Israel threatens to toss Antony Loewenstein after he asked Lapid question about apartheid

Israel/Palestine
on 81 Comments

The Jerusalem Post reports that the Israeli government is thinking of ending Antony Loewenstein’s press credentials, forcing him to leave Jerusalem, because he asked a tough question of a government official.

Loewenstein, the Jerusalem-based author most recently of the book Disaster Capitalism, has gotten wide support from journalists in the hours since the story broke, including Max Blumenthal and Mairav Zonszein and others on Loewenstein’s twitter feed.

Here’s the story.

On December 12, Loewenstein attended an appearance of Yair Lapid, the leader of the Yesh Atid (There is a Future) party and a former finance minister, at the Foreign Press Association in Jerusalem’s King David Hotel.

Loewenstein asked him: 

You talked before about the idea that since Oslo, Israel has done little or nothing wrong but the truth is that 2017 is the 50th anniversary of the occupation, there are now 600,00 to 800,000 settlers, all of whom are regarded by international law as illegal. Is there not a deluded idea here that many Israeli politicians, including yourself, continue to believe that one can talk to the world about democracy, freedom and human rights while denying those things to millions of Palestinians and will there not come a time soon where you and other politicians will be treated like South African politicians during Apartheid?

Yair Lapid says Jews can live nowhere else but Israel

Yair Lapid says Jews can live nowhere else but Israel

Lapid gave an answer, video of which he posted on his Facebook page.

“We live in a post-truth postfacts era… You just gave us a perfect example. These are presumptions, not facts. It’s a declared policy of Israel that we need to go to a two-state solution and the ones who refused it were the Palestinians. The ones who call Jews pigs and monkeys in their school books are the Palestinians. And the problem is that the Palestinians are encouraged by the Guardian and others saying we don’t need to do anything in order to work for our future because the international community will call Israel an apartheid country. Israel is not an apartheid country, Israel is a law-abiding democracy. Unlike by the way the Palestinians, Israel is make sure that human rights are protected in this area. Why don’t you go to the Palestinian Authority or to Gaza and ask them about women rights and gay rights and Christian rights and why is it that you can’t be safe there if you don’t follow the Islamic sharia?

Loewenstein posted an account on his site, “Senior politician doesn’t like question about occupation, spits dummy.” Loewenstein commented: 

It was a depressing and dishonest answer. Furthermore, with a few notable exceptions, the vast majority of journalists in attendance were deferential to Lapid and asked him bland questions. Lapid is a man who proudly talks about building a wall around all Palestinians. Like in so many countries, most reporters rarely challenge establishment power; they’re afraid of losing access…

I’ve been writing about Israel and Palestine since 2003, and visiting since 2005 (I now live in Jerusalem), and all that’s worsened is the extremism and vitriol of Israel supporters.

That day the Jerusalem Post then covered the question and answer. “Lapid: ‘Guardian’ delays Mideast conflict solution.”

Then a pro-Israel site began publicizing the fact that Loewenstein has supported Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions against Israel, or BDS, and spoke in favor of it at a rally in Sydney in 2014: “BDS is growing and I’m proud to be part of a global movement that’s led by the Palestinians most directly affected.”

Today the Jerusalem Post has followed up with a story saying that the Israeli government is considering not renewing Loewenstein’s press card, so that he would have to leave the country in the spring.

A journalist who has allegedly engaged in activity supportive of the Boycott, Divestment, Sanctions movement may not be able to remain in Israel, the Government Press Office told The Jerusalem Post exclusively on Sunday.

GPO director Nitzan Chen said he was leaning against renewing the press card of Antony Loewenstein, a Jerusalem- based freelance reporter who writes for The Guardian and other publications. If the card is not renewed when it expires in March, the Interior Ministry will not allow him to remain in Israel.

“We are leaning toward recommending that his work permit not be renewed due to suspected BDS activity,” Chen said. “We are checking the incident because unfortunately, the journalist did not give enough information to our staff. We will learn to check better so there won’t be such incidents in the future.”

The Post did say eight paragraphs down:

Loewenstein noticeably directed what was seen as a hostile question toward Yesh Atid leader Yair Lapid at an FPA event last Monday.

In his post today, titled Free Speech in the Jewish State, Loewenstein offers some corrections and comments:

  • For over a decade, I’ve been an independent journalist and best-selling author who has written for major media outlets from across the world, including the Guardian and New York Times, and I’ve worked and lived as an investigative reporter in some of the toughest places in the world including Afghanistan, South Sudan and Honduras. I’m currently based in Jerusalem as an accredited, freelance journalist – my freelance credentials were accepted by the Israeli Press Office this year as I’m not formally associated with any media group – and have published my work this year in many publications including Newsweek Middle East, the Guardian, The Nation and The National.
  • Truly free nations respect and encourage free speech. They welcome it;
  • Real democracies value diversity of opinion.

Loewenstein is a dear friend, so we can’t even pretend to be objective, but this is disheartening, and we’ll keep you posted.

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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81 Responses

  1. Rusty Pipes
    December 19, 2016, 3:24 pm

    If this is how the Israeli government reacts to the word “Apartheid,” I can’t wait to see how they respond to a reporter who mentions “Ethnic Cleansing.”

