Why Obama waited 8 years to take on Netanyahu

US Politics
on 106 Comments

Yesterday was one of the most dispiriting days in the history of U.S. foreign policy. In a long valedictory speech, secretary of state John Kerry told Americans what was preventing peace in the Middle East: unending Jewish settlements in the fragment of historic Palestine that Palestinians accepted as theirs. The speech was more blunt than any earlier pronouncement from this administration about the end of the dream of a Palestinian state; afterward people praised Kerry’s passion and personal engagement, and a leading editor said he should receive the Nobel Prize.

The speech was tragic for a simple reason. Everything Kerry said was known to him and President Obama eight years ago. The speech repeated warnings that President George H.W. Bush and his secretary of state made to the Israelis 25 years ago, when the illegal Jewish settlement project was a mere stripling of 25. And though the UN Security Council resolution of last week condemning settlements is a victory for Palestinians, and may well precipitate a crisis inside Israeli politics, it is not as if Obama succeeded in his 8-year quest to make a Palestinian state. No, he and Kerry failed.

That is the great political puzzle that these last-minute gyrations compel us to try and understand. Obama has finally done what he wanted to do and taken on Benjamin Netanyahu and exposed his extremism. Why did he wait so long? The answer is simple: the Israel lobby was against any real action. Jewish Americans of my generation and older opposed any pressure on Israel. So there was no pressure (till now, and Trump).

Here is a fact that proves my point: John Kerry’s closing act as secretary of state is a 72-minute speech devoted to a problem that was removed from the Democratic Party platform just five months before. Remember– Clintonites insisted that the words settlements and occupation appear nowhere in the party platform.

As Elise Labott said last night on CNN, Obama did not push the settlements/Palestinian state issue before the election out of deference to Hillary Clinton. Labott was saying, without saying it, that Clinton was so dependent on the Jewish establishment and large Jewish donors, that she could not “undermine [the] party’s fundraising capabilities” (as the National Journal says) by saying a word against Israel. Today on NPR Daoud Kuttab said very much the same thing: that presidents take these actions in their last months when they are freed of “domestic, political, lobbying” pressures. This is a central truth of our politics that ought to be explored. But NPR promptly brought on Aaron David Miller to refute it; Miller said it was a “myth” that lobbying affects US policy.

Just as an NPR host two days ago allowed the Anti-Defamation League to label Keith Ellison’s statement about the Israel lobby a “bigoted” claim of a “Jewish conspiracy.” Just as Chris Hayes said last night on MSNBC that paleo-conservatives’ claims of the existence of a Zionist lobby smack of anti-Semitism. I suppose it is anti-semitic for me to point out that the executive vice president at Hayes’s company, Comcast, is a Jewish-American who has shown ardent support for Israel, raising money for Israel’s soldiers right along MSNBC favorite Ed Rendell. Or that an executive vice president at Time Warner, which owns the other liberal cable network, is a Jewish-American who wrote speeches for Benjamin Netanyahu.

This is not a conspiracy; it is a belief system about the need for a Jewish state that runs deep in a very empowered American community and is only now being interrogated as an affront to liberalism. Walt and Mearsheimer tried to talk about it ten years ago, and they were smeared. PS. And don’t blame the Christian right; they don’t tell Democrats what to say about abortion or gay rights or women’s rights. As Wikileaks showed us, Clinton spent months cultivating Netanyahu and hedging the Iran deal. Obama could not throw Netanyahu under the bus.

I know that we should also be thankful to Kerry and Obama for this moment.

Hanan Ashrawi

Hanan Ashrawi

We are having the most open discussion about the settlements and the occupation and Israeli extremism that we have ever had in this country. The great Hanan Ashrawi was on CNN this morning explaining that Palestinians have a right to resist military occupation. Noura Erakat was on MSNBC twice yesterday unapologetically using the word “apartheid” to describe Israel’s regime in the West Bank and East Jerusalem (ten years after Jimmy Carter used the word and was politically destroyed with the complicity of the Democratic establishment). Kerry himself used the word Nakba yesterday, it appears the first time a State Department official has done so, and that breaks a seal. Today the New York Times’s Peter Baker quotes Ali Abunimah. Another breakthrough. Jeremy Ben-Ami says that 90 percent of Americans don’t know the facts Kerry was telling them. Now they’re learning. Chris Hayes is leading the way here by all-but-stating the two state solution is dead.

By their actions, Obama/Kerry have also exposed the haywire extremism of Netanyahu and the Israeli political leadership. Netanyahu is out of control, talking about his hidden proof that the Americans initiated the UN resolution, and it’s a “declaration of war.” He is only alienating world opinion more with everything he says. Last night the open battle between the two administrations was the top story on the networks. It is sure to change Israeli politics.

But again: Obama could have done this eight years ago, taken on Netanyahu, and he didn’t. He could have precipitated this crisis, and he didn’t. He made gestures toward doing so, but he was promptly branded anti-Israel, and Jeffrey Goldberg did nothing to stop that lie; and Obama’s backup J Street, which had said it was going to drive a wedge on the issue of settlements inside the Jewish community, folded its hand and said, Let’s just talk about borders.

That they are driving that wedge now is the achievement of Donald Trump: he finally gave the left-liberals political capital, by smashing the Clinton elites and dividing the Israel lobby with his extremism.

Now the liberals and the left are in the same camp. In one segment, Chris Hayes has Noura Erakat talking about apartheid and liberal California Rep. Brad Sherman saying that the Palestinian right of return means that Palestinians want to expel all Jews from the Middle East. These views are irreconcilable. Sherman is expressing bigotry. The Democratic Party will support justice in the Middle East only if it takes on the forces of intolerance in its own ranks. That means the Israel lobby. You can’t defeat an enemy if you can’t name it.

H/t Scott Roth, Yakov Hirsch, Donald Johnson, Adam Horowitz. 

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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106 Responses

  1. Theo
    December 29, 2016, 10:40 am

    Nobel Prize for Kerry? Are you serious? Obama already got one before he did a single thing, and he stayed with that position, not doing a single thing!
    Nobel Peace Prize is cheap, easy to get, mass murderers got it, therefore for an honest person it is a disgrace, an insult.

    • eljay
      December 29, 2016, 11:10 am

      If too little, too late is deserving of some sort of prize, Barry and Kerry are worthy recipients.

    • Steve Macklevore
      December 29, 2016, 11:35 am

      Obama got his prize for not being George W Fuckwit. The world was profoundly grateful to him for that, and continues to be.

      • Mooser
        December 29, 2016, 3:11 pm

        “The world was profoundly grateful to him for that, and continues to be.”

        Give ’em a few months, “Steve”. Lot of people really slow on the pick-up. There is no magic in the US Presidency which turns a Trump into an Obama.

      • echinococcus
        December 30, 2016, 1:01 am

        Mooser,

        When you have a clear and relevant difference, please ring.

      • Mooser
        December 30, 2016, 11:33 am

        “When you have a clear and relevant difference, please ring.”

        Okay, I’ll keep looking, and as soon as I find something, I’ll let you know.

    • lembert
      December 30, 2016, 10:40 am

      since when does “a leading editor said he should receive the Nobel Prize” suggest that the author also thinks that, as your question “are you serious?” implies? I take that to mean that Phil was noting how seriously others took the speech, nothing more or less.

