Segregation of Palestinians and Jews in maternity wards becomes an issue in Israel

Israel/Palestine
Last week a controversy broke out in Israel over the segregation of Palestinian and Jewish mothers in Israeli hospitals.
Israel Radio… reported on Tuesday that various hospitals around the country have been separating Jewish and Arab women in the maternity ward.
Haaretz has a report that there are differences over whether the practice is taking place.
The medical establishment insisted on Wednesday that there was no segregation between Jewish and Arab women in maternity wards. However, Arab doctors complained of racist and discriminatory treatment by medical staff in the country’s hospitals…
For many years the health establishment has been segregating Arab and Jewish mothers who come to deliver their babies, particularly in hospitals and maternity wards that serve mixed populations. While this may not be official policy, it is implemented by nurses on these wards, with doctors and hospital management turning a blind eye.
Here is the translation of an article from Israeli Maariv, published 13th April 2016 by Orit A. Brown and Arik Bender. Translation: Jonathan Ofir. It includes the shocking quote: “When a midwife delivers an Arab baby she is asked ‘Did you bring us another terrorist?”
The committee for promotion of women’s standing and cross-ethnic equality of the Knesset headed by Member of Knesset Aida Toma-Saliman discussed this morning (Wednesday) the issue of separation between Jewish and Arab mothers giving birth in hospitals, an issue which came into political and public debate following MK Bezalel Smotrich’s words on the matter. [Smotrich supported the segregation of women giving birth on an ethnic basis.]
Professor Dorit Hochner, director of the maternity ward at Hadassah Har Hatzofim was called upon for comment and said: “We respect mothers’ requests, when orthodox mothers don’t want to share a room, we will respect that request. It isn’t racism.” Dr. Lena Kassem, from Doctors for Human Rights, told of the separation in hospitals and regarded Shaarei Tzedek [in Jerusalem] hospital: “When a midwife delivers an Arab baby she is asked ‘Did you bring us another terrorist?’ I heard it with my own ears”.
Kassem added further:
“There is a clear separation between Jews and Arabs. When it’s an Arab, they say I am passing on a ‘speaker’ [of Arabic]. It’s true that the policy of the hospital does not support racism, but the overall atmosphere of the staff is overtly racist, especially in Shaarei Tzedek. Pass a night there and listen to the general atmosphere – they don’t call the woman by her name but rather say ‘the Ethiopean’, ‘the Russian’, ‘the Arab’. The Arab woman receives a deriding treatment, they put her at the end of the hall and when there’s an emergency it takes time to reach her. This has medical implications upon the health of that woman.”
In the discussion, participants were, amongst others, representatives of the Health Ministry, Chairman of the Union of Hospital Managers, the Israeli Medical Union as well as NGO’s and organisations including Adalah – the legal center for rights of the Arab minority in Israel, Naamat, Doctors for Human Rights and more.
About Jonathan Ofir

Israeli musician, conductor and blogger / writer based in Denmark.

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91 Responses

  1. a blah chick
    April 15, 2016, 11:35 am

    In response to this segregated maternity issue the Israeli government put out a picture showing two women sitting side by side on a hospital bed holding their newborns. Their propaganda right now is so bad it is comical.

    Meanwhile they still have segregated roads in the West Bank, segregated schools, segregated towns and neighborhoods, but don’t worry, there are still places where a Jewish mama and a Palestinian mama can still share a hospital room! Pathetic.

    • K Renner
      April 15, 2016, 1:34 pm

      Hilarious to see nutty and the rest of them claiming that the Palestinian West Bank is “Jewish land” and is “Israel”.

      When they do that, they are essentially saying that the Israeli state proper, per their expansionist definition, is most definitely an apartheid state beyond any doubt.

      Their propaganda always is pathetic. But these are people who think whining “anti-Semite” in response to any kind of criticism regarding Palestine and Lebanon is a valid argument and more importantly (for them) some kind of last word.

      • oldgeezer
        April 15, 2016, 5:28 pm

        @K Renner

        “When they do that, they are essentially saying that the Israeli state proper, per their expansionist definition, is most definitely an apartheid state beyond any doubt. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/recent-comments/#sthash.53yI6wvr.dpuf

        Spot on. Not only is it a pure textbook apartheid state it is the ultimate goal that was envisaged by South Africa and much worse/advanced than South Africa.

        zionists will of course adopt any argument which advances, or protects, their illegal actions and illegitimate cause. They are criminals in every sense of the word. One would expect no less from a criminal. A criminal movement and a criminal state.

  2. Marnie
    April 15, 2016, 12:04 pm

    And if you dare complain, you will be referred to by the staff nurses as “antisemetic”. You have a problem and press the button for the nurse? Don’t count on anyone coming to see what is wrong. That’s why so many patient’s family members stay with them while they are in the hospital. I saw this with my own eyes and heard from a friend who worked in the hospital how things are with Arab patients in particular.

  3. K Renner
    April 15, 2016, 1:31 pm

    Once again, Palestinians in Israel overwhelmingly report something that’s markedly different from the Israeli hasbara narrative.

    Once again the response from Israeli Jews generally is “no no it’s wrong there’s nothing wrong here” if they’re not out and out calling Palestinians in Israel “liars” generally.

    One can be assured that the PR hacks for Israel WILL out and out call Palestinians in Israel “liars” whilst chanting the stale propaganda lines with the exact same wording time after time.

    Sickening, and pathetic. But that’s something that’s very, very typical when it comes to this.

    • diasp0ra
      April 19, 2016, 6:33 am

      Yep, the mantra of any criticism must be a conspiracy by Arabs and or crazy leftists.

  4. chocopie
    April 15, 2016, 1:33 pm

    The medical care for Palestinians in Israel is abysmal. Some of our relatives visited about 15 years ago and saw a teenage Palestinian boy (Israeli citizen) who had never had his cleft lip repaired. Poor kid kept his hand up covering his mouth constantly. All across the developed world, that simple operation is performed at 4 months of age. But Israel, as usual, is exceptional.

    • oldgeezer
      April 15, 2016, 1:51 pm

      And before some zionist toady brags about how wonderful it is that Israel provides health care to Palestinians let’s point out that as the occupying power Israel is responsible for providing health care to the Palestinians. It is an obligation and not a gift or act of kindness.

      • xanadou
        April 16, 2016, 12:35 pm

        Oldgeezer: “It is an obligation…”
        All the more so considering the equivalent of millions of US$ paid by Palestinians and retained by the israeli govt.

    • jon s
      April 16, 2016, 4:55 pm

      chocopie,
      I don’t know about the boy you saw, and why his cleft lip had not been repaired but in Israel there is universal, mandatory, health insurance.
      The system, is ,of course not devoid of problems, but all citizens are covered and cleft lips are repaired routinely.

      • Mooser
        April 16, 2016, 5:29 pm

        “but in Israel there is universal, mandatory, health insurance.”

        “In Israel”? Does that include the illegal settlers, like you, “Jon s”?

        Don’t tell me Israel is paying millions to keep illegal settlers healthy. Does the universal health care extend to the settlements?