  2. eljay
    December 19, 2016, 3:30 pm

    Direct question: How can you say you’ve done nothing wrong when you continue to kidnap women, chain them in your basement and rape them?

    Non-answer: This is post-truth and post-facts. These women try to kill me, they spit at me, they call me names. I am not a hater of women – I am a law-abiding citizen. Go visit the serial killer and talk to him and see how safe you feel there.

    The “Jewish State”: A “moral beacon” and “light unto the nations” state that’s not quite as bad as Saudi Arabia, Mali and African “hell-holes”.

    • Elisabeth
      December 20, 2016, 4:20 am

      I am getting a bit sick of these repeated women-chained-and-raped-in the-basement comparisons. Is this a memethat is widespread in the US or something? I really do not like it.

      • Elisabeth
        December 20, 2016, 7:09 am

        And this is stuff taken from bad thrillers. Cliche’s and in bad taste. Real rape usually does not involve psychopaths, basements and chains, just average guys not knowing norms.
        Of course I will be shouted down as I am every time I comment on the mysoginy of the male clique here.

      • eljay
        December 20, 2016, 8:21 am

        || Elisabeth: I am getting a bit sick of these repeated women-chained-and-raped-in the-basement comparisons. … ||

        Just imagine how sick the victims of the repeated (war) crimes of Zionism and the “Jewish State” project must be.

        I’ll stop making the comparisons when:
        – the “Jewish State” stops committing the (war) crimes; or
        – the powers that be at MW tell me to stop.

      • eljay
        December 20, 2016, 8:41 am
      • amigo
        December 20, 2016, 12:12 pm

        “I am getting a bit sick of these repeated women-chained-and-raped-in the-basement comparisons. Is this a memethat is widespread in the US or something? I really do not like it. ” Elisabeth

        Perhaps you could help Eljay come up with a more apt , (in your opinion) analogy .In the absence of that , then perhaps you should not venture into the basement.

        I think eljay,s analogy is a bit on the conservative side.Israel,s behavior is quite without equal but perhaps comparing it to a slaver constantly beating and starving his slave while raping the slaves wife albeit not in a basement would be more apt..Yup , good ole Israel , willing to do almost anything –correction , anything right out in the open and that ungrateful slave shows no appreciation for the special attention he and his family given.

      • Elisabeth
        December 20, 2016, 12:23 pm

        Oh wow eljay, that is sooooo representative of the average rape! I bow to your superior knowledge! (First hand?) Just tell your daughters to beware of men with cellars and chains and they will be all right.
        (Lovely site, Mondoweiss.)

      • eljay
        December 20, 2016, 12:59 pm

        || Elisabeth: Oh wow eljay, that is sooooo representative of the average rape! … ||

        How utterly insensitive of you to belittle “non-average” rapes.

      • amigo
        December 20, 2016, 2:09 pm

        “I am getting a bit sick of these repeated women-chained-and-raped-in the-basement comparisons.” Elisabeth..

        I agree Elisabeth –let,s drop the analogies and discuss Israel,s decades of atrocities directly.

        Where would you care to start.How about the Nakba or Deir Yassin or perhaps the destruction of 400 Palestinian villages or the murder of 4 boys playing football on a beach in Gaza or the spaying of skunkjuice on Palestinian homes or the burning of a Palestinian home and the death of three of it,s inhabitants or the burning to death of a 16 year old Palestinian kid by pouring petrol down his throat and setting him on fire or the murder of Rachel Corrie by a big brave Idffer with his D9 bulldozer , etc , etc.

        Be honest Elisabeth . it is not eljay,s analogies that bother you, it is any opposition to Israel,s actions , no matter how it is presented , that irks you. Is that not so Elisabeth.if Eljay used a different analogy for each of his posts , you would still be complaining.

        BTW , if you think so little of MW , why contribute to it,s continued existence by increasing it,s “Hits”.

      • Sibiriak
        December 20, 2016, 11:31 pm

        amigo : –let,s drop the analogies and discuss Israel,s decades of atrocities directly.
        ————–

        I think analogies/metaphors and concrete facts need to work together synergistically.

        For example, Iris Chang’s book “The Rape of Nanking

        The Rape of Nanking: The Forgotten Holocaust of World War II is a bestselling 1997 non-fiction book written by Iris Chang about the 1937–1938 Nanking Massacre, the massacre and atrocities committed by the Imperial Japanese”Army after it captured Nanjing, then capital of China, during the Second Sino-Japanese War.

        The real power of the book comes not from the “rape” metaphor, but from the wealth of historical details that make the metaphor reasonable. The “rape” metaphor then works as a concentrated, memorable, value-charged, and yes, emotional , symbol of the events.

        [Of course, Chang’s historical arguments are not immune to criticism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_Nanking_(book)#Criticism%5D

        As far as eljay is concerned, I have no problem with his “rape” analogy, but I do think his purposes would be even better served if he included more concrete facts of Israeli misdeeds to work in synergy with it.

  3. amigo
    December 19, 2016, 4:03 pm

    The Lapid reply is conspicuous by it,s lack of presence in the J,Post piece.

    I guess it did not pass muster at the MCD , (Mossad Censorship Dept) .

