Israeli gov’t doesn’t really want US to move embassy to Jerusalem — Foxman

Middle East
on 63 Comments

The opposition to Donald Trump’s promise to move the US embassy to Jerusalem continues to mount. In the Hill, scholar Tareq Baconi of al-Shabaka characterizes it as “a dangerous and irresponsible provocation that contravenes longstanding U.S. policy.”

And speaking two days ago at an Israeli security conference, longtime Israel supporter Abe Foxman said that the move would be a blow to peace efforts:  “it’s problematic,because it may undo some of the progress we’re all been hoping for.” And the Israeli government doesn’t care about it anyway, but it won’t say so publicly. Minute 15:

This is one of these political boxes you’re in. Listen, I’ve been here a couple of days. The Israeli government– this is not a number one, number two, number three– it’s not even a number eight priority. But no Israeli will publicly say that Jerusalem is not important or you shouldn’t move it. This is where the Trump administration, maybe because of the whisper of some Jews, believed every time you guys say Jerusalem, is Jerusalem–  It is problematic because it may undo some of the progress we’re all  hoping for.

Last year, Foxman also said the move was problematic, but said that Trump should move the embassy “gradually.”

About Philip Weiss

Philip Weiss is Founder and Co-Editor of Mondoweiss.net.

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63 Responses

  1. Mooser
    January 25, 2017, 8:25 pm

    “The opposition to Donald Trump’s promise to move the US embassy to Jerusalem continues to mount…”

    Trump promised, and if he doesn’t do it, he’s let down Israel.
    Taken something away from them, and we owe them something for it.
    What a negotiator!

    • Citizen
      January 25, 2017, 9:59 pm

      Trump always opens his side of any negotiation with the highest or lowest ball he can think of?

      • Mooser
        January 26, 2017, 4:05 pm

        The Russians were cooperating on nuclear regulation.
        Along comes Trump, and starts blabbing about tying cooperation to sanctions. A real negotiator.

        Hey, but that’s all right.“Entire State Department Management Team Fired By Trump Admin”

        No, the link is not to “The Onion”

        And today Bannon, who apparently can not be cleaned up, said, (and demanded it be quoted!) “The media should keep its mouth shut!”

      • Mooser
        January 28, 2017, 5:06 pm

        Oh, I see, Pat Kennedy headed an investigation into Erik Prince, Betsy DeVoss’ brother.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 28, 2017, 7:41 pm

        yep, i mentioned that the other day. i googled kennedy curious if he was the related to the brothers and noticed he chaired the investigation into blackwater. then i recalled an article i read prince and his sister were best buddy w/trump. hmm.

  2. JLewisDickerson
    January 25, 2017, 10:11 pm

    RE: The opposition to Donald Trump’s promise to move the US embassy to Jerusalem continues to mount. In the Hill, scholar Tareq Baconi of al-Shabaka characterizes it as “a dangerous and irresponsible provocation that contravenes longstanding U.S. policy.” ~ Weiss

    THE U.S. SENATE BEGS TO DIFFER: The World’s Most Deliberative Body™ (LOL) decided in 1995 by a vote of 95 to 3 (with 76 cosponsors) that the embassy SHOULD be moved to Jerusalem (by May 31, 1999)!*
    The World’s Most Deliberative Body (LOL) certainly wouldn’t have voted this way just for the campaign contributions, and anyone who says otherwise is a Jew-hating anti-Semite!
    Consequently, the World’s Most Deliberative Body (LOL) has decided this matter.
    End of story!

