‘Our relationship to Israel causes dead Americans and enormous expense in fighting Muslims’ — Scheuer to Congress

Israel/Palestine
on 97 Comments

A lot of people are passing around this amazing testimony before Congress two weeks back by former CIA analyst Michael Scheuer, in which he says that the reason that Muslims want to become jihadis is not who we are but our foreign policy.

Americans need to have a debate at last about whether supporting Israel is essential to US security, or having troops in Muslim countries is essential, or supporting Saudi Arabia is essential, Scheuer argues. If the people want to believe that, “fine.” But they should know that “costs come with that.”

Notice Peter King lands on Scheuer with doctrinaire statements about supporting Israel, and Scheuer responds:

“If it was up to me, I’d dump the Israelis tomorrow. All I worry about is that continuing preaching of American politicians to the American people that our relationship with the Israelis doesn’t cause us to have dead Americans and extraordinary expenses in fighting the Muslim world.”

The politicians want us to believe we’re fighting a bunch of longhaired bearded goat eating madmen who don’t want us to have women in the workplace, Scheuer says. But that’s not why they’re attacking us. It’s because we’re trying to impose our political culture on them.

“Who’s winning today? We’re done like dinner… We’ve had two military defeats overseas.”

The exchange grows more and more heated till Scheuer calls “bullshit” on Chris Stewart of Utah. The hearing took place on October 9, 2013, before the Homeland Security Committee. It focused on  Somalia and the problem of more and more Westerners joining the jihad and returning home. 

97 Responses

  1. just
    October 26, 2013, 11:55 am

    Scheuer is correct.

    (as much as I have disagreed with him on things in the past, he’s telling the truth wrt to Israel and our very sick relationship with same)

    Our foreign policy sucks.

    (wow, he has aged!)

    • just
      October 26, 2013, 12:44 pm

      BS is a wholly befitting as a response to Cretin Stewart.

      I have only nasty things to say about Islamophobe King.

    • thetruthhurts
      October 27, 2013, 3:00 am

      all people being considered in this “sensitive (oh, we better watch out what we say)situation regarding that terror state east of the mediteranean that extorts billions of dollars from US taxpayers as well as our international good will” i have a lot of respect for shuerer compared to the gutlessness of others but he still is pussyfooting around the subject instead of coming out with a good, hardhitting comment. but he’s getting progressively bolder as time goes on probably cause he knows he’s getting on so he’s losing his previous inhibitions and cautiousness.

  2. HarryLaw
    October 26, 2013, 12:20 pm

    Bravo Professor Scheuer, for telling it like it is, one quibble you said “we’re done like dinner” didn’t you know those two Congressional Israeli shills were singing for their supper.

  3. Justpassingby
    October 26, 2013, 12:27 pm

    Going against Sheuer? Seriously?

    Hes an expert but these israel-firsters nobodys almost get in tears when he tells the truth?

  4. CloakAndDagger
    October 26, 2013, 12:43 pm

    This man is not afraid to tell it like it is. I am surprised that he was even invited to speak in front of congress as this is exactly the kind of people that the Israel-firsters are afraid of: credible people with hard facts at their disposal (note his tenure in the CIA as head of the Bin Laden unit) who cannot be bullied into silence and who put America above everyone else. A handful of men like him would bring the whole house of cards crashing down.

    Bravo patriot!

    • Citizen
      October 26, 2013, 1:58 pm

      I agree.

    • pabelmont
      October 26, 2013, 5:56 pm

      Let’s hope he is not assassinated before a few others join him in even more NOISY testimony.

    • bintbiba
      October 26, 2013, 6:36 pm

      Mr. Scheuer is avery honorable man and a true hero!
      He makes those two losers look so foolish.

      • Shingo
        October 26, 2013, 7:25 pm

        Scheuer has been prone to making some dumb remarks but being head of the Bin Laden unit at the CIA does make him qualified in this field.

      • Kathleen
        October 27, 2013, 12:05 pm

        I would say so to the being “qualified”

    • Ellen
      October 26, 2013, 8:44 pm

      I am also surprised he was invited to testify. Could there be a crack in the grip The Zionist project has on the US Senate and Congress?

      Also Stewart’s statement that he knows they “hate” us for our freedoms is not only ignorant but the extreme propaganda. It is, indeed, a lie and BS as Scheuer called it. That Stewart tries to give his lie with the framing that when he was in the Air Force and worked in the ME and knows this because he talked to “them” is ridiculous. Stewart sat at a desk in the bubble.

      And since when do we need Israel to fight AQ? Weren’t we even very recently trying to arm some factions of Al Q in Syria?

      As an aside, many protestant fundamental Christians in the U S believe, really believe, that the fate of the USA is dependent upon Israel.

      Aside from the inanity of such beliefs about a declared country,, what they miss is that the US was founded on religious freedoms, which means Americans are not obligated to send their taxes and children to fight for the “religious” beliefs of others. Yet this is what we are doing.

      So Scheuer is right….we are done like dinner.

      • CloakAndDagger
        October 27, 2013, 12:24 am

        And, speaking of patriots and our treasonous government, read this and weep:

        link to veteransnewsnow.com

      • Sammar
        October 27, 2013, 3:25 am

        Stewart’s statement that “they hate us because of our freedom” is stupid. Arabs actually admire the US precisely because of that, although in the years since 9/11 freedom has been curtailed to some extent. What they hate about the US are precisely the things Prof. Scheuer has cited.