  4. catalan
    December 19, 2016, 4:57 pm

    Does anyone else find eljay’s incessant allusions to women, chains, and rape to be disrespectul and not belonging to this discussion? Whatever one may think about the occupation, surely the individual crime of rape should not be trivialized in this fashion. After all, there are Palestinian women who get raped, Israeli women who get raped and it often has to do with hormones and culture and other things.
    If it is true that people talk about that most close to their heart, I believe that this locutions of eljay are possibly indicative of something sinister.

    • eljay
      December 19, 2016, 5:42 pm

      || catalan: … Whatever one may think about the occupation, surely the individual crime of rape should not be trivialized in this fashion. … ||

      There’s nothing remotely trivial about the decades-long and on-going campaign of aggression, oppression, theft, colonization, destruction, torture and murder being committed intentionally, unapologetically and with impunity by Zionists and their religion-supremacist “Jewish State” project.

      If anything, the comparison to one rapist’s actions trivializes the massive scope and impact of the evils of Zionism. And for that I apologize to Zionism’s victims both past and present.

      • oldgeezer
        December 19, 2016, 6:28 pm

        @eljay

        Well said.

        Catalan does have a point about it being indicative of something sinister. The actions of the GoI for the past 70 years have been extremely sinister. There are many thousands of dead bodies and millions of refugees to prove it. A very sinister rogue state. Support by sinister zionists around the world.

      • ritzl
        December 19, 2016, 9:34 pm

        Totally agree oldgeezer. Especially the “If anything…” paragraph.

    • ritzl
      December 19, 2016, 5:47 pm

      You think eljay is trivializing rape?

      God you people are so utterly clueless. If it doesn’t happen to you it isn’t real. Zero-empathy is a hell of a way to go through life. I think there’s a word for it even.

      • catalan
        December 19, 2016, 6:39 pm

        Ritzl,
        If someone in Palestine is waiting at a checkpoint, that stinks. Nonetheless, it does not compare with being forcefully penetrated against your will. Now, I get it, you are a guy, but surely you can imagine how it would feel.
        Why don’t we call things what they are? Lack of certain rights does not equal being chained and tortured.
        And I don’t know who we people are.

      • Mooser
        December 19, 2016, 7:11 pm

        “Nonetheless, it does not compare with being forcefully penetrated against your will.”

        Yeah, it isn’t like the Israelis actually kill anybody.

      • eljay
        December 19, 2016, 8:43 pm

        || catalan: … If someone in Palestine is waiting at a checkpoint, that stinks. … ||

        With just one sentence, you managed to trivialize 70 years and counting of Zionist and “Jewish State” (war) crimes and proportionately to reduce rape to nothing more than fuzzy handcuffs and a gentle spanking.

        Impressive.

        I’m curious to see just how low you can go.

      • ritzl
        December 19, 2016, 9:55 pm

        catalan, the fact that you all have to have this continuously explained to you says it all.

        eljay uses his terms for a reason. You simply do NOT get that – to use your terms – occupation IS penetration. 50+ years of occupation is equivalent to repeated penetration. As eljay and oldgeezer said above, it’s worse than that as the occupation is not just the inconvenience of being delayed for a half hour longer at a checkpoint every now and then (as you seem to believe). It’s death and destruction on a daily basis.

        “If anything,” eljay understates the analogy in deference to your incredibly selective [pseudo-] sensitivities (aka zero-empathy).

        Go live in Bil’in – as a Palestinian in Palestine (in eljay’s metaphorical basement) – for a week. My guess is you wouldn’t make it a day (let alone 50+ years), even if you did have the [laudable] guts to give it a try to spark a small bit of the empathy you seem to lack.

        Nobody that I’ve ever read about does that and comes back unchanged. Nobody.

      • oldgeezer
        December 19, 2016, 10:36 pm

        @catalan

        Comparing the situation in Palestinian to going through a checkpoint is absurd. I don’t believe you are that ignorant. Rather you lack the humanity to recognize the crimes being perpetrated upon them. Up to and including murder and torture.

      • Sibiriak
        December 20, 2016, 12:54 am

        catalan writes: If someone in Palestine is waiting at a checkpoint, that stinks.

        ————

        The apartheid occupation regime– just few inconvenient checkpoints?

        Don’t feed the TROLL.

      • Citizen
        December 20, 2016, 1:03 am

        @ catalan
        “And I don’t know who we people are.”

        You can start your voyage of learning here: Israel’s soldiers speak out about brutality of Palestinian occupation https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/08/israel-soldiers-speak-out-brutality-palestine-occupation?CMP=share_btn_tw

      • ritzl
        December 20, 2016, 4:44 am

        Obtw, “you people” are people who defend/rationalize their ability to lounge around in swimming pools while violently forcing people a hundred meters away to drink less than the WHO minimum of dirty water for which they charge 400% of what it costs themselves.

        Just for example.

        You know, the “occupation, ethnic cleansing, and genocidal behavior isn’t really so bad/what are they so upset about anyway?/happy slave” crowd. One of my shareholders once called it the “Plantation Mentality.” Perfect description.

      • Maghlawatan
        December 20, 2016, 5:42 am

        Catalan,

        Rape is about power and humiliation. So is Zionism. I think the analogy is fair.
        Prisoners in Israel are threatened with tape and the rape of female family members. This is the Zionist interpretation of the Bible line about a land of milk and honey.

