The rabbi’s daughter isn’t buying AIPAC’s defense of Israel on apartheid charge

US Politics
on 48 Comments

Last night at the Park Avenue Synagogue in NY, two Zionist organizations staged a panel on the future of Zionism featuring the former US ambassador to Israel, Daniel Shapiro, and Elliot Cosgrove, rabbi of the Conservative synagogue in whose basement the event was held.

Shapiro spoke of the “miracle” of Israel and his commitment to Zionism– an attachment on the part of Obama’s ambassador that Hanan Ashrawi specifically denounced just last Friday as evidence of the U.S.’s control of the peace process for Israel’s benefit. But believe me, there was nothing problematic about Shapiro’s beliefs last night for the audience of 250 older Jews. No, the ticket price, $25, seemed intended to sort out anti-Zionists; and the organizers made clear that folks from that community were not welcome.

Nonetheless, a good deal of the conversation involved issues that anti-Zionists have forced into the discourse.

Rabbi Elliot Cosgrove, Ellen Hershkin, president of Hadassah; former US ambassador Daniel Shapiro; Lisa Holstein, editor of Hadassah magazine, are four on left in this photo of event at Park Avenue Synagogue March 28, 2017, photo from Rabbi’s twitter feed

Cosgrove was asked by moderator Lisa Holstein of Hadassah Magazine about his statement last year from the pulpit that “the critical bond” between the Jewish communities in U.S. and Israel is imperilled. He explained that there is a conflict today inside the Jewish community between the “protective and prophetic” values of Judaism. He related that like Shapiro, he had just attended the AIPAC conference.

I went with my daughter… and I’m sitting there next to my daughter, and every single speaker is decrying the slander against the state of Israel in public forums, in the UN and otherwise, of Israel as an apartheid state. OK? If you were at AIPAC you know that this was sort of the talking point on the script. And my daughter leans over to me, and says, “Wait a second, if there are Palestinians living under Israeli rule, and they’re not allowed to vote, then at what point is Israel becoming an apartheid state. Isn’t that–”

I see her squirming with certain questions. My daughter.

Or outside, when we walked in, there’s an organization I actually don’t know much about the organization other than its name, which is IfNotNow, ripping off of the Hebrew Im lo achshav; they’re asking if we don’t make moves now for a two state solution then at what point will there be so many facts on the ground that it will become an impossibility or a very very painful one. So I see these questions percolating in my own family, in my own community and in American Jewry as well…

So where do we go from here? That’s what I’m trying to figure out. How do I explain to my daughter that there’s a fundamental need for a state of Israel; that Israel is not an apartheid state, that Israel is a nation whose Arab neighbors have never acknowledged Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state… But also know that it’s not only the stated policy of Israel and the stated policy of America but it’s actually  in the best interest of the future of the Jewish state to have a two -state solution, and then advocating for that is… not only not a betrayal of their Zionism, but actually an actualization in the finest way  of their Zionism.

Cosgrove said that part of the answer is that Jewish children need to be told some of the truth about Israel, sooner than later.

I think Zionist education is critical here…. My wife is here so I’m going to get in trouble for what I’m going to say. But when I tell my children the story of our courtship, I begin– at a certain age I layer in one set of the story; at another age, I layer in another part of the story, when they’re ready, right? But first, I make sure they know that Mommy and Daddy love each other very, very much…

I mean, I’m an educator. I think there needs to be a full-court press from organizations like Hadassah and otherwise that at every level, Hebrew school kids, day school kids, and otherwise, the questions that my daughter was asking me– they need to have working answers all the way up through, until they are on their way to the college, and prepared with the narrative and the right of Jewish self-determination in their own land.

I think we’re woefully underpreparing  American kids for that right now.