    * Jerusalem Embassy Act – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act

  3. Bandolero
    January 26, 2017, 3:09 am

    The “whisper of some Jews” – as Abe Foxman puts it:

    Hear the ZoA – a member organization of the Conference of Presidents describes the whisper:

    ZOA Concerned: Trump Refused to State Jerusalem is Undivided Capital of Israel

    … “Do The Right Thing”: The fact that President Obama and other past presidents have ignored (waived) the requirements of the Jerusalem Embassy Act has been a constant source of friction and outrage. Donald Trump often speaks about “doing tbe right thing” in other contexts. If elected president, Mr. Trump needs to do the right thing here. Mr. Trump should pledge to recognize undivided Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and move our U.S. embassy to Jerusalem – as several other presidential candidates have already pledged to promptly do if they are elected (including Senator Ted Cruz, Senator Marco Rubio, Governor Mike Huckabee, Governor Jeb Bush, Governor George Pataki – we apologize to any candidate inadvertently left off this list).

    http://zoa.org/2015/12/10306180-zoa-concerned-trump-refused-to-state-jerusalem-is-undivided-capital-of-israel/

    And that’s how the NYT described Trumps address at the RJC:

    Boos Overtake Laughs as Donald Trump Stumbles on Jerusalem Before G.O.P. Jews

    … Matthew Brooks, executive director of the Republican Jewish Coalition, raised the subject with Mr. Trump and questioned his commitment to Jerusalem as the undivided Israeli capital.

    Mr. Trump avoided answering the question, saying instead that he would be visiting Israel in the coming weeks and would meet there with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. “You know what I want to do? I want to wait till I meet with Bibi,” he said, but a chorus of boos erupted from the audience. …

    So, the lobby put out a stick, and Trump changed his stance and promised to move the embassy. As it turns out the stick was fake, a bluff, and now it’s become Trump’s stick. Netanyahu will come under pressure from his own fake stick.

    Everytime Trump says he’ll move the embassy because Israel wants it so much, the lobby will get more and more panic. And Netanyahu is fluttering, because saying the truth, that Israel didn’t and doesn’t want the US to move the embassy to Jerusalem will expose him and the lobby as the dishonest liar they always were.

    • Mooser
      January 26, 2017, 4:11 pm

      If Trump does not move the Embassy, the will US owe Israel for damages. A huge amount, because of all the terrible things which would not have happened if only Trump had moved the Embassy, like he promised.

  4. eljay
    January 26, 2017, 8:38 am

    … no Israeli will publicly say that Jerusalem is not important or you shouldn’t move it. This is where the Trump administration, maybe because of the whisper of some Jews, believed every time you guys say Jerusalem, is Jerusalem …

    The “whisper of some Jews” smacks mightily of anti-Semitism and maybe even “Jew hatred”.

    • Boo
      January 27, 2017, 5:23 pm

      Of course, because only Muslims whisper. Jews always holler, so “whisper of some Jews” is a horrible canard.

  5. Ira Glunts
    January 26, 2017, 9:20 am

    “it’s problematic, because it may undo some of the progress we’re all been hoping for.” — Foxman above.

    How can something hoped for be undone? Zionist speak? Hasbalogic? Hasbara culture? Or just nuanced thinking?

    • just
      January 26, 2017, 10:17 am

      It’s the same old ‘alternative facts’ we’ve been hearing forever from Israel via Foxman and his brother and sister Zionists~ here, there, and everywhere.

      There’s nothing “nuanced” about it. It’s just another lie.

  6. Blownaway
    January 26, 2017, 11:15 am

    This is why I voted for Trump chaos! Unlike Clinton this bull In a China shop will clearly demonstrate that’s it’s Israel first at all times. Moving the embassy and per the NYT cutting off UN organizations that support Palestinian rights will cause the US to pay a huge diplomatic and political price in the world. Maybe just maybe the public which doesn’t really care about Israel will start asking questions about this special relationship

  7. Ronald Johnson
    January 26, 2017, 11:26 am

    It is scary to contemplate Abe Foxman and friends earnestly discussing the religious schisms inherent to theocracy, while sitting on a rumbling volcano. Whom the gods would destroy, they first make mad. Apparently, reading the scriptures can drive one mad, especially when indulged with great sums of money to build a religious, escapist state.

    The ongoing killing of Palestinians for the seizure of their land inspires outrage among the non-members, soon to a degree that not even Frank Luntz can contain with his mendacious vocabularies.

    At home we have the spectacle of Mad King Donald, writing his edict to move the Embassy to Jerusalem. I can visualize it as Abe Foxman suggested: first a caravan-house trailer in an old cemetery, eventually a high rise.