        King’s pro-Israel ravings were to be expected and only expose how brain-washed he is ( assuming that he has a functioning brain).
        Scheuer’s 6 points of why the US is hated in the ME ( and elsewhere) are valid – I would put support for tyrannical governments and the total bias in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as the main points, followed by the attacks and destruction wreaked on Muslim countries, and the US military bases in the ME. I would say the preferential price of oil would be the least important to the “Arab street” but all the other points certainly cause resentment.

        It is scary to see that so many members of the US Congress apparently have a totally distorted view or reality. No wonder the US foreign policy does more harm than good to anyone. I think even Israel may suffer in the long run, they would be much better off with US support that leads to peace with the Arabs than support for their policies of occupation, land theft and apartheid.

      • Shingo
        October 27, 2013, 5:19 am

        would put support for tyrannical governments and the total bias in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as the main points, followed by the attacks and destruction wreaked on Muslim countries, and the US military bases in the ME.

        Right on the money, though Sheuer did not omit these.

        In the 1950’s Eisenhower was concerned about the image of the US in Arab world – not among the governments, but among the people. The National Security Council issued a memorandum in 1958 , since declassified, that there was a perception in the Arab world that the United States supports brutal dictatorships, that the US blocks democracy and development, and that the US does it because it wants to control their resources. The report concluded that the perception were accurate, but that the US should be pursuing these policies regardless.
        link to history.state.gov

        The conclusion also said that as long as the Arab population remained obsequious, there was no price to pay. As long as the dictators back us, it doesn’t matter what the population thinks.

        In 2001, the Defence Science Board came to the same conclusion.
        This was highlighted by the Wikileaks revelation that was reported as showing the Arab world was supportive of US policy towards Iran’s nuclear program. Of course, the leak only cites statements by Arab leaders. A poll taken of the Arab population itself showed that 59% were in favour of Iran having nuclear weapons. Only 10% regarded Iran as a threat, with 90% in Egypt showing the US and Israel as being perceived as the major threats.
        link to guardian.co.uk

      • Kathleen
        October 27, 2013, 12:09 pm

        “they hate us because of our freedoms” has been repeated by Senator Schumer, former Senator Liebermann, Congressman Louie Gohmert, Ros Lehtinen, Micheal Ledeen, Stephen Hadley, Cheney, and so many more over and over and over again.

  5. Taxi
    October 26, 2013, 12:53 pm

    LOL! The cat is soooo out of the bag!

    If you watch the video on youtube, you get the entertainment value of the commentary, cyber Main Street style: a clear indicator that the zio jig in America is really up:
    link to youtube.com
    Most commentators on youtube, I’d say a good 95%, are feeling and expressing two things:
    1- Utter disgust with israel-firster politicians
    2- Utter resentment towards israel

    Helllllluw hasbara central – red alert red alert red alert!

    • Shingo
      October 26, 2013, 9:18 pm

      Yes Taxi,

      I spat my coffee onto the monitor when King said that the only time in the 90s the US used force was to defend Muslims against Christians. I guess the half million children the US killed in Iraq though sanctions and blockade doesn’t count.

    • Kathleen
      October 27, 2013, 12:10 pm

      Was planning to watch the whole hearing instead of just this I believe broken up clip

  6. pipistro
    October 26, 2013, 1:17 pm

    He’s right, but “after dinner” I fear there’s still European former bystanders. And due to their sense of guilt they seem mostly eager to take the wrong side of history.

  7. Krauss
    October 26, 2013, 1:41 pm

    I’m surprised he even got invited at all. He’s saying things that should be verboten in the AIPAC-funded Congress. Whoever invited him is going to get some pretty angry phonecalls from lobbyists of the American fifth column.

    • Ellen
      October 26, 2013, 8:47 pm

      For sure and not only phone calls. The hate and smear campaign is underway.

  8. Amar
    October 26, 2013, 1:41 pm

    2 weeks ago? Only heard about it now. Scary to think of how much effort went into preventing it from gaining ground or going mainstream. Should be a big story.

  9. W.Jones
    October 26, 2013, 1:44 pm

    At 5:15 King says that the fact we have not been attacked since 2001 means we are doing the right thing by conquering many Muslim countries. Scheuer responds that this is a goofy argument. Why? Does he mean that invading countries does not stop random acts by individuals?

    7:02 – Yes, sir, I am being disagreeable, very disagreeable, sir.

  10. xanadou
    October 26, 2013, 1:49 pm

    The invi$ible money belt as a gag intended to shut up prof. Mike? The term “asked and NOT answered” seems to apply here.

    Prof. Sheuer tried to answer the questions in a manner that reflect his own experience and convictions. Perhaps Mondoweiss would care to provide a platform where this amazing Man will be allowed to elaborate on his POV in full, UNinterrupted, sentences and in his own time.

  11. Ludwig
    October 26, 2013, 2:15 pm

    It has cost 0 dead Americans. The same can not be said for America’s relationship with South Korea and Kuwait.

    • Taxi
      October 26, 2013, 3:22 pm

      Ludwig,
      An ex CIA, Alqaida expert, disagrees with your amateur assessment. Whom do you think Americans will believe?