I’ll have more from this discussion in days to come. I’d note one comment by Shapiro. He said that the question of one state between the river and the sea was one he always deafened his ears to, as being posed by anti-Zionists who wanted an end to a Jewish state. But now that question is being posed by “friends” on the Israeli right. He’s still against the idea. But it was a revelation about who Shapiro sees as constituting his community. Back to my opening here: The most important Jewish questions are now being posed by young Jews and anti-Zionists; but the Jewish establishment really doesn’t want them in the house.

Nope; just tell them that Mommy (American Jewry) and Daddy (Israel) love each other very very much. This won’t last.  And by the way, I can’t wait for IfNotNow to have a meeting with Cosgrove, and then report on it.

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48 Responses

  1. eljay
    March 29, 2017, 2:34 pm

    … How do I explain to my daughter that there’s a fundamental need for a state of Israel …

    You don’t have to explain it to her because there is no fundamental need for either an Israel or a religion-supremacist “Jewish State”.

    … that Israel is not an apartheid state …

    Tell her that it’s actually a religion-supremacist state.

    … that Israel is a nation whose Arab neighbors have never acknowledged Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state …

    Israel doesn’t have a right to exist as a religion-supremacist state. Its “Arab neighbours” shouldn’t be expected or required to acknowledge, accept or otherwise validate that non-existent “right”.

    • oldgeezer
      March 29, 2017, 7:06 pm

      @eljay

      I disagree slightly…
      “… How do I explain to my daughter that there’s a fundamental need for a state of Israel … – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2017/03/daughter-defense-apartheid/#comment-176232

      If there was a fundamental need the question would not need to be asked by anyone of average intelligence or better.

      “… that Israel is a nation whose Arab neighbors have never acknowledged Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state … – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2017/03/daughter-defense-apartheid/#comment-176232

      Just as Israel has never acknowledged their right to exist in any form. When people such as Nutty have publicly claimed support for carving new states out of the territory of existing states.

      The Arabas have offered peace however. Offers which Israel has rejected out of hand without counterproposal.

      • eljay
        March 30, 2017, 7:54 am

        || oldgeezer: @eljay

        I disagree slightly… ||

        Fair enough. :-)

        || … Just as Israel has never acknowledged their right to exist in any form. … ||

        I wouldn’t argue a “just as” angle because, to my mind, it implies that if Israel were to acknowledge the right of a Palestinian state (a legitimate construct) to exist, Palestinians would be required to acknowledge the right of a religion-supremacist “Jewish State” (an illegitimate construct) to exist.

      • oldgeezer
        March 30, 2017, 10:23 am

        @eljay

        Also fair enough.

        I tend to view it from the practical angle that Israel does exist. Yeah… I have problems with the defining of the state in other terms and should have picked up on that. Mutual recognition of existance should suffice.

      • eljay
        March 30, 2017, 10:42 am

        || oldgeezer: … Mutual recognition of existance should suffice. ||

        Mutual recognition of the existence of secular and democratic states…
        – of and for all of their respective citizens, immigrants, expats and refugees; and
        – within their respective (Partition) borders,
        …definitely. :-)

      • oldgeezer
        March 30, 2017, 11:35 am

        @eljay

        Absolutely!

    • Misterioso
      March 30, 2017, 11:11 am

      Also, Israel is not a “Jewish state.” About 25% of its citizens is comprised of non-Jews and they are the most rapidly growing segment of the population.

      Nor should we forget that Jewish immigration to Israel is a trickle and emigration is soaring .
      Indeed, it was revealed last week that one-third of Israel’s Jews are seriously thinking of leaving.
      No surprise!!

      • catalan
        March 30, 2017, 1:17 pm

        “Indeed, it was revealed last week that one-third of Israel’s Jews are seriously thinking of leaving.” – Misterioso
        It sounds like the prospects for the Palestinians are great indeed. Like Trump says, things are gonna be so great, that they are going to ask “enough, we don’t want so much greatness”. This is wonderful news as we are all on the same page, in seeking an end to the conflict. I sometimes get a little down, but then I read the comment section, and then I am like, Palestine is going to be the new Denmark and Switzerland in one, and soon!

