A conversation with Miko Peled

Activism
on 127 Comments

Four years ago Miko Peled published a memoir, The General’s Son, about his background in a prominent Israeli Jewish family and his path to international activism against Zionism. The book became a bestseller, and Peled, who lives in San Diego, began a peripatetic life as a speaker and writer on the conflict. Then in September in response to an Israeli celebration of the new 10-year $38 billion package of aid from the U.S., Peled tweeted, “Then theyr surprised Jews have reputation 4being sleazy thieves. #apartheidisrael doesn’t need or deserve these $$,” and the Princeton Committee on Palestine canceled his speech at the school, saying the tweet and others that followed were “anti-Semitic and hateful.” Jewish Voice for Peace supported the Princeton committee’s decision, also calling the tweet anti-Semitic. Peled responded that his hosts had succumbed to a quiet campaign of pro-Israel pressure; and he declined to apologize for the tweet. Many members of JVP took on their leadership for its statement, and a week later JVP’s head, Rebecca Vilkomerson, said she had made a mistake and overreached in her criticism, though she maintained that Peled’s original tweet was “reckless and inappropriate.” I am friends of all parties here, and as in other internecine battles, just wished the whole thing would go away. But (hat tip Ira Glunts) I recognized there was journalistic value in interviewing Peled about his activism and the incident. I talked to him by Skype when he was in Jerusalem in mid-November and then by phone back in the States last Sunday. 

What are you doing in Israel?

I was here for sentencing for a trial from 2015 and to participate in a conference in the village of Nabi Saleh.

Tell me about the trial.

So, one of the many times I’ve been arrested in the West Bank during a protest, for some reason the state decided to prosecute. That was a very early incident 2012, with a October 2015 trial. It was myself and two others Israeli activists, one of whom was Renen Raz who recently and very suddenly, passed away. We were acquitted ultimately. And at the very last moment the prosecution decided to appeal, and they won the appeal so the acquittal was reversed. Yesterday there was a sentencing hearing, which I would have expected would go on for a long time but it started and ended pretty fast. We ended up getting 30 days suspended sentence for three years for disturbances. Disturbances is the actual charge, not illegal gathering, so if we are caught and convicted of disturbances again we would serve 30 days in prison. And I think the reason this is worth talking about– number one because it’s politically motivated, so on the one hand it was completely nonsensical, because it has no significance for Israeli Jews, the government wants to do something but they are not prepared to actually act against us and give us a platform– the law is very kind to us as Israeli Jews. So this sentence is their way of saying, We frown upon the fact that you’re out there supporting Palestinians. Even though what we are supporting is nonviolent protests, and the non-violent resistance is the only reason there are no more armed attacks like suicide bombings for example. So the state is acting in a way typical of racist regimes, it is stupid.

The other reason this is worth discussing is that my trial highlights the difference between how the Jews are treated here and Palestinians are treated here. Had a Palestinian been arrested, at the same time, for the same violation, he or she would have been hand-cuffed, shackled, blindfolded and beaten first, then imprisoned for as long as some local officer decides they should be in prison. And then of course they don’t get an attorney until they confess. A Palestinian could be held for a year or a day, nobody knows, it’s still completely random. And so the difference between our treatment—is that we report to the police station, our lawyers are available as soon as we reach the police station. So my trial is otherwise trivial but for these two reasons.

What was the original action?

We participated in a protest in the village of Nabi Saleh in August of 2012. And what happens is, The army shows up and starts shooting. Then the Border patrol troops come in jeeps from the other side. And everyone starts running away. The border patrol starts arresting people.
The way the military describes it, they say, We all sat on a hill, which the Israeli military named “The hill of the burning tires,” and during the trial I refused to accept the term and I told the judge I will refuse testify if they use that term.” So the judge is sitting there and he’s imagining us sitting there with a bunch of burning tires, and all the Palestinians throwing rocks. And this is nonsense. Of course all that is nothing remotely close to what it actually is like. They want to portray the whole thing as if it’s violent protest.

You have the understanding that nonviolent protest is keeping Palestinians from doing suicide bombings. How widely is that understanding held in Israel, that BDS is an alternative to violence and violent protest?

The whole idea that Palestinians have a right to resist is completely alien to Israelis. Because resistance implies that there is some legitimacy to what Palestinians are saying, to their grievances. Here Palestinians are considered terrorists who want to kill us.

But I’m talking to an Israeli Jew who has that understanding. How do you have this awareness?

Well I and a handful of other Israelis decided to embark on a “journey of an Israeli into Palestine.” There are a few Israeli activists who have embarked on this journey, from the sphere of privileged Israelis to the sphere of where Palestinians live. Having done so, we see what life is like for Palestinians, and we understand the plight of the Palestinians. We understand that Palestinians have a right to resist, and their grievances are real. The reality in which they live calls for resistance, and they’re not going to sit there and take it. There are a lot of different ways to resist. Suicide missions were one way, I think you know my niece was a victim of a suicide bombing. Qassam rockets are another method. Hijacking planes is another method. This idea of the nonviolent popular resistance, is a method that Palestinians choose along with BDS. Which is working extremely well, a lot better than all the other ones.

But the right to resist– Israelis don’t like to recognize it. Once you recognize the right of Palestinians to resist, and recognize that they have legitimate grievances, then that starts a snowball effect and Israelis are terrified of the outcome. They’re terrified of the outcome. Once people recognize the legitimacy of Palestinian grievances, then inevitably it would delegitimize the state of Israel. Israelis don’t have this discussion in any form, really outside of the fringe left, radical progressives, who go out there and do recognize it. And also who are very anti-Zionist.

In the US, there is a growing movement of anti-Zionism among young Jews. I think the smartest young Jews on campus are engaged and becoming anti-Zionist. Is there no analog in Israeli society? And what is the effect of these young Jews on Israeli Jewish consciousness?

Young American Jews that have an openness to progressive ideas meet Palestinians when they go to college. So if they already have that openness, and willingness to hear, they’re going to see students from Palestine. Argue with them, disagree with them, agree with them. That interaction exists. Israelis do not interact with Palestinians. One of the things I describe in book: My journey to Palestine began in San Diego. That possibility for Israelis to meet Palestinians– they have to embark on a journey to a very dangerous and not faraway geographically but faraway place where the Arabs live. But here you go to campuses. So there is that interaction. And I think I don’t know the numbers, but the beauty of Jewish activists who support the cause of Palestinian justice, is that they don’t have a big sign saying I am Jewish. They say, I am a person, this is a consciousness, this is a struggle, I’m participating. I’m also Jewish by the way. In SJP [Students for Justice in Palestine chapters] lot of kids are Jewish and they care for this issue.

Wait, I’ve seen people wearing t-shirts, another Jew for divestment. What’s wrong with that?

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with it, if they show up because they are Jewish. But they show up because they care. As opposed to synagogues and the mainstream American Jewish establishments, which make a big deal of their heritage. This is in stark contrast to this very ugly way that we see the banners, We support Israel, on the walls of synagogues, it’s just a different way of expressing it. It’s a good thing, if they happen to be Jewish.

So what is the possible effect of this on Israelis.

Well, Israelis are terrified of that. Israel is absolutely terrified of that. I know this because– a couple examples. The Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth, it has many reports and stories how the BDS is infecting Jews in the one country that’s our best friend, America. Then there was a big caucus in March in Jerusalem, on how to fight the BDS. Which is the general word for Palestinian activism. And their biggest concern is how these young innocent Jews are being pulled into this by all kinds of — like Ali Abunimah and Omar Barghouti and so forth. The likes of them. They’re being fooled into this. They’re naïve and being fooled into thinking there’s some kind of legitimacy to this. This is where Israel has fallen short, by not doing enough to bring back these Jews to the fold.

Then Israeli 10 News came out to the US a couple of months ago and did a four or five chapter series on precisely that, on how the BDS affected young Jews in particular. They interviewed me – described me as the “nightmare of the Israeli Hasbara” — and interviewed Chomsky and a bunch of Jewish activists students on campuses. Again, the lesson for Israel from this was, that Israel is not doing enough to bring back these Jews to the fold, Israel is falling short in propaganda. So the Israelis are terrified, but at the same time they are not willing to acknowledge what the problem is. It’s kind of a catch 22 they’re embroiled in, and I for one have to say that seeing this endless spiral down, this tailspin– this is encouraging. They can’t act on the problem, because it’s about Israeli legitimacy and that is the Holy Grail. Israel spends millions of dollars to combat the Palestinian solidarity movement because it is afraid to lose its legitimacy in the eyes of Americans. A conference was held called “How to fight the BDS” and they had Mossad operatives saying that Mossad hasn’t yet used all of its methods, haven’t used all the tools to fight BDS. This is a real terrorist threat, like Iran. All that kind of rhetoric.

The ministry of strategic affairs was in put in charge, Gilad Erdan, and he came out a week ago and called to citizens to try to identify the BDS people from regular tourists and then report them. Because BDS activists hide among regular tourists, so they’re like terrorist cells. So the level of paranoia and insanity, it’s unbelievable. There’s a sense of panic. The idea that there will be some kind of openness here like there is among Jews in America– I don’t see that happening.

Where are you talking from today?

I’m in Jerusalem in the house where I grew up, the house I stay when I’m here. The room that used to be my father’s study.

Who’s that picture of behind you on the shelf?

That is my maternal grandfather. Avraham Katsnelson. He was a member of the pre-state Jewish government in Palestine. He’s my namesake, and he was one of the signers on the Israeli declaration of independence.

When are you back in the States?

I’ll be back in a couple weeks. Officially I live in San Diego. But I travel a lot.

Have you always had such a nomadic life? Or did your journey produce it?

The nomadic life began almost immediately as soon as the book came out. Actually before it came out, when an interview posted on YouTube got millions of views. When the book came out that was it, I became a full-time speaker. That was in spring 2012.

Is that life as a hunted animal or an outcast or a prophet? Why did this happen to you?

It’s none of the things you described. I enjoy it tremendously. I meet the absolutely finest people I’ve ever seen in my life. I am treated with great respect and invited to speak in the best places anybody can imagine. I’m not at all a prophet. I’m just repeating things other people have said. But for some reason when I say it, my voice carries. Because of my background, because I have pictures behind me of my grandfather, my voice carries more weight. And I take full advantage of that. It’s not at all negative. It’s a very positive experience.

You were invited to Princeton, one of our best places. You were disinvited. And SUNY too?

Flyer for Peled's Princeton event, canceled

Flyer for Peled’s Princeton event, canceled

No, the SUNY campus was great. I had a wonderful lecture there, a lot of people came. I spoke a week or two before the Princeton thing. I spoke at SUNY Geneseo, I spoke at Cazenovia. I spoke– the week after that was at Rutgers. I was supposed to speak in Princeton, that was canceled at the last minute. Then there was a small event in San Diego and I had volunteered to help out. They got freaked out from what happened at Princeton and they called and asked me not to come. I said look it’s your event. I said if you prefer that I don’t come. I said, it’s your environment. I’m fine with that.

What was the venue?

The SJP San Diego State University. That too was taken out of proportion. The student newspaper interviewed me, and acted as if there was some crisis of faith or a crisis of relationship, or split in the camp. You know? I told them what I’m telling you. I was happy to help when they wanted, they decided to do it without me. I’m fine with that. The purpose is really about getting the message out. I’m one of many people who are out there doing this. If I can be available that’s great, if not then I’m fine with that too. It’s not about whether they canceled me.