      • Marnie
        April 17, 2016, 2:57 am

        Are you capable of getting anything straight? Why do you even bother, especially since you’ll write another 20 posts to justify this manure. Universal, mandatory health insurance. It’s not free JonS, so its not universal or even mandatory. There is no free health care, it’s cheap (and you get what you can pay for), but if you can’t make the premiums, you get cut off. Minimum wage 25 shekels/hour ($7). There are monthly premiums to be paid, prescriptions, extra costs for specialty services (cleft palate surgery involves plastic surgery, possibly orthopedic, orthodontic, etc). Quit making it sound like something it isn’t.

      • Marnie
        April 17, 2016, 3:27 am

        Huge Disparities Between Israeli, Palestinian Health-care Systems, Says Rights Group

        New report finds that government expenditure per person is nearly 10 times higher in Israel than in territories.

        Ido Efrati | Haa’retz
        Jan 11, 2015 1:12 AM

        At the Al-Najah Hospital in Nablus, they are hoping to hear soon that Israeli authorities will approve the purchase of a PET-CT scan machine – a medical imaging device which is an important tool in diagnosing cancer and malignant growths.

        PET-CT scanners have been in common use in Israeli hospitals for years. But if the Israeli authorities respond positively to the request by the Nablus hospital, it will be considered a real coup, because it would be the first such machine anywhere in the territories.

        Until they get a PET-CT device, West Bank doctors will continue to refer their patients to hospitals in Israel for diagnostic scans. The convoluted process involves a referral from a Palestinian specialist physician, a wait for approval by the Palestinian Authority Health Ministry and a request to the Israel Defense Forces’ Coordination of Government Activities in the Territories for permission to enter Israel, which is not always granted.

        Even if the efforts are successful, the problem represented by the absence of PET-CT scanners in the territories is overshadowed by a wider crisis that the Palestinian medical system has been facing for years.

        The system suffers from a regular shortage of medications, medical equipment, specialist physicians, and medical personnel in general. During certain periods, Palestinian hospitals are on a strike footing, working just three days a week. Occasionally, patients are sent to pharmacies to buy injections themselves, while medical staff sometimes find themselves lacking even basic equipment such as syringes and rubber gloves.

        One upshot of the current situation is that, increasingly, patients are referred for medical treatment outside of the Palestinian Authority – to Israel, Egypt or Jordan – and various medical treatments and procedures are becoming less available to Palestinians. Not only is the Palestinian health-care system in a sorry state, but it looks even worse when compared to the situation in Israel. The disparities are dramatic by almost every possible measure.

        The facts of life expectancy

        It begins with government expenditure on health, which is $248 per capita (16 percent of the gross domestic product) in the Palestinian Authority, compared to $2,046 per person in Israel (7.7 percent of GDP). And the comparisons become even starker the more one delves into the situation for Palestinian residents in the territories.

        Their situation was analyzed in a report entitled “Divide & Conquer: Inequality in Health,” just released by the NGO Physicians for Human Rights. It presents medical and socioeconomic data, and shows how these factors affect the ability of Palestinians to gain access to health care.

        The report provides comparable data from Israel as well, and also deals with Israel’s role in the situation in which the Palestinian health-care system finds itself.

        The compilation of the data and report writing took two years and are based on information that was assembled from a variety of official sources, including Israel’s Central Bureau of Statistics, the Palestinian statistics bureau, the World Health Organization and the United Nations.

        One of the most common measures for quality of health care is average life expectancy. The life expectancy, on average, of Israeli men and women is about 10 years higher than their Palestinian counterparts, the report states. For Palestinian men, it is 71 years (compared to 79.9 for Israeli men); for Palestinian women, it’s 73.9 years, on average, compared to 83.6 for Israeli women.

        Another gauge of health-care quality is infant mortality, as measured by the number of baby deaths per 1,000 births. By this measure also, the disparity is significant. The figure in the territories is 18.8 deaths per 1,000 births for those under 1-year-old. In Israel, by contrast, it is 3.7, a figure thought to be among the lowest infant mortality rates in the world. In comparison, the average for countries in the developed world is 4.3.

        About two-thirds of Palestinian infant deaths occur in the first months after an infant is born, which is similar to the situation in Israel. However, about 55 percent of Palestinian infant deaths are caused by preventable infections. This is the primary reason for the disparity in the two infant mortality rates.

        The difference in rate of deaths of mothers as a result of complications during pregnancy or labor is also highlighted in the report. The figure for Israeli mothers is 7 per 100,000 births, while in the territories it is four times that, at 28 per 100,000 births.

        In evaluating the Palestinian health-care system, at least part of the explanation for the disparities with Israel can be found both at the level of physical infrastructure and the human resources. For example, the report states that there are 1.76 specialist physicians in Israel per 1,000 people, compared to 0.22 specialists per 1,000 people in the territories. The number of nurses per 1,000 inhabitants in Israel is 4.8, compared to 1.9 among the Palestinians.

        The disparity is also apparent in the number of hospital beds, which is a measure of the system’s capacity to provide care. There are 3.27 beds per 1,000 people in Israel, and 1.23 beds per 1,000 Palestinians.

        The occupancy rate of hospital beds in Israel is actually higher than in the Palestinian Authority, where it is only about 76 percent, although many of the Palestinian hospital beds are at private facilities rather than public hospitals. In general, the limited investment by the Palestinian Authority in public services has spurred the development of private medical services at the expense of the public health-care system.

        Who’s responsible?

        So, to what extent is Israel responsible for the condition of the Palestinian medical system and health of the Palestinians? In 1994, as part of the Oslo Accords, responsibility for the Palestinian health-care system was transferred from Israeli authorities to the Palestinian Health Ministry. Although the transfer did occur officially, in practice, even 20 years later, the Palestinian medical system is dependent to a great extent upon Israeli authorities both indirectly – with respect to the transfer of taxes and influence over the Palestinian Authority budget – as well as some policies that directly affect the medical system.

        This includes limitations on the freedom of movement of patients, medical personnel, ambulances and medicine between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank and East Jerusalem, as well as within the West Bank itself. (East Jerusalem was annexed to Israel following the 1967 Six-Day War and is not under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority, and Palestinian residents of East Jerusalem receive health coverage from the Israeli public health system.)

        About 200,000 Palestinians a year request permission for travel between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank and East Jerusalem for medical treatment. This involves cumbersome bureaucracy and about 40,000 of the requests are denied. Hundreds of Gaza residents looking to leave the Strip for medical treatment in Israel or the West Bank are called in for questioning by the Shin Bet security service as part of the process. As a result, some patients forgo treatment out of fear that Hamas will accuse them of collaborating with Israel.

        Israel also exerts its influence on medical personnel, from initial medical education to continuing professional training to actual employment. For example, Israel controls the number of Palestinian medical personnel from the West Bank who are authorized to work in East Jerusalem, where six Palestinian hospitals are located.

        Arab markets out of bounds

        When it comes to the purchase of medicine, the Palestinian health system is also subject to limitations and subject to economic agreements with Israel. The import of medicines into the territories is limited to drugs that are also registered in Israel, which in practice blocks access to drugs from neighboring Arab markets that can supply medicine at a lower price. There are also limitations on the import of raw materials for the production of medications, as well as on drug exports.

        Nonetheless, Israeli limitations on Palestinian medical services are not the only explanation for the circumstances in which the Palestinian health-care system finds itself, and clearly does not absolve the Palestinian leadership and bureaucrats of responsibility for their citizenry. Twenty years is arguably sufficient time for the Palestinians to have developed a proper health-care system.