      • eljay
        March 30, 2017, 1:27 pm

        || catalan: … This is wonderful news as we are all on the same page, in seeking an end to the conflict. I sometimes get a little down, but then I read the comment section, and then I am like, Palestine is going to be the new Denmark and Switzerland in one, and soon! ||

        I have no idea how I-P will turn out, but my hope is that the resulting one or two secular and democratic states:
        – do not follow Israel’s example of trying to be less bad than Saudi Arabia, Mali and African “hell-holes”; and, instead,
        – strive to be as good as the best states in the world.

      • catalan
        March 30, 2017, 1:51 pm

        “I have no idea how I-P will turn out, but my hope is…” Eljay
        I guess we are the only two that way then. Pretty much everyone else here knows how it will turn out, and it is terrible for the Israelis and supremely awesome for the Palestinians.

      • Mooser
        March 30, 2017, 5:57 pm

        “Indeed, it was revealed last week that one-third of Israel’s Jews are seriously thinking of leaving.”

        We really should start talking about the minimum number of Israeli Jews needed to make Israel viable. Certainly if the population goes below a certain number ‘security’ may be imperilled.

      • MHughes976
        March 30, 2017, 6:19 pm

        Where is this information to be found, Mist?

      • oldgeezer
        March 30, 2017, 7:09 pm

        @Mooser

        No doubt some inventive method can be found to reduce the herd size the others.

        With faith all things are possible.

      • gamal
        March 30, 2017, 7:19 pm

        “number of Israeli Jews”

        in fairness you make this too easy the minyan is 54-46.

        but give it to me one time, two time, whats my number.

        https://youtu.be/UhH1Lxv-8sA

  2. pabelmont
    March 29, 2017, 3:18 pm

    I was once on a committee charged with explaining the meaning of a document (in fact, a programming language reference manual). We were not to change the meaning, just explain it. Easy, right?

    Well at one point, a member of the committee said, “In other words, on page 88 line 15, where it says ‘Yes’ it means ‘No’ (just explaining the meaning, folks!) ”

    So how are the Jewish community leaders (either self appointed or big-money-appointed in many cases) going to square (their version of) “Zionism” with things like the on-the-ground-actualities in Israeli-controlled territory. Tough? No way:

    “When on page 1, line 1, of the Zionism Reference Manual, it says “Israel is democratic and Jewish”, it means “Jewish-dominated and apartheid rules to distinguish Jews and non-Jews.”

    See? They don’t even need to change the words on page 1, line 1. Just explain them.

  3. Mooser
    March 29, 2017, 3:39 pm

    “I see her squirming with certain questions. My daughter.”

    Rabbi, if you haven’t got what it takes to look that Prietzteh right in the eye and say ‘Keep asking those certain questions and you will start a battle of wills with your own father, do you hear?’ you haven’t got what it takes.
    (It sounds even better if there are a couple of witnesses right on hand.)

    • Mooser
      March 29, 2017, 3:43 pm

      “they need to have working answers all the way up through, until they are on their way to the college, and prepared with the narrative and the right of Jewish self-determination in their own land.”

      And they will be all set to teach the college the facts in their freshman year! That’s why we send them to college, isn’t it?

  4. yonah fredman
    March 29, 2017, 4:00 pm

    There are basic problems involved in the mere establishment of israel particularly given the expulsion that accompanied Israel’s birth and the “existential necessity” involved in keeping out the heirs of those expelled.

    Nonetheless it is the occupation of the west bank specifically, with a settlement occupation complicating the military occupation, that is the wedge issue between the young of ifnotnow and mainstream older jews.

    • Mooser
      March 29, 2017, 4:06 pm

      Some day, you Zionists will recognize what is really destroying the support of Zionism in the US.
      You need to be well-armed to win a battle of wills!