      • Ludwig
        October 27, 2013, 1:40 pm

        Taxi, your expert is only an expert Israel basher and is not taken seriously. He was wrong on Bin Laden, couldn’t catch him and he is wrong on ISrael.

      • Taxi
        October 27, 2013, 2:10 pm

        Ludwig,
        Can we focus here for a sec, please. I asked you a simple question and I’ll ask you again: whom do you think the American public would believe: you or the head of the Ben Laden unit? Cuz that’s who your audience is: the American people. Your job is to convince THEM that your ‘assessment’ carries more gravitas than that of an Intelligence dude who’s spent over two decades working for the CIA.

      • Ludwig
        October 27, 2013, 5:52 pm

        They would believe me rather than the discredited Israel basher.

      • Shingo
        October 27, 2013, 5:59 pm

        Taxi, your expert is only an expert Israel basher and is not taken seriously.

        He was head if the Bin Kaden unit for 2 decades. How did he get appointed to that position and keep it for 20 years if he was not
        taken seriously?

        And no Ludwig, be bus not an Israeli badger. He’s just bit an Israeli poodle.

        He was wrong on Bin Laden, couldn’t catch him and he is wrong on ISrael.

        No you are wrong on Israel and Bin Laden. Scheuer gave Clinton a number of chances to catch Bin Laden and Clinton passed them up.

      • Shingo
        October 28, 2013, 4:05 am

        They would believe me rather than the discredited Israel basher.

        No they wouldn’t and they don’t. After all, an Israel basher is simply some who Israeli propagandists hate.

      • Taxi
        October 28, 2013, 5:07 am

        Shingo,

        Ludwig is ziocained past the eyeballs. I’d laugh at his arrogance and delusion – if only I can be bothered to! Not even worth a laugh – that’s how yawn-full he is.

    • just
      October 26, 2013, 3:52 pm

      Idiotic post.

      Thanks anyway Lud.

      You’re persistent.

    • Shingo
      October 26, 2013, 3:54 pm

      It cost hundreds of lives in Lenanon alone , and thousands in Iraq.

      • Ludwig
        October 27, 2013, 1:39 pm

        Israel was not responsible for any American loss of life in Lebanon or Iraq.

      • Shingo
        October 27, 2013, 6:00 pm

        Israel was responsible for Amwrican deaths in Lebanon and Iraq.

        Israel has also killed Americans.

        No question.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 29, 2013, 1:44 am

        The US was in Lebanon and Iraq in whole or part because of israel.

    • pjdude
      October 26, 2013, 5:20 pm

      flat out wrong. depending on how indirect you want to get our relationship with Israel has cost anywhere from a couple hundred to thousands.

      • Ludwig
        October 27, 2013, 1:39 pm

        pjdude. I don’t want to get “indirect” at all. Very directly, the USA has losts incalculable sum in blood and treasure protecting Kuwait, South Korea, Taiwan, and others. And not one USA troop has ever died protecting Israel in history. Not one.

      • Shingo
        October 27, 2013, 6:02 pm

        At least 4,000 Americans have does in Iraq protecting Israel.

        Even Netenyahu admitted that withdrawal of US troops from Iraq threatened Israel’s security.

      • pjdude
        October 28, 2013, 1:54 am

        first off you said the relationship not protecting. you can’t change the yardstick when you dislike the answer.. the simple fact is that Israel is responsible for roughly the second most american deaths of any country in the region. when you look at unprovocked acts that lead to american deaths they tops the list. so yeah the american relationship with Israel has killed thousands of americans.

    • Justpassingby
      October 26, 2013, 6:15 pm

      3000 dead alone on 911. You ought to be ashamed of yourself Ludwig. But this is how israel firsters argue I guess.

    • Kris
      October 27, 2013, 8:36 pm

      Maybe you missed Osama Bin Laden’s “Letter to America,” in which he explains why al Qaeda attacked the U.S. on 9/11. (I am not trying to start an argument about whether or not 9/11 was an Israeli/U.S. conspiracy or not; who knows?) But Bin Laden’s letter is very clear about how many Moslems see the U.S. collaboration with Israel. You can read it all here:

      link to theguardian.com

      Just for starters:

      “As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

      “(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

      “a) You attacked us in Palestine:

      “(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. …”

      • just
        October 28, 2013, 7:04 am

        It’s always been curious and frustrating to me that nobody seems to remember that… it’s simply not cited and seemingly ignored.

        Yet we always do hear this: “they hate us for our freedoms”. A laughable load of poo.

      • Ludwig
        October 28, 2013, 8:52 pm

        Israel had nothing to do with 911.

      • Shingo
        October 28, 2013, 10:46 pm

        Israel was one if the reasons 911 happened. In fact, many of the 19 highjackers, like Atta, were radicalized by the IP conflict.

      • Woody Tanaka
        October 29, 2013, 1:48 am

        “Israel had nothing to do with 911.”

        BS. Bin Laden himself said that the US support of israel was a driving force behind the attack on 9/11.

      • Ludwig
        October 29, 2013, 1:07 pm

        And the killer of John Lennon had a “reason” too. It doesn’t have any credence. Israel had nothing to do with 911.

      • Shingo
        October 29, 2013, 6:20 pm

        Israel was one of the main causes of 911.