Tell me about Princeton.

The situation at Princeton was odd. As I arrived, I got an email from the activist, we’re cancelling, are you willing to engage in a conversation? But it turned out not to be that bad. Chris Hedges called me up for dinner and we drove to New York the next day and I did an interview on his show. It wasn’t like the time was wasted. They again decided—I’m sure you know there was a tweet I posted which got this thing started.

And what’s funny is that it wasn’t till almost two weeks after the tweet was posted, that the Princeton thing happened, somehow somebody got a hold of it, and decided to make a big deal of it. Calling it, expressions of antisemitism and all that nonsense. So I have had lots of lectures before Princeton and many lectures after Princeton. Princeton was somehow—this was a bridge too far– one expression too anti-semitic. I’m not even sure what that means. And I stand by what I said. So be it, you know.

Tell me about the tweet and what you meant and how it was received. 

By and large, other than the Jewish establishment, whoever it is that wants to label me– people like you and I as antisemitic– most of the questions during the Q and A session after a lecture about it are very good, they enhance the conversation. I’m happy to talk about it. So: the Israeli ambassador had just tweeted the agreement of 38 billion, congratulating it. So I retweeted it and I added, that now they can’t complain, that Jews have a reputation of being sleazy thieves. Israel does not deserve nor need this 38 billion dollars.

The State that tries or pretends to defend Jews from everything from terrorism to anti-semitic blood libel to anti-semitic caricatures and characteristics and so forth is behaving in a way– it’s not just because of money, it’s underhanded dealings, it’s the mafia-like blackmail, it’s the idea that politicians who express anything remotely in opposition to Israel, they will be blackmailed, they will be shunned, lose the next elections, their opponents will be flooded with endless amounts of money. It’s that. That’s sleazy.

If the state that represents the Jews wants to help Jews, then behaving in a sleazy money-grubbing way is not the way to do it. Beside the fact that the money is used to kill Palestinians, to maintain a regime that is racist, that discriminates against Palestinians. That in Gaza a child with cancer will die because Israel will not give the child access to medicine, when a child on the other side of the border will live. So all this money is going to support a horrific regime, and this horrible existence that is imposed on the Palestinians.

I was asked was it a good idea to be so provocative. I responded, Not only is it a good idea, it is imperative. We must be provocative. If I understand where the question came from– Americans are taught that Rosa Parks was a little old lady who got on the bus, and was really tired and sat in the first available seat that just happened to be a white seat. And she just sat down because she was tired. We know that was complete nonsense. She was an activist, and it was done in order to provoke. This assumption that somehow because you believe in peaceful resistance and civil disobedience, it means being nice all the time– it doesn’t. It means provoking, it means raising the issues that are most painful. Who is responsible? Who at the end of the day is responsible? These are Jews. Who is the government? These are Jews. Who are the soldiers? These are Jews. Who voted for all these governments, for Netanyahu? Jews. Who is giving billions of dollars, people like Ron Lauder and Haim Saban and all these other Jewish billionaires. This is a Jewish issue. When you say Don’t talk about Jews when Jews are at the core of the issue, this is hypocrisy. That is my response to the issue. It may hurt some people’s feelings. But if they took time to read the explanations I posted consequentially, they would have understood it.

Recently I posted about Jeffrey Goldberg saying the donor class of the Democratic Party is Jewish. He seems to reflect a new openness about the role of Jewish money, a truth expressed by Walt and Mearsheimer 10 years ago and suppressed, and you say there’s an imperative to talk about it. Are Americans more open to the analysis?

I have to say yes. You know, the repercussion or the consequences of my expression in that tweet and everything else I write and say– the only impact it has is that I am still getting lots of requests for interviews. I think if this was 10 years, or maybe 6 or 7 years ago, it would have been very different. This is what I hear from several other people who speak and write on the issue. The openness and willingness to engage, particularly college campuses and progressive churches, has changed dramatically. I don’t know that 10 years ago anyone could have anticipated that the change would be so quick. So I would have to say there is a growing openness. This tweet created some friction in some areas, but I’ve been getting more emails and messages, from American Jews supporting what I said and supporting what I do. So I would have to say there is an openness and a willingness.

Some times people feel these things, and are afraid to express them. They get sent somewhere, to Mondoweiss, or I say it, somebody says it, and they think, Now we can all say this, more of us can say this. It’s really out there. That’s how we all feel anyway. That’s what I said.

People lay down a red line so no one else will express the idea. They make the ideas verboten. The word goes out it’s career poison to even touch these ideas. You say that has not worked in your case?

Yes. I mean. I think I’m less vulnerable, I don’t belong to anything, I’m independent. So it’s harder. I spoke at Ithaca. And the Ithaca organizers I think it’s called the Greater Ithaca Activities center, GIAC, a great place, they got emails and letters and threats, all kinds of things that they got, to cancel the Israeli hater. They stood their ground, the director stood her ground. A lot of people came there to support me. So yeah there are these attempts, but they’re failing, and at least in my case they’re failing miserably.

But were you saying that Jews do have this reputation, and it’s something we have to reckon with?

Well the stereotype is there, all the way from Shylock to Fagin in Dickens. The stereotype is there. I talk with Jewish friends, who still remember when they were kids, others would make fun of their people, and talk about money. The stereotype is there, of Jews and money; racism is there in America. I think there’s another facet of that. America is deeply racist, and people are afraid to touch it, because it’s so powerful, and the expression is so deep. This exists, these stereotypes exist, especially about blacks and others—Latinos– exist. They’re ugly, they’re wholly unjustified, wholly inexcusable. At the same time they exist.

Now like I said earlier, the State of Israel has declared itself as the protector of Jews. If the state is protecting the Jews, then it’s incumbent on them to do that and not use the despicable sleazy methods that Shylock and Fagin would have been characterized by. I do think that Jews are not out there enough protesting enough, protesting what is supposedly in their name. I think all Americans need to stand up in opposition. Those American tax dollars, it’s not money that comes off the trees. So all Americans should stand up, and Jews in particular. The synagogues with the Support Israel signs, they should take off the signs in the synagogue. They should say, We are ashamed of Israel. Israel is depriving Palestinians of water, depriving Palestinians of freedom. Never mind that Israeli bombed the hell out of Gaza. This is what we should be saying. I don’t think that Jewish people are doing enough.

In Hebron when I first witnessed apartheid in 2006, I asked whether Israelis know about this, and a person on my tour said, Israelis don’t want to know. Aren’t American Jews responsible in the same way? They don’t want to know. The information has been pounded at them, still they support this delusion. Is there something about the Jewish tradition, maybe reflecting the ghetto, that our institutions have been able to maintain the delusion. There are structural reasons we’re not doing enough– particularism, tribalism, ethnocentricity, parochialism, call it what you like, we have to take it on.

I agree with you. I think you’re absolutely right. I’ll just say this. I think there’s more than one Jewish community. I’m talking about the Reform synagogue, which has the whole Zionist agenda. But I think there are other Jews. Of course there’s Neturei Karta who are a community that opposes Israel, and there are others. I agree with you completely, Brant Rosen said Zionism and Israel has become the new secular religion for American Jews. You don’t have to do much, you can rally around Israel and wrap yourself in the flag, and this is what it means to be Jewish for a lot of those people. Conservative synagogues aren’t any better. But none of it is being Jewish. Zionist indoctrination is pretty effective, it is similar to the indoctrination that my parents got from the time they were born in Palestine. They were indoctrinated by these legendary speakers from Eastern Europe, and to this day that goes on in these Zionist camps in America. They indoctrinate in a very very effective way, presenting Israel in a very positive youthful idyllic kind of way. The counselors are Israeli and they’re fun. It’s very effective.

And there’s a catch 22: which comes first, the indoctrination or the willingness to send our kids to this? If you grow up in America– I have three kids, I look at their textbooks, and they’re in American high schools, they learn about the Mideast world, they learn about Mesopotamia and Babylon and Egypt, and the Hebrews as if there’s some kind of equivalency between these major empires and this little tribe. And what they talk about are King David, Moses and Abraham. None of them are historic figures, they’re biblical figures. We know very well that Christian and Jewish Zioinsts have been digging up Palestine for 100 years, for a shred of evidence that there was a King David and a Solomon, and they haven’t found one. So while Americans are arguing about teaching evolution not creationism, they’re teaching biblical stuff in their 8th grades. None of it is historical. It’s an indoctrination that leads to the understanding of the legitimacy of the state of Israel. Which is why it is there. And it goes on and on. And meantime, Arabs are always portrayed as bad and irrational and evil. So it’s a very sophisticated form of indoctrination.

Is antisemitism an issue inside the Palestinian solidarity community? Where is the line?

I don’t know what antisemitism means. I think it’s an antiquated term. I don’t know what it means. The people I know in this community, the people I work with, I’ve never seen any expression of antisemitism. I think there’s a little bit of nitpicking done to people, where they can find– an ideological difference or a phrase that can or can’t be used. There’s that in every group. But I don’t see antisemitism as a problem. Generally speaking, I haven’t encountered it.

I don’t know that it exists. I haven’t seen it. Or it is someone from the other side, coming on Facebook or on social media, pretending to be one of the guys from within, or a Palestinian, and they turn out to be a troll. But I haven’t seen this kind of a problem on the left at all.

Racism is real in America. You mentioned antisemitism in that context. So isn’t this racism, too? You have no question about what racism means.

No not at all. I think people talk about shared values between America and Israel, and of course I say, Ethnic cleansing, racism and that sort of thing. Basically a regime for white colonizers at the expense of others. I don’t think there’s any question what racism means. The fact that Black lives don’t matter is a sign of racism. People do still repeat the negative characterizations of Jews, so that is very deep, as with all minorities. That is always there. Americans don’t deal with it because it’s so deep. That’s why I say something about sleazy Jews, regardless of the context, and boom, something explodes. Oh my god, it’s antisemitism! Let’s shut it down, let’s not talk about it! Americans are afraid to deal with racism. People are so terrified. Which is why people have a problem, when someone wears a Black Lives Matter shirt, they say, Italian lives matter! They are so uncomfortable with it. My response is, in America black lives don’t matter, which is why we wear the shirts. Some lives matter, some lives don’t. People are afraid of expressing the struggle against racism. But it’s there and I think it’s important to deal with.

What about our American Jewish status? I hear young people in IfNotNow describing Jews as oppressed. Certainly we too have been oppressed. What’s your view as an outsider?

Persecuted is the last word I would use. When you look at the involvement of Jews, not necessarily because they are Jews, but because of where they are in politics, in education, in every sphere– the last thing you could say is outsiders or persecuted. I think we’re taught that we are persecuted from a very young age. One of the downfalls of the Jewish community is that they perpetuate this sense. When the truth is Israelis have never been persecuted, and most Israelis have no connection to the Holocaust. But they walk around as if they are Holocaust survivors themselves. The vast number have never been persecuted. Many came from Arab countries where they were treated very well or didn’t want to leave. Since World War 2, everyone carries a sense that we are a persecuted people, that we have suffered here and we have suffered there. I don’t see that. I don’t accept it.

Is there a recognition of Jewish empowerment in the U.S. that makes this an uncomfortable conversation? You hear it but you can’t say it? It’s verboten.