      • Maghlawatan
        March 31, 2017, 2:47 pm

        Great point, Mooser

      • Mooser
        March 31, 2017, 4:44 pm

        “Great point, Mooser”

        It may have been one of the greatest aids to a reconsideration of Zionism among American Jews.

    • Mooser
      March 29, 2017, 4:09 pm

      “Nonetheless it is the occupation of the west bank specifically, with a settlement occupation complicating the military occupation, “

      What the f**k is that supposed to mean, “Yonah”? You are always trying to drop a poison pilpul into the discussion.

      If it is a “military occupation” there shouldn’t be any settlers. The military can easily remove them. What Israeli Jew wouldn’t obey, with alacrity, celerity even, a request or order from the IDF?

      And hey, if the settlers aren’t there, why does the military need to occupy ? C’mon “Yonah” cut the crap.

      • yonah fredman
        March 29, 2017, 7:10 pm

        Israel militarily occupied southern lebanon from 1982 til 2000. There were never civilians from israel moved into southern lebanon. A military occupation of the west bank is justifiable on security grounds, control of the mountain Ridge overlooking the heavily populated coastal region. (A settler occupation has no such rationale. ) As a matter of law, ( from a nonlawyer’s point of view), the military occupation of the west bank was accepted by un resolution 242, since it clearly indicated the need for two requirements: 1. Withdrawal of the israeli army and 2. Recognition between all belligerent states. ( the implication of the need for negotiation was clear to those who composed the resolution . And until such negotiations, the presence of israeli forces in the west bank was implicitly accepted and never once condemned by the unsc. ) the movement of israeli civilians on that territory was continually condemned by the unsc.

      • talknic
        March 29, 2017, 10:13 pm

        @ yonah fredman March 29, 2017, 7:10 pm

        “A military occupation of the west bank is justifiable on security grounds, control of the mountain Ridge overlooking the heavily populated coastal region”

        You’re tawkin’ wholly holey Hasbara.

        No state has any more right to security than another state, especially thru invasion AND occupation AND settlement or acquisition of territories by any coercive measure, including war. All states, even a Jewish State, does not have the right to invade and claim other folks territories for their own security.

        “… the military occupation of the west bank was accepted by un resolution 242,”

        More bullsh*t.
        A) UNSC resolution 242 was on “Peace in the Middle East” between warring UN member States. Palestine had no UN status at the time

        B) UNSC Res 242’s result can be seen in the Egypt Israeli Peace Treaty. Israel undertaking to withdraw from all Egyptian territories was THE essential condition for peace between those two states.

        UNSC resolutions on the “Question of Palestine” http://www.un.org/en/sc/documents/resolutions/2016.shtml
        tell us in no uncertain terms what is required of Israel in respect to Palestine. UNSC res2334 is just one of some 11 reminders of Israel’s legal obligations. E.g;

        Resolution 476 (1980) Adopted by the Security Council at its 2242nd meeting on 30 June 1980


        1. Reaffirms the overriding necessity to end the prolonged occupation of Arab territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem

        “the need for negotiation was clear to those who composed the resolution .”

        Indeed it was. The negotiation is clear by the result of the Egypt/Israeli Peace Treaty, which cites UNSC res 242. Negotiations were when and how Israel would withdraw from Egyptian territories to Egypt’s “recognized” borders in order for peace to be assumed

        The Palestinians are under no obligation what so ever to negotiate away any of their legal rights to any state, not even a Jewish state.

        ” And until such negotiations, the presence of israeli forces in the west bank was implicitly accepted and never once condemned by the unsc.

        MORE BULSH*T!!!

        UNSC res 2334 doesn’t contain the word negotiate. Read it.and then at least attempt to stop trying to justify the unjustifiable.

        Israel is in breach of its legal obligations, has been since 00:01 May 15th 1948

      • Sibiriak
        March 30, 2017, 6:50 am

        Res. 2334 affirms the illegality of the settlements in Occupied Palestinian Territory and calls for negotiations to end the Occupation.