      • Ludwig
        October 31, 2013, 12:41 am

        Shingo,

        You are wrong and your statement is a fringe conspiracy theory.

      • Shingo
        October 31, 2013, 5:12 am

        No I am right and my theory is in the 911 report.

      • talknic
        October 31, 2013, 5:22 am

        @ Ludwig If the person allegedly responsible for 9/11 says it was because of Israel’s actions against the Palestinians, then it was because of Israel’s actions against the Palestinians.

        Your denial can only go so far before it becomes quite ridiculous

  12. just
    October 26, 2013, 2:20 pm

    “February 10, 2009
    Lobby? What Lobby?

    by Michael Scheuer

    Last December, I spoke to the nonpartisan Jamestown Foundation’s annual conference on al-Qaeda. My talk was a worldwide survey of how America’s war against Islamism had gone in 2008; an analysis of al-Qaeda’s current fortunes and growth potential; and an assessment of whether U.S. policies were adequately protecting genuine U.S. national interests as the Obama administration began. I concluded that 2008 was a year of setbacks for America, and that the future appeared rather bleak.

    For the speech, I took as my text a truncated version of the introduction I wrote for the paperback edition of my book, Marching Toward Hell: America and Islam After Iraq. In preparing the new text I was pleased to find my predictions in the hardcover had been accurate, but saddened that Americans had not faced the fact that our Islamist foes are motivated by U.S. foreign policies and their impact. One policy I am critical of in Marching Toward Hell is the nature of the U.S.-Israel relationship. I argued that unqualified, bipartisan support for Israel damages U.S. national security, and I damned those who identify critics of the relationship as anti-American, anti-Semitic, or, in my case, according to AIPAC leader Morris J. Amitay, a man who would make Mein Kampf “required reading” at the CIA.

    In the course of analyzing 2008 events, I found no reason to alter my view. And after hearing McCain and Obama during the campaign, there was no reason to expect change in Washington’s Israel policy. At the Jamestown Conference, I therefore first discussed the abject failure of President Bush and his advisers to recognize that al-Qaeda and its allies are waging war because of U.S. policies – one of which is Israel policy – and not because of our lifestyle and domestic politics.

    I next offered an estimate of Mr. Obama’s potential to change these terrorism-motivating policies. While admitting an inability to read Obama’s mind, I noted that he had given at least two strong hints – to Americans and the Muslim world – that he would be as pro-Israel as Mr. Bush. I noted that (a) Mr. Obama spent the last months of the presidential campaign “dancing the Tel Aviv two-step,” promising to protect Israel as if it were located inside the United States; and (b) Obama appointed Rahm Emanuel as his chief of staff, a U.S. citizen who during the 1991 Gulf War left America to serve in Israel’s military.

    These statements of fact suggested to me that U.S. policy toward Israel and the Muslim world would be identical to Mr. Bush’s, albeit couched in softer, come-let-us-reason-together rhetoric.

    My speech seemed well received, but in January I received a call from Jamestown’s president telling me I had been terminated as a senior fellow by the Foundation’s board of directors. Why, I asked? He responded by citing my comments about Obama doing the “Tel Aviv two-step” and my description of Emanuel’s record, both of which he said might be in a speech by Rep. Ron Paul. My remarks about Emanuel apparently sparked particular anger among the Foundation’s directors, as Jamestown’s president referred to them at least three times in a short telephone conversation. In any event, the president said several major financial donors to Jamestown threatened to withdraw funding if I remained a senior fellow, so I was getting the boot. Then he added that my every-other-week essays for Jamestown’s Terrorism Focus had attracted readers and praise for the Foundation, so the directors said I could keep writing for the journal. I declined this honor, which seemingly was a bribe made in the hope that I would not speak publicly about being terminated as a senior fellow for saying the current state of the U.S.-Israel relationship undermined U.S. national security.

    I regret leaving Jamestown, as I have great respect for its analysis on several vital U.S. security issues. But at the same time, I am grateful to the Foundation’s directors for terminating me. In the hardcover of Marching Toward Hell, I condemned the U.S.-Israel relationship and those who take it “upon themselves to decide who is and who is not a ‘good American,'” based on his or her views of U.S.-Israel relations, and “then mete out punishment to those of their countrymen who do not make the grade.” At the time, my view was based on what pro-Israel U.S. citizens had done to Pat Buchanan, President Carter, and Professors Walt and Mearsheimer.

    Now, however, I have the personal experience of losing both position and income for condemning Washington’s status quo Israel policy as a threat to U.S. national security. The introduction to my paperback, therefore, can be said to be credibly written by an author with firsthand knowledge of how the Israel Lobby works. After my experience with the “nonpartisan” board of directors at Jamestown, I can only say of them what FDR said of his domestic foes: “They are unanimous in their hatred for me – and I welcome their hatred.” ”

    link to antiwar.com

    • traintosiberia
      October 26, 2013, 5:01 pm

      One thing is amazing . Here Haim Saban can articulate his negative feeling towards Obama for not being as Israeli friendly as was Hilary on his deduction from the two different responses to some gotch question-i.e- what will you do if Iran attacks Isreal-
      Hilary- I will obliterate Iran
      Obama- we have to have a response and strategy. Saban did not like it at all.
      In a referene to Emmanuel he said to Isreali TV that he was informed that Emmanule is hawkish on Israel issues more than 50 % of the Israelis are . These are bandied about in passing but once one tries to join these remarks in a coherent whole , the hell breaks loose in US.
      I always think if the Iraq war went well ( the neoocons knew it wont ) those nice people would have come out from the offices of AEI,PNAC,ECI, FDD,Saban Center, Brookings and scores of other letter head office addresses to claim the carcass as their own.