        This also prompts the question of where on its scale of priorities the Palestinian leadership has placed the medical system. The question becomes particularly relevant in light of corruption scandals and the alleged flow of sizeable amounts of money over the years to senior Palestinian officials, as well as the large sums that have found their way into the development of underground terrorist infrastructure rather than above-ground medical facilities.

        Officials at Physicians for Human Rights express the belief that disparities between the Israeli and Palestinian health-care systems will only widen in the future. As long as Israel continues to exert influence on the ground, they claim, it must take full responsibility for the health of the Palestinians and provide them with health care that is equal to what the residents of Israel receive.

        “It is among the obligations of the Palestinian Health Ministry to provide health-care services to the population to the extent of its capacity,” said Mor Efrat, who is the coordinator of the PHR department that deals with the territories and headed the team that produced the report. “But it is Israel’s obligation to provide all the services beyond the [Palestinians’] capacity, so that a Palestinian child and an Israeli child, who sometimes live just hundreds of meters from one another, receive equal medical care.”

      • jon s
        April 17, 2016, 3:35 pm

        Marnie,
        Here are the dictionary definitions (Webster):

        Universal =done or experienced by everyone : existing or available for everyone

        Mandatory= required by a law or rule

        So neither “universal” nor “mandatory” mean “free”.

        Every Israeli citizen (universal) is required by law (mandatory ) to have health insurance. I didn’t say it’s free. And I’m well aware of the problems -inequality, over-crowding, long waiting lists and more. The system is far from perfect.

      • amigo
        April 17, 2016, 5:19 pm

        “Marnie,
        Here are the dictionary definitions (Webster):

        Universal =done or experienced by everyone : existing or available for everyone

        Mandatory= required by a law or rule

        So neither “universal” nor “mandatory” mean “free”.” jon s

        Too bad teach , you can not be quite so precise about the sequence of priority of the terms , “Justice and accountability ” when you are lecturing your students.

        Accountability comes first.Justice follows .Without the threat of accountability, there will be no justice and criminals will continue to commit their crimes —eg , Israel.

        You have to be one of the most hollow individuals I have ever had the displeasure of knowing .How do you sleep at night , knowing you are poisoning young minds day after day.God help you to see the error in your ways so you can rescue your offspring before they end up just like you.

      • Marnie
        April 18, 2016, 12:34 am

        Not surprising that you (plus the new kid on the block, “silamcuz”) feel that alls well in the land of milk and honey (“as long as you belong to the correct ethnoreligious category”). You did mention, “the system is far from perfect”. Meaning what, if they work a little harder, they can start refusing medical care to Palestinians as SOP?

        If I were Palestinian, firstly, no one would give a damn how I felt, but if I were Palestinian I wouldn’t want any israeli Jewish doctors or nurses putting their hands on me or mine and I’d only want to room with other Palestinian women. However, that would be almost a guarantee of getting no care at all, it would be too easy to ignore us if we were segregated. and its easy enough to as it is, but separation would guarantee it. So I would end up where I started, at the mercy of a system that would rather see me dead, and question whether my baby is going to be ‘another terrorist’ as I look at a Jewish mother and wonder if her son or daughter is going to grow up to kill mine.

      • Marnie
        April 18, 2016, 1:03 am

        One more thing, “jon s” – I didn’t need a definition for “universal” or “mandatory”; I’m well aware of what they mean and would think that as an educator you should know “univeral” is a word that cannot be used in an apartheid state in any way except to state “The occupation/apartheid state of israel is a criminal enterprise and must end for the universal well-being of humankind”.
        And mandatory is just another stupid word that doesn’t mean anything if you don’t have the means, right?

      • jon s
        April 18, 2016, 6:37 am

        amigo,
        The topic here was health insurance in israel, which you’ve diverted to yet another personal attack. Oh, well..
        I’m sorry that I’ve come across as “hollow”. (Truly sorry, not being cynical).
        I’m not going to try to describe how you come across. After all, we’re not involved in a competition over knowledge, intelligence, experience and so forth. And you’ve volunteered very little information about yourself.

      • Mooser
        April 18, 2016, 11:11 am

        “And you’ve volunteered very little information about yourself.”

        And you, “Jon s” ‘volunteered’ a freakin’ lie about a “terrorist attack on Beersheva” to cover up the murder of an innocent man by crazed settlers, because he had the wrong color skin.

        For Gawdass’ sake “Jon s”, why do you think anybody and everybody can’t see through you? Because of the +15?

      • jon s
        April 18, 2016, 2:31 pm

        Marnie,
        Again, health insurance in Israel is universal and mandatory, in the sense that all citizens ,regardless of ethnicity, are covered, by law.
        I never said that all’s well, I said the sytem is far from perfect and pointed out some of the problems.

      • Mooser
        April 18, 2016, 5:08 pm

        “I never said that all’s well, I said…”

        “I’ve never deliberately lied on this blog. Not that I would be caught” “Jon s” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/jon-s/?keyword=deliberately+lie%25#sthash.TbvFLkqk.dpuf

      • Marnie
        April 19, 2016, 12:44 am

        “…all citizens are covered by law” ??

        That’s a pretty messed up sentence coming from an ‘educator’. All citizens aren’t covered by law. Period. And you still can’t apply the term “universal”.
        You have to apply for health coverage – you don’t arrive and get a stamp on your forehead that declares you are covered by insurance.

        You should have stopped already because you aren’t making the state’s case at all. Your license to practice hasbara may be in danger of revocation.

      • diasp0ra
        April 19, 2016, 6:37 am

        @jon s

        In theory. Practice is a whole other Matter. In theory in Israel citizens are equal mostly, that doesn’t stop Arab communities from receiving only 6 percent of ministry of culture budget. Or non Jewish jerusalemites receiving a fraction of Jewish ones from the state when it comes to budget. Etc.

        Actually even in theory not all Israelis are equal so I guess I take that last statement back.

  5. echinococcus
    April 16, 2016, 12:21 am

    “We respect mothers’ requests, when orthodox mothers don’t want to share a room, we will respect that request. It isn’t racism.”

    Oh, OK, racist practice isn’t racism.

    Zionists: the last fascists who don’t use fig leaves.

    • silamcuz
      April 17, 2016, 6:04 am

      Actually, this can be argued to be perfectly reasonable and not racism at all. We are all entitled to a safe space when we are most vulnerable, and often, space space means being surrounded by people like us and those who share the same interests as us.

      On the other hand, it doesn’t give us the right to demand others to forfeit their own right to the medical facility, which would be racism. If they requested respectfully and without infringing upon the rights of others, I see no problem in it.

      • Mooser
        April 17, 2016, 11:44 am

        “We are all entitled…/…people like us…us”

        Whatsamatter afraid you will catch the trefe, from the person in the next bed?

      • Annie Robbins
        April 17, 2016, 1:24 pm

        We are all entitled to a safe space when we are most vulnerable

        we are? because last i heard there are lots of people who have no such entitlement when they are most vulnerable. in fact, often the most vulnerable are the ones least likely to be afforded any entitlement to a safe space whatsoever. especially in an apartheid state like israel, the very idea that the most vulnerable are entitled to ‘safe space’ seems absurd. maybe you don’t mean ‘entitled’, the definition being “believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment.”.