    • CigarGod
      December 30, 2016, 10:54 am

      That action by the Nobel committee is the best proof I have seen of the virus that makes us all think words are more important than actions.

  2. AddictionMyth
    December 29, 2016, 11:12 am

    No it was not possible 8 years ago, and for exactly the reason you mention: Trump’s extremism. Now we see that Boobi and Trump are just different versions of supremacism. This was not obvious 8 years ago except to people with highly tuned moral compasses like you (I say that respectfully). In his speech Kerry accused Israel of inciting violence. He was basically calling them terrorists. He could not have gotten away with that until recently. Your work helped pave the way for it, take a little credit. :-)

    • JWalters
      December 29, 2016, 7:58 pm

      The huge difficulty America has in discussing the simple facts of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict shows the tyrannical grip Israel has on the U.S. When a country cannot discuss certain facts in an open and practical way, that county is by definition living under tyranny. I second your thanks to the Mondoweiss team for their very important role in documenting and analyzing this tragic situation.

  3. Annie Robbins
    December 29, 2016, 1:45 pm

    great wrap up phil.

  4. Atlantaiconoclast
    December 29, 2016, 3:31 pm

    CNN and MSNBC have small audiences. Once Fox starts bringing Palestinians back on then I will have some hope.

    • Mooser
      December 29, 2016, 6:12 pm

      “Once Fox starts bringing Palestinians back on…”

      When was the first time?

      • Atlantaiconoclast
        December 29, 2016, 11:29 pm

        They used to have them on quite often, even during the height of the suicide bombings. Fox has only become more hardcore pro Israel. They literally have no one on there to share the Palestinian perspective. Even Juan Williams has been cucked.

      • Mooser
        December 29, 2016, 11:47 pm

        “They used to have them on quite often, even during the height of the suicide bombings.”

        Well, perhaps if you tell me what year was “the height of the suicide bombings” by Palestinians, I can look it up on the web.

        Does anybody know what “Atlanta” is referring to, when FOX featured Palestinian voices? I might very well have missed it.

    • JWalters
      December 29, 2016, 7:39 pm

      Bill Maher suddenly lost his “Politically Incorrect” show when he started having Palestinian students on, who started telling Americans the true historical facts about Israel in Palestine. After years in the broadcasting wilderness Maher was allowed back in, now as loyal defender of Israel. (Not a conspiracy.)

      • Atlantaiconoclast
        December 29, 2016, 11:31 pm

        Why are people so afraid to use that word, conspiracy? It just means two or more plotting to do something in secret or without publicizing it.

      • echinococcus
        December 30, 2016, 1:42 am

        Well, “sensitive” words necessarily get fed to the propaganda chopper.

        “Conspiracy to commit aggression” was the charge under which the Nuremberg Court hanged the Nazi government, and Justice Jackson for the US promised to hang all future such conspirators to commit aggression –even if they were American.

        One would suppose that, under the circumstances, “conspiracy” couldn’t get a fair shake in a world run by the remaining Nazis and similar conspirators.

    • CigarGod
      December 30, 2016, 11:01 am

      Huh?
      I remember Israeli’s brought on to give us the Palestinian point of view.
      I recall dark complected Israeli’s and dark complected American Jews brought on to give the Palestinian point of view.
      I recall dark complected journalists brought on to give the Palestinian point of view.

      I remember that magic show…that continues to fool most of the people most of the time.

  5. DaBakr
    December 29, 2016, 4:30 pm

    the man/family who built comcast did it from scratch, the hard way from working. roberts can do whatever they want with a company their father built from dust without being associated with a racist bigoted conspiracy obsession the owner of this blog promotes. that you consider them part of your fantastical conspiracy is just one more proof of why PW will always be considered a jew-hater who happens to be jewish and owns a blog which has consistently been labeled a “hate site”

    p.s. the “reason” that obama and kerry didn’t push their ‘true and heartfelt’ views on the UNSC or the american public is simple. thye were total cowards. there would have been a shtload LESS shenanigans with netanyahu had obama spelled out his position in january ’13 (i’ll even give the wanker the first 4 where he would be ‘too scared’ of losing the 75% jewish vote in ’12). There would have been the usual dustup but the policy position would be out there for the US congress to deal with. I still think he gives great speeches with an amazing speaking voice but he has proven himself haughty, under-handed and immature worried more about a questionable legacy then america’s standing in the world. and kerry? he may truly be heartfelt which doesn’t make him right. but he served at the pleasure of the president. so- that puts it on BO and his puppet master-BR. Cowardly backstabbing and rhodes admitted he created lies to cover themselves.

    • Mooser
      December 29, 2016, 6:17 pm

      Uh-oh, “dabakr” is doing the ‘mutter-and-glare’ thing again. Doesn’t he know how off-putting that is?

    • Talkback
      December 30, 2016, 6:35 am

      DaBakr;: “Roberts can do whatever they want with a company their father built from dust without being associated with a racist bigoted conspiracy obsession the owner of this blog promotes. that you consider them part of your fantastical conspiracy is just one more proof of why PW will always be considered a jew-hater who happens to be jewish and owns a blog which has consistently been labeled a “hate site”

      So Roberts hasn’t shown ardent support for Israel, by raising money for Israel’s soldiers and the accusation that he is one of many Jews who are lobbying for Israel is not only bad, but a defamation of Jews as such. And if you and others consistently accuse Weiss of being a Jew hater and Mondoweiss of being a hate site than this is proof that both is true.

      Are you intentionally trying to be that stupid?

      • Mooser
        December 30, 2016, 10:56 am

        “Are you intentionally trying to be that stupid?”

        “Talkback”, it’s very hard not to come to the conclusion that the poor mamzer simply has no choice.

  6. joemowrey
    December 29, 2016, 5:29 pm

    “I know that we should also be thankful to Kerry and Obama for this moment. ”

    Really? This moment of nauseating hypocrisy? As was pointed out, the stuff that’s being done now could have and should have been done eight years ago. But eight years ago they might have been expected to actually do something more than make these kinds of last minute token efforts. This way they get to look like “progressives” without actually taking any political risk at all. In the larger picture, this stuff also makes the Dems look like a progressive party. That’s the objective, not any interest in doing the right thing or accomplishing anything meaningful.

    • echinococcus
      January 1, 2017, 2:54 pm

      The question, Joe Mowrey, is what exactly is being done now.
      The most probable explanation is not sudden grandstanding re Zionist settlements but a clumsy and ill-thought-through attempt at framing the Trump admin for years to come –which as usual exploded in the face of the Obama admin.
      Very plausible reading here:
      https://www.rt.com/op-edge/372430-temper-tantrums-brewing-diplomatic-obama/

      • Annie Robbins
        January 1, 2017, 3:25 pm

        how did the UN resolution explode in the face of the obama admin? and your article claimed “it was a grand set-up against Russia”, not really sure how it set up russia, or ‘threw russia [who voted for the resolution]under a bus’, by abstaining? also from your article:

        Washington has spent whatever political capital it has left in its democratic coffers to implode diplomacy, wreck the Middle Eastern narrative and throw fuel on the Palestine dossier, all in an effort to wreck Trump’s presidency

        do you think the resolution ‘imploded’ diplomacy, wrecked the ME narrative and threw fuel on the palestine’s dossier? my understanding is it was a palestinian initiative. why not blame palestine?