    • yonah fredman
      October 27, 2013, 4:07 am

      just- Thanks for including this speech by Scheuer.

      Personally I don’t think it would be wise to dump Israel tomorrow, even if one agreed with Scheuer. I think a sudden 180 degree turn would be destabilizing.

      My gut says that Scheuer is right that support for Israel costs the US. Retired general Mattis said the same thing and I assume he was speaking the truth.

      I think uniform congressional support for Israel is artificial (based on donor bases rather than assessment of the US needs). I think a wise president would not have to turn 180 degrees to accomplish change, but I think that the campaign needs of candidates skews the process away from a saner policy.

      Scheuer includes Buchanan in his list of Jimmy Carter and Walt and Mearsheimer as one who has been maligned by the lobby. I am rather sure that Carter and Walt and Mearsheimer would not want to be seen in Buchanan’s company and Scheuer does not improve his case with impolitic remarks. Using the phrase “Tel Aviv two step” also illustrates the fact that his inclination towards making enemies is stronger than his will to change policy. (I give him the benefit of the doubt. He realizes that changing policy is a long way off, so in the meantime he is allowed to be as impolitic as he wants, because it really makes no difference and so he has no reason to censor his words.)

      (The fact regarding Rahm Emanuel is: that if left to Emanuel, Obama could have been much more confrontational with Israel (Netanyahu) and it was the donor base which made Obama try a different tack, not Emanuel.)

  13. flyod
    October 26, 2013, 2:26 pm

    Scheuer’s “Imperial Hubris” (written in 2004 under the assumed name, anonymous) was aptly titled and a thought provoking warning to fools like Peter King. Good to see Scheuer is still at it. Unfortunately, King is a payed for traitor to these United States and the darling of Islam bashing a.m. radio here in NY.

  14. W.Jones
    October 26, 2013, 2:32 pm

    Speaking of interesting clips, there is a 1990’s one that French TV showed called “Une terre deux fois promise : Israël-Palestine” (www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FnfQ7JLekU‎)
    Unfortunately I cannot understand it because I dont know French, but you can put captions on to help “get it.” The director also made a movie on JFK and the empire state building, and it would be interesting to see if the movie has anything unusual or interesting in it for you.

    • German Lefty
      October 26, 2013, 4:20 pm

      @ W.Jones
      My French is not good enough to understand much of the linked segment. It deals with the 1967 war and Palestinian resistance to the occupation. Palestinian refugees and Palestinian identity are mentioned. Also, Jordan is mentioned very often.
      Here’s the Google translation of link to autourdu1ermai.fr
      Israel-Palestine: a land twice promised
      A film by William Karel (1997 • France • Documentary • 65 minutes)
      On the eve of the 50th anniversary of the state of Israel, there is the question that nobody can or will answer how the two peoples will they be able to live on the same land, a land twice promised?
      For the first time, a three-episode documentary tells, through archive footage and stories of the main “actors” all direct witnesses and leading five decades of turbulent history of Israel.
      1947-1977: “The Missed appointments.” Sharing in 1947 with the arrival of Sadat.
      1978-1991: “Secret Conversations”. From Camp David to the Madrid conference.
      1992-1997: “Armed Peace”. Oslo negotiations in stalled peace process. We can emphasize the “uniqueness” of the Jewish people, since there is no example in history of a people that has chased all around the globe and that has survived 2000 years. The Palestinians, for their part, have marked this century by their stubborn refusal to disappear.

    • Walid
      October 27, 2013, 8:50 am

      W. Jones, you wanted to know what was in the French video. It begins with the Assistant Director of the Mossad saying that Israel had come very close to finalizing a settlement and a treaty with Ithe Palestinians and that all they were asking for was for Israel to recognize their right to a state. Golda Meir was radically opposed to this and Israel missed a unique opportunity.

      At their forced exit from Jordan (meaning Black September), the Palestinians chose the ways of confrontation with Israel. Arafat’s commandos infiltrated the border at the Jordan River and began attacks against Israel.

      Bassam Abu Sharif, a PLO fighter interviewed said that the defeat of 1967 had been a turning point in his life. He remembered the landscape littered with destroyed tanks that made him face the cruelty of defeat. He saw thousands of refugees women and children fleeing by crossing the Jordan River and taking the roads that led them to the refugee camps. Israel prevented anyone from returning to their home.

      An aged Leila Khaled (the plane highjacker) is interviewed, said it had become necessary to tell the whole world that the Palestinians had a cause that needed to be defended and that it was no a matter of getting humanitarian aid. Action had to be taken to make people ask who are these Palestinians.

      A young Yasser Arafat is interviewed said it was the Palestinians’ right to reclaim what had been taken from them, even by force.

      An older Yasser Arafat is saying there was no other solution but to take up arms as all UN resolutions had been transgressed, rejected and rebuffed by Israel. It made the Palestinians conclude that the only way for them was to fight.