      • MHughes976
        December 20, 2016, 12:19 pm

        The argument that ‘Your claim in defence of X would, if valid, serve to defend Y, when in fact Y is indefensible’ certainly does not trivialise Y. It clearly works on the premise that Y is very bad, the reverse of trivialisation. It does not inflate X, i.e. necessarily mean that X is terrible – only that X cannot be defended in the way mentioned, in this instance by reference to post-truth presumptions.
        I agree that there can come a point where repeated specific reference to Y beyond the norm might suggest disturbingly that Y is somehow fascinating: any repetition can have that effect. But the use of rape as image of conquest is surely not that abnormal, so the point where it becomes disturbing is not quickly reached.

    • Mooser
      December 19, 2016, 7:07 pm

      Well, well, look who is clutching his pearls:

      “This whole business of linking Weiners personal indiscretions to his political views re Israel is classless. So the guy was looking for some action outside of what is proper in this country. Big deal. It is not like he had a dungeon where he kept women for flailing. He sent some photos to some cuties online.” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/catalan/#sthash.0naQxxdx.dpuf

    • johneill
      December 19, 2016, 9:43 pm

      it does seem a much more distracting (triggering) and unhelpful rather than good or useful analogy.

    • kalithea
      December 20, 2016, 1:14 am

      You know what’s really sinister? ZIONISM.

      The slaughter of hundreds and hundreds of Palestinian children in the past 8 years alone with cluster bombs as the necessary evil to preserve your wretched land grab operation is real sick.

      EAT THAT instead of pooping so much hypocrisy and the goebbel hasbara you spread so thick around here.

    • Marnie
      December 20, 2016, 1:19 am

      Catalan – wrt your sensitivity about eljay’s rape comparisons you might want to consider the IOF threatens children they arrest with rape of the child and rape of his sisters, mother, etc., if they don’t cooperate. I find it repulsive – not so much that eljay uses that scenario but the fact that the IOF actually does it.

      And why don’t you write directly to eljay instead of your back door approach to something you claim bothers you. Aren’t you strong enough in your convictions to go mano a mano instead of your approach?

    • Elisabeth
      December 20, 2016, 4:22 am

      I am not sure that hormones are such a large part of rape. A sense of entitlement more likely. Men rarely rape women that are more powerful than themselves so hormones seem to be checked by self-preservation.

      • amigo
        December 20, 2016, 1:43 pm

        “A sense of entitlement more likely. “Elisabeth

        Now where have i read that claim before??.

  5. Maghlawatan
    December 19, 2016, 5:24 pm

    Lapid is lined up to be King of the Jews after Netanyahu. And he is very handsome. But what a crap answer. He thinks in Hebrew and his votes are in Hebrew so he answered in Hebrew.. and it was translated into English, where it is bullshit.

    • kalithea
      December 20, 2016, 12:24 am

      And he is very handsome.

      Yeah, about as handsome as the portrait of Dorian Gray. Don’t embellish evil.

  6. jennybush
    December 19, 2016, 6:10 pm

    Can’t Anthony make allyah to avoid being tossed out of the country? After all its his “homeland” too.

    • Mooser
      December 19, 2016, 7:14 pm

      Hello, “jennybush”! A welcome to you.

    • kalithea
      December 20, 2016, 12:25 am

      It’s hard to reject entitlement and privilege; no matter how well-intentioned Zionists are.

  7. RoHa
    December 19, 2016, 7:08 pm

    For the sake of those unfortunates who do not understand Strine, I will point out that “spit the dummy” means “throw a childish tantrum”.

    Example here.

    https://au.toluna.com/opinions/2013511/Joe-Hockey-has-once-again-spit-the-dummy

    (Note that the headline gets the past tense wrong. The correct past tense is “spat”. “Spit” follows the pattern of “sit” and “shit”, both of which change the “i” to “a” in the past tense.)

  8. kalithea
    December 20, 2016, 12:41 am

    Please read the comments section to understand how backward and ignorant some Democrat Jews are:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ralph-nader/an-open-letter-to-preside_b_13732780.html

    If the letter to Obama had been written by Hillary; they’d find an excuse to turn on her as well for their f…cking, precious Zionism. Liberals, my ass, except when it comes to Palestinian rights! Liberal Zionists would stab their own mother in the back should she threaten Zionism with Palestinian rights. Good thing it was only an easy target like Ralph Nader and they can still come out look all self-righteous. But any idiot knows that it wasn’t because of what happened 16 years ago Gore vs Bush that brought out all the vitriol!

    I can also imagine real high-minded conversation taking place in Tel-Aviv cafés among Liberal Zionists; except when you bring up how Palestinians have been ethnically cleansed and oppressed for almost 70 years; then no doubt they turn real hypocritical, ugly and base and you can cut the apathy with a knife.

    • DaBakr
      December 21, 2016, 1:40 am

      @k

      i’d like to know how the hell you know who these “backward and ignorant jews” are? maybe one name some might say is typically jewish but thats it. so it must be assumed you are a bigot from the outset and besides that-how do you know these responders are even ‘liberal’?