  8. Ossinev
    January 26, 2017, 12:30 pm

    @Ira Glunts

    “it’s problematic, because it may undo some of the progress we’re all been hoping for.” — Foxman above”

    Remember you will never ever get a straight , logical answer from a Fifth Columnist. They are trained to speak in riddles when facing difficult questions.

    All the same the One State alarm bells must be ringing loudly in the ears of the Israel First Zionist Jews in America. They must already be deafening to the Yahoo and the other “moderate”.
    extremists in Zioland.

  9. just
    January 26, 2017, 12:40 pm

    Lookie here:

    “U.S. State Department’s Senior Management Team Reportedly Resigns en Masse

    Washington Post reports on ‘ongoing mass exodus’ of officers not willing to serve under Trump. ‘It’s the single biggest simultaneous departure of institutional memory that anyone can remember, and that’s incredibly difficult to replicate.'”

    http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/1.767746

    and

    “Mexican president cancels US visit over Trump’s order to build border wall”

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jan/26/mexican-president-cancels-us-visit-border-wall-nieto-trump

    • Annie Robbins
      January 26, 2017, 1:48 pm

      just, re the wapo article. pat kennedy, undersecretary of management, chaired an investigation into blackwater, so trump’s friend prince (also sister to devos, our new education secretary -has she been confirmed yet?) probably wanted him gone.

    • Maghlawatan
      January 26, 2017, 2:41 pm

      Trump is a car crash. I can’t see how he can pull off his shtick in an educated country. The GOP people include the evangelicals who are ignorant and pay for it but the half that didn’t vote for Trump is not and the lies won’t fly with them.

    • Mooser
      January 26, 2017, 4:14 pm

      “Resigned”? The latest is that Trump fired them, but nobody seems to know.

      “I can’t see how he can pull off his shtick in an educated country.”

      Neither can I. Unfortunately, at the present time, Trump is in the US. Notice Trump is looking visibly worse after half a week.

      • catalan
        January 26, 2017, 5:06 pm

        “Neither can I. ”
        Mooser, to figure out how Trump won, look no further than your favorite blog. Most people here either support him outright or are “Hillary is no better”. That includes the editorial staff.

      • Mooser
        January 26, 2017, 6:19 pm

        “Mooser, to figure out how Trump won, look no further than your favorite blog.”

        Oh my gosh, you are right! Here a typical example:

        I voted for Trump. I haven’t seen any of this racist nationalism you speak of and I am even in the government. Many hispanics here voted for Trump. Jews, to the extent that they are well educated and prosperous willl very much benefit from Trump’s pro business regime. I also support his friendly stance towards Russia. The sky won’t fall, everything will be fine and if not, there are elections in 2 years. I think this potential American Russian alliance is fantastic.” http://mondoweiss.net/profile/catalan/?keyword=Trump#sthash.qEaTNvSc.dpuf

        .” I am confident that Trump will be a fabulous president for rich people (like me for instance). Heck, he already has been, just look at the stock market the last few weeks. You rock!” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/catalan/?keyword=Trump#sthash.qEaTNvSc.dpuf

        “With Trump, it’s tax cuts and less regulation, I.e party time for the moneyed ones. But yes, that too shall pass, but I plan to enjoy it during my allotment.” – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/profile/catalan/?keyword=Trump#sthash.qEaTNvSc.dpuf

        Did you know “catalan” is rich? He is one of “the moneyed ones”

      • catalan
        January 26, 2017, 8:45 pm

        Did you know “catalan” is rich? He is one of “the moneyed ones.
        True, but mainly because I was lucky. Right place right time sort of thing. Due to my situation I was leaning republican this cycle although I voted for Obama twice. I think that Hillary could not get the far left to vote for her – e.g people like pabelmont, annie, Keith, and many others. People with my kind of money are very few and they mostly don’t vote democratic anyway. But the far left staying home or even preferring Trump, basically the Bernie or Bust crowd, that cost her the election.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 27, 2017, 4:33 am

        yes, it cost her the election that a significant portion of left didn’t like her, and the gop despised her and brought out their base. and independents, the largest voting block in the american electorate (the majority of whom generally vote democratic), they didn’t like her either. let this be a lesson to the dem party, as they keep moving right (shumer said, for every working class voter we lose we’ll gain 2 moderate republicans), you need the left (the anti war coalitions). you lose the left and you lose the presidency and congress and the supreme court.