      Leila Khaled began a new form of terrorism, that of air piracy.
      A very young Leila is interviewed saying she didn’t know how many years it would take. Several planes were highjacked and made to land at a PLO makeshift strip in the Jordanian desert.

      On Sept 6, 1970, 4 airliners were highjacked by 4 fighters under Leila’s command. BOAC (British), Swissair, TWA, and an El Al with a total of 600 passengers, most of which were later released and 3 of the planes blown up.

      An aged King Hussein of Jordan said that this had been the last straw and he resolved that he would not let his country fall to anarchy. Fighting broke out in Amman that became a living nighmare with the Jordanian air force bombing the city. Many of the fighters fled across the Jordan River. King Husein notified the US of his intention to bomb the camps and Kissinger said that the US had consented. When the camps were being attacked, that’s when Syria invaded Jordan.

      (A typical French film that leaves you stranded at its ending, hope this French version helped.).

      • homingpigeon
        October 27, 2013, 11:39 am

        the important detail after the French ending is that while the Syrian Army was invading Jordan to support the Palestinians, Hafez al Assad, commander of the Syrian Air Force, refused to support the operation and engineered a coup which put himself in power. Syrian units – which were said to be “Palestinian Liberation Army” units – then withdrew.

      • Walid
        October 27, 2013, 2:09 pm

        Homingpigeon, the whole of the mini civil war between the Jordanians and the PLO lasted about 10 days. during which, Syria had sent in a bit of hardware to give support to the PLO. Not long after it started, Syria and the Soviet Union received unequivocal indications that neither the United States nor Israel would view with equanimity a Syrian invasion of Jordan. Israeli and American mobilization led the Soviets to convince the Syrians of pulling out of Jordan and out of the fight. Syrian involvement caused a big stink in Syria and it was 2 months after that that Assad’s coup happened. Israel had effectively saved Jordan’s skin that time. It’s no wonder that 3 years later just before the Yom Kippur War, Jordan tried to return the favour.

  15. German Lefty
    October 26, 2013, 3:40 pm

    ‘Our relationship to Israel causes dead Americans and enormous expense in fighting Muslims’

    Honestly, I don’t like his reasoning. It’s totally self-centred.
    People who mainly care about themselves say: “Our relationship to Israel is bad for us.”
    People who mainly care about justice say: “Our relationship to Israel is bad for the Palestinians.”
    Instead of giving selfish reasons, Scheuer should cite international law and human rights.
    Apparently, Scheuer believes that if the USA’s support for the Zionist regime didn’t lead to loss of American lives and increased military spending, then everything would be fine. The injustice to Palestinians doesn’t matter to him.

    • OlegR
      October 27, 2013, 11:57 am

      /.Honestly, I don’t like his reasoning. It’s totally self-centred./

      Well sure he is weighing things from real politic perspective and Amercian interests the way he should as an ex CIA.
      I can argue with his reasoning and conclusions or interpretation of facts but not his motivation which is what is best for US.
      The idea that a country should act from altrusitic motivations is noble
      but it’s implementation in real life especially when dealing with long term changes is very problematic.

    • Ellen
      October 27, 2013, 10:48 pm

      GL, Scheuer is speaking to US politicians. They do not really care about international law or human rights. They are elected to care about their own constituents and the safety and welfare of U S citizens first. He is speaking their language, pushing their buttons.

      Selfish? One may chareterize it as such, but that is how it is….even in Germany.

      Point is, the degree of US support for the Israel project and settlement/squatter expansion is not only a long term disaster for world Judaism, but it is a mega disaster for the US.

      Scheuer is making the the case of the terrible disaster this has been for the U S. Few in Congress or the Senate want to hear this truth.

      The money is still in advocating for Zionism over the welfare and interest of American citizens.

      • German Lefty
        October 28, 2013, 2:20 pm

        @ Ellen
        Scheuer is speaking to US politicians. They do not really care about international law or human rights.
        Yes, that’s the problem. US politicians and also many US citizens seem to think that people outside of the USA don’t have ANY rights just because the US constitution doesn’t apply to them. And that’s why it’s okay to kill these people or to invade/occupy/steal their land. As if the US constitution were the only legal document that guarantees rights. It’s time to inform the politicians and citizens of the USA about the existence of international law and human rights.

        Selfish? One may chareterize it as such, but that is how it is….even in Germany.
        No, the Left Party in Germany doesn’t argue like that.

        Point is, the degree of US support for the Israel project and settlement/squatter expansion is not only a long term disaster for world Judaism, but it is a mega disaster for the US.
        Yes, but these are only side effects. The main issue is the injustice to Palestinians.

  16. bilal a
    October 26, 2013, 3:55 pm

    Interesting the Utah congressman wants to make the war all about gender equality under current western definitions; since orthodox Mormonism and Judaism share the same values as orthodox Islam:

    “Yet the Torah does not outlaw polygamy.

    Approximately one thousand years ago, the noted German scholar Rabbi Gershom “the Light of the Diaspora” banned polygamy.1 This ban was accepted as law by all Ashkenazic Jews, but was not recognized by Sephardic and Yemenite communities.”
    link to chabad.org

  17. just
    October 26, 2013, 4:01 pm

    “You’re presiding over a bankrupcty” says Scheuer. And yes, King is an expert on cruel and extreme “goofiness.”

    Yup.