      • echinococcus
        January 2, 2017, 2:56 am

        Annie,

        Not a well-thought-out or well-worded article, agreed. But then, who believes a last-minute “rebuke” to the Zionists by Obama, their slave? The most plausible explanation –to some, at least– was this attempt to produce a text that does not explicitly condemn any occupation and expropriation until today, while pretending to wag a finger in a vague future, pre-empting somewhat more effective Ch. VII texts that were understood to be in preparation.

        my understanding is it was a palestinian initiative. why not blame palestine?

        While we are into geography, these Oslo collaborationists are exactly as Palestinian as Quisling was Norwegian. Anything coming from them is directly prepared wherever the owners of the US and Zionism sit. And this one has the give-away smell: do you want to sign or do you prefer a strange man-made leukemia?

        Anyway, right now they are the football between Dims and Pukes, with the former hellbent on WWIII.

  7. Felice Gelman
    December 29, 2016, 6:42 pm

    Just would like to say that, although American Jews certainly play a big part in Democratic politics setting and controlling the terms of the dialogue about Israel, Christian fundamentalists the arms industry and the intelligence agencies play an equally important role overall. Let’s not forget them or let them off the hook. The Christian fundamentalists and forces in the arms industry like Eric Prince shut up Republicans like George Bush senior. The American Jewish community has historically been in charge of keeping progressives in line. But the corrupt no-questions-asked alliance with Israel has the foundations of its support in the deep state.

    • Sibiriak
      December 30, 2016, 2:31 am

      @Felice Gelman

      Excellent points. Very important.

    • lembert
      December 30, 2016, 10:49 am

      yes, and as we see now with the bizarre new alignment of Dershowitz with the likes of Bannon and the new claim that one can actually overtly hate Jews and not be an anti-Semite, so long as one supports Israel. Just like Christian fundamentalists all over the US.

  8. JWalters
    December 29, 2016, 7:21 pm

    Lots of talk on Morning Joe about the Kerry speech. Very well controlled by Israel. Almost no discussion of the facts of the settlements; virtually no education of the American public – crucial for Israel. Lots of focus on a “personal” conflict between Obama and Netanyahu, a complete distraction. Lots of Israeli spokespeople and a stream of blatant lies from them, essentially unchallenged by the “free press”. Probably as good a cover-up as the Israelis could manage, given they have to maintain a facade of a free press. Some “objective” analysts also weighed in. They also tiptoed carefully around the key facts of the case, focusing on horse-race mechanics.

    Kerry’s problem – Imagine Elliot Ness trying to warn people about Al Capone, but being politically required to praise Capone in every third sentence. That is the power of the Israel Lobby.

    We need another speech informing the American people about the CRIMES of Israel, against both Palestinians and Americans. But who will bell the cat?

    • Atlantaiconoclast
      December 29, 2016, 11:41 pm

      “We need another speech informing the American people about the CRIMES of Israel, against both Palestinians and Americans.” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/12/obama-waited-netanyahu/comment-page-1/#comment-864995

      Yes indeed!!!!!!!!!! This is THE only way to change things. I have been hearing about changing perspectives in the Jewish community for years now. And what has it wrought? We are even farther away from a just settlement.

      • DaBakr
        January 1, 2017, 10:51 am

        @ai
        Yes. Further away. Nobody getting the Message. Circular thinking. Etc. Etc

    • JWalters
      December 30, 2016, 4:16 am

      In MSNBC’s main evening lineup Chris Hayes seems to the be point man, testing for land mines. News land mines blow up your job. I like to think O’Donnell, Rachel, etc are ready to help their colleague if he goes down. Perhaps they could set up an insurance fund for such reporters, Killed In News Duty (KIND).

      Chris struggled mightily (and perhaps dutifully) with Noura Erakat, but what mattered in the end was that she got a chance to tell a story untold in America. And did a good job. Andrea Mitchell also stood out, for focusing on the points in Kerry’s speech, even letting Kerry speak for himself in a forthright but fair interview. Good maps of the Israeli settlements were done for one MSNBC program (Road Map?); should be useful in Lawrence and Rachel’s eventual discussions.

      (Great photo of Hanan Ashrawi. She has shown immense character in reponse to the Catastrophe inflicted by the Israelis.)

    • Citizen
      December 30, 2016, 4:25 am

      @JWalters
      Good summary of Morning Joe. Anyone watching MSNBC, CNN, Fox News who did not already know the basic facts regarding those settlements and their standing under international law, not to mention regarding the occupation, could watch all day and night, flipping back and forth and taking advantage of repeats into the night, would end up 24 hours later with his/her full ignorance maintained. Too, they would not have heard the terms “Israel Lobby” or “AIPAC.” They may have heard the phrase “thirty-eight billion” once.

      They would have listened to many oily Israeli official guests being interviewed, speaking in Hebrew accented English.

  9. yonah fredman
    December 29, 2016, 8:48 pm

    Thinking about Obama’s future, if there would be an open senate seat from Illinois that would be a perfect fit. Give him a public voice and a reason for opening his mouth. The Democratic party needs rebuilding throughout the country. But even in the Senate there are not enough strong eloquent democratic voices. Ideally he would take two years off and then find a Senate or congressional seat.

    • RoHa
      December 29, 2016, 9:11 pm

      If there were an open senate seat from Illinois that would be a perfect fit.

      • DaBakr
        December 29, 2016, 11:51 pm

        obama has much bigger things on his horizon then the low down politics of illinois. you vastly underestimate the mans ego, haughtyness and his intelligence. more likely he’ll follow in clintons footsteps with a bit more emphasis on his ‘hope’ issue.
        The fact remains that while many on the far right and fringe left are certain of the longterm results of obama foreign policy but short of educated opinions-nobody can really tell this early wether it will be the disaster I believe it will be or that his penchant for long-term strategic thinking will pay off with partners such as iran, hezbollah, assad, putin, and so on. there is just as much uncertainty and insecurity involving what obama has already done then there is about what trump may do.

      • amigo
        December 30, 2016, 10:49 am

        “obama has much bigger things on his horizon then the low down politics of illinoi ” Duh baker

        He may well be invited to become a member of the “Elders” which would give a platform to really get under nietandyahu,s thin skin.

        “The fact remains that while many on the far right and fringe left ” Duh baker

        What about those on the right of far right—don,t you count.

    • Mooser
      December 29, 2016, 9:37 pm

      “. Ideally he would take two years off and then find a Senate or congressional seat.”

      Instead of hanging around and trying to obstruct your President? Why shouldn’t Obama, a tremendously popular and respected man, keep up a constant presence in politics?
      He would be a great focal point for opposition to Trump.

      • Atlantaiconoclast
        December 29, 2016, 11:42 pm

        Respected? Yeah right, He is a fool and a cruel hoax.

      • Mooser
        December 29, 2016, 11:53 pm

        “Respected? Yeah right, He is a fool and a cruel hoax.”

        “Knock, knock!”
        “Who’s there?”
        “Orange”
        “Orange who?”
        “Orange you glad you got a real respected Statesman as President, and not that “fool and a cruel hoax”, Obama?

      • echinococcus
        December 30, 2016, 1:00 am

        He would be a great focal point for opposition to Trump.