      Also-always had respect for ralph nader for his exposure of the US auto industry but he is so obviously out of his element on the topic of the middle east. he may idolize jimmy carter but there are so many factual errors in his letter it should be shocking but then if one thinks about it-ralph nader was over with years ago. he earned his hero status but is more successful now at raising money then exposing anything

      • Mooser
        December 21, 2016, 12:22 pm

        “Dabakr”, can I ask you something? How do you manage to mutter and grind your teeth at the same time? It is one hell of an effect.

  9. Marnie
    December 20, 2016, 1:13 am

    “The ones who call Jews pigs and monkeys in their school books are the Palestinians.”

    I never realized how thin-skinned zionists are. I don’t believe this crap for a minute, but whining about name-calling by children? When zionist adults will march and chant that Mohammad is a pig, death to arabs; will fill the streets outside of a mosque and protest the wedding on 2 muslims (the woman a convert from judaism); will scream and curse police to shoot a child; will taunt and threaten the sole Dawabsheh family survivor of jewish terrorism; etc., etc.

  10. catalan
    December 20, 2016, 10:47 am

    I insist that anthropomorphisms in politics are intellectually lazy. Countries are not people. Russia is not a mother. France is not a virgin. These things are designed to appeal to emotions. That is not a question of degree but simply of accuracy.
    As to Sibiriak and his unresolved anger issues. To my mind, trolling is repeating the same intellectually lazy metaphor every single day.

  11. Vera Gottlieb
    December 20, 2016, 11:05 am

    Poor israel…having to listen to so many inconvenient truths. It’s ears must be burning like mad.

  12. eljay
    December 20, 2016, 11:38 am

    || catalan @ December 20, 2016, 10:47 am ||

    1. Since I haven’t employed an anthropomorphism, I’m not intellectually lazy. Cool! I accept your compliment. :-)

    2. What really galls you Zionists is seeing your preferred brand of evil openly compared to another brand of evil as it contradicts your portrayals of Zionism and the oppressive, colonialist, (war) criminal and religion-supremacist “Jewish State” project as benign and munificent.

  13. Elisabeth
    December 20, 2016, 12:29 pm

    I have wondeful idea for you eljay. Why don’t you compare Israel’s oppression from now on with a white lynch mob, that grabs a black man, strips him naked before the joyful crowd, emasculates him, and then hangs him for all to see.

    And this over, and over, and over again, until your black readers get really sick of it, and complain.
    See what I’m getting at?

    • eljay
      December 20, 2016, 1:11 pm

      || Elisabeth: I have wondeful idea for you eljay. … ||

      I doubt it.

      || … Why don’t you compare Israel’s oppression from now on with a white lynch mob … ||

      No need – I already have a comparison to use.

      || … See what I’m getting at? ||

      I think I do see what you’re getting at. You feel that the actions of one fictitious “non-average” rapist or one fictitious white supremacist murderer are far more loathsome than seven decades’ worth – and counting – of real (war) crimes committed by real Zionists.

      I know you want to be the boss but, like I said before, if the powers that be at MW tell me to stop making the comparison, I will stop making it.

      • Elisabeth
        December 20, 2016, 5:03 pm

        I KNOW YOU WANT TO BE THE BOSS??! What?!!
        I thought you were just being insensitive, in your obsessive tales about women being dominated in cellars, but with this little gem out of the blue I am finally starting to agree with catalan.
        There seems to be more to this than just male obtuseness: You, apparently, read this whole exchange in terms of who dominates, and you think that that is what it is about. That is pretty disturbing.

      • eljay
        December 20, 2016, 9:27 pm

        || Elisabeth: I KNOW YOU WANT TO BE THE BOSS??! What?!!
        I thought you were just being insensitive, in your obsessive tales about women being dominated in cellars … ||

        Not nearly as insensitive as your dismissal of the real suffering of real women as “stuff taken from bad thrillers” and “Cliche’s”.

        || … but with this little gem out of the blue I am finally starting to agree with catalan. … ||

        So you, too, believe that the evils of Zionism and the “Jewish State” project amount to nothing more than the mild inconvenience of checkpoints. Interesting.

        || … There seems to be more to this than just male obtuseness: You, apparently, read this whole exchange in terms of who dominates, and you think that that is what it is about. That is pretty disturbing. ||

        And yet you continue to try to dominate me. That is pretty disturbing.

        I’ll repeat again what I said earlier: If the powers that be here at MW consider my comparison to be inappropriate or offensive and ask me to stop using it, I will stop using it.

    • Elisabeth
      December 20, 2016, 2:22 pm

      See Amigo? I already did that before your arrogant little ‘challenge’. Maybe, just maybe, you guys here should learn to be a little less presumptious, huh? Using the humiliation of raped women all the time, as a rhetical prop, as if you know anything about what it is to be a women, or to be raped.
      Would you feel as comfortable describing the humiliation and abuse of black men (fellow males after all) at the hands of a lynch mob? And can you imagine what a black man would feel coming here and reading again, and again, and again, how their real suffering has become a little toy for white guys who have no idea what they are talking about.

      I am hoping for some introspection on your (plural) side here, but in my experience Mondoweiss comment culture is shamefully macho. (See eljay’s reaction.)