        1. Reaffirms that the establishment by Israel of settlements in the Palestinian territory occupied since 1967, including East Jerusalem, has no legal validity and constitutes a flagrant violation under international law and a major obstacle to the achievement of the two -State solution and a just, lasting and comprehensive peace.

        * * * * *

        8. Calls upon all parties to continue, in the interest of the promotion of peace and security, to exert collective efforts to launch credible negotiations on all final status issues in the Middle East peace process and within the time frame specified by the Quartet in its statement of 21 September 2010;

        9. Urges in this regard the intensification and acceleration of international and regional diplomatic efforts and support aimed at achieving, without delay a comprehensive, just and lasting peace in the Middle East on the basis of the relevant United Nations resolutions, the Madrid terms of reference, including the principle of land for peace, the Arab Peace Initiative and the Quartet Roadmap and an end to the Israeli occupation that began in 1967; and underscores in this regard the importance of the ongoing efforts to advance the Arab Peace Initiative, the initiative of France for the convening of an international peace conference, the recent efforts of the Quartet, as well as the efforts of Egypt and the Russian Federation;

        10. Confirms its determination to support the parties throughout the negotiations and in the implementation of an agreement;

        [emphasis added]

        Of course, Israel has shown no interest in negotiating in good faith.

      • YoniFalic
        March 30, 2017, 10:34 pm

        Both the Syrian & Lebanese governments agree that Israel continues to occupy Shebaa Farms, which is in Lebanon.

        Since the earliest days of the white racist genocidal European settler colonist invasion of the Levant, the white racist Euro Zio invaders have wanted to set the northern border of the territory they wanted to steal at the Litani River. Without UNSC Resolution 425 it is probable that the white racist genocidal invaders would have extended their colonization into Lebanon.

        The origin WZO plan of a century ago included among the territories to be stolen by white European invaders:

        1) all of historic Palestine (Palestina Prima, Secunda, & Tertia)

        2) South Lebanon to Sidon and the Litani River;

        3) Syria’s Golan Heights, Hauran Plain and Deraa; and

        4) control of Hijaz Railway from Deraa to Amman, Jordan along with the Gulf of Aqaba.

        Some Zios (like Jabotinsky and his followers) also wanted inclusion of the Roman/Byzantine Province of Arabia, which did not correspond to today’s Saudi Arabia.

    • eljay
      March 29, 2017, 6:13 pm

      || yonah fredman: There are basic problems involved in the mere establishment of israel particularly given the expulsion that accompanied Israel’s birth and the “existential necessity” involved in keeping out the heirs of those expelled. … ||

      That sounds so much more poetic than terrorism, ethnic cleansing and permanent refugee status in the name of religion-based supremacism.

    • talknic
      March 29, 2017, 11:16 pm

      @ yonah fredman March 29, 2017, 4:00 pm

      ” the “existential necessity” involved in keeping out the heirs of those expelled”

      Jewish folk were expelled or fled in the Roman era. Can you see an equal existential necessity of keeping their alleged heirs out of Palestine?

      BTW the demographic existential threat to Israel is a propaganda nonsense.

      Simple maths and Israeli statistics tell us that Israel long ago passed the point where Jews would be a minority even if ALL the rightful refugees and their heirs returned to Israel of 00:01 May 15th 1948

      The existential demographic threat to Israel is only in NON-Israeli territories illegally acquired by war, I.e., in what remained of Palestine after Israel proclaimed its borders effective in order to be recognized

      Furthermor. Israel in its Declaration of statehood welcomed non-Jews to remain in Israel. Why if they were going to be a demographic threat?

      Were the signatories stupid or liars? Are we really expected to believe they didn’t know about the ethnic cleansing going on under Plan Dalet?