        How right you are, Mooser. Being continually opposed by an Abominobama would confer sainthood even on a buffoon like Trump.

      • Mooser
        December 30, 2016, 3:18 pm

        “Being continually opposed by an Abominobama would confer sainthood even on a buffoon like Trump.”

        Trump, in his last few days, is trying to shore up the ACA, and Social Security. Trump is ready to eliminate them both. And a host of other programs. (While promising Israel more support than the Dems, too!) And you think it’s Trump who will be beautified by Americans? Ho-Kay!

        (Of course, for the completely independent (no family) and independently international wealthy, these might be good things, as it lowers the tax rate of the 1%. That must be you guys.)

      • Mooser
        December 30, 2016, 5:13 pm

        “Trump, in his last few days, is trying to shore up the ACA,”

        Oh no! I meant “Obama”, of course. “Obama , in his last few days, is trying to shore up the ACA…” is what I meant to type.

      • echinococcus
        December 30, 2016, 7:22 pm

        Mooser,

        Of course that’s what you intended to type –in fact, if Trump had even an ounce of consistency in, ehm, let’s call it destroying all things useful to the working people, that’s what he would be doing, too. Anyway, when you come across anything that the Dims are not already doing that the Pukes announced they would do, gimme a ring.

      • Mooser
        December 31, 2016, 11:42 am

        “Anyway, when you come across anything that the Dims are not already doing that the Pukes announced they would do, gimme a ring.”

        Wow, this election has turned you inside-out.

      • Keith
        December 31, 2016, 4:17 pm

        ECHINOCOCCUS- “Anyway, when you come across anything that the Dims are not already doing that the Pukes announced they would do, gimme a ring.”

        Right you are, and it is somewhat enlightening to see these diehard Democrats denying the reality of the Democratic record. Mooser, for example, can’t deal with the reality that the Democrats competitive advantage in attracting oligarch funding is to more efficiently provide for the fat-cats. He keeps pissing and moaning about the demise of the ACA and anticipated attack on Social Security apparently unaware that the ACA was an industry developed proposal meant to divert the voters from the much preferred single payer alternative which Hillary buried. Furthermore, privatizing Social Security has been a bipartisan effort. Bill Clinton was all set to go on this but backtracked to shore up liberal support to fight impeachment. Below is a link discussing this.

        “Simpson-Bowles, for those of you who forgot, was part of a long line of Democratic moves over the past 8 years that would lead the way for privatizing the fund. I previously documented this issue for Counterpunch on September 30 and stand by my reporting despite claims from the pwogs that this is a conspiracy theory.

        Second of course is Robin Blackburn’s classic essay How Monica Lewinsky Saved Social Security, which retrieved from the Clinton archive primary documents from the beginning of the effort dating back to 1998. Following his destruction of Welfare, Bubba had decided to set his sights on retirement “entitlements” with the aid of his Robert Rubin-Larry Summers fiscal brain trust. Of course, when the intern with that magic blue dress became a national punchline, he was forced to pivot to the left to shore up his anti-privatization base as the GOP hounds began to circle for the kill. Nevertheless, the effort has been simmering on the back burner for the past two decades and remains tenable. Obama has put in place as custodian of the Social Security trust fund Charles P. Blahous III, who supported privatizing under George W. Bush, and manipulated the chained Consumer Price Index, used to generate yearly coast of living adjustments, so to sow enough dissent and cause people to think the system no longer works. The blade of the guillotine only needs be released at this point, all that is needed has been prepared.” (Andrew Stewart) http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/12/22/lest-we-forget-clinton-wanted-to-privatize-social-security/

      • Mooser
        December 31, 2016, 6:55 pm

        Okay, I get it, everything Trump and the Republicans want to do is Hilary and Obama’s fault.

      • Keith
        December 31, 2016, 8:59 pm

        MOOSER- “Okay, I get it, everything Trump and the Republicans want to do is Hilary and Obama’s fault.”

        Obviously you don’t get it. Hillary and Trump are part of the same system. The only significant difference is that Hillary is a proven warmonger who surrounded herself with neocons and was itching to confront Russia/Putin in an attempt to secure imperial hegemony prior to a restructuring of the imperial financial system. Trump will be a disaster, Hillary would have been a catastrophe. Being a de facto liberal (Democratic) imperialist is roughly comparable to being a liberal Zionist. Reality is what it is and no amount of clever or humorous phraseology will change that.

      • echinococcus
        January 1, 2017, 10:01 am

        Well, Mooser, I’m a little older (and way more decrepit) than you suppose me to be. There has been no difference in the little old Punch-n-Judy show in my ehm-haw-grrmppf-ty years. Let’s not malign this particular election.

      • echinococcus
        January 1, 2017, 10:12 am

        Keith,

        Thank you for the remark.
        Even though I think that we should pay attention to only discuss here aspects of the US system directly relevant to Palestine, I have to call your attention to your characterization of Abominobamacare/Romneycare:

        the ACA was an industry developed proposal meant to divert the voters from the much preferred single payer alternative which Hillary buried.

        I think it’s much more, and much more blatantly than that. True to its Connecticut prototype, I believe it’s a system fully intended to switch the entire parasitic cost of what’s called private insurance to the shoulders of mainly the working class and the destitute, in exchange for practically no prestations. So it is not really a diversionary maneuver but a frontal attack against the poor and the workers.

      • Mooser
        January 1, 2017, 1:58 pm

        “Well, Mooser, I’m a little older (and way more decrepit) than you suppose me to be”

        I always try to be complimentary. There is about you “echin”, a bloom of imperishable youth.
        Try never to lose it.

  10. kalithea
    December 29, 2016, 11:46 pm

    I’m going to hi-light the following so I don’t have to repeat and emphasize its importance further: Resistance activism by all, everyone, is going to be very necessary and important during the Trump Presidency.

    This is a pivotal moment in time and we cannot let it slip through our fingers or our freedoms, justice and values will be irreparably damaged. The struggle has become larger than the Palestinian issue; this is a fight for U. S. democracy, other democracies, justice, liberal values and our independence and sovereignty.

    First we must protest and resist all legislation equating anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. We must also condemn as a threat to the First Amendment proposed legislation to penalize BDS. If we allow these two issues to be legislated on; if we allow BDS activism to be shut down we will be muzzled and hog-tied and repression will win. This is a fight that must go viral the moment these threats rear their ugly heads. It will likely happen and it is a continuation of post 9/11 repression; Zionized Democracy if you can call it Democracy; I call it incipient fascism.

    The Democratic Party will support justice in the Middle East only if it takes on the forces of intolerance in its own ranks. That means the Israel lobby. You can’t defeat an enemy if you can’t name it.

    BINGO! But can anyone name the enemy? The Lobby is but an extension of the other. So can you name the enemy? Despite Obama finding a spine at the 11th hour; he didn’t name it; Kerry didn’t name it. No one’s naming it!

    It’s called ZIONISM Zionism is the enemy no one wants to name. Not even Zionists can name what they believe, because they know it sounds bad to discuss it mainstream.

    I wonder if the first time people uttered and discussed Nazism; it gave them that, uh – uneasy feeling?

    There is shame associated with the word, Zionism, with good reason. So many crimes have been committed on behalf of Zionism with total impunity. Zionism is ethnic cleansing; it is a crime against humanity, it is Apartheid and it is inherently anti-Democratic, subversive and fascist. It stands for bigotry and supremacy. That’s why you rarely hear it uttered on mainstream discussion. Yes, it’s being written about, but that’s different, it’s more, impersonal.