        this should not surprise anyone, it’s well known and it’s been known for a long long time. in all the national polls bernie did better in a match up w/trump than clinton (by 12 pts!) did. but, the dem establishment wanted her regardless, and they backed her, and she lost. so, was it the left’s fault? or was it the dnc/dem establishment for backing the wrong horse? the dems better learn a lesson here, they can’t afford to lose the left. and they should have backed the candidate that had the wind at his back (as obama did when the superdelegates started backing him, as they should have, as his momentum was on the rise, like bernie’s was with those 20-30k crowds gathering on the campaign trail) and the support of the independents, the largest voting block in the country. stupid to go after moderate gop.

        they gambled they could scare the left w/trump (as revealed in the clinton emails). and they lost, they have no one to blame but themselves.

      • Maghlawatan
        January 27, 2017, 5:35 am

        The Dems thought it was Business as Usual. Clinton was BAU. It was her turn.
        Sanders understood it is a systemic crisis. So did Trump. Clinton had no answer to the frustrations of blue collar workers.

      • catalan
        January 27, 2017, 9:42 am

        “Sanders understood it is a systemic crisis”.
        Where I live, right in the middle of the country, people seem pretty happy, the shops are crowded. It is not more a crisis now than ever, actually, crime and teen pregnancies are at an all time low. The media do not reflect accurately normal life with their focus on the unusual.
        Four years of Trump with republican congress will be much better for big investors than four years of Hillary. I am greatful for the result of course because I was not expecting tax cuts. I am also still in disbelief; I was prepared for the opposite scenario. That the left decided to give the rich a big gift because Hillary was not good enough is just ironic. I am sure policies will change but YOLO.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 27, 2017, 11:09 am

        The media do not reflect accurately normal life with their focus on the unusual.
        Four years of Trump with republican congress will be much better for big investors than four years of Hillary.

        sorry, i missed the connection here. you sort of jumped from media to the economy. 8 years w/obama was a huge boon for the top one percent.

      • Annie Robbins
        January 27, 2017, 11:29 am

        the left decided to give the rich a big gift because Hillary was not good enough

        really? i wonder how many of the left “decided” to give the rich a gift? aren’t you forgetting clinton’s ties to wall street, or is that just a figment of my imagination?

        I live, right in the middle of the country, people seem pretty happy

        you’re in new mexico right? albuquerque or something?

      • Maghlawatan
        January 27, 2017, 11:41 am

        Bush was pro rich and he almost destroyed the US economy. Trump will probably finish the job. If he goes ahead with his tax cuts the US will need to run a deficit of 15% of GDP during the next crisis. And nobody will fund it.

      • Mooser
        January 27, 2017, 12:59 pm

        “True, but mainly because I was lucky. Right place right time sort of thing” “Catalan”

        Hey, “catalan” I don’t know how things are in the rather third rate Eastern European countries, but here in America, you can generally tell how rich a person is by how much they brag about their money.
        I mean, it never fails. The guy who brags about how much pelf he possesses always has twice as much as he is willing to talk about.

      • oldgeezer
        January 28, 2017, 12:43 am

        @catalan

        I doubt anyone is buying into the claim you are rich. You are a low level management position in a municipality (which i will concede tend to be overpaid). You don’t even have supervisory functuons which means your management level position is merely one of gaming the pay amd classification system.

        Just as i nailed you as a typical zionist when you first posted I will add that you are a stereotypical narcissist.

        I am glad you post. You have provided continual comic relief to the website. I underrate your abilities when i posit you are a legend in your own mind.

      • oldgeezer
        January 28, 2017, 12:49 am

        @catalan

        Yes east European nations are third rate nations. Not to to say their citizens are third rate or even not first rate in any way. Their states and governance are equivocable to other hell holes ruled by despots and dictators.