      • eljay
        December 20, 2016, 2:58 pm

        || Elisabeth: … in my experience Mondoweiss comment culture is shamefully macho. … ||

        I know what you mean. I posted links to real stories about the real suffering of real women and this was your reaction:

        Oh wow eljay, that is sooooo representative of the average rape!

        Shameful indeed.

      • Bumblebye
        December 20, 2016, 3:30 pm

        Eljay’s analogy makes me wince, but I consider it entirely appropriate. The early zionists used the analogy of Palestine as a ‘bride’. Then there’s the oft quoted tale of someone writing back that the bride was already spoken for. Eljay clearly sees this ‘bride’ as having been kidnaped and abused.

      • MHughes976
        December 20, 2016, 4:28 pm

        Perhaps humiliation and suffering are not things to be put to use but the outrage and dismay caused by suffering ought surely to be used to some extent to increase the good and reduce the bad in this world: which I think eljay is trying to do. There is always a certain danger that we become fascinated by what we deplore.

      • amigo
        December 20, 2016, 4:28 pm

        “I am hoping for some introspection on your (plural) side here, but in my experience Mondoweiss comment culture is shamefully macho.”Elisabeth.

        Evidence please !!! real , not perceived.

        If you are suggesting that Eljay,s analogy , which condemns males for rape , please explain how that is sexism or macho.

        I took a look at your archives and note your first post was in 2010–not quite ten years but ,your posts are pro Palestinian rights.However I am curious as to why you expend so much of your effort mining for macho-ism in the ranks of males who expend their effort fighting for the rights of Palestinians –both male and female.Why not go back to pointing out Israel,s crimes v arguing with decent folks here who support justice and fair treatment for all.

      • Elisabeth
        December 20, 2016, 5:53 pm

        Eljay, do you realize that a woman is raped every second, and that your rape-in-the-cellar obsession is rare in the EXTREME, and nothing more than that: It may be your personal fantasy, but if I denounce that as not representative of what women really have to deal with, I am being realistic. That is the opposite of belittling what rape is. I think you owe me an apology. Show you are an adult, and just say it. It would do you some good.

      • Elisabeth
        December 20, 2016, 6:30 pm

        More later amigo, when i have more time, but first: What you tell me should sound familiar to you. “Why do I dig out minor transgressions, when there are so many far worse crimes against the Palestinians to get indignant about?”
        Recognize the irritating argument? Of course you do: It is the same as the typical zionist whataboutary.
        As long as there is slaughter in Syria etc. (other handy examples are often substituted) you are not supposed to bring up Palestinian suffering. And as long as there is Palestinian suffering i am not supposed to bring up sexism and crude language? Come on…

      • eljay
        December 20, 2016, 9:23 pm

        || Elisabeth: Eljay, do you realize that a woman is raped every second, and that your rape-in-the-cellar obsession is rare in the EXTREME, and nothing more than that … ||

        1. You may wish it were my obsession, but it isn’t.

        2. I compare Zionism and the “Jewish State” project to that particular scenario because, to my mind, both evils involve power, dominance, control, brutality and a warped sense of entitlement and possession. It’s a shame you can’t (or prefer not to) see that.

        3. I never claimed that the scenario I use is commonplace. You, on the other hand, shamefully referred to it as “stuff taken from bad thrillers” and “Cliche’s”, despite the fact that women do suffer in that manner.

        || … It may be your personal fantasy … ||

        You may wish it were my personal fantasy, but it isn’t.

        || … but if I denounce that as not representative of what women really have to deal with, I am being realistic. That is the opposite of belittling what rape is. … ||

        When you refer to the real suffering of real women as “stuff taken from bad thrillers” and “Cliche’s”, you are belittling it and them.

        || … I think you owe me an apology. … ||

        I know you owe those women an apology. Show you are an adult, and just say it.

      • kev
        December 22, 2016, 8:26 am

        “It may be your personal fantasy,”

        Really? You went there? I think that it is you who owe an apology for that particularly nasty insinuation. And before you add me to your “nasty deplorable machoism” club, yes I do know what it is to be raped. I am not at all offended by the metaphor because I also know that rape has often been used as a tool of war and oppression, and yes the state of Israel is one of those that has used rape to oppress the Palestinians. They rape and pillage and murder like the Vikings were said to have done. Perhaps the chains and basement part is less appropriate than alluding to what happened to Rasmea Odeh, or to rape as a tool of war and oppression, but the metaphor works and is not in my opinion, as a survivor of rape, in any way offensive. What is offensive is your insinuations against Eljay. It borders on defamation.

      • kev
        December 22, 2016, 8:52 am

        “as if you know anything about what it is to be a women, or to be raped – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2016/12/threatens-loewenstein-apartheid/comment-page-1/#comment-863754

        Well, Elisabeth, I do know what it is to be raped. And despite YOUR trivialization, the language of “chains” and a “dungeon” or a “basement” is, to my mind, entirely appropriate to the experience and after-effect of rape, whether or not those elements were present with the actual rape. The fear, anxiety, depression afterwards are themselves chains… the darkness, self-doubt, they are the dungeon. This is not trivialization of any rape. Nor is it misogyny to acknowledge that rape is horrible and has horrible long-lasting effects on the victim.