      • just
        April 17, 2016, 1:38 pm

        silamcuz is the newest Hasbarist.

        ‘Welcome’.

      • Mooser
        April 17, 2016, 3:57 pm

        “If they requested respectfully…”

        ROTFLMSJAO! Yup, “respectfully” saying that your race, religion, ethnicity, whatever, ‘entitles’ you to a “safe space”. That’s real respectful.

        So maybe Israel should go “separate but equal” and avoid those problems by having separate hospitals.

      • chocopie
        April 17, 2016, 4:19 pm

        No. Segregated hospital wards lead inevitably to unequal provision of medical care. Now, you might think that I and 98% of my fellow US citizens should be able to check into a hospital and request “no Jews, please,” and you might think it would be fine to have separate Jewish wards so the rest of us can have a safe space, but I think you’re wrong.

      • amigo
        April 17, 2016, 5:31 pm

        “If they requested respectfully and without infringing upon the rights of others, I see no problem in it.” silmacuz

        Try this!!.

        Hospital registration clerk to incoming patient.

        “Are there any special requirements you have before we take you to your “Ward”.

        Patient,

        “I am not a racist , “but” , I do not want to be treated by a Jewish nurse/doctor and I most definitely do not want to be in a ward with any patient who is Jewish.Their presence makes me uncomfortable , especially when I am vulnerable.How can I recover under such distressing conditions.”

        See any problem there ???.

      • echinococcus
        April 17, 2016, 7:04 pm

        “Respectfully”? I’ll give you respectful! Whaddayamean, “respectfully”, citizens are the goddamn members of society and the hospital system is in their pay. It’s service to the citizen that should be respectful.
        But legal it ain’t. Not in the States, where asking for segregated facilities is f*ckin* racism, period, and Verboten. Similarly Verboten is any federal or anyhow government aid or support to anyone or any organization, domestic or foreign, like the Zionist entity, that practices racial segregation. If, that is, the US ever had any laws, which it don’t and didn’t.

      • Antidote
        April 17, 2016, 9:54 pm

        “Actually, this can be argued to be perfectly reasonable and not racism at all.”

        Actually, no. More accurately, to let people get away with such requests is a sure way to perpetuate and entrench racism, and simultaneously enable them to deny that it exists. It is Orwellian and pathological. People who make such requests should be respectfully asked to go give birth at home, or wherever they feel safe.

        Let’s try a few other scenarios:

        Do you think it would be reasonable for a straight patient to request not to share a room with a gay or lesbian? Or be treated by one? Or vice versa?

        Or a Muslim man refusing to be treated by a female doctor or nurse, or take any orders from them? A German, French or Belgian citizen refusing to share a room with a fellow Muslim citizen, or Syrian refugee because he or she may be a terrorist, or carrier of disease?

        Now find a coherent, reasonable response to all of those requests.

        And do have a look at this page published by an institute chaired by neocon Bolton. Read the comments, too. Then apply to the original Israeli scenario while remembering that you were talking about citizens of the same state, with allegedly equal rights

        http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/6838/germany-migration-health-crisis

      • Marnie
        April 18, 2016, 2:37 am

        Another comedian, oh boy!

      • WH
        April 18, 2016, 3:05 am

        Annie, on a side note: defining “entitled” as “believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment” is incorrect modern usage; the correct meaning is actually having a particular right.

      • Annie Robbins
        April 18, 2016, 11:50 am

        the correct meaning is actually having a particular right.

        WH, according to oxford dictionaries:

        http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/entitled

        Believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment:
        ‘his pompous, entitled attitude’
        ‘kids who feel so entitled and think the world will revolve around them’

        and websters: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitlement

        Full Definition of entitlement

        1
        a : the state or condition of being entitled : right
        b : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract
        2
        : a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program
        3
        : belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges

        so while i wouldn’t disagree the meaning is “actually having a particular right”, that definition excludes the “belief” one has the right. if one opens the link for “right” at websters 1a. it says

        Full Definition of entitle

        transitive verb
        1
        : to give a title to : designate
        2
        : to furnish with proper grounds for seeking or claiming something

        taking that into consideration, in the context of the way it was originally used “We are all entitled to a safe space when we are most vulnerable”, as well as the followup explanation by the poster:

        it is totally within the person’s right to pursue a treatment environment that unconditionally cater to the person’s standard

        having something “within a person’s right to purse” is not the same as “being entitled to”.. iow, something being designated to you by the government or given a title to (wester’s 1a designated)is not the same as having a right to pursue something on one’s own that the government or some other body has not entitled you with. there simply is no entitlement for everyone to have a ‘safe space’ when they feel vulnerable. but as far as pursuing goes — one can pursue anything they want, but it doesn’t mean they have a right (entitlement) to anything they want.

      • silamcuz
        April 18, 2016, 5:08 am

        It appears that many of you are arguing against my comment from a place of privilege, and missing the nuance of the issue at hand by conflating a personal decision with systematic discrimination in the health sector.

        “No. Segregated hospital wards lead inevitably to unequal provision of medical care”

        “I do not want to be treated by a Jewish nurse/doctor and I most definitely do not want to be in a ward with any patient who is Jewish”

        “Muslim man refusing to be treated by a female doctor or nurse, or take any orders from them?”

        In my view, a medical treatment is one of the most personal things someone have to go through and it is totally within the person’s right to pursue a treatment environment that unconditionally cater to the person’s standard, whatever it may be. When I seek to see a doctor or visit a medical facility, I go out of my way to find physicians from the same ethnic/racial background as I am because at this stage of my life, I really don’t want to concede any form of discomfort or mistrust when undergoing such a private matter. Plus, it really makes me feel good to be treated by a person from my own community, and knowing me going to them help support us as a greater community, holistically. There is no way I view my choice as a racist or discriminatory.

        How is it racist if I decide to act on my own agency and seek medical treatment that I find most trustworthy for my own well being? As long as I’m not actively stopping someone else from doing the same thing, I see no issue in it.

        TLDR: I see nothing wrong with private individuals choosing doctors or treatments based on race, religion, gender, nationality etc as their selection criteria. It’s their body and their health after all. Everyone should be entitled to the same privilege.

      • gamal
        April 18, 2016, 10:12 am

        “It appears that many of you are arguing against my comment from a place of privilege”

        but then..

        “How is it racist if I decide to act on my own agency and seek medical treatment that I find most trustworthy for my own well being? As long as I’m not actively stopping someone else from doing the same thing, I see no issue in it.”

        thats too funny.

      • Annie Robbins
        April 18, 2016, 12:09 pm

        gamal, here is what i thought was funny:

        . When I seek to see a doctor or visit a medical facility, I go out of my way to find physicians from the same ethnic/racial background as I am because … I really don’t want to concede any form of discomfort or mistrust when undergoing such a private matter ……How is it racist if I decide to act on my own….

        it appears the prospects of this poster, encountering any person whose ethnic/racial background is not the same as his own, means he has to “concede” to discomfort. it would never occur to me to question the ethnic or sexual background of a medical professional if i was sick (especially a specialist who’s highly recommended — i would just make the call if it was within my budget unless there were extenuating circumstance — like a bad facility or having to travel to a foreign county w/a fascist dictator. if i found out my child had a brain tumor — i could care less if the doctor was asian if he was the best).