    It’s a bit like Watergate– trickle, trickle…. flood.

  18. mcohen
    October 26, 2013, 4:56 pm

    link to en.wikiquote.org………this statement before the same congress.
    the rats are getting flushed out

    “You know, I was born at night but not last night, sir. There is no operation at the CIA that is conducted without approval of lawyers. It is the bane of our existence, and it is a detriment to the defense of America, but, nonetheless, that is the fact.” Discussing Extraordinary Rendition of terrorist suspects during testimony to government committees, April 17 2007.

    3 cheers to Edward snowden

    hip hip hooray hip hip hooray hip hip hooray

  19. HarryLaw
    October 26, 2013, 5:13 pm

    Professor Scheuer talked about the expense of US wars in the middle east Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government estimated that the combined projected costs of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars would be 6 trillion dollars, link to telegraph.co.uk If you want to know what just 1 trillion dollars looks like,..link to pagetutor.com, this tutor could inform the US public about the 30 billion dollars spent on Israel over the past 10 years, better if the piles are in 1 dollar bills. Thanks to RoHa for the link.

    • HarryLaw
      October 26, 2013, 5:20 pm

      The Telegraph link in my comment above does not seem to work, try this one link to thenews.com.pk

    • Bandolero
      October 27, 2013, 3:05 pm

      They are understating the true costs. Add to the 6 trillion USD another some trillion USD of the defense and security spending spree in the GWB years, and add another some trillion USD for that they squandered the peace dividend the US was entitled to after the ending of the cold war. And then add some more trillion of USD to the bill that were caused by the fatal financial policies of cheap money and outsourcing the economy, that were taken to hide the real cost of these wars from the public.

      In total, that may sum up easily to more then 10 trillion Dollars, what the wars costed, that the US waged against the muslim world in the interest of Israel. The purely reputational damage from US led judeo-christian crusade on the muslim world for the sake of Israel’s security due to things like Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo is not even included in this bill calculation.

      What did the judeo-christian forces accomplished for this pricetag of more than 10 trillion Dollars? Jerusalem is already almost an Israeli town and hundreds of thousands of settlers are making clear that Judea and Samaria is Israeli, too. So, I think, Netanyahu and his friends will evaluate that the more than ten trillion US Dollar in US-led wars for Israel were a good investment.

      “‘America is something that can be easily moved. Moved to the right direction.They won’t get in our way'” Benjamin Netanyahu

  20. pabelmont
    October 26, 2013, 6:09 pm

    The list of really impressive F/P heavyweights who criticize USA’s Israel-policy is short, but important. Scheuer is one. Bacevich might be one. Chas Freeman is the best known. perhaps Walt and Mearsheimer belong on the list.

    If you want to set up a debate, find a few reputable pro-Israel speakers (or The Dersh ™) and make the debate with these guys.

    • Ellen
      October 26, 2013, 8:55 pm

      That would be a wonderful debate. Strong moderation would be needed to make the debate work. Who could moderate?

      • just
        October 26, 2013, 11:05 pm

        James Earl Carter should be invited.

        Philip Weiss has my vote as moderator.

  21. eGuard
    October 26, 2013, 6:50 pm

    Long time ago I heard an American talk so clear on this stuff.

    This is his blog: link to non-intervention.com

  22. Mike_Konrad
    October 26, 2013, 8:25 pm

    Maybe so!

    How many Americans would be dead if Israel never existed, and the West was fighting AlQaeda without Israeli assistance?

    • just
      October 27, 2013, 5:13 am

      What “assistance”?

      • Shingo
        October 27, 2013, 5:15 am

        Exactly, without Israel, there would be one less reason for Al Qaeda to resent the US.

      • homingpigeon
        October 27, 2013, 11:45 am

        True, the injustice to Palestinians should be primary, but when you’re dealing with people who refuse to look at that aspect, and frame their argument as being in American interests, the response is going to be to the American interests aspect. Also note that he wasn’t called in to testify as to justice in the Middle East, but to the motivations of anti-American jihadists, and he answered.

    • Shingo
      October 27, 2013, 5:14 am

      How many Americans would be dead if Israel never existed, and the West was fighting AlQaeda without Israeli assistance?

      You cannot possibly be that thick!! Israel does not assist with fighting Al Qaeda. Michael Oren has said they would prefer Al Qaeda to be in power in Syria to Assad as this would serve their interests.

      • homingpigeon
        October 27, 2013, 12:03 pm

        Actually I wouldn’t go as far as to say Israel doesn’t assist with fighting Al-Qaeda or assist with any monkey business the US does in the Mideast. We won’t know the truth or the details for another thirty years. We do know, for example, that Israel assisted with the supply of arms to the anti-Soviet mujahedeen in the ’80s – a process which eventually led to the crystallization of Taliban and Al-Qaeda.

        I would prefer to note that without Israel, there would likely have been no Al-Qaeda in the first place. There also would have been no Hamas, Islamic Jihad, or any of the dozen factions of the PLO as they all came into being as a response to Israel.

    • Cliff
      October 27, 2013, 5:55 am

      What assistance? Israel is worthless. We are the strongest country on the planet. We don’t need the apartheid State’s ‘assistance’.

      • Shingo
        October 27, 2013, 6:49 am

        Indeed,

        Israel wants the US to attack Assad and replace him with Al Qaeda. How is that assisting the US fight AlQaeda?