        And a state, like Israel, that essentially uses rape as a tool of war, and effectively imprisons (chains) the Palestinians, and plunders their resources while depriving them, keeping them in the dungeon… And you’re more concerned with the apt metaphor than you are with the behavior of the perpetrator, Israel? What is wrong with you?

      • eljay
        December 22, 2016, 9:46 am

        kev: I thank you for your understanding, and I am truly sorry to hear that you have suffered.

      • kev
        December 22, 2016, 3:28 pm

        Eljay, thanks for your empathy. It has been 35 years, but I can still remember his name, the smell of his breath, his foul, smokey cigarette mouth and his tongue forcing its way into my mouth. I won’t go into more detail, I’m already starting to cry. Yes, Elisabeth, men do cry. And, yes Elisabeth, men can understand rape.

      • echinococcus
        December 22, 2016, 9:13 pm

        Elizabeth,

        Just dandy. An entire country is totally illegally overrun, its people “ethnically cleansed” by the British then by US-fed goddam pirates, their towns and villages razed and disappeared under Ukrainian pines and the people being disappeared by an ongoing genocide –and you take offense at some “machismo”?

        Wrong discussion group. This here is about Palestine and supporting resistance to Zionism. People here are not supposed to share any other values. What if I don’t share any of yours? Did you have a good look at the latest generation of resistance, the Islamists? Take your indignation to feminism.org.

    • Elisabeth
      December 20, 2016, 2:58 pm

      You think I am pro Israel?!!! Just because I call you out on your sexism?
      Check out my comment profile. I have been commenting here for 10 years I think, until I got sick of the atmosphere here .

      • Eva Smagacz
        December 21, 2016, 12:51 pm

        Hello Elizabeth – I profoundly disagree with you on the impropriety of “rape victim in a basement” comparison.
        I think it’s a very good analogy to the situation that Palestinians find themselves in. In both cases there is complete disregard of humanity and suffering of the victim by the perpetrator, and both get off on exercising power and inflicting humiliation.

        The analogy works, because in both cases perpetrator does something that makes decent human beings recoil, and the only difference is that one perpetrator ( rapist) chooses his victim because she is of different sex, while another (Zionist) chooses his victims because they belong to incorrect ethni-religious category.

      • kev
        December 22, 2016, 1:42 pm

        Elisabeth, I think that you are a paid hasbarist and Zionist. I think that you come to this site to try to delegitimize and distract, you try to break up and divide the community by distracting from the real issues and make it into an issue of men versus women, political correctness with respect to how commenters use metaphors, anything but about the real issues of the violent occupation and oppression of the Palestinians. So I am very glad that you are planning to take your games and your wookies and your ugly and defamatory comments elsewhere.

      • Sibiriak
        December 22, 2016, 11:21 pm

        kev: Elisabeth, I think that you are a paid hasbarist and Zionist.
        ———–

        The “paid hasbarist” accusation is easy to make but almost impossible to prove–or disprove .

        Without any evidence to back it up, it’s a form of McCarthyism.

        But by all means, quote her and have at her Zionism wherever you can find it.

  14. Ossinev
    December 20, 2016, 12:47 pm

    Lapid is nothing more than a closet Fascist posing as a “centrist” in Israeli politics. The truth is that the so called “centre” in Israeli politics , if it ever truly existed , has imploded and the Lapidites to stay in political contention and to assuage their egos have bolted to the right to try and stay in the game with Likud. He is also a classic example of the pseudo – Europeanism of the Zionist colonists. Here we are poor little victimised , terrorised Israel with our “European standard” democracy in a sea of cannibalistic barbarian Arabs and all we get is criticism from Western lefties and self deniers and accusations of being Apartheid.

    As for children , education and hatred I wonder what he would have to say about the following shining examples of youthfull Zionist Lighting unto the Nations ?

    https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/video-death-arabs-march-forces-its-way-through-occupied-jerusalem

  15. catalan
    December 20, 2016, 2:49 pm

    Oh, really? You do? And I bet you know what “anthropomorphisms” means, too. – Mooser
    The attribution of human characteristics to countries, societies and cultures is anthropomorphism. For example, when you say that a country is upset. Or smart. Or friendly. It’s a metaphor, I get it. But ultimately a group of people, even though composed of people, is not a person. Just like a group of atoms composing a human being is not just atoms.
    I happen to think that societies function very differently from individual human beings. Thus, saying that the US “raped” Iraq or Vietnam is just, well, unhelpful.
    Enough about that though. I agree that keeping dissenting voices around makes a society stronger. Ironic though to hear this passionate defense of free speech in regard to Lowennstein on a website that neither promotes nor believes on free speech.

    • Mooser
      December 20, 2016, 4:03 pm

      “The attribution of human characteristics to countries, societies and cultures is anthropomorphism.”

      Darn, “Catalan”, you sure showed me! “The attribution of human characteristics to countries, societies and cultures”.
      Well, it’s better than comparing them to animals, I suppose.

      • Sibiriak
        December 20, 2016, 11:16 pm

        Mooser: Well, it’s better than comparing them to animals, I suppose.
        ———-

        That would be zoomorphism, “ a literary technique in which the animal attributes are imposed upon non-animal objects, humans, and events and animal features are ascribed to humans, gods and other objects.”

        http://literarydevices.net/zoomorphism/

        For example, attributing moose-like qualities to a human being.