    • Maghlawatan
      March 30, 2017, 3:32 am

      The Zionist resort to force secured the country but at the cost of storing up problems for the future. The #1 problem is the Palestinians and how Israel deals with them.
      This is still in crisis mode 69 years later.

      Until this is solved Israel is going nowhere.
      Regarding the generational issue issue, Israel needs unquestioned support from the diaspora and it can’t guarantee it any longer.

      Zionism proved that Jews can be cruel and brutal . The Torah warns about the implications of a violent approach. The social costs in Israel are astronomical.

      As Nehru observed : “The purely agitational attitude is not good enough for a detailed consideration of a subject”

      But nobody wants to address the system.

    • Misterioso
      March 30, 2017, 11:41 am

      For the record:

      After being denied admittance twice, Israel again sought UN membership in 1949. This time, however, in order to be considered, Israel formally agreed at the United Nations to obey the UN Charter (prohibition of the acquisition of territory by war), comply with General Assembly Resolution 194 regarding the repatriation and/or financial compensation for the then about 800,000 Palestinian refugees, which is based on the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, binding on all UN members. Israel also signed the Lausanne Protocol at the 1949 Lausanne Peace Conference and thereby reaffirmed its commitment to Resolution 194.

      (Israel also agreed to accept Res. 181 as a basis for negotiations, but it is no longer applicable given the PLO’s acceptance of Res. UNSC 242, i.e. a Palestinian state comprised of a mere 22% of their homeland.)

      Israel’s pledge to abide by the terms of Resolution 194 and the UN Charter was made legally binding by including it in General Assembly Resolution 273 (11 May 1949) granting it UN membership.

      Israel is the only state admitted to the UN on the condition that specific resolutions would be obeyed. Needless to say, Israel has refused to comply with its commitments to do so. Its UN membership should have been suspended decades ago, but thanks to US support, it has not.

  5. rensanceman
    March 29, 2017, 4:32 pm

    Israel’s founding mythology narrative-that its Arab neighbors ganged up on them and would not allow it to establish a state of their own, omits the historical fact of the Nakba and the refusal to allow descendants of those ethnically cleansed to return. This is the Original Sin of Israel and must be acknowledged by Zionist before they begin a teach-in of the younger generation who are being enlightened rapidly on college campuses and elsewhere. The lid on the Truth is still there by our compliant Media but alternative info sources abound. If the goal of Zionism in principle and in its interpretation by its early leaders is explained properly, that all of Palestine belongs to the Jewish people and all others are not welcome. Moreover the recreation of biblical Israel ( eretz Israel) includes parts of Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan. As long as our ruling elite maintain their fervent committee to this raging monster, it might actually be achieved,

    • RoHa
      March 29, 2017, 10:25 pm

      And omits the moral fact that the Zionists not only did not have a right to establish “a state of their own”, but that the establishment of such a state was wrong.

  6. The JillyBeans
    March 29, 2017, 4:44 pm

    I literally could not stop laughing whilst reading this bit:

    “I think Zionist education is critical here…. My wife is here so I’m going to get in trouble for what I’m going to say. But when I tell my children the story of our courtship, I begin– at a certain age I layer in one set of the story; at another age, I layer in another part of the story, when they’re ready, right? But first, I make sure they know that Mommy and Daddy love each other very, very much…

    I mean, I’m an educator. I think there needs to be a full-court press from organizations like Hadassah and otherwise that at every level, Hebrew school kids, day school kids, and otherwise, the questions that my daughter was asking me– they need to have working answers all the way up through, until they are on their way to the college, and prepared with the narrative and the right of Jewish self-determination in their own land.

    I think we’re woefully underpreparing American kids for that right now.”

    Education, indoctrination. Tomato, tohmahto.

    I’m guessing “naqba” will never be uttered in any of this education he is proposing.

    • Mooser
      March 29, 2017, 5:53 pm

      “and prepared with the narrative and the right of Jewish self-determination in their own land.”

      Those students must be prepared to educate their teachers.
      For that they go to college!