      • amigo
        April 18, 2016, 11:27 am

        “It appears that many of you are arguing against my comment from a place of privilege, and missing the nuance of the issue at hand by conflating a personal decision with systematic discrimination in the health sector.” silmacuz

        First it is the health sector.Then it will be the public transport sector.Then it will be the public roads system.Then it will be Public baths and then it will be sports facilities and then it will be parking lots and then it will be housing “communities” and so on and so on.

        Please note that Israel applies these discriminatory practices in all the above cases.

        We have been through all this nonsense with you before –under your prior “aka,s”.

        Try something different.This s–t is long since fossilized.

      • oldgeezer
        April 18, 2016, 12:20 pm

        @silamcuz

        You fit the textbook definition of a racist. That this escapes you only shows how deep that racism is within you and how normative such behaviour is around you in your day to day environment. Most aware racists would have had enough sense to not display it for all to see quite so easily.

      • MHughes976
        April 18, 2016, 1:10 pm

        I don’t think anyone is entitled to act on prejuduce if that action imposes cost or unpleasantness for others. Unless there is a rationally discernible difference in the ability of medical personnel to cure one’s ills or show care and consideration there is no right to put the organisation to the trouble and expense of reassigning those personnel to meet one’s wishes and no right to insult competent people by suggesting that they make the space around you unsafe – which is horrible. If this prejuduce concerns race it is (by my standards anyway; what do the moderators think?) racism.

      • Sibiriak
        April 18, 2016, 1:40 pm

        MHughes976: If this prejuduce concerns race it is (by my standards anyway; what do the moderators think?) racism.
        ——————-

        Racism. And idiocy. To seek a doctor from one’s “own community” rather than seek the best doctor.

      • eljay
        April 18, 2016, 2:10 pm

        || silamcuz: … In my view, a medical treatment is one of the most personal things someone have to go through and it is totally within the person’s right to pursue a treatment environment that unconditionally cater to the person’s standard, whatever it may be. When I seek to see a doctor or visit a medical facility, I go out of my way to find physicians from the same ethnic/racial background as I am because at this stage of my life, I really don’t want to concede any form of discomfort or mistrust when undergoing such a private matter. Plus, it really makes me feel good to be treated by a person from my own community, and knowing me going to them help support us as a greater community, holistically. … ||

        When it comes to medical treatment – or home renovations or car repairs or just about anything else – my nod goes to the best-qualified person I can find.

        Doctor1: I’m highly-qualified to perform this operation. My success rate is 100%.
        Patient: Thanks, but I’d rather see Doctor2. He is of the same ethnic/racial background as me.
        [Some time later…]
        Doctor2: I botched the procedure and, well, you’re going to die. Sorry about that.
        Patient: That’s okay. My wife and children will manage without me. All that matters is supporting us as a greater community, holistically.

      • jon s
        April 18, 2016, 2:41 pm

        silamcuz,
        Just like noone on the medical staff can refuse to treat a patient because of the patient’s race, religion, ethnicity, politics, gender, sexual orientation, so, too, a patient should not be able to refuse treatment because of the identity of the staff member. Such considerations have no place in medical treatment, and your comment reveals that you’re a bigot.

      • Marnie
        April 19, 2016, 12:53 am

        You sound so much like jon s, blithely describing your racism with such ease. Butter wouldn’t melt in your mouth I bet. You guys (?) compliment each other perfectly.

      • silamcuz
        April 19, 2016, 2:19 am

        Old Geezer

        “You fit the textbook definition of a racist. That this escapes you only shows how deep that racism is within you and how normative such behaviour is around you in your day to day environment”

        I am racist because I act within my rights as a patient to seek medical treatment according to my own wishes? Is it not my body I am treating, using my own money to pay for it?

        Anyways, choosing physicians based on race or ethnic group is perfectly natural and widespread according to research done by many medical universities. One report published by the US National Library of Medicine states that

        “When patients have a choice, they are likely to choose a doctor of the same race or ethnic background and they are more likely to be satisfied with their care”. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1124573/)

        So, please spare me of your malicious accusations and know that I will continue to favor going to a doctor and support medical practices from my own people. I would make sure my children does the same thing, and be happy with the thought that through healing ourselves, we will be empowering our own community.

      • silamcuz
        April 19, 2016, 2:56 am

        “Racism. And idiocy. To seek a doctor from one’s “own community” rather than seek the best doctor.” – Sibiriak

        “When it comes to medical treatment – or home renovations or car repairs or just about anything else – my nod goes to the best-qualified person I can find.” – Eljay

        “o, a patient should not be able to refuse treatment because of the identity of the staff member. Such considerations have no place in medical treatment,” – Jon S

        “it would never occur to me to question the ethnic or sexual background of a medical professional if i was sick (especially a specialist who’s highly recommended” – Annie Robbins

        The above are all statements written from a privileged viewpoint and fail to include the nuance and intricacies of undergoing medical treatment as a minority or a non-white person, in a country where physicians and medical staff are overwhelmingly white.

        Also I find it funny these people assume that by choosing a doctor from a person’s own ethnic or racial group, it automatically means that the choice would be inferior compared to choosing “the best doctor”. Is this some sort of subtle racist way to say the best physicians are usually white so why bother going to a black or brown one? I would argue that we all, regardless of race or ethnicity, would seek a qualified doctor with proper education from medical schools. It is a moot point saying you will seek the best doctor instead of choosing a doctor from your own background. These are not mutually exclusive.

        Lastly, it simply doesn’t matter how good a doctor is and how technologically advanced the facilities are, if the people running the practice hold racist, hateful opinions of yourself and your people which is definitely endemic within the American health sector. Until you have experienced a lifetime of bad experiences as a non-white patient in US hospitals, you should keep your opinions to yourselves.

      • diasp0ra
        April 19, 2016, 6:39 am

        Actually no. You just used a racist argument. With this logic you could have defended South African white exclusive towns.

      • eljay
        April 19, 2016, 8:47 am

        || silamcuz: … “When it comes to medical treatment – or home renovations or car repairs or just about anything else – my nod goes to the best-qualified person I can find.” – Eljay …

        The above are all statements written from a privileged viewpoint and fail to include the nuance and intricacies of undergoing medical treatment as a minority or a non-white person, in a country where physicians and medical staff are overwhelmingly white. … ||

        I don’t believe that trying to find the best-qualified person is a “privileged viewpoint”. I think it’s what most – if not all – people try to do. Please explain why you think that non-whites don’t care enough about themselves to try to find the best-qualified person.

        || … Also I find it funny these people assume that by choosing a doctor from a person’s own ethnic or racial group, it automatically means that the choice would be inferior compared to choosing “the best doctor”. … ||

        I don’t believe that trying to find the best-qualified person rules out one’s own ethnic or racial group. Please explain why you seem to think it does.

      • oldgeezer
        April 19, 2016, 12:36 pm

        @silamcuz

        Nothing malicious about it. It’s textbook bigotry and racism. You might want to read your own link. While it does not come to definitive conclusions it does identify bigotry/racism as one of the reasons why patients may feel that way. I’m not a racist because other racists feel the same way is not an argument.