        Your defense of them speaks to a lack of both common senze and morality in your beliefs.

        Finance right? Sure… go update your taxes receivable subledger. I am sure your self proclaimed wizardy with numbers can do a reasonable job under appropriate supervision.

      • Mooser
        January 28, 2017, 9:47 pm

        There’s only way we can settle this! “Catalan” must show us his tax returns! If he won’t do that,” lock him up”. Lock up “crooked Theo!”

        Oh, wait, it was Hillary who showed financial statements, not Trump!

        And no, “Theo” don’t go the “I’ll-show-you-mine-if-you-show-me-yours” bullshit route. Nobody else even mentioned their income.

      • Mooser
        January 28, 2017, 11:28 pm

        “And no, “Theo”…”

        Should be “catalan” of course. I can explain. Last Saturday my wife went to the Seattle march, as she knew she must, and caught a flu, as I knew she would. And then about Wednesday-Thursday, I came down with it.
        My apologies to you, “Theo”.

      • Sibiriak
        January 29, 2017, 3:15 am

        @Mooser, oldgeezer

        [oldgeezer:] Yes east European nations are third rate nations. […] Their states and governance are equivocable [sic] to other hell holes ruled by despots and dictators

        ——————–

        I don’t think these gibes regarding eastern Europe are particularly enlightening.

        For one thing, they obfuscate the role that the “first rate nations”–U.S. and Western Europe–have played in creating and/or exacerbating problems in eastern Europe such as economic inequality, industrial collapse, ethnonationalism, corruption, authoritarianism, lack of liberal institutions, the “rule of law”, social safety-nets, etc.

        The “first rate” Western policy of neoliberal “shock therapy” and all its many consequences after the dismantling of the Soviet bloc or the recent Western-backed “regime change” in Ukraine and the “first rate” development plan pushed on that nation could be good jumping off points for a serious discussion of the issue.

      • Mooser
        January 29, 2017, 3:07 pm

        “I don’t think these gibes regarding eastern Europe are particularly enlightening.”

        My mistake. I thought bragging about how much money one has, (especially in an Internet forum!) was considered pretty third-rate all over the world.
        But I haven’t been everywhere so I don’t know.

    • RoHa
      January 26, 2017, 4:49 pm

      “”U.S. State Department’s Senior Management Team Reportedly Resigns en Masse ”

      When I look at US foreign policy, I find it hard to think this resignation is a bad thing.

      • Keith
        January 26, 2017, 7:08 pm

        ROHA- “When I look at US foreign policy, I find it hard to think this resignation is a bad thing.”

        Same here. Now if only the CIA would follow suit.

      • Mooser
        January 26, 2017, 9:19 pm

        Does the State Department or the CIA make US foreign policy?

      • RoHa
        January 26, 2017, 10:01 pm

        Perhaps not, but neither seems to have very successful at moderating it.

      • Keith
        January 27, 2017, 12:05 am

        MOOSER- “Does the State Department or the CIA make US foreign policy?”

        In consultation with the Deep State, yes. Perhaps you thought that Nobel Peace Laureate Barack Obama instructed Victoria Nuland to say “Fuck the EU”?

      • Mooser
        January 27, 2017, 12:39 pm

        “In consultation with the Deep State, yes.”

        Wow, I never thought about it that way. I can’t think of anybody in a better position to resist the emoluments and threats and manipulation of the “Deep State”, it’s Donald Trump.

        See, Hilary is a Democrat, and Trump a Republican, so they must be the opposite. Why couldn’t I see that?

      • Mooser
        January 29, 2017, 3:12 pm

        Well, what do you know:

        “President Trump’s executive order reorganizing the National Security Council removed the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Director of National Intelligence as regular members of the principals committee and added former Breitbart News Executive Chairman and now Presidential Counseler Steve Bannon.” TPM

        And speaking of Executive orders, and being C-in-C, all US interventions are continuing, and the first drone victims and American soldiers have been killed under Trump. But don’t worry, Mattis and Flynn will take care of that interventionism.