    • amigo
      October 27, 2013, 6:27 am

      Konrad,, always the wrong question.Never the right answer.

      “How many Americans would be dead if Israel never existed, and the West was fighting AlQaeda without Israeli assistance?” mk

      link to warincontext.org

      “The enduring hostilities between Israel and some of its neighbors present distinct challenges to our ability to advance our interests in the AOR [CENTCOM's area of responsibility]. Israeli-Palestinian tensions often flare into violence and large-scale armed confrontations. The conflict foments anti-American sentiment, due to a perception of U.S. favoritism for Israel. Arab anger over the Palestinian question limits the strength and depth of U.S. partnerships with governments and peoples in the AOR and weakens the legitimacy of moderate regimes in the Arab world. Meanwhile, al-Qaeda and other militant groups exploit that anger to mobilize support. The conflict also gives Iran influence in the Arab world through its clients, Lebanese Hizballah and Hamas. Petraeus

    • Citizen
      October 27, 2013, 10:54 am

      @ Compare how friendly the Arabs were with the USA before 1948 and subsequently.

    • Kris
      October 27, 2013, 8:39 pm

      A better question would be, “If Israel never existed, would the U.S. be fighting Al Qaeda?”

    • pjdude
      October 28, 2013, 1:57 am

      if Israel never existed the arabs states stay pro western and become a southern flank on the ussr. if Israel never existed it would have benefited the US not other way around. alqaeda probably wouldn’t have existed had Israel not existed.

  23. Obsidian
    October 27, 2013, 5:29 am

    Foreign Policy 101 teaches us three simple lessons.
    Support your friends, punish your enemies, don’t spy on friends. The Obama administration’s foreign policy has been wrongheaded ever since the United States failed to show support for Hosni Mubarak.

    • Shingo
      October 27, 2013, 5:41 am

      Foreign Policy 101 teaches us three simple lessons.
      Support your friends, punish your enemies, don’t spy on friends.

      Israel only seems to get point number 2.

    • just
      October 27, 2013, 5:46 am

      That’s a really stupid “Foreign Policy 101″. Let’s see how Israel is doing in “your” world.

      1– they continuously stab the US in the back, in the eye, etc. So much for “friends”.

      2– they punish the Palestinians and Lebanese and African refugees endlessly. Oh, and they assassinate Iranian scientists.

      3– They spy on everybody that they can– including their “friends”.

      • just
        October 27, 2013, 5:59 am

        One out of three ain’t bad, eh Obsidian?

  24. Kathleen
    October 27, 2013, 11:46 am

    I have followed what Scheuer has to say and write for over 10 years now. He cuts to the core and clearly has deep understanding and experience about what makes the people who hate the U.S. tick. He has been targeted by the I lobby and suffered personal losses. His list of why people hate the U.S. and want to attack us are very similar to what is stated in the 9/11 Commission report and what other truth tellers have been stating for decades.

    Scheuer cuts to core with Bill Maher
    link to youtube.com

    Scheuer on Cspan’s Washington Journal
    link to c-spanvideo.org
    link to c-spanvideo.org
    link to c-spanvideo.org

  25. Kathleen
    October 27, 2013, 12:03 pm

    Efforts here in Colorado to get out the facts about the conflict are substantive.
    The bus ads
    link to ijn.com

    The counter conference in response to the annual Jewish National Fund’s conference
    link to coloradobdscampaign.org

    Colorado BDS facebook page
    link to facebook.com

    Response to the bus ads making some news
    link to ijn.com

  26. Kathleen
    October 27, 2013, 12:30 pm

    When Stewart kept hammering Scheuer for information about what is former CIA colleagues think about Scheuer’s assessment of the middle east situation Scheuer honorably refuses to share what his colleagues think or say.

    Stewart: “I find your position about our alliance with Israel analysis as very troubling”

    Stewart: “Would you say there is a large number of CIA analyst or employees who agree with your position.”

    Scheuer: “I would not dare to speak for anybody but myself sir. Only a fool would not know that our relationship with Israel causes us wars with Muslims.”

    Stewart: My question is fairly simple. You worked with hundreds of employees. You certainly..

    Scheuer: “I did not work with fools sir.”

    He answers Stewarts question.

    Stewart keeps pushing and pushing for information on Scheuer’s former CIA co workers. As if Stewart plans on heading on over to the CIA to weed these people out. Finger them. How long has it taken for CIA and former CIA agents to start speaking out loud about how the U.S. support for Israel no matter what they do has been undermining U.S. National Security for decades.

  27. xanadou
    October 27, 2013, 2:47 pm

    Have just found another video with even more toxic info:
    link to youtube.com

    Scheuer is right about the sleeper cells. I live smack dab in the middle of a neighbourhood where tokens from all three of the psychotic players are already wreaking havoc on each other, with people like me trapped by the fallout. It sucks to be collateral damage. Today the morons are destroying each other’s property and tranquility. Tomorrow… the world?

    Perhaps we should find an uninhabited island in the middle of an ocean, populate it with the theological/political thugs armed with sharp sticks and have them play out their lethal stupidity. I have neither the inclination nor time for this insane obscenity. I choose my friends and lovers based on who they are, not on their ethnic, religious or histrionic baggage.

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