      • Mooser
        December 21, 2016, 12:05 pm

        “For example, attributing moose-like qualities to a human being.”

        Well, mooses are people, too!

      • RoHa
        December 21, 2016, 5:49 pm

        “Well, mooses are people, too!”

        Which is why we sometimes need to ask, “Are you a man or a moose?”

  16. Elisabeth
    December 20, 2016, 3:31 pm

    I will not comment here any further.
    The only persons I really respect here, and who are worth reading, are Donald and Yakov Hirsch anyway. The rest of you are just repetitive jerks, who to whom this site is no more than a place to have pissing contests among the guys in who is ‘funniest’ or uses the term ‘zio-bot’ most frequently.
    An Annie? You bow to this crowd like a real Uncle Tom. I have thought this before, but I am saying it out loud now, for the first time (as I am leaving anyway).
    You have macho problem going on in the comment threads here. Trying to be ‘one of the guys’ and ignoring blatant sexism, never intervening for instance, when called it out on at least 3 previous occasions is shameful. “Grow a pair” ! (And look up the comments where I addressed that expression. Where were you then?)

    • kev
      December 22, 2016, 8:33 am

      Wow, you’re so offended, so you’re leaving. And on the way out you’re going to burn your bridges and make another truly offensive attack, this time on Annie, “You bow to this crowd like a real Uncle Tom.”

      Glad you’re leaving and taking your ugly attacks with you.

      Signed,

      One of the “jerks”.

    • Annie Robbins
      December 22, 2016, 9:35 am

      An Annie? You bow to this crowd like a real Uncle Tom.

      hmm, sorry, not really following this conversation. i’m traveling, heading up to london now (late!) and maybe i’ll remember to check back later . but a slight glimpse — this is my first comment on the thread and no time to review. you may need to copy paste an example of me uncle tomin’ it for me to understand your inflammatory reference.

  17. gingershot
    December 20, 2016, 4:38 pm

    If Anthony really wanted to make Lapid apoplectic and watch steam burst from his ears he could have added – ‘and Gorgeous George, how about the 5 million Palestinian refugees waiting to come home? – being illegally preventing from returning with all the rights in the world including UN 194, the Geneva Conventions, and all international law?’

    ‘When does Apartheid policy like that become simply state terrorism’

    • rosross
      December 20, 2016, 6:17 pm

      I thought there were 8 million Palestinians in the diaspora? Although one presumes not all would wish to return home.

  18. JLewisDickerson
    December 21, 2016, 7:36 pm

    RE: “Israel threatens to toss Antony Loewenstein after he asked Lapid question about apartheid ~ ~ ~ GPO (i.e., Government Press Office) director Nitzan Chen said he was leaning against renewing the press card of Antony Loewenstein, a Jerusalem- based freelance reporter . . .”

    MY SUDDEN, UNANTICIPATED SNEEZE: Gleichschaltung!*

    * SEE: “Who Will Save Israel” | Uri Avnery | zope.gush-shalom.org | May 23, 2015

    [EXCERPTS] The battle is over. The dust has settled. A new government – partly ridiculous, partly terrifying – has been installed. . .
    . . . Now the situation inside Israel proper is about to change drastically.
    Two facts attest to this.
    First of all, Ayelet Shaked has been appointed Minister of Justice.
    One of the most extreme right-wing Israelis, she has not made a secret of the fact that she wants to destroy the independence of the Supreme Court, the last bastion of human rights. . .
    . . . PERHAPS WORSE is Netanyahu’s decision to retain for himself the Ministry of Communication.
    This ministry has always been disdained as a low-level office, reserved for political lightweights. Netanyahu’s dogged insistence on retaining it for himself is ominous.
    The communication Ministry controls all TV stations, and indirectly newspapers and other media. Since all Israeli media are in very bad shape financially, this control may become deadly.
    Netanyahu’s patron – some say owner – Sheldon Adelson, the would-be dictator of the US Republican party, already publishes a give-away newspaper in Israel, which has only one sole aim: to support Netanyahu personally against all enemies, including his competitors in his own Likud party. The paper – “Israel Hayom” (Israel Today) – is already Israel’s widest-circulation newspaper, with the American casino king pouring into it untold millions.
    Netanyahu is determined to break all opposition in the electronic and written media. Opposition commentators are well advised to look for jobs elsewhere . . .
    . . . One cannot avoid an odious analogy. One of the key terms in the Nazi lexicon was the atrocious German word Gleichschaltung – meaning connecting all media to the same energy source [SEE: Gleichschaltung @ Wikipedia – J.L.D. ]. All newspapers and radio stations (TV did not yet exist) were staffed with Nazis. Every morning, a Propaganda Ministry official by the name of Dr. Dietrich convened the editors and told them what tomorrow’s headlines, editorials etc. were to be.
    Netanyahu has already dismissed the chief of the TV department. We don’t yet know the name of our own Dr. Dietrich. . .

    ENTIRE COMMENTARY – http://zope.gush-shalom.org/home/en/channels/avnery/1432296815/

    • kev
      December 22, 2016, 8:37 am

      “Good Morning, Israel!”
      Will they have a beefy set of humorless twins to perform censorship of anything that might be broadcast? Actually, maybe they already do…

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