  7. talknic
    March 29, 2017, 6:17 pm

    “How do I explain to my daughter ..”

    Keep lying. That’s how you learned

    • Mooser
      March 29, 2017, 7:25 pm

      “Keep lying. That’s how you learned”

      This is when I ask myself: ‘Where are the magic, wonder-working, Chef Rabbi’s of yore?’

  8. ymedad
    March 30, 2017, 8:19 am

    Stupid is as stupid does.
    “Rabbi Elliot Cosgrove of Park Avenue Synagogue says that speaker after speaker at AIPAC said that Israel is not an apartheid state, but his own daughter squirmed and pointed out, If Palestinians can’t vote, doesn’t that make it an apartheid state?”
    Huh?

    They can vote. For Palestinian elections. But Abbas won’t hold them. Undemocratic Palestinian Authority, not apartheid Israel

    • echinococcus
      March 30, 2017, 9:14 am

      Stupid? Hard to think of anything more stupid than what you just wrote.

      Half of the people under the authority of the interloper state calling itself “Israel” cannot vote at national elections. Among those who can vote, the overwhelming majority are illegal intruders with no right to be there. A lot of them horrible Americans like yourself.

    • Misterioso
      March 30, 2017, 3:22 pm

      Palestinian citizens of Israel, i.e. west of the green line, may have the vote, but it is virtually ineffective given the fact they are forced to live under the boot of Israel’s apartheid regime and are mistreated and mocked by other members of the Knesset.

      Ronnie Kasrils, a key player in the struggle against the former South African apartheid regime, minister for intelligence and a devout Jew: “The Palestinian minority in Israel has for decades been denied basic equality in health, education, housing and land possession, solely because it is not Jewish. The fact that this minority is allowed to vote hardly redresses the rampant injustice in all other basic human rights. They are excluded from the very definition of the ‘Jewish state’, and have virtually no influence on the laws, or political, social and economic policies. Hence, their similarity to the black South Africans [under apartheid].”
      (The Guardian, 25 May 2005)

      “Former Foreign Ministry director-general invokes South Africa comparisons. ‘Joint Israel-West Bank’ reality is an apartheid state”
      EXCERPT: “Similarities between the ‘original apartheid’ as it was practiced in South Africa and the situation in ISRAEL [my emphasis] and the West Bank today ‘scream to the heavens,’ added [Alon] Liel, who was Israel’s ambassador in Pretoria from 1992 to 1994. There can be little doubt that the suffering of Palestinians is not less intense than that of blacks during apartheid-era South Africa, he asserted.” (Times of Israel, February 21, 2013)

      In its 2015 Country Report on Human Rights Practices for Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories, the U.S. Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor acknowledges the “institutional and societal discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel.” (U.S. Department of State, Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights and Labor Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2015 Israel and The Occupied Territories)

      Israeli TV Host Implores Israelis: Wake Up and Smell the Apartheid
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyyUvxHLYr4

      The effect of Israel’s blatantly racist “Citizenship Law” and more than fifty other restrictions (http://adalah.org/eng/Israeli-Discriminatory-Law-DatabaseIsrael's) Arab citizens have to endure is well expressed by writer and Knesset member, Ahmed Tibi, “…dutifully defining the state [of Israel] as ‘Jewish and democratic,’ ignores the fact that in practice ‘democratic’ refers to Jews, and the Arabs are nothing more than citizens without citizenship.” (Ma’ariv, 1.6.2005)

      • Misterioso
        March 30, 2017, 3:57 pm

        Correction:
        The first paragraph of my comment should have read as follows:

        Palestinian citizens of Israel, i.e. west of the green line, may have the vote, but it is virtually ineffective given the fact they are forced to live under the boot of Israel’s apartheid regime and their elected representatives are mistreated and mocked by other members of the Knesset.