    I’ll bet if the Zionist mainstream narrative replaced Israel with Zionism, we would start to feel the rumblings of a coming seismic event. Ain’t gonna happen.

    Don’t count on the Democratic Party either to criticize Israel. Look who was just selected Senate Minority Leader, that Zionist shill, Chuck Schumer. They might as well have advertised his appointment with a banner reading: All criticism of Israel is henceforth-CENSORED.

    Schumer didn’t waste a minute criticizing Kerry’s speech. That’s loyalty for you. You can’t serve two masters, and Schumer serves Zionism first; so do most Zionists world-wide. Zionism first. Not to identify Zionism as the enemy is putting it first.

    And it’s not just the political system in Washington that is infected with Zionism; you mentioned important news outlets; but it’s so much wider and deeper. That’s why we can’t allow Trump to lock in Zionist power by having Congress issue laws that bind our ability to shame and expose how Zionism corrupts, subverts and diminishes not just U.S. democracy but other democracies as well.

    The coming years are going to be critical and the stakes are very high. Fascism is rearing its ugly head in the form of Zionism, with Trump already its standard-bearer. I know this sounds farfetched; but it’s not. At stake is global stability. Beyond the Palestinian struggle and the fact that Zionism is inherently fascist and has a dramatic negative impact on Democracy; Zionist power engages in geopolitical machinations to the detriment of millions and it will continue to do so with increasing risk to global stability, our freedom and democracy.

    Again, the Trump years will be pivotal in taking back our power; or surrendering it for good. Resist. Resist Zionism.

    • Citizen
      December 30, 2016, 9:23 am

      @ kalithea
      Well said, and you have the priorities lined up clearly. Unfortunately, it doesn’t look like our US main media for news these days, cable TV news/infotainment will allow your named targets any exposure.

  11. David Plimpton
    December 30, 2016, 8:26 am

    As Phil and his team intimate, for Israel to change course meaningfully and work out a solution which brings justice for Palestinians will take more than BDS , the UN Resolution, Kerry’s speech and even a more aware American public.

    Israel needs to be held responsible for its decades of actions and wrongs against (1) the Palestinians and (2) the true interests of most people in the U.S. This means changes in our leadership so that our leaders take away the carrot and administer a stick, namely withdrawal of uncritical and unrequited financial, media and policy support for Israel, like the $38 billion without asking anything in return, all to the detriment, impaired security and cost of the U.S. As Phil and his team make explicit, current policy is what our leaders, the mainstream media, our cultural institutions and our educational institutions have corruptly supported for many decades, because of the massive power and influence of the Israel Lobby, which has allied itself with the rest of the corporate oligarchic elite. They are all strong Israel firsters, which many people would label a serious conflict of interest, bordering on treason.

    It’s true more people are becoming aware of Israel’s brutal oppression, apartheid and war crimes against the Palestinians, all in violation of international law. But the powers that be or were, including Obama, Hillary and Trump are still mostly taking and advocating strong action against BDS, for example, including laws and policies which are clearly unconstitutional restraints of free speech. Experience has shown it’s not well-calculated to promote change in Israel.

    Bernie Sanders made an effort to support a more balanced approach to the Israel-Palestinian situation by appointing surrogates to advocate for policy changes with the DNC platform committee. But in the end, they were largely rebuffed and Bernie left them high and dry, deciding instead to support Hillary Clinton in spite of her atrocious record supporting Israel and war in the Middle East. The Democratic Party then grimly committed suicide in the lections, with Hillary pulling the switch.

    So we must continue to demand change from our leaders, the corporate, oligarchic elite and Israel. But given the outcome of the Presidential election (and it wouldn’t have mattered if it was Trump or Clinton), and the continuing power and influence of the Israel Lobby in Congress and the White House (Clinton, Bush, Obama and Trump), I don’t see much prospect of change from those quarters for the next four or eight years.

  12. iResistDe4iAm
    December 30, 2016, 8:37 am

    Why Obama waited 8 years to take on Netanyahu

    Obama didn’t wait 8 years to take on Netanyahu. On 23 December 2016, he was merely preoccupied thinking about his legacy, as all lame duck Presidents do in the last month before they’re put out to pasture.

    Obama was so deeply entranced in trying to identify any notable historic achievements of the last 8 years (that he could plausibly use to define his legacy), that he forgot to instruct his subordinates to veto any upcoming UN resolutions. Due to this unfortunate oversight, the US abstained on UNSC Resolution 2334.

    As his perpetual wars, failed states and humanitarian disasters in the Middle East precluded any possibility of a legacy related to peace, he resolved to create a new legacy in the last month of his term.

    Finally, on 29 December 2016, Obama launched his most audacious mission yet …he restarted the Cold War with Russia.

    President Obama will be the first lame duck President to go out with a Bang! …but he needs your help. Find out how you can help!

    /satire

  13. James Canning
    December 30, 2016, 1:54 pm

    Perhaps John Kerry, and Obama, see that a deal resolving Israel/Palestine will have to be imposed on the two countries, by the “international community”.

    • Mooser
      December 30, 2016, 3:26 pm

      “Perhaps John Kerry, and Obama, see that a deal resolving Israel/Palestine will have to be imposed on the two countries, by the “international community”.

      What about Israel’s part in the bargain. Can Israel guarantee that there will; be enough Jews willing to stay under the new conditions and within the borders to make it viable? Or will we have to supply “ringers” for Israelis?

      • Mooser
        December 30, 2016, 4:49 pm

        I am very concerned about any international agreement which denies Israel the right to self-reduction. That’s a burden which should not be imposed on Israel, the burden of a legislated state larger than can be maintained with and by its own resources.
        If Israelis do not like changed conditions in Palestine, they should be free to leave. And Israel should not be obligated to an area larger than it can manage by and with its own resources, as support for Zionism lessens. Wouldn’t be fair.

  14. Scott
    December 30, 2016, 2:40 pm

    I would add that Obama and much of the nat sec establishment were more worried about Israel pulling the US into a war with Iran, which would have been far more grave to American interests than continued Palestinian dispossession. Obama and Kerry fought Bibi on Iran directly, and won, but expended a lot of political capital. Their judgement was they couldn’t do both, at least in the same term. They might have been correct.

  15. gingershot
    December 30, 2016, 7:15 pm

    ‘The answer is simple: the Israel lobby was against any real action. Jewish Americans of my generation and older opposed any pressure on Israel. So there was no pressure (till now, and Trump)’

    ‘Time to Red Line Bibi,Trump and the REST of the Jewish Lobby/Israel Lobby/Neocons’

    Now is the time for maximum pressure and Red Lines on Bibi – and that pressure consists in hammering ‘Kahanism’ in the US and Israel – calling it out – dragging the Nightflower out into the sun – teaching America about it from the inside.

    courage everybody …

    Showing and explaining to people what it is – STOPPING encouraging it (many Jewish people, many others) if someone has been previously supportive.