Well Jews are empowered and Jews are privileged whites, like a lot of other whites. They have been accepted into the fold of privileged white because that’s the reality. But they have to keep carrying that baggage of we are a persecuted people. At Passover, we must always tell our children and our grandchildren, we were slaves in Egypt. They take it quite literally and they carry it over into today. We have a right to remember Egypt, how many thousands of years ago–if it happened at all. But Palestinians have no right to return to their land they were forced from 70 years ago. 70 years is a long time, and they have to forget. That kind of mentality, that is silly.

Also, there’s the argument, that well we have to have an Israel to go to if there’s another Hitler. It’s absurd.

Why? Isn’t Israel a haven for Jews?

Jews live in havens everywhere. Where do Jews not have a haven? Jews live in America and Europe, god knows every other place, and in Palestine they stole someone else’s land and have no right to be here, so of course they live in fear. Jews here feel entitled to live in Palestine even though they are living on someone else’s land and committing genocide.

JVP came out against your tweet, then it walked its criticism back. What do you have to say?

I’m not sure that there’s anything to say beyond what I’ve already said. I don’t want to make it a big thing. The other side is waiting for this kind of stuff, it’s a distraction.

Some have pushed for an apology to you. 

I need to give you some perspective. I just spent two weeks in Palestine, and people asked me about my trial. Would I write something or would I say something? The thing is, it is so absolutely trivial compared to the magnitude of the horrors of what happens in Palestine every day that I’m embarrassed to talk about it. There are so many things we should be talking about and to spend time on this is an embarrassment.

I don’t know if you’ve heard the story about Salah al-Khawaja, he’s one of the pillars of the BDS movement, he’s been detained for 30 days without charge, and it was extended twice. The beating, the torture, the sleepless nights– in the first 22 days he was interrogated 40 times. Interrogation doesn’t mean, we sit there with coffee and chat. He’s probably sitting on a very small chair, cutting into his back. And his hands are chained to the concrete floor, and he’s got at least two people screaming in his ears. And he’s got someone 24 hours a day making sure he can’t sleep.

How do you know all this?

I know all this because I spoke to a friend who spoke to his attorney after. [Jamal Jum’a, who is a close friend and works with Salah: Jamal is the coordinator for Stop the Wall campaign and member of the BNC, the BDS coordinating committee.] He sat with Salah’s attorney. And really he wasn’t allowed to see his attorney for the first 20 days. They had a hearing a few days ago. That was a hearing for extending his detention a second time and that was the first time he sat with his attorney. You couldn’t go in the courthouse, which is adjacent to the Israeli secret police where they interrogate people in Peta Tikvah—it’s a courtroom that’s adjacent to the Shabak detention center. Which is where people are tortured and interrogated. And nobody knows why he’s been detained. They’re saying he had some connection to Iran. You can only guess. My guess is that it’s because he’s involved with BDS, and is one of the few people who knows every single detail about the BDS movement, about the different campaigns against the weapons industry and arms manufacturing and all of that. Then the other night, on Tuesday night I think it was, his office in Ramallah was raided by Israeli forces, in the center of Ramallah, where supposedly Israeli forces are not allowed to go, and everything was broken, the walls were smashed, everything was taken away.

So how can you talk about my little thing compared to this. This guy is consequential. This guy has been a pillar of the BDS movement, and this has been going on a long time.

I want to give you another example. His name is Nasser Abu Srur. He should have been released from prison 20 years ago, just after Oslo. He’s from Aida camp. The whole camp was ready for him to come home. His family was ready, Then moments before he was released he was asked by an Israeli reporter, would he do it again? He had killed a Shabak officer. He reiterated, he’s a soldier of the resistance movement. He’s in prison 20 years later.

Why did you think of his case?

It came to mind because I spent a day in Aida refugee camp, near Bethlehem, and they have portraits of prisoners on the wall right next to the camp, and his picture was there. We were talking about him, and his name came up, and his house was right there.

Right across from there was another spot where a 13 year old kid was shot in the heart by a sniper, just standing around and playing with friends, standing around 2013. [Abed Al-Rahman Obeidallah, 13 yrs old, was killed October 5, 2015 by a sniper, while wearing his school uniform]

It’s interesting, because there’s a picture of him right where he was standing, on a post, and there are bullet holes in the post as well. And you see the wall at the top of the hill; the soldiers came down from there, walking downhill. And you see his family; we were standing by the house, and the father walked by.

What’s the effect, how did that make you feel?

You know, I don’t know that I can put it in words. I really don’t know that I can put it in words– the horrifying reality, and if anything else, the sense of embarrassment that we’re dealing with such nonsense here in this country. Whether I said something anti-Semitic or not, whether I was arrested or not at a protest. There’s really a genocide in place and it’s happening right before our eyes, and kids are targeted. I was sitting in Bethlehem having lunch with a friend, and soldiers just came and started shooting teargas at the kids on the street. We knew because it came into the house. It’s not like there was a protest or anything organized. I’m talking about 8, 9, 10-year-old kids in the streets playing and the gas was coming in. We started smelling the tear gas, and we went outside and we see this sort of stuff.

We could go on and on and on, from horror to horror to horror. I will tell you one other thing, I was part of a conference in Nabi Saleh last weekend, it was the main reason for my trip, and the second day, there’s a small organization called Face to Face, and they provide portraits of loved ones to people who lost loved ones. And they came and gave portraits to some of the families. We’re talking about the Dawabshe family, burned by settlers, we’re talking about the Abu Khdeir family, where in 2014, settlers killed their son. We’re talking about the Nuwara family, the boy was killed by a sniper outside Ofer prison. [17-year-old Nadim]. These are all kids, and families!

There were quite a few speakers. But one guy was a water guy, an expert on water issues. When you hear about Palestinians denied water, there is no surer way to kill people than to deny them water. Other than shooting them. Palestinian are allocated 3 percent of the water in the entire country, Palestinians overall. And Mekorot the water corporation of Israel is going around the world making billions of dollars selling their product, and know-how about water. And again that’s another BDS campaign that people don’t know much about.

This is daily stuff. There is nothing unusual about anything that I am relating to you.

A Jewish friend said to me, I hold it against my family members who voted for Trump, if they did, more than the ones who support Israel. Because they don’t know anything about Israel, it’s a dream. What do you say?

I would say it’s exactly the other way around. I think the difference between Trump and Hillary is cosmetic. Whereas supporting Israel is supporting genocide, it’s supporting one of the worst crimes that’s taking place in our lifetime. And I think it’s unforgivable.

What about the excuse, They don’t know in the Jewish community?

That’s no excuse, that’s Inexcusable. They should know. Especially if they support Israel, they should know.

Thanks Miko. That’s a good place to end it. Oh wait, tell me about your next book.

I’m about to finish it. It’s for Just World Books. I’m writing about the case of the Holy Land Foundation, the Muslim charity that was closed after 9/11. There are five guys in jail, I’ve been writing about them for 4 years. I visited them in prison– the ones I was permitted to visit, which was four out of five. I met their families, visited their towns in Palestinians. It’s been quite a journey.

Miko Peled visiting Mufid Abdulqader in federal prison

Miko Peled visiting Mufid Abdulqader in federal prison

I think there’s been a kind of criminalization of charities for Palestinians. It started a little while before them. But they are the main target. There’s World Vision out of Gaza, that had some trouble, too. What’s interesting is two things. How do you criminalize charity? I mean how do you even come up with a way? And typically a charity supports poor people, and in Palestine they’re focused on orphans and families of prisoners, and the demonic ingenuity of groups like the ADL [Anti Defamation League] and others that are behind the dehumanizing, they came up with this explanation, that by supporting the orphans it’s supporting terrorism, it encourages people to engage in terrorism.

One of the explanations is that these orphans are the children of martyrs. Well, I read thousands of pages of court documents and testimony. I’m still reading. And none of the suicide bombers have children. So none of these orphans are the children.

As for the word martyr: In the context of Palestine, when someone dies, you call them martyr out of respect. Many of the parents of these children were killed by Israel. They were collateral damage. They were maybe engaged in resistance activity, but Israel has killed Palestinians left right and center. Some of them were bread winners. The idea that giving to the orphans is encouraging suicide bombers! The expert testimony under oath — no one brought up the fact of the suicide bombers. The names are well known, there have been 194 or 195 of them.

And the prisoner issue is another issue. If the parents of the children are prisoners– they’re terrorists, end of story. Never mind the fact that according to Israeli sources the vast majority of Palestinian prisoners have never been engaged in violence.

How do you take this persecution of a people in Palestine and continue the persecution in America by bringing down a charity, criminalizing a charity and putting five innocent men in prison for sentences ranging between 15 and 65 years?

When’s it come out?

Inshallah next year 2017.

Title?

Injustice: the Prosecution of the Holy Land Foundation Five.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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127 Responses

  1. yonah fredman
    November 25, 2016, 2:26 pm

    If passion alone will free the Palestinians, then who can say that miko peled is on the wrong path. But if dialogue with jews who disagree will someday be part of the path to that freedom, peled leads not in that direction.
    The noise of a barking dog is how peled sounds to me. He has heard the siren song of Palestinian suffering and can hear nothing else.

    • Mooser
      November 25, 2016, 5:27 pm

      “But if dialogue with jews who disagree will someday be part of the path to that freedom, peled leads not in that direction”

      Sure, “Yonah” that makes sense.

      “The noise of a barking dog is how peled sounds to me. He has heard the siren song of Palestinian suffering and can hear nothing else.”

      Well, so much for that “dialogue”. Hey “Yonah”, if Peled is listening to “the siren song of Palestinian suffering, and can hear nothing else”, who is doing all the barking? So go lie down, Fido.

      • Yakov Hirsch
        November 25, 2016, 7:18 pm

        Did i hear barking dogs? It’s my speciality i silence them in no time.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 25, 2016, 7:48 pm

        i hear yonah’s yapping

      • captADKer
        November 29, 2016, 2:42 pm

        what say you about this from their minarets?

      • Mooser
        November 29, 2016, 2:50 pm

        “What about this…”

        It is apparent that “CaptADKer” (WTF?) has never heard the story of “The Upstairs Donkey”

    • W.Jones
      November 25, 2016, 5:38 pm

      Why do you say “Jews who disagree” and not just “people who disagree?”

      Do you see the Israeli system and its policies as representative of the world’s Jews?

    • talknic
      November 25, 2016, 6:23 pm

      Let’s all thank yonah fredman for proving Miko is on the correct path to rightfully scaring the F*&^ out of people like yonah fredman

    • RoHa
      November 25, 2016, 9:41 pm

      “He has heard the siren song of Palestinian suffering and can hear nothing else. ”

      What else should he be listening to, then? People who think that Jewishness is more important than morality, than human happiness, than human life? I’m not sure dialogue with such people is possible.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2016, 12:56 pm

        “People who think that Jewishness is more important than morality, than human happiness, than human life?”

        “RoHa” I don’t think you grasp the implications of the words: “Without Torah, there is no life”. “Yonah” does it for us, lest Torah disappear, and life on earth end.

    • eljay
      November 25, 2016, 9:43 pm

      || yonah fredman: If passion alone will free the Palestinians, then who can say that miko peled is on the wrong path. But if dialogue with jews who disagree will someday be part of the path to that freedom, peled leads not in that direction. … ||

      Zio-supremacists have made it extremely clear that they don’t give a flying f*ck about “the path to freedom”. All they want is:
      – Jewish supremacism in/and a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine; and
      – absolution of their past and on-going (war) crimes and obligations under international law.