      • Mooser
        April 19, 2016, 1:48 pm

        “old geezer” if you like, go take another look at “silamcruz” on the “Spirit of Sumud” thread.

        We got us another spinner.

      • oldgeezer
        April 19, 2016, 4:17 pm

        @Mooser

        He spins so fast he’d be amazing if he accepted a career as a heavy lift helicopter.

        Same philosophy as rugal/a4. It’s actually a bit of fun to watch him tie himself in knots.

      • Mooser
        April 19, 2016, 4:57 pm

        “Same philosophy as rugal/a4.”

        I was going to call it “universalist whataboutery” but then I realized, it’s just good old No. 4 (“Everything Sucks”) but now encompassing the entire world!

      • Sibiriak
        April 19, 2016, 10:56 pm

        Silamcuz: Also I find it funny these people assume that by choosing a doctor from a person’s own ethnic or racial group, it automatically means that the choice would be inferior compared to choosing “the best doctor”. [emphasis added]
        ————

        I find your idiotic straw man funny. “These people”?? Match please.

      • Sibiriak
        April 19, 2016, 11:06 pm

        Mooser: I was going to call it “universalist whataboutery”
        ——————

        It’s not really universalist. More like “intersectional whataboutery” — keep the focus on the intersecting struggles of different oppressed groups (“tribes”), Jews included, vs. the White Enemy.

        Cf. “Jewish organizations look to co-opt ‘intersectionality’ in the fight against BDS

        http://mondoweiss.net/2016/01/jewish-organizations-look-to-co-opt-intersectionality-in-the-fight-against-bds/

        As the great practitioner of intersectional whataboutery, ex-white rugal b, put it:

        .… all systems of oppression are interlinked, whether it is against blacks, gays, Jews, Muslims etc.Therefore it is unwise, IMO, to confine yourself to a specific part of a conflict, or a particular form of oppression without looking into the bigger picture and understanding the root causes, rather than just analyzing the symptoms.

        […] How do you solve one, without taking into account the others as they are all interlinked wrt to their victims and oppressors?

        ****
        At the end of the day, this is Israel’s wrong to right. Not anyone else, especially white Americans who have oceans of blood on their hands. So white Americans, stay on your lane and shut up already.

      • Sibiriak
        April 20, 2016, 1:27 am

        silamcuz: if the people running the practice hold racist, hateful opinions
        —————-

        If there are racist doctors or administrators, the solution is to re-educate them or fire them, not create a racially/ethnically segregated health care system or encourage self-segregation.
        —————-

        [silamcuz: ] When I seek to see a doctor or visit a medical facility, I go out of my way to find physicians from the same ethnic/racial background as I am because at this stage of my life, I really don’t want to concede any form of discomfort or mistrust when undergoing such a private matter. [emphasis added]

        So, say you are Jewish, you mistrust any non-Jewish doctor? You distrust and don’t feel comfortable with African-American doctors? Chinese-American doctors? Indian-American doctors? Irish-American doctors? ETC.

        It seems you are steeped in ethnic prejudice, trapped in a “tribal” mentality. I don’t know what “stage of life” you are in, but it’s never to late to open your mind and examine your prejudices.

        You might want to consider taking a course on prejudice and/or joining a support group. There are also a number of web sites that have useful information for individuals seeking to overcome their prejudices.

        For example:

        Teaching Tolerance: Test Yourself for Hidden Bias
        http://www.tolerance.org/activity/test-yourself-hidden-bias

        Beyond Prejudice: Reducing Your Prejudicial Behavior
        http://www.beyondprejudice.com/reduce_your.html

        How to Overcome Personal Prejudice — Three Steps
        http://www.wikihow.com/Overcome-Personal-Prejudice

        The Top 10 Strategies for Reducing Prejudice
        http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/top_10_strategies_for_reducing_prejudice

      • silamcuz
        April 20, 2016, 5:14 am

        Eljay :

        I don’t believe that trying to find the best-qualified person rules out one’s own ethnic or racial group. Please explain why you seem to think it does.

        I think exactly the opposite of what you are implying I think.

        Read my initial comment again; I stated that I tend to choose physicians from the same race and ethnic background as mine because it gives me a sense of comfort, and help improve the bonds between me and members of my community. What I did not state was I didn’t care about the doctor’s qualification or capabilities, nor would I prioritize one(race) factor over the other(qualifications).

        In response to my comment, you along with others stated that you, as opposed to me, would choose the most qualified doctor instead. You, along with others, assumed that because I view race or ethnicity as a factor in my choice for medical treatment, I do not care about the quality of the treatment. How or why did you make this connection?

      • eljay
        April 20, 2016, 8:58 am

        || silamcuz: … I think exactly the opposite of what you are implying I think. … ||

        Since we agree that trying to find the best-qualified person does not rule out one’s own ethnic or racial group, I fail to understand why you would    ” … find it funny these people assume that by choosing a doctor from a person’s own ethnic or racial group, it automatically means that the choice would be inferior compared to choosing “the best doctor”. … “

        I neither said nor implied that it would.

      • Sibiriak
        April 20, 2016, 10:26 am

        silamcuz: You, along with others, assumed that because I view race or ethnicity as a factor in my choice for medical treatment, I do not care about the quality of the treatment. How or why did you make this connection? [emphasis added] .

        —————–

        Because you originally wrote:

        I go out of my way to find physicians from the same ethnic/racial background … [emphasis added]

        Now you are trying to dial that back; now it’s not going out of your way in terms of race/ethnicity, it’s just considering race/ethnicity as “a factor “.

        Moreover, the criticism was not that you didn’t consider quality of treatment as “a factor”, but that you didn’t make it the top priority .

        Enough with the grade school sophistry. Stop insulting our intelligence.

      • silamcuz
        April 20, 2016, 10:40 am

        Sibiriak

        “If there are racist doctors or administrators, the solution is to re-educate them or fire them, not create a racially/ethnically segregated health care system or encourage self-segregation”

        Feel free to start without me. I am more interested in self-preservation than bringing enlightenment onto random racist doctors, nurses, admins, teachers or whatever that I have no desire in interacting with. Again it’s my money, my body, my choice.

        “It seems you are steeped in ethnic prejudice, trapped in a “tribal” mentality. I don’t know what “stage of life” you are in, but it’s never to late to open your mind and examine your prejudices.”

        No thanks. I am actually very happy with the current “tribal mentality” state of my social and professional networks. They are well-integrated, high functioning and generally, make my life easier and more pleasant while causing no trouble for anyone else. You want to open up and be friends with everyone and everything, go right ahead. I say let us live and let live.

      • Mooser
        April 20, 2016, 11:21 am

        “More like “intersectional whataboutery”

        Yup, that’s much better. I wasn’t happy with “universalist”. Yours is better, and is herewith adopted by general acclimatization. That is, it’s pretty cool.

        Look, I’d like to discuss this further, but I’m very busy. I’m scheduling my next heart attack, bout of cancer or motorcycle accident, choosing my hospital mates, doctors, on social and ethnic grounds. You know, all that stuff you control in a health emergency.
        Oh, wait, I’ll have to start all over, won’t I, and find out if those people are willing to be in the hospital with me?