    It’s time to question power and question Jewish power in the US and Israel – and put some RED LINES on it – one great place to start is to put a red line around Bibi and the Palestine Annexation Bill

    Bibi, Trump nor anyone else crosses the Red Line of passing the Palestine Annexation Bill into the face of UN 2334, even if changes to Israeli government because necessary, there are votes of no confidence for a semi-invalid Netanyahu

    The focus on the ‘Palestine Annexation Law’ is critical now – so far MK Oren, MK Bennett, PM Bibi, David Friedman, Trump and 100,000s of thousands of Messianics, Settlers, and other Kahanists have come out to dance in the open

    It reminds me of Zorba the Greek, the 3rd Time, the best one, the log that broke the camels back careening down the slope, the zip of metal on cable at dizzying momentum – yep the Palestine Annexation Law was one log too far

    It’s out of the hands of Jewish power except for those like Diskin/CIS at this point – ‘not opposing any pressure on Israel’ was the inch they needed, they made it their carte blanche and that just ended in delicto flagrante with UN 2334

    The rhythm is different than it being ‘8 yrs’ – lots has been happening too
    Obama has a basketball rhythm – theres a lot of unconscious teamwork – it’s very dynamic.

    We fastbroke em.

    ‘The bigger they are the harder they fall ‘said Aaron David Miller – that’s what it sounded like to me when he said it, the hubris was like jasmine. ‘Every mountain unclimable until it’s climbed, every ship unsinkable until it’s sunk’

    It is kind of a ‘S*ck on this Big Zion’ Moment, as Tom Friedman might have it. One Big Bag, we got them all, the Lobby and the Apartheid. We had to anyway, they made sur of it

    Progress toward the 1P1V1S might as well begin – now we’re going to really make progress

    I think the rumor of the Yair Lapid CIS/CNAS centrist Israeli Working Group would be a good solid bet to talk to. Diskin would be terrific – if it turns out there is an Israreli Party in a 1P1V1S Palestine Pie that would be a good thing

    There’s going to be 10 million Palestinians (5 million FOB and out of the refugee camps and coming into posession of their human rights) and 6 million Jews between the River and the Sea – those are 10 to 6 odds if you do the math – and why not everybody get to work making sure those 10 million Palestinians have full human rights and protections, immediately. No time like the present, the fierce urgency of now. StartUP those Repartations to Palestinians, ASAP – that kind of a start up nation, Germany did it..

    It’s a transformation into Sat Yuga, that’s what so beautiful

    The funniest thing was it was all tied up with free Paletinians at the same time

  16. hophmi
    December 31, 2016, 3:22 am

    Quoting Ali Abunimah in the NYTimes has been routine for years. It’s nothing new. You’re blowing smoke. World opinion is accruing on Israel’s side, not the other way around. Both the UK and Australia criticized the Kerry speech. People see this for what it is; a rant by an Administration with a record of abject failure to stop the genocide in Syria.

    • John O
      December 31, 2016, 9:12 am

      @hophmi

      Our Prime Minister, Theresa May, seems to be unaware that the UK voted for the UN resolution last week (but then she has shown as PM that she is no more competent than she was as Home Secretary). She described Israel as an ally, forgetting that in 2010 this so-called ally cloned the passports of several British citizens for use by a Mossad death-squad. Mossad’s station chief in London was kicked out of the country in short order.

      And Israel, which has a land border with Syria, has done what exactly to help the good people of that unfortunate country?

      • hophmi
        December 31, 2016, 11:49 am

        Ask that same question of ANY ARAB STATE IN THE REGION. #blameIsraelforebolanext

      • John O
        December 31, 2016, 2:19 pm

        @hophmi

        I was asking you what Israel has done.

      • eljay
        December 31, 2016, 3:42 pm

        ||John O: @hophmi

        I was asking you what Israel has done. ||

        And he provided the typical Zionist reply: Israel is a “moral beacon”, a “Western-style democracy” and a “light unto the nations”…but it’s not as bad as Saudi Arabia, Mali and African “hell-holes”.

      • talknic
        December 31, 2016, 7:03 pm

        @ hophmi December 31, 2016, 11:49 am

        “Ask that same question of ANY ARAB STATE IN THE REGION

        They’ve taken in millions of refugees. Israel has taken in ZERO refugees

        . #blameIsraelforebolanext”

        If you say so hophmi

        Next Zioturd?

    • Maghlawatan
      December 31, 2016, 9:17 am

      Hoppy
      Israel lies about everything. The world expects a peace deal. Zionism has all the PR cachet of dogshit since 2014.
      Netanyahu is universally despised as a thug.

    • amigo
      December 31, 2016, 9:46 am

      “World opinion is accruing on Israel’s side, not the other way around. ” hopknee

      Let,s see , 14 out of 15 members of the security council just gave Israel the thumbs down and your biggest bestest buddy abstained and you call that , world opinion accruing on Israel,s side.I agree , world opinion is accruing but it is anything but on Israel,s side. Your chimney stack is damaging the ozone layer .

      ” Both the UK and Australia criticized the Kerry speech ” hopknee.

      The UK voted in favour of 2334 as would have Australia had they been on the SC.

      I have read that screed about , “UK Government Spokesperson” , (unidentified) condemns Kerry,s speech.Even if the friend of the , British Friends of Israel ” had condemned Kerry,s speech , it would only be to appease the zionist Israel,s firsters in the UK to ensure the lolly keeps flowing into her coiffures.

      You are the most gullible individual I have ever come across. Do Zionists have the franchise on gullibility.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 31, 2016, 10:23 am

        amigo, someone would have to live in a bubble to believe that. there will always be politicians licking israeli a**, to pretend this represents “world opinion” is a joke.

        speaking of licking A**, aipac is up to their usual demands. remember when they assembled 100’s of congresspeople demanding they sign a letter to obama not to mess w/the US veto at the UN a month or 2 back (or else their coffers wouldn’t get filled) well they are at it again. they’ve now composed another letter or resolution or something condemning kerry’s speech or the UN abstention or something. sorry, too lazy to find the article. anyway, it’s worthless of course because congress doesn’t get to decide what obama does at the UN and there’s no taking back that vote (or non vote as the case may be). it’s just another exercise in lobby loyalty. someday all that a** licking is going to come back and bite those congresscritters, because voters are getting sick of this shit.

      • hophmi
        December 31, 2016, 11:55 am

        It’s funny that an Assad/Hezb’allah defender would accuse others of licking a**. #glasshouses

      • Annie Robbins
        December 31, 2016, 1:50 pm

        bwahhhh. this one’s for you hops. happy new year: https://www.democracynow.org/2016/12/28/part_2_cia_interrogator_reveals_saddam

        CIA Interrogator Reveals Saddam Hussein Predicted Rise of ISIS & U.S. Failure in Iraq

        When people ask me, you know, “Was it worth taking him out of power?” I say, “You know, look around you. Show me something that is positive that happened.” Iraq, right now, is a country that has 2 million displaced people. Parts of its territory are held by ISIS. You have a dysfunctional government that is probably more corrupt than Saddam’s government was. And if ask the average Iraqi—Sunni, Shia or Kurd—you know, “Were things better back then? Were services better? Did the government do more for you?” I think they would say yes. I can’t find one thing. And if you said, “Well, maybe, what about the Kurds? They’re almost independent now,” that was happening already. I can’t find one thing positive that came out of his removal from power.

        given the alternative hops, i’d opt to be ruled by assad rather than the headchoppers. but it’s not up to me what syrians want. i think their preferred choice, under the circumstances, makes sense. the foreign jihad extremists the US/SA/qatar (and you presumably) support? not so much.