  10. Ossinev
    January 26, 2017, 4:54 pm

    Would be interesting to know if the bookmakers here in the UK are giving odds on how long America`s very own bouffant buffoon will actually last in office before he implodes. I expect that in the coming months if not weeks his main priority will be in making sure that his hairstylist team stay ahead of the game in coloring the grey strands which will soon be popping up everywhere on his confection. At least Obama had the class to leave it alone – but then again whatever his record he did have class and the majority of Americans I suspect will be looking back to recent times past and thinking “if only”.

  11. Nevada Ned
    January 27, 2017, 6:17 am

    I can recall the 1980’s, (30 years ago!!) when the US Senate proclaimed its support for moving the US embassy to Jerusalem.
    One leftist Jewish friend growled “I’ll tell them where they can put the stupid embassy!”

    • oldgeezer
      January 28, 2017, 11:49 pm

      @Nevada Ned

      You really didn’t need to point out i was nearing the end of my mid life crisis 30 years ago. How depressing. The only bright side being the large number of friends I have outlived. No not really. Happier today than I have been in ages but the reasons are both wonderful and personal.

  12. catalan
    January 27, 2017, 1:41 pm

    “in the rather third rate Eastern European countries”
    I don’t think that there are third rate countries but there are certainly third-rate individuals. The way you spot them, they speak with superiority towards groups of people (Catholics, Muslims, or Eastern Europeans)

    • Mooser
      January 27, 2017, 2:14 pm

      “The way you spot them, they speak with superiority towards groups of people(Catholics, Muslims, or Eastern Europeans)”

      Okay, maybe they do that, but they never, ever brag about how “rich” and “moneyed” they are, to the point of sharing interests with the very rich, and knowing Trump is working for them.
      That would be fourth-rate, and who wants to sink that low if you don’t have to? (Especially without ever giving any income numbers!)

  13. catalan
    January 27, 2017, 3:22 pm

    Mooser,
    You disappointed me. I had built you up in my head as someone with a sore spot about Israel; but overall a nice person who understands that the country you live in does not reflect on you as a person. Thus, as an American citizen, I can no more claim credit for Franklin and Jefferson than feel guilty about Ted Bundy. I am just me. Your comment about third-rate countries shows me that you are like all the rest of them.

    • Mooser
      January 27, 2017, 6:00 pm

      “. I am just me.”

      Yeah, and that’s bad enough on it’s own.
      No wonder you broadcast all that bullshit about being “rich” and “moneyed”.

      “You disappointed me.”

      Sorry. In that case, you don’t have to send me any money. not a cent.

      “catalan” there was once a very famous and successful Jewish actor (I forget which one) who was performing a scene which involved climbing up the ivy to a girl’s window. He slipped, and broke his leg. They called for an ambulance and administered aid while waiting. His co-star was very solicitous and kept on asking ” Are you comfortable, FASJA, are you comfortable?”
      Finally the big star looked up at him, and said: “Am I comfortable? I don’t know. Feh, I make a living.”

    • catalan
      January 27, 2017, 8:46 pm

      No wonder you broadcast all that bullshit about being “rich” and “moneyed”. – mooser
      That’s jealousy now. Think of it this way – you are funnier than me and probably have more friends. You also had a much happier childhood. So don’t begrudge the money – remember Job.

      • Mooser
        January 28, 2017, 5:14 pm

        . “So don’t begrudge the money – remember Job.”

        What money “catalan”?
        You have proven only one thing about your “money”; you can raise bus fare down to the local Library, where there are internet-connected computers.
        Why do you feel such a need to convince us how much money you have? When there’s no way it can be proved?
        Sort of a third-rate Eastern European thing, maybe?