      No justice, no accountability and no equality.

      || … The noise of a barking dog is how peled sounds to me. … ||

      Says the braying ass.

      || … He has heard the siren song of Palestinian suffering and can hear nothing else. ||

      The “siren song of Palestinian suffering”. Wow. That is definitely one of your sicker and more twisted comments.

    • yonah fredman
      November 25, 2016, 10:37 pm

      If you think miko peled brought Palestinian freedom forward with his jew hating tweet, then say so. My estimation: he did not speed it nor delay it even five seconds. So then he added hate to the conversation that was not there before. So are you pro hate or anti hate. Don’t answer too quick.

      • echinococcus
        November 25, 2016, 11:17 pm

        Reb Fredman,

        “Jew-hating tweet”?

        What the f*&% do you mean, you *&$&^ so-and-so? Is that guy not “Jewish” enough by your definition? Sorry if I’m upset, but you earned it, and more, so be patient with my upset.

        In fact, he is waaay more “Jewish” than your good self by any of the definitions used by you bunch. He is born in occupied Palestine, i.e. an Israeli citizen by birth, i.e. a prickly pear as you guys call them. He is the son of an illustrious Jewish family that counts one many-starred genocidal general.

        Who you calling “Jew-hating”, *^&%$?
        What are you calling “hate” anyway, and who gives a rodent’s bottom what word you use for rightful opposition to your genocidal invasion?

      • Annie Robbins
        November 26, 2016, 12:16 am

        jew hating tweet… he added hate to the conversation .. are you pro hate or anti hate.

        What are you calling “hate” anyway

        i can’t think of a word (other than perhaps “israel”) zionists advocates (more accurately hasbrats) use more routinely, publicly. it defines them and has gone mainstream. how’s that working for them? with their victimhood identity? like guilt, is it the gift that just keeps on giving, or can they wear it out? ascribing hatred to all ones ideological opponents seems like a losing strategy. sad twisted desperate logic.

        even i do not hate them, for they are not worth surrendering my soul.

      • echinococcus
        November 26, 2016, 12:46 am

        Sorry Annie, I insist on my right to hate any *&^%%$ racist invaders and genocidaires, and their propaganda helpers, too. What right have they to dictate other people’s emotions? Hate is one. If they want a difference response, let them change their spots and pay reparation.

        Besides, without hate it’s hard to do war. Which is what we officially have since 1947.

        This Fredman is talking about not racist hate (based on a group’s accident of birth), which very explicitly can’t be the case with Peled –but just “hate” in the abstract. Just pure objectless hate. Some deep philosopher, ain’t he?

      • Annie Robbins
        November 26, 2016, 12:51 pm

        echinococcus, i have no issue with you expressing your own hatred. i’ve said this about a thousand times here but it’s apparently falling on def ears. yonah doesn’t talk of his own hatred, he ascribed it to his adversaries. that’s the hasbara i am discussing. this is routine zionist discourse, but rarely ever discussing their own. again:

        ascribing hatred to all ones ideological opponents seems like a losing strategy. sad twisted desperate logic.

        you: What right have they to dictate other people’s emotions?

        no right. no right whatsoever. but who is it claiming peled’s tweet was “jew-hating”? is he not dictating peled’s state of mind or emotion? hate, being by far (one would imagine) the worst emotion available to humankind, is something unfamiliar to me so i can’t expand upon it.

        i don’t critique you for expressing yours. i just have a problem with people ascribing it to others for rhetorical one-upmanship point scoring. search yonah or hops archives for hate or hating, note in the hundreds of times it’s employed as a weapon ascribing it to others vs the silence of ever referencing their own hatred.

        it contrast, outside of this current conversation you’ve used the word less than ten times. and when you use it you either speak of your own (‘i hate dems, i hate shavits’) or use it rhetorically ‘i hate to tell you’. that is a far cry from ascribing it others — ad hominem in nature.

      • yonah fredman
        November 26, 2016, 12:54 am

        Dudes- seriously you’re all so full of it. A little comment in the mw comments section and I use the word bark and you foam at the mouth.
        I will quote you the great lover of mankind miko peled the spoiled child the anointed one: “then theyr surprised Jews have reputation 4 being sleazy thieves. ” These are the words you are defending, these are the words that entice Phil Weiss’s empathy. You are a choir that agrees with itself. Congratulations. Bannon’s trump commercial, no hate there. Peled’s “sleazy thieves”, no problem there. I used the word bark. Unfair. To the dogs.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 26, 2016, 1:01 pm

        you foam at the mouth

        oh please. yonah, mr cool calm and collected “hate” accuser vs the hoards of dogs either barking or foaming at the mouth.

        we hear you loud and clear and you can’t hear over the barking. ‘lalala i can’t hear you’

      • yonah fredman
        November 26, 2016, 1:13 am

        Miko peled has made the conversation about him and his rhetoric. He has hijacked the thread. But go ahead and defend him.

      • echinococcus
        November 26, 2016, 10:24 am

        Miko peled… has hijacked the thread.

        …the thread titled
        “A conversation with Miko Peled”
        no less.

        A real Perfessor of logic you are, Reb Fredman. This must be one of your towering summits!

      • talknic
        November 26, 2016, 11:08 am

        @ yonah fredman “I will quote you the great lover of mankind miko peled the spoiled child the anointed one: “then theyr surprised Jews have reputation 4 being sleazy thieves. ””

        What went BEFORE “then theyr surprised …”?

        ” These are the words you are defending, “

        Your quote isn’t in context with what went BEFORE “then theyr surprised …”?

      • Annie Robbins
        November 26, 2016, 1:42 pm

        What went BEFORE “then theyr surprised …”?

        yonah probably doesn’t want to talk about israel screwing american taxpayers out of 38 billion dollars. whatever it is we get in return is hushed up. 99.9% of americans probably have no idea what we are supposed to get in return for that money. how is that not sleazy? that’s the part he skipped.

      • yonah fredman
        November 26, 2016, 12:45 pm

        It was an analogy. Assuming that the topic is israel and its evil, peled has hijacked the thread and made the conversation about himself.
        Phil Weiss’s namby pamby questions to peled as peled attempts to win the gilad atzmon award of the year is another shining example of the tone deafness of mondoweiss, backed up to the hilt by the choir.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2016, 1:01 pm

        “So are you pro hate or anti hate. Don’t answer too quick.”

        And “Yonah” paints himself into a corner by dipping his brush in the Porta-Potti again!

        You bet, “Yonah”: “Zionism is love!”.
        You felt that Zionist love and it scared you right back to Brooklyn.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2016, 1:43 pm

        “Miko peled has made the conversation about him and his rhetoric.”

        Damn it. And I was so looking forward to reading “A Conversation With “Yonah Fredman”.

      • echinococcus
        November 26, 2016, 1:44 pm

        But Annie, your posting was crystal clear and was not misunderstood.
        I just went on to the next chapter: even though there can be no “hate”, as the good Reb Feldman says, I still want to claim and establish my right to hate his political ilk as much as I want. Considering the peculiar American institution of obligatory hatelessness and smiles.

        Sorry for not having made that clear. Peace.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 26, 2016, 1:53 pm

        sure, i don’t think there are rights to hatred tho. emotions being somewhat incontrollable. the heart has it’s own clock, something i learned when mine was broken, and again when my sister died. you can try willing it away but ultimately it does its own thing. one can control how one channels ones emotions but erasing them at will takes it to another level that most (many) people find inaccessible.

        peace to you too.

      • yonah fredman
        November 26, 2016, 2:23 pm

        Zionism, particularly as expressed today in the occupied west bank, but in fact on a deeper level, is an ideology which defies modern values. The value of each human irrespective of their tribe or gene or sociological grouping is the value. In fact zionism is similar to other nationalisms in this regard. The displacement of the Palestinians in the nakba and the recent arrival of the yehudim as a result of a globe in convulsions, of course, makes this particular us vs. them dissimilar to most other nationalisms.
        Miko peled’s ire at the US military aid bill is commendable. Expressing himself as if his rhetorical mentors were Shakespeare and dickens, also not bad. But shylock and fagin, you son of a general, this is what you have learned, you turkey, you son of a general. Go, get lost, you turkey. The choir here loves you. Bravo, they say. Turkeys.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 26, 2016, 4:17 pm

        ok, you went psych-off there at the end yonah.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2016, 5:58 pm

        Wow, so that’s what somebody’s head exploding looks like! I mean, I’ve heard about it, but there it is, right in front of me, a noble mind o’erturned. A Napoleon blownapart.

        “Yonah” be back after he cleans the cerebellum off his screen.

      • eljay
        November 26, 2016, 6:01 pm

        || yonah fredman: Zionism … is an ideology which defies modern values. … ||

        Zionism values Jewish supremacism in/and a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine. Zionism values the “right” of Jews to do unto others acts of injustice and immorality they would not have others do unto them. Zionism – like Islamism – is hatefulness and immorality. Together, they defy modern values.

        || … Go, get lost, you turkey. The choir here loves you. Bravo, they say. Turkeys. ||

        …brays the ass.

      • Mooser
        November 26, 2016, 6:05 pm

        “you son of a general.”

        “Yonah”, really! You can’t blame Peled for his father.

      • talknic
        November 26, 2016, 8:14 pm

        @ yonah fredman November 26, 2016, 2:23 pm

        “Zionism, particularly as expressed today in the occupied west bank, but in fact on a deeper level, is an ideology which defies modern values”

        Yes. Colonizing pyramid schemes carry a vile stench

        “In fact zionism is similar to other nationalisms in this regard”

        Many start a Colonial Trust and offer loans so settlers could go to the dirty work while the organizers wined and dined in safety in influential financial circles?

        “The displacement of the Palestinians in the nakba and the recent arrival of the yehudim as a result of a globe in convulsions…”

        1897 the Zionist Federation decided to colonize Palestine and charge Jewish settlers interest on the loans that put them on the front line

        “Miko peled’s ire at the US military aid bill is commendable”

        It justifies his assertion

      • W.Jones
        November 27, 2016, 12:11 am

        “Miko peled’s ire at the US military aid bill is commendable.But…

      • Marnie
        November 28, 2016, 9:24 am

        You come across very strongly as a person terrified of the possibility that he/she is a bore, an inconsequential nobody.

        James Brown – Talking Loud and Saying Nothing – YouTube

      • Mooser
        November 28, 2016, 3:12 pm

        Then it’s time for….”The big Payback”

        ‘I don’t know kaballah, but I know c-razy!’

    • oldgeezer
      November 25, 2016, 10:45 pm

      @yonah

      Roughly 70 years of talking to a bunch of racial supremacists has only led to further crimes against humanity and an emboldened rogue state with no respect for humanity.

      Woof.

      Zionism and Israel are a disgrace to decent humanity.

    • Maghlawatan
      November 26, 2016, 12:51 am

      I have heard that tent argument before.

      https://hartman.org.il/Blogs_View.asp?Article_Id=657&Cat_Id=273&Cat_Type=
      “When one calls, however, for the boycotting or international sanctioning of Israel or the forcing of its government to adopt policies which are counter to the expressed will of its democratically elected government, even if one believes that one is doing so for the good of Israel, one is locating oneself on the side of our foes, a side that friends need to be wary of.
      If our community will be wise enough to expand the inner tent to make room for a wide spectrum of opinions, debate, criticism, and acts of protest and condemnation, there will be no need for members of our community to find their allies elsewhere, and ones who do so, will be therefore declaring where their allegiance truly lies.
      We are a people who believe that criticism is an act of love and loyalty. We are also a people who believe that there is a criticism out of love, and a criticism which is not.”