      • amigo
        December 31, 2016, 12:18 pm

        Annie , belated happy twismas and a great new year.May it be peppered with more UNSCR,s and a plethora of Sanctions against the worlds newest , (oldest ) regognised pariah entity.

        In Hopknees mind , Benjamini Nietnadyahoo has already defeated BDS .Well he claimed he did so that,s good enough for our resident smoke stack. I hear the donald is promising to have the whole universe on Israel,s side in his first 100 days (daze–more likely).

        Thanks for all your hard work and commitment to those who are oppressed and under the heel of heartless money hungry tyrants.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 31, 2016, 1:32 pm

        happy new year amigo! and thank you for your hard work and continued activism! it’s always an honor for me being any part of mondoweiss and you’re part of this place for me — my pleasure.

      • chinese box
        December 31, 2016, 2:16 pm

        Such bizarre statements. It makes you wonder if Hophmi himself even believes the stuff he comes up with.

      • RoHa
        December 31, 2016, 8:27 pm

        ‘And if you said, “Well, maybe, what about the Kurds? They’re almost independent now,” ‘

        And has that made anything better for Joe Kurd or anyone else?

    • Atlantaiconoclast
      December 31, 2016, 10:18 am

      Israel is one of the parties who encouraged the slaughter in Syria by pushing for regime change. Hophmi, do you think Netanyahu would hesitate to cause massive collateral damage if HIS regime were under siege by not just bottle rockets, but by massively armed Islamic insurgents from all over the world? Give us a break. You have no moral high ground on Syria. NONE.

      • hophmi
        December 31, 2016, 11:47 am

        Lol. So calling for the fall of a brutal dictatorship is encouraging slaughter? Lol. How degraded the left is today. How morally bankrupt. You’d stand up for a fascist before you’d stand up for human rights.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 31, 2016, 1:57 pm

        oh please, israel did more that “call for the fall” and you know it. even michael oren said he’d prefer AQ in charge of syria. don’t pan off support for the head choppers as standing up for “human rights”.

      • John O
        December 31, 2016, 2:26 pm

        @hophmi

        Calling for the fall of anything is easy. Israel has a powerful military that could have invaded Syria (let’s face it, they’ve had lots of practice) to save the people being slaughtered. If that was considered too risky – the IDF having got its ass whupped last time it took on Hezbollah – opening its borders to refugees would have been useful. But its borders remained shut, and the IDF contented itself with killing Palestinians at checkpoints and elsewhere.

      • Annie Robbins
        December 31, 2016, 2:41 pm

        israel occasionally opened the golan border to help nusra.

      • amigo
        December 31, 2016, 3:00 pm

        Hopknee , better go talk to Nuttyahu ???.

        The day before res 2334 was passed by 14 to 0 the UN was voting on another plan to look into possible war crimes being committed in Syria.netandyahu refused to send anyone.The very next day he berated the UN for wasting it,s time on the P/I issue when so many Syrians are being slaughtered in Syria.

        See anything wrong with that hopppy boy.

      • Maghlawatan
        December 31, 2016, 3:40 pm

        Hoppy on human rights. FFS.

      • eljay
        January 1, 2017, 9:31 am

        || hophmi: Lol. So calling for the fall of a brutal dictatorship is encouraging slaughter? Lol. … ||

        Lol. Why not? Lol. According to you Zionists, calling for an end to a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” regime and its colonialist practices is encouraging slaughter. Lol. Calling for the rightful return of refugees to their homes and lands is encouraging slaughter. Lol.

        || … How degraded the left is today. How morally bankrupt. You’d stand up for a fascist before you’d stand up for human rights. ||

        Lol. Says the Zionist hypocrite who stands up for Jewish supremacism in/and a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” in as much as possible of Palestine before he stands up for justice, accountability and equality. Lol.

      • echinococcus
        January 1, 2017, 12:18 pm

        Watan,

        Hoppy was preceded onto human rights territory by gravitas-laden worthies, such as the Yahoo, the Rose of Sharon, Rabin, Shamir, Stern, Goebbels, Goering, the Innominate, Talat Pasha, Genghis Khan, Attila, etc.

        Not his fault, poor thing.

    • talknic
      December 31, 2016, 6:21 pm

      @ hophmi December 31, 2016, 3:22 am

      ” World opinion is accruing on Israel’s side, not the other way around.”

      Strange UNSC has 15 members. The statistics show us 14 for and 0 against (abstaining is not a vote)

      “Both the UK and Australia criticized the Kerry speech”

      = only 2 However, the the UK voted FOR the resolution

      You seem intent on providing evidence that Zionists and those who support them are quite insane

    • amigo
      January 1, 2017, 11:00 am

      “World opinion is accruing on Israel’s side, not the other way around. ” hopknee

      Ahem , the hell you say!!!.

      “Yet, Obama is not Israel’s biggest problem. Surprisingly, Israel’s worst, and only true problem is Israel itself. The unanimous decision at the UNSC indicates that the entire world, almost every single one of the 193 member states of the UN, has a negative view of Israel. No other country, not even Iran, Iraq, Syria, Saudi Arabia, or any other despot-governed country has managed such a “remarkable feat”—to unite the entire world against it. Had the vote on the establishment of the Jewish state been made today, Israel would never have come into existence.”
      read more: http://www.haaretz.com/haaretz-labels/laitman/1.761647

  17. Brewer
    December 31, 2016, 5:23 am

    Best ever Phil. A real pearler.

  18. echinococcus
    December 31, 2016, 11:49 am

    Now the liberals and the left are in the same camp.

    T
    In one segment, Chris Hayes has Noura Erakat talking about apartheid and liberal California Rep. Brad Sherman saying that the Palestinian right of return means that Palestinians want to expel all Jews from the Middle East. These views are irreconcilable. Sherman is expressing bigotry. The Democratic Party will support justice in the Middle East only if it takes on the forces of intolerance in its own ranks. That means the Israel lobby. You can’t defeat an enemy if you can’t name it. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/12/obama-waited-netanyahu/#comment-865138<blockquote

  19. kalithea
    December 31, 2016, 3:34 pm

    The Campaign to throw Theresa May out of office in the U.K. needs to start happening now.:

    http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/30/507592934/britains-leader-teresa-may-reportedly-condemns-john-kerrys-remarks-on-israel

  20. falcon170170
    December 31, 2016, 5:04 pm

    Here’s something else 90% of Americans don’t know, the ‘settlements’ are NOT illegal.

    • eljay
      December 31, 2016, 5:39 pm

      || falcon170170: Here’s something else 90% of Americans don’t know, the ‘settlements’ are NOT illegal. ||

      Yup, ’cause nothing says “NOT illegal” like stealing, occupying and colonizing territory outside of your self-proclaimed and/or internationally-recognized borders. No wonder 90% of Americans don’t know that.

    • talknic
      December 31, 2016, 6:28 pm

      @ falcon170170 December 31, 2016, 5:04 pm

      “Here’s something else 90% of Americans don’t know, the ‘settlements’ are NOT illegal”

      Care to explain how they’re not illegal …. thx … I’ll wait …

      • Mooser
        December 31, 2016, 8:22 pm

        “Care to explain how they’re not illegal”

        “Talknic” haven’t we been through this settlements-are-really-legal thing before? If I remember aright (and I don’t care to Google) some settlement leader’s lawyer or something thought he had a case. All he had was a bottle of pilpuls.