      • catalan
        January 28, 2017, 10:18 pm

        Anyway, if you need bus-fare home from the library, let me know. Be glad to. – Mooser
        I am really confounded about why you are so hung up on the money thing. I mentioned that I did certain things that made some profits. I still know that Trump is a fraud and a conman. I just also had to protect some interests. So I ended up voting for Trump out of selfishness, honestly, with disgust. At least I don’t like the guy. What I find fascinating is that the far left still likes Trump better than Hillary. It’s not about me – the fact is that rich people (exclude me if that makes you happy) benefitted enormously from the decision of the socialist left to either not vote, vote third party, or vote Trump. Even if I cease to exist, this still remains the fact – The Bernie crowd proved their point.

      • oldgeezer
        January 28, 2017, 11:13 pm

        @Mooser

        In tbe interests of international cooperation i will go halves with you on the fare.

        Nafta may die but we’re still (very very) distant neighbours. Far enough apart the u gets lost somewhere on the journey.

      • Mooser
        January 29, 2017, 12:35 pm

        “Nafta may die but we’re still (very very) distant neighbours”

        We are close neighbors with Mexico, and share a long and varied history. And lots of people, considering the border changes and purchases.

  14. catalan
    January 28, 2017, 1:12 pm

    “Yes east European nations are third rate nations.” Oldgeezer
    Maria Curie, Tesla, Brahms, Liszt, Erdos, Tarski, Kafka. Given the role of Poland, Hungary, Czechia, Serbia etc in western and global civilization that comment sounds beyond ignorant – laughable maybe?

    • Mooser
      January 28, 2017, 9:56 pm

      “Maria Curie, Tesla, Brahms, Liszt, Erdos, Tarski, Kafka”

      Wow, you come from a very distinguished family. So I guess “Maria Curie, Tesla, Brahms, Liszt, Erdos, Tarski, Kafka” all spent their time bragging about their money? Sure, that’s what made them great!

      Anyway, if you need bus-fare home from the library, let me know. Be glad to.

    • eljay
      January 29, 2017, 9:32 am

      || oldgeezer: … Yes east European nations are third rate nations. Not to to say their citizens are third rate or even not first rate in any way. Their states and governance are equivocable to other hell holes ruled by despots and dictators. … ||

      || catalan: … Maria Curie, Tesla, Brahms, Liszt, Erdos, Tarski, Kafka. Given the role of Poland, Hungary, Czechia, Serbia etc in western and global civilization that comment sounds beyond ignorant – laughable maybe? ||

      What is beyond ignorant – laughable actually – is your cheap distortion of what he said. Unless, of course, you’re suggesting that Curie, Tesla, Brahms, Liszt, Erdos, Tarski and Kafka are not people but states and governance.

  15. catalan
    January 29, 2017, 10:41 am

    “Their states and governance are equivocable [sic] to other hell holes ruled by despots and dictators – ” eljay
    I feel that we have now entered alternate reality. In the age of google and Wikipedia it is very easy to confirm that Poland, Czech, Hungary are all very high on the human development index, have high GDP per capita and excellent education and healthcare. Are we really discussing whether Budapest and Prague are hell-holes?

    • amigo
      January 29, 2017, 12:20 pm

      “I feel that we have now entered alternate reality” Catalan.

      Correction , You were already there.

    • eljay
      January 29, 2017, 12:37 pm

      || catalan: … I feel that we have now entered alternate reality. … ||

      It sure seems that way. Not only did you (intentionally?) attribute to me something oldgeezer said but, in the previous reality, you were entirely unable to distinguish between states and governance and individuals.

    • John O
      January 29, 2017, 1:40 pm

      All three are members of the European Union, which helped lift them out of poverty and dictatorship (just as the EU did a generation earlier with Greece, Spain and Portugal). They are certainly swinging, pendulum-like, back towards authoritarian governments, and the EU is not able to do much about it – e.g. if they tried to sanction Hungary, the Polish government could veto it. This is worrying, but not nearly so worrying as the exact same political shift in the USA right now.

    • oldgeezer
      January 29, 2017, 3:48 pm

      @catalan

      Two quick points. There are more than three states in the various grouping(s) referred to as Eastern Europe. Your reliance on numbers alone is neither particularly appropriate nor wise. For example those wonder states such as Qatar, Suadi Arabia and the UAE rank higher in some respects and you would be hard pressed to find many who would argue they are first rate.

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