      It’s a real diaspora minority thing. Don’t frighten the horses. And there is zero accountability.
      When Jews have power it is a blank check for sadists and sociopaths and wild motherfuckers.

      Over Goldstone the Zionists got the judge to retract his odious blood libel, that Israeli kills children deliberately.
      Hartman pleaded for the issue to be dealt with within the community. Fine. But the community did nothing.

      Israel was back slaughtering kids in 2014 . Sabra Jews paraded around singing “schools out cos there are no kids in Gaza”

      At some point Yonah there is no point in defending it any longer.

      Because it is off the scale compared to whatever the Cossacks were doing back in old Poland .

      And shooting and crying doesn’t fix anything. Israel is out of control.

    • Maghlawatan
      November 26, 2016, 12:55 am
    • Raphael
      November 26, 2016, 7:48 am

      It is difficult to judge a person based upon a article in a Arab media activists environment. But, I would guess pro-hate. Why? I don’t see any love between the Arabs and the Jews; in Israel or anywhere in the world. The media activists for the Arabs are like Main stream media reporters, the more violence, and hate in the story… the more they like it.

      It is a unfortunate consequence of the corruption of the main stream media machine. Most reporters both mainstream and alternative are trained in the pro hate schools of creating infomercial news to brainwash the masses.

      The only way to see through it it as hate, is to do like I did and become a citizen of Israel, and become a duel citizen of the US and Israel. There are some genuine alternative reporters; but my guess is they would not want to touch the Arab Israeli conflict with a 10 foot pole.

      Especially, with a Trump presidency where every nutcase in the world will come out of the woodwork. A former Israeli wrote a article here about the brainwashing pervasive in Israeli culture. I seen that brainwashing too, in the brief time I lived there. I think it is just the self hating Jew syndrome, though I’m no therapist.

      I wonder if he has ever went into therapy to deal with the transition of moving to a different culture in the US, like she had? It is quite easy to be brainwashed, much easier then even movies like Telefon and The Parallax View seem to imply.

    • Misterioso
      November 26, 2016, 11:24 am

      Yonah

      “The noise of a barking dog is how peled sounds to me. He has heard the siren song of Palestinian suffering and can hear nothing else.”

      Gee, I wonder why.

      Australian film ‘Stone Cold Justice’ on Israel’s torture of Palestinian children

      A film produced by a group of Australian journalists has sparked an international outcry against Israel after it explicitly detailed Tel Aviv’s use of torture against Palestinian children.
      The film, titled ‘Stone Cold Justice’ documents how Palestinian children, who have been arrested and detained by Israeli forces, are subjected to physical abuse, torture and forced into false confessions and pushed into gathering intelligence on Palestinian activists.

      Australia’s foreign minister Julie Bishop has spoken out against Israeli’s use of torture stating that “I am deeply concerned by allegations of the mistreatment of Palestinian children,” Israel’s Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor has described the human rights abuses documented in the film as “intolerable”. But rights groups have slammed this statement, saying that the Israelis are doing nothing to change Tel Aviv’s policy to torture Palestinian children.

      Last year, a report by the United Nations International Emergency Children’s Fund or UNICEF concluded that Palestinian children are often targeted in night arrests and raids of their homes, threatened with death and subjected to physical violence, solitary confinement and sexual assault.

      The film has sparked an international outcry about Israel’s treatment of children in Israeli jails. However, rights groups have criticized Tel Aviv for not doing anything to create a policy that protects Palestinian children against arbitrary arrest and torture.

      Your comment reminds me of an article in Haaretz, April 3/16:

      “Inside the Mind of the Budding Fascist” By B. Michael

      Excerpt:
      “Along the way to full, official fascism — especially fascism based on religious, ethnic or racial identity — a society must experience two critical stages.

      “The first is the complete dehumanization of ‘the Other’ — that is, members of a different religion, nation or race. In the mind of the budding fascist, they must cease to be human beings. They must instead be turned into animals without rights, dangerous objects, natural threats. Or, in contemporary language, they must be turned into ‘two-legged animals’ and ‘wild beasts’ from the jungle beyond the fence. This makes it easier for the nascent fascist to subjugate and abuse them, to deprive them of their rights and property and ultimately to kill them like pests.

      “Last week Israeli society proved it passed this stage with flying colors. The dehumanization of the Palestinian ‘other’ is complete. In the neo-fascist Israeli consciousness, the Palestinians are like cockroaches. Even when they lie on the ground, helpless, their heads must be crushed with a slipper, or punctured by a bullet. Such is the fate of the cockroach.

      “But the act of the soldier-murderer in Hebron was not the proof of the completion of the first stage. It was only the last in a long, bloody series of similar acts…”

      “It is fitting that Naftali Bennett and Avigdor Lieberman should lead this riff raff. From their perspective, so it would seem, the Palestinians have long become vogelfrei.”

      • RoHa
        November 26, 2016, 10:07 pm

        ‘Australia’s foreign minister Julie Bishop has spoken out against Israeli’s use of torture stating that “I am deeply concerned by allegations of the mistreatment of Palestinian children,”’

        And since Julie Bishop is a traitor who puts Israel first, I suspect she means “I am worried about these stories getting out and giving Israel a bad name.”

      • MRW
        November 27, 2016, 5:01 am

        This video shows Israeli barbarism. Anyone in the US doing what Israelis do to Palestinians would be charged and jailed for criminal behavior and shunned for their lack of humanity. But we permit this, because why?

        Israelis fearful of delegitimization?

        They should be, because the day is coming soon when the entire US will react with revulsion. Give it two years.

      • Kay24
        November 27, 2016, 8:37 am

        The US media are enablers to these crimes. No one has the spine to show such videos, or speak about what really is happening to the Palestinians. This is about children too.

        How much longer will the media continue to portray a brutal nation as the “victim”?

      • Mooser
        November 27, 2016, 1:31 pm

        “They should be, because the day is coming soon when the entire US will react with revulsion. Give it two years.”

        Yup “two years” sounds about right. The US should be done building the walls (north and south) by then, have all the Muslims registered, and all the bad people deported. Then, after deleting Medicare and Social Security, we will turn our attention to the injustices in Israel, having dealt with our own…

      • Maghlawatan
        November 27, 2016, 1:32 pm

        Kay,

        Israel is an abuse play.

        The abuser gets away with it for so long because he is respectable, because he has power, because he intimidates his victims, because nobody believes them

        And abusers can go to their grave without being detected,.
        But many don’t and are unmasked

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t89u_3vDtwM

        And Israel can’t die because states are forever

        So the collapse will be massive

      • Kay24
        November 27, 2016, 7:48 pm

        Maghlawatan, I don’t know about that respect you mention. Israel lost respect years ago because of it’s arrogance and violence. Apparently there is new list of most disliked nations 2016, and what do you know, the US is no. 1, followed by it’s “only” ally in the ME, Israel.

        It is strange that the zio media never mentioned this. No surprise however.

        http://www.abcnewspoint.com/top-10-list-of-most-hated-countries-in-the-world-2015/

    • rosross
      November 26, 2016, 11:44 am

      He hears nothing else because a civilized society in the modern age defends human rights, rule of law, democratic principles and justice, all of which the Palestinians are denied by their Jewish/Zionist/Israeli colonisers.

      The Palestinians have right on their side, they are the victims, that is the only suffering. If Israelis suffer it is self-inflicted because they have come to someone else’s country to colonise it and abuse the indigenous people. Israel is the aggressor.

      Any Jew of conscience, intelligence and reason will condemn what Israel is and what Israel does. Israel does not represent Jews or Judaism.

    • DaBakr
      November 26, 2016, 10:53 pm

      @y

      barking dog? don’t insult dogs.

      • Mooser
        November 27, 2016, 1:01 pm

        “barking dog? don’t insult dogs.”

        “Yonah” has never had a dog, or probably, any kind of a pet.
        We really should chip in and get “Yonah” a small dog or a cat. Even a fish-tank.
        Caring for something, having a being dependent on him, and meeting the responsibility may do a lot for “Yonah”. It’ll help him grow up.

        Or he might kill it. Hard to say. I don’t know where he stands on blood sacrifices.

    • Maghlawatan
      December 5, 2016, 11:47 am

      Yonah the Peled family know how the Zionist sausage is made cos Nurit wrote a book about education in Israel. And Yossi is stupid for a reason.

  2. Mooser
    November 25, 2016, 3:15 pm

    Wonderful job, Phil! Great and timely interview. Thanks!

    • MRW
      November 27, 2016, 5:02 am

      Agree. Great job. Peled is a principled man. You brought that out, Phil.

  3. Maghlawatan
    November 25, 2016, 4:00 pm

    Very interesting. Israelis are taught that the land is exclusively Jewish. Palestinians are kept well away from where most Israelis live. Out of sight, out of mind. Most non Haredi Jews do military service and are locked into the system of human rights abuses. The Israeli standard of living is higher because of the abuses. The mess was forseeable in 1967 but the fools won the argument . Israelis do not want to change. It’s obvious that they don’t. But diplomacy is not about what people want. The collapse will be epic.

  4. W.Jones
    November 25, 2016, 4:08 pm

    Phil,

    This was a good interview reminding me why I like Mondoweiss. Miko is a heartfelt speaker who goes to places like visits to the Holy Land Five that others are afraid to.

    Do you realize the similarity between this and Rev Bruce Shipman’s case that you wrote about? He and Miko had the same kind of thesis.

    It’s very unpleasant to me how when the US and EU/NATO commit atrocities like in Serbia, Iraq, and now Libya, people who I meet in other parts of the world will get negative ideas about Americans.

    Another example is when people like Marc Ellis make generalizations about Christians, saying that they are oriented toward conquest of others. Unfortunately, while there have been Christians like Quakers who have even been semi- pacifist, and most Christians dont make conquest some kind of Christian teaching, Marc could give examples of Christian nations’ focus on conquest, like the Spanish Catholics’ conquest of the Americas. That is, unfortunately, nation states’ actions like those of the US or Catholic Spain can create mistaken impressions about their peoples.

    So the reasoning behind what Rev Shipman and Miko have been saying is sound, and they didn’t say they agreed with the stereotypes.

    • MHughes976
      November 26, 2016, 6:01 am

      I agree with the Shipman comparison – does anyone know what became of him after his moment under the spotlight? Miko speaks rhetorically but it’s unfair to say he’s yapping or spitting hate. He’s drawing attention to some awful things, about water for instance. And who could doubt what RoHa says about the need for the voice of suffering and injustice to be heard? There are moments of exasperation, as in the famous tweet, but exasperation is not the same as hatred. However, I accept from Yonah that it’s important for us who are trying to argue for the Palestinian cause in the misinformed and prejudiced West to be very careful about Shipman-style argument that Israeli crimes cause anti-Semitism, which sounds close to accepting that objection to those crimes is often indeed anti-S, which in itself it absolutely never is.

      • W.Jones
        November 26, 2016, 12:49 pm

        I didn’t understand this:

        ” Shipman-style argument that Israeli crimes cause anti-Semitism sounds close to accepting that objection to those crimes is often indeed anti-S, “.