    • YoniFalic
      March 30, 2017, 9:57 pm

      During the last decade of Apartheid, South Africa had a tricameral legislature that gave voting representation to SA whites, Coloreds, and Asians/Indians. (There were some complexities with respect to Chinese, Japanese, Arabs, Persians and those who practiced Islam.)

      Black South Africans (native Blacks) typically had voting rights in various Bantustans. That now defunct Apartheid political system and structure had obvious similarities with the contemporary Zionist system.

      I don’t see any way to make a reasonable legal argument that white racist genocidal European settler colonist invaders in the Levant aren’t committing the crime of Apartheid in international law.

    • Maghlawatan
      March 31, 2017, 5:31 am

      Says a Jewish settler.

      FFS.
      YMedad said…
      The Diaspora lost itself when it refused to come on Aliyah, when the Reform movement deleted Zion, when Jews adopted communism, socialism and now, liberal progressivism. How much does an Arab pay? nada. It was conquered and occupied and the Jewish population radically and ehtnically cleansed over the centuries. But we came back. Why soldiers? because too many Arabs kill, rape, murder, pillage, burn, stab, etc. Local language is Hebrew.

      YMedad said…

      You have anti-Zionism.

      We do give human rights but not political rights to people who do not deserve them. The Arabs of Israel vote, get elected, some serve in the Army, there is no separate toilets or drinking fountains.

      In Ian Lustick’s “For the Land and the Land”:-
      Yisrael Medad, a religious activist within Tehiya and a leader of two groups with activities related to the Temple Mount, published an article in Nekuda prior to the Yamit evacuation, arguing that the evacuation could and would be halted only if a Jewish takeover of the Temple Mount was effected immediately. See Yisrael Medad, “The Temple Mount Is in Our Hands-The Time Has Come,” Nekuda, no.39, February’ 5, 1982, pp.4-5.

      • Mooser
        March 31, 2017, 4:53 pm

        “The Temple Mount Is in Our Hands-The Time Has Come,” Nekuda, no.39, February’ 5, 1982, pp.4-5.”

        1982, huh? 35 years ago. I think that one is past the sell-by date.

  9. Ossinev
    March 30, 2017, 11:27 am

    @ymedad
    “Stupid is as stupid does”
    And says. Come on then you me and your dad. You say you are an Israeli “activist” living in Shiloh. But where oh where do you/your family actually originate. Did you do the heart rendering Aliyah shuffle to get back to your “sob” God given heartbrakingly stolen by the nasty Romans homeland.Also when and where did your ancestors convert to Judaism. No I`m waiting for it you have got documentary evidence that you are descended in a direct (and probably) matriarchal line from Moses part time Jewish therapist.

    You Zios are truly overflowing with it.

  10. broadside
    March 30, 2017, 11:53 am

    Cosgrove: “So I see these questions percolating in my own family, in my own community… ”

    The one in the basement?

  11. iResistDe4iAm
    March 31, 2017, 10:50 am

    “So where do we go from here? That’s what I’m trying to figure out.”

    You should never have gone there …but now that you’re there, you must choose.

    Please select your guiding principles:
    (a) universal morality
    (b) selective morality for Jews only (aka Zionism)

    I know, it’s not that simple. In fact, there is far more nuance and far more complexity to the conflict than that …it’s so hurtful, it’s so painful, it’s just so complicated.

    Therefore, please select the excuse/s that best assuage your conscience:
    (a) “I didn’t know” (feigning ignorance to invoke plausible deniability)
    (b) “I don’t remember” (feigning short memory disorder or spontaneous dementia)
    (c) “I was profoundly misled” (pretending to be a victim of censorship and/or propaganda)
    (d) “I was only following orders” (pleading Nuremberg defense/collateral victimhood)

    • Mooser
      March 31, 2017, 1:57 pm

      “Please select your guiding principles: (a) universal morality (b) selective morality for Jews only (aka Zionism)”

      Reduce the power of Zionism and Israel, and the morality will get better.

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