      • Sibiriak
        April 20, 2016, 11:53 am

        silamcuz: I am more interested in self-preservation
        ———————

        You’ve yet to explain why “going out of your way” to avoid, say, non-Jewish doctors is necessary to protect your life.

        Exactly what is the danger you are so worried about?

        Notice, you did NOT say you would “go out of your way” to avoid racist doctors. You said you go out of your way to avoid ALL doctors not from your ethnic tribe.

        So, again I ask, why would you feel that African-American doctors, Chinese-American doctors, Indian-American doctors, Irish -American doctors or whatever might present some kind of danger to you– based on their ethnicity alone?
        ————

        I am actually very happy with the current “tribal mentality” state of my social and professional networks.

        Not surprising. Most bigots find comfort in their bigotry and self-segregation. And, no doubt, the benefits can be real.

        ————

        I will continue to favor going to a doctor and support medical practices from my own people.

        Who the hell are your “own people”. C’mon, spit it out.

    • silamcuz
      April 20, 2016, 11:36 am

      Sibiriak :

      “Because you originally wrote:

      I go out of my way to find physicians from the same ethnic/racial background … [emphasis added]

      Now you are trying to dial that back; now it’s not going out of your way in terms of race/ethnicity, it’s just considering race/ethnicity as “a factor “.”

      When I go out of my way to choose a doctor from my own ethnic group, it means I definitely consider the race/ethnicity as factor for my choice, which I do.

      The reason I have to go out of my way is because the American medical sector along with the medical practitioners are overwhelmingly white, even in the more diverse cities. This is even more true for specialists which I am particularly fussy about. Unless I put in the effort to research and organize my appointments, chances are I would have to settle going to a white-run practice when I need to see a doctor which while is perfectly fine, still is not as rewarding as going to a doctor from my ethnicity/race.

      See, these are the nuances and intricacies that I didn’t expect you to get in the first place, because you have never been in my shoes. I don’t have the privilege of being able to see a doctor from the same ethnicity/race as easily as you do (assuming you are white).

      • Annie Robbins
        April 20, 2016, 5:55 pm

        the American medical sector along with the medical practitioners are overwhelmingly white, even in the more diverse cities.

        i don’t think that’s correct. for example. i googed zocdoc san francisco, there are tens of pages of doctors, this is the first page for united health care (and i am sure many of these doctors accept other insurance):
        https://www.zocdoc.com/primary-care-doctors/san-francisco-6785pm/unitedhealthcare-323m

        Dr. Kyo Lee, MD
        Dr. Neesheet Parikh
        Dr. Sharmin Qureshi, MD
        Dr. Vladimir Skorokhod, MD
        Dr. Maryam Amini, MD
        Dr. Agaton Gualberto, MD
        Dr. Arbella Sarkis, MD
        Dr. Jie Ling, MD, PhD
        Dr. A. Richard Adrouny, MD

        seattle looks equally diverse, as does las vegas and tuscon https://www.zocdoc.com/primary-care-doctors/tucson-249786pm

        every city i tried, even Minneapolis the first name that pops up is Dr. Tajudeen Fawole, MD https://www.zocdoc.com/primary-care-doctors/minneapolis-mn-274358pm and he looks black. where do you live silam? heck, even oklahoma city has got a wide range of diversity in the medical profession.

      • gamal
        April 20, 2016, 6:31 pm

        “Dr. Tajudeen Fawole, MD link to zocdoc.com and he looks black”

        good god guessing by the name he is a Muslim Yoruba from Osun state in Nigeria, jees, who treats the white people, Perhaps Dr. Agaton, a Fawole is Nigerian chess champion, I think he is a Christian one though do you think he would go to Dr. Taj.

      • echinococcus
        April 20, 2016, 8:46 pm

        Who’s that clueless booby, again? Looks like he’s never heard the news that medicine cannot be studied any longer in the US, everything being for profit. MDs are essentially imported and so part of the medical care expenses for every patient are being paid by the taxpayers of the countries who train the exported physicians (in addition to being invaded and mass-murdered by the US.)

      • Sibiriak
        April 20, 2016, 9:07 pm

        silamcuz: I don’t have the privilege of being able to see a doctor from the same ethnicity/rac –
        ———————–

        In what way do you think doctors from a different ethnicity/race threaten your “self-preservation”?

        FOR THE THIRD TIME I ask: why would you feel that African-American doctors, Chinese-American doctors, Indian-American doctors, Irish -American doctors or whatever might present some kind of danger to you– based on their ethnicity alone?

        Why, do you perceive, for example, a doctor of Indian ancestry as a threat, someone who you would distrust and therefore avoid?
        —————–

        the American medical sector along with the medical practitioners are overwhelmingly white

        Why do you fear and distrust “white” doctors?

        Do you count Jewish doctors of European ancestry as “white” and go out of your way to avoid them as well?

      • silamcuz
        April 21, 2016, 4:39 am

        Sibiriak, you are being irrelevant asking these questions, which you wouldn’t ask a person a real life, yet you feel entitled to be answered to here.

        A private individual has the absolute right to choose a service catering to him or herself, be that in the matter of health, education or entertainment, without having to explain their reasoning to anyone else. Do you understand and agree with this fundamental charge?

        I am not saying hospitals or medical practices, which are subject to federal law can discriminate towards who they choose to treat. I am saying patients, as individuals have the right to choose who they wanted to be treated by without constraint on factors such as race, ethnicity,gender, nationality, religion and the like. And most people, regardless of their race, do exercise this right either consciously or subconsciously, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it.

      • bryan
        April 21, 2016, 11:05 am

        Silamcuz: “A private individual has the absolute right to choose a service catering to him or herself”

        I think you might be confused between absolute rights and free choice within a market economy. For instance:
        (1) a consumer might have a “right” to choose which hotel or restaurant to use, and the freedom to make that choice on the basis of the ethnicity of the clientele, the proprietor or the staff employed there; but that is not an absolute right, and if the service provider were to employ only staff of a given ethnicity or to discriminate against customers of other ethnicities or to display signs dictating “No blacks, no Jews, no Irish” then the courts and the authorities might very well intervene, perhaps effectively circumscribing that “absolute right”.

        (2) a very wealthy father might have the ability and the opportunity to send a child to a very expensive private school, which can afford the very best of facilities, and attract the best teachers (educated at public expense), and thus confer an advantage to that child particularly in access to the best universities thereafter. The public authorities might respond on the basis that such privilege operates against the public interest and social mobility and undermines provision of public services for the rest of the population. They might therefore attempt to circumscribe that “absolute right” by a variety of measures such as restricting tax allowances for such expenditure or encouraging or even enforcing a relaxation of entry requirements for less-privileged applicants to elite universities.

        (3) a parent might argue they have an “absolute right” to send a child to the school of their choice, perhaps a private religious school that for ideological reasons refuses to teach science (especially the theory of evolution), mathematics, computing and the humanities, and devotes an inordinate and excessive amount of time to teaching ancient religious texts. The public authorities might undermine that choice by a process of registering schools as approved educational institutions, school inspections, and the imposition of a national curriculum.

        These are not absolute rights but areas that state authorities will generally be reticent about interfering in, seeking to maximise consumer freedoms, subject to public interest considerations.