      • Rashers2
        November 26, 2016, 3:51 pm

        “it’s important for us…..to be very careful about Shipman-style argument that Israeli crimes cause anti-Semitism, which sounds close to accepting that objection to those crimes is often indeed anti-S[emitic], which in itself it absolutely never is.” Forgive me; but arguing that Israeli crimes cause anti-Semitism is light-years away from accepting that objection to those crimes is anti-Semitic. Whilst I freely confess never to having studied logic in the academic sense, the statement doesn’t make sense. Shipman and others, I included, subscribe to the thesis that Israel’s crimes may, indeed, contribute to feelings of anti-Semitism among those – often young Muslims, some of whom may be susceptible to radicalisation – who identify with the victims of those crimes. Why? Because Israel, its public relations and media apparatus, and Zionism’s apologists around the planet RELENTLESSLY and successfully seek to conflate Judaism with Zionism, identify all Jews with Zionism and claim that Israel and Israel’s policies represent and reflect the views and beliefs of all Jews, everywhere.
        I fail to see that the “Shipman thesis” has any proximity to accepting that objection to Israel’s crimes is anti-Semitic; because it hasn’t.

      • W.Jones
        November 26, 2016, 6:19 pm

        Claim #1: An officially Jewish state’s crimes can cause some people to be anti-Jewish

        Claim #2: Objecting to the state’s crimes is anti-Jewish

        =========================================

        I have trouble seeing the relationship between these two claims.

      • echinococcus
        November 26, 2016, 10:45 pm

        Jones,

        Possibly the best characterization of this thinking is by Rashers:

        Whilst I freely confess never to having studied logic in the academic sense, the statement doesn’t make sense.

        in other words , it is not based directly on linear logic and an element is missing.

        The only way I could imagine it being interpreted so is the following sequence:

        Action A (atrocities) by subject Z causes reaction B (antisemitism) against Z.
        Subject Y shows reaction C to Z.
        Ergo subject Y showed reaction B.

        Which supposes that all action C is ipso facto reaction B because they are directed at the same object.
        Too ludicrous to even discuss, at least in this world, not in a parallel-logic one.

        But still, Hughes has a point. Not in logic, but in logically foreseeing the next line of illogical Zionist attack.

        The fact is that anything you do or don’t do will attract a Zionist attack anyway, so what the hell?

      • MHughes976
        November 28, 2016, 11:45 am

        Thanks for reasoned comments, esteemed colleagues. I do think we have to understand why Shipman’s dignified, perhaps a bit too brief, attempt to remonstrate with Lipstadt turned out so badly. I wish he had contested more strongly L’s dumping of everything relevant into the bag marked ‘a-S’, with all the connotations of prejudice and falsehood that that term carries.
        His not doing so meant he could be sent into exile, accused of blaming Jews for a-S. It’s true – and this is what his enemies were exploiting – that there’s no such thing as a good reason for prejudice. Rational reaction to atrocity can cause prejudice – mind you, a reaction which is very angry and marked by intense sympathy with the victims need not be prejudiced – only if mixed with some irrational or demonic force.
        When we defend or echo actions or words we can be asked whether we are actually influenced by the things we defend – do we in fact share the ideology behind them? A fair question, I think. Miko P enrages Yonah because he echoes talk of sleazy Jews. He means that N should be ashamed of behaving as predicted in talk of this kind. Can he avoid saying that a-S was quite right in its predictions, i.e. sympathising with a-S to some degree? I think he can – but these brief and angry words leave much unsaid.

    • Citizen
      November 29, 2016, 6:53 am

      Farrakhan preaches whites the world over are oriented toward conquest of others.

  5. Maghlawatan
    November 25, 2016, 5:31 pm

    Groupthink is a particular problem with Zionism . The longer one spends observing the world from a particular frame of reference in Hebrew the more difficult it can be to accept an alternative point of view. Furthermore, in the case of Israel this situation is compounded by two powerful reinforcing agents. The first is that the more of their career and reputation someone has invested in a particular frame of reference, the harder it is for them to accept evidence that undermines it. The second relates to the power of incentive – when people are paid large amounts of money to pursue a particular set of objectives, then of course they are going to defend the integrity of those objectives, and of course they are going to question the validity of any frame of reference that challenges that view.

    The Torah warns against golden calf worship but try talking to Yossi Israeli

    • Mooser
      November 27, 2016, 1:07 pm

      “The Torah warns against golden calf worship”

      Ah, so that’s why my parents hated that “Girl From Ipenema” song.

  6. Ossinev
    November 26, 2016, 6:41 am

    Meanwhile back in Israel :

    https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20150519-israeli-settlers-burn-250-olive-trees-in-bethlehem/

    All is not lost though – hot of the press the Yahoo is definitely going to do something about this settler terrorism:
    http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/LIVE-1.755044

    There are other Israelis who disagree with him though – just read what this wise intellectual has to say about the fires:

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-settler-leader-fires-are-divine-punishment-for-planned-settlement-uproot/

  7. Vera Gottlieb
    November 26, 2016, 9:25 am

    How much is the MSM reporting and how much is swept under the carpet???

  8. Ossinev
    November 26, 2016, 11:38 am

    @YF
    I think you need to regroup take a few deep breaths and rethink what you have said about Miko Peled. You have definitely spun yourself off the Hasbara cliff on this . Anyone who reads what Peled has said and then compares him to a”barking dog” is seriously in need of some intellectual therapy.

    To clamber back on to the cliff I suggest an apology for the “barking dog” remark and as therapy perhaps simply addressing ie accepting or denying or justifying what he has said about for example the detention and torture without charge of Palestinian activists. As it stands you come across on this one as a simple common or garden brainwashed Zionist apologist who has suffered a major panic attack because a respected humane and moral member of the tribe has dared to question the ethics of the US giving $33 billion in “aid” to what another member of the tribe the ex Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak has described as a country ” infected with the seeds of Fascism”

  9. rosross
    November 26, 2016, 11:47 am

    It is important to stop using terms like Arab and Jew. Most Arabs have nothing to do with this conflict and the term is only used to avoid the real word, Palestinian.

    And Israel does not represent Jews or Judaism and so the correct term is Israeli Jew, not Jew in general.

    Beyond which Arab is a cultural term like European and Jew is a religious label like Christian, and you cannot compare cultures and religions. The irony of course is that culturally Israel, not surprisingly, is more Arab now than the European culture the colonists brought with them.

    • Misterioso
      November 26, 2016, 10:38 pm

      “And Israel does not represent Jews or Judaism.”

      Then, surely, it is long since time that anti-Zionist Jews organize worldwide and demand that Netanyahu and his ilk cease referring to Israel as the “Jewish state” and no longer insist that Palestinians recognize it as such as a condition for a peaceful settlement of the conflict.

      • Mooser
        November 27, 2016, 12:56 pm

        Good lord, “Mysterioso” how can you say that? If Jews all over the world did what you ask (“demand that Netanyahu and his ilk cease referring to Israel as the “Jewish state”) our Tribal Unity would be gone! And that would be the end of us.

        Remember what Abraham said: “A house without Tribal Unity cannot stand against itself”!

    • Maghlawatan
      November 27, 2016, 1:17 pm

      I read in Haaretz a while ago that the word Palestinian was invented in 1964 or something similar.

      The Israelis run a system where Palestinians are separated into 6 categories .
      But it’s stupid because outside Israel nobody recognises the system.

      Israeli Hebrew is absolutely fascinating. It is a closed system of thinking and has been moving ever closer to fascism over the years.

      I have never been able to have a rational conversation with an Israeli Jew about Gaza.
      They go off the deep end thanks to the Hebrew iterations.

      • Mooser
        November 28, 2016, 11:34 am

        “They go off the deep end thanks to the Hebrew iterations.”

        I have only ever seen the Ziocaine Syndrome manifested in English, and that’s bad enough.

  10. MRW
    November 27, 2016, 12:36 am

    Americans are taught that Rosa Parks was a little old lady who got on the bus, and was really tired and sat in the first available seat that just happened to be a white seat. And she just sat down because she was tired. We know that was complete nonsense. She was an activist, and it was done in order to provoke.

    Bravo! He’s informed.

    Rosa Parks was working for Ella Baker, the real leader of the civil rights movement, not MLK. Baker taught Parks how to agitate through peaceful means, as Baker taught thousands of activists at the time. MLK never did. Historian Charles Payne documented this with recorded history in his memorable 1998 book I’ve Got the Light of Freedom.

    MLK’s legacy was a concoction of Coretta King, his widow, who campaigned hard during the 70s for the MLK holiday Reagan signed into being in 1983. I remember Coretta King’s efforts well.

    • Annie Robbins
      November 27, 2016, 1:36 am

      MLK’s legacy was a concoction of Coretta King

      well, there was this:

      • MRW
        November 27, 2016, 3:29 am

        Exactly. A wonderful soaring speech. In 1968.

        But Ella Baker was born in 1904, and started her civil rights activism when she was 16 [I think she already at Howard University but don’t hold me to it…I don’t feel like scouring my computer to get the details] in 1920, nine years before MLK was born.

        When MLK was 11 years old, Baker was excoriating the NAACP in Harlem (1940) for their lack of effort, and faulting them for using the wrong approach. She advocated non-violence, and she did not agree with diminishing the efforts of rich white women in fur coats who were drawn to the movement. She said we need these people, they are a bridge. She was fiercely independent in her thinking and strategy.

        One of her phrases was, “Strong people don’t need strong leaders.” Another, “Martin didn’t make the movement. The movement made Martin.”

        MLK came to prominence within the movement in 1954. He was a man: acceptable. But understand the times. She was black and a woman. The femaleness of herself was more of detriment to her prominence than her blackness.

        The recorded interviews with the original civil rights figures of the 60s in Charles Payne’s book are a testament to her greatness. She organized the Freedom Riders, founded all the major alphabets of the civil rights movement, like SNCC, and organized the lunchroom protesters. She trained every single one of the civil rights lights that we remember.

        After the Civil Rights Act was passed, few Americans knew the history of what Blacks had been through, nor did they care. So Coretta king was free to craft one that they could believe. Because of that wonderful speech, most Americans are willing to believe that MLK was the driving force behind the movement. He was not. She was. She is given short shrift because she was quiet, level-headed, and effective. And a woman.

        But every single civil rights poobah still alive in the 1990s as Charles Payne recorded them for his book treats her as the singular god of their movement. Their deep reverence and awe is real.

      • MRW
        November 27, 2016, 3:40 am
      • Annie Robbins
        November 27, 2016, 9:41 am

        thanks mrw, but i’m not sure how anything you’ve written about baker supports the notion martin’s legacy was concocted. do you deny the notion he was a leader in the civil rights movement? here, briefly, is his legacy:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King_Jr.

        Martin Luther King Jr. (born Michael King Jr., January 15, 1929 – April 4, 1968) was an American Baptist minister and activist who was a leader in the African-American Civil Rights Movement. He is best known for his role in the advancement of civil rights using nonviolent civil disobedience based on his Christian beliefs.
        King became a civil rights activist early in his career. He led the 1955 Montgomery bus boycott and helped found the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) in 1957, serving as its first president. With the SCLC, King led an unsuccessful 1962 struggle against segregation in Albany, Georgia (the Albany Movement), and helped organize the 1963 nonviolent protests in Birmingham, Alabama. King also helped to organize the 1963 March on Washington, where he delivered his famous “I Have a Dream” speech. There, he established his reputation as one of the greatest orators in American history.

        what part of this is would you assess as a “concoction”?

      • Mooser
        November 27, 2016, 1:12 pm

        “Annie” , please, get a clue.
        From now on, all American heroes and activists must be as genuine as Trump.
        He’s set a new standard, and MLK don’t meet it!

