a superhuman shaping all the world’s events (as long as those events are bad, in the eyes of the GOP) when it suits them.
These things just shows more of the typical Republican schizophrenia, hypercharged.
(Addendum: I wouldn’t be surprised at all if the anecdote about Ben-Gurion was actually true. He was a lot nuttier than a lot of people really know about).
I read as far as “The Muslim Brotherhood is a monolithic …” Nothing serious can follow those six words.
Krauss says: “The Muslim Brotherhood is a monolithic and a deeply homophobic, misogynic force.
It’s a mendacious development…”
I’d be inclined to argue — but I don’t really know enough to do so.
However, regardless of how you categorize it, it may be the best game in town. Particularly if it can be kept as a matter of the Islamic Brotherhood compromising with and justifying itself in the eyes of its secular rivals rather than with its more fundamentalist rivals, I think it may be the best hope for Egypt.
@Krauss,
The Muslim Brotherhood is a monolithic and a deeply homophobic, misogynic force. It’s a mendacious development.
Krauss, c’mon. It was a group of professionals (lawyers, doctors, engineers, etc) formed originally to counter the effects of British colonialism in Egypt. Their original name ended in Muslim Brothers. The moniker Muslim Brotherhood followed. They’ve formed a counterweight to prevailing political parties ever since.
It’s still a group of professionals, including architects, scientists, doctors, lawyers, planners, and the like. Islam doesn’t have a priestcraft like Christianity or Judaism. Their teachers are scholars and educators. The prophet Mohammad stressed education and knowledge in all fields of endeavor, which is why Muslims created the first university (Al-Azhar, Cairo) still operating after more than 1,000 years, and why American surgeons use Islamic tools in the operating room every day. Today.
The demonization of Islam in America based on no research is only exceeded by the profound ignorance and stupidity of Americans to learn no history older than 60 years.
Do you have equally hyperbolic things to say about groups with the words Jewish and Council in their names?
Them Muslims really oughta lighten up. Heck, it’s just a book and that guy in the movie is just a guy. What’s that you say about the Bible? Bite your tongue, blasphemer! This here’s the Holy Word of Gawd Almighty! Taking the name of the Lord in vain, you say? Am not! I should be stoned (If I’m not already)? Savage!
>> It’s where David ruled for 7 years …
That’s it? I’m pretty sure the Ottoman Empire was around for more than 7 years. So much for David.
RE: “Barack Hussein Obama has created another Ottoman
Empire” ~ Rep. Louie Gohmert
MY COMMENT: This is apparently Gomert’s way of trying to flog the “second caliphate” notion. I guess there’s no fundie quite like a Texas fundie!
Gohment must surely be one of the dimmest bulbs in the Congress. And that’s really saying something when it comes from someone residing in Georgia!
FROM WIKIPEDIA [Louie Gohmert]:
P.S. • Richard Dawkins versus Young Earth Creationist Politician [VIDEO, 04:18] – link to youtube.com
So what was wrong with the Ottoman Empire? Kind of a shortage of Christian children these days, but otherwise…
I think the heir is still alive. Lessee…
Yep.
link to en.wikipedia.org
Of course, he’s eighty two and without issue. Perhaps not the best choice…
However, there are plenty of alternates — and the House of Osman was never all that rigid about primogeniture. I’m sure we can work something out.
Offhand, this one sounds okay:
“Orhan Murad Osmanoğlu (H.I.H. Prince (Şehzade) Orhan Murad Efendi)[10][11][12][13][14][15][16] born in Henley-on-Thames, Oxon, England on 26 December 1972, eldest son of H.I.H. Prince (Şehzade) Osman Selaheddin Osmanoğlu and his wife H.H. Athena Joy Hanımefendi. (b. at London, 9 March 1944), née, Christoforides. He is the great-great-great-grand-son of H.I.M. Sultan Murad V, 33rd Sovereign of the House of Osman through his grandfather H.I.H. Prince (Şehzade) Ali Vasıb Efendi, 41st Head of the Imperial House of Osman, and also the great-great-grand-son of H.I.M. Sultan Mehmed V Reşad Han Gazi, 35th Sovereign of the House of Osman, through his grandmother H.I.H. Princess Emine Mükbile Sultan. His father H.I.H. Prince (Şehzade) Osman Selaheddin Efendi, is the only Ottoman prince whose parents are both descendants of the Imperial Ottoman dynasty. educ. Degree in Business and Economics at Kingston University.
Prince Orhan married on 17 February 2000, H.H. Patricia Emine Hanımefendi née, Iotti, and has issue, two sons:
H.I.H. Prince (Şehzade) Turan Cem Efendi. b. at High Wycombe, England, 7 January 2004.
H.I.H. Prince (Şehzade) Tamer Nihad Efendi. b. at High Wycombe, England, 15 April 2006.
H.I.H. Prince (Şehzade) Orhan Murad Efendi lives in Buckinghamshire with his family, and works for a property investment and development company.”
Perhaps the good congressman could get on it. I’m picturing something like the British Commonwealth here — only with really good coffee. All the necessary buildings are still more or less in place, too. Even the royal regalia. We could have this up and running in no time with a bit of good will.
I’ll point out this solves a lot of problems.
Most of Yugoslavia, Greece, Cyprus, Syria, Palestine, Libya…all back in the bosom of the empire. Georgia, too, come to think of it.
“By his own admission Ben-Gurion was irreligious, even atheistic as a youth.”
link to vision.org
Iraq! Yet another problem solved! Lebanon…this is a winner!
Also from Wiki, Gohmert on animal rights:
In a 2012 meeting of the House Natural Resources Committee, Gohmert stated his strong support of a trans-Alaskan pipeline, as a means for caribou to have more sex.
According to Gohmert, “When [the caribou] want to go on a date, they invite each other to head over to the pipeline. So [his] real concern now [is] … if oil stops running through the pipeline … do we need a study to see how adversely the caribou would be affected if that warm oil ever quit flowing?” Gohmert’s comments were not favorably received by the rest of the committee; reportedly, Alaskan representative Don Young was forced to stifle his laughter in response.
The speech posted here is no better. Obama helped to jumped-start a sea or radicalism, hereby bringing it to the surface? Is it my poor English acquired as the third language, or it is a word salad any way you parse it?
That caribou story is hysterical, piotr. Did he say whether the female draped herself over the warm pipeline while the male got her worked up from behind?
[He's never seen a rut in October? No wonder Don Young was laughing. Those bucks don't have time to find a pipeline.]
The Ottoman Empire was a pretty sophisticated Empire, more sophisticated in many ways than contemporary European states.
Many jews thrived under Ottoman rule. When Ferdinand and Isabella conquered the Kingdom of Granada (where, under Muslim rule, many Jews lived prosperously for centuries) many Jews fled to the Ottoman Empire.
Without the British conquest of the Ottoman Empire province of Palestine at the end of World War I, Zionism would today be known as a quirky and discarded theory. The Jews of Palestine would no doubt be living relatively happily under Turkish rule.
upsidedownism: “The Ottoman Empire was a pretty sophisticated Empire, more sophisticated in many ways than contemporary European states.
Many jews thrived under Ottoman rule. When Ferdinand and Isabella conquered the Kingdom of Granada (where, under Muslim rule, many Jews lived prosperously for centuries) many Jews fled to the Ottoman Empire.
Without the British conquest of the Ottoman Empire province of Palestine at the end of World War I, Zionism would today be known as a quirky and discarded theory. The Jews of Palestine would no doubt be living relatively happily under Turkish rule.”
Well, the Ottoman Empire was pretty broken down by the twentieth century. I don’t think anyone was living happily under its rule by then.