  6. JLewisDickerson
    April 16, 2016, 2:32 am

    RE: that photo of Bezalel Smotrich, who supported the segregation on an ethnic basis of women giving birth in Israel

    MY QUESTION: Is Bezalel Smotrich supposedly Semitic? I’m mostly Anglo-Saxon, and I look far more like a Semite (if I do say so myself)!
    What gives?

    Semitic people – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people

    • JLewisDickerson
      April 16, 2016, 2:42 am

      P.S. Thank God Israel is a country where whites can still proudly proclaim their racism!

      P.P.S. Bezalel Smotrich has such nice blue eyes. I’m pea green with envy!!!

      • yonah fredman
        April 18, 2016, 10:26 am

        Dickerson- the topic of Jewish racial features typified by the phrase “are you jewish, you don’t look jewish,” is an interesting topic, but this is hardly the place with wise guys and jew haters abounding for me to discuss this issue with equanimity.

      • Mooser
        April 18, 2016, 11:48 am

        “the topic of Jewish racial features…/… to discuss this issue with equanimity.”

        I know pleas to the Moderators should be made in an e-mail, but look, I am begging you, can you put some kind of warning on stuff like that?
        A disclaimer, like “Mondo will not be responsible for palpitations caused by excessive hilarity. Read at your own risk”.

        “Jewish racial features”! Let’s discuss this with “equanimity”. Now, are we talking about “white Jews” or “Jews of color”? Let’s see if we can pin the “Jewish racial features” down, once and for all!

      • amigo
        April 18, 2016, 6:51 pm

        “Dickerson- the topic of Jewish racial features typified by the phrase “are you jewish, you don’t look jewish,” is an interesting topic, but this is hardly the place with wise guys and jew haters abounding for me to discuss this issue with equanimity.” Yonah fredman

        Come on Yonah , don,t keep us guessing. Name some names It,s only fair to those who you believe they are not Jew haters.

        Let me guess your response??.

        “Those who are , know who they are.”

      • yonah fredman
        April 18, 2016, 7:10 pm

        amigo- echinoccus and keith.

      • echinococcus
        April 19, 2016, 1:49 am

        Mr Fredman seems to have lost all sense of responsibility with regard to his own words.
        One moment it’s a downright Rosenbergian interest in “Jewish racial features”, no less.
        The next moment, without even letting you breathe, he turns against his own imaginary kith and kin. Poor ole me, more biologically Jewish than a genuine kielbasa is pure pork. Me who so loved some religious family members (who were fiercely anti-Zionist.) I suppose the only way, at this point, to avoid the terrible curse of incurring the wrath of Fredman the Terrible is to convert to Catholicism.

      • amigo
        April 19, 2016, 9:36 am

        “amigo- echinoccus and keith.” Yonah Fredman

        But Freddy, isn,t anyone who condemns the policies of the so called Jewish state a Jew hater.
        All you can come up with is 3 Jew haters out of some 100 or so regular commenter s. That is hardly fit,s your description of “abounding”.

        Btw , thanks for lumping me with such illustrious company.

        The other two are quite capable of speaking for themselves but would you care to back up your accusation and show me where I, in any way displayed hatred of Jews. However , hatred of zionists—yeah guilty and proudly so.

      • eljay
        April 19, 2016, 9:44 am

        || amigo: “amigo- echinoccus and keith.” Yonah Fredman …

        Btw , thanks for lumping me with such illustrious company. … ||

        The way I read it, your name is there because he’s addressing you, not because he considers you to be a “Jew hater”.

    • amigo
      April 20, 2016, 10:59 am

      “The way I read it, your name is there because he’s addressing you, not because he considers you to be a “Jew hater”. ” eljay

      You may be right. I had a very bad English teacher or maybe he had a very bad student.We will see if Yonah concurs with your interpretation.

      • yonah fredman
        April 20, 2016, 11:09 am

        Amigo- I concur with eljay.

      • eljay
        April 20, 2016, 11:24 am

        || yonah fredman: Amigo- I concur with eljay. ||

        For that, I’m happy to buy you a coffee some time. :-)

      • Mooser
        April 20, 2016, 11:33 am

        “Amigo- I concur with eljay.”

        And “amigo” is saved from the firing squad by a last minute reprieve!

  7. Talkback
    April 16, 2016, 3:59 am

    Some mothers are more equal than equal in a Judeocracy.

  8. DavidDaoud
    April 18, 2016, 10:15 am

    My comment is a bit off topic but does involve discrimination against Arabs in the Israeli medical establishment.
    Some time ago, 2000-1, I spent time in Arab East Jerusalem, staying at the Faisal Hostel directly across from Damascus Gate.
    Dr. Amine, brother of the hostel owner, was an Eyes, Ears, Nose and Throat specialist. I remember when there was a big party to celebrate the fact that, after 10 years of making yearly applications to the Israeli Ministry of Health, Amine was finally permitted to treat Jewish patients in Jerusalem.

    • Annie Robbins
      April 18, 2016, 10:45 am

      one person who knows a lot about this topic is Dr. Hatim Kanaaneh, one of our contributors here. anyone who thinks racism is not deeply embedded in the medical establishment in israel would benefit from communicating with him.

      and here’s a brief story from “moments in palestine” by lena ibrahim

      The “Arab Hospital”

      We had just passed the last checkpoint out of the West Bank, it was around 2 am. My cousin sitting in the front began to tell us she was suffocating. She said that she felt herself having an asthma attack. She demanded we take her to the closest hospital. And that’s what we did. We arrived at the emergency counter of the first hospital we could find in Jerusalem. The Israeli women asked us for our passports. She took a brief look, read our last names out loud, looked up at us and then said “Arabs?” She then began to speak only in Hebrew, telling us that we should go to the “Arab” hospital. I stared at the lady barely understanding the Hebrew she was speaking while my cousin on the other side of me was quickly losing more breath. I was helpless because I was the wrong race.

      – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2013/10/moments-in-palestine/#sthash.m0GQo6rV.dpuf

  9. bryan
    April 18, 2016, 3:22 pm

    Phil – you have a clear ideological agenda here (:-))

    Your opening sentence clearly refers to the segregation of Jewish and Palestinian mothers, whilst all the sources you quote refer merely to Jewish and Arab mothers. Do you not understand that there is no such person as a Palestinian; there are merely Arab interlopers who have no right to be there and should have returned to Arabia, as assuredly as all Jews should return to Israel?

  10. olive52
    April 18, 2016, 4:19 pm

    If racism was so deeply embedded in the Israeli hospitals than there wouldn’t be such a large number of Arab staff (and patients) there which there is, especially Shaare Tzedek. From doctors, nurses, aides, to patients themselves, Arabs have a major presence in any given Israeli hospital.

    • a blah chick
      April 18, 2016, 5:14 pm

      Are you seriously arguing that because Palestinians work in hospitals there can be no racism against them? That’s like saying there was no segregation on American railroads because the Pullman company employed so many black porters.

      • ritzl
        April 18, 2016, 7:07 pm

        Ouch!

    • oldgeezer
      April 18, 2016, 5:53 pm

      @olive

      Given that Arab’s are 20% of the population one would expect a large number of both staff and patients. Accepting your contention as to the prevalence neither proves nor disproves anything wrt racism.

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