  11. Talkback
    November 27, 2016, 4:32 am

    Yonah Fredman barking about “hate” and framing Palestinian suffering as a “siren song” at the same time.

    • Maghlawatan
      November 27, 2016, 1:27 pm

      All in a day’s work.
      Shooting and crying

      Zionism is an attempt to override time, space and reality
      You either believe or you don’t

      • Mooser
        November 28, 2016, 11:49 am

        “Zionism is an attempt to override time, space and reality You either believe or you don’t”

        I believe a community of 2 billion Jews, working together, can accomplish almost anything! Our biggest problem is handling our own growth.

    • W.Jones
      November 27, 2016, 4:10 pm

      It sounded like yonah knows peled is right about palestinian suffering, but he still comes down against Peled.
      It reminds me of jvp’s initial reaction against peled, which has been stranger than yonah’s. You might guess that jvp discussed the matter among its leadership before taking a position against peled.

      Before 2015 when they came out against Weir, JVP was an excellent top rate organization in my eyes, along with us ceio. But I have trouble seeing why fully legitimate Palestinian solidarity organizations would make such misleading accusations.

      It’s like how I don’t understand why any antiwar liberals would to push for conflicts and interventions in the mideast and Libya.

      • echinococcus
        November 28, 2016, 9:27 am

        Jones,

        Certainly JVP leadership discussed its vile attack against Peled with its own leadership. According to defector reports, though, this kind of thing is decided by the governing bodies alone, the rank and file are not consulted.

        Very acute observation, that on the likeness between the JVP leadership witchhunts and the complicity of “antiwar” liberals in crimes against peace and war of aggression. Piecing together different info, it looks as if many of the same actors are part of both.

  12. yonah fredman
    November 27, 2016, 1:19 pm

    There is no deception involved in listening to the very real suffering of the Palestinians. But the idea of stopping up one’s ears is something that miko peled’s deafness recalls.

  13. yonah fredman
    November 27, 2016, 1:22 pm

    The comparison of the provocations by Rosa Parks of breaking an unjust law with peled’s slimy scummy smelly usage of stereotypes is further evidence of the deafness of the general’s son.

    • oldgeezer
      November 27, 2016, 7:35 pm

      @yonah

      I agree peled’s comment was offensive. Not one thousandth as offensive as the decades long abuse of milliobs of humans and the denial of their basic human rights. Not even a insignificant fraction as offensive as a racially based supremacist society which risibly claims to be a democracy.

      Israel makes Peled look like a hero and a saint while the supporters of racism and immorality rail against him.

      • W.Jones
        November 28, 2016, 6:28 am

        Geezer,
        What is offenaive about the thesis that if a state dedicated to only one nationality conquers and brutally supresses another nationality indefinitely, it inadvertently came the nationality that it is dedicated to look bad?

        If I told you that England’s repression of Ireland for 300 years makes English look bad to some people, would my statement of fact offend you?

      • oldgeezer
        November 28, 2016, 10:36 am

        @W.Jones

        Seriously?

        Israel may claim to represent all Jews but it has no basis for that claim.

        That Jews, which by definition would mean all Jews including non Israeli Jews, should look bad for the actions of either the GoI or Jewish Israelis is a great overreach which only panders to bigots.

        The comparison to English and England doesn’t work. If he had restricted it to Israelis or Israeli Jews then it would have been more suitable.

        Jews as a world wide collective are no more responsible for, or tainted by the crimes and actions of Israel than worldwide Muslims are for the crimes of ISIS.

      • Mooser
        November 28, 2016, 1:20 pm

        “Jews as a world wide collective are no more responsible for, or tainted by the crimes and actions of Israel”

        Who pours money into the settlements? Who supports the occupation? Who makes up the multitude of Zionist organizations supporting Israel?

        By any sensible accounting, we is it.

      • oldgeezer
        November 28, 2016, 2:30 pm

        @Mooser

        Are you suggestig that I should hold you as one of the responsible? How about Phil? Some 3 year old Jewish kid? Do Christian zionists get off with a free pass?

        I do consider zionists responsible. Particularly leadership of zionists organizations and advocates.

        But Jews as a collective? Nope. Not me.

      • Mooser
        November 28, 2016, 3:34 pm

        “Are you suggestig that I should hold you as one of the responsible? How about Phil? Some 3 year old Jewish kid?”

        I guess it depends on how you feel about “the Jews as a collective”.

      • oldgeezer
        November 28, 2016, 6:31 pm

        @mooser

        I don’t view Jewish people as a collective but as a group of individuals. Some of them are.involved and share some degree of responsibility. Same as some Christians. Some atheists and other groups as well, no doubt. The common theme would be either zionism or profitting from zionism without necessarily sharing the philosophy (think some politicians, companies such as caterpillar, etc)

        I’m not sure what has popped up on your radar but I will repeat that, in my opinion, Jews are not collectively responsible for the crimes and actions of Israel. I think any suggestion that they are is offensive. That was my original comment and I will stand by it.

      • W.Jones
        November 28, 2016, 7:39 pm

        Dear Geezer,

        You misunderstood Peled and me. Peled never said “Jews are sleazy”. I never said that the state’s bad actions justifies or proves negative ideas about the nationality it is dedicated to.

        Instead, Peled said that the nation state’s sleaziness cold cause some people to think that this reflects the state’s dedicated nationality . He did not actually say that such impressions about the nationality would be correct.

        Do you see the difference?

        Regards.

      • oldgeezer
        November 28, 2016, 9:44 pm

        @W.Jones

        I saw that when I first responded to yonah. I don’t find his tweet offensive for blaming all Jews. I find it offensive for excusing bigotry directed to all people of the Jewish faith. It amounts to a who can blame them justification. I can.

      • W.Jones
        November 29, 2016, 9:48 am

        Dear Geezer,
        Peled did not “Crimes by a state dedicated to one ethnicity or religion cause people to CORRECTLY blame that ethnicity or religion”.

        He said it can cause people to make that association.

        Do you see the difference?

        I think that conquests undertaken by Christian countries or by Muslim countires have created a reputation for Christians or Muslims to spread their faith by conquest. Marc Ellis has written here on MW making these kinds of generalizations, saying that Christians spread their religion by conquest.

        In the paragraph above, where did I ever say or imply “Christians CORRECTLY have a reputation for spreading their religion by conquest because of the actions of Christian kingdoms”?
        In fact I have repeatedly objected to Marc Ellis that one cannot equate the actions of Christian states with those of “The Christians”.

        This is one reason why it is so hard to advocate for Palestinians as an activist in the US. You are someone who sincerely cares about Palestinians. And your case is not unique. Critical discussions about Israel unavoidably bring up the topic of the Jewish people, because the Israeli state claims to represent them everywhere as their home. And when that happens, there are very many people who do like you just did and insert anti-Jewish insinuations and implications that are not inherent in the critical statements made by the activists.

        So if someone says that “In 16th c. Greece the Muslims repressed the Christians and forcibly converted some of them to Islam”, people understand that to be a statement of fact. But if someone says “In early 1948 in Palestine the Jews had already begun expelling Muslim and Christian villages”, then some other people will automatically insert all kinds of implications into that statement, as if it blames The Jewish People per se.

        This kind of inserting anti Jewish discriminatory sentiment where it may not actually exist goes a long way to shutting down critical discourse in America about Palestinians’ suffering under Israeli rule, since the state is dedicated to The Jewish people. That fact instantly creates de facto “pro Israeli” anti critical defensive walls in the minds of many otherwise thoughtful progressives.

        How else can you explain why JVP would automatically applaud shutting down Peled’s human rights speaking campaign?

    • Maghlawatan
      November 28, 2016, 2:36 pm

      Yonah

      At this stage the stereotypes are kinder than the reality of the Sabras.
      Back in the shetl nobody was brainwashed. There were no Jewish torturers . No interrogators threatening to rape wives or sisters. There was no depleted uranium.

      Ben Gurion said it doesn’t matter what the Goys think. What matters is what the Jews do.

      Actually it matters what the goys think about what the Jews do. A lot.

  14. yonah fredman
    November 27, 2016, 8:44 pm

    Miko peled believes his provocative language helps the cause of the Palestinians. I seek to prove that his language doesn’t help them.

    • Maghlawatan
      November 28, 2016, 1:14 am

      The reality is it doesn’t matter what Peled does. Israel won’t change. The people who run Israel brook no criticism. It is all antisemitic by definition.
      Israel will just collapse all by its little self and Yossi Israeli will say WTF .

      The Peled family are very impressive. His sister Nurit wrote a stunna about Israeli education. “There is just what is. What could be is a dirty lie”

    • echinococcus
      November 28, 2016, 2:48 am

      Reb Feldman,

      Incorrigible.

      I seek to prove that his language doesn’t help them.

      For seven years, if not longer, you sought to prove exactly the same thing with regard to any and everything that is not entirely favorable to Zionist theft and genocide. It’s not as if you were starting.

      Do you really think all the people except your team are morons? Really?

  15. Stephen Shenfield
    November 29, 2016, 6:41 am

    In illustration of Miko Peled’s comments about the isolation of almost all Israeli Jews from Palestinians, let me describe an internet exchange I had recently with an Israeli. He was going on about ‘Palestinian anti-Semitism’ and I mentioned that none of the Palestinians I had known were anti-Semitic. He then asked me to persuade the Palestinians I knew to stop doing acts of terrorism. I explained that I couldn’t do that because none of the Palestinians I knew were engaged in terrorism. But he was unable to absorb that point because a little later he repeated his request. That was when I gave up on him.

  16. Citizen
    November 29, 2016, 7:42 am

    The USA’s reputation in the world has greatly fallen, and the target on USA’s back has swelled; and two main reasons are interrelated: The neocon/neoliberal wars & de facto rubber stamping of Israel’s rogue agenda. And these things have cost US taxpayers trillions in combination, even while the average American has benefited not at all from them, but in fact has lost much, as signaled by Bernie & Trump fans in the recent elections. Grifters work writ large: That latest $38 Billion Obama gave to Israel, with Trump promising Jewish influence groups he will give more–and all the while the media assures there will be no informed consent. Pretty sleazy, eh?

  17. yonah fredman
    November 29, 2016, 3:10 pm

    Peled’s “I don’t know what antisemitism means” is another outrageous utterance.
    Kansas city April 2014 Jewish community center antisemitism kills 3 nonjews. Paris kosher market January 2015 antisemitism kills 4 jews.

    • Mooser
      November 29, 2016, 4:17 pm

      Psst, “Yonah” two orders of magnitude, okay? 300 dead Jewish non-Jews in Kansas City, 400 Jews in Paris.
      Stop minimizing these things into near insignificance, “Yonah”

      We need to stay well ahead of their piddling 2.38 persons Imagine, all that over .38 person!

    • oldgeezer
      November 29, 2016, 6:23 pm

      @yonah

      Four days of actively highjacking the article shows you have nothing of meaningful substance to counter his statements.

      No surprise there. Neither facts nor morality are on the zionist side.

      Oh! I do give you full credit for blaming Peled for your highjacking things. Never it be said that you can accept responsibility for your own actions. Ruins that victinhood image if you do.

      • W.Jones
        November 29, 2016, 9:48 pm

        Geezer,
        You are right that Yonah hijacked the thread, which is his standard MO here, making anti Palestinian commentary, vacuous or otherwise (eg. his woof comment).