    • Mooser
      December 31, 2016, 6:54 pm

      “Here’s something else 90% of Americans don’t know, the ‘settlements’ are NOT illegal.”

      “Not illegal”? Let me guess, there’s a UN resolution or treaty or convention which says the occupation is hunky-dory, right? And the settlements are ‘legal’.

      I guess everybody has the wrong idea about the legal illegal settlements. You should really explain to them why they are wrong, “falcon”.

    • Brewer
      January 1, 2017, 1:49 am

      Here’s something 90% of Americans don’t know

      Geneva Convention IV

      ARTICLE 49
      Individual or mass forcible transfers, as well as deportations of protected persons from occupied territory to the territory of the Occupying Power or to that of any other country, occupied or not, are prohibited, regardless of their motive.
      Nevertheless, the Occupying Power may undertake total or partial evacuation of a given area if the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand. Such evacuations may not involve the displacement of protected persons outside the bounds of the occupied territory except when for material reasons it is impossible to avoid such displacement. Persons thus evacuated shall be transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area in question have ceased.
      The Occupying Power undertaking such transfers or evacuations shall ensure, to the greatest practicable extent, that proper accommodation is provided to receive the protected persons, that the removals are effected in satisfactory conditions of hygiene, health, safety and nutrition, and that members of the same family are not separated.
      The Protecting Power shall be informed of any transfers and evacuations as soon as they have taken place.
      The Occupying Power shall not detain protected persons in an area particularly exposed to the dangers of war unless the security of the population or imperative military reasons so demand.
      The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies.

      • mcohen.
        January 2, 2017, 6:11 am

        hey brewer consider this.

        This resolution is built upon the proposition that the settlements are illegal by international law. But what if they aren’t? The UN holds that the lands in question are subject to the Fourth Geneva Convention, which applies whenever a High Contracting Party (HCP) i.e., a country which signed the convention, belligerently occupies the land of another HCP. But in this case the lands in question were not the land of a HCP but were unallocated land under the Palestine Mandate.

      • talknic
        January 2, 2017, 10:06 am

        mcohen. January 2, 2017, 6:11 am

        The UN holds that the lands in question are subject to the Fourth Geneva Convention, which applies whenever a High Contracting Party (HCP) i.e., a country which signed the convention, belligerently occupies the land of another HCP. But in this case the lands in question were not the land of a HCP but were unallocated land under the Palestine Mandate”

        Ziopoop.

        The West Bank as it is now officially named, was legally annexed at the request of representatives of the majority of the legitimate citizens of the territory. Jordan’s annexation of the territory was as a trustee only by demand of the other Arab states (Session: 12-II Date: May 1950) in keeping with the UN Charter Chapt XI

        In ’67 the West Bank was a part of Jordan, who was by then a UN Member State and a High Contracting Party as a signatory to GC IV

        BTW the Mandate expired May 14th 1948 according to the Israeli declaration of statehood

        “Accordingly we, members of the People’s Council, representatives of the Jewish Community of Eretz-Israel and of the Zionist Movement, are here assembled on the day of the termination of the British Mandate

        Go peddle your poop somewhere else

      • Mooser
        January 2, 2017, 12:51 pm

        “hey brewer consider this.”

        Check your shoes, “mcohen”. I hope you aren’t wearing Vibram soles.

      • Talkback
        January 2, 2017, 3:56 pm

        mccohen: “The UN holds that the lands in question are subject to the Fourth Geneva Convention, which applies whenever a High Contracting Party (HCP) i.e., a country which signed the convention, belligerently occupies the land of another HCP.”

        Nope. That’s just one Israel’s perverted representations of international law.

        The V. Geneva Convention clearly states in article 2, paragraph 1:
        “… the present Convention shall apply to all cases of declared war or of any other armed conflict which may arise between two or more of the High Contracting Parties, even if the state of war is not recognized by one of them.”

        The two HCPs were Israel and Jordan, therefore the Convention is applicable.

        But Israel 1.) deliberately focuses on article 2, paragraph 2 and 2.) deliberately twists the word “also” into “only” and 3.) perverts its whole meaning:

        “The Convention shall ALSO apply to all cases of partial or total occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party, EVEN if the said occupation meets with no armed resistance.”

        So this is an addition, not a restriction.

        The International Court of Justice explained:
        “The object of the second paragraph of Article 2, which refers to “occupation of the territory of a High Contracting Party”, is not to restrict the scope of application of the Convention, as defined by the first paragraph, by excluding therefrom territories not falling under the sovereignty of one of the contracting parties, but simply to making it clear that, EVEN if occupation effected during the conflict met no armed resistance, the Convention is still applicable.”

        So whether the Westbank is part of a territory of a High Contracting party or not doesn’t even matter. But let me remind you that the State of Palestine is a High Contracting Party of the Geneva Conventions since April 2014 and contrary to Israel – ratified its additional protocols I and II, too.

    • Talkback
      January 1, 2017, 7:48 am

      falcon170170: “Here’s something else 90% of Americans don’t know, the ‘settlements’ are NOT illegal.”

      Here’s something that 90% of Hasbara trolls don’t know, everybody knows they are lying and having a laugh at them.

      So whose ‘legal expertise’ is it going to be this time that is able to outweigh the advisory opinion of International Court of Justice, the UN Security Council, the UN General Assembly, every UN member except Israel, every human rights organisation and when it comes to the fact that the Westbank is under belligerent occupation even the Supreme Court of Israel?

      Is it the old “British Mandate preamble – UN article 80” sketch? Or the “Missing Reversioner” routine? Anything that isn’t a bizarre misinterpretation of international law in bad faith and shared by more than one expert of international right who isn’t a Jewish Zionist or on Israel’s payroll (like for example Wolf Heintschel von Heinegg in Israel’s infamous Turkel Commission)?

      Please falcon170170, make our day.

      • Mooser
        January 1, 2017, 1:49 pm

        “Is it the old “British Mandate preamble – UN article 80” sketch”

        “UN article 80”? And it counts! Be a till, my heart!
        No, that isn’t it.
        “Be a still, my heart!”
        No that was last night.

        Anyway, it seems as if the little bird has flown.

  21. YoniFalic
    January 2, 2017, 9:35 am

    Possibly because I am a one issue sort of guy (“Israel must be consigned to the garbage dump of history”), I advise that the best course for pro-Palestinian activists is alliance with the anti-Israel alt-right, which despises Israel and which realizes that Israel is a vehicle for hyperwealthy Zio American plutocrats to pickpocket ordinary Americans (between $25-35 trillion so far).

    Anti-Israel alt-right and pro-Pali progressives can disagree on everything else, but on this issue they can bring the Trump administration to heel.

  22. German Lefty
    January 3, 2017, 7:43 am

    Someone has probably mentioned it already but I just read that the Simon Wiesenthal Center declared the USA the biggest anti-Semite of 2016 for not vetoing the UN resolution against the settlements.
    http://www.wiesenthal.com/atf/cf/%7B54d385e6-f1b9-4e9f-8e94-890c3e6dd277%7D/TT_2016REPORT.PDF

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