        I also like that you understand Palestinians’ human rights needs. This brings me to something that is quite relevant to thread and curious, namely, the challenge of understanding how supporters of Palestinian rights like perhaps the JVP leadership or yourself could find Peled’s and Bruce Shipman’s statements to be inherently anti-Semitic.

        I request that you please review Phil’s mention on the Shipman case here:
        http://mondoweiss.net/2014/09/sentence-chaplains-resignation/
        I also responded to your last comment to me above.

        Namely, why do you believe that saying “Severe abuses by a state dedicated to only one ethnicity or religion can lead to negative impressions about the ethnicity or religion on question” implies that anyone who forms those impressions is CORRECT to do so?

        If I told you that Germany’s crimes in WWII led to discrimination against German Americans, would you be able to say reliably if I believed that the discrimination was excusable?

        One of the big obstacles to addressing Human rights in the Holy Land is that activists are given the burden of proving that they are not antiJewish by not only anti-Pals like Yonah here, but by professed advocates like JVP. I have even heard such supposed sympathizers of Palestinians in denouncing A. Weir claim that Yes, activists have to first prove totally that they are not racists, or else they are racist.

        It’s like by working on the IP issue over a long time, it’s guaranteed that JVP or others will automatically presume that something objectively factual you said is anti-Semitic, even if like Peled you happen to be Jewish.

      • oldgeezer
        November 29, 2016, 11:22 pm

        @w.jones

        I didn’t see this post earlier and as it is quite late my reply will be quite brief.

        I have already stated why I find the tweet offensive. I have never said it was antisemitic and i think such a claim was ludicrous. Even if it could be shown that peled was driven by hate it would be hatred of the policies and actions of the GoI and zionists not Jews per se.

        I don’t have time to redread that old article. It isn’t relevant to my comments here regardless. I felt shipman was wrongly attacked as is peled.

        It isn’t a matter of whether it is correct to do so or not. Peled could have quite easily more directly framed his tweet at the proper target and not a who can blame them type of thing.

        As i said … not detailed and probably my last response on this topic. You have clearly read things into what i said which were not there. I did not say it was antisemetic for instance.
        It is simply offensive. Of course when a rogue state breaks international law and international humanitarian law at every turn that offense is well deserved at every point both for the gov and it’s supporters. The larger grouping is not a suitable target and i have addressed my feelings on that in the overall thread.

      • yonah fredman
        November 30, 2016, 2:10 am

        Who says something like that, I don’t even know what antisemitism means. A pompous idiot. And who backs him up. A choir of unthinking yesmen.

      • yonah fredman
        November 30, 2016, 2:32 am

        Who says something like this: my provocation is just like Rosa park’s provocation. An arrogant fool. Who answers amen? A choir of idiots.

      • W.Jones
        November 30, 2016, 10:16 am

        Dear Geezer,

        Thank you for writing back. Your views are important, because they could give insight into why people like JVP were offended by Peled’s tweet. I understand that you are not calling Peled “Anti-Semitic.”

        However, I have read all your messages and it’s as if you did not actually weigh what I asked you about, giving examples and analogies.

        For example, how exactly did Peled announce a “who can blame them type of thing”?

        Peled never said “Who can blame them?”!

        Peled, who is a Jewish Israeli, pointed out that the state, dedicated to only one religion/ethnicity, was getting very large US donations for its policies against a conquered religion/ethnicity. And he directly implied that people shouldn’t be surprised if it creates a negative reputation for the religion/ethnicity.

        Where exactly in the paragraph above did he say that the negative reputation was correct or actually ask “Who can blame them?”

        Why do you not understand that he never actually said what you are inserting into his statement? You have never given any specific explanation of where he actually clearly stated this.

        Why are you reading into his statements things that people don’t read into statements about Christian countries’ conquests of the Americas and the resulting impressions it creates about Christians, correct or not? It’s a very important question, because JVP is repeatedly doing the same thing when it interprets statements by numerous activists this way.

      • Annie Robbins
        November 30, 2016, 10:57 am

        Why do you not understand that he never actually said what you are inserting into his statement?

        i think he understands that. that’s why he said “who can blame them type of thing” and “It amounts to a who can blame them justification.”

        you said “He said it can cause people to make that association. Do you see the difference?”

        i don’t really see much of a difference. i think sometimes you just have to accept that people have different opinions, impressions and/or conclusions than you do and accept you won’t always see eye to eye.

      • oldgeezer
        November 30, 2016, 10:36 am

        @yonah

        You have no leg to stand on yonah. No one who supports a Naka denying state which openly promotes and operates a racist state while denying basic human rights to millions of people has any moral right to question the character of Peled. You can’t even dream of having a fraction of his moral standing. Leave the dark side luke.

      • W.Jones
        November 30, 2016, 11:36 am

        i think sometimes you just have to accept that people have different opinions, impressions and/or conclusions than you do and accept you won’t always see eye to eye.

        Annie,
        You are right, and I wish it was that simple. With Geezer it could be a moot point, since he is saying Peled was not antiSemitic.

        It becomes a practical obstacle to activism when these “impressions” are used as a basis to target the leading activists for human rights issues. De Facto it has the appearance of finding some “politically correct” bases to denounce them. So JVP and US CEIO can write out long denunciations, but when you pick them apart, the denouncers can’t give specific, exact explanations as to what is supposedly anti-Semitic.

        It’s like the Bullard case. Wasserman and others didn’t need to explain to Bullard on the phone that he was “anti-Semitic” or anti-liberal or anti-American, or even explain how BDS is inherently anti-Israel (Chomsky says BDS is not anti-Israel, for example). All Wasserman and the apparatchiks and lobbyists need to do is to make denunciations of Bullard or threats to him, in order to impose their political will and make him lose his re-election.

        Same thing with JVP and US CEIO. They have become “big deals” now and don’t feel a need to give an actual blow by blow account and dialogue about what they have claimed to be various anti-Semitisms in the activists they denounce. They just make private judgments on their own – their leadership decided to support canceling Peled’s talks, and no discussion with the membership was needed. And when JVP reversed their decision, again, no public discussion was needed about the specifics of the accusations.

      • Mooser
        November 30, 2016, 5:12 pm

        “Who says something like this: my provocation is just like Rosa park’s provocation. An arrogant fool”

        Don’t worry “Yonah” you will always ride up front. I’ll just wipe the nose and paw-prints off the windows when we get home.

    • Maghlawatan
      November 29, 2016, 6:36 pm

      Yonah

      Zionism has been at war with Islam for at least 15 years.
      https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4529120/netanyahus-expert-testimony-iraq-2002

      You have to take the hits in war. I can post you stuff from the Israeli trenches if you want.
      If you don’t agree with the war take it up with AIPAC or the ZOA. Dead Jews feed the war machine. You can’t have a war without casualties on your side. Just because you don’t want any.

      Old school antisemitism on the other hand means abusing Jews because of the shape of their face . Not because of Zionism being at war. It has nothing to do with Muslims.

      And Peled never saw that.
      Finkelstein also said in Defmamation that real antisemitism didn’t exist-
      But that was before Trump. ..
      It is very messy.

      • yonah fredman
        November 30, 2016, 2:16 am

        Antisemitism is a disease. The Kansas city nut job is more obvious to American ears than the worthless feces of Paris and the hyper cacher, because kc murderer is familiar to us. He masks his hatred in antizionism as well. Do you consider him blowback from zionism? (Or is it because his victims were not jewish that you don’t consider his motive of jew hatred to count.)

      • Annie Robbins
        November 30, 2016, 9:39 am

        yonah, how did Frazier Glenn Cross “masks his hatred in antizionism” ? please explain.

      • eljay
        November 30, 2016, 9:44 am

        || yonah fredman: Antisemitism is a disease. … ||

        I agree. So is Zio-supremacism. Both comprise hatred and murder. People driven by either ideology to commit (war) crimes should be held accountable for their actions.

        I condemn anti-Semitism and Zio-supremacism. It’s a shame you hypocritically condemn one evil but wholeheartedly support the other.

      • yonah fredman
        November 30, 2016, 9:55 am

        Annie- you’re right. He merely adorns his antisemitism with his ZOG talk. No attempt to disguise. Are anti Zionists ready to make common cause with him because of his ZOG rhetoric?

      • Annie Robbins
        November 30, 2016, 10:42 am

        sorry i am still confused. first he masks now he adorns. i forget what zog stands for. do you have any quotes of his or links so i can more fully understand what you’re referencing by his “zog rhetoric”? and what’s this common cause thing? seriously yonah, he was a straight up murdering anti semite. i fail to see how zionism or anti zionism plays into it. did he mention israel or something? you’ve lost me. just a link or a few quotes please so i can grasp your meaning.

      • Maghlawatan
        November 30, 2016, 10:57 am

        Antisemitism is a function of western capitalism.
        Chinese people in Jakarta play a similar economic role to Jews in the West and they get attacked every so often.
        Lebanese in West Africa as well.

        I think the Jewish attitude to power is a mess.
        But keep on whining, Yonah

      • yonah fredman
        November 30, 2016, 12:32 pm

        annie- zog stands for zionist occupied government. according to wikipedia this use of the term zionist is unrelated to zionism as you and i know it, but more related to protocols of the elders of zion. pat buchanan used to talk about congress as israeli occupied territory, a phrase you might wish to include in your rhetoric. to my ears, the distance between zog, zionist occupied government and congress as israeli occupied territory is minimal.

      • Mooser
        November 30, 2016, 5:20 pm

        “this use of the term zionist is unrelated to zionism as you and i know i “

        Gee “Yonah” I don’t want to rush you, but you were going to tell us something about Frazier Glenn Cross? Remember him? Something about masks, and self-styling Adorn?

        “pat buchanan used to talk about congress as israeli occupied territory, a phrase you might wish to include in your rhetoric”

        Damn! “Congress as israeli occupied territory”! Wish I had thought of that.

      • Mooser
        November 30, 2016, 6:03 pm

        “Are anti Zionists ready to make common cause with him because of his ZOG rhetoric?”

        “Yonah” you are arguing with yourself again! You, and nobody else but you, brought up “ZOG” and the Kansas shooting.

  18. PofTarsus
    November 30, 2016, 12:41 am

    “The Zionist narrative, which claims its roots in biblical stories of the ancient Hebrews, is taught as history, although little or no historical proof exists to substantiate it.

    “The Zionist narrative is a ‘value’ that goes hand in hand with democracy, freedom and tolerance, while the Palestinian narrative is associated with lies, hatred, violence and bigotry.”
    —– Miko Peled, National Press Club, Washington DC, Apr. 10, 2015

    • Citizen
      November 30, 2016, 11:43 am

      What is the Palestinian version of the story of Joshua and how G-D gave him a blank check to commit genocide for his, the chosen people?

      Also, please consider in the same logical vein re the “invention of the Palestinian people,”, if Palestinians are simply “Arabs.”, then, to be logically consistent, aren’t Jewish Israelis, simply “Jews”?

      All depends on how you frame the picture, eh? And goose, gander?

      No state has the “right to exist, ” as where would that right come from? But, OTOH, all peoples have a right to self-determination–so long as that does not beat down another peoples’ right to self-determination?

      Further, the Nuremberg & Tokyo Trials hung state leaders, and the ex post facto law applied at those trials was incorporated as universal law in Geneva IV. This makes Israel a rogue state, the actual reverse of what was won at the cost of the total dead from WW1 thru WW2. “Never Again.”

      Israel is guilty of waging aggressive wars, the number one root evil for which German leadership was hung at Nuremberg.

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